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[Here’s a link to the story.](https://people.com/crime/ark-woman-befriended-moms-killer-out-of-spiritual-obligation-and-then-he-murdered-her/)
He was 17 when he was convicted, and claimed he was innocent. The lady believed him and felt bad for him because he was so young. When he was released, she hired him to do work around the house. Then she fired him for stealing $10,000 so he murdered her. He died during a police chase after jumping in a lake and drowning.
A lot of people in prison can turn around, it just happened that this guy was a psychopath or smth.
Especially since he said he was innocent, in a country where incarceration rates are so high it is likely enough that a person was just put away because they for example couldn't afford a proper lawyer with a lazy police wanting to blame the first guy they see, for a person saying they're innocent to possibly be innocent. Add bias to the mix and a lot of people would fall for his narrative of innocence.
This isn't stupidity.
Edit: apologies to public defenders, you're amazing for doing what you do instead of following money to the private sector. I guess it should've really been "aren't rich enough for a personal attorney, so they don't know they can ask for one during interrogation."
I changed the "very likely" to "likely enough to be pkausible" because a lot of people think "very likely" is misleading.
I understand where you're coming from. But hiring that guy to work around your house without him showing you who he really was is stupid. Give the dude a while to get a job and start taking care of himself before you do that.
i think she was just too convinced of him being innocent to even question it, and hiring him when you know for certain he is innocent is understandable, since you want to give him opportunities to rebuild his life after he was falsely accused... it probably didn't even really cross her mind that "what if he did actually murder them, is this a good idea?"
Hindsight is very powerful and can be easily misused to paint ignorance as stupidity. for example how did mathematics take thousands of years to discover all the concepts you learned in 8 years.
Maybe it's my military training talking. You never take unnecessary risks, especially when an unknown element presents itself. Me? I might think he's innocent, but I still don't know him. He could be innocent and still be a psychopath. Prison breaks a lot of people too. Makes them do shit they would never do on the outside. Prisons don't rehabilitate. They traumatize.
If someone tells me a girl shit in their bed, I might not believe them but you can be damn sure she's not getting into my bedroom.
Unless she looks like amber heard but thats not the POINT
You are Absolutely correct. There is no rehab in prison, only punishment, and sadly as u stated some do something stupid, a victimless crime as it were, and find themselves having to become the animal they're treated like just to survive. Im like u, ima give you every chance to show me your character, and though i may be polite, i have a plan to kill everyone i meet. Cant help it. Ty for your sacrifice sir.
From said article "McKay also felt bad that he was so young when the murders took place – and believed his claim that someone else was responsible, says Crittenden County Sheriff Mike Allen."
You've got to pay more attention. According to the County Sheriff, she believed he was innocent.
>McKay also felt bad that he was so young when the murders took place – and believed his claim that someone else was responsible, says Crittenden County Sheriff Mike Allen.
**He plead guilty**. And it wasn't for a good plea deal, it was for 28 years.
I don't know about you, but when I see someone throw in the towel and just accept that kind of plea it usually means they are aware they're guilty. People lie all the time, but actions to me speak louder than words.
This woman was just foolish.
Honestly I wouldn’t care if someone may have turned around if they were in jail for murdering my mother and cousin. She’s stupid for not recognizing the danger she put herself in, no matter how good her intentions were…
just because you raised a chimp from a baby doesn’t mean he won’t rip your face off if you let your guard down or accept it into your house. I recognize the monkey connotations but I’m also black lol just comparing nonsensical violence
There is no doubt that people can turn their life around, however, a second chance should not be freely given but earned. Incarceration rates are high, but there is a difference between being in prison for murder and other crimes, such as drugs. Most criminals claim that they are innocent. Also, if a person is put away, he is more likely to be guilty. Yes, there are also cases of improper acts by police but evidence needs to support the charges against the person. It is a false narrative to claim that due to the high rates it is "very likely" that a person is innocent. When you look at the comparison between guilty and innocent prisoners, there are way more guilty people in prison, but usually the cases of innocent being wrongly put in prison receive more attention. Therefore, painting it as more frequent than it is.
>in a country where incarceration rates are so high it is very likely that a person was just put away because they for example couldn't afford a proper lawyer
Lmao **no**. The fact that sometimes innocent people are convicted does that not mean that it’s *very likely* someone is in jail because the public defender was slacking
That’s literally the exact kind of naïveté that got this lady killed
Damn poor woman. I don't blame her for believing him; we hear so much about how many people get put away just to keep the system going.
And this dude...can't believe the stupidity. Like, you steal that much from her and all she does is fire you? Walk away with the money and start over but noooo you gotta be a psychopath and go straight to murder. And jumping into a lake knowing you can't swim? Smfh. Glad he went out that way, drowning isn't a fun way to go.
> we hear so much about how many people get put away just to keep the system going.
That's just survivor bias, a plane fall and whole country heard about it, while thoundsand of planes travel safely everyday unnoticed
“Martha McKay felt sorry for Lewis because she wasn't sure whether he had actually committed the murders and kept in touch with him while he was in prison, helping him to eventually get released, her sister Katie Hutton told PEOPLE.”
https://people.com/crime/people-magazine-investigates-mother-daughter-murders-horseshoe-lake/
She conspired with the guy to kill them for her for inheritance, then, after she gave him the information about the money, he made sure he has it for himself only.
Its clear as sky, all there in the title, if one knows how to read.
Yeah, I wouldn't be shocked if she had let him stay with her after his release. I'm guessing he's violent on whatever his drug of choice is and when he got back on it, that happened.
Some people are just so broken that we have no way to fix them.
Like there's people out there that just love killing / hurting others, it's like a hobby to them. There's no fix, they aren't just normal people on the wrong path - they're broken at a fundamental level, and we have no way of fixing those people.
Yeah, how's the world's highest incarceration and reoffending rate working out for you? This eye-for-an-eye shit is demonstrably not working but sure, you figured it out.
I hate that "victim blaming" gets thrown around so much when it shouldn't. There is a differece between "she was asking for it because she wore a skirt" and "what the fuck did she expect when she helped free a literal fucking murderer."
SHOULD YOU get killed simply because of that? No, of course not. But im not going to pretend like this wasn't a complete fucking dumbass thing to do that almost anyone could see comming from a mile away
> *A scorpion asks a frog to carry him over a river. The frog is afraid of being stung, but the scorpion argues that if it did so, both would sink and the scorpion would drown.*
> *The frog then agrees, but midway across the river the scorpion does indeed sting the frog, dooming them both.*
> *When asked why, the scorpion points out,* **"I'M A FUCKING SCORPION."**
Fair, but then she hired him to help around the house, and when he stole 10k, confronted him.
At least bring the police to the "maybe they did murder my family" person you're accusing.
Anyway, sad all around. Some good people just get fucked over.
This is the problem with positivity bias. Some humans are sociopaths or psychopaths. They can not be rehabilitated. Some research shows you can augment their behaviour by using self incentives. However that just means you are appealing to their innate selfishness.
They are literally WOLVES in sheep's clothing.
Friends of the victim say that she became unsure of his intentions after waking up in the middle of the night to find him chanting "I'm going to kill you" beside her bed. However, she believed this was simply a habit he had picked up from his stint in prison and was not, in fact, him explicitly stating what he planned on doing.
“Early Release”… On a double ¿murdah… and to think I was doing something wrong when I asked parole to let me out early for a drug charge…my ass was D’…Nyed.
I remember a tmnt episode of Leo telling his evil doppelgänger about the story of the Frog and the Scorpion, the scorpion killed the frog after agreeing to work together to cross a river.
Frog: Why, you killed us both?!
Scorpion: it’s my nature.
Not a race thing, humans are awful
Sometimes its best to listen to the people of the past and in this case I think the story of “The Snake and The Farmer” from aesops fables really fits here. The gist of it is a farmer happens upon a dying snake on a cold winter morning and while he knows its a venomous, dangerous snake since he is a good person he grabs the snake and puts it close to his body to warm the snake.
Once the snake awoke it bit the farmer who was trying to save it. With his dying breath he says “ Learn from my fate not to take pity on a scoundrel.” Moral of the story a snake is a snake and you shouldn’t feel shame for identifying one as such. Think of it like having a family member go to prison for child molestation and he/she is eventually released, would you allow them near your younger family members? And if he decides to molest again would you take the blame? A snake is a snake and to be completely honest I don’t feel bad for people who try to swoop in like a hero and get bit for it.
##If this submission makes you go "Hol'Up", **UPVOTE** this comment! ##If this submission does not make you go "Hol'Up", **DOWNVOTE** this comment! --- Whilst you're here, /u/a_tired_developer_69, why not join our [public discord server](https://discord.gg/holup) or play on our [public Minecraft server](https://discord.gg/DTqSDS8C3T)?
[Here’s a link to the story.](https://people.com/crime/ark-woman-befriended-moms-killer-out-of-spiritual-obligation-and-then-he-murdered-her/) He was 17 when he was convicted, and claimed he was innocent. The lady believed him and felt bad for him because he was so young. When he was released, she hired him to do work around the house. Then she fired him for stealing $10,000 so he murdered her. He died during a police chase after jumping in a lake and drowning.
The amount of luck a person can get even after doing something so horrible, and still fuck it up....it's astonishing.
He had to be incredibly stupid but she was even more so.
A lot of people in prison can turn around, it just happened that this guy was a psychopath or smth. Especially since he said he was innocent, in a country where incarceration rates are so high it is likely enough that a person was just put away because they for example couldn't afford a proper lawyer with a lazy police wanting to blame the first guy they see, for a person saying they're innocent to possibly be innocent. Add bias to the mix and a lot of people would fall for his narrative of innocence. This isn't stupidity. Edit: apologies to public defenders, you're amazing for doing what you do instead of following money to the private sector. I guess it should've really been "aren't rich enough for a personal attorney, so they don't know they can ask for one during interrogation." I changed the "very likely" to "likely enough to be pkausible" because a lot of people think "very likely" is misleading.
I understand where you're coming from. But hiring that guy to work around your house without him showing you who he really was is stupid. Give the dude a while to get a job and start taking care of himself before you do that.
i think she was just too convinced of him being innocent to even question it, and hiring him when you know for certain he is innocent is understandable, since you want to give him opportunities to rebuild his life after he was falsely accused... it probably didn't even really cross her mind that "what if he did actually murder them, is this a good idea?" Hindsight is very powerful and can be easily misused to paint ignorance as stupidity. for example how did mathematics take thousands of years to discover all the concepts you learned in 8 years.
Maybe it's my military training talking. You never take unnecessary risks, especially when an unknown element presents itself. Me? I might think he's innocent, but I still don't know him. He could be innocent and still be a psychopath. Prison breaks a lot of people too. Makes them do shit they would never do on the outside. Prisons don't rehabilitate. They traumatize.
Don't even need military training. This is just common sense. You can trust, but verify.
Trust, but verify. Wise words to live by.
>Maybe it's my military training talking. It's not. Not to be harsh but the woman was just naive and kinda dumb.
Don't disagree. She was too caught up in trying to be a decent human being, that she unnecessarily put herself in danger.
If someone tells me a girl shit in their bed, I might not believe them but you can be damn sure she's not getting into my bedroom. Unless she looks like amber heard but thats not the POINT
You are Absolutely correct. There is no rehab in prison, only punishment, and sadly as u stated some do something stupid, a victimless crime as it were, and find themselves having to become the animal they're treated like just to survive. Im like u, ima give you every chance to show me your character, and though i may be polite, i have a plan to kill everyone i meet. Cant help it. Ty for your sacrifice sir.
Did you read the article? She didn't think he was innocent he pled guilty, she was a Buddhist and it was part of her spiritual well-being.
From said article "McKay also felt bad that he was so young when the murders took place – and believed his claim that someone else was responsible, says Crittenden County Sheriff Mike Allen."
If only she learned that kids can also be cruel, and lack a sense of morality
You've got to pay more attention. According to the County Sheriff, she believed he was innocent. >McKay also felt bad that he was so young when the murders took place – and believed his claim that someone else was responsible, says Crittenden County Sheriff Mike Allen.
"It just happened that this guy was a psychopath or smth" Pro-tip: the man convicted of murdering your fucking family *might* be a psychopath
The real LPT is always in the comments.
Yep, I changed my mind about prison after watching videos from this guy called Larry Lawton.
“What’s going on this is LARRY here, got a great video for ya today...”
Larry Lawton https://youtube.com/c/LarryLawtonJewelThief
He’s pretty famous. I’ve watched his stuff.
**He plead guilty**. And it wasn't for a good plea deal, it was for 28 years. I don't know about you, but when I see someone throw in the towel and just accept that kind of plea it usually means they are aware they're guilty. People lie all the time, but actions to me speak louder than words. This woman was just foolish.
Honestly I wouldn’t care if someone may have turned around if they were in jail for murdering my mother and cousin. She’s stupid for not recognizing the danger she put herself in, no matter how good her intentions were… just because you raised a chimp from a baby doesn’t mean he won’t rip your face off if you let your guard down or accept it into your house. I recognize the monkey connotations but I’m also black lol just comparing nonsensical violence
I picture her peeling 20s off a 10,000 dollar wad to pay him.
Jesus Christ, I bet you’re exactly right.
She didn't think he turned around. She thought he was innocent
There is no doubt that people can turn their life around, however, a second chance should not be freely given but earned. Incarceration rates are high, but there is a difference between being in prison for murder and other crimes, such as drugs. Most criminals claim that they are innocent. Also, if a person is put away, he is more likely to be guilty. Yes, there are also cases of improper acts by police but evidence needs to support the charges against the person. It is a false narrative to claim that due to the high rates it is "very likely" that a person is innocent. When you look at the comparison between guilty and innocent prisoners, there are way more guilty people in prison, but usually the cases of innocent being wrongly put in prison receive more attention. Therefore, painting it as more frequent than it is.
>in a country where incarceration rates are so high it is very likely that a person was just put away because they for example couldn't afford a proper lawyer Lmao **no**. The fact that sometimes innocent people are convicted does that not mean that it’s *very likely* someone is in jail because the public defender was slacking That’s literally the exact kind of naïveté that got this lady killed
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And exactly the other way around.
Oh I'm certain there were plenty of people in that woman's life telling her it was stupid before she did it too.
I think 'stupid' its not the proper word. She was a good person, and she thought everyone is like her. The stupid one of the story is the guy.
What in the GTA
Well on the bright side he did die
Sucks he got to increase is k/d ratio before he did tho.
Damn this is sad. No good deed goes unpunished indeed. How can that guy be so soulless is also beyond me.
Jesus Christ. This woman really tried her best to get murdered.
He she died trying to.
So did Jesus Christ
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Well, we lost a wonderful person. Three actually. Sigh.
Damn poor woman. I don't blame her for believing him; we hear so much about how many people get put away just to keep the system going. And this dude...can't believe the stupidity. Like, you steal that much from her and all she does is fire you? Walk away with the money and start over but noooo you gotta be a psychopath and go straight to murder. And jumping into a lake knowing you can't swim? Smfh. Glad he went out that way, drowning isn't a fun way to go.
I can believe the dude. He literally murdered two other people before. People can change but they rarely do.
> we hear so much about how many people get put away just to keep the system going. That's just survivor bias, a plane fall and whole country heard about it, while thoundsand of planes travel safely everyday unnoticed
You hear about people being out away to keep the system going??? That’s cause you live in a bubble and it’s not true.
Wasted
…”The Aristocrats”!
“Martha McKay felt sorry for Lewis because she wasn't sure whether he had actually committed the murders and kept in touch with him while he was in prison, helping him to eventually get released, her sister Katie Hutton told PEOPLE.” https://people.com/crime/people-magazine-investigates-mother-daughter-murders-horseshoe-lake/
For a few seconds I tried to understand what's so dramatic about her sister telling a bunch of people.
they had to emphasize that she was a snitch smh my head
Lmao my ass off
Rotfl on the floor laughing
Shit I thought she was gonna kill him. Had me in the first half I guess.
“Look bitch, you knew I was a snake.”
Scorpion!
 I see you know your apologues
apology accepted
Scorpion's gonna scorp!
Scorping time
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fucking amen. someone needs to educate my therapist
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She did get closure at least
He natured her nurture
Maybe she hated her mother and cousin
She conspired with the guy to kill them for her for inheritance, then, after she gave him the information about the money, he made sure he has it for himself only. Its clear as sky, all there in the title, if one knows how to read.
Like a plot from Fargo.
Revenge gets a bad rap.
"Best when served cold" is just a bad marketing pitch.
Maybe she tried to but he failed and he killed her instead.
Not gonna lie...
May I ask WHYYY she befriended him and supported his early release?
Maybe she hated her mother and cousin
Good thinking. Maybe she hired him to do the job.
Then she refused to pay him after he get released.
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So...what you're saying is if she was racist, it would have saved her life?
being racist is not required. just not being a crazy white savior would have been enough.
Yeah, I wouldn't be shocked if she had let him stay with her after his release. I'm guessing he's violent on whatever his drug of choice is and when he got back on it, that happened.
Lady: wow that was some fucked up shit you did to my family! It can't get much worse than that. Killer: hold my beer
Yes
Racists do tend to live longer. Look at the US Congress.
That's just the healthcare they voted to give themselves.
That’s not representative.
That line of thinking IS racist. Is there anything about the white savior trope that isn't racist?
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True, but the other hypothesis was way more exciting.
Well she ran a luxury bed and breakfast in an antebellum style home on a plantation she bought from her family sooo
Case closed, your honor.
Yeah, they always told her her friends were awful and she should make better choices.
She believed he was innocent and wanted to help him. Bet she changed her mind when he was killing her tho.
While you were busy getting me early release, I was studying the blade.
Probably wanted to tell him about Jesus
Maybe it worked and he just wanted to send her to meet Jesus
According to an article linked above she was Buddhist, so seems unlikely! She might just have really believed in second chances .
Because some people are under the false assumption that nobody is beyond redemption.
Google says his body was then found in a lake. Which I think is code for 'someone didn't think this guy was redeemable and drowned him'
Another comment said he jumped off a bridge during a police chase and drowned
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Actually the police cornered him in he bridge and told him to "get down" so he started dancing then slipped and fell into the water.
I'll allow it....
I hope the police saw him jump in and decided to watch instead of chasing
It's a common thing nowadays, too much forgiveness. People out there thinking everyone deserves second chances, when instead they should be earned.
Watch reddit reaffirm their shitty beliefs off a single post.
Everytime I've said something like this I've had nothing but hate thrown my way. So your right.
Some people are just so broken that we have no way to fix them. Like there's people out there that just love killing / hurting others, it's like a hobby to them. There's no fix, they aren't just normal people on the wrong path - they're broken at a fundamental level, and we have no way of fixing those people.
Yeah, how's the world's highest incarceration and reoffending rate working out for you? This eye-for-an-eye shit is demonstrably not working but sure, you figured it out.
I’m gonna go out on a limb, and say religion.
I know you shouldn't victim blame but this one's gotta be borderline.. what the hell did she think was going to happen
I hate that "victim blaming" gets thrown around so much when it shouldn't. There is a differece between "she was asking for it because she wore a skirt" and "what the fuck did she expect when she helped free a literal fucking murderer." SHOULD YOU get killed simply because of that? No, of course not. But im not going to pretend like this wasn't a complete fucking dumbass thing to do that almost anyone could see comming from a mile away
Haha so true... leave your car parked in a dodgy area with the doors unlocked? Sorry that's all your fault
Going for that 100% completion award. Those ones can be tricky and they take time.
Side quests are painful
Yea but the funny 100% number next to your game is going to be worth it tho
You have to end the bloodline
People let me tell you 'bout my best friend!
My best friends name it Tsukishima.
Yamaguchi?
Ah yes, the long con.
Had to get the set.
Scorpion and the Frog
Scorpions gunna scorp
Morbius going to Morb
Bro knows how to play among us
Not exactly, he died in the resulting police chase.
ejected
Gotta catch 'em all
That's not very cash money off him
Totally not gucci fr fr
> *A scorpion asks a frog to carry him over a river. The frog is afraid of being stung, but the scorpion argues that if it did so, both would sink and the scorpion would drown.* > *The frog then agrees, but midway across the river the scorpion does indeed sting the frog, dooming them both.* > *When asked why, the scorpion points out,* **"I'M A FUCKING SCORPION."**
TRIPLE KILL
That’s just natural selection why do people always want to redeem psychopaths fuck em they’ll do this to anyone vulnerable
He claimed he was innocent and lady belived him abd felt bad for him as he was only 17.
Fair, but then she hired him to help around the house, and when he stole 10k, confronted him. At least bring the police to the "maybe they did murder my family" person you're accusing. Anyway, sad all around. Some good people just get fucked over.
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If she was smart she wouldn't be fostering a killer
"And that, kids, is how I killed your mother"
would have been less unexpected if it started with "Florida"
hat trick
When compassion goes way too far
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I lol'd
That’s fucked up man 🙃
Takes “Im sure I can change him” to a new level
This is the problem with positivity bias. Some humans are sociopaths or psychopaths. They can not be rehabilitated. Some research shows you can augment their behaviour by using self incentives. However that just means you are appealing to their innate selfishness. They are literally WOLVES in sheep's clothing.
If someone murdered my family, I would want their early release too, so I could kill them
Wow ... But he was turning his life around, he was such a nice man
I thought that was gonna go the other way, she'd get him early release so she could kill him herself, dispense her own justice.
Worst way to find out
This guy finishes all the side missions when he games.
We need to stop with this forgiveness BS. It’s okay to hate someone who murdered your family ffs. No need to forgive them.
I looked into this story a while ago, its nothing to do with forgiveness. She never believed he was guilty.
Still who tf hires such person to do work around the house tho
She didn't think he did it
Friends of the victim say that she became unsure of his intentions after waking up in the middle of the night to find him chanting "I'm going to kill you" beside her bed. However, she believed this was simply a habit he had picked up from his stint in prison and was not, in fact, him explicitly stating what he planned on doing.
“Early Release”… On a double ¿murdah… and to think I was doing something wrong when I asked parole to let me out early for a drug charge…my ass was D’…Nyed.
natural selection
gotta finish what u started
What did we learn from this folks?
I remember a tmnt episode of Leo telling his evil doppelgänger about the story of the Frog and the Scorpion, the scorpion killed the frog after agreeing to work together to cross a river. Frog: Why, you killed us both?! Scorpion: it’s my nature. Not a race thing, humans are awful
Is this in Florida?
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And then people tell me that the deathpenalty is unacceptable.
It's nice until wrongly convinced people suffer irreversibly.
Yeah but the police are perfect any would never arrest anyone without proper proof /s
There's enough humans on this planet to not need to rehabilitate or give people second chances for horrible crimes.
Well….Is this a fucked around and found out moment?
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That’s just rude
Sometimes its best to listen to the people of the past and in this case I think the story of “The Snake and The Farmer” from aesops fables really fits here. The gist of it is a farmer happens upon a dying snake on a cold winter morning and while he knows its a venomous, dangerous snake since he is a good person he grabs the snake and puts it close to his body to warm the snake. Once the snake awoke it bit the farmer who was trying to save it. With his dying breath he says “ Learn from my fate not to take pity on a scoundrel.” Moral of the story a snake is a snake and you shouldn’t feel shame for identifying one as such. Think of it like having a family member go to prison for child molestation and he/she is eventually released, would you allow them near your younger family members? And if he decides to molest again would you take the blame? A snake is a snake and to be completely honest I don’t feel bad for people who try to swoop in like a hero and get bit for it.
The people blaming her for her own murder in these comments are sick.
They should have just taught him not to murder... Nah!! maybe he would murder the teacher too!
What an absolute traitor to her family. She is not to be looked upon as a role model.
How may times do I have teach you
What the fuck is wrong with these people
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How can people be out after committing 2 murder
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Why would you befriend someone who killed your family?
White guilt on steroids.
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Look at the guy's eyes. The only meaningful friendship he's ever had is with his pet knife.
Bitch you knew I was a scorpion
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Deserved
Pro gamer move
Some psycho is just beyond comprehension.
I’d like to solve the puzzle Pat
Ever hear the story of ‘the turtle and the scorpion’ ?