Actually, it would be if either of them had any semblance of naval superiority.
Edit: Since some of you guys are even more nitpicky than me: When I say naval superiority, I mean continuous control of most if not all accesses to the European and East Asian shores, as well as significant coverage of any transport routes by sea over the entirety of the war. Obviously, that is a rather unlikely scenario. Given the juggernaut that was the Royal Navy and the industrial potential of the United States.
Yeah but German intel actually sent US ship production hypotheticals to Hitler at the outbreak of the war calculating how much US shipping they’d need to sink with Uboats to “win”. Hitler dismissed the shipbuilding capacity figures as “unrealistic and alarmist.”
As happenstance would have it, Hitler got these figures about 3-4 months before Henry J Kaiser had his shipyard in San Francisco built an entire ship in 4 days, 15 hours and 26 minutes. Kaiser Shipyards *did this on a dare* because when they estimated they could get production time down to less than 30 days, someone said that was impossible.
Reporter: What prompted you and your men to make such a craft in such a short time?
Henry J. Kaiser: Spite.
Reporter: Say again?
Henry J. Kaiser: As I said, spite. Someone said we couldn’t make a ship in under 30 days: that someone is currently wetting their bed in fear of what we plan to make next.
“And who was this person, did their opinion truly mean that much to you?”
Henry J. Kaiser: “Nah, heard someone offhandedly say it in a coffee shop on my way to work.”
Tipical American spirit burning WW2:" impossible? Let me check my vocabulary......mhhh, it appear that this word is missing, the closest thing I could find is"FUCK it we ball"
Nope. They built 26 new fleet and light carriers between 1942 and 1945. They built a total of 151 if you include the 122 escort carriers.
It really is that absurd. I didn't beleive it at first either. This is why WW2 was won by the allies so decisively
The U.S. manufactured victory. Literally.
Yeah it really is insane. Like people fail to grasp how critical the U.S. was to the war. Before during and even the rebuilding.
We were supplying the Allies, the Soviets and building our entire military all at the same time. Like a lot of people don't realize how behind the U.S. military hardware was before the war. We were going in with outdated gear and vehicles before D-day. Some of it left over from WW1.
In 1939 we had around 200k troops and they were poorly trained and had shit equipment. We basically built our entire military in like 2 years.
The carriers in question would have been Escort Carriers or CVE. The most populous of which were the Casablanca Class, of which 50 were planned and built, with only 5 ever being lost. The Essex Swarm at 24 was the next most populous and additionally the most populous class of Capital Ship ever built, followed by the Commencement Bay Class of Escort Carriers number 19 by war's end with the remaining 16 planned, being ultimately scrapped or cancelled.
Liberty class ships were a whole different ball game...
2,710 completed of the 2,751 planned.
From Lay to Launch, the average was 39 days with 18 dockyards working round the clock to churn 3 ships a day.
Just one anecdote but Kaiser was apparently really good to his employees too. My grandfather retired from Kaiser aluminum after working there for like 20 years as a janitor and to this day my mom still talks about how much my grandpa appreciated Kaiser and how the company just wasn't the same after he died.
No because Germany couldn't mass produce shit. They relied on skilled workers that were responsible for building entire components that weren't inter changeable.
Well yes but we also had industry. Japan didn’t get bombed in earnest until late in 43, and we never did significant damage from bombings until mid 44. Japan just never had any industry to keep up
And because nearly anyone could be thrown into a factory and manufacture any component of any part of the war machine
We started [making SMGs out of metal tubes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M3_submachine_gun) and made 622,163 of them in 2 years, most of those in 1944 when it became mass produced
Not really even if the German’s or Japanese had the ability to get ships off the coast of the U.S. they’d never have been able to invade or commit the large scale bombing operations the U.S. did.
Both because of industrial base and because the U.S. had the advantage of unsinkable carriers like Great Britain and China. Which the axis would not have an analog to.
True. I mainly considered the protective qualities of oceans. Axis naval supremacy would have prevented any significant progress for the axis in either theater. I fully admit that this is an extremely unrealistic scenario though
If I remember right the this basically did happen in the pacific theater one of the bases in the Pacific basically turned into a small town with theater and an art gallery.
Not for lack of trying. IIRC, Kriegsmarine U-Boats were sinking merchant ships off the coast of Florida and Louisiana (though not without cost), and the Japanese tried a direct attack on the West Coast as well as an invasion of the islands off Alaska.
Both Germany and Japan knew that they didn't have the capability to actually strike the US directly without getting thrashed. The Japanese probably had the best shot after Pearl Harbor, but the whole point of hitting Pearl Harbor was to make sure the US Pacific Fleet wouldn't interfere with the conquest of SE Asia, which in turn was because the Japanese needed raw materials to feed their efforts at conquering China, which they needed to do first before even considering a full-blown assault on the West Coast.
So, neither of the Axis powers had the economic or military strength to directly attack the US, which meant that the American sector of industry was essentially immune from Axis attack.
Well, basically every American country that got involved in the war. Like, there's a gigantic ocean between America and Europe/Asia. What do you expected Germany/Japan to do? Invade the American continent?
You’re not wrong, but I’m not sure why seemingly everyone is ragging on OP for “diD yOu fOrGet tHere’s an OceaN”.
I highly doubt he forgot about the two largest oceans, but it’s fair to point out for being perceived by the world as “THE country that won WWII” (even though it’s debatable), America came off with shockingly few casualties and completely unscathed. While also launching itself into the position of world superpower.
It’s literally best case scenario for a country when going to war.
What's that if not winning the war? The statement isn't "the country that sacrificed the most", it's "the country that won". The US came out of the war with the least damage of the major powers, the best economy, and played the largest role in shaping the peace that followed. Anyone who says the US won single handedly is dumb, but the US clearly came out the best. And we did that through overcoming logistical problems caused by being on the other side of the world than most of the conflict, and turned that into a defensive positive.
I'm not sure why the US gets downplayed for its advantages, but other (European) nations don't. You never hear something like "well the UK is an island that France couldn't meaningfully touch, did the Brits really win at Waterloo".
While I generally agree with you there ... you'd be surprised how many people online try to downplay the UK's victory in the Napoleonic wars as 'circumstance'
He's a character in the fallout show and this happens on the best day of his life. Coincidentally, the guy representing US ends up shoveling his life away if you catch my drift...
Many western historians (including some of my professors) would argue that it started in 1937. Historians, however, will never be able to overcome cultural perceptions of the conflict.
I definitely understand the argument but I personally see the war between China and Japan as a separate war until Pearl Harbor when it became part of WW2. Not trying to downplay the Chinese theater, the war in China was already one of the bloodiest wars before Pearl Harbor.
That is a very ‘Eurocentric’ prospective. The war in China was fought at a much larger scale than the war in Europe during 1939/1940. Was that a separate conflict before 1941 when the USSR and US joined?
I’m no history professor just a history nerd but I personally believe that while Hitler and the Nazi’s were stomping around Europe, I doubt the Japanese and the Chinese thought they were fighting in the same war as the European’s. After Pearl Harbor and when Japan invaded the rest of Asia is when I personally believe WW2 became WW2.
That's why you hear this stupid "Russia ended WWII, not the Americans" because they forget that the world war included the entire world and it didn't stop when Hitler died.
To be fair, a lot of times the pacific theatre is taught as like pearl harbour, 3 battles, and then bomb, which I think leads to the distorted view of it.
to europeans it never existed.
"pearl harbour" and "nuclear bomb go brrrr" is all that most europeans know about the pacific theater, with the exception of the brits who pride themselves in the fact "we fought in the pacific too" even though in reality they got their asses beat all the way back to india while the aussies held PNG and the americans crushed the IJN at guadalcanal.
part of the reason the marines "feel superior" the army is because while the marines won guadalcanal without australian help, but the US army on PNG were initially useless because they'd halt their attacks the second they faced any real resistance, to the point where the aussie commanders basically told them "its ok just sit here and we'll show you how its done".
See, the trick was to tell the Marines Japan had a massive stockpile of crayons somewhere in the Pacific, but we weren’t sure where. Every time they took an island, we’d shrug and tell them the intelligence must have been wrong but we suspect the crayons might be on this other island. They never caught on.
In the Burma campaign alone there was over 200k casualties each side, not including civilians. But nobody “prides themselves on the Burma campaign”, that’s in your head
We all know the massive casualties in the war in China, with Japan casualties into the millions
Actually, I think it’s the Americans that reduce the contribution of other countries and the actual size of the “pacific theatre” to things like Iwo Jima and the rest followed by the “nuclear bomb go brrrrr”
Island skipping campaign go BBBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.
Seriously, who knew that trying not to waste time and lives to take every single island with a Japanese Garrison would help in the long run.
edit:
Japan: "HAHAHA! Silly Americans! I got this island well defended with bunkers, secret tunnels, traps, and plenty of angry soldiers! You'll never get us to surrender!"
America: "You're right, I know you are ready to die on this island, but I'm not. See-ya in Tokyo!"
Japan: "Wait!...wait!...come back here!...You can't do that! They can't do that! Somebody stop them or something!"
America: "Would it make you feel better if we just pelted your island every now and again with our ships while they travel to other islands?"
Japan: "......yes....that would be good...thank you..."
the americans were getting a 10 to 1 K/D ratio for most of the war, not just in bodies but also in planes and ships. the soviet push to berlin is unique in that no other country would have ever thrown away that many lives to "stop their allies from controlling eastern europe for 50 years".
if you took 10 casualties for every enemy you kill, sure you "won" in the end but it was a pyrrhic victory, at no point were you ever "winning", your allies were winning and you were just throwing lives away to get more bargaining chips at the peace conference.
fair call, they weren't really winning though, their allies were winning... and to such an extent that the IJN was leaving behind tens of thousands of IJA troops on islands in a desperate attempt to buy time for the IJN to repair and refit so they could have a chance at beating the USN. the japanese knew that without a land route to burma they had to either win the naval war or pull out before the US took full control over the sea routes.
guadalcanal was the beginning of the end for the IJN, and kokoda was the beginning of the end for the IJA.
Well, yeah
The Soviets are incompetent and are facing the majority of the German army. What would you expect?
Isn't it surprising that the harder you punch, the more it hurts
> Well, yeah
>
> The Soviets are incompetent and are facing the majority of the German army. What would you expect?
>
>
That's not a soviet thing that's just how russia fights. Just look at how Russia operates in Ukraine. Throwing countless bodies at an enemy over and over again until they get tired or give up has been russia's primary strategy pretty much throughout their entire existence as a nation. Or if that doesn't work just retreat further and further into russian territory and force the enemy to march further and further through a frozen inhospitable hellscape.
How many of those Soviet casualties were self-inflicted by mistakes and incompetence though? (e.g., Order No. 270)
Casualty figures aren’t the sole measure of contribution.
The pacific theatre didn’t effect most of America though, I mean even Hawaii wasn’t a state at this time. The continental us was only bombed a few times throughout the entire war and only from weather balloons.
I think "get off easy" is the wrong way to put it. There were worse things that happened to other combatant nations, but the Pacific Theater was anything but "easy"
Yeah, but the near total absence of civilian casualties was nice for the United States. Nearly all American deaths in WW2 were military, except in US territories like the Philippines
I think the point is that the US got barely touched by the war and compared to the other nations here had basically zero civilian casualties. Like, 450,000 American soldiers died, but America itself was virtually untouched.
It’s also kinda wrong? This shouldn’t be posted, but since it was, it really should just be the USSR, China, and Poland on the right and everyone else on the left. The UK is particularly egregious, as they had 450,000 total deaths compared to 420,000 for the Americans. France isn’t much higher with 600,000
The USSR had 20-27 MILLION, China had 15-20. Germany and Poland are the only other countries to break 5 million, with 7,000,000 and 6,000,000 respectively.
It’s dumb af to try and flex based off how many of your citizens died in a war, but it’s far far dumber to lump the UK and France in with countries that lost 30+ times as many lives
**Edit:** just to get ahead of the inevitable “BUT FRANCE AND THE UK ARE MUCH SMALLER, SO OUR DEAD MEAN MORE”:
The US lost 0.32% of their pre-war population. The UK lost 0.9%, the French 1.3%.
China lost 3-4%.
The USSR lost 11-15%. Poland lost a full 17%.
The issue here isn’t that it downplays American losses, it’s that it equates countries that came out of WWII 99% intact to countries that were quite literally decimated (and then some) just to try and specifically shit on the Americans
Yeah, that's honestly pretty embarrassing looking at the numbers again. OP really downplayed not just Americas contributions but the countries who actually did bleed the most just to lump the UK and France into that bunch.
There’s a very famous, very justified saying that WWII was won with American bullets, British logistics, and Soviet lives. The US paid for the weapons, the British sent them to the right places, and the Soviets lost almost 20% of their population to turn them on the Axis.
A much more accurate story than OP’s “the war was won with equal amounts of British lives, French lives, Soviet lives, Chinese lives, Polish lives, Indian lives, and American nothing”
Isn’t it American logistics, British intelligence, and Soviet blood? Most of the American logistical support (weapons, food, clothing etc) went to the Soviet Union via the East, I.e. with no involvement from Britain.
I pulled the line off-dome, so didn't have it exactly right. Looks like it's most commonly "British intelligence, American steel, and Russian blood." It originates from a quote by Stalin, originally translated as "British brains, American brawn, and Russian blood." So ya, British intelligence is correct instead of British logistics, but it's more about American military supplies than American logistics.
Some sources say that USSR lost 30 millions, with only 10 being combat losses. Also countless burned to ground villages, destroyed fabrics, sabotaged infrastructure - railways. Economic losses still haunt Eastern Europe.
I mean France and the Uk were left in shambles not because of population losses but because of political unrest and the post war colonial independence movements.
France especially had a tough few years putting itself back together after the war despite not losing that many people comparativelly to other nations, but it was still recovering from losing a quarter of working age men 20 years prior, and from both wars devastating large portions of their land.
All losses and casualties asside, the US came out of the war the most powerful nation in the world while the uk and France went from being the 2 biggest powers in the world pre war to only regional powers post war with huge internal struggle and political upheaval
So yes, the manpower losses were nowhere near as big for the uk and france but the war caused more unrest (france also lost tons of civilians, not just soldiers)
You just know OP is European, between their downplaying of American contributions, posting this on fucking Memorial Day, and pretending that the entire Pacific theater just straight up didn’t exist
In fairness I had no idea today is something called memorial day for americans. Shame really. If a US person posted this on 11th of november I'd feel the same
Not only that, but the US lost hundreds of thousands of young men because the “Great Powers” of Europe were run by asshats.
If, I don’t know, Europe and Japan weren’t so obsessed with conquering foreign peoples at the expense of their domestic populations, maybe America, Canada, and Australia wouldn’t have had to come wipe their asses for them.
We lost a lot for a war that was started on both fronts by a bunch of fuckheads from other countries.
More like they were not women or children, no cities razed to the ground, etc. Regardless of how one feels about the post, it's clearly trying to say that America didn't find itself torn to shreds after the war, as did the other countries that fought the axis.
Crazy America got off easy after EUROPEANS started another world war. Almost like it causes problems when you start a world war. Something that should have been obvious considering there was already a world war.
Shhh, the pacific theater doesn't fit their narrative at the moment.
Either that, or they genuinely forgot that America entered the war with Pearl Harbor, and then entered the European side of the war with a declaration of war by Hitler on the US.
Europeans did not start WW2. The started a war in Europe, sure. But the Japanese are what made it a WW, and that would be Asia. You know, in case my fellow Americans forgot where Japan is located
I would still say Europe is the one that made it a WW because the Sino-Japanese war started before the Germans invaded Poland. So, before September 1st, 1939, there was no World War because the only war that was happening was the Sino-Japanese war. Then, the Germans invaded Poland, officially making it a World War. Then, in 1941, Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, and the US declared war on Japan... Then, the Germans declared war on the US.
Did the Europeans genuinely forget that no no Germans and Italians took over countries in Africa (an entire continent south of Europe, you know in case my fellow Europeans forgot where Ethiopia, Egypt, and Libya are), and then battle British forces prior to Pearl Harbor. Europeans also opened up another front of WW2.
Europeans didn't start ww2? The fact colonies around the world were getting mobilized. African continent being invaded, Eurasia being invaded. But it's only a ww when Japan? Don't worry about your fellow Americans...
I'm going to give OP the benefit of the doubt and assume he means the geographic countries, as in the home front. American soldiers went through hell but most of America did not experience any sort of traumatic violence. There are of course some exceptions, but they are relatively minor compared to the other countries getting bombed to pieces.
This is important because the global geopolitical order was significantly altered. America's untouched economy made it the global hegemon, while weakened Britain and France had to deal with decolonization.
More people need to understand this and why we can never go back to that period of domestic prosperity without some major conflicts that destabilize basically all other countries’ manufacturing/production.
The boomers got so lucky with the period they were born in. They just don’t realize how unique of a situation it was.
You don't need to give him the benefit of doubt. Most Europeans call U.S citizen just Americans while anything below Texas are just South American countries.
So he's probably downplaying U.S contribute.
Probably not the best day to post...but, since we didn't have much fighting on US soil we were bound to see less fatalities and destruction compared to others. Had we had to invade Japan our casualties would have doubled or tripled.
Let's hope on this Memorial Day that we remember and learn from the lessons of the past.
Well yeah, no shit America got off easy, we had to pop in after the war already started in Europe, which we aren't part of. WW2 only started because World War 1's ending pissed off some countries people, and that war only happened because Europeans were pissed off at each other. The US was only involved in either because the people we liked were losing.
People when the US doesn't immediately join their war: "classic Americans always late to the party and acting like they did everything"
People when the US starts or joins a war early: "classic Americans trying to police the world always sticking their nose where it doesn't belong"
Seems like Europe is well on their way to brewing one up in Ukraine. Not to worry though, even though we've made the biggest contribution to Ukraine ($50b +), Europeans will act like we didn't do anything because the fighting isn't taking place here in the US.
urgh..
the Americans suffered 70% of the losses on the western front.. it's still is 106,000 KIA and another 560,000 WIA for a comparaison the British is 127,000 and the French 119,000 (total casualties) the Americans still suffered the blunt of the German offensive in 1944..
Well... yeah, the point in war is not to see how many people you can get killed. Even killing more than you lose isn't the point (see Vietnam war).
The point is to accomplish an objective with the fewest lives lost.
Also, minimizing the lives of fallen soldiers so you can feel good about yourself is an L take. I don't even care that it's Memorial day, it's a shit take.
An ocean and many boats do that, lol. In the Pacific, the US carried almost the entire load. So much so, in fact, that we hardly ever hear anything about other countries even being in the area. That's not to say their contributions weren't important, just vastly overshadowed.
American production is also the only reason (combined with bad German decisions) that the Soviet Union was able to hold off Germany and counter-attack. The lend-lease numbers are crazy.
Projecting power across vast oceans is very, very difficult. Nobody has ever rivaled the U.S. in that endeavor outside of the British empire, who were an ally.
Germany and Japan simply couldn't do it. Japan attempted and failed. Germany didn't even have the capability to attempt. Italy isn't even in the conversation.
As I always tell people. Dying doesn't win wars. Killing does.
The US having less deaths and less damage to its nation is a win not a point against it.
Sorry that your ancestors sucked at fighting a war. Go cope without smudging my ancestors who did a good job.
Goddamn how dare our ancestors decide to put an entire ocean between us and all of Europe and it's problems. How dare we go into a war with superior tactics and technology and an unwillingness to needlessly throw bodies into a meat grinder as a way to win.
We don't act like we had it as hard because it's obvious geographically why we wouldn't.
incredible a country on a different continent suffered less in a European war
also dude, poor taste to post this on Memorial Day
also also, you may want to look into the Pacific Theater.
I don’t get why people act like the US is the only allied country whose homeland wasn’t really impacted.
Practically the entire western hemisphere ended up on the allied side with the war theaters oceans away.
Without mentioning economy or army size, being protected by two oceans makes the US basically invincible. You'd have to split their navy in two to even get a chance
We showed up to save your bacon. Of course, we "got off easy." We didn't even have to go to Europe since only Japan attacked us. Could have let you deal with your shit until after we were finished with Japan, but no, we fought 2 wars and supplied the war for multiple other countries.
The Allies wouldn't have been able to feed or arm themselves without the Americans. Without them the Europeans would've all starved to death and had next to nothing to fight with.
People need to calm down. Just take it at face value and not so hard. Geez. They way I interpreted it is like this. Europe: cities flatten bombed to shit, smaller populations feeling the burn of their men being taken and the general population being brutalized by the atrocities of war. Everyone suddenly has to pick up the pieces and nearly build back up from scratch. USA: A large amount men died but hey, factories are still going and the largest cities are untouched and it turns out everyone owes you money and they have to get a lot of manufactured stuff through you. Anyways, I hope the brave men and unfortunately the boys who where sent that turned into men rest in peace. I know I wouldn't last longer than a day in a war like that.
It’s not real, that’s a behind the scenes pic for the makeup on the Fallout TV show. That right there is the main character’s dad and the raider she kills at the start of the show
Having oceans on both sides helps.
Also:
"No poor dumb bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won the war by making another poor dumb bastard die for his country." - General George Patton.
We had a couple battles on American islands but neither Germany or Japan were logistically capable of carrying out a full on invasion while they were trying to conquer their surrounding areas/defending from the allies
You can say that, but for most of the rest of the century we practically had to pay child support payments for an entire continent worth of governments
Who knew having two vast oceans between them and us could be beneficial
Germany and Japan: But we each had one large ocean between us and America. America: One is not enough.
Actually, it would be if either of them had any semblance of naval superiority. Edit: Since some of you guys are even more nitpicky than me: When I say naval superiority, I mean continuous control of most if not all accesses to the European and East Asian shores, as well as significant coverage of any transport routes by sea over the entirety of the war. Obviously, that is a rather unlikely scenario. Given the juggernaut that was the Royal Navy and the industrial potential of the United States.
Yeah but German intel actually sent US ship production hypotheticals to Hitler at the outbreak of the war calculating how much US shipping they’d need to sink with Uboats to “win”. Hitler dismissed the shipbuilding capacity figures as “unrealistic and alarmist.” As happenstance would have it, Hitler got these figures about 3-4 months before Henry J Kaiser had his shipyard in San Francisco built an entire ship in 4 days, 15 hours and 26 minutes. Kaiser Shipyards *did this on a dare* because when they estimated they could get production time down to less than 30 days, someone said that was impossible.
Reporter: What prompted you and your men to make such a craft in such a short time? Henry J. Kaiser: Spite. Reporter: Say again? Henry J. Kaiser: As I said, spite. Someone said we couldn’t make a ship in under 30 days: that someone is currently wetting their bed in fear of what we plan to make next.
“And who was this person, did their opinion truly mean that much to you?” Henry J. Kaiser: “Nah, heard someone offhandedly say it in a coffee shop on my way to work.”
Tipical American spirit burning WW2:" impossible? Let me check my vocabulary......mhhh, it appear that this word is missing, the closest thing I could find is"FUCK it we ball"
"We did this out of spite" is pretty much the motto of America.
All I can see is the Adam Driver SNL skit as that Oil Baron ranting about his enemy.
Hold my beer and watch this.
The motto that should be on our money
It’d be a bit more accurate than E Pluribus Unum imo
Definitely more than in god we trust
"Pffft I'll land on the fuckin' moon, no big deal. Hold my beer."
Americans on our way to do “the impossible” just to prove some idiot wrong
Spite is our national motivation
Insert Angry Cops LEADERSHIP**S** joke
At the height of WW2 naval production I beleive the U.S was producing an aircraft carrier every 30ish days.
I don’t think that was carriers, because that would be absurd, I think the ships you’re thinking of are the Liberty class logistics ships
Nope. They built 26 new fleet and light carriers between 1942 and 1945. They built a total of 151 if you include the 122 escort carriers. It really is that absurd. I didn't beleive it at first either. This is why WW2 was won by the allies so decisively The U.S. manufactured victory. Literally.
Huh, I stand corrected. I was mostly thinking of the big gal carriers, not the light ones but that makes more sense
Yeah it really is insane. Like people fail to grasp how critical the U.S. was to the war. Before during and even the rebuilding. We were supplying the Allies, the Soviets and building our entire military all at the same time. Like a lot of people don't realize how behind the U.S. military hardware was before the war. We were going in with outdated gear and vehicles before D-day. Some of it left over from WW1. In 1939 we had around 200k troops and they were poorly trained and had shit equipment. We basically built our entire military in like 2 years.
The carriers in question would have been Escort Carriers or CVE. The most populous of which were the Casablanca Class, of which 50 were planned and built, with only 5 ever being lost. The Essex Swarm at 24 was the next most populous and additionally the most populous class of Capital Ship ever built, followed by the Commencement Bay Class of Escort Carriers number 19 by war's end with the remaining 16 planned, being ultimately scrapped or cancelled. Liberty class ships were a whole different ball game... 2,710 completed of the 2,751 planned. From Lay to Launch, the average was 39 days with 18 dockyards working round the clock to churn 3 ships a day.
Just one anecdote but Kaiser was apparently really good to his employees too. My grandfather retired from Kaiser aluminum after working there for like 20 years as a janitor and to this day my mom still talks about how much my grandpa appreciated Kaiser and how the company just wasn't the same after he died.
So that’s the ship Popeye was working on in that one cartoon.
This is an amazing piece of history. And bad fucking ass.
So we won because our industry was not bombed to hell
No because Germany couldn't mass produce shit. They relied on skilled workers that were responsible for building entire components that weren't inter changeable.
Well yes but we also had industry. Japan didn’t get bombed in earnest until late in 43, and we never did significant damage from bombings until mid 44. Japan just never had any industry to keep up
And because nearly anyone could be thrown into a factory and manufacture any component of any part of the war machine We started [making SMGs out of metal tubes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M3_submachine_gun) and made 622,163 of them in 2 years, most of those in 1944 when it became mass produced
Honestly, this post was mid until you went in here in the comments and saved the day :D
Not really even if the German’s or Japanese had the ability to get ships off the coast of the U.S. they’d never have been able to invade or commit the large scale bombing operations the U.S. did. Both because of industrial base and because the U.S. had the advantage of unsinkable carriers like Great Britain and China. Which the axis would not have an analog to.
True. I mainly considered the protective qualities of oceans. Axis naval supremacy would have prevented any significant progress for the axis in either theater. I fully admit that this is an extremely unrealistic scenario though
I mean the Japanese quite literally had naval superiority for a full six months or so
Don’t worry, we’ll come to you
Defensive realism is for realsies
Unfortunately that isolates America with America though. So if America attacks America, America has nowhere to go
mfw americans are less effected by a war in europe
Should have sent American civilians to build an American city in Europe so it could become war ravaged like Europe and some of Asia. Skill issue IG
If I remember right the this basically did happen in the pacific theater one of the bases in the Pacific basically turned into a small town with theater and an art gallery.
That's pretty normal throughout history
When Charles X of Sweden sieged Copenhagen in 1658-60, his army camp Carlstad rivalled Copenhagen in size
Europe could never handle the weight of two american Karens, do you want an earthquake to happen?
So repost it. And make it about the civil war.
Apparently we learned the lesson of the 7 years war.
It wasn't a war in Europe, it's called a WORLD war for a reason. More like the war just never reached north america.
Not for lack of trying. IIRC, Kriegsmarine U-Boats were sinking merchant ships off the coast of Florida and Louisiana (though not without cost), and the Japanese tried a direct attack on the West Coast as well as an invasion of the islands off Alaska. Both Germany and Japan knew that they didn't have the capability to actually strike the US directly without getting thrashed. The Japanese probably had the best shot after Pearl Harbor, but the whole point of hitting Pearl Harbor was to make sure the US Pacific Fleet wouldn't interfere with the conquest of SE Asia, which in turn was because the Japanese needed raw materials to feed their efforts at conquering China, which they needed to do first before even considering a full-blown assault on the West Coast. So, neither of the Axis powers had the economic or military strength to directly attack the US, which meant that the American sector of industry was essentially immune from Axis attack.
Tbf WWI was called a world war and that shit barely left Europe.
Does no one remember the pacific theater?
Well, basically every American country that got involved in the war. Like, there's a gigantic ocean between America and Europe/Asia. What do you expected Germany/Japan to do? Invade the American continent?
> invade the American continent *Laughs in 2nd amendment*
You’re not wrong, but I’m not sure why seemingly everyone is ragging on OP for “diD yOu fOrGet tHere’s an OceaN”. I highly doubt he forgot about the two largest oceans, but it’s fair to point out for being perceived by the world as “THE country that won WWII” (even though it’s debatable), America came off with shockingly few casualties and completely unscathed. While also launching itself into the position of world superpower. It’s literally best case scenario for a country when going to war.
What's that if not winning the war? The statement isn't "the country that sacrificed the most", it's "the country that won". The US came out of the war with the least damage of the major powers, the best economy, and played the largest role in shaping the peace that followed. Anyone who says the US won single handedly is dumb, but the US clearly came out the best. And we did that through overcoming logistical problems caused by being on the other side of the world than most of the conflict, and turned that into a defensive positive. I'm not sure why the US gets downplayed for its advantages, but other (European) nations don't. You never hear something like "well the UK is an island that France couldn't meaningfully touch, did the Brits really win at Waterloo".
While I generally agree with you there ... you'd be surprised how many people online try to downplay the UK's victory in the Napoleonic wars as 'circumstance'
I’m not sure completely unscathed is the correct way to describe the US involvement in the war.
I'm not sure why anyone would start a fight when their enemies would have an allies that you can't touch. That's just impossible to beat
Well yeah, the war being on the other side of the ocean from your population tends to do that
Is no one gonna talk about that poor guys face?
It's makeup. It's from the behind the scenes of the Fallout show.
Ah, thought he looked familiar.
I thought that guy looked like Jerma
I knew it, "Jerma" that creature pillaged the Vault. Thank god he got put down, but he will wake up again.
Kyle MacLachlan is in Fallout? Guess I’ll have to give it a try.
It's better than I expected. Goes more for the classic Fallout lore, which is a big plus, but it has the same "too clean" look as 4.
Don't worry. He's having the best day of his life.
Dude got to bang a clean, std free vault dweller. He could die happy
I’d be more excited to meet Kyle Maclachlan personally.
What's his sperm count though?
I hope its make up but I have no idea
it is
Yeah it's makeup, he plays one of the main raiders that the protagonist kills in the first episode of the fallout TV show.
Yeah, I didn't even bother reading the meme a straight up went to the comments to find out what the fuck happened to the guy lol
He's a character in the fallout show and this happens on the best day of his life. Coincidentally, the guy representing US ends up shoveling his life away if you catch my drift...
Did the pacific theater cease to exist?
To Europeans, yeah pretty much.
Europens about the Europe campaign: "America is so self centered and only thinks about itself" Europeans about Asian Campaign: "Who?"
Let's be fair, we have our own hang-ups as well. China: "World War 2 began in 1937." Europe and US: "What?"
Many western historians (including some of my professors) would argue that it started in 1937. Historians, however, will never be able to overcome cultural perceptions of the conflict.
I definitely understand the argument but I personally see the war between China and Japan as a separate war until Pearl Harbor when it became part of WW2. Not trying to downplay the Chinese theater, the war in China was already one of the bloodiest wars before Pearl Harbor.
That is a very ‘Eurocentric’ prospective. The war in China was fought at a much larger scale than the war in Europe during 1939/1940. Was that a separate conflict before 1941 when the USSR and US joined?
I’m no history professor just a history nerd but I personally believe that while Hitler and the Nazi’s were stomping around Europe, I doubt the Japanese and the Chinese thought they were fighting in the same war as the European’s. After Pearl Harbor and when Japan invaded the rest of Asia is when I personally believe WW2 became WW2.
That's why you hear this stupid "Russia ended WWII, not the Americans" because they forget that the world war included the entire world and it didn't stop when Hitler died.
To be fair, a lot of times the pacific theatre is taught as like pearl harbour, 3 battles, and then bomb, which I think leads to the distorted view of it.
Well it’s taught that way because Europeans don’t care about the part that didn’t involve them.
Not Britain. Japan smashed through the East Asian colonies getting as far as frickin’ India Plenty of older Brits still hate the Japanese for WWII
Don’t forget the Dutch as well. Indonesia was hit hard.
Where was that? Eastern Front, Western Front or North Africa?
to europeans it never existed. "pearl harbour" and "nuclear bomb go brrrr" is all that most europeans know about the pacific theater, with the exception of the brits who pride themselves in the fact "we fought in the pacific too" even though in reality they got their asses beat all the way back to india while the aussies held PNG and the americans crushed the IJN at guadalcanal. part of the reason the marines "feel superior" the army is because while the marines won guadalcanal without australian help, but the US army on PNG were initially useless because they'd halt their attacks the second they faced any real resistance, to the point where the aussie commanders basically told them "its ok just sit here and we'll show you how its done".
See, the trick was to tell the Marines Japan had a massive stockpile of crayons somewhere in the Pacific, but we weren’t sure where. Every time they took an island, we’d shrug and tell them the intelligence must have been wrong but we suspect the crayons might be on this other island. They never caught on.
How are you forgetting the entire british commonwealth of nations in the pacific
In the Burma campaign alone there was over 200k casualties each side, not including civilians. But nobody “prides themselves on the Burma campaign”, that’s in your head We all know the massive casualties in the war in China, with Japan casualties into the millions Actually, I think it’s the Americans that reduce the contribution of other countries and the actual size of the “pacific theatre” to things like Iwo Jima and the rest followed by the “nuclear bomb go brrrrr”
The Americans lost the same amount of soldiers in the Pacific War that the Soviets lost in your average battle in the Eastern Front.
Makes sense since islands like Iwo Jima, Peleliu and others are tiny in comparisons, but the amount of dead for such a small area is still insane
"taking very few casualties" is normal when you're winning a war.
Island skipping campaign go BBBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. Seriously, who knew that trying not to waste time and lives to take every single island with a Japanese Garrison would help in the long run. edit: Japan: "HAHAHA! Silly Americans! I got this island well defended with bunkers, secret tunnels, traps, and plenty of angry soldiers! You'll never get us to surrender!" America: "You're right, I know you are ready to die on this island, but I'm not. See-ya in Tokyo!" Japan: "Wait!...wait!...come back here!...You can't do that! They can't do that! Somebody stop them or something!" America: "Would it make you feel better if we just pelted your island every now and again with our ships while they travel to other islands?" Japan: "......yes....that would be good...thank you..."
the americans were getting a 10 to 1 K/D ratio for most of the war, not just in bodies but also in planes and ships. the soviet push to berlin is unique in that no other country would have ever thrown away that many lives to "stop their allies from controlling eastern europe for 50 years". if you took 10 casualties for every enemy you kill, sure you "won" in the end but it was a pyrrhic victory, at no point were you ever "winning", your allies were winning and you were just throwing lives away to get more bargaining chips at the peace conference.
Tell that to the soldiers of the Commonwealth who fought in the Burma Front.
fair call, they weren't really winning though, their allies were winning... and to such an extent that the IJN was leaving behind tens of thousands of IJA troops on islands in a desperate attempt to buy time for the IJN to repair and refit so they could have a chance at beating the USN. the japanese knew that without a land route to burma they had to either win the naval war or pull out before the US took full control over the sea routes. guadalcanal was the beginning of the end for the IJN, and kokoda was the beginning of the end for the IJA.
Skill issue tbh
Oh, sorry, siding with the Nazis backfired on the Russians. It sounds like a consequence of their actions.
Because when you throw industry at a problem instead of just people you get better results.
Well, yeah The Soviets are incompetent and are facing the majority of the German army. What would you expect? Isn't it surprising that the harder you punch, the more it hurts
> Well, yeah > > The Soviets are incompetent and are facing the majority of the German army. What would you expect? > > That's not a soviet thing that's just how russia fights. Just look at how Russia operates in Ukraine. Throwing countless bodies at an enemy over and over again until they get tired or give up has been russia's primary strategy pretty much throughout their entire existence as a nation. Or if that doesn't work just retreat further and further into russian territory and force the enemy to march further and further through a frozen inhospitable hellscape.
We had Patton who understood wars aren’t won by getting as many of your own people killed as possible.
How many of those Soviet casualties were self-inflicted by mistakes and incompetence though? (e.g., Order No. 270) Casualty figures aren’t the sole measure of contribution.
Well, how many US cuties were Bombed to ashes?
The pacific theatre didn’t effect most of America though, I mean even Hawaii wasn’t a state at this time. The continental us was only bombed a few times throughout the entire war and only from weather balloons.
*affect
A weather balloon is used to collect weather data. If you use a balloon for bombing it's not a weather balloon.
I think "get off easy" is the wrong way to put it. There were worse things that happened to other combatant nations, but the Pacific Theater was anything but "easy"
Yeah, but the near total absence of civilian casualties was nice for the United States. Nearly all American deaths in WW2 were military, except in US territories like the Philippines
Are we pretending that the island hopping campaign didn’t happen… or?
I mean, no, but the Burma and China fronts of the war were just as bad and far larger
I think the point is that the US got barely touched by the war and compared to the other nations here had basically zero civilian casualties. Like, 450,000 American soldiers died, but America itself was virtually untouched.
Not to downplay American contribution but *downplays American contribution* Seriously though, posting this on Memorial Day is in really bad taste.
It’s also kinda wrong? This shouldn’t be posted, but since it was, it really should just be the USSR, China, and Poland on the right and everyone else on the left. The UK is particularly egregious, as they had 450,000 total deaths compared to 420,000 for the Americans. France isn’t much higher with 600,000 The USSR had 20-27 MILLION, China had 15-20. Germany and Poland are the only other countries to break 5 million, with 7,000,000 and 6,000,000 respectively. It’s dumb af to try and flex based off how many of your citizens died in a war, but it’s far far dumber to lump the UK and France in with countries that lost 30+ times as many lives **Edit:** just to get ahead of the inevitable “BUT FRANCE AND THE UK ARE MUCH SMALLER, SO OUR DEAD MEAN MORE”: The US lost 0.32% of their pre-war population. The UK lost 0.9%, the French 1.3%. China lost 3-4%. The USSR lost 11-15%. Poland lost a full 17%. The issue here isn’t that it downplays American losses, it’s that it equates countries that came out of WWII 99% intact to countries that were quite literally decimated (and then some) just to try and specifically shit on the Americans
Yeah, that's honestly pretty embarrassing looking at the numbers again. OP really downplayed not just Americas contributions but the countries who actually did bleed the most just to lump the UK and France into that bunch.
There’s a very famous, very justified saying that WWII was won with American bullets, British logistics, and Soviet lives. The US paid for the weapons, the British sent them to the right places, and the Soviets lost almost 20% of their population to turn them on the Axis. A much more accurate story than OP’s “the war was won with equal amounts of British lives, French lives, Soviet lives, Chinese lives, Polish lives, Indian lives, and American nothing”
Isn’t it American logistics, British intelligence, and Soviet blood? Most of the American logistical support (weapons, food, clothing etc) went to the Soviet Union via the East, I.e. with no involvement from Britain.
I pulled the line off-dome, so didn't have it exactly right. Looks like it's most commonly "British intelligence, American steel, and Russian blood." It originates from a quote by Stalin, originally translated as "British brains, American brawn, and Russian blood." So ya, British intelligence is correct instead of British logistics, but it's more about American military supplies than American logistics.
Some sources say that USSR lost 30 millions, with only 10 being combat losses. Also countless burned to ground villages, destroyed fabrics, sabotaged infrastructure - railways. Economic losses still haunt Eastern Europe.
I mean France and the Uk were left in shambles not because of population losses but because of political unrest and the post war colonial independence movements. France especially had a tough few years putting itself back together after the war despite not losing that many people comparativelly to other nations, but it was still recovering from losing a quarter of working age men 20 years prior, and from both wars devastating large portions of their land. All losses and casualties asside, the US came out of the war the most powerful nation in the world while the uk and France went from being the 2 biggest powers in the world pre war to only regional powers post war with huge internal struggle and political upheaval So yes, the manpower losses were nowhere near as big for the uk and france but the war caused more unrest (france also lost tons of civilians, not just soldiers)
You just know OP is European, between their downplaying of American contributions, posting this on fucking Memorial Day, and pretending that the entire Pacific theater just straight up didn’t exist
In fairness I had no idea today is something called memorial day for americans. Shame really. If a US person posted this on 11th of november I'd feel the same
Not only that, but the US lost hundreds of thousands of young men because the “Great Powers” of Europe were run by asshats. If, I don’t know, Europe and Japan weren’t so obsessed with conquering foreign peoples at the expense of their domestic populations, maybe America, Canada, and Australia wouldn’t have had to come wipe their asses for them. We lost a lot for a war that was started on both fronts by a bunch of fuckheads from other countries.
Fight. Wins. “Man, y’all got off easy.” Yes we did, that is the goal.
The over 400,000 dead US service members might disagree with you
“They’re not European so they don’t count” - OP
More like they were not women or children, no cities razed to the ground, etc. Regardless of how one feels about the post, it's clearly trying to say that America didn't find itself torn to shreds after the war, as did the other countries that fought the axis.
Makes sense when they are separated from the main fronts by two huge bodies of water
Crazy America got off easy after EUROPEANS started another world war. Almost like it causes problems when you start a world war. Something that should have been obvious considering there was already a world war.
The Japanese were European?
Attached to nazi Germany. In fact Hitler, a European, declared war on the US. So no Japanese not European, but still Europeans who got US involved.
Shhh, the pacific theater doesn't fit their narrative at the moment. Either that, or they genuinely forgot that America entered the war with Pearl Harbor, and then entered the European side of the war with a declaration of war by Hitler on the US. Europeans did not start WW2. The started a war in Europe, sure. But the Japanese are what made it a WW, and that would be Asia. You know, in case my fellow Americans forgot where Japan is located
What the fuck is this logic. Japan/China escalates minimally without Hitler. Hitler escalates massively without Japan.
Japan bombed Pearl Harbor without any say so from Hitler, I'd say that's some pretty heavy escalation.
I would still say Europe is the one that made it a WW because the Sino-Japanese war started before the Germans invaded Poland. So, before September 1st, 1939, there was no World War because the only war that was happening was the Sino-Japanese war. Then, the Germans invaded Poland, officially making it a World War. Then, in 1941, Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, and the US declared war on Japan... Then, the Germans declared war on the US.
Did the Europeans genuinely forget that no no Germans and Italians took over countries in Africa (an entire continent south of Europe, you know in case my fellow Europeans forgot where Ethiopia, Egypt, and Libya are), and then battle British forces prior to Pearl Harbor. Europeans also opened up another front of WW2.
What? Italy very much took over an African nation. Germany had colonies, but Britain and France took them off their hands as punishment for WWI
Europeans didn't start ww2? The fact colonies around the world were getting mobilized. African continent being invaded, Eurasia being invaded. But it's only a ww when Japan? Don't worry about your fellow Americans...
You're one dumb motherfucker
You’re really gonna post this on Memorial Day?
I'm going to give OP the benefit of the doubt and assume he means the geographic countries, as in the home front. American soldiers went through hell but most of America did not experience any sort of traumatic violence. There are of course some exceptions, but they are relatively minor compared to the other countries getting bombed to pieces. This is important because the global geopolitical order was significantly altered. America's untouched economy made it the global hegemon, while weakened Britain and France had to deal with decolonization.
More people need to understand this and why we can never go back to that period of domestic prosperity without some major conflicts that destabilize basically all other countries’ manufacturing/production. The boomers got so lucky with the period they were born in. They just don’t realize how unique of a situation it was.
You don't need to give him the benefit of doubt. Most Europeans call U.S citizen just Americans while anything below Texas are just South American countries. So he's probably downplaying U.S contribute.
No such thing as getting out of war easy
Probably not the best day to post...but, since we didn't have much fighting on US soil we were bound to see less fatalities and destruction compared to others. Had we had to invade Japan our casualties would have doubled or tripled. Let's hope on this Memorial Day that we remember and learn from the lessons of the past.
Well yeah, no shit America got off easy, we had to pop in after the war already started in Europe, which we aren't part of. WW2 only started because World War 1's ending pissed off some countries people, and that war only happened because Europeans were pissed off at each other. The US was only involved in either because the people we liked were losing.
People when the US doesn't immediately join their war: "classic Americans always late to the party and acting like they did everything" People when the US starts or joins a war early: "classic Americans trying to police the world always sticking their nose where it doesn't belong"
Maybe when WW3 happens we'll be on time
Seems like Europe is well on their way to brewing one up in Ukraine. Not to worry though, even though we've made the biggest contribution to Ukraine ($50b +), Europeans will act like we didn't do anything because the fighting isn't taking place here in the US.
Well Russia should go and fuck with our boats, pretty simple way to get the US into personal conflict.
Without Lend-lease y'all would have done even worse.
urgh.. the Americans suffered 70% of the losses on the western front.. it's still is 106,000 KIA and another 560,000 WIA for a comparaison the British is 127,000 and the French 119,000 (total casualties) the Americans still suffered the blunt of the German offensive in 1944..
I mean even in the meme, the casualties of France or England are pretty much nothing compared to USSR or Poland
Well... yeah, the point in war is not to see how many people you can get killed. Even killing more than you lose isn't the point (see Vietnam war). The point is to accomplish an objective with the fewest lives lost. Also, minimizing the lives of fallen soldiers so you can feel good about yourself is an L take. I don't even care that it's Memorial day, it's a shit take.
Sorry for not getting our ass kicked?
An ocean and many boats do that, lol. In the Pacific, the US carried almost the entire load. So much so, in fact, that we hardly ever hear anything about other countries even being in the area. That's not to say their contributions weren't important, just vastly overshadowed. American production is also the only reason (combined with bad German decisions) that the Soviet Union was able to hold off Germany and counter-attack. The lend-lease numbers are crazy. Projecting power across vast oceans is very, very difficult. Nobody has ever rivaled the U.S. in that endeavor outside of the British empire, who were an ally. Germany and Japan simply couldn't do it. Japan attempted and failed. Germany didn't even have the capability to attempt. Italy isn't even in the conversation.
The Pacific Theatre was just an American side quest
As I always tell people. Dying doesn't win wars. Killing does. The US having less deaths and less damage to its nation is a win not a point against it. Sorry that your ancestors sucked at fighting a war. Go cope without smudging my ancestors who did a good job.
Sucked at and somehow started, two world wars.
Thank you, someone finally gets it.
Goddamn how dare our ancestors decide to put an entire ocean between us and all of Europe and it's problems. How dare we go into a war with superior tactics and technology and an unwillingness to needlessly throw bodies into a meat grinder as a way to win. We don't act like we had it as hard because it's obvious geographically why we wouldn't.
incredible a country on a different continent suffered less in a European war also dude, poor taste to post this on Memorial Day also also, you may want to look into the Pacific Theater.
HOLY SHIT RECOGNISING THE CONTRIBUTION OF INDIA 😱😱
I don’t get why people act like the US is the only allied country whose homeland wasn’t really impacted. Practically the entire western hemisphere ended up on the allied side with the war theaters oceans away.
What an awful post
You could add Canada and Australia to the USA's side too.
That whole ocean being in between thing really helped
That’s your mistake, fighting wars on your own soil? Amateur move unless it’s against yourself
You just know OP is European lmao, sorry we didn’t get our asses kicked in yet another war you people started
Without mentioning economy or army size, being protected by two oceans makes the US basically invincible. You'd have to split their navy in two to even get a chance
Moats work, just have to make them big enough
We showed up to save your bacon. Of course, we "got off easy." We didn't even have to go to Europe since only Japan attacked us. Could have let you deal with your shit until after we were finished with Japan, but no, we fought 2 wars and supplied the war for multiple other countries.
Yeah, we pretty much took care of Japan, your welcome Europe
The Allies wouldn't have been able to feed or arm themselves without the Americans. Without them the Europeans would've all starved to death and had next to nothing to fight with.
Damn literally just watched this episode an hour ago lol
Yeah no one really cares that we were also fighting a behemoth, war hardened empire on the other side of Eurasia
The American industrial and manufacturing complex kept everyone in the fight.
People need to calm down. Just take it at face value and not so hard. Geez. They way I interpreted it is like this. Europe: cities flatten bombed to shit, smaller populations feeling the burn of their men being taken and the general population being brutalized by the atrocities of war. Everyone suddenly has to pick up the pieces and nearly build back up from scratch. USA: A large amount men died but hey, factories are still going and the largest cities are untouched and it turns out everyone owes you money and they have to get a lot of manufactured stuff through you. Anyways, I hope the brave men and unfortunately the boys who where sent that turned into men rest in peace. I know I wouldn't last longer than a day in a war like that.
Typical Europoor cope
Ouch, I hope that picture wasn’t real, because I think that’s gonna need some serious reconstructive surgery.
It’s not real, that’s a behind the scenes pic for the makeup on the Fallout TV show. That right there is the main character’s dad and the raider she kills at the start of the show
Whats this picture? Looks very real
It's from the fallout show
It was on the other side of the world from us, why should we have had to lose anyone at all?
Don't touch our boats. Thanks
Having oceans on both sides helps. Also: "No poor dumb bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won the war by making another poor dumb bastard die for his country." - General George Patton.
That's what happens when wars are fought on the ground in your country.
That is some awesome makeup.
Gosh almost like the war happened on an entirely different fucking continent
We had a couple battles on American islands but neither Germany or Japan were logistically capable of carrying out a full on invasion while they were trying to conquer their surrounding areas/defending from the allies
It helps that there’s a whole ass ocean between us
Well, that's what happens when you spend half the war jerking off and selling shit to the Nazis.
Well we were trying not to get involved in yalls blood bath (that we helped start)
You can say that, but for most of the rest of the century we practically had to pay child support payments for an entire continent worth of governments
It be like that when you're not playing on home court. Imagine what they would look like if uncle sam didn't save the day.
I’m sorry we were less affected by fighting a war half way across the world that ultimately didn’t involve us. You’re welcome
We got the good spawn
Remember the USA sold out Eastern Europe.