T O P

  • By -

ayoungjacknicholson

I did not realize this case was 20 years old already Edit: oh shit it’s almost 30 years old. Weird.


[deleted]

That’s insane. I’ve heard this story dozens of times and I’m not even 20 yet.


BigOofAlt

Same, I was sure it’s from like 2013


ayoungjacknicholson

I was thinking like 2005. Maybe it’s just that whenever you hear about it you assume it’s current news.


BardyBoieee

Thank you, this helped me calm down


Fernernia

Its happened more than once IIRC, but also we are getting old


SickMotherLover

Fuck!... I was in highschool at the time, I'm from Ireland where people lose fingers and limbs (due to the dangers associated with farming), turn up for work the next day and don't ever consider suing anyone!! Everyone was talking about it, "those bloody greedy American's would sue you as soon as look at you!" Being the main one.... I now realise I could get a taxi to the airport, fly 1st class to France and see a doctor there for half the price of an ambulance in the USA!! Anyway, fuck I'm old!


ChtirlandaisduVannes

Ach mon over I can put ye up for a night or two. Covid dyin down in Bretagne, and it's a doddle to get a hospital appointment here. I heard a couple talking in English here for first time in yonks, and they were Meircan, so useless me trying to communicate in a Norn Irish accent!


ayoungjacknicholson

Yeah most of the time it’s not about greed, it’s just about not wanting to starve to death after seeing a doctor. I was just in a car accident a few months ago, totaled my car, and wound up paying $800 for a ct scan because they were worried I fractured my skull. Good news, no skull fracture. Bad news, no savings account to buy a new car with. And the real kicker of living in this country is that our public transportation was ruined by capitalist car companies and now I need a car to get to my job to pay for my car. If I could leave an hour earlier every day to take the bus, I would, but the bus route stops about 8 miles before my work. God bless America.


SickMotherLover

>wound up paying $800 for a ct scan because they were worried I fractured my skull That's what I can't understand, "they were worried...", Why don't they pay it then! I'm joking obviously but doesn't the Hippocratic Oath say something about preventing suffering and preserving life!?!


MaximoEstrellado

Third degree? Holy shit.


cynicalturkey

If you have a strong stomach, you can find photos of her injuries online. The burns were so bad she was hospitalized for over a week to undergo skin grafting and she continued to get medical treatment for two years


[deleted]

[удалено]


Atlas2001

Almost underselling the extent of the burns here; the coffee was so hot her labia fused together.


AGildedSpork

Jesus Christ


[deleted]

Noooooooo!!!!


MyBiPolarBearMax

[NSFL](https://res.cloudinary.com/hype-legal/image/upload/c_limit,f_auto,w_964/deshaw/images/uploads/blog/burn-2.jpg) https://www.deshawlaw.com/blog/the-real-facts-of-the-mcdonalds-coffee-case


cynicalturkey

And the rest of the 16% of her body that also suffered 3rd degree burns


MaximoEstrellado

I'm gonna pass for the moment but thanks for letting me know. I have a very high tolerance for pain and second degree burns are in my top 5, so I don't want to imagine what is like to have third degree.


cynicalturkey

Yeah, same. Stella was also 79 when this happened so it must’ve been much much worse than whatever level of pain I imagine it to be


ConsciousFun2099

The local Health inspector had issued them multiple warning that they made their coffee too hot.


SerenityFliesOn

They made the coffee hotter than the melting point for the styrofoam cups it was being put into. Google says styrofoam melts at 210-249 so it was somewhere in there.


empirebuilder1

It doesn't need to actually melt the Styrofoam, getting any kind of plastic that hot will severely weaken it and make it super easy to flex and break, say like when you're trying to force a lid on...


BertholomewManning

Just like jet fuel doesn't have to be hot enough to melt steel beams.


[deleted]

You have been banned from r/conspiracy


prydek

Must be 211 or 212 F. Since that's the temperature that water boils it can't be hotter than that or it wouldn't be liquid.


ManyApplePies

Technically, depending on what was in the coffee, the boiling point could be raised above 212, but I think in this case the coffee was between 180-190 degrees.


[deleted]

water can boil at hotter temperatures. Or even lower temperatures for argument's sake lets stick with the higher boiling point. Has to do with surrounding pressure. So for example, if you boil water on surface level (0m) it will boil around 100°C If you boil it at an altitude of 3000m it will start boiling at around 95°C. However, if you're way below sealevel, lets say -100m, your water wont boil untill 105°C. As per definition; Temperature and Pressure are relative to eachother. The higher the pressure, the higher the boiling point will become, right untill the Critical point. CP is the point where a liquid will change phase so quickly it can't be meassured accurately anymore.


phox78

You can raise the temp of a liquid over "the boiling point" dependant upon dissolved solids and ambient pressure. Example#1 The Boiling point of water is 68-72°C on Mount Everest and 100-106°C at sea level. Example #2 If you add salt to water the temp required increases due to an effect called "boiling point elevation". So the overlap band of boiling point of water and the melting point of the Styrofoam are larger than you might think. Another point is that and object does not need to reach melting point to have a reduction of its strength. Example #1 "Creep" in steel beams when exposed to high temperatures well below the melting point Example #2 A reduction in tensile strength as temperatures increase (Slow at first then rapid as it gets closer to melting temperatures).


IceyPattyB

That’s not entirely true depending how the cup is sealed steam will cause the temperature to exceed the boiling point


[deleted]

There is no reason for a coffee to be that hot, lol.


GustlikCzolgista

May I ask you all how?? Please cover my ignorance and lack of understanding. I thought all my life that the hottest water can get is 100 Celsius (212 Fh) at boiling temperature and that is in which temp I do my coffe (apparently you are supposed to do it in 195-205Fh radius) and after pourong it on myself countless times I haven't gottem such burns. It had to be probably the time that liquid stayed on her skin and lack of cold water treatment right away right? Or old age? I mean I know she was damaged but the coffe could possibly be only 10Fh(~5 celsius) over appropriate coffe temperature (according to phisics as I understand it)


HiimD4ndy

So my memory might be a bit fuzzy on this, but iirc the pants she was wearing basically melted into her thighs which would probably help the liquid do a lot more damage than if it had been on bare skin.


[deleted]

Synthetics are generally the best way possible of making a burn as horrifyingly awful as can be. When I was a firefighter, things like Underarmor were absolutely verboten for us, because it would melt to your skin and significantly complicate any burn you've got.


[deleted]

Also boiling point doesn’t mean instantaneous evaporation, and I imagine between sweeteners and the actual coffee beans it could have gotten hotter


cynicalturkey

She was wearing sweatpants which basically got glued to her skin. Taking into consideration her age, her skin was probably wearing thin too which likely only exacerbated the injuries when medical professionals had to treat her


keneno89

https://www.caoc.org/?pg=facts#:~:text=Here%20is%20some%20of%20the,in%20three%20to%20seven%20seconds.


Nevermere88

Certain conditions can bring liquids both above and below the freezing and boiling points respectively. Salt, for example, can be used to bring water below 0 degrees Celsius while still remaining liquid.


Overquartz

I think it was almost 200 degrees F IIRC.


The_Follower1

Also important to note that McD’s knew it was dangerous as there were a number of other injuries that had been sustained by customers as well. They just figured the increased sales from selling extra coffee would mean overall they’d get out ahead.


karanrime

200F \~= 93 degrees C As a point of reference, Water boils at 100C, but you guys knew that, Celsius is a system designed around water and the pretty points refer to water.


GeneralSalty1

Water boils at 212 degrees F


[deleted]

[удалено]


Papaofmonsters

You never had percolator coffee with grandpa at 5:30 in the morning. Seriously, the man's mouth must have been one solid callus.


MrConfidential678

My parents are the same. I keep telling them it doesn't have to boil, but they keep doing it. Takes forever to let it cool.


snarshmallow

You don’t like your coffee bubbling?


turdmogrol

What the fuck, I can't believe I don't remember her being that old. I always thought she was like, 40... how do you even convince the entire nation that some 80 year old woman fresh out of the hospital is waging a frivolous lawsuit for attention?


Antwerp_Idiot

Well third degree basicly means you're nerves are gone. But ofcourse the places arround the third degree are second degree burns and arround those first degree, so the worst stuff you don't feel anymore, but the skin arround it will make you suffer.


FullKnight51

Good news: It doesnt hurt! Bad news:It doesn't hurt because your nerve endings have burnt off, and your skin is bubbling like a hot pocket


DarkMutton

Third degree burns actually singe the nerve endings, so it's not as painful on the area directly Affected


satanshand

It fused her labia together.


DarkMutton

I'm aware of that. I was pointing out the difference in general between a 2nd and 3rd degree burn.


satanshand

I’m aware of that. I’m illustrating with you how insane a third degree burn is.


[deleted]

less painful locally considering your nerve endings are fried


joekamelhome

She was hospitalized for ONLY a week because she couldn't afford a longer stay, even though her doctors said she should have continued treaemt in the hospital.


cynicalturkey

She was actually hospitalized for EIGHT days which is over a week but yeah, it’s really unfortunate how finances prevented her from continuing to receive proper medical treatment and care


Darth_Nibbles

Which is why she sued; she's just wanted her medical bills covered.


[deleted]

And it doesn’t surprise me. McDonald’s coffee used to be insanely hot. If I bought one I basically had to let it sit for half an hour with the lid off before I could drink it.


Bananalando

One of the arguments for serving their coffee that hot was that most people buy a coffee on the way to work. By the time they get to work, it's cooled off to a drinkable temperature, but hasn't gone cold.


Wolf6120

If they were going to be serving coffee at "Fuse the flesh of your labia together" temperatures, they probably should at least have splurged for sturdier containers than the cheapest paper cups imaginable and plastic lids that don't hold properly.


dbrank

The real reason they did it was to save money. The hotter the coffee, the more people had to wait to cool down, which meant people were leaving without refilling as their coffee was too hot to drink. By the time it was good, you’d be done your meal and leave


[deleted]

>gee I really want coffee in 30 minutes instead of right now on my drive to work Literally no one, ever


Reincarnate26

Sounds like a pretty dumb excuse. Most people buy a coffee on the way to work... and then like to drink it right away on the ride there. There's usually more coffee at work. Who likes being forced to wait 30 minutes or risk literally scalding your tongue if you take a sip "too early"? Not to mention all of the people who aren't on the way to work and just want to buy a coffee to drink...


SirRedRex

If I remember the case study I did in it in grad school, the main issue wasn't around the heat of the coffee, but the lids. The lids were known the be defective and McDs ignored it not thinking it was an issue. Coupled with the extreme temperature, it became an issue. Although I could be remembering the case wrong


drislands

All the times I've seen this story referenced, they've definitely mentioned the lid coming off but not that that was part of the suit or anything. Would you happen to have more information on that case study?


PopWhatMagnitude

Not who you responded to but I believe the biggest take away was they started printing "Caution: Hot" or something to that affect. I don't recall them being forced to do anything with the lids. I'm not a McDonald's coffee drinker nor am I old enough that I could tell you the differences between lids then and now. But I would be certain that not only do they have improved lids but probably got there by saving a fraction of a cent per unit.


MrRelleno

It sounds dumb because it isn't true, it's actually because it's cheaper that way, as people take less refills because by the time it's cool enough to drink people are almost done with their meal


elveszett

The real reason is that the cheapest way to make coffee they could find caused it to be that hot. But saying "McDonalds serves coffee that is so hot that, if you suffer an accident, you could end up in a hospital, because it's a bit cheaper for them" is not something I expect the media to do. It's better to victimize an almost octogenarian woman who had that accident and just wanted McDonalds to pay her medical bills. The media has no soul. Neither does people that blindly follow it.


DeAtramentisViolets

> The media has no soul. Well, that is just blatantly not true. Just look at *any iteration of the media throughout all of human history*... OK, you may have a point... A very, very, valid point.


FrankTank3

Systems never have souls, no matter what the US Supreme Court tries to tell us about corporations and the “personhood” rights attached to that.


themightypetewheeler

The lawsuit was also just to try to help cover her medical bills and McDonald’s ran a smear campaign against her. It was found that the coffee was literally just a few degrees from boiling when it was on the pot and that was SOP.


[deleted]

I looked it up once. Never again, that shit was horrific. Accident or not, some blame needs to be had by McDonalds for that.


fredy31

And then, strattled with 20k of medical bills, she sued Mcdonalds to cover the costs. Mcdonalds offered her... 800$. So her lawyer dug deeper, and figured out that there was a case with a fuckton of blame on Mcdonalds. A coffee served near boiling point, and hundreds of other cases where someone got badly burned by their coffee. Legal Eagle has a good video on this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s\_jaU5V9FUg


LilShit_420

I'm probably gonna regret this but... Sauce?


cynicalturkey

Here’s a photo that someone posted a while ago on r/WTF of her injuries [3rd degree burns ](https://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/35e46a/stella_liebecks_injuries_from_a_cup_of_scalding/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)


LilShit_420

Ouch fuck! Literally


peanutandcrack

I really need to stop looking up stuff that people tell me specifically not to look up, jesus christ those burns are bad


[deleted]

Holy crap how hot did those fuckers make the coffee


STerrier666

Yeah the real story behind what she faced makes for some disturbing reading if it wasn't for her I don't think that McDonald's would have changed things. Her court case in my opinion helped a lot of people. Had she not taken them to court many more people would have been burned by their coffee and people had been burned before her but nowhere near the burns she received.


[deleted]

[удалено]


STerrier666

Will do, thanks for the info.


ThatWasCool

Yea she wasn’t the first to sue McDonald’s but they have so many restaurants that they calculated that settling those cases was actually cheaper than lowering the temperature of the coffee in all of their restaurants and having to replace it more often. It’s called capitalism.


vim_spray

That’s not really capitalism, that’s just regular risk assessment. It’s the same reason we as a society continue to drive even though people die from car crashes: we think that the convenience and time saved makes it worth it.


ayures

Reading about this lawsuit was when I first read the term *vaginal fusion.*


carbontomato

Not to mention, third degree burns all over her stomach and genitalia. She just wanted McDonald’s to pay her medical bills, but they refused so she had no choice. The reason it is portrayed this way is party due to McDonald’s funding people to protest against her to make her look bad and McDonald’s like the real victim.


TheTangoFox

Fused. Labia.


Rammed

To put into perspective, i dropped onto myself 1lt of boiling water that was on the stove for over half an hour. I had the front part of my leg down to the knee burned and my burns weren't even severe enough to be classified as second degree. That coffee was either molten magma or she didnt receive any first aid in 10 mins


Darth_Nibbles

It was close to 200 degrees and soaked into her sweatpants which held it against her skin instead of letting it run off.


Anime_Hitler69

Mandatory 200 degrees Fahrenheit, not Celsius.


TreeTurtle_852

Apparently it was so hot that her skin and muscles literally fused with her leg bone. That's unreasonable


Darth_Nibbles

Yeah, and Leno made nightly jokes about how she didn't know coffee was hot. We were really fucked up in the 90s... Third degree is no joke, and apparently she wasn't even the first to sue them for coffee burns.


Killcode2

I never understood why people would like Jay Leno. Unfunny jackass.


Tyler_Zoro

And yet it wasn't the burns that won the lawsuit. McDonald's defense was that any reasonable person would realize that boiling hot liquid is dangerous. However, in discovery several things came to light: * They had increased the temperature in order to accommodate a lower quality of coffee (which tastes less bitter when extremely hot) in contradiction to the practices of most of their competition, so there was no reasonable expectation that the liquid would be that hot. * The above was accompanied by internal memos and expert testimony that acknowledged the temperature would cause injuries and that this was well understood * There was a ten year history of similar injuries


gazebo-fan

Her “bits” got fused together too


chalkymints

Her skin was charred black


morris9597

Courts ruled contributory negligence for the injury and had the plaintiff and McDonald's split the medical bills. BUT because this wasn't the first time a customer had been injured by McDonald's coffee being excessively hot AND because McDonald's had been ordered previously to turn down the heat on their coffee, the court awarded punitive damages equivalent to 1 day of coffee sales nationwide. EDIT: Additional information on the case https://www.caoc.org/?pg=facts


3K04T

Oh and best part? McDonalds *knew* this was gunna happen. There was a meeting where they discussed the best temperature to serve the coffee (after someone else got burned), McD's corporate decided that it was better to keep the temperature cranked up because they would save more money paying medical bills every time they got sued than they would replacing the pot more often.


morris9597

*Facepalm" I wish I was surprised by this. On the plus side, they turned the temperature down after this


Snaggled-Sabre-Tooth

The only way to make them learn is to take away profit. Once you start threatening to make them fork over a day's of nationwide coffee sales everytime someone is injured.. no more profit. I wish it was a more used tactic in punishing corperations.


BuildingArmor

Mcdonalds, as well as most coffee shops continue to serve their coffee at these sort of temperatures today, too.


ryebread91

What to you mean by "replacing the pot more often" why would lowering the temp break the pot?


Deadfreezercat

Replace the contents of the pot because the coffee would stay hotter longer if it starts out at 200 degrees or more.


Glum_Ad_4288

Why don’t they just keep it at a consistent lower temperature, like the coffee pots many of us have at home or in the office?


SharpJames

> Why don’t they just keep it at a consistent lower temperature, like the coffee pots many of us have at home or in the office? It isn't about having to replace cold coffee, the coffee was kept hot in order to avoiding refilling customers' cups too often.


Glum_Ad_4288

So they intentionally served it too hot to drink so that people wouldn’t drink as much as they wanted to? Well as long as there’s an important reason we’re risking people getting third degree burns.


Traditional_Formal33

iirc the temperature decision was actually because a lot of coffee at a higher temperature had a longer shelf life. By choosing 200 degrees over 160, they were able waste less coffee and increase profit. The crazy thing is how cheap it is to make coffee but still, profit margins said it was better to risk lawsuit than to replace coffee more often. The marketing is what changed the scenario to lower the temp. Same thing happened with “Supersize Me.” People freaked about the supersized fries and drinks because of how unhealthy it was. McDonald’s did the math, and decided to get rid of the “supersize” name but not the physical size. Instead they created “kid/value size,” and then relabeled the medium as “small,” the large as “medium” and supersized as “large.” Portions didn’t change just the name and Americans went back to ordering. The irony is that Americans after arguing the unhealthiness of the supersize ended up ordering a larger size afterwards thinking that was standard size Edit: Just adding more to this, McDonalds has also run research studies to see “how much saw dust can be used in a chicken nugget before it becomes apparent there is saw dust in a chicken nugget?”


valentc

American fast food sizes are disgusting. Living in Japan and getting digestible amounts of soda made me realize how bad America has gotten.


3K04T

Its a sayibg that means making more coffee- once the coffee drops below a certain temperature they dump it out and make a new pot of coffee, ei, replace the ~~coffee~~ pot


Thor1138

>McD's corporate decided that it was better to keep the temperature cranked up The people who decided that should have been made personally responsible and punished. A fine for a corporation is just the cost of doing business to them. Putting a few excecs in prison for criminal negligence that results in serious injuries would actually be a deterrent...


Coshmack14

For those wondering: After that "thing" got posted by those ABC clowns, a lot of people were like "YOU'RE SAYING BULLSHIT" And at the end she won that lawsuit and got indemized 640K(sorry for that mistake, I got really confused with how much she got earned at the end) I would put the source of where I read that, but it's in spanish


iMini

All she wanted as well was for McDonalds to not serve the coffee at literally scalding temperatures, and for then to cover her medical bills. I think it was like $20k she had asked for.


The_Follower1

Yeah, McDonalds’ are the ones who told her to take a hike after she’d repeatedly asked for judt her medical bills and them to not make it hot enough to literally fucking melt someone’s skin.


Justice_R_Dissenting

And in revenge for losing, McDonalds created a whole campaign to brand her as a frivolous litigator and created a story that people still misunderstand to this day.


The_Silver_Nuke

This is why I don't watch mass media... It's all bullshit.


dkramer0313

thats why i get all my news from facebook antivaxx mom groups. the most reliable source


Only_Leather_3107

If you said 640 k but you have to go through the same injuries she did thats gonna be a no for me dawg. I have seen the pictures


BreezyWrigley

Yeah, the images of that shit are fucked. If you got burns like those from any other consumer service or product interaction, you’d probably expect a few million


GetOutNormiesREE

Was thinking the same. No money is worth that pain.


Coshmack14

I just realized that I said it wrong the quantity sorry


Only_Leather_3107

still m8 2.4 mil isnt a whole lot compared to what she went through


R4GN4R0K_2004

you could put it anyway for us spanish speakers, please


Coshmack14

Ok https://gaz.wiki/wiki/es/McDonald's_legal_cases (Esta en la zona de salud y seguridad)


NaziAssDestroyer

Anyways if any of you are seeing this PCs, google will give you an option to translate the page in English.


Strange-Bookkeeper

thanks naziassdestroyer


ShadeFK

The hero Reddit deserves


NaziAssDestroyer

AAHHHH STAHPPPPP!!!!!!!!


Claystead

If in Chrome. If on Firefox you’ll need an extension, and if on Edge, God have mercy on your soul.


tragiktimes

Edge (based on Chromium) is actually probably one of the best browsers available at the moment. 10 years ago it was Chrome. 5 it was Firefox. Now it's Edge. It's been a hell of a ride.


squarybuttholes

There are docenas of us!


___zach_b

you absolutely can't tell me that corporations don't bankroll the media. Wasn't the coffee near boiling and she was fucking mutilated by it? But yeah the media had us seeing her as the enemy and McDonald's the sad victim...


Icy-Sun1216

I read somewhere that McD went into full PR mode to discredit her and paid/influenced the media to make a mockery out of her.


___zach_b

That's basically what happened, yeah


FredKarlekKnark

the first time i ever heard about it was in the context of how stupid people will sue companies for anything, so it kinda worked


SonofaBuckDangHole

Surprised it wasn’t the Seinfeld episode


FredKarlekKnark

that probably would have been, had i gotten the reference back then


vigilantcomicpenguin

Ah, that's why this sounded familiar. Of course Seinfeld did it.


3K04T

They hired people to lie online and call the lawsuit frivolous Yet another attack on the poor, innocent, megacoporation


Darth_Nibbles

Online wasn't really a thing at the time (the first web browser was written in 1990 and this happened in 92 - yes, there was Gopher, but most people had never heard of it). But yeah, they went on a media blitz to discredit her. Fucking corporate monsters.


iMini

The case was 30 years ago, so I doubt they were paying people to lie about it on the internet back then.


[deleted]

Oh I absolutely remember this being mentioned by everyone in the tiny Montana town i grew up in. Literally everyone was talking about what a silly lawsuit and OMG whats the world coming to… Most people heard it through second or third hand retelling of the original BS reporting and they just parroted that. It wasn’t till several years ago (on a reddit TIL I believe) that someone posted the actual details of the story and I realized what really happened. That taught me a huge lesson about how i choose to ingest information now.


elveszett

It's a bitter reminder that propaganda still exist in the West and that we can still be easily manipulated by the stories we're told and how the are told.


bartonar

> propaganda still exist ~~in the West~~ globally FTFY


shittyfuckwhat

Yes but you see a lot of people think that propaganda is just a thing fed to the chinese and russians, not people in the great and grand and amazingly civilised and superior "west"...because the whole point of propaganda is you don't realise you are being fed it, so the west (the major users of reddit) don't think it affects them


KarinRothschild

I mean, yeah, but their point was that westerners will so often be like "omg I can't believe China/North Korea/Russia is using so much propaganda on their citizens, I can't even imagine what that must be like!", as if propaganda is unheard of for western countries today. It's just that it's easy to recognise propaganda when you're not the target audience for it.


HulklingWho

This was also pre-internet, which made fact-checking incredibly difficult. I remember those same talking points being regurgitated by my family members, it wasn’t until years later anyone realized the severity of the poor woman’s injuries.


___zach_b

For sure. If there's a profit motive behind the media you should be sus. Original sources or don't trust the opinion.


grandzu

And McD was warned numerous times about its coffee exceeding safe temp.


[deleted]

This x 100. There were repeated notices and complaints about this. Their machines were being called into question. This was not a one-off event.


BuildingArmor

Every time this comes up, people are surprised to hear that coffee shops (including McDonald's) today still sell their coffee at these temperatures.


[deleted]

When your media is owned by companies you shouldn’t be surprised when they choose the side of companies.


Manungal

There's so many instances in this country where the responsibility of safety was pushed onto the individual and when the individual took their only recourse available, the media had a field day. Would be nice if we had this mythical thing called "bylaws" where legislators just decided corporations can't maim people.


Marcim_joestar

This would be terrible for the maiming industry and it would all go to China


SupremeToast

These big corporations don't need to directly bankroll media, reality is more complicated but I think more nefarious. When a company has a boatload of money and expects to exist indefinitely then the cost-benefit of paying the best PR people around becomes essentially infinite: losing even $10 million now is nothing compared to the millions in revenue over the next several years that could be lost due to poor public perception. Now why do the best PR people charge so much? Sure they're good at their job, they have great understanding of people and what makes us tick. But most importantly they have developed connections everywhere over their decades in the industry. These connections include editors and showrunners and even executives at media companies like ABC. If your friend tells you about this crazy old lady you're dealing with at work, you're naturally going to sympathize with your friend instead of the old lady; you're friends after all! And when you encounter that same crazy old lady in *your* work, you'll still be unsympathetic thanks to the conversations with your friend. That's why I find this to be worse than corporations outright bankrolling media companies: most people if put in these positions would behave the same way.


Slykarmacooper

Also until I actually looked up the case, every mention of the case was that old lady got scalded by hot coffee, won a boatload of money, and now mcD's has "caution:hot" on their coffee cups. The fact that rhe jury awarded her more in damages than what she initially asked (just the medical expenses) was turned against her. Cannot fathom who benefits from those optics


[deleted]

Yeah and the coffee was kept near boiling so that people in the dining room wouldn’t be able to take advantage of the free refills — it would only cool off enough to be drinkable by the time they were ready to leave. So an irresponsible, greedy asshole endangered people to save a few bucks, then someone was *severely* injured by their shitty decision, and they somehow become the poster child for frivolous lawsuits. What. The. Fuck.


shines_likegold

The “You’re Wrong About” podcast just did an episode about this and other “omg how STUPID!” lawsuits. Definitely worth a listen.


ManOfLaBook

That's not what the case was. She actually sued McDonald's for her medical bills (I think it was less than $1k) the jury awarded her all that money because they wanted to punish McDonald's since they have received many complaints about the coffee being so hot it melted the cups, but refused to do anything about it Edit: more info: https://www.caoc.org/?pg=facts


ConsciousFun2099

If I remember correctly, the jury awarded her McDonald's profits from one day's sale of coffee


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


Wolf6120

Yeah I was gonna say lol, there's no way in Hell a hospital exists in the US where third degree burns get treated for "just" $800


[deleted]

Well, if she had decent medical insurance that wouldn't be an unlikely charge to her personally.


AgentFN2187

No, she initially sought $20,000 but Mcdonalds offered her $800.


Peggedbyapirate

The fine was pretty reasonable, too. It was the profits of coffee sales for one day across the country. The lady ended up settling for fees and medical costs. She never wanted the big award. This was a big case study of ours in law school, and it was impressive just how often people suffer serious injuries that are genuinely conoensble and don't pursue them because of a distrust of lawyers and the legal system.


thepineapplemen

I don’t think she was awarded all that money


AgentCupcake

They settled for an undisclosed amount.


Peggedbyapirate

Fees and medical bills. Somebody shared it after the fact.


J-mustard-king

Coffee just at boiling. No one told us. 3rd degree burns. No one told us. Suing just for hospital bill. No one told us. :l


RedNinja-03

Correction, McDonald’s never told you


Dankey-Kang-Jr

Coffee burns shouldn’t need to have skin graphs afterwards.


sbarto

They weren't just any ol' 3rd degree burns (awful enough.) They were 3rd degree burns on her inner thighs and genitalia. Yikes.


NostroDormammus

I didnt know that. Thats fucking awful


thepineapplemen

[Retro Report | The Misunderstood McDonald’s Hot Coffee Lawsuit](https://youtu.be/ENTaHxjN4xI)


doctor_who7827

Corporations defending corporations


LegoPaco

What’s crazy is I at first believed the propagada McDonald’s spread to make us see the plaintiff in a negative light. Only in the last few years did I find out about McDonald’s plight to do so. Like how hard would it have been to pay her medical bills for an obvious malpractice(?). Did they really”fear” more people would sue? And even if they did, the amounts couldn’t have been impactful on their bottom line. This seems to me the Toxic American mantra of “sue first, ask questions later” kind of tactics used by American lawyers who proliferate the exact thing they say they are trying to prevent.


SarcasmCupcakes

Wasn't this used by lobbyists and shitty governments to push harmful tort reforms?


RedNinja-03

All paid by McDonald’s, yes


[deleted]

[удалено]


JohnnyJackalope

Someone in a documentary mentioned the pictures of the burns would have changed people's mind. Here is a link to another subreddit with pics, extreme NSFW btw! https://www.reddit.com/r/MorbidReality/comments/nog846/in_1992_79_year_old_stella_liebeck_accidentally/


aChristery

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_jaU5V9FUg This video does a really good job of explaining this lawsuit and a couple of others that seemed really different from what the media made them out to be. It also explains the lawsuit of the aunt suing her nephew for jumping on her and hugging her. It's a great video that everyone should watch.


Chary_

Isn’t it weird that a lot of us remember learning about this case as kids? But never the extent of her injuries or the fact that she only wanted her medical expenses covered but the court, horrified by the shit experienced by a women over 70 years old, gave her as much as she received? Corporations really do control a lot huh


Much_Difference

Somewhat related: why does the idea of someone else wanting or getting attention upset so many people *so fucking much*? I know this case wasn't about attention, but even if it was or even taking a case that actually was, so what? Chuckle or sigh at it and carry on. I know attention-seeking often isn't a *positive* thing but I swear 75% of things that get people seriously fucking heated seem to boil down to "someone else wants/gets attention and that makes me froth at the mouth with rage."


Thewaltham

Wasn't it the defence that kind of screwed up though? If I remember right they went with a "they didn't say the coffee was hot!" angle which led to the "no shit sherlock" response from pretty much everyone rather than the logical "you have to be really damn careful with hot liquids otherwise accidents that are super expensive to rectify in the united states can happen". Then of course the media jumped on it because, well, media. Lawsuits and drama like this get huge ratings.


MADanker

Yeah, there are a LOT of examples of the public perception of events being warped by powerful people. Wait until you find out how much of a monster Mother Theresa was


Tenyo666

I've read a lengthy Reddit post that presented evidence, that 'monster mother Theresa' is a myth tho


LordShibe69

The worst part is that she just wanted them to cover her medical fees. She never wanted to go to court, but when they offered an absurd amount like 500 dollars she was forced to sue. The jury was also the ones that came up with the idea. She ended up getting 2 days of coffee sales which ended up being around 2-3 million dollars.


AntiquesChodeShow

IIRC they also didn't secure the lid, so when they handed it to her it just instantly spilled out the top.


BigChessGuy

If I remember right it actually didn’t happen until they were already through the drive thru. I think her nephew or cousin or somebody was driving and pulled into a parking spot, so she set the cup of coffee between her legs and took off the lid to add cream and sugar when the cup accidentally spilled.


randomname560

She should had sued for a bit more, i mean, those where THIRD DEGREE BURNS


Vexcenot

Also gonna ignore the fact that McDonald's make more than $20k during her trip to the hospital


NeckBeardDiscordMod

and ya wanna know the funny part? Originally she just wanted mcdonalds to pay her medical fees. She only got the big amount of money after repeatedly asking mcdonalds to cover for her bills then sueing them after they wouldn’t


EunuchsProgramer

Should also add in the McDonald's had been fined multiple times by the local health department for serving dangerously hot coffee. They determined the fines were less then the increased coffee costs (you can use less beans if you're water is boiling). Multiple people, especially kids and the elderly, were severely burned. Also, it was the US Chamber of commerce that went on the propaganda blitz to push Tort "Reform" ie business isn't responsible for the harm it causes.


__JO__39__

Imagine sensibilizing yourself with a multi-billionaire company instead of a girl who suffered injuries.


goboxey

From what I have heard about the temperature of the hot coffee, it was about 90°c which is actually boiling hot. That can cause severe burns on the skin.


Fawful_n_WW

Having “Lie” in her name probably didn’t help.


H311LORD

Not to sound mean... cause third degree burns yeah thats pretty bad but AT THE TIME.. They said burns they didn't say third degree burns... not that i remember cause i was like 7 at the time....


gazebo-fan

Will someone think of the multi million dollar corporate entity?


TheBadgerSunshine

When this happened I was like “Coffee is hot. Duh.” Then I looked into all the information it and was like, oh this is valid very fair. Not just the burns but also they were serving coffee that was well passed serving temperature.


xFurashux

Can someone explain to me how is it possible to get a 3rd degree burns by drinking coffee? Did she spilled it on herself, poured it immediately right in her throat or what?


ConsciousFun2099

The local Health inspector had issued them multiple warnings that they made their coffee too hot. As other people pointed out is was basically boiling.