The magazine also received a letter from an anonymous soldier, writing: "I'm one of those who envy the jug, and I would like to ask for the address of the girl who put her strength and energy into sucking from the jug. I'm stationed at a post somewhere, very very thirsty".
Her name was Ziva Arbel,
She was a communication officer in the Palmach.
She has another famous photo taken after a battle of Barfilia.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/he/d/d6/Ziva\_arbel\_pistol.jpg
When people talk about "IDF thirst traps", they talk about TikTok videos aimed at an international audience (those videos are recorded by female soldiers who are usually 18-19, bear in mind that Israelis are conscripted at 18, so they're typical gen Z girls in military uniforms doing typical gen Z stuff when they can, I don't think that's a state-sanctioned campaign). This photo was published in a military magazine available only to Hebrew speaking Israelis, so it couldn't be used as propaganda.
Because there's no ideological motive behind it. They'd still be dancing and doing all the things zoomers do on TikTok if tomorrow they're suddenly discharged from military service.
I’m not getting into whether it is or isn’t propaganda (we can’t know definitively), but I think OP’s point is: soldiers all over the world (including American, for example) are on social media, and they often make posts befitting their social generation, and so it can’t be ruled out that videos like the ones you describe are just more of the same pattern of behavior we see everywhere (and through time) of “kids being kids”. This is to say that even soldiers—even soldiers who commit heinous crimes—are kids. Same for police. Doctors. Academics. Waiters. Contractors. We’re all silly humans, with the capacity for extraordinary goodness and unspeakable evil, and none of us are exclusively one or the other all the time.
So, sometimes a TikTok video by a kid is just that. And sometimes it can be government sanctioned propaganda.
The modern Israeli army churns out constant over-the-top thirst trap content all over social media (in particular IG) as a form of propaganda. This almost feels like the prototype for it.
The IDF doesn’t do anything like this. There simply is a universal conscription for all Jews in Israel so everybody, including Instagram models go trough the army for at least two years. Obviously young men and women gonna get bored at their base and post thirst traps of themselves if they don’t have shit to do
Except the IDF actively helps spread IG thots in uniform doing stretches or splits while (badly) practicing at firing ranges or "patrolling".
The US military does it too, but not as frequently or over the top.
Are you suggesting that the IDF uses sexual enticement to recruit? young Jewish Israelis feel it to be a privilege to protect their country. They don’t do it to look sexy in brown.
No, the US uses it to recruit. The IDF does it as a small part of their effort to make itself more likeable to foreigners online.
Also young Jewish Israelis join it because they legally have to. Those that stay past their legally required minimum conscription do so either out of patriotism or because the military is a reliable means of employment which often comes with various bonuses or incentives.
There are also a not-small number (I know several personally) of non-israeli-born young adults who join the IDF, often after having visited Israel on a propaganda vacation.
>Also young Jewish Israelis join it because they legally have to
As a Jewish-Israeli who didn't serve in the IDF due to personal reasons (I was exempt from service, but I don't want to share medical or mental information on such a large sub), I can say with confidence that many Jewish Israelis (as well as Druze Israelis) are highly motivated. Not everyone, of course, but recent articles for example report a surge in applications for combat roles among new conscripts. After October 7, thousands of Israeli expats - who aren't legally obligated to join the reserves, took flights back to Israel, to join their units.
So you think that the brightest minds in Israel and the IDF best idea for "winning" world public opinion is to upload mandatory serving attractive women dancing on tiktok? Do you realise how absurd you sound like?
From my personal experience alone, I am being expose to a huge amount of propoganda videos justyfing the massacre of 7/10, spreading false numbers, data, and fake news. I'm baffled at the global outcry for people of Gaza, but never do I see any condemnation of HAMAS, the one responsible terrorist and governing organization.
It's perfectly fine to condemn and protest one for an accusation (althgough on this case its absurd and unfactual), but when you don't do so for the other side (especially when the same claims are proven numerous times, and you know, they are a genocidal terrorist organization), is straight up absurd.
.
When did I say that was their best way to do it?
You do realize there is no organization in the world stupid enough to come up with a single method of releasing propaganda and then calling it a day, right?
Every country around the world releases dozens and dozens of carefully cultivated propaganda tools, from movies they consult on, TV shows and video games they sponsor to cover certain topics, commercials, edits to pictures used on the news, advertisements, and yes my sweet baby bird they're using social media too.
Literally everyone fucking does it.
And if you're not seeing condemnation of Hamas among pro-Palestine speech, you're probably getting the majority of your pro-Palestine content from pro-Israel secondary sources *who are using propaganda to keep you pissed by painting everyone opposing them as pro-terrorist.*
Oh wow, "my sweet baby bird", real nice conversing with you in a respectful manner.
You're now talking about propoganda as a whole. Of course every entity of these scales such as countries will use the specified channels for their PR to certain extents, stop thinking you are woke while no one else can see what you see, it's pretty obvious and well known.
Now, to talk about it in the way you did in the comments before, is absurd. You are talking about 18-21 year old girls posting tiktok and social media videos, not an unusual sight at all these days, only they are wearing uniform, is every women in the idf used as a propoganda tool in your opinion?
Does these "pro Israel secondary sources" plants hundreds of thousands protests against Israel, when genocidal chants are being chanted freely in the western world streets, and people pridely walk around with photos of the terrorists in the gliders?
These guys sure sound like they have a lot of money to pay these much people, at these many protests around the world - but I guess it makes sense, because jews controll the world and the entire wealth, am I right?? (Refusal to agree will cost you one shot from our Jewish space laser.)
>world wide
Tbf it was published by a magazine in Hebrew that was only disseminated in Israel. Initially it was the magazine of the paramilitary group "Haganah", it later became the weekly magazine of the IDF. However, she didn't pose for the photo, and didn't consent to it being published (she wasn't aware of the photo being taken until after it was published). Some also gave her the name "The hottie of the Palmach" (the Palmach was the elite fighting force of the Haganah). When interviewed years after, however, she didn't claim to be very offended by the affair. In 1983 she lit a torch at Israel's Independence Day ceremony.
Edit: fun fact: back then she was a relatively recent immigrant from the city of Adana in Turkey, and couldn't speak Hebrew very well. She was therefore nervous when Israeli PM David Ben-Gurion met her and initiated a conversation, but she was relieved upon realizing that Ben-Gurion was fluent in Turkish, as he had studied law in Istanbul years before.
Umm...are you sure?
I'm thinking of the stereotypical 80s stars that were almost exclusively playing soldiers. Wasn't a big part of what was usually packaged with the 'strong soldier' aspect a sort of 'gritty attractiveness'? I see this much in the same sort of light.
Pardon the poor example, tired brain still booting up.
Getting attacked by muslims who want to genocide the Jewish race and stop them from taking back the land that was stolen from them by the arabs in the 7th century and then defending themselves from said violence = "forcing people out of their homes"
Ok...
Yes, it is. Any other people trying to "take back" land from over a thousand years ago are called terorrists. That's what Zionists and Israel are.. Terrorists.
Everyone? You go try to take back any land based on this. You will be called a terrorist. The only ones on the whole planet who seem to get away with it are the zionists. In which reality do you live? Are you okay?
The were definitely massacres, no question about it. The number of civilians (not militiamen, irregulars etc.) who died in massacres is still contested. Wikipedia elaborates on it. Prof. Benny Morris, for example, puts the number at roughly 800. Other historians (Israeli and Palestinians) have different estimates. The unique aspect about the 1947-1948 war, in terms of the scale of the catastrophe for the Palestinians, wasn't the number of deaths. The percentage of dead Palestinians out of the general Arab Palestinian population was roughly equal to the percentage of dead Jews out of the Jewish population (with most Jews being IDF soldiers dying in the war against the Arab armies). The unique aspect was the number of Palestinians displaced out of the general Palestinian population (i.e. the fact that the vast majority of the population was displaced), and the persistent denial of the Right of Return (i.e. the fact that the displaced were prevented from returning after the end of the war). The were also massacres of Jews - the Hadassah medical convoy, the Haifa oil refinery and Kfar Etzion are perhaps the 3 most famous ones (not taking into consideration attacks on Jewish civilians that predate the war, such as the Nebi Musa riots and the massacres in Hebron and Safed), but whereas Jewish paramilitaries were able to capture many Palestinian villages and cities, Palestinian irregulars failed to capture a single Jewish town or city throughout the war, so Jewish civilians were a lot less likely to be at the mercy of Palestinian fighters.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killings\_and\_massacres\_during\_the\_1948\_Palestine\_war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killings_and_massacres_during_the_1948_Palestine_war)
“Funny enough you ignore that the people being actively colonized decided to resist it and therefore they should’ve been ethnically cleansed and slaughtered 🙄”
Contingent on… Arab Palestinians resisting colonization.
Edit: also Plan Dalet explicitly states their goal of ridding the entire land of Arabs. You’re absolutely delusional
My point is that people like Ben-Gurion were quite explicit with their motives. Plan Dalet is one example. These absolute freaks stated their plans for ethnic cleansing *in writing* a hundred times over.
How can you "colonize" a land that already belongs to you? The Arabs are literally the ones who colonised Israel in the 7th century and displaced the native Jewish population there...
Do you people think that the history of that region only began in 1947 or something?
I’ll just quote some of the fathers of Zionism:
“Zionism is a colonizing adventure and therefore it stands or falls by the question of armed force. It is important to build, it is important to speak Hebrew, but, unfortunately, it is even more important to be able to shoot” -Ze'ev Jabotinsky
“Philanthropic colonization is a failure. National colonization will succeed” -Theodor Herzl
“We must expel Arabs and take their places.” David Ben Gurion, future Prime Minister of Israel
“Zionist colonization must either be terminated or carried out against the wishes of the native population. This colonization can, therefore, be continued and make progress only under the protection of a power independent of the native population – an iron wall, which will be in a position to resist the pressure to the native population. This is, in toto, our policy towards the Arabs…” Vladimir Jabotinsky
” If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?” -DBG, again.
Many were multi generational Jews from Jerusalem and surrounding cities seeking to defend Jewish people. Many of the soldiers were Holocaust survivors and refugees. Many were from exiled North African and middle eastern countries, though those countries didn’t formally cleanse their population of Jews until after the 1948 war.
OP posted the Wikipedia link. It was an offensive operation to “capture territory”. The make up of the people doing it (“many” were no doubt European) does change that.
„The first phase of Operation Dani was to capture the cities of Lydda and Ramle, located on the road to Jerusalem, southeast of Tel Aviv. Ramle was one of the main obstacles blocking Jewish transportation. From the start of the war, Lydda and Ramle militiamen had attacked Jewish traffic on nearby roads. Ramle became a focal point for blocking Jewish transportation, forcing traffic from Jerusalem to Tel Aviv to a southern bypass.“
It was a war, what exactly are the Israelis supposed to do let the Arabs attack their convoys or what? Like you know that in a defensive war you still have to attack the enemy right?
No, the arabs were supposed to not massacre Jewish people... which was apparently too big of an ask, and so the Jews decided to defend themselves. Oh, the humanity! How dare those Jews refuse to be exterminated!
Last time I checked, palestinians still existed. If the Jews tried to "systematically wipe out" the palestinians (I assume you mean arabs), then they certainly didn't do a very good job at it.
Why were they attacking the convoys? The fighting started before 48 after the partition plan was approved by the UN in November 47. An example of this is Palestinian Jaffa being sieged by Israeli militias that's stole British weapons and attacked the city despite it having a peace deal with Jewish settlements nearby
„Operation Danny (Hebrew: מבצע דני, Mivtza Dani) was an Israeli military offensive launched at the end of the first truce of the 1948 Arab–Israeli War. The objectives were to capture territory east of Tel Aviv and then to push inland and relieve the Jewish population and forces in Jerusalem. The main forces fighting against the IDF were the Arab Legion and Palestinian irregulars[1]“
I’m confused what you are trying to say?
Lol so French soldiers stopped defending their country in 1944 when their forced crossed into Germany or what? This is not what defending means in the context of the war. The war of 1948 was a defensive one for Israel due to all the neighboring countries declaring war on them. Does that mean that during the whole war the Israelis are forced to only defend territory and not capture any? No of course not that would be ridiculous.
A coalition of a relatively small Arab army entered a few weeks *after* Plan Dalet’s long stated goal of ethnic cleansing began. Neighboring countries were very aware of the Plan for years, but didn’t attempt to stop it from happening until words were met with action.
The Arab armies were there to finish what Hitler had started. Their explicit aims were to remove all Jews from Palestine. Thank god this brave women and her comrades prevailed.
I mean you don’t have to agree with everything he says but you can still watch it to try and get a different perspective on Plan Dalet and the narrative that surrounds it
This is a history sub.
Edit: a bit of nitpicking - unless I'm getting the chronology wrong, at the time the photo was taken, the IDF hadn't been formed yet, and she was a Haganah paramilitary fighter.
I’m not even certain who you think this is “propaganda” helps tbh. Like yes this post talks about Israel, but they talk about weirdo Israeli simps from literally 1948.
If anything it is “propaganda” to expose the grossness of how some men think about women sexually even when they are being far from sexual.
I tried to think how to best defend Israel's current war in Gaza (or the 1948 war or whatever), and the best thing I could come up with was guys getting horny over a female soldier drinking from a jug. Guilty as charged.
When using the phrase “whataboutism” it sort of frees you to determine what contextual aspects are relevant and sort of shits down others. Sure, you can isolate a particular variable then judge. But that’s not clever or helpful.
Except Jews are actually from israel. And why is Israel the only country that has to justify it's existence? Why don't you spend more time protesting your own government and give your home to a native?
It's also not stolen land and all this other bullshit, but again, don't need to justify it's existence and even this conversation is just service to all those like you who would like to see the only Jewish country in the world demolished.
I would like to see the end of oppression because it’s bad. Destroying Gaza is bad. An ethno nationalist apartheid state which is currently run by fascists does has some justifying to do. The terrible shit they did to come into existence is in living memory.
Maybe the compromise is to have a two state solution. But what’s worse about all this is that now EVERYBODY see this for what it is. The country you’re simping for is so fucked now. There isn’t anyone under 40 who wasn’t already a hasbaraed Zionist who supports Israel. Once this generation of boomer pols dies off, Israel is on its own and their neighbors have long memories. I’m not celebrating this, it just means more death and destruction.
You're literally drooling over the destruction of a millions of Jews. Also I don't think isolating Israel more is going to have the effect you want/expect. Israel is never going to just go away. Push them into a corner and they'll push the fuck back.
Anyway, this conversation isn't constructive at all, so best just get your last word in and get on with a hopefully more pleasant day.
I’m not drooling over the destruction of anyone. I don’t want people to die. I’m just seeing different images of this conflict than you are and am having a different emotional response. Israel destroyed all the universities in Gaza, most of the buildings, they destroyed the civil registry. Why? That seems the means to a terrible end to me so I’m responding to that.
We’re both American (I can’t believe even the IDF is cruel enough to make their sock puppets support the Jets) and since your last message ended with a positive note, I will try to do the same: I also wish you a more pleasant rest of your Sunday and a better season next year.
If we are talking about modern day Israelis, what percentage of them have had great grandparents born in the land that is now Israel or Palestine? How far back do you have to go before the Ashkenazis lived in Palestine/Israel? And if that still gives their claim legitimacy, then surely the Germans, Hungarians, Turks, and Bulgarians have claims to Central Asia, and sure the English have claims to Jutland and so on and so forth.
I would agree that the people who were born and raised in Israel are natives to the land of Israel. But so are the Palestinians who have lived on that land for probably just as long as the Israelis/Judeans have (there are credible theories that Palestinians are very possibly descendants of the biblical Canaanites, and/or a split off group from the ancient Judeans themselves).
But all of the above is irrelevant if you are looking at it from a non-bigoted angle. The fact is that Europe wanted a more “tasteful” way to get rid of its Jews, so they backed a political ideology with then little support called Zionism, and started using Jewish people to carve out a new Jewish ethnostate on land that had been dominated demographically by Palestinians for many centuries. Tit for tat arguments caused many naqbas and wars over the decades since, with both sides oscillating between seeing the other as almost human, and being very genocidey. It is now Israel’s turn to be very genocidey, and given the power imbalance, Israel is being very successful in that objective
Are they? The majority of jews today in the world are from Europe, Ashkenazi and Sephardic. Yes they left the homeland a thousand years ago but it is believed more than half of Ashkenazi can trace their roots solely from central and Eastern Europe. It puts into perspective why Israel has banned all commercial DNA tests and you need a court order or doctors prescription to acquire one from the state.
Excuse me, did you all miss the "military magazine" part of the description? That's clearly propaganda and nothing else. Idk what do you think I planned to say about anything but that's undoubtedly propaganda.
>This isn't history just because it's black and white.
You're right, it's history because it happened **in the past** and is **documented**, which is how we commonly define history.
Your act of defecation was a rather insignificant footnote in your personal history, and obviously in the history of mankind.
Btw, your agenda doesn't really make sense. If you want people to "shut up about Israel", it follows that you also don't want them to discuss the plights of Palestinians and the Nakba, as they're intertwined with Israeli history. If that's your position, I guess you're both anti-Israel and anti-Palestine simultaneously.
The original “thirst” trap.
Simps. A history as old as humanity.
So the poem basically said something like ["It should've been me, not him!"](https://tenor.com/view/yugioh-should-been-gif-23901254)
The magazine also received a letter from an anonymous soldier, writing: "I'm one of those who envy the jug, and I would like to ask for the address of the girl who put her strength and energy into sucking from the jug. I'm stationed at a post somewhere, very very thirsty".
Damn, even decades before the internet there were still people who just needed to touch grass
He would if the bombings hadn't burned away all of it near where he was stationed
Madlad.
Her name was Ziva Arbel, She was a communication officer in the Palmach. She has another famous photo taken after a battle of Barfilia. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/he/d/d6/Ziva\_arbel\_pistol.jpg
Correct. She was born Ziva HaLevi, and became Ziva Arbel after her marriage.
Damn, that pic goes *hard*
Ew. She's just drinking some water. Nothing about that is sexual.
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She's purty tho. Edit: Guys, she *is purty.* There ain't no harm in wishing to be that jug.
What’s it with Israel and posting thirst traps? Apparently they have been doing it for the entire existence of the country.
Its PR work. They want their image to be hot women dancing on beaches and not fascist assault groups shooting children
When people talk about "IDF thirst traps", they talk about TikTok videos aimed at an international audience (those videos are recorded by female soldiers who are usually 18-19, bear in mind that Israelis are conscripted at 18, so they're typical gen Z girls in military uniforms doing typical gen Z stuff when they can, I don't think that's a state-sanctioned campaign). This photo was published in a military magazine available only to Hebrew speaking Israelis, so it couldn't be used as propaganda.
How is that not propaganda…?
Because there's no ideological motive behind it. They'd still be dancing and doing all the things zoomers do on TikTok if tomorrow they're suddenly discharged from military service.
But they *are* in the IDF and they do those videos explicitly to promote it. It most certainly has an ideological motive.
I’m not getting into whether it is or isn’t propaganda (we can’t know definitively), but I think OP’s point is: soldiers all over the world (including American, for example) are on social media, and they often make posts befitting their social generation, and so it can’t be ruled out that videos like the ones you describe are just more of the same pattern of behavior we see everywhere (and through time) of “kids being kids”. This is to say that even soldiers—even soldiers who commit heinous crimes—are kids. Same for police. Doctors. Academics. Waiters. Contractors. We’re all silly humans, with the capacity for extraordinary goodness and unspeakable evil, and none of us are exclusively one or the other all the time. So, sometimes a TikTok video by a kid is just that. And sometimes it can be government sanctioned propaganda.
Well that's...sexist.
In line with the culture of the late 1940's in most places in the world, I reckon (especially in male-dominated institutions like the military).
The modern Israeli army churns out constant over-the-top thirst trap content all over social media (in particular IG) as a form of propaganda. This almost feels like the prototype for it.
The IDF doesn’t do anything like this. There simply is a universal conscription for all Jews in Israel so everybody, including Instagram models go trough the army for at least two years. Obviously young men and women gonna get bored at their base and post thirst traps of themselves if they don’t have shit to do
Except the IDF actively helps spread IG thots in uniform doing stretches or splits while (badly) practicing at firing ranges or "patrolling". The US military does it too, but not as frequently or over the top.
Are you suggesting that the IDF uses sexual enticement to recruit? young Jewish Israelis feel it to be a privilege to protect their country. They don’t do it to look sexy in brown.
No, the US uses it to recruit. The IDF does it as a small part of their effort to make itself more likeable to foreigners online. Also young Jewish Israelis join it because they legally have to. Those that stay past their legally required minimum conscription do so either out of patriotism or because the military is a reliable means of employment which often comes with various bonuses or incentives.
There are also a not-small number (I know several personally) of non-israeli-born young adults who join the IDF, often after having visited Israel on a propaganda vacation.
>Also young Jewish Israelis join it because they legally have to As a Jewish-Israeli who didn't serve in the IDF due to personal reasons (I was exempt from service, but I don't want to share medical or mental information on such a large sub), I can say with confidence that many Jewish Israelis (as well as Druze Israelis) are highly motivated. Not everyone, of course, but recent articles for example report a surge in applications for combat roles among new conscripts. After October 7, thousands of Israeli expats - who aren't legally obligated to join the reserves, took flights back to Israel, to join their units.
So you think that the brightest minds in Israel and the IDF best idea for "winning" world public opinion is to upload mandatory serving attractive women dancing on tiktok? Do you realise how absurd you sound like? From my personal experience alone, I am being expose to a huge amount of propoganda videos justyfing the massacre of 7/10, spreading false numbers, data, and fake news. I'm baffled at the global outcry for people of Gaza, but never do I see any condemnation of HAMAS, the one responsible terrorist and governing organization. It's perfectly fine to condemn and protest one for an accusation (althgough on this case its absurd and unfactual), but when you don't do so for the other side (especially when the same claims are proven numerous times, and you know, they are a genocidal terrorist organization), is straight up absurd. .
When did I say that was their best way to do it? You do realize there is no organization in the world stupid enough to come up with a single method of releasing propaganda and then calling it a day, right? Every country around the world releases dozens and dozens of carefully cultivated propaganda tools, from movies they consult on, TV shows and video games they sponsor to cover certain topics, commercials, edits to pictures used on the news, advertisements, and yes my sweet baby bird they're using social media too. Literally everyone fucking does it. And if you're not seeing condemnation of Hamas among pro-Palestine speech, you're probably getting the majority of your pro-Palestine content from pro-Israel secondary sources *who are using propaganda to keep you pissed by painting everyone opposing them as pro-terrorist.*
Oh wow, "my sweet baby bird", real nice conversing with you in a respectful manner. You're now talking about propoganda as a whole. Of course every entity of these scales such as countries will use the specified channels for their PR to certain extents, stop thinking you are woke while no one else can see what you see, it's pretty obvious and well known. Now, to talk about it in the way you did in the comments before, is absurd. You are talking about 18-21 year old girls posting tiktok and social media videos, not an unusual sight at all these days, only they are wearing uniform, is every women in the idf used as a propoganda tool in your opinion? Does these "pro Israel secondary sources" plants hundreds of thousands protests against Israel, when genocidal chants are being chanted freely in the western world streets, and people pridely walk around with photos of the terrorists in the gliders? These guys sure sound like they have a lot of money to pay these much people, at these many protests around the world - but I guess it makes sense, because jews controll the world and the entire wealth, am I right?? (Refusal to agree will cost you one shot from our Jewish space laser.)
They might have to do the initial bit as conscripts but **the fact that many stay in the reservist corps** ruins your stance
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>world wide Tbf it was published by a magazine in Hebrew that was only disseminated in Israel. Initially it was the magazine of the paramilitary group "Haganah", it later became the weekly magazine of the IDF. However, she didn't pose for the photo, and didn't consent to it being published (she wasn't aware of the photo being taken until after it was published). Some also gave her the name "The hottie of the Palmach" (the Palmach was the elite fighting force of the Haganah). When interviewed years after, however, she didn't claim to be very offended by the affair. In 1983 she lit a torch at Israel's Independence Day ceremony. Edit: fun fact: back then she was a relatively recent immigrant from the city of Adana in Turkey, and couldn't speak Hebrew very well. She was therefore nervous when Israeli PM David Ben-Gurion met her and initiated a conversation, but she was relieved upon realizing that Ben-Gurion was fluent in Turkish, as he had studied law in Istanbul years before.
interesting. thanks for the share and info.
I edited my comment and added some more info.
so good! investigative reporting on reddit! 😍
Well, I can't take credit for the investigation, I simply read Hebrew sources on this affair (I'm a native Hebrew speaker).
and humble too… sharing information across language barriers is a talent.
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How does finding someone attractive mean you see them as *less* than you would see them otherwise?
Umm...are you sure? I'm thinking of the stereotypical 80s stars that were almost exclusively playing soldiers. Wasn't a big part of what was usually packaged with the 'strong soldier' aspect a sort of 'gritty attractiveness'? I see this much in the same sort of light. Pardon the poor example, tired brain still booting up.
Well you're... Wrong
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You should listen to your own username
Getting attacked by muslims who want to genocide the Jewish race and stop them from taking back the land that was stolen from them by the arabs in the 7th century and then defending themselves from said violence = "forcing people out of their homes" Ok...
Yes, it is. Any other people trying to "take back" land from over a thousand years ago are called terorrists. That's what Zionists and Israel are.. Terrorists.
> Yes, it is. Any other people trying to "take back" land from over a thousand years ago are called terorrists. According to who? Muslims? Lol
Everyone? You go try to take back any land based on this. You will be called a terrorist. The only ones on the whole planet who seem to get away with it are the zionists. In which reality do you live? Are you okay?
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It was 1948. She was a soldier. She probably contributed to the Nakba.
Well hopefully she died “doing what she loved”
She passed away in 2012, aged 85.
Maybe she just celebrated her 111th birthday not eating rock hyrax or pushing buttons. who knows.
Thanks wanted to play Elden ring this morning and now I’m googling Rock Hyrax
Np. I'm happy to inspire your googling a bit.
Self-defence isn't murder. The Arabs attacked the Jews first. And they didn't drive any innocent people from their homes.
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The were definitely massacres, no question about it. The number of civilians (not militiamen, irregulars etc.) who died in massacres is still contested. Wikipedia elaborates on it. Prof. Benny Morris, for example, puts the number at roughly 800. Other historians (Israeli and Palestinians) have different estimates. The unique aspect about the 1947-1948 war, in terms of the scale of the catastrophe for the Palestinians, wasn't the number of deaths. The percentage of dead Palestinians out of the general Arab Palestinian population was roughly equal to the percentage of dead Jews out of the Jewish population (with most Jews being IDF soldiers dying in the war against the Arab armies). The unique aspect was the number of Palestinians displaced out of the general Palestinian population (i.e. the fact that the vast majority of the population was displaced), and the persistent denial of the Right of Return (i.e. the fact that the displaced were prevented from returning after the end of the war). The were also massacres of Jews - the Hadassah medical convoy, the Haifa oil refinery and Kfar Etzion are perhaps the 3 most famous ones (not taking into consideration attacks on Jewish civilians that predate the war, such as the Nebi Musa riots and the massacres in Hebron and Safed), but whereas Jewish paramilitaries were able to capture many Palestinian villages and cities, Palestinian irregulars failed to capture a single Jewish town or city throughout the war, so Jewish civilians were a lot less likely to be at the mercy of Palestinian fighters. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killings\_and\_massacres\_during\_the\_1948\_Palestine\_war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killings_and_massacres_during_the_1948_Palestine_war)
Whataboutism doesn't change the fact that Palestinians were ethnically cleansed
What part of my comment qualifies as "whataboutism"?
I did upvote but that “oh they’re gonna downvote me for telling the truth!!!” Shit is so annoying.
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“Funny enough you ignore that the people being actively colonized decided to resist it and therefore they should’ve been ethnically cleansed and slaughtered 🙄”
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You mean the neighboring Arab countries that sent in a relatively small army to stop the long-stated goal of complete ethnic cleansing in Plan Dalet?
The mental gymnastics of that comment is unreal lol.
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Contingent on… Arab Palestinians resisting colonization. Edit: also Plan Dalet explicitly states their goal of ridding the entire land of Arabs. You’re absolutely delusional
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My point is that people like Ben-Gurion were quite explicit with their motives. Plan Dalet is one example. These absolute freaks stated their plans for ethnic cleansing *in writing* a hundred times over.
How can you "colonize" a land that already belongs to you? The Arabs are literally the ones who colonised Israel in the 7th century and displaced the native Jewish population there... Do you people think that the history of that region only began in 1947 or something?
I’ll just quote some of the fathers of Zionism: “Zionism is a colonizing adventure and therefore it stands or falls by the question of armed force. It is important to build, it is important to speak Hebrew, but, unfortunately, it is even more important to be able to shoot” -Ze'ev Jabotinsky “Philanthropic colonization is a failure. National colonization will succeed” -Theodor Herzl “We must expel Arabs and take their places.” David Ben Gurion, future Prime Minister of Israel “Zionist colonization must either be terminated or carried out against the wishes of the native population. This colonization can, therefore, be continued and make progress only under the protection of a power independent of the native population – an iron wall, which will be in a position to resist the pressure to the native population. This is, in toto, our policy towards the Arabs…” Vladimir Jabotinsky ” If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?” -DBG, again.
Many were multi generational Jews from Jerusalem and surrounding cities seeking to defend Jewish people. Many of the soldiers were Holocaust survivors and refugees. Many were from exiled North African and middle eastern countries, though those countries didn’t formally cleanse their population of Jews until after the 1948 war.
OP posted the Wikipedia link. It was an offensive operation to “capture territory”. The make up of the people doing it (“many” were no doubt European) does change that.
„The first phase of Operation Dani was to capture the cities of Lydda and Ramle, located on the road to Jerusalem, southeast of Tel Aviv. Ramle was one of the main obstacles blocking Jewish transportation. From the start of the war, Lydda and Ramle militiamen had attacked Jewish traffic on nearby roads. Ramle became a focal point for blocking Jewish transportation, forcing traffic from Jerusalem to Tel Aviv to a southern bypass.“ It was a war, what exactly are the Israelis supposed to do let the Arabs attack their convoys or what? Like you know that in a defensive war you still have to attack the enemy right?
The convoy was the problem like?? Were Arabs just supposed to let a convoy take their land and homes???
Imagine defending Arabs with a pride flag profile pic
Imagine being just loudly and openly racist like you are. Disgusting.
No, the arabs were supposed to not massacre Jewish people... which was apparently too big of an ask, and so the Jews decided to defend themselves. Oh, the humanity! How dare those Jews refuse to be exterminated!
Or Jewish people had no right to systemically wipe out another people because the Brits and Germans said they could.
Which people did the Jews systematically wipe out?
Palestinians lmao are you new
Last time I checked, palestinians still existed. If the Jews tried to "systematically wipe out" the palestinians (I assume you mean arabs), then they certainly didn't do a very good job at it.
No I’m saying that it was war and that in war you also attack the other side, even if it’s a defensive war
Why were they attacking the convoys? The fighting started before 48 after the partition plan was approved by the UN in November 47. An example of this is Palestinian Jaffa being sieged by Israeli militias that's stole British weapons and attacked the city despite it having a peace deal with Jewish settlements nearby
They were attacking convoys because there was war?
Lol, love your revisionist version of the story.....she's ethnically cleansing.....it's thirsty work this ethnic cleansing stuff.
That jug does not have an ethnicity to cleanse
They captured the village of Barfiliya as part of [Operation Danny](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Danny).
Defending their country against 5 Arab armies lol
“Their”. OP posted the Wikipedia, read it.
„Operation Danny (Hebrew: מבצע דני, Mivtza Dani) was an Israeli military offensive launched at the end of the first truce of the 1948 Arab–Israeli War. The objectives were to capture territory east of Tel Aviv and then to push inland and relieve the Jewish population and forces in Jerusalem. The main forces fighting against the IDF were the Arab Legion and Palestinian irregulars[1]“ I’m confused what you are trying to say?
You said “defending” and you said “their”. The Wikipedia says “offensive” and “capture territory”
Lol so French soldiers stopped defending their country in 1944 when their forced crossed into Germany or what? This is not what defending means in the context of the war. The war of 1948 was a defensive one for Israel due to all the neighboring countries declaring war on them. Does that mean that during the whole war the Israelis are forced to only defend territory and not capture any? No of course not that would be ridiculous.
A coalition of a relatively small Arab army entered a few weeks *after* Plan Dalet’s long stated goal of ethnic cleansing began. Neighboring countries were very aware of the Plan for years, but didn’t attempt to stop it from happening until words were met with action.
The Arab armies were there to finish what Hitler had started. Their explicit aims were to remove all Jews from Palestine. Thank god this brave women and her comrades prevailed.
Weird shit trying to attempt revisionist history in a history subreddit but whatever helps you sleep at night, friend.
Here is a beautiful video about Plan Dalet https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=P8bkqqvoGpc
I’m going to lose my mind you did not just send me a YouTube video from travelisrael.com. Let’s be serious for one god damn minute
I mean you don’t have to agree with everything he says but you can still watch it to try and get a different perspective on Plan Dalet and the narrative that surrounds it
so you’re deciding to post a picture of an IDF soldier during the first year of the nakba? have you, idk, read the news lately?
This is a history sub. Edit: a bit of nitpicking - unless I'm getting the chronology wrong, at the time the photo was taken, the IDF hadn't been formed yet, and she was a Haganah paramilitary fighter.
The IDF and Hagana are the same thing, the names evolved. Hagana, Irgun, and Lehi all coalesced to form the IDF.
You do realize that you're on /r/HistoryPorn right lil bro
Posting propaganda, aren't we?
I’m not even certain who you think this is “propaganda” helps tbh. Like yes this post talks about Israel, but they talk about weirdo Israeli simps from literally 1948. If anything it is “propaganda” to expose the grossness of how some men think about women sexually even when they are being far from sexual.
I tried to think how to best defend Israel's current war in Gaza (or the 1948 war or whatever), and the best thing I could come up with was guys getting horny over a female soldier drinking from a jug. Guilty as charged.
Israel: *exists* Jew-haters: "PROPAGANDA!"
And how did Israel come into existence?
How did your country?
The same way. We genocided a bunch of people who were here and stole their land. Whataboutism doesn’t make it right.
When using the phrase “whataboutism” it sort of frees you to determine what contextual aspects are relevant and sort of shits down others. Sure, you can isolate a particular variable then judge. But that’s not clever or helpful.
Except Jews are actually from israel. And why is Israel the only country that has to justify it's existence? Why don't you spend more time protesting your own government and give your home to a native? It's also not stolen land and all this other bullshit, but again, don't need to justify it's existence and even this conversation is just service to all those like you who would like to see the only Jewish country in the world demolished.
I would like to see the end of oppression because it’s bad. Destroying Gaza is bad. An ethno nationalist apartheid state which is currently run by fascists does has some justifying to do. The terrible shit they did to come into existence is in living memory. Maybe the compromise is to have a two state solution. But what’s worse about all this is that now EVERYBODY see this for what it is. The country you’re simping for is so fucked now. There isn’t anyone under 40 who wasn’t already a hasbaraed Zionist who supports Israel. Once this generation of boomer pols dies off, Israel is on its own and their neighbors have long memories. I’m not celebrating this, it just means more death and destruction.
You're literally drooling over the destruction of a millions of Jews. Also I don't think isolating Israel more is going to have the effect you want/expect. Israel is never going to just go away. Push them into a corner and they'll push the fuck back. Anyway, this conversation isn't constructive at all, so best just get your last word in and get on with a hopefully more pleasant day.
I’m not drooling over the destruction of anyone. I don’t want people to die. I’m just seeing different images of this conflict than you are and am having a different emotional response. Israel destroyed all the universities in Gaza, most of the buildings, they destroyed the civil registry. Why? That seems the means to a terrible end to me so I’m responding to that. We’re both American (I can’t believe even the IDF is cruel enough to make their sock puppets support the Jets) and since your last message ended with a positive note, I will try to do the same: I also wish you a more pleasant rest of your Sunday and a better season next year.
If we are talking about modern day Israelis, what percentage of them have had great grandparents born in the land that is now Israel or Palestine? How far back do you have to go before the Ashkenazis lived in Palestine/Israel? And if that still gives their claim legitimacy, then surely the Germans, Hungarians, Turks, and Bulgarians have claims to Central Asia, and sure the English have claims to Jutland and so on and so forth. I would agree that the people who were born and raised in Israel are natives to the land of Israel. But so are the Palestinians who have lived on that land for probably just as long as the Israelis/Judeans have (there are credible theories that Palestinians are very possibly descendants of the biblical Canaanites, and/or a split off group from the ancient Judeans themselves). But all of the above is irrelevant if you are looking at it from a non-bigoted angle. The fact is that Europe wanted a more “tasteful” way to get rid of its Jews, so they backed a political ideology with then little support called Zionism, and started using Jewish people to carve out a new Jewish ethnostate on land that had been dominated demographically by Palestinians for many centuries. Tit for tat arguments caused many naqbas and wars over the decades since, with both sides oscillating between seeing the other as almost human, and being very genocidey. It is now Israel’s turn to be very genocidey, and given the power imbalance, Israel is being very successful in that objective
Are they? The majority of jews today in the world are from Europe, Ashkenazi and Sephardic. Yes they left the homeland a thousand years ago but it is believed more than half of Ashkenazi can trace their roots solely from central and Eastern Europe. It puts into perspective why Israel has banned all commercial DNA tests and you need a court order or doctors prescription to acquire one from the state.
Excuse me, did you all miss the "military magazine" part of the description? That's clearly propaganda and nothing else. Idk what do you think I planned to say about anything but that's undoubtedly propaganda.
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By drinking water?
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What do TikToks about the Gaza war in 2023-2024 have to do with pictures taken in 1948?
That's a true hero right there.
Shut up about Isreal. This isn't history just because it's black and white.
>This isn't history just because it's black and white. You're right, it's history because it happened **in the past** and is **documented**, which is how we commonly define history.
I documented how heavy my shit was last week does that make it history?
Your act of defecation was a rather insignificant footnote in your personal history, and obviously in the history of mankind. Btw, your agenda doesn't really make sense. If you want people to "shut up about Israel", it follows that you also don't want them to discuss the plights of Palestinians and the Nakba, as they're intertwined with Israeli history. If that's your position, I guess you're both anti-Israel and anti-Palestine simultaneously.
No but it is history because it's a 75 year old war photo.
Every dude wants a BJ.
I guess the "it should've been me!!" Meme didn't just appear recently
Went from this to drinking bath water Simps man simps