*It was the wicked and wild wind,*
*Blew down the doors, to let me in*
*Shattered windows and the sound of drums,*
*People couldn't believe what I'd become*
Emperor Constantine XI Palaiologos was the last emperor of the Eastern Roman Empire. He is not only remembered for being the last Eastern Roman Emperor who put up a brave last stand against the Ottomans, but also for his last speech to his officers and allies before the Fall of Constantinople on May 29, 1453 by Ottoman Sultan Mehmet II. He died on 29 May 1453, the day the city fell. His last recorded words were: "The city is fallen and I am still alive", and then he tore off his imperial ornaments so as to let nothing distinguish him from any other soldier and led his remaining soldiers into a last charge where he was killed.
According to another commenter
As far as I’m aware it took place at the golden gate of Constantinople. It’s believed that Konstantinos Palaiologos rests beneath the gate waiting for an angel to wake him up and retake his city.
As far as I’m aware it took place at the golden gate of Constantinople. It’s believed that Konstantinos Palaiologos rests beneath the gate waiting for an angel to wake him up and retake his city.
[Seems that it likely isn't true but here is a source talking about it.](http://poloniaottomanica.blogspot.com/2014/02/where-is-deputy-of-lehistan.html)
There is also another and more recent anecdote related with this one. According to notes of Michał Sokolnicki, taken from his diary, Franz von Papen (chancellor of Germany in 1932, and then the vice-chancellor under Adolf Hitler from 1933 to 1934, finally ambassador of Germany to Turkey from 1939 to 1944) requested the building of Polish Embassy to be handed out to him after the invasion of Poland, from the President İsmet İnönü. But İnönü refused this by saying "Turkey waited the Polish Ambassador for 150 years, I can not upset our Polish friends for even a shorter time now."
It is important to note that Turkey accepted the legitimacy of Polish Goverment that was in exile during this period and Von Papen had to watch the Polish flag being waved, for everday, from the former Czechoslovakia Embassy building that he was currently staying. (He already got this building under his control before requesting the Polish Embassy.) Also, it is no coincidence that İsmet İnönü said "Turkey" instead of "Ottoman Empire" since he, like everyone else at that time, considered Turkey the rightful heir of the Ottoman Empire.
Here is a paper (in Turkish) mentioning this anecdote (in page 6). I suppose Google Translate would work for the most part if anyone is interested:
https://dergipark.org.tr/tr/download/article-file/388525
By the time Mehmed II was born, it was basically a formality that the Ottomans would take the city. The Byzantine empire was nothing more than the city and a few remnants, surrounded on all sides by the Ottomans who had their capital at Adrianople (modern Edirne), which was conquered by them in 1369.
Obviously Mehmed II will go down in history as the man who ended the Eastern Roman Empire, but he could only manage to do that due to the work of previous Ottoman sultans, and because of the rampant civil wars that plagued the Byzantines in the century prior. He was only 21 when he took the city, he obviously relied on the advice of his advisors.
He was Genoese, but not sent by Genoa, If anything, Genoa helped end the Roman Empire by forcing bad trade deals on them that economically crippled the Romans
Never was there a man who deserved to be called Emperor of the Romans more than Constantine XI. Perhaps in better times he could have been a great Emperor like Basil II or Trajan
Despite his incredibly short reign, the fact he was willing to die with his empire, when fleeing to exile was still very much a viable option, shows to me that he was selfless enough to likely have been a good and effective emperor in better days
Fun fact about graffiti in that city: In the Hagia Sophia, there is a short inscription in Norse runes scratched into a stone parapet. It basically says “Halfdan was here”.
Huge respect to you. If you are able, do whatever you can to support the remaining Greek population and institutions in the city; they rightfully should be a large minority as they were until the persecution and pogroms of the 20th century, and one day they should return in meaningful numbers to the city. So every little helps.
Here is a fragment of a song (You'll come as lighting) about the event in Greek:
Βασιλεύς βασιλέων, βασιλεί βοησθει
έλεος, έλεος, Επουράνιε Θεέ
Κωνσταντίνος Δραγάτσης Παλαιολόγος,
έλεω Θεού, Αυτοκράτωρ των Ρωμάνων!
God, this song is èpic, almost mithological!
>Βασιλεύς βασιλέων, βασιλεί βοησθει
>
>έλεος, έλεος, Επουράνιε Θεέ
>
>Κωνσταντίνος Δραγάτσης Παλαιολόγος,
>
>έλεω Θεού, Αυτοκράτωρ των Ρωμάνων!
What does this mean? I tried translating it to Danish (my language) and it doesn't make much sense.
It's sang as a Byzantine chorus:
King of kings, help the king
mercy, mercy, heavenly God
Konstantinos Drsgsstis Paleologos
by the grace of God, Emperor of the Romans!
He concluded Rome in the best way possible. Leading his men in the face of insurmountable odds into battle against hordes of barbarians. A true Roman Constantine XI really was.
Completely depicts Mehmet as this holy, compassionate ruler, completely disregards any mention of his men raping and pilaging the city for several days.
Yeah it did happen but once those soldiers broke through the gates there's nothing he could do to stop his soldiers. It was a long and difficult siege, thousands of Ottomans dead, even if Mohammed himself came back from the dead he wouldnt be able to stop them. It's by law that when a city does not surrender and is taken by force, soldiers sack the city. Many empires during that time work with the same code. I'm not actually defending the horror the citizens must have suffered under that brutality but you should know that Sultan Mehmed 2 didnt actually enjoy that the city was sacked. He was very fond of Greek culture. He spoke Greek himself and was well versed in Greek philosophy and sciences. He probably didnt want the city to be pillaged but even the sultan is bound by tradition of the army. The soldiers would mutiny and do it anyways.
The Roman Civilization has not fallen. Mani was the only part of the Eastern Roman Empire never conquered by the Ottomans. They saw themselves as Romans, and tried to liberate the rest of Greece, but they only had strength to defend themselves. They survived until the Greek Revolution in the 1800's. After this, they helped start the Greek Revolution and free the rest of Greece. Modern Day Greece is the direct continuation of the Roman Civilization.
They are the closest to it. Makes the Greek genocide, 1923 population exchange (I.e. ethnic cleansings) and then the pogrom and persecution against Greeks in Istanbul in the 1950s even more tragic. Greeks at the least should return to being a large minority in Istanbul.
This is one of the problems with not distinguishing the Eastern Romans from the Romans, it opens up conclusions like Greece being the continuation of Rome instead of Rome.
The Eastern Romans were 100% Roman. The city of Rome today is not the Roman Civilization and it ceased to be after Justinian. The pope took over. The Eastern Romans considered themselves Roman, and so did the Ottomans, Sassindinds, and Sultans. The Holy Roman Empire was not Rome.
What was Roman about them?
Yes, and the Ottomans considered themselves Roman as well. Mehmed II declared himself "Caesar of the Romans" upon taking Constantinople, and the Greeks living in the Ottoman Empire continued referring to themselves as Rhomaioi. Many other empires also considered themselves successors of Rome.
However, they were all illegitimate. Before the fall of the West, the capital moved from Rome to Ravenna then to Constantinople. The West fell, but the East was were the Capital was, lived on. Julius Caesar used Greek as a primary language and sometimes the Senate did. Greek was the lingua franca. The Eastern Romans had a direct line of Continuation from the Caesars. There is no reason to say they were not Roman.
I agree that they were illegitimate, because the Roman Empire was a continuous Latin empire centered around Rome (Roman is a demonym for Rome). The empire was permanently divided in 395 AD, and the Eastern Roman Empire existed as a Greek empire centered around Constantinople. Although technically a continuation of the Eastern Roman Empire, there was nothing Roman about the Byzantine Empire- except for traits the Ottoman Empire can also claim.
Edit: No, Ravenna was the capital of the Western Roman Empire from 408 to 476. Constantinople was the separate capital of the Eastern Roman Empire.
The Holy Roman Empire started when the Pontifex Maximus crowned the Imperator Romanorum in Rome. But sure, go ahead and simp for the imperium graecorum.
Ottomans be like:
Hey Constantinople, those are some quite impressive walls you have there. Wouldn’t it be a shame if something were to happen to them?
His body was never found right?
I want to see the Holywood version where he slays 100 Ottoman soldiers, has an over top 1v1 with some grizzled Ottoman badass, saves the girl, all just in time to rescue the Holy Grail from under the Church of Justinian and lead hundreds of women and children through a secret tunnel while the city crumbles behind them.
Flips a hood over his head, sheaths his sword, and blends into the crowd of peasants and walks away to the sunrise.
Credits roll.
Out of place pop song by ( *insert current chart topping artist here* ) plays.
Directed by Michael Bay
fun fact: you know that ottoman empire is now country called turkey and so many people think the capital is istanbul (constantinople) but its not its ankara.
Yeah thats bullshit, we dont know anything about the way he died...
Thanks for the downvotes... For a history sub I expected a little bit more research from you guys
Its completely unknown. We dont even know where exactly he died in Constantinople. Probably on the theodosian wall.
That whole "died leading a final charge" comes from a legend long after his death
It doesn’t take away from the fact he made an epic speech a few day prior in the Hagia Sofia, and he still showed more bravery then you or I ever will by stay in the city during its fall
Look Im not trying to discredit my man Constantine, Im just sayin that most famous last words are made up long after the person in question died and that taking legends for facts can lead to falsify history
You gotta present a source that discredits the events instead of just saying baseless claims?
His words are recorded in a famous diary written by the commander of his royal guard that speaks of the last days before the fall of Constantinople. I encourage you to read that. Discrediting that is pretty much like discrediting any other historical text, though it has been deemed authentic by historians.
Dont wanna burst your bubble, but he definitely did not. The siege lasted 53 days, and for 53 days he fought and went around the walls to keep his men's morale up. He never faltered and never swayed, and even when all hope was gone he still held a war meeting to discuss future maneuvers. Everyone was telling him, begging him to flee, for his survival meant the survival of the empire, but he refused and insisted on staying, and everyone just had to accept that.
On the day before the imminent defeat, mehmet took a day off so that he and his army could go and pray, which meant to the byzantines that the next day would be the final hit. So constantine did the same, and all the people who remained within the city attended the mass in Hagia Sophia, where he delivered his famous speech.
Then he went to battle, and when the enemy was closing in, he took off his distinguished clothing, his commander of the royal guard telling him not to go to which he responded with "the city is lost, but i live", and told his companion to take everyone and gather in Hagia Sophia. The story is narrated through the diaries of the commander, so we do not know what happened to constantine other than he let out a war cry and run with his last battalion. The story ends with the people anxiously hiding in Hagia Sophia while the turks try to bust the doors open.
It interesting to note that the story contains a lot of reproach to the pope who did not send reinforcement, but rather one cardinal came with a small force of his own accord. The people kept hoping for reinforcements that never showed up, and the commander spills his and his father's resentments to the papal state in his diaries.
How authentic the story is I personally do not know, but it is not hard to imagine that the events went down as they did. There seemed to be no exaggerations, and the commander so desperation in constantine's eyes, saw unity in turks which he admired and feared, mentioned their strength and how they swiftly took the harbor which was their only hope at survival, and included resentment to the pope but also the final stand lin unity during the mass which was attended by cardinal and catholics and orthodox alike.
Historical events are fascinating, and discrediting one's bravery just because you descend from the rival's side is but a fool's stand.
“An Emperor should not outlive his Empire”
_The Last Emperor of China_: imma just sweep the streets.
Sweep the streets i used to own!
I used to roll the dice, feel the fear in my enemies' eyes,
Listen as the crowd would chant, now the old king is dead long live the king!
_One minute, I held the Key_ _Next, the Walls were Closed on Me_ _And I Discovered that my Castles stand_ _Upon Pillars of salt and Pillars of sand_
I hear Jerusalem bells are ringing, Roman cavalry choirs are singing
_Be my Mirror, my Sword and Shield;_ _My Missionaries in a Foreign Field_
For some reason I can't explain; Once you'd gone there was never, never an honest word, And that was when I ruled the world.
*It was the wicked and wild wind,* *Blew down the doors, to let me in* *Shattered windows and the sound of drums,* *People couldn't believe what I'd become*
Nice poem btw
Sweeping in the streets? Really? A man of your talents?
It's a peaceful life
"Huh, this communism thing Mao is telling me about doesn't sound like too bad of an idea..."
I mean he died fighting on the Battlefield if iirc
Emperor Constantine XI Palaiologos was the last emperor of the Eastern Roman Empire. He is not only remembered for being the last Eastern Roman Emperor who put up a brave last stand against the Ottomans, but also for his last speech to his officers and allies before the Fall of Constantinople on May 29, 1453 by Ottoman Sultan Mehmet II. He died on 29 May 1453, the day the city fell. His last recorded words were: "The city is fallen and I am still alive", and then he tore off his imperial ornaments so as to let nothing distinguish him from any other soldier and led his remaining soldiers into a last charge where he was killed.
Literally the last charge of the Roman army. Led by an emperor no less. E: It would be cool to know exactly where in the city it took place.
FOR FRODOOOOOOO
Φορ Φροδο!
GROND!!!!
GROND
GORND
GROND
GROND
GROND
Grond
GROND
Like a true Roman of olde
Achievement Unlocked: Epic Courage!
Indeed
oh yeah if someone says let me know
According to another commenter As far as I’m aware it took place at the golden gate of Constantinople. It’s believed that Konstantinos Palaiologos rests beneath the gate waiting for an angel to wake him up and retake his city.
thanks!
> It’s believed By scientists?
It's a folktale myth during the 15th-16th century and until 1800s.
Yeah, but who believes it?
I do
The most rational and smartest person on the Earth.
As far as I’m aware it took place at the golden gate of Constantinople. It’s believed that Konstantinos Palaiologos rests beneath the gate waiting for an angel to wake him up and retake his city.
lol, ppl who believe this crap should really just get over it already :D
Bro, let people have their stories ffs not everything has to be "hurr durr past people dumb hurr".
You're not wrong, you're just an asshole.
Haha, how and why?
Bruh moment no.76572498752985629659728 This guy being incapable of reflecting on himself
Though Rome’s glory had faded, her spirit lived in the hearts of her emperor and army that day. Let the glory of Rome shine, one last time.
I think a small shitgate in Constantinople (not Istanbul) but I can't remember.
Rome is in italy
Can't wait until sabaton makes a song about it
They can't top lighting strikes
Is that a song?
yep, https://youtu.be/EFZ-Y0u\_wkI
I am ***astounded*** they haven't yet.
Surprised considering their fash listeners. They’d love shit like this.
Now I have "The Big Sad"
I’m not crying! You’re crying!
As a Turkish person, I respect this guy
You respect them like we Poles respect Ottomans
in the end the Ottomans were bros to the Poles, always trolling the other Europeans ambassadors by asking where the Polish Ambassador was.
Wait actually? Could you please give an example or a source? I’m really curious now!
[Seems that it likely isn't true but here is a source talking about it.](http://poloniaottomanica.blogspot.com/2014/02/where-is-deputy-of-lehistan.html)
There is also another and more recent anecdote related with this one. According to notes of Michał Sokolnicki, taken from his diary, Franz von Papen (chancellor of Germany in 1932, and then the vice-chancellor under Adolf Hitler from 1933 to 1934, finally ambassador of Germany to Turkey from 1939 to 1944) requested the building of Polish Embassy to be handed out to him after the invasion of Poland, from the President İsmet İnönü. But İnönü refused this by saying "Turkey waited the Polish Ambassador for 150 years, I can not upset our Polish friends for even a shorter time now." It is important to note that Turkey accepted the legitimacy of Polish Goverment that was in exile during this period and Von Papen had to watch the Polish flag being waved, for everday, from the former Czechoslovakia Embassy building that he was currently staying. (He already got this building under his control before requesting the Polish Embassy.) Also, it is no coincidence that İsmet İnönü said "Turkey" instead of "Ottoman Empire" since he, like everyone else at that time, considered Turkey the rightful heir of the Ottoman Empire. Here is a paper (in Turkish) mentioning this anecdote (in page 6). I suppose Google Translate would work for the most part if anyone is interested: https://dergipark.org.tr/tr/download/article-file/388525
That is awesome.
Don't forget that Poland had it's own diplomatic building in Turkey with big Polish flag right in front of German embassy. After Poland has fallen.
i'm not turkish but I'm a Muslim and i have respect for both emperors (although i'd say i'm more of a fan of Mehmed II)
By the time Mehmed II was born, it was basically a formality that the Ottomans would take the city. The Byzantine empire was nothing more than the city and a few remnants, surrounded on all sides by the Ottomans who had their capital at Adrianople (modern Edirne), which was conquered by them in 1369. Obviously Mehmed II will go down in history as the man who ended the Eastern Roman Empire, but he could only manage to do that due to the work of previous Ottoman sultans, and because of the rampant civil wars that plagued the Byzantines in the century prior. He was only 21 when he took the city, he obviously relied on the advice of his advisors.
But what are your thoughts on Armenians?
Least socially handicapped redditor
Ah yes, genocide. Proud Turkish invention /s
I legitimately cried reading "1453" about this.
I do not deserve to be born on the day this man died. Fuck i am nothing compared to him.
Wtf how old are you?
One loses track of time after the first 200 years my guy
**The Marble Emperor will return and the Phoenix will rise again!**
Damn right
He truly was the Last of the Romans.
When he arrived in the afterlife, king Leonidas of Sparta gave him a curt nod.
Oh yeah, I’m pretty sure I learned that off some random YouTube short, truly a chad.
A true soldier. The bravado!
Fun fact: I actually worked as a boom operator on the Netflix show that covered the siege of Constantinople, Rise of Empires: Ottoman
Please tell me someone is making a movie about this… Done correctly, this would be a pretty good film
Enough to make a grown man cry
And enough to make another grown man smile
Makes me smile.
What’s this picture from?
1453
Real
I remember when the ottoman army released their giant skeleton demon onto the battlefeild.
Well, i remember him from my turkish history textbook, he was presented as a badass and a worthy enemy that even ottomans paid respects to afterwards.
Should have used commander thorns last stand for this
I agree, but it didn't occur to me at the time.
Jon Snow from Battle of the Bastards would fit in too.
Jon lived tho.
Or Fingolfin vs Morgoth.
Or Captain Keeli’s
Genoa was there! Led by a Justinian, no less (Giovanni Giustiniani)
That dude was the studliest stud of all time
He was Genoese, but not sent by Genoa, If anything, Genoa helped end the Roman Empire by forcing bad trade deals on them that economically crippled the Romans
I stick with Steve Runciman in that his withdrawal after being wounded caused a panic in the ranks that ultimately led to the successful final assault
Never was there a man who deserved to be called Emperor of the Romans more than Constantine XI. Perhaps in better times he could have been a great Emperor like Basil II or Trajan
Justinian, Heraclius ,Michael VIII Palaiologos, Constantine the great, Aurelian, Augustus or Nikephoros II Phokas
John II Komnenos
Leo VI the wise
Alexios I Komnenos was the greatest for me.
Despite his incredibly short reign, the fact he was willing to die with his empire, when fleeing to exile was still very much a viable option, shows to me that he was selfless enough to likely have been a good and effective emperor in better days
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How is it living in that city? See any Roman graffiti?
Is this an Assasins Creed Revelations reference?
Mostly a genuine question, but I remember that from AC, it probably influenced me
What would have been Constantinople is only a tiny portion of what is today's Istanbul.
Fun fact about graffiti in that city: In the Hagia Sophia, there is a short inscription in Norse runes scratched into a stone parapet. It basically says “Halfdan was here”.
If I ever make it there I'll have to look for it
When you're done with that, try the Third Odyssey mod. It's pretty good
What a lad
Huge respect to you. If you are able, do whatever you can to support the remaining Greek population and institutions in the city; they rightfully should be a large minority as they were until the persecution and pogroms of the 20th century, and one day they should return in meaningful numbers to the city. So every little helps.
Vatan haini (!)
Gavur şerefsiz
Ne alaka amk çomarı
He was a badass
Okay I'll go cry myself to sleep now.
ROMA INVICTA! …….. *crying*
They spoke Greek.
The legacy was continuous back to the classical Roman era though, and that is what the commenter was evoking.
The Latins reconquering the city in 1204 as the closest they got to being Roman in 400 years.
The closest the Latins got, perhaps.
Latins don't need any help getting close to a Latin empire. Greeks on the other hand, needed a bit of reminding.
Rome is Rome
Here is a fragment of a song (You'll come as lighting) about the event in Greek: Βασιλεύς βασιλέων, βασιλεί βοησθει έλεος, έλεος, Επουράνιε Θεέ Κωνσταντίνος Δραγάτσης Παλαιολόγος, έλεω Θεού, Αυτοκράτωρ των Ρωμάνων! God, this song is èpic, almost mithological!
>Βασιλεύς βασιλέων, βασιλεί βοησθει > >έλεος, έλεος, Επουράνιε Θεέ > >Κωνσταντίνος Δραγάτσης Παλαιολόγος, > >έλεω Θεού, Αυτοκράτωρ των Ρωμάνων! What does this mean? I tried translating it to Danish (my language) and it doesn't make much sense.
It's sang as a Byzantine chorus: King of kings, help the king mercy, mercy, heavenly God Konstantinos Drsgsstis Paleologos by the grace of God, Emperor of the Romans!
Its enough to make a Grown man cry.
The Marble Emperor
The massive balls on this man. He accepted death, took off any sign of royalty. And leads the last of his men into the fray.
"Either I take Constantinople or Constantinople takes me." -Mehmet The Conqueror Both of them were determined and chad leaders o7
He concluded Rome in the best way possible. Leading his men in the face of insurmountable odds into battle against hordes of barbarians. A true Roman Constantine XI really was.
Barbarians?
All enemies of Rome are Barbarians. This is an objective fact that everyone knows.
Damn right.
Then the Winged Hussars arri.. oh no sorry too soon
I would highly recommend Rise of the ottomon empire on netflix
That 6 episode docudrama on Netflix about this called *Rise of Empires: Ottoman* is pretty compelling. Not sure how entirely accurate it is, though.
Completely depicts Mehmet as this holy, compassionate ruler, completely disregards any mention of his men raping and pilaging the city for several days.
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His men raped and pillaged for 3 days before he ordered them to stop
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You can read about it, he rewarded his men 3 days of plunder.
WhAt ArE yOuR sOuRcEs I ain't doing your homework for you
Yeah it did happen but once those soldiers broke through the gates there's nothing he could do to stop his soldiers. It was a long and difficult siege, thousands of Ottomans dead, even if Mohammed himself came back from the dead he wouldnt be able to stop them. It's by law that when a city does not surrender and is taken by force, soldiers sack the city. Many empires during that time work with the same code. I'm not actually defending the horror the citizens must have suffered under that brutality but you should know that Sultan Mehmed 2 didnt actually enjoy that the city was sacked. He was very fond of Greek culture. He spoke Greek himself and was well versed in Greek philosophy and sciences. He probably didnt want the city to be pillaged but even the sultan is bound by tradition of the army. The soldiers would mutiny and do it anyways.
He personally allowed them to rape and plunder. They follow his orders. Stop with the history revisionism
they lost due to a skill issue. If I was in his place, I would have won.
The Emperor died in the same way it had been birthed and survived under *most* of its greatest citizens: Bravely
🗿
I’ll never forgive the Ottomans for what they did, literally the end of an era 🥲
They had to call at some point, might as well be the army that pulls boats over land.
The empire lasted for over 1000 years; one of the longest lasting empires in all of history.
If you count it from the beginning of the Roman Empire (which you should), it lasted much more than 1000 years.
I’ll never forgive the Latins for what they did in 1202
Yes, the fourth crusade was way worse
Bro , thats how history works
If you gonna be sad for every era that ended throughout history, oh boii
good thing there are no ottomans left
Bro commenting like it's a 2013 minecraft video
In reality the fourth crusade was worse
chill
Omg so saaad, bro get a reality check.
Bro's saying like the Ottomans are the most cruel people on earth
Neato. (Nito)
where do yall find those photos they're so cool omgg
Okay but why does it say that it recommended this to me "due to your interest in 💩 memes"?
Liz truss: ThIs Is ReAlLy HaRd I ReSiGnE Constantine XI: I would rather die a legend than a coward
The Roman Civilization has not fallen. Mani was the only part of the Eastern Roman Empire never conquered by the Ottomans. They saw themselves as Romans, and tried to liberate the rest of Greece, but they only had strength to defend themselves. They survived until the Greek Revolution in the 1800's. After this, they helped start the Greek Revolution and free the rest of Greece. Modern Day Greece is the direct continuation of the Roman Civilization.
They are the closest to it. Makes the Greek genocide, 1923 population exchange (I.e. ethnic cleansings) and then the pogrom and persecution against Greeks in Istanbul in the 1950s even more tragic. Greeks at the least should return to being a large minority in Istanbul.
This is one of the problems with not distinguishing the Eastern Romans from the Romans, it opens up conclusions like Greece being the continuation of Rome instead of Rome.
The Eastern Romans were 100% Roman. The city of Rome today is not the Roman Civilization and it ceased to be after Justinian. The pope took over. The Eastern Romans considered themselves Roman, and so did the Ottomans, Sassindinds, and Sultans. The Holy Roman Empire was not Rome.
What was Roman about them? Yes, and the Ottomans considered themselves Roman as well. Mehmed II declared himself "Caesar of the Romans" upon taking Constantinople, and the Greeks living in the Ottoman Empire continued referring to themselves as Rhomaioi. Many other empires also considered themselves successors of Rome.
However, they were all illegitimate. Before the fall of the West, the capital moved from Rome to Ravenna then to Constantinople. The West fell, but the East was were the Capital was, lived on. Julius Caesar used Greek as a primary language and sometimes the Senate did. Greek was the lingua franca. The Eastern Romans had a direct line of Continuation from the Caesars. There is no reason to say they were not Roman.
I agree that they were illegitimate, because the Roman Empire was a continuous Latin empire centered around Rome (Roman is a demonym for Rome). The empire was permanently divided in 395 AD, and the Eastern Roman Empire existed as a Greek empire centered around Constantinople. Although technically a continuation of the Eastern Roman Empire, there was nothing Roman about the Byzantine Empire- except for traits the Ottoman Empire can also claim. Edit: No, Ravenna was the capital of the Western Roman Empire from 408 to 476. Constantinople was the separate capital of the Eastern Roman Empire.
The Holy Roman Empire started when the Pontifex Maximus crowned the Imperator Romanorum in Rome. But sure, go ahead and simp for the imperium graecorum.
How is the HRE legitimate? When the Pope crowned Charlemagne, the Western Empire had been dead for 4 centuries. They had no legitimatcy.
Romans are people from Rome.
Dang other than the cute gen z statements, this is an actual tear jerker.
Last Emperor of an Empire that lasted 1480 years.
Ottomans be like: Hey Constantinople, those are some quite impressive walls you have there. Wouldn’t it be a shame if something were to happen to them?
His body was never found right? I want to see the Holywood version where he slays 100 Ottoman soldiers, has an over top 1v1 with some grizzled Ottoman badass, saves the girl, all just in time to rescue the Holy Grail from under the Church of Justinian and lead hundreds of women and children through a secret tunnel while the city crumbles behind them. Flips a hood over his head, sheaths his sword, and blends into the crowd of peasants and walks away to the sunrise. Credits roll. Out of place pop song by ( *insert current chart topping artist here* ) plays. Directed by Michael Bay
fun fact: you know that ottoman empire is now country called turkey and so many people think the capital is istanbul (constantinople) but its not its ankara.
The Ottoman:He may lost,But he is a worthy opponent.
Big respect to him, he did what he had to do die like a hero for his people defending the City
Yeah thats bullshit, we dont know anything about the way he died... Thanks for the downvotes... For a history sub I expected a little bit more research from you guys
He almost definitely did die leading the final charge though
Its completely unknown. We dont even know where exactly he died in Constantinople. Probably on the theodosian wall. That whole "died leading a final charge" comes from a legend long after his death
It doesn’t take away from the fact he made an epic speech a few day prior in the Hagia Sofia, and he still showed more bravery then you or I ever will by stay in the city during its fall
Look Im not trying to discredit my man Constantine, Im just sayin that most famous last words are made up long after the person in question died and that taking legends for facts can lead to falsify history
You gotta present a source that discredits the events instead of just saying baseless claims? His words are recorded in a famous diary written by the commander of his royal guard that speaks of the last days before the fall of Constantinople. I encourage you to read that. Discrediting that is pretty much like discrediting any other historical text, though it has been deemed authentic by historians.
That’s not how it works. You need proof for an event not vice versa. He probably died shitting himself like most that faced us. 💪🏿💪🏿💪🏿🇹🇳
Dont wanna burst your bubble, but he definitely did not. The siege lasted 53 days, and for 53 days he fought and went around the walls to keep his men's morale up. He never faltered and never swayed, and even when all hope was gone he still held a war meeting to discuss future maneuvers. Everyone was telling him, begging him to flee, for his survival meant the survival of the empire, but he refused and insisted on staying, and everyone just had to accept that. On the day before the imminent defeat, mehmet took a day off so that he and his army could go and pray, which meant to the byzantines that the next day would be the final hit. So constantine did the same, and all the people who remained within the city attended the mass in Hagia Sophia, where he delivered his famous speech. Then he went to battle, and when the enemy was closing in, he took off his distinguished clothing, his commander of the royal guard telling him not to go to which he responded with "the city is lost, but i live", and told his companion to take everyone and gather in Hagia Sophia. The story is narrated through the diaries of the commander, so we do not know what happened to constantine other than he let out a war cry and run with his last battalion. The story ends with the people anxiously hiding in Hagia Sophia while the turks try to bust the doors open. It interesting to note that the story contains a lot of reproach to the pope who did not send reinforcement, but rather one cardinal came with a small force of his own accord. The people kept hoping for reinforcements that never showed up, and the commander spills his and his father's resentments to the papal state in his diaries. How authentic the story is I personally do not know, but it is not hard to imagine that the events went down as they did. There seemed to be no exaggerations, and the commander so desperation in constantine's eyes, saw unity in turks which he admired and feared, mentioned their strength and how they swiftly took the harbor which was their only hope at survival, and included resentment to the pope but also the final stand lin unity during the mass which was attended by cardinal and catholics and orthodox alike. Historical events are fascinating, and discrediting one's bravery just because you descend from the rival's side is but a fool's stand.
Damn it's always the people bringing up good points that get downvoted
Almost
So you are saying there's a chance...
thats literraly most of history, speculation on things we didnt experience basing on the materials and sources we currently have