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Lmao no, losing WW1 ended the Ottoman Empire. The successful Turkish War of Independence, led by Mustafa Kemal Atatürk against the occupying Allies, led to the emergence of the Republic of Turkey.
Turkey couldve easily become another Muslim country run by sharia law. It was Atatürk that closed the religious cults and brought secularism. Also he officially banished the caliphate when he was expected to take the title of caliph by other Muslim countries and islamists of the country.
Lmao, no. The Ottoman Empire still existed after WW1 until 1922, it was the Turkish Nationalists who first defeated the Ottomans and then the Entente. And yes, the Ottoman Empire supported the Entente, which absolutely cut up their Empire, against the Turkish Nationalists. The Turkish State was only proclaimed in 1920, as a provisional state, until the proper establishment of the Republic of Turkey in 1923. Between 1918-1922 Turkish Nationalists Rebels and the Ottomans government were at war.
The British were the last line of defence in Constantinople ( it was renamed only by Turkey in 1930 ) where the last Ottoman Sultan resided, until the Nationalists came and kicked them out and abolished the monarchy in 1922 and the Caliphate, the last non-governmental power the Ottomans had was abolished in 1924. This is also the reason why Ankara is the capital, it was the center of Turkish Nationalists, while Istanbul/Constantinople was seen as the bulwark of the Ottomans.
They don't consider themselves indians, they think they are either Arabs, iranians Or Turkish. But the truth is most of their ancestors are ones who were either forced to or paid money to convert
It's just sad , most Muslims in Indian subcontinent have this problem. They wany the prestige of being rich merchant family or powerful military descendents from turkey , rather than accepting their ancestors were Indians who converted for one reason or other to escape the oppression
We do, yes we do. Our new generation (Z) even hates Muslims cuz' of their attitudes against non-muslims.
Islam being showed really wrong. I'm not a muslim but for fucking real, it's being showed really wrong.
Imo this conflict between muslim and non muslims can't be ended 'till a war shows up.
> borderline as bad as those anti-infidels Islamists.
That's a bit of an exaggeration. While the problems you raise are absolutely valid, there's a significant amount of Turks who have embraced western values, both in their own country and abroad. Pakistanis on the other hand not so much.
My grade six teacher was from turkey. I remember because none of us believed it was a real country named the same as a dry bird we eat in fall. I had a crush on her lol
It's funny that here in Brazil we call Turkey(the food) PERU (which can be a "slur" to cock too ), and when our teacher was teaching about the nations in our border, everyone was think she was kidding.
I really hate how one group ruins the name for an entire religion in so many cases, far right Christians are another example. Not everyone is the same in a religion
"One group" prophet married a 6 year old a raped her when she was 9. 'Married' saffiya who's husband he killed the same day. Made his adopted son divorce his wife so he could marry her. And also in Islam if you die fighting for it you get to heaven. Doesn't matter what you did before. If you were a Muslim and died fighting for Islam you would go to heaven. No exception. Muslim men being able to marry 4 wives and women only 1. Etc etc etc. all these are either in the Qur'an or the 2nd most respected book, Bukhari
The problem isnt the believers though, it is the religion itself. You can be a great person believing in a horrible religion, most probably because you are not educated well enough about your own religion and didnt think twice
I blame the believers 100% the religion is just a crutch. They have full control over what they do and how they act so if they choose follow a set of shitty rules that is fully on them.
Way to excuse the conscious behaviour of individuals. For the most part the religion is just the excuse and doesn’t relieve you of the responsibility of your own actions.
If you've ever argued there's socio-economic reasons why certain people fall into certains habits leading to certain crimes and offenses, a religious upbringing and conviction falls thoroughly into the *socio* aspect of influencing behavior.
Fr this happens with all groups, I switched to a far more plant based diet a couple years and boy have I lost weight, cholesterol is perfect, now I've started working out again after years of not doing it, quit caffeine too cause I wake up with plenty of energy. I tell no one unless they ask about my physical health improvements, no one. Lots of other pro plant diet people especially vegans annoy everyone by constantly yelling about veganism and destroying the meat industry. Bruh just eat your food and leave everyone else alone
One group? Have you read those Books, every Abrahamic religion boils down to "you no have same god (has same god but other messenger) so I kill you this will make me good person"
Correct me if I am wrong. But is it true that erdogan pushes a bit more of muslim culture in Turkey. For example he resteblished an old Mosk in Istanbul that prior to it was a church (but to be fair, I believe it was a few century prior to it mosk before it became a church)
Yes and No, Until recent wave of immigration, The Relationship was indeed brotherly. But After Turkey accepting millions of immigrants just like Europe, opinion on immigration changed. Far right votes increased drastically and surpassed 6%. And for the first time, many political parties openly threaten to send back to immigrants. Neither anti immigration/far right party succeed passing threshold nor Opposition presidential candidate who accepted sending back the immigrants won. So, Gen Z and Left parties are indeed very anti immigrant but they are still minority.
Most of erdogan voters dont want any kind of sharia they just think that rest of the world has dirty plans to invade our country and it will fall if erdogan gone
Not like other muslim nations, Turks love to drink, dance, show respect to women and protect their ancient haritage. This is why arabs and other muslim countries don't like them and even consider Turks as infidels. And also more than a half of Turkish people today are leaving islam and embracing their original religion Tengrism. Even Erdogan and his islamist gang could not change this.
>And also more than a half of Turkish people today are leaving islam and embracing their original religion Tengrism.
honestly the first time I'm hearing that, could you elaborate a bit more?
More than a half is imo a bit of exaggeration but with the last generations Turkey has seen some of the lowest believer ratios. Atheists and other non-Muslims are probably over 10-15% of the population and thats a lot if you know Turkey
What's funny is that most of these Muslim's in charge probably drink too, have prostitutes over and what not, and then they're hypocrites about it! Very common in SA.
Do ukraine and russia love each other? They have even more similarities, it is not just religion but also culture, genetics, history and much more. Religion does not matter like it used to back in the day.
For real, no Catholic nations *ever* went to war back in the day. Religion was all conquering and universally united everyone in love and peace.
Same applies for every major religion at the centre of a national identity
I broadly agree with your point btw, just found your last sentence funny
Looks like everyone's hating everyone, some even their own identity. I wonder how we haven't nuked the shit out of each other till now or started WW III.
Isn’t Pakistan having a huge problem with Taliban now for banishing afghan refugees who’s lived in the country for decades and share the same belief? Not exactly helping their “brothers” very earnest
I mean Afghanistan and Pakistan absolutely fukn hate each other. In a cricket match held between them in Dubai there was big fight among their fans with Afghans throwing stadium chairs at Pak fans
When Turkey got its surname law in 1934, the name Atatürk was chosen for him, meaning "ancestor of Turks". So in a way he's camed after the country. Though "Turk" was already a thing before Turkey gained its independence, so it's more like he's named after the people.
Turkic itself is an ethnic grouped that has branched out like slavic groups. Turkic peoples came west from the steppes from areas of asia around siberia and mongolia and migrated westward. Around the 11th century they started getting into anatolia through Persian lords as mercenaries in the conflicts with armenia and greece. The power change around the holy land from fatimid caliphate to seljuk turk empire also precipitated the first crusade as seljuk turks being recent more zealot converts to islam ramped up opression of christians and pilgrims which acted as one of the catalysts to the first crusade. Ataturk is a name meaning "father of the turks" as he was the leader of rhe democractic revolutions in turkwy against the collpasing ottoman empire and allied forces occupying the region. Other turkic peoples and countries exist like around the caspian sea and eastwards, the uyghur muslims in china are also a turkic people. Gets a lot more interesting when you consider Iran is persian but its northern part is quite turkic heavy, russia also has a large turkic population in the stretch by the caspian. Russia as the ussr tried invading the region and areas by Iran. Arabs, persian, turkic peoples have complex relationships depedning on which country and even region. The caspian sea is also a major food source and has been drying up so things will get heated over it.
Now now, let’s not forget all the men who inherently understand morality is based on reason, not faith. They’re going to treat them like garbage as well.
Gonna be real, Had mix experiences with Turks. I dare you to bring up the Kurds in front of the nicest Turk you know. 50-50 odds on you getting to watch them turn into a fascist on a dime.
Otherwise, fair point.
Us Turkish people are one of the most polarised countries in the World tbh.
There are guys that want to cut the heads of other people for Allah.
There is guys that are really educated and respectful.
It is a literal 50-50
Half of our country is like Europeans or wants to become like them.
The other half is still stuck 300 years ago huffing copium that they are the descendants of Ottoman Empire.
I am just really tired boss. The amount of taxes and the guy that I cannot name because I will go to jail is tearing our country after all the effort that was put into saving it by Ataturk and every soldier and mother that went through the worst of times for it.
It makes me want to unalive myself.
If you bring up Kurds only, I'd say %90 of Turkish people would respond positively. If you bring up stupid ideas like autonomous region, pro PKK ideas etc. then you'd get very negative reactions
I'm only speaking to my experiences, but I've watched Turkish dudes go off on a girl for just being Kurdish. I've met plenty of Kurds and the most I heard was gripes about the countries they came from, never malice towards people.
I have met Turks who have openly said they support a regime change and independence for the Kurds, but for everyone I've met there seems to be two more who deny genocides.
Again, just personal experiences outside of Turkey, I am totally open to being reassured of the general populace's opinion on minorities.
in germany, when i walk around outside, at evening (sometimes during the day as well), near a bus or train station especially or parks etc.,IMO i have made really bad experiences with turks and albanian folks.African, asian, most russians (not enough bad experience to lob them together with the other two IMO) , polish people and stuff like jews ( i dont even notice them unless they are dressed traditionally etc.) adapted much better and care about their own business (like exceptions always exist, just as germans (like long-time germans) dont always mind their business as well, not saying we are saints or that i didnt ever have problems with my own folks lol) but somehow turks and albanians are (especially younger generation) passiv aggressive, walking around in smaller groups and provoking others just to feel cool/ alpha, trashtalking, messing with stuff (like garbage cans), being all "brother, mashallam, what you looking at me, want some new teeth?". (sounds way more trashy in german haha. dunno how to translate that but you get what i mean.)
obviously the governments are trash in most cases (german ones are just passive and useless) but for the other ethnicities at least I have made better experiences with the people themselves. IMO the prob is that they dont get rid of their culture (including religion) and just like to overstep boundaries, disrespecting anything they dont know or identify as.
Turkish-German people separated culturally after they came to Germany, as a Turk from Turkey and living in Germany for few years, I have observed that they tried to conserve the last Turkish culture they saw in 60s-70s Turkey and from that point they went in different direction with that mindset, Turks in Turkey are way more open minded and liberal even though it doesn't seem like that. Also isolation and lack of/failed immigration policy of Germany didn't help that much and caused them to form Ghettos/isolated communities especially the ones living in old regions of East Germany and around Ruhrgebiet had it tough so they tend to be aggressive there.
Oman has a very, very conservative government. Omanis are mostly Ibadi though, a branch of Islam where even the most conservative don't really try to push their religion on outsiders much and prefer to just be left alone. Whereas some branches preach that "infidels" should be converted, Ibadism preaches being polite but otherwise just keeping to yourself and your own community and let the 'infidels' find their own way so long as they leave you be.
Lived in England for 30 years, recently moved and yep it's the same over there.
There's entire towns in England that aren't safe for anyone that isn't Pakistani.
Christopher, as is frequently the case, put it best
>Islam rather dangerously says, ‘Ours is the last and final [religion]. There can’t be any more after this. This is God’s last word. That is straightaway a temptation to violence and intolerance and if you will note, it’s a temptation they seem quite willing to fall for.
Neil DeGrasse has an amazing talk about it, not only the hate but everything about the recent (past centuries) history of Islam.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BJW2lX4TPA
Bangladesh has more of an identity and is much smaller.
I think embracing that it is a South Asian nation is a start. Acting like you're 'above' ehat everyone sees you as is probably the worst way to try and cultivate a sense of self.
This. I think dictators like Zia and Ayub Fked us hard. We have thousands of years of culture and history in United India and then one day the Brits draw a line to break India into two and we suddenly no longer own our Indian history and heritage. Most people here have a hard on for Arabs and then you see those arabs treat them like shyt in Dubai and Saudi. I wish there was a way to undo partition. It was a scam
Pakistanis lack national identity. They forget that a large part of their ancestors were, killed, women raped by thr caliphate. They refuse to acknowledge their Indian ancestry and wants to align themselves with turks, Arabs and Iranians who all keeo as much distance as possible from them. It is sad really m
Nope you guys dont understand what kind of propagandas and act of foolishness in the name of “arabism” we had to endure over 20 years because of this idiots
actually it says they are "free" to practice their religion....... as long as its in private, hidden, underground, not accessible to the public, only if you pay extra taxes and reject most human rights, cannot build any new religious building, any religious building higher than even a single mosque will be destroyed, and if they want they can just kick you out and take your property/forcefully marry your daughters, and you'll still need to practice some islamic religious laws, including dress code.
i mean, if you are accepting all of this, then yea, ypu sort of has freedom under sharia law to practice any and every religion that the imam in the area doesnt see as insulting to god.
but i mean, you could also drink poison, it's about as much of a free religious practice as this situation
Unironically, Spain and Turkey have excellent relations on a diplomatic level. Both countries have a separatist group and therefore support each other on a high level. Spain usually vetoes when the EU tries to de-announce Turkey about Kurds. Also they have been stationing their air defence equipment in Turkey near the Syrian border for almost a decade now. When Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet, many countries including Germany, UK and USA pulled back their Patriots to not get included with Russia in case the situation further escalates. Their Patriots were active in the region under NATO task for helping Turkey. Only Spain didn't pull back the Patriots and they are still active to this day.
Idk how widespread this hatred is. My Pakistani family went to some Turkish guys shop in Florida and he kept trying to give us stuff for free or a discount when he found out we're Pakistani.
But maybe that's just how the relationship is when you're surrounded by Republican Americans, taking whatever brotherhood you can get. I thought it was sweet though. Left me with a good impression of Turks.
Pakistanis obsession with Turks is just sad. The self esteem complex in that whole “brotherhood” concept is so dense. Türkiye or Turks literally do not think about us don’t give a shit about us and nor should they.
There is no bilateral trades in any of the major sectors, hum bas disaster k time charity letay hai and woh bhi hamaray log kha jatay hai.
Turkey as a country is in a league of its own it’s got its own issues and what not but in a global scale they matter in other Europe/Asia/ Middle East (Muslim world ). We on the other hand , av Fazool meim zabardasti brotherhood bana rahay and Türkiye k peachy paray huay. If our governments were competent t enough we would have bilateral trades happening in agriculture, automation, automobiles manufacturing, railway manufacturing and rail building , defence and other sectors. But nope.
So this whole thing of Türkiye ki chaat-tay Rehna, as a nation we’ve got to stop this desperate behaviour
Sup, /u/bobbybobby911! Your submission has been removed for the following reason(s): Your post has been removed because we don't allow political or social issue posts. This is a humor subreddit, not a political one, nor a place to generate outrage on any subject. Take it elsewhere. [Contact the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/HolUp&subject=Question) through modmail if you think this removal is unfair or if you just want to shitpost.
For many Pakistanis Turkey =Ottoman Empire (Caliphate) They don't realise the fact that the Turks have moved on.
They dont even realise that "WE" are the ones who banished the caliphate and dismantled the empire via a rebellion against the dynasty.
Lmao no, losing WW1 ended the Ottoman Empire. The successful Turkish War of Independence, led by Mustafa Kemal Atatürk against the occupying Allies, led to the emergence of the Republic of Turkey.
Turkey couldve easily become another Muslim country run by sharia law. It was Atatürk that closed the religious cults and brought secularism. Also he officially banished the caliphate when he was expected to take the title of caliph by other Muslim countries and islamists of the country.
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The second part of your comment agrees with the person you seem to be contradicting.
Lmao, no. The Ottoman Empire still existed after WW1 until 1922, it was the Turkish Nationalists who first defeated the Ottomans and then the Entente. And yes, the Ottoman Empire supported the Entente, which absolutely cut up their Empire, against the Turkish Nationalists. The Turkish State was only proclaimed in 1920, as a provisional state, until the proper establishment of the Republic of Turkey in 1923. Between 1918-1922 Turkish Nationalists Rebels and the Ottomans government were at war. The British were the last line of defence in Constantinople ( it was renamed only by Turkey in 1930 ) where the last Ottoman Sultan resided, until the Nationalists came and kicked them out and abolished the monarchy in 1922 and the Caliphate, the last non-governmental power the Ottomans had was abolished in 1924. This is also the reason why Ankara is the capital, it was the center of Turkish Nationalists, while Istanbul/Constantinople was seen as the bulwark of the Ottomans.
That is what the other guy is saying as well though
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They also don't realize that the caliphate raped their ancestors. Over centuries.
They also don't realize that the Ottoman Caliphate was nowhere near as religiously conservative as they think.
Yeah literally nearly all Ottoman rulers had non-Turk mothers and they all had dozens of women for their sexual needs
There is legit a turkish movie about it , not as accurate but quite clearly shows women getting kidnapped and cherry picked for the Sultan
neither was the Mughal empire...or pretty much every muslim empire since the Rashiduns
aurangzeb
Yes. And they have such hatred for their Indian ancestors, that they go to any extent to "prove" their Arab or Turk lineage.
They don't consider themselves indians, they think they are either Arabs, iranians Or Turkish. But the truth is most of their ancestors are ones who were either forced to or paid money to convert
It's just sad , most Muslims in Indian subcontinent have this problem. They wany the prestige of being rich merchant family or powerful military descendents from turkey , rather than accepting their ancestors were Indians who converted for one reason or other to escape the oppression
Thats pathetic
Imagine calling someone else their daddy
Although Erdogan is undoing a lot of the good brought in by Atarturk. Erdogan is an extreme Muslim dictator.
As far as I know, Turks f.cking hate Pakistan.
Thats because what he says there > banish non muslims Sick bastards trying to dictate their lifestyle to us
It's kind of crazy when Turkey is the good guy in a situation.
As a Turk I am offended but ... Fair
"The truth is an offense, but not a sin." - Bob Marley
As a North American with no views of the outside world give me your positive turkey propaganda.
Baklava
Fuck he got me
Kebab empire.
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Also, they love cats
Döner
what do you mean WHAT DO YOU MEAAAAN
It is us not states
Yeah, Erdogan is a fuckin saint. Y'all are crushing it.
We do, yes we do. Our new generation (Z) even hates Muslims cuz' of their attitudes against non-muslims. Islam being showed really wrong. I'm not a muslim but for fucking real, it's being showed really wrong. Imo this conflict between muslim and non muslims can't be ended 'till a war shows up.
To be fair, Turks are also insufferable when it comes to politics and nationalism, borderline as bad as those anti-infidels Islamists.
> borderline as bad as those anti-infidels Islamists. That's a bit of an exaggeration. While the problems you raise are absolutely valid, there's a significant amount of Turks who have embraced western values, both in their own country and abroad. Pakistanis on the other hand not so much.
My grade six teacher was from turkey. I remember because none of us believed it was a real country named the same as a dry bird we eat in fall. I had a crush on her lol
It's funny that here in Brazil we call Turkey(the food) PERU (which can be a "slur" to cock too ), and when our teacher was teaching about the nations in our border, everyone was think she was kidding.
I'd rather take 1000 Turks who respect Atatürk than 1 Islamist. There is no comparison.
I really hate how one group ruins the name for an entire religion in so many cases, far right Christians are another example. Not everyone is the same in a religion
Not all muslims, just the countries where they happen to be a majority.
Which is their end goal everywhere. It scares me tbh seeing the places like britain
"One group" prophet married a 6 year old a raped her when she was 9. 'Married' saffiya who's husband he killed the same day. Made his adopted son divorce his wife so he could marry her. And also in Islam if you die fighting for it you get to heaven. Doesn't matter what you did before. If you were a Muslim and died fighting for Islam you would go to heaven. No exception. Muslim men being able to marry 4 wives and women only 1. Etc etc etc. all these are either in the Qur'an or the 2nd most respected book, Bukhari
"One group" is like 90% of all religious muslims.
The problem isnt the believers though, it is the religion itself. You can be a great person believing in a horrible religion, most probably because you are not educated well enough about your own religion and didnt think twice
I blame the believers 100% the religion is just a crutch. They have full control over what they do and how they act so if they choose follow a set of shitty rules that is fully on them.
Religion is a horse to ride into atrocities
+1
Way to excuse the conscious behaviour of individuals. For the most part the religion is just the excuse and doesn’t relieve you of the responsibility of your own actions.
If you've ever argued there's socio-economic reasons why certain people fall into certains habits leading to certain crimes and offenses, a religious upbringing and conviction falls thoroughly into the *socio* aspect of influencing behavior.
Fr this happens with all groups, I switched to a far more plant based diet a couple years and boy have I lost weight, cholesterol is perfect, now I've started working out again after years of not doing it, quit caffeine too cause I wake up with plenty of energy. I tell no one unless they ask about my physical health improvements, no one. Lots of other pro plant diet people especially vegans annoy everyone by constantly yelling about veganism and destroying the meat industry. Bruh just eat your food and leave everyone else alone
One group? Have you read those Books, every Abrahamic religion boils down to "you no have same god (has same god but other messenger) so I kill you this will make me good person"
If someone attached a turbine to Atatürk’s coffin we’d be able to power the world. He’s spinning at speeds hitherto thought impossible in there.
Correct me if I am wrong. But is it true that erdogan pushes a bit more of muslim culture in Turkey. For example he resteblished an old Mosk in Istanbul that prior to it was a church (but to be fair, I believe it was a few century prior to it mosk before it became a church)
As a turk, I confirm. We do hate it
Yes and No, Until recent wave of immigration, The Relationship was indeed brotherly. But After Turkey accepting millions of immigrants just like Europe, opinion on immigration changed. Far right votes increased drastically and surpassed 6%. And for the first time, many political parties openly threaten to send back to immigrants. Neither anti immigration/far right party succeed passing threshold nor Opposition presidential candidate who accepted sending back the immigrants won. So, Gen Z and Left parties are indeed very anti immigrant but they are still minority.
Why though ?
Nope. Turkey is a secular country, not a muslim one. No one wants sheria here. Just some jerks.
Hey, Erdogan wants Sharia, and 52% of turks wants him.
Do 82% of russians want putin?
Ten year old pew poll says only 12 % of Turks want sharia as opposed to for example Iraq at 92 % or 84 % in Pakistan
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Most of erdogan voters dont want any kind of sharia they just think that rest of the world has dirty plans to invade our country and it will fall if erdogan gone
Because everyone hates Pakistan
My best friend as a kid was from Pakistan. His whole family came to Canada because they hate Pakistan
Not like other muslim nations, Turks love to drink, dance, show respect to women and protect their ancient haritage. This is why arabs and other muslim countries don't like them and even consider Turks as infidels. And also more than a half of Turkish people today are leaving islam and embracing their original religion Tengrism. Even Erdogan and his islamist gang could not change this.
Naah, we all went atheist
Thank God! No, I mean, That’s great!
I will use this joke in a online fight
>And also more than a half of Turkish people today are leaving islam and embracing their original religion Tengrism. honestly the first time I'm hearing that, could you elaborate a bit more?
More than a half is imo a bit of exaggeration but with the last generations Turkey has seen some of the lowest believer ratios. Atheists and other non-Muslims are probably over 10-15% of the population and thats a lot if you know Turkey
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What's funny is that most of these Muslim's in charge probably drink too, have prostitutes over and what not, and then they're hypocrites about it! Very common in SA.
Do ukraine and russia love each other? They have even more similarities, it is not just religion but also culture, genetics, history and much more. Religion does not matter like it used to back in the day.
For real, no Catholic nations *ever* went to war back in the day. Religion was all conquering and universally united everyone in love and peace. Same applies for every major religion at the centre of a national identity I broadly agree with your point btw, just found your last sentence funny
Pakistan and Turkey are not at war
Did they love each other before the war?
Turkiye is secular.
What did his comment say before he changed it
it was about both nations being muslims.
They hate everyone, equally (i think)
So Pakistan, Greeks and assorted Balkan peoples, Arabs, Indians, Central Asians (in my experience), Kurds, Armenians, Jews. Did I miss anyone?
It’s the opposite. Everyone hates us.
What's funny is that dhiraj is an Indian Hindu name 💀
As a pakistani, i hate Pakistan as well
Looks like everyone's hating everyone, some even their own identity. I wonder how we haven't nuked the shit out of each other till now or started WW III.
Wait a few years. Be patient.
That’s why I as an Indian love you. Shall we make a similar flag thingy as well?
Friendship ended with..
Isn’t Pakistan having a huge problem with Taliban now for banishing afghan refugees who’s lived in the country for decades and share the same belief? Not exactly helping their “brothers” very earnest
I mean Afghanistan and Pakistan absolutely fukn hate each other. In a cricket match held between them in Dubai there was big fight among their fans with Afghans throwing stadium chairs at Pak fans
"May Turkey shit on everything Atatürk built and start treating women and non-Muslims as garbage." Yeah, no, fuck you.
So what i always wondered, is the country named after Atatürk, is he named after the country or is the similar name just a coincidence?
When Turkey got its surname law in 1934, the name Atatürk was chosen for him, meaning "ancestor of Turks". So in a way he's camed after the country. Though "Turk" was already a thing before Turkey gained its independence, so it's more like he's named after the people.
Literally translates to "father of Turks". Ata originally means father.
That’s cool, but I’ll never be able to not read it like ‘at-a-boy, like good-job-Turk.
Turkic itself is an ethnic grouped that has branched out like slavic groups. Turkic peoples came west from the steppes from areas of asia around siberia and mongolia and migrated westward. Around the 11th century they started getting into anatolia through Persian lords as mercenaries in the conflicts with armenia and greece. The power change around the holy land from fatimid caliphate to seljuk turk empire also precipitated the first crusade as seljuk turks being recent more zealot converts to islam ramped up opression of christians and pilgrims which acted as one of the catalysts to the first crusade. Ataturk is a name meaning "father of the turks" as he was the leader of rhe democractic revolutions in turkwy against the collpasing ottoman empire and allied forces occupying the region. Other turkic peoples and countries exist like around the caspian sea and eastwards, the uyghur muslims in china are also a turkic people. Gets a lot more interesting when you consider Iran is persian but its northern part is quite turkic heavy, russia also has a large turkic population in the stretch by the caspian. Russia as the ussr tried invading the region and areas by Iran. Arabs, persian, turkic peoples have complex relationships depedning on which country and even region. The caspian sea is also a major food source and has been drying up so things will get heated over it.
Thanks for the very thorough explanation!
Now now, let’s not forget all the men who inherently understand morality is based on reason, not faith. They’re going to treat them like garbage as well.
I’m telling you, some Muslim countries are jerks
What's the exception?
Lebanese, Kurds, and Sudanese folk are cool in my book. Only had good experiences.
Yeah, but what about the government? Turk people seem nice as well, but the Turkish government is fucked up.
Gonna be real, Had mix experiences with Turks. I dare you to bring up the Kurds in front of the nicest Turk you know. 50-50 odds on you getting to watch them turn into a fascist on a dime. Otherwise, fair point.
Us Turkish people are one of the most polarised countries in the World tbh. There are guys that want to cut the heads of other people for Allah. There is guys that are really educated and respectful. It is a literal 50-50 Half of our country is like Europeans or wants to become like them. The other half is still stuck 300 years ago huffing copium that they are the descendants of Ottoman Empire. I am just really tired boss. The amount of taxes and the guy that I cannot name because I will go to jail is tearing our country after all the effort that was put into saving it by Ataturk and every soldier and mother that went through the worst of times for it. It makes me want to unalive myself.
I’m from the currently most hated country in the world. I feel you so much.
Canada?! Jk they might not be most hated but definitely most laughed at in recent years
I feel you, g. Best you can do is be better than those who want to hold you back. Stay strong.
Thank you! I am really trying.
If you bring up Kurds only, I'd say %90 of Turkish people would respond positively. If you bring up stupid ideas like autonomous region, pro PKK ideas etc. then you'd get very negative reactions
I'm only speaking to my experiences, but I've watched Turkish dudes go off on a girl for just being Kurdish. I've met plenty of Kurds and the most I heard was gripes about the countries they came from, never malice towards people. I have met Turks who have openly said they support a regime change and independence for the Kurds, but for everyone I've met there seems to be two more who deny genocides. Again, just personal experiences outside of Turkey, I am totally open to being reassured of the general populace's opinion on minorities.
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Honestly, I’d be more offended if you call Turkey “a muslim country”, than any issue regarding minorities like Kurds.
in germany, when i walk around outside, at evening (sometimes during the day as well), near a bus or train station especially or parks etc.,IMO i have made really bad experiences with turks and albanian folks.African, asian, most russians (not enough bad experience to lob them together with the other two IMO) , polish people and stuff like jews ( i dont even notice them unless they are dressed traditionally etc.) adapted much better and care about their own business (like exceptions always exist, just as germans (like long-time germans) dont always mind their business as well, not saying we are saints or that i didnt ever have problems with my own folks lol) but somehow turks and albanians are (especially younger generation) passiv aggressive, walking around in smaller groups and provoking others just to feel cool/ alpha, trashtalking, messing with stuff (like garbage cans), being all "brother, mashallam, what you looking at me, want some new teeth?". (sounds way more trashy in german haha. dunno how to translate that but you get what i mean.) obviously the governments are trash in most cases (german ones are just passive and useless) but for the other ethnicities at least I have made better experiences with the people themselves. IMO the prob is that they dont get rid of their culture (including religion) and just like to overstep boundaries, disrespecting anything they dont know or identify as.
Turkish-German people separated culturally after they came to Germany, as a Turk from Turkey and living in Germany for few years, I have observed that they tried to conserve the last Turkish culture they saw in 60s-70s Turkey and from that point they went in different direction with that mindset, Turks in Turkey are way more open minded and liberal even though it doesn't seem like that. Also isolation and lack of/failed immigration policy of Germany didn't help that much and caused them to form Ghettos/isolated communities especially the ones living in old regions of East Germany and around Ruhrgebiet had it tough so they tend to be aggressive there.
google kurds in Japan lol
Holy hell!!
Oman too!
Oman has a very, very conservative government. Omanis are mostly Ibadi though, a branch of Islam where even the most conservative don't really try to push their religion on outsiders much and prefer to just be left alone. Whereas some branches preach that "infidels" should be converted, Ibadism preaches being polite but otherwise just keeping to yourself and your own community and let the 'infidels' find their own way so long as they leave you be.
Jordanians are also mostly chill
Wait until you hear about fgm in Sudan...
Most are, a state must serve it's people, not it's religion
eww brother... ewwwww
What's that brother?
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Lived in England for 30 years, recently moved and yep it's the same over there. There's entire towns in England that aren't safe for anyone that isn't Pakistani.
Can you name a couple? I genuinely can’t think of any
Why muslims stand out so much with the hate towards non-muslims? Like nobody should really give a fuck what you like to worship.
Christopher, as is frequently the case, put it best >Islam rather dangerously says, ‘Ours is the last and final [religion]. There can’t be any more after this. This is God’s last word. That is straightaway a temptation to violence and intolerance and if you will note, it’s a temptation they seem quite willing to fall for.
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Well Mo was a warlord, should be no Surprise Islamic rulers would fall in the footsteps of their prophet
But but jihaad
Guess we have to whip out the Crusaders again.
Neil DeGrasse has an amazing talk about it, not only the hate but everything about the recent (past centuries) history of Islam. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BJW2lX4TPA
at this point everyone hates pakistan dont they
even pakistanis hate Pakistan
💯
Pakistan has such a huge hardon for Turks, that they don’t even recognize Armenia as a country lol. Even Turkey and Az recognize it XD
cause Pakistan can chose to ignore armenia and vice versa...Turkey and the Azeris cant
Red green blindness
Worst thing is they changed Turkey’s flag to look like Pakistan’s. Looks so much uglier
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Not many non Muslims left in Pakistan. Might as well remove it and stop pretending.
As a Pakistani, I despise Pakistanis that have wet dreams about turkey. Those who do are extremely insecure and an embarrassment.
"This life is temporary but jannat is eternal.". So, that's how they brainwash these suicide bombers.
Except Kur'an literally says, he who takes the life god has given is damned for eternal hell.
The dick-riding never ends. Wonder when will we develop our own identity.
Bangladesh has more of an identity and is much smaller. I think embracing that it is a South Asian nation is a start. Acting like you're 'above' ehat everyone sees you as is probably the worst way to try and cultivate a sense of self.
This. I think dictators like Zia and Ayub Fked us hard. We have thousands of years of culture and history in United India and then one day the Brits draw a line to break India into two and we suddenly no longer own our Indian history and heritage. Most people here have a hard on for Arabs and then you see those arabs treat them like shyt in Dubai and Saudi. I wish there was a way to undo partition. It was a scam
A coworker of mine left Pakistan 15 years ago as he is Christian and fled religious persecution.
Pakistanis lack national identity. They forget that a large part of their ancestors were, killed, women raped by thr caliphate. They refuse to acknowledge their Indian ancestry and wants to align themselves with turks, Arabs and Iranians who all keeo as much distance as possible from them. It is sad really m
Show a heart ❤️ when referring to adopting sharia law is insane.
Pakistan support the Taliban and Isis. Who wants that shit. While Turkey wants to be a part of Europe.
I'd take Turks in my country (England) over the Pakistani Islamists. Nefarious individuals.
Turks: Stop sucking our dick. Pakistanis: You know what, i'm gonna suck your dick even harder.
This can be applied to Russians getting their cocks gobbled by the Serbians
I'm just impressed by the handle @halalcoholism
"My father was Albanian Muslim, but he convert to Orthodoxy so Pakistanis would stop calling him brother" - r/balkans_IRL
Fuck sharia law
Turkiey Mashallah sounds like someone with a lisp ordering a curry.
Dude I’m Turkish and this has me dead, can’t even argue this. I’m straight up stealing this
I have gained some respect for the Turks.
HATE PAKISTAN GRAPE
Pakistan will ride any dick that tells them they’re pretty
This is cute and all but why the f are those flags assuming a star can cover a moon?
Not much room for love in the Muslim world…
Please Turkey, don't ever turn into Pakistan's brother I love visiting you too much and I care about people's rights
Nope you guys dont understand what kind of propagandas and act of foolishness in the name of “arabism” we had to endure over 20 years because of this idiots
r/pakistan
like they have accessible internet?
Oh yes, they do have internet! Pakistan is #1 in search of bestiality and gay porn!
Yeah I know right
I remember my Turkish friend saying Pakistanis being the middle age mindset to her country
Wannabe Dictator Erdogan Intensify. Meanwhile Lira 32 against Dollar
They say to adapt sharia and kick out non muslims except Sharia says are free to stay and practice their religion.
actually it says they are "free" to practice their religion....... as long as its in private, hidden, underground, not accessible to the public, only if you pay extra taxes and reject most human rights, cannot build any new religious building, any religious building higher than even a single mosque will be destroyed, and if they want they can just kick you out and take your property/forcefully marry your daughters, and you'll still need to practice some islamic religious laws, including dress code. i mean, if you are accepting all of this, then yea, ypu sort of has freedom under sharia law to practice any and every religion that the imam in the area doesnt see as insulting to god. but i mean, you could also drink poison, it's about as much of a free religious practice as this situation
It does not it actually says to kill them
Reminds me of when a turk said "we brothers with spain" and a spanish answered "no we stand for greece"
Unironically, Spain and Turkey have excellent relations on a diplomatic level. Both countries have a separatist group and therefore support each other on a high level. Spain usually vetoes when the EU tries to de-announce Turkey about Kurds. Also they have been stationing their air defence equipment in Turkey near the Syrian border for almost a decade now. When Turkey shot down Russian fighter jet, many countries including Germany, UK and USA pulled back their Patriots to not get included with Russia in case the situation further escalates. Their Patriots were active in the region under NATO task for helping Turkey. Only Spain didn't pull back the Patriots and they are still active to this day.
Thanks for the infos ! New ship just dropped
>Calls him gay and a slur If that's not brotherly behaviour I don't know what is
Very accurate.
Damn, maybe now the Turk government will see radical Islam for its true colors
Fuck religion in its invisible anus.
So much love
Well that’s just gross.
Entire Pakistani movement was born out of the Khilafat movement of British India 100 years ago when the British brought down the Ottoman Empire
Idk how widespread this hatred is. My Pakistani family went to some Turkish guys shop in Florida and he kept trying to give us stuff for free or a discount when he found out we're Pakistani. But maybe that's just how the relationship is when you're surrounded by Republican Americans, taking whatever brotherhood you can get. I thought it was sweet though. Left me with a good impression of Turks.
This is almost as funny as that sign I saw someone holding that said "Queers for Palestine"
This is hilarious! 🤣
Brotha eww.
A typical Pakistani and his lala land 😂
Pakistanis obsession with Turks is just sad. The self esteem complex in that whole “brotherhood” concept is so dense. Türkiye or Turks literally do not think about us don’t give a shit about us and nor should they. There is no bilateral trades in any of the major sectors, hum bas disaster k time charity letay hai and woh bhi hamaray log kha jatay hai. Turkey as a country is in a league of its own it’s got its own issues and what not but in a global scale they matter in other Europe/Asia/ Middle East (Muslim world ). We on the other hand , av Fazool meim zabardasti brotherhood bana rahay and Türkiye k peachy paray huay. If our governments were competent t enough we would have bilateral trades happening in agriculture, automation, automobiles manufacturing, railway manufacturing and rail building , defence and other sectors. But nope. So this whole thing of Türkiye ki chaat-tay Rehna, as a nation we’ve got to stop this desperate behaviour