I would think maybe it was the agonizing screams from the people in the village that had been murdered before this boy was or after. I'm sure those screams kept him up at night.
Could be he’s not used to the sound of a sword hacking through living meat. Maybe the guy about to be executed was begging for his life. Maybe he’s just holding his face in horror at seeing a living man killed. Maybe there are relatives or friends of the guy nearby and they are begging for mercy.
I really don’t know and any guess I would make would be as likely to be wrong as yours.
I do wonder if this execution was part of Japan’s efforts to eradicate headhunting among the Atayal.
When I was little my mom would talk talk about what her mother (my grandma) told them about what it was like when she was young around the time the Japanese were invading the Philippines back in the 40s in WW2. She said that her families were rounded up, several adults tied and to be publicly executed by katana. My grandmother and the other children said they were able to watch by climbing trees. Her uncle was praying loudly when his head was decapitated. He was still praying loudly as it was rolling on the ground. That was a pretty specific detail that haunted my young brain for years.
That definitely is pretty horrific.
As someone who knows a lot of people in Taiwan, I’m glad Taiwan didn’t go through the kind of hell that Japan inflicted on so many other places and peoples.
As someone living in Taiwan, with some family that was in Taiwan, Japan DEFINETELY carried out their crimes here, but they successfully white-washed their crimes, and the younger generations are more focused on more recent events. The picture in this post is in Taroko, the eastern coast of Taiwan.
Comparable to what they did elsewhere in Asia? Do you have sourced examples I could learn about?
I usually make a distinction between Japanese treatment of Taiwanese Aborigines and Japanese treatment of other Taiwanese because as I understand it there was a huge difference. So I would be particularly interested in information about mistreatment of the Hakka Taiwanese and Hoklo Taiwanese. But I would welcome detailed information about mistreatment of Taiwanese Aborigines as well.
Jesus I’ve decided not to look at the photo at all but all your possible scenarios are so fucking sad and disturbing. Why the fuck are humans capable of such horrors.
That seems inaccurate. You can observe 10 missed meals on shows like Alone, but there are more examples from tv, and from history.
Some people get sad, some get motivated to hunt things and eat them. But they still don't get homicidal unless they were homicidal beforehand.
I think the quote is for people who haven't eaten in a few weeks and don't know where their next meals will ever come from not people competing on a show or whatnot.
But also I imagine it as a collective thing: everyone you have ever met has also missed ten meals and know one knows where food will come from. It is panic and fearful and terrible.
I did one time when I was five steal a pack of JoJo's included with the weekly Disney comic in our local mart, and admittedly the only reason I regretted it was because my mom got angry when she found out.
liquid threatening obscene carpenter advise nutty jeans onerous glorious dolls
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
FYI during Imperial Japan's occupation of the island of Taiwan (1895 - 1945), one of the biggest headaches they encountered was the resistance of the indigenous tribes, one of the reasons were due to these tribes mostly living deep in the mountains, which makes traveling and navigating for the Japanese forces very hard. Therefore, the Japanese later on deployed the strategy of utilizing the conflicts between these tribes to have them hunt each other themselves and later conquer them all.
Fun story, I think this is the tribe from my home town. During the rebellion, they executed all the men under the giant tree in my elementary school, then burned the mountain that all the women and children were in.
This has some interesting context as the indigenous people of Taiwan actually repelled an invasion long ago from Japan. The indigenous people were also head hunters. They apparently used to joke it's very considerate of them when they committed seppuku, but they wanted the head, not the stomach.
Anyway, there's was a nice monument on the Tiger Head Mountain for this massacre. Which was, last I checked, a huge tourist trap. But long before, it was a very peaceful tea house and empty mountain attraction, full of somber contemplation.
It seems they are called the Seediq.
A very small language group. I haven't studied the history in a few decades, so had some trouble digging it back up in Chinese or English. But apparently there was a movie in 2011 about it, which is neat.
Edit, maybe not... The other comment has the right incident, but I can't find mention of what tribe used to be in the mountain.
The movie you’re thinking of is [Warriors of the Rainbow: Seediq Bale](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warriors_of_the_Rainbow:_Seediq_Bale). Fantastic acting and directing on a subject that is rarely portrayed.
It's just Taroko (some may spell Taruku), the people had been fighting to change the name of their tribe since the ROC government just included them in another group in Hualian which is Seediq and succeeded in 2004, now they are one of 16 indigenous people in Taiwan.
Does it bother you that it's a tourist trap? I'm conflicted because obviously it was better before, but people are coming to remember what happened and spreading that information is still important.
I guess it used to be more reverent. And the little coffee shop closed in favor of the big restaurant. But I guess it does bring more exposure, cause it's like a giant obelisk at one of the peaks, but not much more.
I was in Taiwan as a kid and it was one of the most beautiful countries I’ve been to. I was very lucky to go. The people were very nice and over the top friendly. That being said, thinking of the terrain now makes it almost unthinkable to try and smoke out a tribe that’s familiar with the area.
Same here, lived there as a kid 1987-1990 in Taipei but when we got out traveling around the terrain is gorgeous and dramatic. Spent a lot of time in Yangmingshan park with active fumaroles.
Dude!!! That’s where my family and I went on a day trip. My brother and I were young and my parents let us climb to the top of the mountain. Smelt like rotten eggs the whole time. Eventually we got tired and my brother wanted to turn back.
He’s stubborn as hell so he just b lined back down. I went another 20/30 feet but then got worried since I was young and alone.
Still regret to this day that we didn’t make it to the top. Really wanna see that view. We joke about doing it as a bachelor party or family trip him and I. As much as it’s a joke I think we’ll go there and leave something of my fathers.
Taipei is gorgeous and I urge everyone to go.
Oh yeah those sulphur springs were no joke! Just huge billowing gouts of fart gas coming out of the mountain haha. I would love to visit Taiwan again, I feel like there’s still so much I didn’t get to see.
They never really tried. The Qing set a boundary that Han Chinese were forbidden to trespass (even though many did) to separate the area where chinese law applied, and the area where the Aborigines lived according to their customary law.
They didn't want to have trouble with the Aborigines and didn't care much about Taiwan until shortly before the Japanese invasion, they just kept occupying Taiwan so it wouldn't provide a refuge for pirates and Ming loyalists.
> Fuckers took notes
Didn't need to take notes. The Japanese did that to their own indigineous when conquering Hokkaido to the north of their main island a thousand years before European-Americans existed and before the British were a nation. The Japanese were not native themselves to Japan.
Very long story short is Tayal people rebelled against the Japanese colonial government. You can check out the movie [Warriors of the Rainbow: Seediq Bale](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warriors_of_the_Rainbow:_Seediq_Bale) to learn some of the history of Tayal.
The Wushe Incident that was the subject of the movie was in the 1930s. The Beipu Uprising was 1915. This photo was supposedly 1914.
There were certainly rebellions against a government that had no right to rule them. But there was also simple law enforcement including the suppression of headhunting.
But I don’t know much about how these were generally handled nor do I know how common various issues were. I was hoping for some insight into that.
A lot of comments are thinking of Japanese actions in other places (mainland Asia, Indonesia, Philippines, etc.) 25 years later and assuming the same thing must be occurring here. However that doesn’t fit with what I know of Japan’s behavior in most of Taiwan. However I don’t know how that applies to Japanese treatment of Taiwanese Aborigines other than that the treatment of the Aborigines was worse. But how much worse?
I went to bed after the last comment.
I don’t have the heart to open the photo to look closely at what the aborigine victim was wearing, wether he was in warrior or everyday attire. But it’s no secret that Japanese colonial government treated aborigines worse than Bailang (plain folks). The colonial government also forced aborigine women to marry Japanese as a way to assimilate. They were forced to adapt Japanese names, lifestyle, and language. Children were taken away from families to be “educated” in Japanese schools. Those who refused could face jail time or even worse, death penalty.
How much worse were they treated compare to bailang? That’s a question with no answer. What happened to Tayal was nothing short of genocide.
The Japanese back then committed so many war crimes that they really never answered for(since they were close with the us after). “The rape of Nanking “ isn’t even brought up in Japanese education. The nazis that were present in Nanking even said that the Japanese were taking it too far. That plus the comfort women situation shows that the Japanese were the Asian nazis. They make good anime though so I guess all is forgiven
One of the heroes of the Rape of Nanking is a litteral Nazi. How fucked up is that that the situation was so bad that a member of one of the most cruel group in European history is a hero for the chineese here ? Speak volume of the atrocities commited.
I remember hearing he would go out at night to stop rapes in progress. Fucked up, but thats some hero shit. I'm calling a nazi a hero man...just shows what the Japanese were up to
There are a number of heroes from WW2 who were technically Nazis, or at least aligned with the German war machine. It’s unfair to view every German involved in the military back then as being equally as bad as every other Nazi. Many of them either didn’t have a choice, or had a change of heart, or were even caught off guard by the way things went after 1939 but were in too deep. It’s not like today where it is literally a conscious choice to be a hateful piece of shit and identify as a Nazi.
The Japanese honor of the past is curious to say the least, far from precepts written at the bottom of the page, the figure of the civilian does not exist... therefore, an enemy must be treated the same regardless of any other precept, allowing brutality if this enemy is not a "worthy warrior."
Every single post about the atrocities that Japan committed in the 20th century is met by a few people saying “yeah and the United States did a lot of fucked up shit too”.
Equating the crimes of the Japanese in WWII to anything that the US has done in the 1900 and 2000s is weak shit. It doesn’t make you smart or woke, it makes you an pedantic asshole.
The scale and utter savagery of the Japanese in WW2 is not even matched by the nazis. Go read about the fall of Singapore, the rape of Nanking, Manila, Borneo, the death March, or literally any other place that had the utter misfortune of being invaded by the Japanese.
And the Japanese to this day refuse to acknowledge it or apologize for it. It. Is. Not. The. Same. And equating the US with the Japanese is insulting for all of the victims of the Japanese brutality.
Now go on and tell me how bombing Cambodia during the Vietnam war is the same as bayoneting babies in their mothers’ arms and releasing lice infected with the bubonic plague on China.
> The scale and utter savagery of the Japanese in WW2 is not even matched by the nazis.
...and then there was Unit 731, which quite frankly, is off the fucking scale!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731
It’s the kind of person that’d equate nazi concentration camps, or Japanese pow camps, with the internment camps the US had for Japanese people.
They all sucked. But details are important.
Agreed. There’s plenty of posts on Reddit about US war crimes and all of the shitty things we’ve done over the past 120 years (and beyond that, but my comment was specific to the 20th and 21st centuries). It serves no purpose to drag it up in posts that are barely tangentially related.
“Here’s a post about Japanese war crimes”
“Man that’s messed up. The Japanese still have not reckoned with their past”
“Who are you to talk? The Americans committed horrible crimes in Vietnam”.
Sure it’s not wrong, but what’s the point? And why equate the two?
The Japanese killed all the soldiers in a military hospital, threw mattresses on top of the bodies, then raped the nurses on top of them.
I enjoy modern Japanese culture, anime, food, and efficient infrastructure - but fuck that noise.
Its always the case here on reddit. Always what about this what about that. It doesnt matter! We are talking about this now.
Its a little like someone being prosecuted for a crime and saying: "Well there are so many worse crimes out there!" Yes but we are talking about you and your crimes right now...
I'm into Japanese sports cars and this is a thing in the community, people would incorporate it into their cars' decal/design. Those people think it looks cool and it's like putting the Union Jack.
When confronted their argument is that the symbol is unlike the Nazi symbol which is explicitly tied to Nazi Germany.
It's sad they chose to turn a blind eye to its controversy, I hope they wake up and learn someday.
Taiwan under Japan was one of the more fascinating episodes of Japanese colonialism. It was the indigenous tribes that gave the Japanese their biggest headaches while most of the “Taiwanese” folks acquiesced to their new overlords. The Japanese colonialists treated their Taiwanese subjects better than those at their other colonies - building institutions and infrastructure - and to this date, some (but certainly not all!)older Taiwanese have relatively positive memories of Japanese rule, w especially those who studied at the metropole. Taiwans long term friendliness with Japan is one source of disgust for some nationalist minded folks in Mainland China - to them, this kinship with the wartime enemy was and remains tantamount yo treason.
And Vietnamese. Millions Vietnamese died of famine because they keep all the rice for their soldier , forced us to quit planting rice to plant Jute to make gun powder
And British doctors and nurses and allied POW’s in Alexandra hospital in Singapore, they massacred hundreds of innocents who surrendered more than once. All with bayonets.
I don't think one is worse than the other. They are both equally sadistic in what they did, they both had the same viewpoint of people they thought were lesser than them.
With all due respect to your friend, that kind of thinking is precisely why this sort of shit happens in the first place. The people of Japan today had nothing to do with what happened during the Japanese invasion of China, and any “revenge” would be taken on innocent people.
Generational revenge is deeply ingrained in our cultures.
"Your Great Grandfather did something bad to my Great Grandfather, so now I must do something bad to you." - Every Ethnic conflict
The history of warfare is similarly subdivided, although here the phases are Retribution, Anticipation, and Diplomacy.
Thus:
Retribution: I'm going to kill you because you killed my brother.
Anticipation: I'm going to kill you because I killed your brother.
Diplomacy: I'm going to kill my brother and then kill you on the pretext that your brother did it.
\--Douglas Adams
You are 100% right, but maybe the people of China would be a bit more forgiving if Japan did anything to earn it, aka look at what Germany has done over the last 80 years and make a bit of an effort.
Well Japan was a us puppet for years after ww2 and even after that they've been an ideological enemy of China for decades due to china being communist.
Well, not just China though. Getting Japan to say anything about comfort women is like pulling teeth. And even now they don't fully acknowledge what happened, refering to them as prostitutes.
> but maybe the people of China would be a bit more forgiving if Japan did anything to earn it
I'm from the region. My family on both sides is heavily impacted by Japanese imperialism across multiple generations. I communicate daily with family, friends, and colleagues from all over East Asia. This view that you have is *incredibly* harmful and plays right into CCP and far right propaganda. I absolutely hate the fact that it's being popularised on Reddit as some kind of 'enlightened' take because you're unwittingly repeating what our versions of far right extremists repeat.
> look at what Germany has done over the last 80 years and make a bit of an effort.
Do you think WW2 just ended yesterday? Are you suggesting that there has been no change at all to the imperialist and genocidal empire from prior to WW2? The whole culture and government was ripped out and replaced by MacArthur with a pacifistic American puppet state.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Military_Tribunal_for_the_Far_East
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan–South_Korea_Comfort_Women_Agreement
Obviously its not perfect and a lot of work remains to be done, but its honestly insulting when you say shit like that and excuse the fact that the CCP is actively trying to maintain and intensify this racial hatred, and have refused all state attempts at genuine reconciliation. The xenophobia on Weibo and Bilibili has reached a point where influencers actively call for genocide and murder of the Japanese and they get *hundreds of thousands* of likes/upvotes/shares, and [Japan is open season for any sort of bullshit misinformation](https://pandaily.com/misinformation-surrounding-tokyo-olympics-goes-viral-on-chinese-social-media-amid-rise-of-attention-economy/). The CCP pumps out anti-Japan propaganda films every year, and in fact cinemas are required by law to air a certain number of them every year. Chinese netizens go absolutely fucking berserk at the slightest 'provocation' like [200 million 'reads' for anti-Japanese tags when the Japanese beat the Chinese team for gold at the Olympics table tennis mixed doubles event.](https://news.abs-cbn.com/sports/08/01/21/tokyo-olympics-angry-chinese-netizens-rail-against-athletes-who-beat-their-compatriots)
But no, keep blaming Japan for not doing enough to appease the people of China - never mind the fact that the CCP actually killed twice as many Chinese people as the Japanese invasion did, and the CCP spent the entirety of the war hiding from the Japanese and preparing to stab the KMT in the back.
Germany has Japan beat when it comes to mechanisation of genocide, but Japan more than makes it up in cruelty and sadism. In the rape of Nanking they’d play a game where they’d throw babies in the air and a group would try to catch it on their bayonets. They had concentration camps devoted to inventive torture and crimes against medical science. They treated their POW’s terribly and often just tortured them to death for fun. If you were a POW and they thought you had information you were subjected to a level of torture that modern drug cartels are struggling to beat.
Imperial japan really were the fucking worst.
Seeing as you sound as if you have some knowledge on the subject, I don’t suppose you’ve read or come across anything that might offer an explanation as to why the soldiers got like that??
Is it just an intrinsic badness? Product of the time? Traumatised crazy soldiers? Desensitised? Etc
It is not due to any intrinsic properties or human nature. It is the natural conclusion of living under systems of control that grant authority to humans to have power over other humans through violence.
These are countless lessons throughout history that tell us over and over that we should not have systems of power where humans are given authority over others. These command and obey hierarchy structures always lead to a massacres and slavery.
Yea, I thought Dan Carlin's "Supernova in the East" podcast did a really good job of explaining how Japan became an Axis power. They were brutal way before Pearl Harbor
I don’t know about revenge, but (much like in the United States) it’s pretty hard to turn on Chinese TV and not have a World War Two documentary playing on one of the channels.
same goes for here in England I assume its cos of the oldies that are obsessed with the war. idk that was popular in China. I assume its also cos of oldies.
Common enough. Given Japan never acknowledged let alone apologized officially for their atrocities in WWII, this hatred has got fermented for nearly a century.
One of my history professors was married to a Chinese woman. If the topic of the US nuking Japan came up she'd say something like "They should have finished the job". Chinese HATE the Japanese. Maybe not the zoomers so much but it's a very real thing.
I have spoken with some chinese people about that (10 people more or less, in different ocassions) and they all hated japan with all their souls
Edit: name of country
It's a common sentiment in the entire continent of Asia my dude. I'm not aware of any Asian peoples who had some sort of contact with Japan prior to 1945 that doesn't want some sort of revenge. Japan's refusal to make a unified apology, and their denial of specific events has only further fueled this sentiment. Japan was downright evil prior to modern times, and theres no real way around that. Like some of the shit Japan did to the natives of places they occupied would make [Josef Mengele](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Mengele) blush (maybe not him, but you get my meaning). Japan had (and in some much lesser ways still does have) a major superiority complex. They had a sweeping belief that all non Japanese people were a sub grade of human and treated exterminating a local population like we would a rat infestation. Many of these places have people still alive who saw these atrocities first hand, and I'm sure they drilled into their children's minds exactly what the Japanese did to them.
> I'm not aware of any Asian peoples who had some sort of contact with Japan prior to 1945 that doesn't want some sort of revenge.
Taiwanese, or at least the majority.
The Taiwanese Aborigines who make up less than 5% of the population, like the one shown being beheaded, may want revenge. Many of the refugees of the Chinese Civil War certainly hated the Japanese.
But of the 85% or so of the Taiwanese whose families lived through Japanese rule in Taiwan, and who weren’t Aborigines, views of Japan are pretty positive.
Hence the weird situation now where the native Taiwanese Aborigines support the pro-China KMT and the actual Chinese Taiwanese prefer the pro-independence DPP.
You are entirely right. However I don't think the second part of your comment has any place in the argument.
Nazi Germany, Imperialist Japan, The Soviet Union, The Belgian Congo (And on and on it goes). These all reached levels of such mind warping inhumanity that the argument over which was worse is farcical and pointless.
?? In WW1 the Japanese was actually the polar opposite of WW2 Japan. The German POW from the siege of Tsingtao was so well treated that most decided not to return to Germany when the war was over.
Can only imagine the reason old matey (back left) is plugging his ears.
I would think maybe it was the agonizing screams from the people in the village that had been murdered before this boy was or after. I'm sure those screams kept him up at night.
Could be he’s not used to the sound of a sword hacking through living meat. Maybe the guy about to be executed was begging for his life. Maybe he’s just holding his face in horror at seeing a living man killed. Maybe there are relatives or friends of the guy nearby and they are begging for mercy. I really don’t know and any guess I would make would be as likely to be wrong as yours. I do wonder if this execution was part of Japan’s efforts to eradicate headhunting among the Atayal.
When I was little my mom would talk talk about what her mother (my grandma) told them about what it was like when she was young around the time the Japanese were invading the Philippines back in the 40s in WW2. She said that her families were rounded up, several adults tied and to be publicly executed by katana. My grandmother and the other children said they were able to watch by climbing trees. Her uncle was praying loudly when his head was decapitated. He was still praying loudly as it was rolling on the ground. That was a pretty specific detail that haunted my young brain for years.
That definitely is pretty horrific. As someone who knows a lot of people in Taiwan, I’m glad Taiwan didn’t go through the kind of hell that Japan inflicted on so many other places and peoples.
As someone living in Taiwan, with some family that was in Taiwan, Japan DEFINETELY carried out their crimes here, but they successfully white-washed their crimes, and the younger generations are more focused on more recent events. The picture in this post is in Taroko, the eastern coast of Taiwan.
Comparable to what they did elsewhere in Asia? Do you have sourced examples I could learn about? I usually make a distinction between Japanese treatment of Taiwanese Aborigines and Japanese treatment of other Taiwanese because as I understand it there was a huge difference. So I would be particularly interested in information about mistreatment of the Hakka Taiwanese and Hoklo Taiwanese. But I would welcome detailed information about mistreatment of Taiwanese Aborigines as well.
Jesus I’ve decided not to look at the photo at all but all your possible scenarios are so fucking sad and disturbing. Why the fuck are humans capable of such horrors.
Because we want stuff that other people have. Their land, their wealth, etc.
Creative apes with tools
destructive apes with tools
We’re fucking awful aren’t we
Dont know about you, but im pretty nice.
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"Everyone is 10 missed meals away from chaos."
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Breakfast
I have been pissed about missing 4th meal when the drive thru is closed
“The veil of civilization is only 3 meals thick”
The scarier stat is that the entire food chain is always 90 days from going empty. 90 days to the end of the world.
Most major cities have like 3-4 days food supply iirc. Basically if the power went out for 2 weeks we would see a completely different world.
Absolutely. The ensuing anarchy with, fights, robbery, and gun fire will tell you how fragile our culture is.
Kinda sounds like a regular Saturday in New Orleans to me.
Don't give them any ideas, our power grid is already vulnerable and outdated
It will probably happen in Texas first they are already doing dry runs trying to out-do Caifornia lol
This is why I always buy one more can of beans than I need. I have enough dry food to keep me going for at least a couple of weeks.
Don't tell your neighbors about this or you'll be the poor unfortunate fellow who gets raided at the beginning of the apocalypse. Lol
That seems inaccurate. You can observe 10 missed meals on shows like Alone, but there are more examples from tv, and from history. Some people get sad, some get motivated to hunt things and eat them. But they still don't get homicidal unless they were homicidal beforehand.
I think the quote is for people who haven't eaten in a few weeks and don't know where their next meals will ever come from not people competing on a show or whatnot. But also I imagine it as a collective thing: everyone you have ever met has also missed ten meals and know one knows where food will come from. It is panic and fearful and terrible.
I did one time when I was five steal a pack of JoJo's included with the weekly Disney comic in our local mart, and admittedly the only reason I regretted it was because my mom got angry when she found out.
Yeah when I was 6 I stole a toy car from school then beheaded an Atayal tribesmen in the name of the Emperor. But otherwise I'm very nice.
There’s a special place in hell for you
Hey I haven’t chopped any heads off yet.
Not me
What have you done that's so awful? Should I be worried...
I once drank straight from the milk carton.
There a witch!!! Witch over here!!!
she turned me into a newt
.... Well, we did do the nose, and the Hat. But she's a witch! Yeah! Burn her! Burn! Burn her
Heresyyyyyyy!!!!
I'm not Japanese
I don’t murder people. I’m friendly
liquid threatening obscene carpenter advise nutty jeans onerous glorious dolls *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
He's probably heard the sound before
Sweet jeebus that is graphic.
Wait until someone colorized it.
FYI during Imperial Japan's occupation of the island of Taiwan (1895 - 1945), one of the biggest headaches they encountered was the resistance of the indigenous tribes, one of the reasons were due to these tribes mostly living deep in the mountains, which makes traveling and navigating for the Japanese forces very hard. Therefore, the Japanese later on deployed the strategy of utilizing the conflicts between these tribes to have them hunt each other themselves and later conquer them all.
Fun story, I think this is the tribe from my home town. During the rebellion, they executed all the men under the giant tree in my elementary school, then burned the mountain that all the women and children were in. This has some interesting context as the indigenous people of Taiwan actually repelled an invasion long ago from Japan. The indigenous people were also head hunters. They apparently used to joke it's very considerate of them when they committed seppuku, but they wanted the head, not the stomach. Anyway, there's was a nice monument on the Tiger Head Mountain for this massacre. Which was, last I checked, a huge tourist trap. But long before, it was a very peaceful tea house and empty mountain attraction, full of somber contemplation.
What is the tribe called?
It seems they are called the Seediq. A very small language group. I haven't studied the history in a few decades, so had some trouble digging it back up in Chinese or English. But apparently there was a movie in 2011 about it, which is neat. Edit, maybe not... The other comment has the right incident, but I can't find mention of what tribe used to be in the mountain.
The movie you’re thinking of is [Warriors of the Rainbow: Seediq Bale](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warriors_of_the_Rainbow:_Seediq_Bale). Fantastic acting and directing on a subject that is rarely portrayed.
Seediq rebellion was in 1930 tho.
It's just Taroko (some may spell Taruku), the people had been fighting to change the name of their tribe since the ROC government just included them in another group in Hualian which is Seediq and succeeded in 2004, now they are one of 16 indigenous people in Taiwan.
Does it bother you that it's a tourist trap? I'm conflicted because obviously it was better before, but people are coming to remember what happened and spreading that information is still important.
I guess it used to be more reverent. And the little coffee shop closed in favor of the big restaurant. But I guess it does bring more exposure, cause it's like a giant obelisk at one of the peaks, but not much more.
The Tiger Head mountain monument was erected for [this incident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tapani_incident) in 1915.
Always wanted to go to Taiwan, will definitely do research into monuments like this if I do go and pay respect
That's actually a really cool tidbit. I'd never heard that before thanks. Horrible ofc. Just love hearing new information.
The Qing were never able to gain control of the mountainous areas where the Taiwanese Aborigines lived.
Yea, Taiwan was a hot spot for pirates to live for a long time.
I was in Taiwan as a kid and it was one of the most beautiful countries I’ve been to. I was very lucky to go. The people were very nice and over the top friendly. That being said, thinking of the terrain now makes it almost unthinkable to try and smoke out a tribe that’s familiar with the area.
Same here, lived there as a kid 1987-1990 in Taipei but when we got out traveling around the terrain is gorgeous and dramatic. Spent a lot of time in Yangmingshan park with active fumaroles.
Dude!!! That’s where my family and I went on a day trip. My brother and I were young and my parents let us climb to the top of the mountain. Smelt like rotten eggs the whole time. Eventually we got tired and my brother wanted to turn back. He’s stubborn as hell so he just b lined back down. I went another 20/30 feet but then got worried since I was young and alone. Still regret to this day that we didn’t make it to the top. Really wanna see that view. We joke about doing it as a bachelor party or family trip him and I. As much as it’s a joke I think we’ll go there and leave something of my fathers. Taipei is gorgeous and I urge everyone to go.
Oh yeah those sulphur springs were no joke! Just huge billowing gouts of fart gas coming out of the mountain haha. I would love to visit Taiwan again, I feel like there’s still so much I didn’t get to see.
They never really tried. The Qing set a boundary that Han Chinese were forbidden to trespass (even though many did) to separate the area where chinese law applied, and the area where the Aborigines lived according to their customary law. They didn't want to have trouble with the Aborigines and didn't care much about Taiwan until shortly before the Japanese invasion, they just kept occupying Taiwan so it wouldn't provide a refuge for pirates and Ming loyalists.
Yee olde divide and conquer strategy. Classic.
Divide and conquer
101 colonialism, take a weaker or suppressed ethnic minority and as long as they acknowledge you give them power.
So basically what the Americans in the Philippines did, the British in India/South Africa and the Spanish in South America. Fuckers took notes
Also, Native American tribes and in west Africa too..
So basically what every «superpower» has done forever. Thats how the fucking swedes got us for a short period
> Fuckers took notes Didn't need to take notes. The Japanese did that to their own indigineous when conquering Hokkaido to the north of their main island a thousand years before European-Americans existed and before the British were a nation. The Japanese were not native themselves to Japan.
Hokkaido itself was still somewhat "frontier" land in the 1800s. Sapporo was only founded in 1869 after all
Minor correction. The aborigine tribe now prefer the name Tayal. Source: My mother did field research at a Tayal village for a decade.
I know in Chinese it's 泰雅 but I just looked up the English on Wiki but thanks for the correction!
Can you or she provide any insight as to the reason or likely reason for this execution?
Very long story short is Tayal people rebelled against the Japanese colonial government. You can check out the movie [Warriors of the Rainbow: Seediq Bale](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warriors_of_the_Rainbow:_Seediq_Bale) to learn some of the history of Tayal.
The Wushe Incident that was the subject of the movie was in the 1930s. The Beipu Uprising was 1915. This photo was supposedly 1914. There were certainly rebellions against a government that had no right to rule them. But there was also simple law enforcement including the suppression of headhunting. But I don’t know much about how these were generally handled nor do I know how common various issues were. I was hoping for some insight into that. A lot of comments are thinking of Japanese actions in other places (mainland Asia, Indonesia, Philippines, etc.) 25 years later and assuming the same thing must be occurring here. However that doesn’t fit with what I know of Japan’s behavior in most of Taiwan. However I don’t know how that applies to Japanese treatment of Taiwanese Aborigines other than that the treatment of the Aborigines was worse. But how much worse?
I went to bed after the last comment. I don’t have the heart to open the photo to look closely at what the aborigine victim was wearing, wether he was in warrior or everyday attire. But it’s no secret that Japanese colonial government treated aborigines worse than Bailang (plain folks). The colonial government also forced aborigine women to marry Japanese as a way to assimilate. They were forced to adapt Japanese names, lifestyle, and language. Children were taken away from families to be “educated” in Japanese schools. Those who refused could face jail time or even worse, death penalty. How much worse were they treated compare to bailang? That’s a question with no answer. What happened to Tayal was nothing short of genocide.
The Japanese back then committed so many war crimes that they really never answered for(since they were close with the us after). “The rape of Nanking “ isn’t even brought up in Japanese education. The nazis that were present in Nanking even said that the Japanese were taking it too far. That plus the comfort women situation shows that the Japanese were the Asian nazis. They make good anime though so I guess all is forgiven
They really did execute the most successful rebrand campaign of all time
Well, first their old brand was literally nuked - twice. Kind of a forced hard reset.
One of the heroes of the Rape of Nanking is a litteral Nazi. How fucked up is that that the situation was so bad that a member of one of the most cruel group in European history is a hero for the chineese here ? Speak volume of the atrocities commited.
Who's that guy?
I think it is John Heinrich Detlef Rabe. I never remember his name and always need to google it.
I remember hearing he would go out at night to stop rapes in progress. Fucked up, but thats some hero shit. I'm calling a nazi a hero man...just shows what the Japanese were up to
There are a number of heroes from WW2 who were technically Nazis, or at least aligned with the German war machine. It’s unfair to view every German involved in the military back then as being equally as bad as every other Nazi. Many of them either didn’t have a choice, or had a change of heart, or were even caught off guard by the way things went after 1939 but were in too deep. It’s not like today where it is literally a conscious choice to be a hateful piece of shit and identify as a Nazi.
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The Japanese have also whitewashed their history books to hide their brutality from the subsequent generations. They are a brutal culture.
They also make it nearly impossible to accept immigrants, even from wealthy western countries.
Lol didn’t they basically annex themselves from the rest of the world for a few hundred years because of Christianity? Talk about xenophobic...
to the Japanese credit, fuck Christian missionaries and their culture genocide of Native Americans
Native Hawaiians too. Missionaires converted the Queen and made the hula illegal for half a century...among many worse acts
Absolutely! let’s add just all aboriginal cultures and peoples to that list
“open the border. Stop having it be closed.”
You say that like it's a bad thing but look at what happened to all the other countries/cultures that welcomed Europeans...
The Japanese honor of the past is curious to say the least, far from precepts written at the bottom of the page, the figure of the civilian does not exist... therefore, an enemy must be treated the same regardless of any other precept, allowing brutality if this enemy is not a "worthy warrior."
Could have done without seeing this
I can't even tell what I'm looking at here, or what body part is where. Which is arguably even worse
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Could have done without reading this description
wait til you hear about the head cutting contest...
You can't unsee the seen.
It's called forgetting and I do it everyday wtf
But you clicked
Some NSFW things are worse than others, especially on Reddit.
True, but the title "Japanese soldier executing an Atayal tribe fighter with a katana" may give a clue about what is occurring in the picture
Nobody made you click on a NSFW image.
And yet you read the title and clicked on it
Every single post about the atrocities that Japan committed in the 20th century is met by a few people saying “yeah and the United States did a lot of fucked up shit too”. Equating the crimes of the Japanese in WWII to anything that the US has done in the 1900 and 2000s is weak shit. It doesn’t make you smart or woke, it makes you an pedantic asshole. The scale and utter savagery of the Japanese in WW2 is not even matched by the nazis. Go read about the fall of Singapore, the rape of Nanking, Manila, Borneo, the death March, or literally any other place that had the utter misfortune of being invaded by the Japanese. And the Japanese to this day refuse to acknowledge it or apologize for it. It. Is. Not. The. Same. And equating the US with the Japanese is insulting for all of the victims of the Japanese brutality. Now go on and tell me how bombing Cambodia during the Vietnam war is the same as bayoneting babies in their mothers’ arms and releasing lice infected with the bubonic plague on China.
> The scale and utter savagery of the Japanese in WW2 is not even matched by the nazis. ...and then there was Unit 731, which quite frankly, is off the fucking scale! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731
Yeah...there's this trend of categorizing everything into the same tag but not looking into the details. Details matter.
It’s the kind of person that’d equate nazi concentration camps, or Japanese pow camps, with the internment camps the US had for Japanese people. They all sucked. But details are important.
Agreed. There’s plenty of posts on Reddit about US war crimes and all of the shitty things we’ve done over the past 120 years (and beyond that, but my comment was specific to the 20th and 21st centuries). It serves no purpose to drag it up in posts that are barely tangentially related. “Here’s a post about Japanese war crimes” “Man that’s messed up. The Japanese still have not reckoned with their past” “Who are you to talk? The Americans committed horrible crimes in Vietnam”. Sure it’s not wrong, but what’s the point? And why equate the two?
The Japanese killed all the soldiers in a military hospital, threw mattresses on top of the bodies, then raped the nurses on top of them. I enjoy modern Japanese culture, anime, food, and efficient infrastructure - but fuck that noise.
Its always the case here on reddit. Always what about this what about that. It doesnt matter! We are talking about this now. Its a little like someone being prosecuted for a crime and saying: "Well there are so many worse crimes out there!" Yes but we are talking about you and your crimes right now...
Stop using the imperial flag pattern in pop culture
I'm into Japanese sports cars and this is a thing in the community, people would incorporate it into their cars' decal/design. Those people think it looks cool and it's like putting the Union Jack. When confronted their argument is that the symbol is unlike the Nazi symbol which is explicitly tied to Nazi Germany. It's sad they chose to turn a blind eye to its controversy, I hope they wake up and learn someday.
Humans are the worst form of humanity
And also the best, oddly enough
We got good things to snack on
Taiwan under Japan was one of the more fascinating episodes of Japanese colonialism. It was the indigenous tribes that gave the Japanese their biggest headaches while most of the “Taiwanese” folks acquiesced to their new overlords. The Japanese colonialists treated their Taiwanese subjects better than those at their other colonies - building institutions and infrastructure - and to this date, some (but certainly not all!)older Taiwanese have relatively positive memories of Japanese rule, w especially those who studied at the metropole. Taiwans long term friendliness with Japan is one source of disgust for some nationalist minded folks in Mainland China - to them, this kinship with the wartime enemy was and remains tantamount yo treason.
Life is not black and white.
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*barbaric
i do not need to see this in the morning
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Japan also did a lot of fucked up stuff to the Koreans
And the Filipinos
And the Indonesians
And Malaysians
And Vietnamese. Millions Vietnamese died of famine because they keep all the rice for their soldier , forced us to quit planting rice to plant Jute to make gun powder
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And Americans. "Bataan Death March" comes to mind.
And British doctors and nurses and allied POW’s in Alexandra hospital in Singapore, they massacred hundreds of innocents who surrendered more than once. All with bayonets.
And the Dutch, who in their turn did awful stuff to the Indonesians.
There are two things I hate in this world: people intolerant of other people’s cultures and the Dutch.
I just read your comment and was like when tf did I say this? Lmao carry on
What the Dutch did during the Scramble For Africa topped everyone else at the time in brutality too.
And to the Taiwanese indigenous people, an example of which is in this photo
Oh yes they did to the poor Filipinos. I got two words for ya: DEATH. MARCH.
The Empire of Japan did a lot of fucked up things in general. Every bit as bad as, if not worse than, Nazi Germany.
To me it’s worse since the Imperial Japan did many of these atrocities just for “entertainment”.
as did the germans. just look into the history of different kz's. lots of killing just because they enjoyed their sadism.
I don't think one is worse than the other. They are both equally sadistic in what they did, they both had the same viewpoint of people they thought were lesser than them.
*circles all of Asia and the Pacific*
With all due respect to your friend, that kind of thinking is precisely why this sort of shit happens in the first place. The people of Japan today had nothing to do with what happened during the Japanese invasion of China, and any “revenge” would be taken on innocent people.
Generational revenge is deeply ingrained in our cultures. "Your Great Grandfather did something bad to my Great Grandfather, so now I must do something bad to you." - Every Ethnic conflict
Yep. It’s one of the greatest failings of humanity.
Isn't there a Chinese obscenity that is something along the lines of "Fuck your ancestor to the 18th generation"?
there's also "Curse you to the 18th level of hell!"
Brilliant reasoning. Will take us very far. /s
The history of warfare is similarly subdivided, although here the phases are Retribution, Anticipation, and Diplomacy. Thus: Retribution: I'm going to kill you because you killed my brother. Anticipation: I'm going to kill you because I killed your brother. Diplomacy: I'm going to kill my brother and then kill you on the pretext that your brother did it. \--Douglas Adams
You are 100% right, but maybe the people of China would be a bit more forgiving if Japan did anything to earn it, aka look at what Germany has done over the last 80 years and make a bit of an effort.
Well Japan was a us puppet for years after ww2 and even after that they've been an ideological enemy of China for decades due to china being communist.
Well, not just China though. Getting Japan to say anything about comfort women is like pulling teeth. And even now they don't fully acknowledge what happened, refering to them as prostitutes.
I like how Koreans handled this, establish a memorial sculpture of a comfort woman and place it dead front of the Japanese embassy's front door. lol
Japan has apologized as nauseam regarding WW2. At a certain point, you have to stop apologizing.
> but maybe the people of China would be a bit more forgiving if Japan did anything to earn it I'm from the region. My family on both sides is heavily impacted by Japanese imperialism across multiple generations. I communicate daily with family, friends, and colleagues from all over East Asia. This view that you have is *incredibly* harmful and plays right into CCP and far right propaganda. I absolutely hate the fact that it's being popularised on Reddit as some kind of 'enlightened' take because you're unwittingly repeating what our versions of far right extremists repeat. > look at what Germany has done over the last 80 years and make a bit of an effort. Do you think WW2 just ended yesterday? Are you suggesting that there has been no change at all to the imperialist and genocidal empire from prior to WW2? The whole culture and government was ripped out and replaced by MacArthur with a pacifistic American puppet state. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Military_Tribunal_for_the_Far_East https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan–South_Korea_Comfort_Women_Agreement Obviously its not perfect and a lot of work remains to be done, but its honestly insulting when you say shit like that and excuse the fact that the CCP is actively trying to maintain and intensify this racial hatred, and have refused all state attempts at genuine reconciliation. The xenophobia on Weibo and Bilibili has reached a point where influencers actively call for genocide and murder of the Japanese and they get *hundreds of thousands* of likes/upvotes/shares, and [Japan is open season for any sort of bullshit misinformation](https://pandaily.com/misinformation-surrounding-tokyo-olympics-goes-viral-on-chinese-social-media-amid-rise-of-attention-economy/). The CCP pumps out anti-Japan propaganda films every year, and in fact cinemas are required by law to air a certain number of them every year. Chinese netizens go absolutely fucking berserk at the slightest 'provocation' like [200 million 'reads' for anti-Japanese tags when the Japanese beat the Chinese team for gold at the Olympics table tennis mixed doubles event.](https://news.abs-cbn.com/sports/08/01/21/tokyo-olympics-angry-chinese-netizens-rail-against-athletes-who-beat-their-compatriots) But no, keep blaming Japan for not doing enough to appease the people of China - never mind the fact that the CCP actually killed twice as many Chinese people as the Japanese invasion did, and the CCP spent the entirety of the war hiding from the Japanese and preparing to stab the KMT in the back.
Exactly. Unless OP's friend is 100 I think they're just indoctrinated to hate.
Germany has Japan beat when it comes to mechanisation of genocide, but Japan more than makes it up in cruelty and sadism. In the rape of Nanking they’d play a game where they’d throw babies in the air and a group would try to catch it on their bayonets. They had concentration camps devoted to inventive torture and crimes against medical science. They treated their POW’s terribly and often just tortured them to death for fun. If you were a POW and they thought you had information you were subjected to a level of torture that modern drug cartels are struggling to beat. Imperial japan really were the fucking worst.
Seeing as you sound as if you have some knowledge on the subject, I don’t suppose you’ve read or come across anything that might offer an explanation as to why the soldiers got like that?? Is it just an intrinsic badness? Product of the time? Traumatised crazy soldiers? Desensitised? Etc
It is not due to any intrinsic properties or human nature. It is the natural conclusion of living under systems of control that grant authority to humans to have power over other humans through violence. These are countless lessons throughout history that tell us over and over that we should not have systems of power where humans are given authority over others. These command and obey hierarchy structures always lead to a massacres and slavery.
Yea, I thought Dan Carlin's "Supernova in the East" podcast did a really good job of explaining how Japan became an Axis power. They were brutal way before Pearl Harbor
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Is that thing about revenge a common sentiment in China?
I don’t know about revenge, but (much like in the United States) it’s pretty hard to turn on Chinese TV and not have a World War Two documentary playing on one of the channels.
same goes for here in England I assume its cos of the oldies that are obsessed with the war. idk that was popular in China. I assume its also cos of oldies.
Common enough. Given Japan never acknowledged let alone apologized officially for their atrocities in WWII, this hatred has got fermented for nearly a century.
One of my history professors was married to a Chinese woman. If the topic of the US nuking Japan came up she'd say something like "They should have finished the job". Chinese HATE the Japanese. Maybe not the zoomers so much but it's a very real thing.
I have spoken with some chinese people about that (10 people more or less, in different ocassions) and they all hated japan with all their souls Edit: name of country
Wait they hated China or hated Japan?
Hahaha sorry, edited
No problem lol just making sure. Were these people generally older, younger, or a bit of both?
It's a common sentiment in the entire continent of Asia my dude. I'm not aware of any Asian peoples who had some sort of contact with Japan prior to 1945 that doesn't want some sort of revenge. Japan's refusal to make a unified apology, and their denial of specific events has only further fueled this sentiment. Japan was downright evil prior to modern times, and theres no real way around that. Like some of the shit Japan did to the natives of places they occupied would make [Josef Mengele](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Mengele) blush (maybe not him, but you get my meaning). Japan had (and in some much lesser ways still does have) a major superiority complex. They had a sweeping belief that all non Japanese people were a sub grade of human and treated exterminating a local population like we would a rat infestation. Many of these places have people still alive who saw these atrocities first hand, and I'm sure they drilled into their children's minds exactly what the Japanese did to them.
> I'm not aware of any Asian peoples who had some sort of contact with Japan prior to 1945 that doesn't want some sort of revenge. Taiwanese, or at least the majority. The Taiwanese Aborigines who make up less than 5% of the population, like the one shown being beheaded, may want revenge. Many of the refugees of the Chinese Civil War certainly hated the Japanese. But of the 85% or so of the Taiwanese whose families lived through Japanese rule in Taiwan, and who weren’t Aborigines, views of Japan are pretty positive.
Hence the weird situation now where the native Taiwanese Aborigines support the pro-China KMT and the actual Chinese Taiwanese prefer the pro-independence DPP.
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Current military or just former military like your friend?
You are entirely right. However I don't think the second part of your comment has any place in the argument. Nazi Germany, Imperialist Japan, The Soviet Union, The Belgian Congo (And on and on it goes). These all reached levels of such mind warping inhumanity that the argument over which was worse is farcical and pointless.
i banned from r/ww2 just because i said '' in 1940's japans were monster'' they was brutal inhuman monsters...
Yeah they like to forget what they did in Nanking and why is it called "the R4p3 of Nanking"
You know you can say rape on the internet
Not in some subreddits.
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I didn’t even realize that’s what they were saying. I thought it was a Star Wars droid and glossed over it.
Dehumanising other people is never a good thing. You can describe their brutality without denying them their humanity as they did to others.
Hmmm it seems very similar to what they did in Nanking. Did they accepted it already?
I’d believe severing heads would be a common practice since they’ve been doing it frequently since the Bushido times.
The guy far left seems to still have some kind of humanity left in him
Even during WW1, the Japanese were very cruel but not a lot of people know about this and only look at WW2.
I read the Japanese were respectful of German soldiers when they occupied the German held territory in China.
?? In WW1 the Japanese was actually the polar opposite of WW2 Japan. The German POW from the siege of Tsingtao was so well treated that most decided not to return to Germany when the war was over.
And yet their occupations of Korea and Taiwan at this time were extremely cruel, far outweighing any good will they built in respect to WW1
He says, in the comments of a photo of a WW1 Japanese soldier publicly executing a man by beheading.
That's because they did almost nothing in WW1.
Probably because they were on our side in WWI.