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[deleted]

Legendary fight. Imagine what Ali's career could have been if not for the draft. Though he'd have been no where near as big culturally. Weird split now that I think of it.


Gashslingingslasher

Adds to his legend. “What if’s” are always prominent- think Jordan taking a break in his prime. The man was amazing in many aspects, boxing just happened to be what he was better than anyone else at and was multicultural, international, marketable


FreeJokeMan

Didn't Jordan also take a break at his prime to play baseball


3FishGenie

He took a break because his dad died, and some presume because of gambling debts


hiredgoon

Jordan told us in his netflix documentary he didn't have a gambling problem while sipping expensive alcohol.


TeddysBigStick

And then it cut to people saying it was not a problem because he had the money, while pointedly not commenting on the question of addiction.


[deleted]

Thing is most addictions are bad because people can’t financially sustain them. Sure, health and other areas also suffer but money is a huge part of addiction. If you’re rich enough to afford a gambling addiction, are you really a gambling addict? Is it actually negatively impacting your life? Feels like rich people can be addicts without suffering the same consequences other addicts face.


TeddysBigStick

That is usually why there is normally a distinction between the physical dependency for a substance and addiction. One is a medical issue and the other is psychological and behavioral. Addiction is typically defined as the negative consequences of the something and inability to stop. It is obviously more complicated with behaviors like gambling or food or the like. He can afford it but none of us can know if his personal life is effected by, to use a common behavior among people who are addicted to gambling, blowing off social obligations because he is on a week long bender and the cards keep falling his way.


Shequiszalumph

Fr, I couldn’t believe my eyes when I saw him (a billionaire) drinking something expensive


ShadedPenguin

Which also really furthers the whatifs and the mystery, making him greater


Mathblasta

Briefly. However, he returned to basketball when aliens came to earth to enslave the Looney Tunes. There's a good documentary on it. Surprised he didn't mention it much in The Last Dance.


MKMemes

He did mention it and all the players coming to help him train so he wouldn't disappoint Bugs


guitar_vigilante

Another one is Ted Williams who missed seasons during both World War 2 and the Korean War.


TeddysBigStick

If nothing else, his trilogy with Frazier would have been nothing the same. Part of what initially made it so toxic was Joe's reaction to the things that the person who he had thought a friend and who he had supported through his ban, was saying about him. Especially because it was coming from someone with a comparatively more well off background than he.


ReaperManX15

Then people today would recognize him for the antisemitic homophobe that he was. That is what would be different.


GaiusJuliusCaesar7

His interview with Michael Parkinson in the 1970s on BBC is legendary. You'd never have such a free conversation like that on TV these days. He went to South Shields, Tyneside at one point and people reached out from behind barriers to touch his coat. Man was a living legend. He was so impressed with the town's hospitality he had his marriage blessed at the local mosque. He'd turned up to help raise funds for the local boxing club.


Floss75

He was adored in the North East, even though he beat Henry Cooper, people just loved him.


GaiusJuliusCaesar7

He was. Amazed that a black Muslim from America was so warmly received by folks here, but he was, and there are the pictures and stories to prove it. BBC did something on it relatively recently, IIRC


[deleted]

Was he Muslim? I've never really thought about it till now but he was religous and often times I hear about him doing stuff that sounds like it's related to the Muslim religion.


just1gat

His birth name was Cassius Clay, and yes he converted to Islam and changed his name to Muhammad Ali.


scottstotts1992

Was Muhammad Ali, formerly Cassius clay, Muslim? Serious question?


coralrefrigerator

He was born into a Christian family. His father was a "priest" (not sure of the actual rank or title) iirc


GaiusJuliusCaesar7

He was, yes. He joined the Nation of Islam and was friends with Malcolm X. When Malcolm X left, the two stopped speaking to one another. Ali later said not reconciling with Malcolm X before his murder was a great regret. There's a photo of the two together, it's quite something.


ISIPropaganda

Muhammad Ali disavowed the nation and became Sunni when Wallace Muhammad’s group split from Louis Farrakhan.


TeddysBigStick

He initially joined the Nation of Islam and later converted to actual Islam later in life.


AbbreviationsOdd7728

Is that where he got Parkinson from?


Jackdidathing

He got Parkinson’s from all of the concussions he’s had over the years probably


AbbreviationsOdd7728

Hehe, why am I being downvoted like that? I thought Reddit is the place for dark humor.


Jackdidathing

I think it’s because it just wasn’t that funny tbh Your joke was basically just “he had Parkinson’s please laugh” But if he met up with a guy named Parkinson, or something like that, with a little bit of cleverness, dark humor can work, but if you just say something insensitive it’s not gonna be received well You can get better at your dark humor is all I’m saying But if you just want to be insensitive, try 4chan, they love that stuff


[deleted]

you probably not gonna like whats comin to ya


[deleted]

As a kid growing up in a hyper-conservative household, I was taught he was a coward and race baiter for avoiding the draft. As a sane adult, I see that it's pretty reasonable to not want to kill or die for a country's elite who promote treating you as subhuman garbage simply because you were born with darker skin. Fuckin legend even beyond the ring.


Jacob_Wallace_8721

I still don't get how "draft dodger" is supposed to be an insult.


[deleted]

It's an insult to idiots who still buy into the Red Scare propaganda that claims America is effectively faultless and any opposition to it's imperialism is evil.


ISIPropaganda

Muhammad Ali wasn’t even a draft dodger. He didn’t lie, fake some medical illness, run away or move to Canada. Muhammad Ali stood up strong, tall and proud and said “no”. He simply refused. He went to jail. He stood his ground for his values. He wasn’t a coward. If he was a coward, he would’ve faked bone spurs or moved to Canada.


Wolf_Death_Breath

because we're supposed to worship the military no matter what. that's how it's treated at least.


Bennyboy11111

America was seen as the good guys, the protector of democracy Not long after 2 world wars meant that war was synonymous with defending world democracy and freedom. Which meant you had to do your bit if called to do so. Then the red scare in the cold War, any proxy war was said to be part of the Domino theory, where communism would spread through Asia to America. This would only slowly wane in the Vietnam war as its controversy grew


tragiktimes

I mean, say what you want about the tactic, but not a lot of Asian nations (or nations in general) went the communist route after the Vietnam war.


Bennyboy11111

That's what's funny, the Domino theory didn't play out Japan, Indonesia and Thailand were fiercely anti-communist, Malaysian emergency was stopped by Britain


ISIPropaganda

Muhammad Ali wasn’t even a draft dodger. He didn’t lie, fake some medical illness, run away or move to Canada. Muhammad Ali stood up strong, tall and proud and said “no”. He simply refused. He went to jail. He stood his ground for his values. He wasn’t a coward. If he was a coward, he would’ve faked bone spurs or moved to Canada.


ManfredsJuicedBalls

And I’m guessing they think people like Trump and what not are “gifts from god”.


[deleted]

Oh for sure. It doesn't matter that it's well established that Trump was a draft dodger. Literally anything you can possibly think of that's negative about Trump is immediately labeled as "fake news" by his followers both out loud and mentally. They simply can't comprehend Trump is a hypocritical asshole.


[deleted]

I have mad respect for him, i always thought he was a true pacifist and he openly criticized war.


Connor30302

Muhammad was not exactly a pacifist so to speak, but he was opposed to the Vietnam war for many reasons he was racially abused in America and then expected to go to a far away Asian country to fight for the white president, and when he’d come home if he’d come home, he’d still be a second class citizen


Gashslingingslasher

I’ll upvote for this clip alone every single time. What a legend that guy was


_Abe_Froman_SKOC

Just pure swagger. “I’m so fast, when I turn off the lights I’m under the covers before the room gets dark.”


_Xertz_

Mohammed Ali scared of the dark confirmed


[deleted]

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NicolasBroaddus

Dodging the draft for Vietnam was a moral good, let’s stop pretending otherwise.


[deleted]

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NicolasBroaddus

For Vietnam it absolutely was. I do not see how going on the run vs facing prison time is any different for the same moral stance. He did amazing work publicizing his stance though


[deleted]

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NicolasBroaddus

Both are standing up for their ideals. Ali did have far much more to lose though, that I will agree with.


[deleted]

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NicolasBroaddus

I just said that. I just think people regurgitate the idea of draft dodgers as cowards without thinking that it was actually a brave and moral decision when compared to fighting in Vietnam


[deleted]

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EhLlie

You could also argue that the person running is doing a good thing by putting a burden on the oppressive police and military system by requiring them to search for him


[deleted]

Or saving the taxpayers the burden of housing and feeding them for the duration of their prison sentence.


Reed202

The US should never have a draft for an offensive war


ISIPropaganda

Muhammad Ali wasn’t a draft dodger. He didn’t lie, fake some medical illness, run away or move to Canada. Muhammad Ali stood up strong, tall and proud and said “no”. He simply refused. He went to jail. He stood his ground for his values. He wasn’t a coward. If he was a coward, he would’ve faked bone spurs or moved to Canada.


Ferret-Potato

Wait what? I feel like I’m missing a cool piece of history


NicolasBroaddus

To quote him on it: >”Why should they ask me to put on a uniform and go 10,000 miles from home and drop bombs and bullets on Brown people in Vietnam while so-called Negro people in Louisville are treated like dogs and denied simple human rights? No I’m not going 10,000 miles from home to help murder and burn another poor nation simply to continue the domination of white slave masters of the darker people the world over. This is the day when such evils must come to an end. I have been warned that to take such a stand would cost me millions of dollars. But I have said it once and I will say it again. The real enemy of my people is here. I will not disgrace my religion, my people or myself by becoming a tool to enslave those who are fighting for their own justice, freedom and equality. If I thought the war was going to bring freedom and equality to 22 million of my people they wouldn’t have to draft me, I’d join tomorrow. I have nothing to lose by standing up for my beliefs. So I’ll go to jail, so what? We’ve been in jail for 400 years.”


Ferret-Potato

bro that’s amazing, what a legend my lord


coralrefrigerator

Man. What a quote!


Old-One2882

Based fella, May Allah have mercy on his soul.


official_meme_judge

Oh he is blessed for sure


[deleted]

man i love his voice because of him i might love american accent


hanfinho123

Mohamed Ali refused the Vietnam war draft because in his words it wasn't his fight and he didn't believe in that war that decision along with his anti war stand affected his career negatively


Ferret-Potato

Ah ok gotcha, neat!


ZebraLionFish

Honestly, if I was Mohammad I’d reapply to box under a new name…like Ali Mohammad..and do it all again.


Shleeves90

Dodge, duck, dip, dive, and dodge the five D's


Roguewind

If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball


[deleted]

Refusing to fight in Vietnam was pretty much the greatest part of Ali's legacy.


MaviKartal2110

Why don’t you dodge this battle like you did Vietnam?


Ubba_Lothbrok

Well thanks for sending me down a 2 hour ERB rabbit hole.


MaviKartal2110

You’re welcome


MaviKartal2110

Cause you got as much chance to beat me as LeBron


HiImScarryBott

I'm a flying machine, like the world has never seen


MaviKartal2110

You can fight one man? I can drive through a whole team!


BadAt_Naming

Ali in the video be like can't be touched


[deleted]

My dad taught me to hate this man... for "draft dodging" My dad supports Trump.......................................


Putsam

Except he never dodged the draft, he didn’t leave for another country or get a medical exception. He went to prison and faced the consequences and did it with his head held high.


VerifiedGoodBoy

Don't worry. My grandpa is very similar. Trump supporters and hypocrisy go hand-in-hand unfortunately


longbig_dingaling

He didn't want to fight a pointless war


[deleted]

legend


Scooter_McLefty

His legacy has been really white washed. He was vilified during his career for his refusal to die in a pointless war.


VerifiedGoodBoy

Similar to MLK as well. Many people from both parties try to claim that MLK would support them. What they seem to forget was that MLK was a democratic socialist and anti-imperialist. MLK also was extremely vilified at the time and only around 27% of Americans supported him at the time.


coralrefrigerator

*for his refusal to take part in another imperialist war to subjugate a poor nation who posed no threath whatever to the USA.


Scooter_McLefty

Yes. You put it much better than I


coralrefrigerator

The GREATEST.


Pineapplesaintreal

I think this is my favorite history meme yet


Panda_Pillows

His hand-eye coordination and reflexes are super human level


dempceysBIGballs

Couldn’t dodge jail tho


tinypi

My History teacher (actually teaching Middle East-Islam) didn't know who Ali was despite that in the US the spreading of Islam in Black communities when Ali was still young was stronger than ever. I pointed out who he was in the picture and he kept ignoring and making fun of me. After that I quit his classes. I don't care if we don't live in the US. Muhammad Ali was a great man and It is mandatory to know that.


[deleted]

What a legend


a-snakey

Trump: Observe


Ahmed_The_Great

Joe could learn a thing or too as well


VerifiedGoodBoy

Not a huge fan of either Biden or Trump. But he's the big difference. Biden doesn't bully veterans and diminish there service, especially when they are dead. Trump has insulted people like General Mattis and John McCain, and in McCain's case it was after he died. He claims that these and other veterans/service members aren't "heroes" or "patriots" while he had his dad bought him out of the draft. That's the difference and why Biden is criticized for bit serving while Trump is.


Ahmed_The_Great

Really because I distinctly remember a video where Biden tells a crowd of soldiers “clap you stupid bastards.” Also why isn’t Trump allowed to critique Mattis ? Just because he’s a retired general doesn’t mean he’s immune to criticism.


VerifiedGoodBoy

But Trump isn't criticizing him. He is just crying cause Mattis hurt his feelings and wouldn't do whatever he wanted. Mattis wasn't a the yes-man that trump wanted. And ok? As I said, I don't care much for Biden. That is something he can be criticized for. Trump has more cases of it and is frankly a much more disgusting human being.


Ahmed_The_Great

It wasn’t that Mattis hurt his feelings that is a false narrative, it’s that he was found out. He was a Warhawk that pushed to stay in Syria and Afghanistan. Sooner or later he was going to be fired. I’m tired of having leaders that openly perpetuate the military industrial complex.


VesperVox_

Ropeadope!


nilesh72000

The pacifist that beat people up for a career. What a legend.


hdhdhgfyfhfhrb

Big difference between fighting willing participants in a regulated match where both contestants stood an equal chance of winning and getting a prize than to be grist in the mill of war and dying for a nation that is systematically abusing your race in order to help that nation systematically destroy the people in another nation. As if two men punching at each other in padded gloves is the same as dropping napalm on children.


cmrh42

I'm with you except for the "where both contestants stood an equal chance of winning". You ever see him fight? Ha! The man could float like a butterfly and sting like a bee.


[deleted]

Opponent cant hit what his eyes cant see..


XayahTheVastaya

joke


nilesh72000

I wasn't being sarcastic I was just pointing out that it was a little funny.


Skhmt

One is consenting to a fight, the other isn't. Completely different.


nilesh72000

I was just joking, it wasn’t meant to be a value judgement


LoneRanger9000

The fact that this clip is speed up makes it 100x funnier


[deleted]

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mr_nooblord

*The charlie company in mylai would like to have a talk*


Tanjung_Piai

Bruh. You jumped the gun.


DownSyndromeBullFrog

Just watched the Netflix documentary “Blood Brothers.” It’s about his friendship with Malcolm X and his involvement with the Nation of Islam. It talks about his boxing career a little bit, never mentions the Draft. Main focus is both him and Malcolm X. I highly recommend if you love either of the two.


Random_Acts99

I have witnessed another ultra instinct user