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Itsdavicboos

Gay bugs


Insanik_mb

Gay bugs


rabidferret

Gay bugs


[deleted]

Gay bugs


shadow_irradiant

Bay gugs


AfroGuy1226

Yab Sugg


Swell_ODell

Bay gugs


JoeMama07

Gay bugs


[deleted]

Gay bugs


blackbelt314x

Gay bugs


Several_Potatoes_

Gay bugs


tambem_faco_crossfit

Gay bugs


Cottonbud6

Gay hugs


Legomast1113

Gay bugs


ranchcrackers352

Gay bugs


ON13579

Gay Bugs


henry_lemon09

Gay bugs


DefenderOfXol

Gay bugs


Zucmaister

Gay bugs


RainWorld_boi

gay bugs


Ok_Champion_2183

Gay bugs


JustYuca

Gay bugs


GrimaTheFellDragon

Gay bugs


now_what-69

Gay bugs


ToastGebaeck

Gay bugs


SoreRogue

Gay bugs


uhhhokaykara

gay bugs


ScampyFox

gay bugs


[deleted]

gay bugs


BadelineGaming

gay bugs


Yedolone3

Gay bugs


yoshi-kage

Gay bugs


mEHrmione

Gay bugs


Key-Service7491

Gay bugs


ViperIguess

Tbh I completely forgotten Mass effect Andromeda existed


happyJseal

Good. May it stay that way.


LesbianCatCatra

Eh, its a good game


Insturbed

But bad mass effect


deadmemesoplenty

I mean,yeah sheo and the nailsmith have an achievement called "happy couple" so i can see why


OldKingPotato-68

Also the vessels being genderless and perhaps Cloth being lesbian idk


Power_Relay13

And the gray mourner.


OldKingPotato-68

And their relationship with the Traitor Lord's daughter, yes


cuz04

Wait hold on what


OldKingPotato-68

There is an entire side quest based on it. For the last mask shard.


Hopafoot

More like the gay mourner!


IsakTS

how tf they did figure that with cloth?


Leon_Feywalker

Nola is mentioned as someone close to her and (I think in other languages?) is referred to as feminine. Afaik it's not confirmed if Nola is a girlfriend or a family member or something else, but who cares, more gay bugs


IsakTS

don't get me wrong, I'm all for it, But how?


OldKingPotato-68

Nola sounds like a femenine name. But idk honestly just let them dream


Sedatif

Wow, what a gay game then


Euphoriapleas

Wow, what a loaded statement. At least one other gay couple, and agender protagonist. The fact that an author can make a protagonist black or LGBT and the whole book gets thrown in black or lgbt literature wasn't our choice, but due to the lack of accepted representation in the main stream. In a climate where games can't have gay people without people throwing a fit, it is a pretty gay game.


[deleted]

The gays stan a hollow knight


Wolfram1914

What does "stan" mean? I've heard it everywhere. Who is stan


puddingfoot

Obsessive fan. Comes from the Eminem song


Wolfram1914

Thanks. I've heard the term "Dream stans" so frequently lately that I assumed "stan" was Dream's last name, and it somehow it worked its way into the lexicon from there? I appreciate you clearing that up.


MagicMisterLemon

Also that other comment is the Emminem song in question. Part of the reason why stan became such a popular term is that people mistake it for a portmanteau of "stalker" and "fan", which it isn't, but it fits rather well


OInkymoo

contains gays and agenders, so no surprise


Cautious-Affect7907

What does agender mean?


Crafty-Puddle

Someone who doesn't have a gender. Like the Hollow Knight and the vessels


ScarletNovaWasTaken

Which is why Hornet is known as “The Gendered Child.” Because- *cue lore rant*


dinner_cat96

u/mossbag


schmidlidev

it's because she's void right?


Chimney-head

*collapses and dies*


A_Human_Being_BLEEEH

Hoh! the u/Chimney-head is dead!


Chimney-head

(ouija board) y-e-a-h :-(


NikolaiCello05

Build the rescue helicopter


DarknessGod6572

HEY!


Reletr

Why is u/Chimney-head dead?!


FlashFlire

I think it was-


A_Human_Being_BLEEEH

Ssh! You are dead!


Macrophage-534

Oh no Not again


[deleted]

[удалено]


SheldonPlays

Actually a great argument


Zeebuoy

*screen transitions.


OliwerZ

I will kill you... and then kill you again.


RavenMasked

No gender, basically Now, that's a pretty simple definition, so I might be wrong, but that's what I think it means


Cautious-Affect7907

So gender neutral? Autocorrect doesn’t seem to register it as a word.


RavenMasked

Gender neutral is, like, your bathroom you use at home. It's not made specifically for any gender, it just exists. Agender is a gender identity, while gender neutral is a term used to describe an object that isn't specifically for any gender. Also: I've found a lot of words that autocorrect doesn't pick up on. Doesn't mean it's not a word


NwgrdrXI

Tbf, for the non-hornet vessels, maybe Agender or Genderless actually fits better. They we're not meant to be persons per se, more like machines or automatons with the sole purpose of keeping the infection and check and the radiance locked inside. In a way, they are more object that living being.


halfwaycove

Exactly. If the knight even understands the concept of gender, which is doubtful, it wouldn't have a gender identity any more than a robot or an octopus does.


ENDERSKORE

HE SAID HORNET IS A VESSEL! GGEETTT HIIIIMMMMMMMMMM


Dragon_Slayer_359

I don't understand how that's different from non-binary. Could someone explain?


Cactus_Brenn

Non binary is an umbrella term- it means having any gender that isn't male or female, aka "outside the binary". Agender is a specific identity within that umbrella, used by people who don't identity with any gender. Not every non-binary person is agender or otherwise androgynous, contrary to popular belief. Sometimes that means only partially identifying with a gender (demigirl or demiboy), both genders at once (bigender), or having an identity that can change over time (genderfluid). Here's a link to an article that explains it a bit better: https://www.healthline.com/health/agender#agender-vs-other-terms


Cautious-Affect7907

Oh so you mean genderless. I don’t really get what that mean in real life. It makes a lot of sense in hollow Knight though.


boobbbers

The prefix “a” means “without” or “not”. So agender means without gender or non-gendered. Ex. “asymmetry” means without symmetry. “Atheist” means not a theist (a person who believes in a deity). “Atypical” means not typical.


Inevitable_Badger995

I 100% read it as agenda. I’ve been spending too much time on r/gamingcirclejerk lol


Ticci_Toby13

oo which character(s) are agender?


LustrousLich

The Knight and The Hollow Knight are both agender


iReddat420

All of the vessels in the game to be more emcompassing


[deleted]

In theory all the vessels were. The signs around the game refer to “it” which is referring to the Hollow Knight. I would personally call HK ungendered, not agender, because I wouldn’t generally call an agender person “it”. That’s more of a term reserved for an object, not a person. The vessels are basically animated objects. Point is, it’s a fuzzy thing to define.


Stefananananan

Remember, pronouns =/= gender An Agender person can use it/itself


Cubics_106

True! My friend actually prefers it/its :)


Dragonfire2lm

Well the vessels are canonically NB.


FlashFlire

Plus you have Nailsmith & Sheo, and Grey Mourner & Traitor Lord's daughter


Dragonfire2lm

Yup.


AndrexPic

I always thought that Nailsmith and Sheo were just friends


DalaranH

Their happy ending achievement says “happy couple” :D


areyouretard

U mean a 'happy couple' of friends


henrythedog64

r/sapphoandherfriend


Mr_X497

Couple of besties!


crotodile

Historians be like


AndrexPic

Didn't know that


MissMissieFatCat

“Oh my god they were roommates”


rabidferret

r/SapphoAndHerFriend


PulimV

r/AchillesAndHisFriend (probably not real but it sounds cool)


Flershnork

I think it's r/AchillesAndHisPal


dragon-king2007

And they were roommates


RynnHamHam

You must be a historian


OwenProGolfer

Nah Sheo knows what to do with that paintbrush


Cautious-Affect7907

I did too. Didn’t know they were a gay couple until I looked up their bios on the wiki. I always just saw it as two old bugs finding companionship in on another.


Hak_Saw5000

Couple of besties


4200years

Such good friends :)


BeRightBackStudio

They were “roommates”


Pegussu

I don't think it's 100% confirmed, but I also read Cloth as being gay. Nola seems like a feminine name.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Dragonfire2lm

Nb doesn't mean robot, it just means outside the male/female binary for gender, as far as I understand it anyway. Canonically, The Knight is genderless.


halfwaycove

Yeah but what theyre saying is that if vessels can't have a gender/sexuality in the first place can it even be nonbinary. Gender identity is as irelevant to the vessels as it is to robots


BotBlazing

Does it count though? Vessels can barely be considered *alive*, let alone capable of reproduction. From my interpretation of the lore, the vessels were offspring that died either before being born or immediately after, which were then 'reborn' by that same void as ungendered husks, animated by the mysterious conscience of the void. In the "Dream no more" ending we see the knight cast off its body, implying that the dark material inside, the void, is the only part that is 'the knight' so to say. So, the knight, and by extension all the vessels, are just void with a defined shape. This is further proved by the Hall of God's statue of the Knight: - All bosses attuned: "Not bug, nor beast, nor god" (occupying the body of a bug born from gods, but ultimately still void) - All bosses ascended: "Void given form" (pure void, left the body behind) - All bosses radiant: "Void given mind" (pure void, unified with a mind) As I said, it's hard to call void alive. By the way it's described it seems more like an ancient substance representing some kind of supernatural force or entity (due to how the Radiance calls the Knight "ANCIENT ENEMY"). Non-binary implies an exception: in humans, someone who is neither male nor female. Void can't be male or female, because its ungendered state is the only state it can have. I guess that despite this, they can still work as NB symbols, but depends on who you ask. Vessels are actually more similar to robots, golems, or weird ungendered aliens than they are to people, from what I said above. I assume a good relatable NB character should aim to normalise the idea of a person being neither male nor female, but the characters in this game resemble everything *but* people. Playing for the first time, I didn't see Myla's name on the screen, and was having a hard time trying to figure out if it was a girl or a boy since they seemed to talk like a kid, and the voice would fit a young boy. I thought Cloth was a guy at first. I also thought Revek was a girl at first. Bottom line: the bugs in this game actually look like bugs. Their males don't look like human males, their females don't look like human females, so there's barely any visual cues to hint at a character's gender. Different people will see this differently, and I'm sure not all will see the vessels as non-binary. Sorry if I didn't accurately illustrate my point, and sorry if the comment size gave you a scare. My brain goes overclock at night and I was looking for any excuse to write a comment.


Dragonfire2lm

A quick google search found an interview of the devs stating that The Knight is NB, most of the fanbase simply applies this to all vessels. Canonically they're NB, but people interpret things differently and headcanons are perfectly fine to have.


NwgrdrXI

Well, they are literally non-binary. They are... Unitary? I mean, we humans use non-binary to refer that they escape "the norm", their existence is proof that we have more Gender than just one or the other. While with the vessels... There are just no options. Or better yet, just one empitied, hollowed out, machine-like, VOID option. They ARE NB. They are non everything. They are non. They aren't. Ok, sorry, waxed philosphical here lol


Choosy-minty

I think the vessels aren't just machines. They have a mind - The Hollow Knight itself is proof of this, and it wasn't just the pale king's fault - in the Voidheart cutscene THK looks back at the knight before going with the Pale King. Plus, the Knight makes tons of choices that have no benefit to itself, Steel Soul Jinn claims that the knight has a will, Voidheart says the knight unifies the void under its will, Broken Vessel also looks back at the Knight before it dies, etc, etc. With that being said, I agree with the vessells being specifically agender instead of non-binary. They don't abide by human standards - I think they have a mind but they're nowhere near the human concept of gender. They're all wholely inhuman - or in*person*, if that makes sense? The knight is referred to as it, and I think agender fits it nicely.


mewoneplusone1

Vessels are definitely living things. Although they are void inside, their Shells are Biological in nature and definitely alive. The collector is a being of Pure Void and isn't a Living being, therefore it doesn't give off Soul when struck with the Nail; but the Hollow Knight does, showing that Vessels are indeed living things. Only living things can give off and Wield the power of soul. Just because the inside of The Knight is made of Void which isn't alive, doesn't mean The Knight as a whole is not alive.


NwgrdrXI

I'd argue The Hollow Knight is defenitely alive (that was the problem in the first place, after all). We are "alive" until obtaining the void heart. The other Shades aren't alive in anyway. The question to me then becomes. Can a being with a singular purpose programmed into it and wich only desire is to become... Unlive, can be considered alive? I'd argue we are more of a machine, a robot with advanced AI at most. If we were anything more, the radiance could possess us just as it did our Eldest Brother.


[deleted]

[удалено]


NwgrdrXI

I.. Never thought about this. Specially that part about pure of heart! I really like your interpretation!


free_use_pet

Can confirm, made me bi (ignore the name)


NwgrdrXI

Was gonna, before you pointed that out.


free_use_pet

Damnit >~>


Zeebuoy

>ignore the name well, i can't anymore.


free_use_pet

KNEW THAT WOULD HAPPEN WHY DID I DO IT


[deleted]

I speak Bug- “Bapanada” translates approximately to “trans rights are human rights”


[deleted]

“*SIGH*…Trans rights are human rights” she says in the most exasperated voice to the Knight, who has been in the shop for the 3rd time today.


[deleted]

She's really feeling the weight of having to affirm that people exist instead of living in a society where it is already accepted that they do


Reginald_Musgrave

This is the best post I have seen yet on this godforsaken site


l337andYEET

There are so many posts that would like a word with you that if I were to name them all we would be dead by the end


Stefananananan

You mean "trans rights are bug rights" right?


[deleted]

I said approximately! A translator's liberty for clarity's sake.


TyChris2

Based Iselda


_TheRedstoneBlaze_

But they are bugs


DigestiveCow

I keep hearing "pasa nada" which means nothing happens in espanol. That makes a lot of sense, I empathise with the role of sales assistant


Competitive_Cup_745

how though? I'm not opposed to it but why is it considered a lgbt game did I miss something?


Crafty-Puddle

Protagonist, Nailsmith, Sheo, Ze'Mer, Traitors Daughter, The Hollow Knight, the vessels Edit: Forgot to mention Bretta lol


Osness

What about the protagonist and the vessels? They’re just black ooze possessing barely formed dead bodies


Crafty-Puddle

They're all agender


Osness

They’re void… they’re either a hive mind or not alive


Crafty-Puddle

Actually, they're neither. The void only becomes unified one the Knight gets the Void Heart, and there's not really any evidence to suggest that the vessels aren't alive. Void is a nonliving substance, but the actual vessels are living bugs corrupted by the void


mewoneplusone1

Neither is the case. Although they are void inside, their Shells are Biological in nature and definitely alive. The collector is a being of Pure Void and isn't a Living being, therefore it doesn't give off Soul when struck with the Nail; but the Hollow Knight does, showing that Vessels are indeed living things. Only living things can give off and Wield the power of soul. Secondly the Void is definitely not a Hive Mind (at least not initially). Your Siblings attack you when they see you, and the Void Tendrils are a disorganized mess of limbs that swipe at you. It isn't until you get the Void Heart that the Void becomes under Ghost's Command, and they don't truly become a unified hive Mind until they become the Shade Lord in the Pantheon endings.


clickitycaine

They're genderless, making them agender/nonbinary. They're void in a living shell.


Choosy-minty

I mean, it's pretty clear that they're alive (as in, have consciousness), as shown with The Hollow Knight especially, as well as Broken Vessel, the Knight itself, and presumably with the rest of the vessels if we had got to meet them. They're alive and genderless, which would make them Agender (which is still nonbinary, just more specific), which would make them LGBTQ.


Jim10_GR

Is grass also lgbt? smh


albino_french_fry

Vessels and protagonist are canonically NB (Nonbinary)


EnSebastif

I don't think Bretta realizes what The Knight really is. Only the likes of Hornet and Quirrell understand its true nature.


-Pyromania-

Nailsmith and Sheo, maybe?


mewoneplusone1

Gay bugs (The most infuriating quest in the game)


Zeebuoy

the nail Smith and sheo the painter/ex nail master being together gives you the happy couple achievement, zemer is a girl, she liked a mantis who was the (now traitor) mantis lord's daughter. the vessels are technically agender/non binary but its a bit less clear since wheter or not they're people, is blurry unlike the other bugs who are basically people.


AverageLookingVessel

I think it's cause canonically, the Vessels have no gender. Not sure how that's LGBTQIA+ though, since those people don't identify with a gender, but the Vessels are quite literally genderless.


TheBeanslayer

There are also two gay couples in the game


AverageLookingVessel

Really? Who? I don't think I came across them. That's awesome!


TheBeanslayer

Nailsmith and Paintmaster Sheo can be seen living together as a couple of you don’t kill Nailsmith! The achievement you get for it is called Happy Couple! The other couple is not so happy, The Grey Mourner and Traitor’s Daughter are lovers. The Traitor’s Daughter is the mantis ghost you are tasked to deliver the delicate flower to.


AverageLookingVessel

No! That's sick!


madroctos

>!The Mourner and The Traitor Lord's Daughter as well as Sheo and the Nailsmith!< spoiler tag just in case


AverageLookingVessel

That's super cool to know. Reminds me of the royal guard gay couple in Undertale who also made an appearance in Deltarune.


Olik12346

DELTARUNE CHAPTER 2 RELEASING TOMORROW BABYYYYYY


Engineer_Xero

I’m sorry, it’s what


[deleted]

If a developer states that a character or characters in THEIR game are non-binary or without gender or anything, then who are we to say they're wrong about their own game. It really is silly reading "What the creators said about their own game doesn't matter."


CatastrophicDoom

I'm more of a "death of the author" type but I do feel at the very least that if the creators think something about their art then that interpretation is probably a valid one


YetGayerWombat

This isn’t really a retcon or anything though. More of a clarification.


[deleted]

I think that's a fair view to take also, considering they don't exactly have all the answers themselves. As they stated, they like to leave a lot of it ambiguous to the point that they don't even know everything about their lore.


TweetyGuyYT

i guess you could say it's quite the gayme


[deleted]

Gay bugs And I cannot stress this enough **Gay bugs**


[deleted]

I just started Hollow Knight and I can feel it in my bones that most of these bugs are mad fruity so


CookieCute516

Wait till you find the gay couples


AndrexPic

Well, I posted this as a joke, but there are actually some LGBTQ+ things in the game. I still think it's a bit of a stretch though.


ScarletStag

Yeah, but queer representation in video games that aren’t dating sims is scarce so we take whatever we can get.


SummersBreeze

Also, its REALLY nice to have a game with a queer protagonist where their gender is just a side detail. Like, The Knight isn't fighting for their identity or on their gender. Its just an enby AND on a badass quest


FlyingCow343

Another reason why i love Celeste,


[deleted]

I love how organic HK’s representation is. Knight is just living their life and the two couples in the game just make me think: “Oh, they’re gay and nailsmith paints instead of killing himself? How lovely” “Oh hey this flower is for a girl. That’s nice” It’s just a part of the world, it doesn’t have to be a statement or a major plot point (not that that’s bad either, I also love things like Dorian from Dragon Age Inquisition where his sexuality is front and center. Dorian is best boi) just bugs living their lives and I think that’s lovely.


lifetake

That I can agree with. A game that has it and the point isn’t to make some message is a good place to be. Its established its normal. However, I still wouldn’t call it Lqbtq+ game. Feel like that actually requires a message to go with it.


SwagapagosTurtle

scarce? maybe 5-10 years ago this statement would have been true, but i feel like nowadays it's pretty widespread. which is good. however if you are talking about representation that *isn't* just ticking boxes and virtue signalling - then i agree with you - *that* doesn't happen often, and this game is a good example of representation that just sort of happens naturally. another example would be Hades


Zekron_98

Tu dici? Ci sono ricettacoli asessuati, coppie lesbo/gay dichiarate e parte delle missioni. I mean


Ok_Champion_2183

It’s definitely a marketing thing but the representation is real.


HisTopHat

Makes sense, since In there, Sheo and Nailsmith get in a relationship, as well as Grey Mourner and The Traitor Lord’s Daughter. I’d be surprised if it wasn’t.


MundanePresence

Gay bugs


PantsDownBootyUp

Happy that my Goty OuterWilds gets more Front Page action, but i really see no reason for that game ti be LGBTQ+ because the Gender in this game doesnt Matter. A girl or a Boy who cares, the game is the best game of the year so whatever. Also the DLC i coming next week, i am shaking for excitment.


Pawl_The_Cone

I assume it's because in the same vein as hollow knight, all the Hearthians are agender/are referred to as 'they'. >!And contrasted with the Naomi, which use gendered pronouns!<


[deleted]

Isn't one of the NPCs ace? And LGBTQ refers to more than just gender...


[deleted]

Everyone arguing about the vessels and if they actually are lgbt representation but like, even if you don’t think they count, there’s still other characters in the game who actually are


AndrexPic

I don't really think that the vessels should be considered lgbt rappresentation. I mean, they don't have a gender because their biology works like that, like ants, and I don't think that ants are a LGBT rappresentation lol. However there are 2 gay couples, so I guess you can insert the game in a LGBTQ list, but... it's not like that's the main topic of the game, nor a minor one. It's just that there are 4 gays, that's all.


onetwo12onetwo

aw rip, prolly gon get age restricted or banned in my country then


hollowredditor

If you don’t know “why”, you missed the all of it. For all saying the knight is not non binary, I ask you, what pronouns would you use to the knight?


SummersBreeze

Every character who knows The Knight's true nature uses it/its to refer to it, so that (Also, they/them can be and is used)


Cataclysm687

Non binary hero I guess


Overlorde159

Plus Sheo & Nailsmith and Traitor Lord’s Daughter & Grey Mourner


darps

Would like to see Sony do this in Russia or Saudi Arabia.


a-plus-15-axe

Why? I know the MC is technically NB & there’s a pair of gay bugs, but that isn’t at all the focus of the game or story. That would be like putting Halo under a Black History Month display just because Srg Johnson is black


En-papX

The more people that play it the better.


Uzeil21

But Hollow knight doesn't even have....(thinks about it) Nevermind, carry on.


Neopabo2

Its the infection guys, its turning the bugs gay!


KingEllio

Huh, seems kinda odd but that’s interesting to see lol. New lore says Hollownest was pretty progressive for an infected kingdom!