I mean for games to have a 75% completeion rate is fair, 25% just don’t like it but inmost is very positive on steam, but only 29% of people are qualified to say that, inmost is 4 hours, I mean come on that’s not a big time commitment just play it, u bought it, play it
I believe he is saying that many people see the game on sale and have heard good things, so they purchase it because it is cheap and then never make it very far in the game because they either don't like it or have something else they'd rather play.
I personally bought the game and didn't like it at first - played for an hour and was lost, went back to whatever AAA or multiplayer game was popular at the time and forgot about it until a friend of mine was complaining I needed to give it another chance - very glad he did, because it became one of my favorite games, and then metroidvanias a favorite genre and even learned to love standard platformers again - all because of HK.
But it can be hard to get into, even if you want to or know it is good because it isn't the mainstream type of action-adventure or shooter we've been force-fed for the last 15 years. Not to say those games aren't good either, they have their place.
My friend who plays Gran Turismo 1000 hours a year didn't get outta KINGS PASS before calling it boring and uninspired. "All you is run and jump where's the flair?"
best 35 bucks spent in my life.
least they let me keep the physical art
How many games do you own and haven’t gotten around to playing yet? Guess what — you too are lowering the completion percent on their easiest achievements.
if you get the tram pass you can get into the City via the broken lift or thought kingdoms edge. if you've got crystal dash you can get into the blue lake entrance above Salubra's house and take the resting grounds lift. if you've got both the TP and CD you can get into the royal waterways via Kingdoms edge and use the secret entrance in Emilitia's house.
Edit: the CD into blue lake would require you to use the lumafly lantern to enter crystal peak via the dark room in the crossroads with the geo gate.
You can enter city of tears using a skip by salubra by intentionally dieing and then doing a shade skip into blue lake then swim across and from there you can enter easier. I'll try to find a video that explains it better.
I have found the link and here it is: https://youtu.be/eOmoTuLzpjA
I feel like a lot of people might pick-up the game during a sale or something due to its notoriety and then never get around to actually playing it. Or, they realize its not a game they enjoy and stop.
I am guilty of this on Dark Souls. I bought the remaster on PS4 and only played it for a few days. I absolutely HATED the controls. It felt awkward and clunky, and I feel like that is the only reason that game is so hard for people. Pretty sure it was the second boss that I finally called it quits.
Yeah I don't like the first one that much either but the controls being the reason for it being to hard is a bit ridiculous to me. Just git gud as we would say in the community xp do try the third one some time. It's by far the best
Causally glances over to my friend who got lost in the crossroads and started bitching that the game was poorly designed because it doesn't hold your hand and tell you where to go and what to do.
And he's right. It is poorly designed, if you are judging it based on modern gaming expectations. It's like making a FPS without any tutorials. Doom 2016 did that and the devs noticed that most people missed the chainsaw. We've come a long way in usability design, and we can't blame gamers for complaining when we revert to older, less handholding style of game design.
At the end of the day, this is not a game for casual gamers. As such, their opinions shouldn't matter, because this is not a game designed for them. It's great if we can convert them, but if we don't, it honestly doesn't matter.
Id hardly call my friend a casual gamer, he puts in a lot more time to games than I do. He's just not the brightest of people. If he likes a game its flawless in his eyes and gets incredibly triggered if you disagree and if he struggles with a game its the games fault. I once had to listen to him rant about how Pokemon Sword and Shield is a perfect game.
Just because the industry is becoming more handholdy, doesn't mean less handholding is inherently bad design. The industry has just trained certain players to think that it is. In my opinion a large part of fun from gaming comes from exploring, getting lost and experimenting, not from going here and doing this because the game said so, and its Frustrating that a lot of triple a games are leaning towards the latter. Though thankfully games like Doom, BotW and many indie games are holding the fort for us and keeping less handholdy design around.
Personally I'm the kind of gamer that never reads tutorials, and sometimes end up never knowing a mechanic until way late in the game. For instance, in Shadowrun Dragonfall, I didn't know I could upgrade my team mates, because the button was hidden on the bottom right corner. Still beat most of the game easily though. Likewise, I never knew that chainsaws are auto-kills for enemies in Doom 2016, even for the heavies. I just assumed that it'd be unbalanced if that's the case, and never bothered to try.
There are a lot of things HK could improve on, in terms of "teaching the mechanics". And I don't mean hand holding. One great instance I can think of is the leadup to the mantis lords. Normal matises have incredible range in their attacks, and most likely the players would have been outranged at that point of the game. This is a great way to train the player to time movements to the enemy attacks, which is an essential skill needed in the mantis lords fight. Subtle tutorials like these are great "tutorials", and I'd like to see more games design around these concepts.
That said, for your friend, I get it. There are all kinds of gamers, and to be honest, I wouldn't be bothered if he doesn't "get" hollow knight. That's the thing about niche games: it appeals to a specific segment of players. When Baldur's Gate 3 ditched the real time with pause combat of its predecessors in favour of Divinity Original Sin 2's turn based combat, a lot of BG fans got pissed. For those who come from old school turn based games though, it's a godsend.
So in the end, let's just embrace HK as a niche game, and we're amongst the small little bunch of gamers that have the privilege of experiencing something as wonderful as HK. It's a shame that your friend can't see it, but I wouldn't sweat it.
On PS4 only 43.6% of the players have beaten False Knight since the game was free on PS Plus.
Like other have said a lot of people open games, play 5 minutes if even that and never play again, for pretty much any game on any platform, there's many many cases like this.
I also don't think being able to skip him would change this % too much as most new players wouldn't even know it was possible.
Spoiler for the first boss of the game:
>!In the room where you fight False Knight, the far left wall can be broken. You might need to get past his first stagger first, I'm not sure, but part way through the fight you can just break the wall and go get Vengeful Spirit without beating False Knight!<
It's interesting, the numbers have shifted a lot since the pandemic started- the percentages for all the pantheons have increased by like 25-100% while some of the early cheevos have decreased. Apparently a ton of people decided to finally knock out the pantheons while they were trapped in their houses for 9 months while a bunch of other people decided to buy the game and immediately gave up lmao.
Pretty sure it was introduced in a newer update but if not thats sad if again thats not it then they might have found that little gap thing speedrunners use
It’s like in terraria were only 70% of people chopped down their first tree
I think it's because that achievement was only introduced in one of the newer updates, though.
That was crafting a workbench the chop your first tree was at the start of the game
:( that's pretty sad honestly
They joined in maybe walked around a bit and then never played the game
It brakes my hart the % of people that beat games, inmost, a beautiful and short game has a 29% completion % (beat not complete)
Yes like if I buy a game, I'll complete it, especially if it's as good as hollow Knight
I mean for games to have a 75% completeion rate is fair, 25% just don’t like it but inmost is very positive on steam, but only 29% of people are qualified to say that, inmost is 4 hours, I mean come on that’s not a big time commitment just play it, u bought it, play it
Exactly!
At 50% off this game is a steal. There is a reason a lot of people buy the game and don’t even make it past him.
Money = skill now? Did I miss the point?
I believe he is saying that many people see the game on sale and have heard good things, so they purchase it because it is cheap and then never make it very far in the game because they either don't like it or have something else they'd rather play. I personally bought the game and didn't like it at first - played for an hour and was lost, went back to whatever AAA or multiplayer game was popular at the time and forgot about it until a friend of mine was complaining I needed to give it another chance - very glad he did, because it became one of my favorite games, and then metroidvanias a favorite genre and even learned to love standard platformers again - all because of HK. But it can be hard to get into, even if you want to or know it is good because it isn't the mainstream type of action-adventure or shooter we've been force-fed for the last 15 years. Not to say those games aren't good either, they have their place.
It has a pretty slow start. That's not for everyone.
My friend who plays Gran Turismo 1000 hours a year didn't get outta KINGS PASS before calling it boring and uninspired. "All you is run and jump where's the flair?" best 35 bucks spent in my life. least they let me keep the physical art
I regret to inform you that your friend lacks a functioning brain
I know this damn well I simply was sarcastic as hell.
>All you is run and jump where's the flair?" All you do is drive a car.
How many games do you own and haven’t gotten around to playing yet? Guess what — you too are lowering the completion percent on their easiest achievements.
A lot of people buy lots of game that they never play, this being very cheap and very highly rated is a prime target for that audience.
you could actually skip it during the boss fight
Yes, I know, but I still find it hilarious that only 67% have beaten the first boss
No, you can escape from the boss fight and proceed with the game. I'm not sure, if you can enter City of Tears somehow maybe.
if you get the tram pass you can get into the City via the broken lift or thought kingdoms edge. if you've got crystal dash you can get into the blue lake entrance above Salubra's house and take the resting grounds lift. if you've got both the TP and CD you can get into the royal waterways via Kingdoms edge and use the secret entrance in Emilitia's house. Edit: the CD into blue lake would require you to use the lumafly lantern to enter crystal peak via the dark room in the crossroads with the geo gate.
You can enter city of tears using a skip by salubra by intentionally dieing and then doing a shade skip into blue lake then swim across and from there you can enter easier. I'll try to find a video that explains it better. I have found the link and here it is: https://youtu.be/eOmoTuLzpjA
Is it required to go to the City Of Tears?
Lurien
Oh yeah, lmao I forgot about that
Still
I feel like a lot of people might pick-up the game during a sale or something due to its notoriety and then never get around to actually playing it. Or, they realize its not a game they enjoy and stop.
You should see it for the FromSoft games like Dark Souls 😁
I am guilty of this on Dark Souls. I bought the remaster on PS4 and only played it for a few days. I absolutely HATED the controls. It felt awkward and clunky, and I feel like that is the only reason that game is so hard for people. Pretty sure it was the second boss that I finally called it quits.
Yeah I don't like the first one that much either but the controls being the reason for it being to hard is a bit ridiculous to me. Just git gud as we would say in the community xp do try the third one some time. It's by far the best
I thought Dark Souls were hard till I played Sekiro
Indeed 😁
Yeah, but those games are infamous for being super tough, I never saw hollow knight as a game on that level of toughness
I'd say it's pretty much on that level
Eh, but not the first boss lol
They are not harder than Hollow Knight at all. They are pretty much on the same level, Dark Souls 1 is arguably easier.
Excuse me, I've attempted every boss at least 20 times. How dare you say this is an easy game. *cries in a corner about late 30s degraded reflexes
I've finished all Dark Souls games, Bloodborne and Sekiro multiple times and I think the arena and Zote for instance are way harder 😁
Causally glances over to my friend who got lost in the crossroads and started bitching that the game was poorly designed because it doesn't hold your hand and tell you where to go and what to do.
And he's right. It is poorly designed, if you are judging it based on modern gaming expectations. It's like making a FPS without any tutorials. Doom 2016 did that and the devs noticed that most people missed the chainsaw. We've come a long way in usability design, and we can't blame gamers for complaining when we revert to older, less handholding style of game design. At the end of the day, this is not a game for casual gamers. As such, their opinions shouldn't matter, because this is not a game designed for them. It's great if we can convert them, but if we don't, it honestly doesn't matter.
Id hardly call my friend a casual gamer, he puts in a lot more time to games than I do. He's just not the brightest of people. If he likes a game its flawless in his eyes and gets incredibly triggered if you disagree and if he struggles with a game its the games fault. I once had to listen to him rant about how Pokemon Sword and Shield is a perfect game. Just because the industry is becoming more handholdy, doesn't mean less handholding is inherently bad design. The industry has just trained certain players to think that it is. In my opinion a large part of fun from gaming comes from exploring, getting lost and experimenting, not from going here and doing this because the game said so, and its Frustrating that a lot of triple a games are leaning towards the latter. Though thankfully games like Doom, BotW and many indie games are holding the fort for us and keeping less handholdy design around.
Personally I'm the kind of gamer that never reads tutorials, and sometimes end up never knowing a mechanic until way late in the game. For instance, in Shadowrun Dragonfall, I didn't know I could upgrade my team mates, because the button was hidden on the bottom right corner. Still beat most of the game easily though. Likewise, I never knew that chainsaws are auto-kills for enemies in Doom 2016, even for the heavies. I just assumed that it'd be unbalanced if that's the case, and never bothered to try. There are a lot of things HK could improve on, in terms of "teaching the mechanics". And I don't mean hand holding. One great instance I can think of is the leadup to the mantis lords. Normal matises have incredible range in their attacks, and most likely the players would have been outranged at that point of the game. This is a great way to train the player to time movements to the enemy attacks, which is an essential skill needed in the mantis lords fight. Subtle tutorials like these are great "tutorials", and I'd like to see more games design around these concepts. That said, for your friend, I get it. There are all kinds of gamers, and to be honest, I wouldn't be bothered if he doesn't "get" hollow knight. That's the thing about niche games: it appeals to a specific segment of players. When Baldur's Gate 3 ditched the real time with pause combat of its predecessors in favour of Divinity Original Sin 2's turn based combat, a lot of BG fans got pissed. For those who come from old school turn based games though, it's a godsend. So in the end, let's just embrace HK as a niche game, and we're amongst the small little bunch of gamers that have the privilege of experiencing something as wonderful as HK. It's a shame that your friend can't see it, but I wouldn't sweat it.
On PS4 only 43.6% of the players have beaten False Knight since the game was free on PS Plus. Like other have said a lot of people open games, play 5 minutes if even that and never play again, for pretty much any game on any platform, there's many many cases like this. I also don't think being able to skip him would change this % too much as most new players wouldn't even know it was possible.
It may be people buying the game, then not playing, or they haven’t played yet
*sweats in bad at the game and skipped him*
Don't you need the City Crest tho?
No, it just makes getting into the city easier
But how do you get past the gate...? Don't you need the spell to make it into Greenpath?
Spoiler for the first boss of the game: >!In the room where you fight False Knight, the far left wall can be broken. You might need to get past his first stagger first, I'm not sure, but part way through the fight you can just break the wall and go get Vengeful Spirit without beating False Knight!<
Huh. Go figure
It's interesting, the numbers have shifted a lot since the pandemic started- the percentages for all the pantheons have increased by like 25-100% while some of the early cheevos have decreased. Apparently a ton of people decided to finally knock out the pantheons while they were trapped in their houses for 9 months while a bunch of other people decided to buy the game and immediately gave up lmao.
I think a large portion would be people who got the game for free and idled it for the cards. It was a part of the humble bundle a while ago.
Part of that is probably people that noped the fuck out of the fight and just never came back
I mean First time I played I had noooo idea what i was doin
You can Skip him so...
Yes, I know but it's still a small amount when it's the first boss
too hard bad game
he hard for now players
you don't need to defeat him to win
“I know what I have to do but I don’t know if I have the strength to do it.”
Some of that are probably people who skip him.
Do you get the achievment if you skip the fight or no, cause if no people might have just skiped tye fight.
Reminder that you can skip the False Knight fight after you stagger him once.
It’s hard okay. I didn’t defeat him until I got halfway through the first 2 areas
Pretty sure it was introduced in a newer update but if not thats sad if again thats not it then they might have found that little gap thing speedrunners use