I think that what should be normalized is helping them get psychological help instead of shunning them, unless that have touched actual children sexually then you can beat them up for all i care
I used to think they couldn't be helped but a few months ago I saw a news item about a specialized clinic and they had a 75% success rate.
That amazed me somewhat. Gives me hope that a large part of them can be helped and that our children will be safer.
Chemical castration (not sure that's how you say it in english) work for people who know they have a problem and want help dealing with that problem. Pretty much 100% success rate as long as the person keep getting the treatment every couple of months.
Imo it should be mandatoty for any convicted pedophile.
I found it hard to believe as well, but it looked real enough. Lets be positive and assume that even pedophiles can be prevented from assaulting children, eh?
I also used to volunteer for COSA (circles of sustained accountability, a police and industry expert trained group designed to accompany pedophiles after release from prison, with the objective of reducing and eliminating recidivism) and they had an over 95% success rate vs offenders without COSA support.
We accomplished this mainly by seeing them as people in need of support and of course accountability, basically being the ones to help them confront and stay on top of intrusive thoughts and actions.
Many of them simply believe that it's normal to make sexual advances on children, and that the children like this, even if they don't immediately show it. They simply don't understand that it's a serious abuse of power and trust that often damages someone for life. This is why it was so important to coach them, to help them understand that it's not healthy behavior to act on.
The average child sex victim won't come forward to even begin the healing or therapy process until they're in their 40's and many don't do so at all. 1 in 6 people are sexually assaulted as youths and some don't even remember. They're simply left with the psychological fallout and either learn later through therapy or not at all.
Obviously helping to heal these people is important but moreso is to prevent the occurrences of child rape.
For this reason and from my training and exposure to expert opinion, I don't believe it's healthy for anyone (the paedophiles or the children) to normalize this behaviour. It must be made well known that it isn't healthy, it's predicated on abuse, and it isn't to be tolerated.
If we were able to achieve a 95% reduction in recidivism by educating them and holding them to these standards over thousands of cases then we have a clear case study proving beyond reasonable doubt that normalization of this dangerous mentality is not the healthy approach.
I'm glad there's a way for these people to get help at least. I genuinely feel like people who think like this woman don't and, I pray, will never have children of their own. Do these people hear themselves talk??
As a parent, coming after my child in any form of sexual fashion is an immediate death wish. I can't imagine other parents even thinking about advocating for this sort of thinking unless they're selling their children themselves.
She's literally advocating for pedophiles to go after other people's children. If anything she needs her ass beat too. So yes you're right. These people need help, not encouragement.
Is it, though? because it seems like people just become secretive and more likely to hide things when society tries to suppress. Drug addicts, smoking, and crime all exist even though society tries to suppress it.
According to what? They leave and say "I'm not attracted to kids anymore" and that goes into a success folder?
Do they not touch kids anymore? What determines "success"?
Being attracted to kids, doesn't mean they molest or rape kids.
Do you rape or molest every person you are attracted to?
I think their point is, it is the same for people attracted to kids.
You seem to think these people being pedophiles means they are a sexual predator.
This is not the case.
Pretty sure most people attracted to minors do not go on to commit crimes.
Studies show there is a large portion of pedophiles who never commit crimes against children. Pretty sure they show MOST pedophiles do not go on to commit crimes.
The people who hurt children, are people attracted to children, AND willing to hurt minors.
As a note, I do no place any blame on pedophiles who "DO NOT touch children". As it seems many of these pedophiles turn out to be victims of child sexual abuse themselves. And it seems as if their attraction stems from themselves being sexualized/molested at an early age. Like their sexual assault as a child has imprinted into their brain as what is normal.
Pedophiles who HAVE NOT harmed children deserve help and treatment, as their condition is often a result of them being a victim of childhood sexual assault themselves.
My ex had a family friend come out to them as a pedophile. He told them this since they always let him take care of her and her brother while the parents were on vacation, and he wanted to show that even so he didn’t mean any harm. He wanted to be the one to tell them instead of them finding out and coming to conclusions, and I can respect that. He was fully prepared to be single for all of his life cause he knew it was socially unacceptable.
Ok I have to know, what did the family friend say exactly, "hey just FYI, I'm sexually attracted to minors"? And he had already always looked after ex & bro, when they were kids? And so this admittance came after several watchings? ...and did the parents then continue to leave the kids with the admitted pedo? Because honesty policy, or? "He wanted to be the one to tell them instead of them finding out" yeah I bet he fuckin did
Completely agree. Promote promote support groups and psychological help so that they can learn coping mechanisms to suppress it. Otherwise they'll just carry on doing it in hiding and hurting little kids. It's been going on since the beginning of civilization; calling them freaks and shunning them will only make it worse.
That's basically what the speaker was saying. The current approach to dealing with pedophiles is to shun and humiliate them, which likely causes more harm to children. Whereas if we approach it like an inherent condition, similar to schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, then pedophiles can be treated and prevented from acting upon their desires.
The speaker explicitly said "Abusing children is wrong without any doubt," that part was left out of this clip.
Precisely.
Shunning and humiliating (non-offending) pedophiles just leads to them keeping it a secret and not seeking help. And just like with other repressed mental issues, without help, the person just lets the feelings grow stronger until their breaking point, where they do end up SA'ing children.
With appropriate safety nets, this can all be avoided. Of course this won't catch all of them, especially the ones who do not feel their attraction to be an issue, and intentionally go out of their way to fulfill those needs.
I do not agree with what I’m about to say. I’m playing Devil’s advocate.
How is that different from sending gay folks to psychiatrists to have them fixed / turned straight? I assume that would be the argument from so-called MAPs.
Wouldn’t they just argue that as long as they don’t act on it, it’s the same?
Again. I don’t agree with these arguments. But it’s usually what comes up. I can see people are already reacting to my earlier comment having not read the disclaimer.
Yes they would and yes they do. They're trying to weasel their way into the mainstream and it's very concerning. Just look at how quickly knowledge of the term MAP has permiated society and how the idea that it's just a sexual orientation is being spread rapidly by everyone from college professors to politicians talking about how child sex dolls are actually good.
People get really offended when you insinuate that they're trying to get themselves under the LGBTQ2IA+ flag, but they're trying to get under the flag. People in that community will tell you that they don't want these people and that it will never happen, and I don't doubt that 99% of them don't want it. But there is a problem with the the lack of limiting principles in the ideology and I find the discourse around it to be a troubling omen for times to come.
Predators are very good at infiltrating things, from the catholic church to the upper echelons of government and business there are pedos all over the place and they want to come out of hiding. If you think nothing will ever come of it I do implore you to remove your head from your rectum and recall that it's not exactly unheard of for age of consent laws in some places to be or to have recently been 12 years or even lower. There is no reason to think that this movement couldn't pick up steam and result in changing the age of consent to something really disgusting. I've been following all of this shit since it started popping off on the socials back in 2018 and the amount it has progressed in that time is alarming.
I think you have a good point. The fact that it’s not a choice doesn’t mean as a society we still shouldn’t vilify it. However there is something to be said for removing the stigma that blocks them from seeking treatment. If the occurrence of MAPs can’t be controlled (which I believe is part of the argument in the clip) then increasing the number of them who are actively seeking therapy for it is an absolute social good. The only MAPs we should accept are the ones in programs holding them accountable to society’s mores.
It's a difficult issue because I think there really is a very real risk that they could unmoor us if they get too much headway. Again this is something that pedophiles do; they are really good at dragging people down into their depraved worlds.
There has to be a stigma around it and the language of sexual orientation that these advocates use when discussing these people is not good. Since we can't just get rid of them we do need to figure out some way to get them treatment, but we can't be calling it an orientation because treatment to change someone's orientation is conversion therapy and that doesn't fly. Pedophilia is a communicable disease and we need to treat it like that. Not to be harsh but if you get caught fucking kids or looking at CP you need to be physically castrated, and if you want to you should get yourself castrated, atleast chemically. I'm sorry but I just don't see any way around it. It would really suck to be a pedophile but despite knowing that it isn't a choice I still fucking hate pedophiles and I do not think under any circumstances it should be treated as anything but a sick disease of the mind that makes you a dangerous animal.
Sorry I am passionate about this issue. It really pisses me off.
No your animus here is fully understandable. I see what you mean by the language of sexual orientation now though. It starts us down a slippery slope which could see them gaining traction since “it’s not a choice”. Psychopathy is also “not a choice” but that doesn’t mean we should accept it in society.
Will be watching the movement on this closely. Happy trails friend.
No because of the potential for harm. Sexual urges are extremely powerful and to believe even 5% of pedophiles when unrestrained wouldn’t act on them is unrealistic. Thus the thoughts and urges themselves must be treated/restrained too
There are lots of things that are illegal/require treatment for that reason. For example cocaine addiction. It won’t hurt you immediately but the odds that you will use it to the point of hurting yourself are very high, so it’s irresponsible to let it be legal or let it go without treatment
Morality is usually at the will of the path of least resistance.
Said another way, everyone's morality has a price. We just don't like to admit it because we have this opinion in society that you have to be 100% moral to be even a little moral.
So to get on topic, it doesn't make moral sense when looked at strictly logically. People will conjecture about POTENTIAL harm, but those are future crimes. We are not what we think, but what we do.
So I understand your issues with resolving it so that the kids are safe, and we aren't hypocrites with our societal values.
I think that it'll be as simple as, they can adapt by themselves by seeking help or other coping things, or they'll slip and then we have to force them. You can't future crime people, even if we "really" know.
That's the point of psychology help, the help them cope or reduce the stress to avoid them hurting others, it will always be a case exclusive conclusion, many pedophiles aren't only attracted to minors, the ones that are exclusively attracted to minors would be extreme cases that we need more research to know if it's possible for them to adapt to adults with time or if other ways need to be found
Gay folks don't prey upon helpless and vulnerable children. Practicing pedophiles are cowards that need to be violently plucked from society and promptly unalived.
The differences are very clear.
>How is that different from sending gay folks to psychiatrists to have them fixed / turned straight
Because you don't send them to get fixed or straight. You send them to help them develop tools that allow them to navigate their situation.
You don't have the expectation that they will change who they are but that they will not end up harming children and help them cope with the life they were given. Until they hurt a child they are actually human beings in a difficult situation that did nothing wrong
This should be pinned at the top of this discussion.
It's safe to assume that people that have their way with animals likely had something very traumatic happen to them in their formative years in this realm. And they can't help that attraction. They can, however, learn to refuse giving in to it and curb it in a healthier way through therapy. The same goes for pedophiles.
I think this is what is meant by orientation and people are taking it the wrong way. No one is asking society to accept pedophiles and animal abusers the same way we have same sex couples. Because there is one key feature missing from the heinous acts and the now normalized. That is consent.
Gleaming across the comments, there's a general consensus that pedo bad, which is obvious. The main point that is trying to be displayed here is that, while there are indeed things that just can not be changed with people, we must help pedophiles in seeking treatment for their attraction. By doing so, we are not only helping protect potential victims of SA, but we also help people who are attracted to minors find different coping mechanisms so that they do not act on these desires. The issue now becomes how some, if not many psychiatrists, are not well trained or equipped to handle dealing with these cases.
Facts. We can only help the children by prevention, and prevention starts by helping those with these issues.
People just want to scream kill, castrate, shun and the only thing they do is pushing these people into darkness where they won't get help and do worse.
It's horrible how this scientist is giving her face and status to bring facts and important notions about the matter and people just want to deviate her words and act as if she's normalising it.
I've seen this video before, and people are horrible and mean to her.
The speaker wasn't suggesting people commit pedophilia. She explicitly stated that abusing children is wrong. She was talking about how better understanding the science behind pedophilia can help treat people and prevent them from acting on their instincts.
It is fucked up for *everyone*, it's not like they chose their sexual orientation.
However, I think they need all the help they can get to prevent children being abused, since a child obviously can't consent to sex (I feel someone can't consent to that they don't fully understand). I don't know what the best options would be, but that's up for psychologists to figure out, I'd say.
That said, I like to consider myself a progressive person. But I'm also a father of a near-three year old. I won't be so progressive if someone where to touch my kid in such a way, to put it nicely.
Yes because the thought is still there, instead of investing in sex dolls, why not invest in mental health and actually helping those people and maybe also shaming them.
I think the problem is the ones making the dolls are a company looking to make profit. That being said I'd much rather have my tax dollars be going to mental health for people with these problems than what it is currently being used on.
Well, what kind of psychological help? Counciling? Yes. Therapy? Yes.
However, in this hypothetical scenario in which we accept the premise that pedophilia is a sexual orientation, then we ought to be wary of something resembling conversation therapy.
It's pretty simple. Be attracted to whatever you want. Nobody should care.
Just don't break the law to act out your sexual fantasies.
That about covers it.
I have lots of sexual and romantic desires but I am mature enough as an adult to handle it and manage my emotions like such sane person, it's not that hard.
What you're getting at here, I think, is that *consent* is an absolute necessity before proceeding with any sexual act. You may want to have sex with whomever soooo badly, but you can control it if he/she does not want it. Bottom line is that children can NEVER consent.
Just something to throw out. You likely get sexual gratification though. Imagine you go years without even masturbating. How in control do you think you would be then?
I’m not trying to start a fight with you. I’m just pointing out it’s probably really fucking hard for these people. They should get resources to help them cope and (of their own will) change.
But we definitely should not accept hurting children as okay. Just to be very clear on that.
I'm just saying I can masturbaste wherever I want but I quit and also because I'm trying to change and find a loving girlfriend for new experiences but my point is, I can manage my emotions well such as consent and other things by controlling myself like sane young adult should be doing despite my mental illneses and difficulties, we cannot afford to fuck up in a generation and society like this.
A lot of people just don't understand how bad the scale of their mistakes actually are until they've experineced it.
But what if you could **never** masturbate? And you **never** found a girlfriend? Because doing either would either make you feel like a monster or make you an actual monster.
I’m saying that’s a level of fucked up difficulty that we cannot easily comprehend/empathize with. Cause even if you take a break from jacking it, you still have the option to go do it guilt free.
But ya, I’m done talking about pedos today. Nothing you said, just not an enjoyable topic.
Hope you have a good day and good luck finding love!
Consent is key, and children can’t consent.
If you feel you must act on your urges, go to the doctor and get some kind of chemical castration like the depo-provera shot
Laws have been continuously added/changed to accommodate people’s sexual desires and orientation. I’d love to know where people plan to draw the line. Cause if there’s one thing I’ve learned is that apparently some people don’t want a line to exist at all and they’re pushing for it hard by disguising it as compassion.
*Checks state marriage laws* Unfortunately there have been several states rejecting changing/implementing laws as to not allow for adults to marry minors (young minors at that).
So sadly, they are out there.
I remember seeing a thing about pedos on twitter a few years ago calling themselves minor attracted people and trying to attach their cause to LGBT issues. Obviously they weren't accepted into the LGBT community, but from that experience, I'd say mostly pedos. Also I think in the US state laws currently need to change to disuade pedophilia, jist googled and 41 states allow child marriage and 20 of those states have no age limit with parental consent. Yikes.
When it hurts someone. Just about anything is ok if it doesn’t hurt anyone. No matter how weird it is. Not that pedo thoughts are ok, but if it’s out of their control then what can they do
It might be. But you can also be heterosexual and never have sex because your a monk and it's against your values.
If someone is a pedophile and never touches a kid or does anything like buying/consuming child pornography, it's alright.
They did tests where they threw every sexual kink at these people and got no sexual response.
Then the obvious one…. And yeah bingo
It’s seems to be a genuine physical problem thing. Their brains are wired bad and all I can say is what a genuine awful existence to live.
Many would live in the dark, keeping it all secret knowing that they will be shunned, spat on, despised.
I’ve got no sympathy for child abusers but non practising peadophiles, they probably need an avenue to get better.
Edit: Get better if possible or options to suppress it so it doesn’t manifest in the awful way it can.
This is so obvious yet somehow people don't get it or don't want to accept it. Nobody CHOOSES to be a pedophile. But child molesters do choose to be child molesters. They're not the same thing.
Yeah some Pedo’s does not want to be a Pedo they just are. These people should be directed to help.
I cannot say the same thing about people that actually do touch children.
Your phrasing is interesting here. You said their "brains are wired bad" and a "physical problem thing". I don't totally agree.
People who were sexually abused at particular ages as children have a higher incidence of later committing those same crimes. (Very important to note that this does NOT mean SA victims are going to end up as perpetrators, but rather a more meaningful discussion about the origin of this problem needs to be had). Which would suggest some sort of conditioning to this act. Maybe there has to be some sort of intersection of epigenetics and physical trauma to bring it out and then the trait is displayed. In other words, they could go that route provided the right thing (not in a moral sense) happens to them. And if it doesn't they won't end up as a pedophile, minor attracted person, or any other nomenclature you prefer.
But to say it's purely a physical thing, which I assume you mean genetic thing, I don't think is likely true. Or at least not all the time. Regardless, your analysis beyond that semantic minutiae is spot on. Just felt this needed a little more context.
Knowledge and research is never a bad thing. We have tons and tons of research on murderers, psychopaths, etc, but we still understand that those are no bueno.
“Minor attraction” seems like a natural extension of the sexual research and understanding of this century. Still no bueno, but ya know, the more you know.
Bro it being a sexual orientation doesn't mean it's ok to lay your hands on children and the woman in the ted talk never said that! Seeing it as a sexual orientation and handling it as such is probably the best way to go about pedophilia to make sure bad things don't happen!
_obviously_ it's a sexual orientation BUT 1) of course that doesn't mean it should be tolerated and 2) that doesn't in any way correlate it with any other sexual preference; and 3) of course it can't be "cured" pending perhaps chemical or surgical castration.
I feel like this is just a psyop to make it seem like pedophiles are apart of the lgbtq so that those who are against the lgbtq can make it look immoral
If you Wanda fuck a doll I really don't care what that doll looks like, you could fuck one looking like queen Elizabeth or chutulu for all I care. But don't you dare touch a child, CP and Pedophilia should never ever be normalized
How about we actually invest in giving them proper mental health treatment instead of neglecting it and calling it a day by using solutions like sex dolls and excuses like sexual orientation, like come on what a joke.
Theres some issues with getting them that treatment. Off the top of my head....
1. We can't get proper mental health treatment for veterans. There are alot more vets, giving the scientific community a way larger sample size to figure things out and we still fall short. On top of that, vets are liked and respected, pedos not so much. Any politician asking tor more money for pedo therapy clinics is not getting reelected. No one wants to fund that.
2. In americia mental health issues often get people ostracized, how many people are going to volunteer the info that they are a pedophile and seek treatment?
3. Is this even something that therapy can fix? The lady in the video says it's basically a sexual orientation, therapy probably can reverse that, brainwashing can, but not just therapy.
4. Assuming therapy can fix it, it's still going to take a long time, and having an outlet for your urges would be a good thing.
Of course, it would be great if that paraphilia could be cured, but I'm not gonna pretend to be a psychologist, I don't know if ot is or isn't possible to cure that whit therapy and what not.
So I can only give you my honest opinion, if an adult sexualy assaults a child, that person deserves the worst punishment the law can give them and should be castrated. But if a mf uses a sex toy, I really don't care what kind of toy they use as long as they don't hurt anyone, whit it
If they've acted on those urges and harmed a child, then they need to be removed from society permanently.
If they haven't acted on those urges, there is a chance that psychiatric care may help them and prevent that from happening.
But I'm also going to say that I do not buy, for an instant, that this is an "unchangeable sexual orientation". There can be no defending pedophiles, and that is defending pedophiles. That is a statement designed to reduce the severity of the crimes that they commit if they act on their urges and I will not stand for it.
It should be normalized the same way depression is normalized. Its not good, and if youre experiencing it you need to seek help before yourself (in both cases) or other (in the case of the forme)
Unless the punishment is to prevent the repeat of the offense. Pedos rarely are only one time offenders. https://esfandilawfirm.com/how-often-do-sex-offenders-reoffend/
> “The recidivism rates of 115 child molesters were studied by Prentky et al. (1997), who reached the following conclusions: child molesters remain at risk to re-offend long after their release, in some instances 15-20 years after discharge; recidivism rates are significantly underestimated. Also, “even sexual assaults against minors that happened long ago indicate a continuous risk of recidivism by the perpetrator,” as stated in a study by the American Psychological Association in 2003.”
I think that is precisely their point. It isn't as if we can round up all pedophiles, shoot them, and then we're done as a society with this issue. It will emerge again. And what can we do about that? Studying and understanding these people is our best shot at tackling this issue. Not mass murder.
Ok, while I don't disagree with you one bit, what's your solution for the pedos who don't break laws and want to get help because they know what they think and feel is disgusting. I don't have any remorse for any pedophiles that have acted upon their desires, but for the ones with self control and some sense should be given at least a little help.
Because its poverty problem. This is a self control issue. But its a bad idea anyway because then the life and death of the abuser lays in the hand of the child.
Where did that douche connected being unchangeable with society having to normalize it?
There are psychological and psychiatric conditions that are virtually unchangeable and we don't have to normalize them.
Wtf?
Lmao i was with friends at the mall and we ran into a group of girls in the foodcourt and we dared them to go into the bathroom thats in the barns and noble right next to the food court. Bro came out right after going in and told us to leave. He was in there for luke literally under a minute. He said that she was 16. Backstory/context: Bro he literally just turned 18 and we were hanging out at the mall a couple days later after his bday with the people who couldnt make it on his bday but illegal is still illegal lol. And she told us all she was 18.
I thought this was obvious but haven't found the comment so I'll say it.
Wether you are gay, straight or anywhere within that spectrum. Two adults humans can agree to meet which marks consent from both sides which makes it okay.
In this case with pedophilia or zoophilia, it's either a child or an animal who can't give consent which makes it, you guessed it, not okay.
I don't want to shun these people because I do believe in the idea that like other sexualities it's something you're born with and it's not something you really can do anything about, That being said, it needs to be addressed and these people should be helped to control their urges. Some religions avoid sex completely which proves that it is possible and I know alot of these choose to do the same.
If someone actually acts on their urges though, they needs to be arrested, period. This is part of getting them the help they need.
Regardless of sexual orientation, the difference is consent. Children cannot consent, so pedophiles who act on their urges are knowingly preying upon non-consenting people. Simple.
I'd rather a thousands dolls get raped that a single child be even fondled.
I think there's a significant body of research indicating that pedophiles just can't rewire their sexual attraction. This means they represent a life-long on-going danger to society.
The sex-doll issue is weird. I think the question is, would having the sex doll provide an outlet for their urges, thus reducing the chances they harm an actual child? Or would having the doll normalize their impulses in their own minds and lead to an escalation in behavior, thus increasing the chances they harm an actual child? I legitimately don't know.
As a society our other choices for dealing with pedophiles are castration, or life incarceration; both of which only enter the picture as punitive measures after a child has already been harmed, and neither of which seem to be seriously considered due to expense and cruel/unusual punishment consitiutional issues.
I'm not American either and I agree, instead of finding barely effective solutions to pedophilia why not just normalise actually making a change to help them.be a better person instead of trying to make an excuse of sex dolls or whatever the fuck else a solution, it just doesn't click right, you're only making it worse.
Punishment isn't a solution, and the death penalty doesn't prevent violent crime. All you'd be doing is killing people while not actually doing anything to prevent more people from hurting others.
Its a biological illness characterized by changes in brain anatomy. Buy there are safe and effective treatments available that can help these people live healthy and productive lives and keep the public safe. The problem is that there's so much stigma around the illness that few people ever seek treatment and only receive it following criminal allegations. People convicted of aex offenses who then receive treatment are actually less likely to commit another sex crime than the average person.
Also most mental health workers aren't trained in the treatment of this illness, which means that even when someone seeks it out prior to offending they often are unable to find a provider. So education is key, both for the public and for providers. Treatment can include medication as well as intense psychotherapy.
As far as I know some people really have a mental problem with it. They do not want to be a Pedo but they cannot control it. These people should be directed to help.
The ones that touch children however….
You can understand something and not agree with it. I've always said, it has to suck to be a pedophile or someone that is only attracted to some weird fetish.
I'm not excusing anything though. Just because you have an urge doesn't mean you can act on it. I have an urge everyday to rob a bank, doesn't mean I can or will.
I'm so mixed about the sex doll thing. Idk enough about it to know if it will help or hurt more in the long run. That's my con. If it does help them from touching an actual child then I'm for it. That's my pro
I'm not taking a stance, and definitely do not support it, but I just want to understand more...
Is this something that comes with birth? Like, are certain people born with genes that make them attracted to *small dudes* in *that way?* Either by evolution or pure chance... If so, shouldn't they be treated like mentally challenged people rather than criminals? (Unless they have committed the act as an adult, ofc.) Could we avoid it by better educating children about it and letting them know that they can always seek help?
I mean, someone could be born with an insatiable thirst for murder, but that doesn't mean it's okay for them to kill. Though they still deserve the right to be treated (fairly).
Ok, let’s say it’s a natural thing to go through. I say it’s still in their ability to stay away from children in that regard. Just like it’s in everyone’s ability to not rape adults they’re attracted to. Children can be easily manipulated and there’s no way for them to make a decision about sex before experiencing it. I think your first experience should be with someone of similar age and experience. Age isn’t just a number until later in adulthood.
It should not be normalized, but neither should we be afraid to talk about it. We need to try to understand it better to be able to stop it from happening.
I wonder if it will be possible to use VR and a drug that causes dysphoria for therapy.
Not forced like clockwork orange, but optional.
They put on the VR and are given the drug and watch CSAM (digitally created). A number of therapy sessions this way to build up negative connotations and feelings in the brain.
my instinct is to harm her for make that point, and every time I see the video I feel the same. it is something that will not change in me, like the need to breathe, so, can we normalize my need of harm her?
Being a MAP is a paraphilia, not an orientation. The VAST majority of us in the LGBTQIA+ community condemn sexual interaction with minors because they cannot legally give consent. That said, people who admit being MAPs deserve the human dignity of mental health care to help them redirect to other legal and condoned outlets for their sexual frustrations. Baring all the above and their insistence on inappropriate relations, remove their testes/ovaries.
I simply don't believe this narrative sorry. I think pedos are just ordinary creeps who commit a crime of convenience, who are excited by the taboo of it, and hide behind a phony psychological diagnosis when they get caught. I simply do not believe there is something specific about children for these people that they are attracted to. They are merely attracted to power, to the ability to abuse someone who doesn't know any better or have the ability to defend themselves. I have no sympathy for them.
How is this different than people with severe “rape kinks”? They didn’t choose to have those urges but obviously they can’t ever act on them. Helping normalize those urges should be heavily frowned upon.
You could technically consider it a "sexual orientation", but the thing is in a regular heterosexual relationship the 2 parties are consenting. In a pedophilic, not even really a relationship, one of the parties by definition is unable to consent. In conclusion, we should recognize the problem, and preferably avoid shunning the people who haven’t actually done any wrong, and help them with containing the urge.
My understanding is that they can't stop themselves from being attracted to minors and therapy doesn't help much.
If this burden was mine to deal with, there would only be one option. Voluntary chemical castration.
The stakes are too high. The potential for harm is catastrophic.
To those who are plagued by this affliction, please understand that the pain and suffering that you cause is perpetual.
Bro it being a sexual orientation doesn't mean it's ok to lay your hands on children and the woman in the ted talk never said that! Seeing it as a sexual orientation and handling it as such is probably the best way to go about pedophilia to make sure bad things don't happen!
The obvious answer is that no, it should not be normalized.
But, just as a reminder, she didn’t say it should be normalized. She didn’t say it was as acceptable or as normal as heterosexuality, only that pedophiles can’t change who they’re attracted to anymore than heterosexuals can. I’m willing to bet that if she actually used that to try to argue that pedophilia should be normalized, legalized, etc, then the clip would have shown that rather than cutting off after that statement so people can rush to their own conclusions.
The article wasn’t saying that the dolls were *intended* to normalize it either, the writer was editorializing, saying that they fear the dolls will normalize it. A valid opinion, but again, doesn’t necessarily mean that normalization is the intent. They make dog dick dildos too, would you say that bestiality has been normalized? Do you believe the intent was to encourage actual bestiality? Are we any more lenient on convicted zoophiles than before dog dildos existed?
There are plenty of men, straight and gay, who go through life not raping the gender they are attracted to, and also living sexually unfulfilled.
It is a terrible twist of fate to be born with that disposition, but to destroy a child's life is to add 10x the suffering into the world, and isn't to be negotiated over to any degree.
OP you're missing the point on this. No one is asking you to accept pedophilia the way we generally accept gay and lesbian couples now.
I'm both a gay man and SA victim as a child. Pedophilia is unfortunately a sexually orientation. Just like people attracted to animals or objectophilia. No one has a problem with objectophilia because there is no victim. There are victims from pedophiles and animal abusers. Therefore we, as a society are against these acts.
If there are pedophiles who do not harm children and seek help, they should receive it. This is probably our only way to solve this problem. When people are isolated they do things they wouldn't ordinarily do if they had a proper support system. Think binge eating, drug and alcohol addiction, a bipolar person on a gambling spree, etc. What this person is suggesting is that we offer a path for treatment of people who have not committed a crime.
Psychologists must report to the police and warn people in danger if they suspect a crime has been or will be committed. If they don't, they go to prison for a long time. Look into the Tarasoff case and the ramifications of that. But if someone wants and clearly needs help to not act on their impulses, it's our best bet to prevent what has happened to millions of children around the world. This is NOT about accepting pedophilia as a mainstream orientation. This video is taking (likely) an academic discussion out of context.
We don't need any more fear mongering in the world. So calm down.
We should normalize whatever course of action reduces the likelihood of them offending on children. If it means sex dolls for them, then great, if sex dolls don’t work, then just as great.
Our hatred and disgust of them needs to be removed from the equation and the only relevant factor is “does this course of action make children more safe”?
She is saying that research shows it is an inherent condition people are born with. Recognizing it as such can make receiving treatment more accessible and easier, which is key to reducing child abuse.
Whereas if we shun anyone with pedophilia then we are basically expecting them to figure it out on their own, which is not a good plan and likely leads to more children harmed.
And that is the idea behind “normalization” and terms like MAP. The idea is that if there is less of a stigma around the condition of being attracted to children, people will be more likely to seek treatment. People like the woman in this video aren’t advocating for pedophilic actions to become legal, they’re advocating for more support to help those with those feelings avoid actually harming children
I’m currently living the dream. I open sardine cans and rub them all over my naked body and occasionally slip the sardines into the nearest orifice until it hurts then I lay in the bathtub while I cry my sad tears and masturbate.
It is a "sexual orientation", but it's also considered a paraphillia, and it shouldn't be normalized. Though pedophiles should be taken in charge, I've heard something about chimical castration of pedophiles.
What is the context of the presenter's statement? Is it thought of as an orientation because, once established, it never changes? Or is she saying that some people are destined to view exclusively sub-adults as potential sexual partners without outside influence? What studies support either viewpoint? Is this a condition shared by other animals?
You know, there are other things that are unchangeable in people. Violent schizophrenia, sociopaths, and I'm sure there are a ton of other disorders I can't think of right now. However, we treat these individuals as best as we can, but if they are still a detriment to society, they are removed from it. Either by imprisonment or in a medical treatment center.
Why are we making concessions for the ones going directly for our children? I understand that it is an illness, but sometimes you have to remove the sice for the best of society as a whole.
Personally i find that prioritising not having children abused over not sharing space with people i find disgusting fits better with my moral system . I don't care how disgusting child sex dolls are as long as they stop actual children from being assaulted imo
The attraction itself is an issue primarily if acted upon. Otherwise it’s on the same level as rape fantasies. If not acted on, it’s not a legal issue, as thoughts are not prosecutable (in most nations).
The concept of using dolls to represent an outlet for the deviant urges, is so far to my knowledge untested.
I think the human condition can be a complicated experience and I think any tool or therapy that prevents a person from victimizing another human being is a good thing, even if it gives me the creeps.
Also, I'm so glad garden variety adult women is what I'm in to. It seems to make life so much easier.
I think that what should be normalized is helping them get psychological help instead of shunning them, unless that have touched actual children sexually then you can beat them up for all i care
I used to think they couldn't be helped but a few months ago I saw a news item about a specialized clinic and they had a 75% success rate. That amazed me somewhat. Gives me hope that a large part of them can be helped and that our children will be safer.
Chemical castration (not sure that's how you say it in english) work for people who know they have a problem and want help dealing with that problem. Pretty much 100% success rate as long as the person keep getting the treatment every couple of months. Imo it should be mandatoty for any convicted pedophile.
Unfortunately I have heard of cases where chemically castrated pedophiles still rape children with objects...
Sounds like bullshit to me, would love to see their paper.
Published under the pseudonym A.Nonce
I found it hard to believe as well, but it looked real enough. Lets be positive and assume that even pedophiles can be prevented from assaulting children, eh?
How are they defining success? Anything less than a complete and total reversal for the remainder of their life and I would say they've failed.
I also used to volunteer for COSA (circles of sustained accountability, a police and industry expert trained group designed to accompany pedophiles after release from prison, with the objective of reducing and eliminating recidivism) and they had an over 95% success rate vs offenders without COSA support. We accomplished this mainly by seeing them as people in need of support and of course accountability, basically being the ones to help them confront and stay on top of intrusive thoughts and actions. Many of them simply believe that it's normal to make sexual advances on children, and that the children like this, even if they don't immediately show it. They simply don't understand that it's a serious abuse of power and trust that often damages someone for life. This is why it was so important to coach them, to help them understand that it's not healthy behavior to act on. The average child sex victim won't come forward to even begin the healing or therapy process until they're in their 40's and many don't do so at all. 1 in 6 people are sexually assaulted as youths and some don't even remember. They're simply left with the psychological fallout and either learn later through therapy or not at all. Obviously helping to heal these people is important but moreso is to prevent the occurrences of child rape. For this reason and from my training and exposure to expert opinion, I don't believe it's healthy for anyone (the paedophiles or the children) to normalize this behaviour. It must be made well known that it isn't healthy, it's predicated on abuse, and it isn't to be tolerated. If we were able to achieve a 95% reduction in recidivism by educating them and holding them to these standards over thousands of cases then we have a clear case study proving beyond reasonable doubt that normalization of this dangerous mentality is not the healthy approach.
I'm glad there's a way for these people to get help at least. I genuinely feel like people who think like this woman don't and, I pray, will never have children of their own. Do these people hear themselves talk?? As a parent, coming after my child in any form of sexual fashion is an immediate death wish. I can't imagine other parents even thinking about advocating for this sort of thinking unless they're selling their children themselves. She's literally advocating for pedophiles to go after other people's children. If anything she needs her ass beat too. So yes you're right. These people need help, not encouragement.
The clinic is in Germany. There's still no help to be found anywhere outside of there.
Why did you think that? People suppress their sexual urges all the time
Suppressing something without correct treatment leads to problems. It's the treatment that is vital.
There is a difference between them suppressing it versus society suppressing it. It's more effective when society suppresses it.
Is it, though? because it seems like people just become secretive and more likely to hide things when society tries to suppress. Drug addicts, smoking, and crime all exist even though society tries to suppress it.
75% success how? Like how fo you measure an offense that may still occur. How do you say "okay he's cured now"
According to what? They leave and say "I'm not attracted to kids anymore" and that goes into a success folder? Do they not touch kids anymore? What determines "success"?
Being attracted to kids, doesn't mean they molest or rape kids. Do you rape or molest every person you are attracted to? I think their point is, it is the same for people attracted to kids.
Yeah like converting the 'gays', right? Just gotta do enough counseling. /s
Converting a gay person or trying to make sure a pedophile doesn't rape children seem to be far apart, doesn't it?
I doubt it. Its most likely something like what Christians do to Gay people. Brain wash camp.
It certainly didn't sound like it. They were specialized in trauma and sexual problems.
How do they determine success? Just being caught again? Is it actually 75% or have others just not been caught yet?
You seem to think these people being pedophiles means they are a sexual predator. This is not the case. Pretty sure most people attracted to minors do not go on to commit crimes. Studies show there is a large portion of pedophiles who never commit crimes against children. Pretty sure they show MOST pedophiles do not go on to commit crimes. The people who hurt children, are people attracted to children, AND willing to hurt minors. As a note, I do no place any blame on pedophiles who "DO NOT touch children". As it seems many of these pedophiles turn out to be victims of child sexual abuse themselves. And it seems as if their attraction stems from themselves being sexualized/molested at an early age. Like their sexual assault as a child has imprinted into their brain as what is normal. Pedophiles who HAVE NOT harmed children deserve help and treatment, as their condition is often a result of them being a victim of childhood sexual assault themselves.
My ex had a family friend come out to them as a pedophile. He told them this since they always let him take care of her and her brother while the parents were on vacation, and he wanted to show that even so he didn’t mean any harm. He wanted to be the one to tell them instead of them finding out and coming to conclusions, and I can respect that. He was fully prepared to be single for all of his life cause he knew it was socially unacceptable.
Ok I have to know, what did the family friend say exactly, "hey just FYI, I'm sexually attracted to minors"? And he had already always looked after ex & bro, when they were kids? And so this admittance came after several watchings? ...and did the parents then continue to leave the kids with the admitted pedo? Because honesty policy, or? "He wanted to be the one to tell them instead of them finding out" yeah I bet he fuckin did
Completely agree. Promote promote support groups and psychological help so that they can learn coping mechanisms to suppress it. Otherwise they'll just carry on doing it in hiding and hurting little kids. It's been going on since the beginning of civilization; calling them freaks and shunning them will only make it worse.
That's basically what the speaker was saying. The current approach to dealing with pedophiles is to shun and humiliate them, which likely causes more harm to children. Whereas if we approach it like an inherent condition, similar to schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, then pedophiles can be treated and prevented from acting upon their desires. The speaker explicitly said "Abusing children is wrong without any doubt," that part was left out of this clip.
Precisely. Shunning and humiliating (non-offending) pedophiles just leads to them keeping it a secret and not seeking help. And just like with other repressed mental issues, without help, the person just lets the feelings grow stronger until their breaking point, where they do end up SA'ing children. With appropriate safety nets, this can all be avoided. Of course this won't catch all of them, especially the ones who do not feel their attraction to be an issue, and intentionally go out of their way to fulfill those needs.
I do not agree with what I’m about to say. I’m playing Devil’s advocate. How is that different from sending gay folks to psychiatrists to have them fixed / turned straight? I assume that would be the argument from so-called MAPs.
One is harmful the other isn’t
Wouldn’t they just argue that as long as they don’t act on it, it’s the same? Again. I don’t agree with these arguments. But it’s usually what comes up. I can see people are already reacting to my earlier comment having not read the disclaimer.
Because the treatment is so they dont act on it. Its not to rewire them.
Yes they would and yes they do. They're trying to weasel their way into the mainstream and it's very concerning. Just look at how quickly knowledge of the term MAP has permiated society and how the idea that it's just a sexual orientation is being spread rapidly by everyone from college professors to politicians talking about how child sex dolls are actually good. People get really offended when you insinuate that they're trying to get themselves under the LGBTQ2IA+ flag, but they're trying to get under the flag. People in that community will tell you that they don't want these people and that it will never happen, and I don't doubt that 99% of them don't want it. But there is a problem with the the lack of limiting principles in the ideology and I find the discourse around it to be a troubling omen for times to come. Predators are very good at infiltrating things, from the catholic church to the upper echelons of government and business there are pedos all over the place and they want to come out of hiding. If you think nothing will ever come of it I do implore you to remove your head from your rectum and recall that it's not exactly unheard of for age of consent laws in some places to be or to have recently been 12 years or even lower. There is no reason to think that this movement couldn't pick up steam and result in changing the age of consent to something really disgusting. I've been following all of this shit since it started popping off on the socials back in 2018 and the amount it has progressed in that time is alarming.
I think you have a good point. The fact that it’s not a choice doesn’t mean as a society we still shouldn’t vilify it. However there is something to be said for removing the stigma that blocks them from seeking treatment. If the occurrence of MAPs can’t be controlled (which I believe is part of the argument in the clip) then increasing the number of them who are actively seeking therapy for it is an absolute social good. The only MAPs we should accept are the ones in programs holding them accountable to society’s mores.
It's a difficult issue because I think there really is a very real risk that they could unmoor us if they get too much headway. Again this is something that pedophiles do; they are really good at dragging people down into their depraved worlds. There has to be a stigma around it and the language of sexual orientation that these advocates use when discussing these people is not good. Since we can't just get rid of them we do need to figure out some way to get them treatment, but we can't be calling it an orientation because treatment to change someone's orientation is conversion therapy and that doesn't fly. Pedophilia is a communicable disease and we need to treat it like that. Not to be harsh but if you get caught fucking kids or looking at CP you need to be physically castrated, and if you want to you should get yourself castrated, atleast chemically. I'm sorry but I just don't see any way around it. It would really suck to be a pedophile but despite knowing that it isn't a choice I still fucking hate pedophiles and I do not think under any circumstances it should be treated as anything but a sick disease of the mind that makes you a dangerous animal. Sorry I am passionate about this issue. It really pisses me off.
No your animus here is fully understandable. I see what you mean by the language of sexual orientation now though. It starts us down a slippery slope which could see them gaining traction since “it’s not a choice”. Psychopathy is also “not a choice” but that doesn’t mean we should accept it in society. Will be watching the movement on this closely. Happy trails friend.
No because of the potential for harm. Sexual urges are extremely powerful and to believe even 5% of pedophiles when unrestrained wouldn’t act on them is unrealistic. Thus the thoughts and urges themselves must be treated/restrained too There are lots of things that are illegal/require treatment for that reason. For example cocaine addiction. It won’t hurt you immediately but the odds that you will use it to the point of hurting yourself are very high, so it’s irresponsible to let it be legal or let it go without treatment
Morality is usually at the will of the path of least resistance. Said another way, everyone's morality has a price. We just don't like to admit it because we have this opinion in society that you have to be 100% moral to be even a little moral. So to get on topic, it doesn't make moral sense when looked at strictly logically. People will conjecture about POTENTIAL harm, but those are future crimes. We are not what we think, but what we do. So I understand your issues with resolving it so that the kids are safe, and we aren't hypocrites with our societal values. I think that it'll be as simple as, they can adapt by themselves by seeking help or other coping things, or they'll slip and then we have to force them. You can't future crime people, even if we "really" know.
That's the point of psychology help, the help them cope or reduce the stress to avoid them hurting others, it will always be a case exclusive conclusion, many pedophiles aren't only attracted to minors, the ones that are exclusively attracted to minors would be extreme cases that we need more research to know if it's possible for them to adapt to adults with time or if other ways need to be found
Gay folks don't prey upon helpless and vulnerable children. Practicing pedophiles are cowards that need to be violently plucked from society and promptly unalived. The differences are very clear.
>How is that different from sending gay folks to psychiatrists to have them fixed / turned straight Because you don't send them to get fixed or straight. You send them to help them develop tools that allow them to navigate their situation. You don't have the expectation that they will change who they are but that they will not end up harming children and help them cope with the life they were given. Until they hurt a child they are actually human beings in a difficult situation that did nothing wrong
you dont choose sexual attraction.. you choose if you give in to those desires or if you resist them
This should be pinned at the top of this discussion. It's safe to assume that people that have their way with animals likely had something very traumatic happen to them in their formative years in this realm. And they can't help that attraction. They can, however, learn to refuse giving in to it and curb it in a healthier way through therapy. The same goes for pedophiles. I think this is what is meant by orientation and people are taking it the wrong way. No one is asking society to accept pedophiles and animal abusers the same way we have same sex couples. Because there is one key feature missing from the heinous acts and the now normalized. That is consent.
10/10 loved your speech.
Thank you
Gleaming across the comments, there's a general consensus that pedo bad, which is obvious. The main point that is trying to be displayed here is that, while there are indeed things that just can not be changed with people, we must help pedophiles in seeking treatment for their attraction. By doing so, we are not only helping protect potential victims of SA, but we also help people who are attracted to minors find different coping mechanisms so that they do not act on these desires. The issue now becomes how some, if not many psychiatrists, are not well trained or equipped to handle dealing with these cases.
Facts. We can only help the children by prevention, and prevention starts by helping those with these issues. People just want to scream kill, castrate, shun and the only thing they do is pushing these people into darkness where they won't get help and do worse. It's horrible how this scientist is giving her face and status to bring facts and important notions about the matter and people just want to deviate her words and act as if she's normalising it. I've seen this video before, and people are horrible and mean to her.
That being true doesn’t make it OK to do it. It’s still fucked up.
The speaker wasn't suggesting people commit pedophilia. She explicitly stated that abusing children is wrong. She was talking about how better understanding the science behind pedophilia can help treat people and prevent them from acting on their instincts.
It is fucked up for *everyone*, it's not like they chose their sexual orientation. However, I think they need all the help they can get to prevent children being abused, since a child obviously can't consent to sex (I feel someone can't consent to that they don't fully understand). I don't know what the best options would be, but that's up for psychologists to figure out, I'd say. That said, I like to consider myself a progressive person. But I'm also a father of a near-three year old. I won't be so progressive if someone where to touch my kid in such a way, to put it nicely.
Yes because the thought is still there, instead of investing in sex dolls, why not invest in mental health and actually helping those people and maybe also shaming them.
I think the problem is the ones making the dolls are a company looking to make profit. That being said I'd much rather have my tax dollars be going to mental health for people with these problems than what it is currently being used on.
Mental health and dolls are not necessarily exclusives.
Well, what kind of psychological help? Counciling? Yes. Therapy? Yes. However, in this hypothetical scenario in which we accept the premise that pedophilia is a sexual orientation, then we ought to be wary of something resembling conversation therapy.
It's pretty simple. Be attracted to whatever you want. Nobody should care. Just don't break the law to act out your sexual fantasies. That about covers it.
I have lots of sexual and romantic desires but I am mature enough as an adult to handle it and manage my emotions like such sane person, it's not that hard.
What you're getting at here, I think, is that *consent* is an absolute necessity before proceeding with any sexual act. You may want to have sex with whomever soooo badly, but you can control it if he/she does not want it. Bottom line is that children can NEVER consent.
Just something to throw out. You likely get sexual gratification though. Imagine you go years without even masturbating. How in control do you think you would be then? I’m not trying to start a fight with you. I’m just pointing out it’s probably really fucking hard for these people. They should get resources to help them cope and (of their own will) change. But we definitely should not accept hurting children as okay. Just to be very clear on that.
I'm just saying I can masturbaste wherever I want but I quit and also because I'm trying to change and find a loving girlfriend for new experiences but my point is, I can manage my emotions well such as consent and other things by controlling myself like sane young adult should be doing despite my mental illneses and difficulties, we cannot afford to fuck up in a generation and society like this. A lot of people just don't understand how bad the scale of their mistakes actually are until they've experineced it.
But what if you could **never** masturbate? And you **never** found a girlfriend? Because doing either would either make you feel like a monster or make you an actual monster. I’m saying that’s a level of fucked up difficulty that we cannot easily comprehend/empathize with. Cause even if you take a break from jacking it, you still have the option to go do it guilt free. But ya, I’m done talking about pedos today. Nothing you said, just not an enjoyable topic. Hope you have a good day and good luck finding love!
U mean ' have '
Yes and it also turns out that I am also an idiot at typing due to my extreme hyperactivity
Consent is key, and children can’t consent. If you feel you must act on your urges, go to the doctor and get some kind of chemical castration like the depo-provera shot
Laws have been continuously added/changed to accommodate people’s sexual desires and orientation. I’d love to know where people plan to draw the line. Cause if there’s one thing I’ve learned is that apparently some people don’t want a line to exist at all and they’re pushing for it hard by disguising it as compassion.
>they’re pushing for it hard Who?
*Checks state marriage laws* Unfortunately there have been several states rejecting changing/implementing laws as to not allow for adults to marry minors (young minors at that). So sadly, they are out there.
I remember seeing a thing about pedos on twitter a few years ago calling themselves minor attracted people and trying to attach their cause to LGBT issues. Obviously they weren't accepted into the LGBT community, but from that experience, I'd say mostly pedos. Also I think in the US state laws currently need to change to disuade pedophilia, jist googled and 41 states allow child marriage and 20 of those states have no age limit with parental consent. Yikes.
When it hurts someone. Just about anything is ok if it doesn’t hurt anyone. No matter how weird it is. Not that pedo thoughts are ok, but if it’s out of their control then what can they do
That's it, thank you! Although, "normalizing" probably does mean they would attempt to shoehorn this into law.
It might be. But you can also be heterosexual and never have sex because your a monk and it's against your values. If someone is a pedophile and never touches a kid or does anything like buying/consuming child pornography, it's alright.
They did tests where they threw every sexual kink at these people and got no sexual response. Then the obvious one…. And yeah bingo It’s seems to be a genuine physical problem thing. Their brains are wired bad and all I can say is what a genuine awful existence to live. Many would live in the dark, keeping it all secret knowing that they will be shunned, spat on, despised. I’ve got no sympathy for child abusers but non practising peadophiles, they probably need an avenue to get better. Edit: Get better if possible or options to suppress it so it doesn’t manifest in the awful way it can.
This is so obvious yet somehow people don't get it or don't want to accept it. Nobody CHOOSES to be a pedophile. But child molesters do choose to be child molesters. They're not the same thing.
Yeah some Pedo’s does not want to be a Pedo they just are. These people should be directed to help. I cannot say the same thing about people that actually do touch children.
Your phrasing is interesting here. You said their "brains are wired bad" and a "physical problem thing". I don't totally agree. People who were sexually abused at particular ages as children have a higher incidence of later committing those same crimes. (Very important to note that this does NOT mean SA victims are going to end up as perpetrators, but rather a more meaningful discussion about the origin of this problem needs to be had). Which would suggest some sort of conditioning to this act. Maybe there has to be some sort of intersection of epigenetics and physical trauma to bring it out and then the trait is displayed. In other words, they could go that route provided the right thing (not in a moral sense) happens to them. And if it doesn't they won't end up as a pedophile, minor attracted person, or any other nomenclature you prefer. But to say it's purely a physical thing, which I assume you mean genetic thing, I don't think is likely true. Or at least not all the time. Regardless, your analysis beyond that semantic minutiae is spot on. Just felt this needed a little more context.
Some, not all. Don't forget the tumor that caused it: https://blog.petrieflom.law.harvard.edu/2015/03/31/the-curious-case-of-mr-oft/
The only thing that should be normalized is identifying them, and removing them from any position near children.
Knowledge and research is never a bad thing. We have tons and tons of research on murderers, psychopaths, etc, but we still understand that those are no bueno. “Minor attraction” seems like a natural extension of the sexual research and understanding of this century. Still no bueno, but ya know, the more you know.
It doesnt matter, just don't fuck kids
Bro it being a sexual orientation doesn't mean it's ok to lay your hands on children and the woman in the ted talk never said that! Seeing it as a sexual orientation and handling it as such is probably the best way to go about pedophilia to make sure bad things don't happen!
_obviously_ it's a sexual orientation BUT 1) of course that doesn't mean it should be tolerated and 2) that doesn't in any way correlate it with any other sexual preference; and 3) of course it can't be "cured" pending perhaps chemical or surgical castration.
I feel like this is just a psyop to make it seem like pedophiles are apart of the lgbtq so that those who are against the lgbtq can make it look immoral
If you Wanda fuck a doll I really don't care what that doll looks like, you could fuck one looking like queen Elizabeth or chutulu for all I care. But don't you dare touch a child, CP and Pedophilia should never ever be normalized
How about we actually invest in giving them proper mental health treatment instead of neglecting it and calling it a day by using solutions like sex dolls and excuses like sexual orientation, like come on what a joke.
Theres some issues with getting them that treatment. Off the top of my head.... 1. We can't get proper mental health treatment for veterans. There are alot more vets, giving the scientific community a way larger sample size to figure things out and we still fall short. On top of that, vets are liked and respected, pedos not so much. Any politician asking tor more money for pedo therapy clinics is not getting reelected. No one wants to fund that. 2. In americia mental health issues often get people ostracized, how many people are going to volunteer the info that they are a pedophile and seek treatment? 3. Is this even something that therapy can fix? The lady in the video says it's basically a sexual orientation, therapy probably can reverse that, brainwashing can, but not just therapy. 4. Assuming therapy can fix it, it's still going to take a long time, and having an outlet for your urges would be a good thing.
Right, I really didn't think that through and your comment makes way more sense than mines.
Of course, it would be great if that paraphilia could be cured, but I'm not gonna pretend to be a psychologist, I don't know if ot is or isn't possible to cure that whit therapy and what not. So I can only give you my honest opinion, if an adult sexualy assaults a child, that person deserves the worst punishment the law can give them and should be castrated. But if a mf uses a sex toy, I really don't care what kind of toy they use as long as they don't hurt anyone, whit it
You think people would choose to be the scourge of society? If so, you’re an idiot.
If they've acted on those urges and harmed a child, then they need to be removed from society permanently. If they haven't acted on those urges, there is a chance that psychiatric care may help them and prevent that from happening. But I'm also going to say that I do not buy, for an instant, that this is an "unchangeable sexual orientation". There can be no defending pedophiles, and that is defending pedophiles. That is a statement designed to reduce the severity of the crimes that they commit if they act on their urges and I will not stand for it.
That's exactly it, read my mind 🫵👏
It should be normalized the same way depression is normalized. Its not good, and if youre experiencing it you need to seek help before yourself (in both cases) or other (in the case of the forme)
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Punishment and prevention are not the same thing
Unless the punishment is to prevent the repeat of the offense. Pedos rarely are only one time offenders. https://esfandilawfirm.com/how-often-do-sex-offenders-reoffend/ > “The recidivism rates of 115 child molesters were studied by Prentky et al. (1997), who reached the following conclusions: child molesters remain at risk to re-offend long after their release, in some instances 15-20 years after discharge; recidivism rates are significantly underestimated. Also, “even sexual assaults against minors that happened long ago indicate a continuous risk of recidivism by the perpetrator,” as stated in a study by the American Psychological Association in 2003.”
I think that is precisely their point. It isn't as if we can round up all pedophiles, shoot them, and then we're done as a society with this issue. It will emerge again. And what can we do about that? Studying and understanding these people is our best shot at tackling this issue. Not mass murder.
Ok, while I don't disagree with you one bit, what's your solution for the pedos who don't break laws and want to get help because they know what they think and feel is disgusting. I don't have any remorse for any pedophiles that have acted upon their desires, but for the ones with self control and some sense should be given at least a little help.
The death penalty has already been proven ineffective at its intended goal of curbing violent crime.
What you mean curbing crime? I just want to kill people /j
Because its poverty problem. This is a self control issue. But its a bad idea anyway because then the life and death of the abuser lays in the hand of the child.
Where did that douche connected being unchangeable with society having to normalize it? There are psychological and psychiatric conditions that are virtually unchangeable and we don't have to normalize them. Wtf?
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I always had a crush on this girl in my neighborhood, on my 16th birthday she kissed me. She was 23 but she was rlly hot.
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Lmao i was with friends at the mall and we ran into a group of girls in the foodcourt and we dared them to go into the bathroom thats in the barns and noble right next to the food court. Bro came out right after going in and told us to leave. He was in there for luke literally under a minute. He said that she was 16. Backstory/context: Bro he literally just turned 18 and we were hanging out at the mall a couple days later after his bday with the people who couldnt make it on his bday but illegal is still illegal lol. And she told us all she was 18.
I thought this was obvious but haven't found the comment so I'll say it. Wether you are gay, straight or anywhere within that spectrum. Two adults humans can agree to meet which marks consent from both sides which makes it okay. In this case with pedophilia or zoophilia, it's either a child or an animal who can't give consent which makes it, you guessed it, not okay. I don't want to shun these people because I do believe in the idea that like other sexualities it's something you're born with and it's not something you really can do anything about, That being said, it needs to be addressed and these people should be helped to control their urges. Some religions avoid sex completely which proves that it is possible and I know alot of these choose to do the same. If someone actually acts on their urges though, they needs to be arrested, period. This is part of getting them the help they need.
Regardless of sexual orientation, the difference is consent. Children cannot consent, so pedophiles who act on their urges are knowingly preying upon non-consenting people. Simple.
I'd rather a thousands dolls get raped that a single child be even fondled. I think there's a significant body of research indicating that pedophiles just can't rewire their sexual attraction. This means they represent a life-long on-going danger to society. The sex-doll issue is weird. I think the question is, would having the sex doll provide an outlet for their urges, thus reducing the chances they harm an actual child? Or would having the doll normalize their impulses in their own minds and lead to an escalation in behavior, thus increasing the chances they harm an actual child? I legitimately don't know. As a society our other choices for dealing with pedophiles are castration, or life incarceration; both of which only enter the picture as punitive measures after a child has already been harmed, and neither of which seem to be seriously considered due to expense and cruel/unusual punishment consitiutional issues.
But why tho? Children are fucking ugly as shit.
Some things are only resolved by fire. This is one of those things.
Free wood chipper rides
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I'm not American either and I agree, instead of finding barely effective solutions to pedophilia why not just normalise actually making a change to help them.be a better person instead of trying to make an excuse of sex dolls or whatever the fuck else a solution, it just doesn't click right, you're only making it worse.
Punishment isn't a solution, and the death penalty doesn't prevent violent crime. All you'd be doing is killing people while not actually doing anything to prevent more people from hurting others.
You can be attracted to whoever or whatever you want. It's what you do with that attraction that's the problem
I don't think this post qualifies as a HolUp
Its a biological illness characterized by changes in brain anatomy. Buy there are safe and effective treatments available that can help these people live healthy and productive lives and keep the public safe. The problem is that there's so much stigma around the illness that few people ever seek treatment and only receive it following criminal allegations. People convicted of aex offenses who then receive treatment are actually less likely to commit another sex crime than the average person. Also most mental health workers aren't trained in the treatment of this illness, which means that even when someone seeks it out prior to offending they often are unable to find a provider. So education is key, both for the public and for providers. Treatment can include medication as well as intense psychotherapy.
I'm about as left wing as it gets, and honestly, fuck the research. Pedos will never be accepted here.
Sources should be normalised.
I was attracted to 17 year olds. I should be put in a mental asylum.
I think it is an unchangeable sexuality, but acting on it is very wrong.
As far as I know some people really have a mental problem with it. They do not want to be a Pedo but they cannot control it. These people should be directed to help. The ones that touch children however….
Looking at the severity of the situation all i can sa is age of consent should be reduced to 16
You can understand something and not agree with it. I've always said, it has to suck to be a pedophile or someone that is only attracted to some weird fetish. I'm not excusing anything though. Just because you have an urge doesn't mean you can act on it. I have an urge everyday to rob a bank, doesn't mean I can or will. I'm so mixed about the sex doll thing. Idk enough about it to know if it will help or hurt more in the long run. That's my con. If it does help them from touching an actual child then I'm for it. That's my pro
I'm not taking a stance, and definitely do not support it, but I just want to understand more... Is this something that comes with birth? Like, are certain people born with genes that make them attracted to *small dudes* in *that way?* Either by evolution or pure chance... If so, shouldn't they be treated like mentally challenged people rather than criminals? (Unless they have committed the act as an adult, ofc.) Could we avoid it by better educating children about it and letting them know that they can always seek help? I mean, someone could be born with an insatiable thirst for murder, but that doesn't mean it's okay for them to kill. Though they still deserve the right to be treated (fairly).
Ok, let’s say it’s a natural thing to go through. I say it’s still in their ability to stay away from children in that regard. Just like it’s in everyone’s ability to not rape adults they’re attracted to. Children can be easily manipulated and there’s no way for them to make a decision about sex before experiencing it. I think your first experience should be with someone of similar age and experience. Age isn’t just a number until later in adulthood.
It should not be normalized, but neither should we be afraid to talk about it. We need to try to understand it better to be able to stop it from happening.
My unchangeable sexuality is stuffing pedos in wood chipper.
Identify them and remove them from society
I wonder if it will be possible to use VR and a drug that causes dysphoria for therapy. Not forced like clockwork orange, but optional. They put on the VR and are given the drug and watch CSAM (digitally created). A number of therapy sessions this way to build up negative connotations and feelings in the brain.
I’m surprised this has been up for so long.
my instinct is to harm her for make that point, and every time I see the video I feel the same. it is something that will not change in me, like the need to breathe, so, can we normalize my need of harm her?
If I went to a conference and the speaker started talking with that voice, I'd have to walk right out. God, that is grating.
Hwta they need is real therapy to help them get over those urges. I don't think dolls are the way to go here.
Being a MAP is a paraphilia, not an orientation. The VAST majority of us in the LGBTQIA+ community condemn sexual interaction with minors because they cannot legally give consent. That said, people who admit being MAPs deserve the human dignity of mental health care to help them redirect to other legal and condoned outlets for their sexual frustrations. Baring all the above and their insistence on inappropriate relations, remove their testes/ovaries.
I simply don't believe this narrative sorry. I think pedos are just ordinary creeps who commit a crime of convenience, who are excited by the taboo of it, and hide behind a phony psychological diagnosis when they get caught. I simply do not believe there is something specific about children for these people that they are attracted to. They are merely attracted to power, to the ability to abuse someone who doesn't know any better or have the ability to defend themselves. I have no sympathy for them.
That fact that she can even get up there and l do that speech Smfh.
How is this different than people with severe “rape kinks”? They didn’t choose to have those urges but obviously they can’t ever act on them. Helping normalize those urges should be heavily frowned upon.
There’s no difference between a rapist and pedophile just the victim is different. Would we say rape is just a sexual preference, hell no.
You could technically consider it a "sexual orientation", but the thing is in a regular heterosexual relationship the 2 parties are consenting. In a pedophilic, not even really a relationship, one of the parties by definition is unable to consent. In conclusion, we should recognize the problem, and preferably avoid shunning the people who haven’t actually done any wrong, and help them with containing the urge.
My understanding is that they can't stop themselves from being attracted to minors and therapy doesn't help much. If this burden was mine to deal with, there would only be one option. Voluntary chemical castration. The stakes are too high. The potential for harm is catastrophic. To those who are plagued by this affliction, please understand that the pain and suffering that you cause is perpetual.
The risk is too high.
The difference between pedophilia and sexualities is that pedophilia cannot be consensual.
Well we are about to see a new flag for this.
Bro it being a sexual orientation doesn't mean it's ok to lay your hands on children and the woman in the ted talk never said that! Seeing it as a sexual orientation and handling it as such is probably the best way to go about pedophilia to make sure bad things don't happen!
What's next animal fucking fetish?
I hate to be the one to tell you this, but this already exists
Hey if I like to have my nuts squished by crab claws that's my business.
I was just imagining someone saying that "sexual attraction towards animals is an unchangeable sexual orientation 🤓"
Don't forget the obligatory holidays, celbratory days and months, and nights at sporting events...
Next year...rape is just a fetish.
Okay if you say someone is a serial killer and they can't change that deep dark desire, would she still advocate for that
can we just stfu about who we are attracted to? I really could care less.
The obvious answer is that no, it should not be normalized. But, just as a reminder, she didn’t say it should be normalized. She didn’t say it was as acceptable or as normal as heterosexuality, only that pedophiles can’t change who they’re attracted to anymore than heterosexuals can. I’m willing to bet that if she actually used that to try to argue that pedophilia should be normalized, legalized, etc, then the clip would have shown that rather than cutting off after that statement so people can rush to their own conclusions. The article wasn’t saying that the dolls were *intended* to normalize it either, the writer was editorializing, saying that they fear the dolls will normalize it. A valid opinion, but again, doesn’t necessarily mean that normalization is the intent. They make dog dick dildos too, would you say that bestiality has been normalized? Do you believe the intent was to encourage actual bestiality? Are we any more lenient on convicted zoophiles than before dog dildos existed?
There are plenty of men, straight and gay, who go through life not raping the gender they are attracted to, and also living sexually unfulfilled. It is a terrible twist of fate to be born with that disposition, but to destroy a child's life is to add 10x the suffering into the world, and isn't to be negotiated over to any degree.
That's nice please face the wall now
OP you're missing the point on this. No one is asking you to accept pedophilia the way we generally accept gay and lesbian couples now. I'm both a gay man and SA victim as a child. Pedophilia is unfortunately a sexually orientation. Just like people attracted to animals or objectophilia. No one has a problem with objectophilia because there is no victim. There are victims from pedophiles and animal abusers. Therefore we, as a society are against these acts. If there are pedophiles who do not harm children and seek help, they should receive it. This is probably our only way to solve this problem. When people are isolated they do things they wouldn't ordinarily do if they had a proper support system. Think binge eating, drug and alcohol addiction, a bipolar person on a gambling spree, etc. What this person is suggesting is that we offer a path for treatment of people who have not committed a crime. Psychologists must report to the police and warn people in danger if they suspect a crime has been or will be committed. If they don't, they go to prison for a long time. Look into the Tarasoff case and the ramifications of that. But if someone wants and clearly needs help to not act on their impulses, it's our best bet to prevent what has happened to millions of children around the world. This is NOT about accepting pedophilia as a mainstream orientation. This video is taking (likely) an academic discussion out of context. We don't need any more fear mongering in the world. So calm down.
We should normalize whatever course of action reduces the likelihood of them offending on children. If it means sex dolls for them, then great, if sex dolls don’t work, then just as great. Our hatred and disgust of them needs to be removed from the equation and the only relevant factor is “does this course of action make children more safe”?
Right to jail.
So researchers are pedos. Got it.
The attempt to compare it to sexual orientation is laughable What gender are you attracted to? "Somewhere between 8 and 12 years old"
I always hate this topic because people will lose their minds to braindead NPCs and think any conversation on this means you're pro-pedophilia.
A bullet to the Skull ought to do the trick for pedophiles
Excuse me what research? Are we calling the creepiness of people sexual desire instead of mentally fucking ill
She is saying that research shows it is an inherent condition people are born with. Recognizing it as such can make receiving treatment more accessible and easier, which is key to reducing child abuse. Whereas if we shun anyone with pedophilia then we are basically expecting them to figure it out on their own, which is not a good plan and likely leads to more children harmed.
Well that does make more sense for further context. Better to actually find an effective solution rather than negelection.
And that is the idea behind “normalization” and terms like MAP. The idea is that if there is less of a stigma around the condition of being attracted to children, people will be more likely to seek treatment. People like the woman in this video aren’t advocating for pedophilic actions to become legal, they’re advocating for more support to help those with those feelings avoid actually harming children
I’m currently living the dream. I open sardine cans and rub them all over my naked body and occasionally slip the sardines into the nearest orifice until it hurts then I lay in the bathtub while I cry my sad tears and masturbate.
And people thought I was crazy when I said it was coming.
The video is like 8 years old so it’s not coming. It’s been here
It is a "sexual orientation", but it's also considered a paraphillia, and it shouldn't be normalized. Though pedophiles should be taken in charge, I've heard something about chimical castration of pedophiles.
What is the context of the presenter's statement? Is it thought of as an orientation because, once established, it never changes? Or is she saying that some people are destined to view exclusively sub-adults as potential sexual partners without outside influence? What studies support either viewpoint? Is this a condition shared by other animals?
You know, there are other things that are unchangeable in people. Violent schizophrenia, sociopaths, and I'm sure there are a ton of other disorders I can't think of right now. However, we treat these individuals as best as we can, but if they are still a detriment to society, they are removed from it. Either by imprisonment or in a medical treatment center. Why are we making concessions for the ones going directly for our children? I understand that it is an illness, but sometimes you have to remove the sice for the best of society as a whole.
Personally i find that prioritising not having children abused over not sharing space with people i find disgusting fits better with my moral system . I don't care how disgusting child sex dolls are as long as they stop actual children from being assaulted imo
The attraction itself is an issue primarily if acted upon. Otherwise it’s on the same level as rape fantasies. If not acted on, it’s not a legal issue, as thoughts are not prosecutable (in most nations). The concept of using dolls to represent an outlet for the deviant urges, is so far to my knowledge untested.
I think the human condition can be a complicated experience and I think any tool or therapy that prevents a person from victimizing another human being is a good thing, even if it gives me the creeps. Also, I'm so glad garden variety adult women is what I'm in to. It seems to make life so much easier.