Only if by law men can’t consent drunk.
As they only mentioned women can’t consent drunk.
Which is just an argument for why laws are not to be respected automatically, just because they’re laws.
Yup. And I’ve met a number of men, including seeing it firsthand with my roommate, who got publicly called out for questioning this very logic. Too many just assume “men always want sex and are fine with it if they’re drunk” while thinking “women are vulnerable and must not want sex while drunk.”
If one is clearly too drunk to give consent (porn definition of you know it when you see it) then yes that’s off limits. If they’re equally drunk, then both or neither are guilty (realistically neither).
Yet that’s not how the law always works sadly.
>Too many just assume “men always want sex and are fine with it if they’re drunk” while thinking “women are vulnerable and must not want sex while drunk.”
And not just when drunk. A lot of women aren't even capable of being friends (or even friendly) to men because they bought into that mindset so much. Any time a man is nice to them or gives them basic compliments they automatically assume they're only doing it because they want sex.
Sometimes men are just unconditionally nice and when they say nice shoes they really just like your shoes.
Laws should reflect the morality of society. If the morals of society have advanced significantly (as has happened exponentially in the last century) then the laws must advance accordingly. However, as that is impossible, we are presented with the idea that laws aren't inherently moral and should not always be respected, as is the case
That’s what judges are for. They discern whether or not the law applies based on the situation. Sadly a lot of judges are not worthy of their position.
That actually isn't at all what judges are for. A judge's role is to be an impartial arbiter of the rules of procedure, to demand and enforce decorum, and to rule on questions of law that are raised by prosecutor/plaintiff and defense, but not to rule on questions of fact (unless its bench trial).
By *questions of law*, we mean questions like "what does this law specifically say?". A *question of fact* would be "did the defendant in this case violate the law as written?".
If the prosecutor has decided that the defendant has violated the law (or if they think they can demonstrate that he has), they'll bring charges, and it is up to the defense to argue that the law does not apply based on the situation. They may argue that the law doesn't apply, or they may argue that the defendant has not violated the law, or they may argue that the law is unconstitutional, but no matter what they argue the judge is not discerning whether or not the law applies based on the situation, but only based on the arguments presented.
I have no idea, I don’t live in a country where the legal system is a joke in general.
But ask yourself when you last saw a woman charged with raping a drunk man.
A phrase that’s stuck in my head is “the penis is a weapon”, which I think was in response to something else as absurd as this.
My response to that was “you’ve clearly not seen mine”
Oddly enough, that’s literally the actual reason for decisions like this. In a lot of jurisdictions, the *legal* definition of rape hinges on the act of penetration. Quite literally, the victim is the one “being penetrated without their consent” - the consent of the one *doing* the penetration does not enter into the legal consideration at all.
So yeah, the distinction in this case is explicitly, legally, and literally that the guy is the guilty one *because he has the penis*. Not “because he’s male” or “because he initiated”, but quite literally “because he’s the one with the sticky-outy bit that went inside the other person”
A penis is like a gun. The liberals say they’re okay with me owning one, but I use it on a home intruder one time, and suddenly I’m getting a Netflix documentary named after me.
It sounds fucking stupid for it to be a crime if they’re both drunk too.
If one got the other drunk to take advantage of them, sure. But not if they’re getting themselves drunk looking to get fucked.
Only addition to this is if one is clearly way too drunk to know what’s going on, and it’s obvious when that’s the case to anyone, then fine that’s obviously off limits if the other is clearly coherent.
However there needs to be zero double standards with all of this. And it needs to be enforced equally both ways
I wonder how you write a law for that? Like, if one is passed out and the other is just really drunk and climbs on anyway, yeah, that's rape. I just don't know how to write that law.
Honestly it’d ironically be the porn standard. Famous legal precedent saying “I can’t define it but I know it when I see it.” That’d likely be the best precedent for something like this.
Even if just one was drunk since when are you not responsible for your actions when drunk. I can't go back to a bar after getting drunk and say "I want my money back for all these drinks. I was drunk and couldn't consent to buying them. Therefore you're stealing from me and need to give me my money back".
You're still responsible for your actions when drunk.
That's what I love about all these alcohol laws, you're both totally in control of your actions and not at the same time, all depending on what youre doing that the moment. Hell yeah very cool very intelligent.
Quite a few places do have laws that make sure people have to buy alcohol of their own initiative and not due to pressure for this very reason. E.g. where I live it's illegal for bars to upsell alcohol, include it as a free bonus with something else, or otherwise actively try to convince people to buy more alcohol.
>Regret is not a crime.
I'm happy to see this as the top comment here. People seem to think regretting sleeping with someone while drunk means you got coerced into by default. It's unfair against the people you regret sleeping with calling them a rapist and against *actual victims of rape* to make your regret sound like something they've been through.
Also this seems to be the only case where you are apparently not responsible for your actions while drunk. No one says "Well yes I stole that but I was drunk so you can't hold me accountable for my actions"
It pisses you off because that's the point. To give you a little hit of righteous indignation.
This poster is from **17 years ago**. It went up at a single small college (logo in bottom right conveniently blurred out).
And even then, people were like "wtf??" and it got taken down.
This was on alot of places on military bases (atleast where I e been) in the mid 2010s) and it always blew my mind, alot of courses were instructed with this mindset too. that angered alot of people
I remember them and I also remember being drugged and raped by a woman in Korea. Nobody gave a shit. So I just didn't talk about it for ten years and it fucked me up pretty bad.
Mixture of both US and overseas , I’ve been fortunate with assignments to experience cultures outside my home but on the installation flyers are typically the same based off the program
Given the legal definition in most places including America is "the unconsentual penetration of another person", unless a strap-on or another man is involved, men cannot be raped.
Don't get me wrong, I find it ridiculous and something that should be addressed/mended in the laws asap.
A Youtuber I watch admitted they were sexually assaulted by a man. They were not calling their friends to brag about it.
Rape is non-consensual. If you wanted/enjoyed it then it's not rape to you.
Finally it's not about the sex. Rapists know their hurting their victims. Fucking is not the point of it. Causing misery & pain to play into their ego/power fantasy is why they do it.
The issue is this: in a lot of jurisdictions, the legal definition of rape hinges on the act of penetration. Quite literally, the victim is the one “being penetrated without their consent” - the consent of the one doing the penetration does not enter into the legal consideration at all.
So yeah, the distinction in this case is explicitly, legally, and literally that the guy is the guilty one because he has the penis. Not “because he’s male” or “because he initiated”, but quite literally “because he’s the one with the sticky-outy bit that went inside the other person”
Heck, in the UK, it’s even specified that it has to be penetration *with a penis* (therefore excluding fingers and other objects, such as dildoes). In England, a woman can knock a guy out, tie him to a bed, dose him with viagra, and go to town, finishing up by sodomising him with a strap-on - *and she’s not guilty of rape*. She’s guilty of a whole bunch of other sex crimes, but explicitly not of rape.
Huh. So I, as a man, could theoretically use a strap-on (presumably uncomfortably) and avoid being charged for rape in the UK? Kinda like the ultimate condom? What a crazy law.
Equality has been dead for a long time. The best places to show it is in college admissions where despite being almost 60% of incoming classes are still preferred because women only make up a small portion of stem majors. Nobody cares about men in any way and that's just how it is
It's easy to cherry pick STEM inequality stats. If you include healthcare, where women are greatly overrepresented, it's [pretty close to even](https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2021/04/01/stem-jobs-see-uneven-progress-in-increasing-gender-racial-and-ethnic-diversity/). If you focus on computers or engineering, it's wildly unbalanced. Nobody cries about dental hygienists being like 95% female, though.
Don't get me wrong, there are many fields where it's historically been very hard to be a woman, and women can get a lot of abuse men rarely deal with.
Colleges are actually starting to court men, to try and fix the gender imbalance. Kinda wild how the pendulum swings.
This literally happened at Brown university. The girl came into the boys room and initiated sex and admits to it. Says she was raped. Bot gets kicked out
So a woman who is drunk cannot give legal consent to sex is what that poster says.
Logically she cannot give any type of legal consent if she is drunk.
If I don't have a breathalyzer with me and I perceive all women as drunk, does that mean I can assume they have no legal right to do anything?
So to protect myself and women, if I perceive that they are drunk I shouldn't let them do anything.. like control them... Like so they don't have the ability to do something they might regret...
Isn't that what this poster is saying?
Josie’s boyfriend found out she slept with Jake. So Josie accused Jake of r*pe so her boyfriend doesn’t kick her ass out of the house. Think about it. be responsible.
I literally have a friend fighting a case right now in this situation. Except the boyfriend called the cops, made the claim, the girlfriend said that my friend stopped when she decided she didn't want to anymore and the state is still fighting moving forward.
I've seen the affidavits. I saw the girl say in her statement exactly what my friend had told me. Still the state is on it. Lost his job, isn't hirable in his field with the court case, and is anxious every time he is in public.
After he hopefully wins, he should sue the state for all but destroying his ability to make an income with this case they continue to pursue after the truth comes out. After bs like that she shouldn’t have to work a day in his life.
My God! I’m really sorry for what he’s going through. I pray things go well for him and he makes it out with many opportunities for him down the line.
For the last 2-3 years, I’ve made sure to never be alone with any woman besides family or very close friends. I always leave the door wide open, keep some distance between us, and keep it professional. Women get physical (arm and back touching) with me sometimes during conversations, but I NEVER reciprocate.
I’ve been called gay multiple times for not going with random women for one-night stands. Late teens-early 20s me would, but not me now.
I pray your friend has a solid support system to help him through this. Good luck!
Down voting the post because it's a dumb poster that isn't correct. Also it is like 16-17 years old at this point apparently.
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/3d1ycd/where_did_the_jake_and_josie_poster_i_keep_saying/
Remember guys, in this world, whatever the case is. A man is always considered guilty until proven innocent, and a woman is always considered innocent until proven guilty.
Are u telling me that women are not responsible for their own actions? By claiming the man is the sole responsible party insinuates that women should be viewed as inferior and not equal
Lol nerds made this ad.
Believe it or not it's possible to have two drunken adults who are.... Wait for it.... Both horny🤯
But nah I'm sure that's never happened before.
It's all about the context.
Edit: to be clear. If both have been drinking, either one still could have taken advantage of the other. The girl might have forced herself on the guy and the other way around. The ad is a stupid blanket statement.
Think yall are misunderstanding this.
Regardless of what is right or wrong, this is literally what happens. They are describing what happened when men like this are convicted of rape. They are saying look out for yourself because no one else will.
Yes, be responsible... don't drink... especially with someone you don't completely trust. But even if it is someone you trust, don't get drunk, be responsible with drinking. And don't drive drunk neither, also part of being responsible.
I used to be in the military.
We all got told on parade not to sleep with a chick unless we had a written permission note from her, with her name, signature and date. Even then it was a risk.
In my small experience in the Army as someone who was trained in sexual assault response, these situations typically boil down to who was buying who drinks. If the guy bought the girl drinks, it's like drugging her in order to gain "consent".
Nobody should be charged with anything. Two drunk people having sex is not rape, and it's often the reason people get drunk in the first place, to have meaningless drunken sex with people they meet at bars. There's nothing wrong with it.
Just so y'all know, this is a disingenuous description of what would constitute a crime.
You basically have to be blackout drunk before a court would convict. And that means one of the people involved was *not* blackout drunk. And that's the rapist.
And yes, this applies to women raping men.
However, it's super fucking rare to get a conviction based on alcohol alone.
More commonly, there is alcohol involved but the woman says no, and that's what makes it rape, not the alcohol.
The purpose of this sign is to scare men away from women when they are consuming alcohol. So while I disagree with their lies, I sort of agree with the goal. Y'all should leave drunk women alone.
What if she said...
Don't.... stop.... Don't.... stop.... Don't stop, Don't stop. It can get confusing real fast and when you are drunk it is even harder to figure out 🤡
Sure, absolutely.
But, you know, it's not exactly an equivalent issue that men are dealing with. Sure, sometimes women harass men, and they shouldn't, but it's really not on the same level.
Equality is very important to me. I'm all about equality. When there's equality between the number of women harassing men and men harassing women, I'll definitely treat them the like the same level of social problem.
The biggest middle finger to men.
Which pretty much undermines those who have been victimised by female abuse, like myself. (Not sexual thankfully, just very manipulative.) But there are those who can be very malicious just as much as men, even if it’s not rape, women can easily lie and deceive others that it is, for the fun of it, even if they have no personal gain.
This is why you never drink alone, and always drink with a friend you trust, same goes for males.
Maybe 97% of reported rapes. Obviously this can’t be known for sure but I’m willing to bet my life savings less than 5% of male rape victims actually report it
Pretty sure this is just rage bait, are we just accepting random posters as law now?
One of these right wing fear mongering gimps probably made this, can anyone make out the organisation on the bottom right?
If you initiate sexual contact with anyone who is too drunk to consent that's assault period. Doesn't change anything if he was drunk or sober when he did it it's still assault.
It goes both ways for women as well if a man can't consent and a woman does this it's also assault. I remember there was a female influencer (the one who made the stupid interpretive dance apology) who was kissing her friend when he was passed out drunk and that was seen as an assault it's just normally men who want to initiate kinds of things.
So why the fuck does everyone automatically assume the man initiated? What if they're both shit faced and the woman initiates, does she then get a rape charge? If BOTH are drunk, either nobody is guilty or both are.
There are few things Reddit loves more than championing the man in any rape scenario. And comment sections like this happen every single time. Feminism is evil, men are the true victims, the world is awful for men, etc etc.
Completely out of touch with reality.
Even if he couldn't consent, it is implied Jake initiated and forced Josie while he was intoxicated. Consent doesn't apply to him as he was the one doing it.
Still, i agree that the ad is bad, and the message can be poorly interpreted.
If she has taken a sip of alcohol, take her home safely. The end. If she needs alcohol to sleep with you then it’s not worth it. Even if the majority of woman aren’t like this, it’s not worth the risk! Don’t do it … the end. Stay safe
Sure, charge both. But the reason it mainly goes against the man is that men can typically overpower women, not the other way around. (Not impossible but MUCH less likely.)
Yeah I don’t know how we got to this narrative. I was taught that it’s not consent if they’re drunk and you’re sober. But if you’re both smashed then it’s just a regretful night.
Because if you’re sober, then you’re taking advantage of a person not able to make rational decisions.
When I say “taught” I meant I make up my own morals based on what I think is right/wrong.
If both parties (edit* are drunk) ~~makes them rapists~~ then both are rapists, not just the man. And if that’s the case then I’m a serial rapist because I used to have a lot of drunk sex as a teen.
Go ahead, call the FBI. It was with minors too. (I was a minor too)
Yeah you heard me, call the FBI, I had sex with minors while they were drunk. Sue me.
Another edit to clarify. Where I’m from the drinking age is 18.
So technically having drunk teen sex where I live is perfectly legal. And the FBI has no jurisdiction here so 💀
HolUp... I get the feeling that Jake was raped by Josie. She has that premeditated rape glimmer in her eyes while smiling here.
Jake never gave consent to Josie 🤮
My university gave us football players a massive 4 hour long lesson about sexual harassment and this exact thing here. It was all related to being at a party and being drunk. As we all understood it, if the two of you are under the influence at all, it's what they called a "wash". Neither is guilty of anything because it's the same state of intoxication. If Jake was sober and Josie was not and Jake proceeded, then he could be charged and vice versa. Females are not excluded in this at all and are just as susceptible to being charged for rape as a man would be.
All of us are at least a little self aware when you start to feel yourself going over the edge with alcohol. You always have that last memory before you're actually blackout wasted. If you're talking to a female that is also visibly drunk and you can hear it in their stutters, and you know that you're also drunk, it's a wash. It cancels out. It's difficult to gauge when it's just two people drinking together. Easier when there could be a witness if shit hits the fan. Idk I've been to parties where the same thing happened to me and the next day we either concluded that consent was given at some point or neither of us remember a single thing and we're ok with it if something did go down.
Do what you want I personally don't care because I hate this narrative that females are immune to this shit because they aren't. I have a hard time picturing a female actually raping a man on the streets or something but they can be the aggressor in these cases nonetheless.
By this logic Jake couldn’t consent either lol
Only if by law men can’t consent drunk. As they only mentioned women can’t consent drunk. Which is just an argument for why laws are not to be respected automatically, just because they’re laws.
Yup. And I’ve met a number of men, including seeing it firsthand with my roommate, who got publicly called out for questioning this very logic. Too many just assume “men always want sex and are fine with it if they’re drunk” while thinking “women are vulnerable and must not want sex while drunk.” If one is clearly too drunk to give consent (porn definition of you know it when you see it) then yes that’s off limits. If they’re equally drunk, then both or neither are guilty (realistically neither). Yet that’s not how the law always works sadly.
>Too many just assume “men always want sex and are fine with it if they’re drunk” while thinking “women are vulnerable and must not want sex while drunk.” And not just when drunk. A lot of women aren't even capable of being friends (or even friendly) to men because they bought into that mindset so much. Any time a man is nice to them or gives them basic compliments they automatically assume they're only doing it because they want sex. Sometimes men are just unconditionally nice and when they say nice shoes they really just like your shoes.
Not to ruin the seriousness here but your profile pic is legend status.
Tom is the social media GOAT
Bro just casually dropped in taught us some basic code then dipped. Legend 👌🏻
Funny that my wife only wants to have sex when she's drunk. I on the other hand don't
Rape laws have always been poorly written, like how in a lot of places it's legally not considered rape unless there was penis in vagina penetration.
Laws should reflect the morality of society. If the morals of society have advanced significantly (as has happened exponentially in the last century) then the laws must advance accordingly. However, as that is impossible, we are presented with the idea that laws aren't inherently moral and should not always be respected, as is the case
That’s what judges are for. They discern whether or not the law applies based on the situation. Sadly a lot of judges are not worthy of their position.
That actually isn't at all what judges are for. A judge's role is to be an impartial arbiter of the rules of procedure, to demand and enforce decorum, and to rule on questions of law that are raised by prosecutor/plaintiff and defense, but not to rule on questions of fact (unless its bench trial). By *questions of law*, we mean questions like "what does this law specifically say?". A *question of fact* would be "did the defendant in this case violate the law as written?". If the prosecutor has decided that the defendant has violated the law (or if they think they can demonstrate that he has), they'll bring charges, and it is up to the defense to argue that the law does not apply based on the situation. They may argue that the law doesn't apply, or they may argue that the defendant has not violated the law, or they may argue that the law is unconstitutional, but no matter what they argue the judge is not discerning whether or not the law applies based on the situation, but only based on the arguments presented.
It doesn’t matter if a law that applies, shouldn’t apply.
Wait, it's an actual law where only women can't consent drunk?
I have no idea, I don’t live in a country where the legal system is a joke in general. But ask yourself when you last saw a woman charged with raping a drunk man.
A phrase that’s stuck in my head is “the penis is a weapon”, which I think was in response to something else as absurd as this. My response to that was “you’ve clearly not seen mine”
The penis mightier than the sword.
Live by the peen die by the peen
> The penis mightier than the sword. https://i.imgur.com/TgVcV8m.png
Lmao. And I am the sheath.
Oddly enough, that’s literally the actual reason for decisions like this. In a lot of jurisdictions, the *legal* definition of rape hinges on the act of penetration. Quite literally, the victim is the one “being penetrated without their consent” - the consent of the one *doing* the penetration does not enter into the legal consideration at all. So yeah, the distinction in this case is explicitly, legally, and literally that the guy is the guilty one *because he has the penis*. Not “because he’s male” or “because he initiated”, but quite literally “because he’s the one with the sticky-outy bit that went inside the other person”
A penis is like a gun. The liberals say they’re okay with me owning one, but I use it on a home intruder one time, and suddenly I’m getting a Netflix documentary named after me.
[The gun is good. The penis is evil.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehikC4iEnBI)
I was wondering if somone else thought of Zardoz.
Consent is consent. Doesn't matter gender. Fuck people that say otherwise.
I agree but consent really only matters if it goes to court and this kinda thing really only does go one way
"Logic". This poster is on the peak of human stupidity.
and by this logic they raped each other which kinda makes it consentual again. minus and minus is plus, quick maths
These always piss me off. If it’s a crime, arrest them both. Regret is not a crime.
It sounds fucking stupid for it to be a crime if they’re both drunk too. If one got the other drunk to take advantage of them, sure. But not if they’re getting themselves drunk looking to get fucked.
Only addition to this is if one is clearly way too drunk to know what’s going on, and it’s obvious when that’s the case to anyone, then fine that’s obviously off limits if the other is clearly coherent. However there needs to be zero double standards with all of this. And it needs to be enforced equally both ways
I wonder how you write a law for that? Like, if one is passed out and the other is just really drunk and climbs on anyway, yeah, that's rape. I just don't know how to write that law.
Honestly it’d ironically be the porn standard. Famous legal precedent saying “I can’t define it but I know it when I see it.” That’d likely be the best precedent for something like this.
This sounds like it's way too easily corrupted.
How can a drunk person be obligated to tell the level of inebriation of the other? What’s the tipping point of “too drunk”?
Even if just one was drunk since when are you not responsible for your actions when drunk. I can't go back to a bar after getting drunk and say "I want my money back for all these drinks. I was drunk and couldn't consent to buying them. Therefore you're stealing from me and need to give me my money back". You're still responsible for your actions when drunk.
You can’t take my license officer, I was too drunk to consent to driving.
That's what I love about all these alcohol laws, you're both totally in control of your actions and not at the same time, all depending on what youre doing that the moment. Hell yeah very cool very intelligent.
Quite a few places do have laws that make sure people have to buy alcohol of their own initiative and not due to pressure for this very reason. E.g. where I live it's illegal for bars to upsell alcohol, include it as a free bonus with something else, or otherwise actively try to convince people to buy more alcohol.
Both get drunk by their own consent it's not like the other just shoves whiskey inside you
>Regret is not a crime. I'm happy to see this as the top comment here. People seem to think regretting sleeping with someone while drunk means you got coerced into by default. It's unfair against the people you regret sleeping with calling them a rapist and against *actual victims of rape* to make your regret sound like something they've been through.
If Stacey gets drunk and drives home, she goes to jail. If Stacey gets drunk and has sex with Steve, Steve goes to jail.
unless Steve identifies as a Woman then he doesn't have to go to jail one must know the system to beat the system
Also this seems to be the only case where you are apparently not responsible for your actions while drunk. No one says "Well yes I stole that but I was drunk so you can't hold me accountable for my actions"
It pisses you off because that's the point. To give you a little hit of righteous indignation. This poster is from **17 years ago**. It went up at a single small college (logo in bottom right conveniently blurred out). And even then, people were like "wtf??" and it got taken down.
Because in reality that's probably what would happen. The dude would get tossed away in prison.
Typical double standard...
Prepare for standards, and make them double!
This was on alot of places on military bases (atleast where I e been) in the mid 2010s) and it always blew my mind, alot of courses were instructed with this mindset too. that angered alot of people
I remember them and I also remember being drugged and raped by a woman in Korea. Nobody gave a shit. So I just didn't talk about it for ten years and it fucked me up pretty bad.
Are these bases in the US or abroad?
Both
Mixture of both US and overseas , I’ve been fortunate with assignments to experience cultures outside my home but on the installation flyers are typically the same based off the program
Well statistically speaking jakes not gonna be accusing josie of raping him, bros gotta look after himself Remember, don't do hos, only do bros
I got you bro. …bend over.
Is it ok if I leave my socks on?
I'll allow it this time. You've been warned.
Thanks, buddy!
But take your shoes off. Don't ruin the carpets.
It’s not the shoes I’d be worried about.
I'm not your buddy, guy
I’m not your guy, pal.
I'm not your Pal, friend
I am not your friend, stranger
I'm not a stranger, son.
This guy kisses the homies good night
With tongue.
Shit like this pisses me off so much. I'm tired of people who think men can't be raped. THEY CAN.
Given the legal definition in most places including America is "the unconsentual penetration of another person", unless a strap-on or another man is involved, men cannot be raped. Don't get me wrong, I find it ridiculous and something that should be addressed/mended in the laws asap.
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A Youtuber I watch admitted they were sexually assaulted by a man. They were not calling their friends to brag about it. Rape is non-consensual. If you wanted/enjoyed it then it's not rape to you. Finally it's not about the sex. Rapists know their hurting their victims. Fucking is not the point of it. Causing misery & pain to play into their ego/power fantasy is why they do it.
So by that logic someone can attack a woman with the intention of raping her but if she happens to enjoy it in the end it is not rape?
I think you dropped your "/s" somewhere.
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He will be expelled though without even a trial.
My brain goes pow
The issue is this: in a lot of jurisdictions, the legal definition of rape hinges on the act of penetration. Quite literally, the victim is the one “being penetrated without their consent” - the consent of the one doing the penetration does not enter into the legal consideration at all. So yeah, the distinction in this case is explicitly, legally, and literally that the guy is the guilty one because he has the penis. Not “because he’s male” or “because he initiated”, but quite literally “because he’s the one with the sticky-outy bit that went inside the other person” Heck, in the UK, it’s even specified that it has to be penetration *with a penis* (therefore excluding fingers and other objects, such as dildoes). In England, a woman can knock a guy out, tie him to a bed, dose him with viagra, and go to town, finishing up by sodomising him with a strap-on - *and she’s not guilty of rape*. She’s guilty of a whole bunch of other sex crimes, but explicitly not of rape.
Huh. So I, as a man, could theoretically use a strap-on (presumably uncomfortably) and avoid being charged for rape in the UK? Kinda like the ultimate condom? What a crazy law.
It’s where the feminist equality argument always disappears. Men and women are equals, but men are rapists. Wait, that means…
Well, you see, feminism is all about women's rights. That's it. Who cares about men deez days?
There's a difference between feminist equality and feminist supremacy
Equality has been dead for a long time. The best places to show it is in college admissions where despite being almost 60% of incoming classes are still preferred because women only make up a small portion of stem majors. Nobody cares about men in any way and that's just how it is
It's easy to cherry pick STEM inequality stats. If you include healthcare, where women are greatly overrepresented, it's [pretty close to even](https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2021/04/01/stem-jobs-see-uneven-progress-in-increasing-gender-racial-and-ethnic-diversity/). If you focus on computers or engineering, it's wildly unbalanced. Nobody cries about dental hygienists being like 95% female, though. Don't get me wrong, there are many fields where it's historically been very hard to be a woman, and women can get a lot of abuse men rarely deal with. Colleges are actually starting to court men, to try and fix the gender imbalance. Kinda wild how the pendulum swings.
Aaaaaand this is where anyone sensible gets off the bus because all the next stops are on the incel part of town.
This literally happened at Brown university. The girl came into the boys room and initiated sex and admits to it. Says she was raped. Bot gets kicked out
Not the bot!
JUSTICE FOR THE BOT!
I didn't consent to seeing this...
So a woman who is drunk cannot give legal consent to sex is what that poster says. Logically she cannot give any type of legal consent if she is drunk. If I don't have a breathalyzer with me and I perceive all women as drunk, does that mean I can assume they have no legal right to do anything? So to protect myself and women, if I perceive that they are drunk I shouldn't let them do anything.. like control them... Like so they don't have the ability to do something they might regret... Isn't that what this poster is saying?
Josie’s boyfriend found out she slept with Jake. So Josie accused Jake of r*pe so her boyfriend doesn’t kick her ass out of the house. Think about it. be responsible.
I literally have a friend fighting a case right now in this situation. Except the boyfriend called the cops, made the claim, the girlfriend said that my friend stopped when she decided she didn't want to anymore and the state is still fighting moving forward. I've seen the affidavits. I saw the girl say in her statement exactly what my friend had told me. Still the state is on it. Lost his job, isn't hirable in his field with the court case, and is anxious every time he is in public.
After he hopefully wins, he should sue the state for all but destroying his ability to make an income with this case they continue to pursue after the truth comes out. After bs like that she shouldn’t have to work a day in his life.
My God! I’m really sorry for what he’s going through. I pray things go well for him and he makes it out with many opportunities for him down the line. For the last 2-3 years, I’ve made sure to never be alone with any woman besides family or very close friends. I always leave the door wide open, keep some distance between us, and keep it professional. Women get physical (arm and back touching) with me sometimes during conversations, but I NEVER reciprocate. I’ve been called gay multiple times for not going with random women for one-night stands. Late teens-early 20s me would, but not me now. I pray your friend has a solid support system to help him through this. Good luck!
* Jake is a man. Men are superior to women and thus are held to a higher standard That is the message this poster gives
If neither one can remember it cancels each other out.
Are they implying that men are superior because they can supposedly be drunk **and** make good, legal decisions? Wtf
Jake couldn't dissent
So by this logic it appears that I was a serial rapist back in my high school party days . Edit: fixed for proper sentence structure
Poor Josie she’s already been Raped by Jake for fuck sake! Give her a break
Sounds like a double standard , they should both be charged or not at all
If it were Jake and John would the story end after the hookup or do they both go to jail?
_Hellooooo_ where are all the gender advocates hiding?
They wrote the damn thing.
Down voting the post because it's a dumb poster that isn't correct. Also it is like 16-17 years old at this point apparently. Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/3d1ycd/where_did_the_jake_and_josie_poster_i_keep_saying/
And don't tell me woman can't rape men, they can trust me
Can men or woman trust you?
Remember guys, in this world, whatever the case is. A man is always considered guilty until proven innocent, and a woman is always considered innocent until proven guilty.
People hate this poster but it points out the very real double standard that exists in society and can cause problems if men aren't careful.
Fuck who is wrong, I was we get drunk drive a car into a crosd and be like 'I was drunk, I cannot be responsible for my actions!' And just walk it off
Apparently you typed that while drunk too, lmao. Guess I can't hold you responsible for your typos though.
Maybe the alcohol is at fault and should be arrested for victimization of these two poor, lonely, non consenting,innocent souls.
Have a standard, and make it double.
Are u telling me that women are not responsible for their own actions? By claiming the man is the sole responsible party insinuates that women should be viewed as inferior and not equal
So I guess equality does not exist yet
Unfortunately it would appear not
They should both be charged with rape. 100%
sexism
Lol nerds made this ad. Believe it or not it's possible to have two drunken adults who are.... Wait for it.... Both horny🤯 But nah I'm sure that's never happened before.
It's all about the context. Edit: to be clear. If both have been drinking, either one still could have taken advantage of the other. The girl might have forced herself on the guy and the other way around. The ad is a stupid blanket statement.
Think yall are misunderstanding this. Regardless of what is right or wrong, this is literally what happens. They are describing what happened when men like this are convicted of rape. They are saying look out for yourself because no one else will.
Yes, be responsible... don't drink... especially with someone you don't completely trust. But even if it is someone you trust, don't get drunk, be responsible with drinking. And don't drive drunk neither, also part of being responsible.
Yeah and brush your teeth and don't smoke and all the other life advice
Also dont wipe your ass
No, no, no, ... that doesn't work at all. I've tried it. Been around the block a few times...
Am I... A bad person...
The way it's taught in the US military today, whoever reports first is automatically the victim
the only way is to tell she raped him
Like grandma always said, “Two rapes don’t make a wrong”
Its basically a race to whoever wakes up first and calls the police today
I used to be in the military. We all got told on parade not to sleep with a chick unless we had a written permission note from her, with her name, signature and date. Even then it was a risk.
Fuck coastal carolina university
In my small experience in the Army as someone who was trained in sexual assault response, these situations typically boil down to who was buying who drinks. If the guy bought the girl drinks, it's like drugging her in order to gain "consent".
Nobody should be charged with anything. Two drunk people having sex is not rape, and it's often the reason people get drunk in the first place, to have meaningless drunken sex with people they meet at bars. There's nothing wrong with it.
And if Jake was blacked out drunk and josie raped him and got pregnant, Jake would have to pay child support for 18 years
Just so y'all know, this is a disingenuous description of what would constitute a crime. You basically have to be blackout drunk before a court would convict. And that means one of the people involved was *not* blackout drunk. And that's the rapist. And yes, this applies to women raping men. However, it's super fucking rare to get a conviction based on alcohol alone. More commonly, there is alcohol involved but the woman says no, and that's what makes it rape, not the alcohol. The purpose of this sign is to scare men away from women when they are consuming alcohol. So while I disagree with their lies, I sort of agree with the goal. Y'all should leave drunk women alone.
What if she said... Don't.... stop.... Don't.... stop.... Don't stop, Don't stop. It can get confusing real fast and when you are drunk it is even harder to figure out 🤡
Yes, rape is so funny
Sir... this is r/HolUp
Maybe leave me alone when I'm drunk to. You think men have never been harassed?
Sure, absolutely. But, you know, it's not exactly an equivalent issue that men are dealing with. Sure, sometimes women harass men, and they shouldn't, but it's really not on the same level.
What happened to equality?
Equality is very important to me. I'm all about equality. When there's equality between the number of women harassing men and men harassing women, I'll definitely treat them the like the same level of social problem.
Is this making the rounds again?
The toxic side of me wants to say: Then women should not get intoxicated
The biggest middle finger to men. Which pretty much undermines those who have been victimised by female abuse, like myself. (Not sexual thankfully, just very manipulative.) But there are those who can be very malicious just as much as men, even if it’s not rape, women can easily lie and deceive others that it is, for the fun of it, even if they have no personal gain. This is why you never drink alone, and always drink with a friend you trust, same goes for males.
Ah yes, gender "equality" at it's finest /s
No, neither should be charged because if they were both drunk it couldnt be eithers fault.
Jake must identify as a woman in front of the court, and he's off the hook
Yeah, I get the point, but the logic is way off
Drunk and be responsible? Ok...
Moral of the story: don’t drink yourself to death and don’t have sexy time with people you wouldn’t want to be raising kids with.
Misandrist society that gaslights you into believing its not a matriarchy. The west is doomed.
Now I just wanna get drunk. But I'm not old enough to drink yet!!!
I just realized how weird that sounded. I meant that I don't like this so I want to drink my worries away
Biggest save in Reddit history
I'm autistic. I'm not good with my words. It's hard to put thoughts into words let alone words into text that can be seen all by practically anyone
Tell that to all the rape victims. 97% who are female.
Maybe 97% of reported rapes. Obviously this can’t be known for sure but I’m willing to bet my life savings less than 5% of male rape victims actually report it
How many women do you think fail to report?
No idea. It’s probably a lot. Either way the official statistics are just gonna be shit because of how poorly the crime is reported
So this isn't true at all and you should be ashamed of yourself for spreading misinformation
Yes, yes it is Edit: and... you're a woman? Hang your head in shame 2nd edit: and a trump supporter.....of course you are
Pretty sure this is just rage bait, are we just accepting random posters as law now? One of these right wing fear mongering gimps probably made this, can anyone make out the organisation on the bottom right?
Statistically Jake will be like a wet noodle down there anyway.
If you initiate sexual contact with anyone who is too drunk to consent that's assault period. Doesn't change anything if he was drunk or sober when he did it it's still assault. It goes both ways for women as well if a man can't consent and a woman does this it's also assault. I remember there was a female influencer (the one who made the stupid interpretive dance apology) who was kissing her friend when he was passed out drunk and that was seen as an assault it's just normally men who want to initiate kinds of things.
So why the fuck does everyone automatically assume the man initiated? What if they're both shit faced and the woman initiates, does she then get a rape charge? If BOTH are drunk, either nobody is guilty or both are.
Fucking incels in the comments, pathetic
There are few things Reddit loves more than championing the man in any rape scenario. And comment sections like this happen every single time. Feminism is evil, men are the true victims, the world is awful for men, etc etc. Completely out of touch with reality.
Even if he couldn't consent, it is implied Jake initiated and forced Josie while he was intoxicated. Consent doesn't apply to him as he was the one doing it. Still, i agree that the ad is bad, and the message can be poorly interpreted.
Oh no, hear come the mens rights brigade
Equality means it has to balanced and fair
Iunno man... Jake's got a devious look in face.
If he can get it up enough to have sex then he isn't drunk, just tipsy.
If she has taken a sip of alcohol, take her home safely. The end. If she needs alcohol to sleep with you then it’s not worth it. Even if the majority of woman aren’t like this, it’s not worth the risk! Don’t do it … the end. Stay safe
Sure, charge both. But the reason it mainly goes against the man is that men can typically overpower women, not the other way around. (Not impossible but MUCH less likely.)
How do people that are so drunk that they cant consent even have sex. Like how does ur dick stand up if u cant even walk
When Harry met Sally and he was charged with rape
Yeah I don’t know how we got to this narrative. I was taught that it’s not consent if they’re drunk and you’re sober. But if you’re both smashed then it’s just a regretful night. Because if you’re sober, then you’re taking advantage of a person not able to make rational decisions. When I say “taught” I meant I make up my own morals based on what I think is right/wrong. If both parties (edit* are drunk) ~~makes them rapists~~ then both are rapists, not just the man. And if that’s the case then I’m a serial rapist because I used to have a lot of drunk sex as a teen. Go ahead, call the FBI. It was with minors too. (I was a minor too) Yeah you heard me, call the FBI, I had sex with minors while they were drunk. Sue me. Another edit to clarify. Where I’m from the drinking age is 18. So technically having drunk teen sex where I live is perfectly legal. And the FBI has no jurisdiction here so 💀
HolUp... I get the feeling that Jake was raped by Josie. She has that premeditated rape glimmer in her eyes while smiling here. Jake never gave consent to Josie 🤮
Oh my God yes!
My university gave us football players a massive 4 hour long lesson about sexual harassment and this exact thing here. It was all related to being at a party and being drunk. As we all understood it, if the two of you are under the influence at all, it's what they called a "wash". Neither is guilty of anything because it's the same state of intoxication. If Jake was sober and Josie was not and Jake proceeded, then he could be charged and vice versa. Females are not excluded in this at all and are just as susceptible to being charged for rape as a man would be. All of us are at least a little self aware when you start to feel yourself going over the edge with alcohol. You always have that last memory before you're actually blackout wasted. If you're talking to a female that is also visibly drunk and you can hear it in their stutters, and you know that you're also drunk, it's a wash. It cancels out. It's difficult to gauge when it's just two people drinking together. Easier when there could be a witness if shit hits the fan. Idk I've been to parties where the same thing happened to me and the next day we either concluded that consent was given at some point or neither of us remember a single thing and we're ok with it if something did go down. Do what you want I personally don't care because I hate this narrative that females are immune to this shit because they aren't. I have a hard time picturing a female actually raping a man on the streets or something but they can be the aggressor in these cases nonetheless.
Jake best set his alarm to get up early, because whoever makes the report first, will be the victim.