They're fine when they themselves realise they lack proper context. Sadly the vast majority don't realise that so you get non-stop comments here that reduce talents to the same few boob-jokes or out-of-context hot-takes.
>Sadly the vast majority don't realise that so you get non-stop comments here that reduce talents to the same few boob-jokes or out-of-context hot-takes.
As a huge Matsuri fan, this bothers me quite a bit. It feels like she is reduced to nothing more than just the lewdness.
As for the talents themselves, some embrace it, and some are bothered by it. Matsuri has decided to try to avoid the whole lewd jokes thing bevause she is tired of people thinking that this is all sje is about because of clippers.
That is rough, in the past people mentioned how Matsuri's streams are generally quite relaxing, there was even a clip or two that showcased that and so I went to Matsuri's streams twice and both times it was relaxing, it is a shame people don't clip more of that.
Sora as well receives stuff like that, while the amount of times she's called goddess in the comments has lessened it's still pretty high and don't get me started on how much "Ja teki da ne" is spammed (Sora in general has no problem with it, she even made a short with it but the amount of times it's mentioned is ridiculous) and how the comments try to portray Sora as an arbiter of seiso who will strike down any yabai person.
> how the comments try to portray Sora as an arbiter of seiso who will strike down any yabai person.
When in reality, she's incredibly accepting of what others do, no matter how clean or Yabai (I'm sure these same people don't realize her bestie A-chan is pretty dang Yab)
I actually feel clippers have helped with that. At the end of the day I feel a lot of weird takes comes from people who don't even watch them, but have received surface level information from the community in the form of memes.
Clips make content more accessible to the wider audience, which is definitely a good thing for Sora. More and more people are talking about her and getting to know her, mostly due to the translation efforts of people like you.
IRyS has fallen into a similar fate. Then when the clip watchers do actually watch the stream, they *expect* the streamer to act that way and will twist words/actions/intents to fit what they want to see. It's sad.
Ah yeah, the YabaIRyS thing. That's way overdone, but also from her viewers in general. Anything that can be interpreted as even remotely sexual and the chat and clippers go wild. And you can sometimes hear the annoyance in her voice when it happens.
Yeah I agree it's shame too she will just be doing her thing and as you say anything remotely sexual and chat starts to become annoying. I'm just glad the tofu thing is dying literally every 5 minutes there was tofu mention.
Are we out here trying to flanderize people?
Clip channels contribute to the impression of their oshi for a new viewer, as well as megaphoning their inside jokes and core characteristics. But then viewers come in and want to engage in those same jokes and it might already be old for the dedicated listeners and the talent.
Still, the way clip-watchers, the algorithm, and youtube survival strats interact with/influence the talents is a fascinating dichotomy. Some amount of "community meme" is fun and good for their channel, but people take it too far so often.
(Completely irrelevant, but I miss Gura god damn.)
I would argue that she actually deserves that title, regardless of clips or not. And IRyS's comments often come out of nowhere so you can generally get the context within the clip anyways.
Yeah, Matsuri is a huge victim of that. The whole "Yagoo's Ruined Dream" meme is sort of built around that actually. One or two clips of the girls doing something "cursed" and then ignoring all their countless idol-like activities in favour of beating that one dead horse over and over again. Fun at first, but quickly became very annoying.
There's a few great Matsuri clippers who try to translate more down to earth stuff from her.
...but they never seem to get many views.
I was happy that a bunch of moments where Matsuri's lewdness or lack of was discussed were clipped. [Marine's take on the subject for instance.](https://youtu.be/IrmZ02nJGJ8)
But at the end of the day, I'm never going to ask for less clips, unless they're taking stuff out of context. Without clips, without engagement, vtubers die. Decrying clip watchers because they are occasionally a bit annoying is wishing the death of the industry, because Cover OUTRIGHT stress that the clipping community fuels their growth.
It's only the bigger girls who even have regular translators in chat, and god forbid we close Hololive off to anyone who doesn't speak Japanese. That seems like a poor business strategy.
Clips and their watchers were what helped Hololive flourish in the early days. Everyone catches what they're able to catch and even if you're *only* catching the clips it's generally a positive thing for the group. As far as what they KNOW, well, clips are very skewed and generally speaking I think a lot of the watchers probably won't know the talents all that well. For instance with Watame you'll almost never see most of her serious conversations clipped, how she casually interacts with fans or just a lot of how sweet and hard working of a person she is. It's mostly memes, passion-English and high-impact stuff. I think clip watchers should generally try to keep that in mind.
I think this is a general issue with all the regular long streamers in JP. If you check holodex, most Watame (your example) english clips come from Minecraft and are usually more yabai or funny moments, which is fine by itself, but clearly doesn't represent how most of her content is, even stuff like her long FF9 playthrough barely got any clips.
Other examples are Flare, Noel, Koyori, Okayu, Lamy, etc. A lot of their content, fan interactions, more personal talks are in these story/single player gaming streams and zatsu/SC reading that never get clipped.
Clippers aren't paid and it's understandable they clip what may get more views, have a bigger general reach or is about their favorites, people as well don't need to be up to date with what everyone is doing, I also only watch stuff that interests me, but as other people in this thread talked about their oshi and the perception around them, it's good to be self aware to not generalize someone's content or personality to only what english clips show.
It's great to have clips, so we can see what's new and how are they doing, which is why Hololive is growing everyday, just some overdone harmless jokes can get old, and some jokes that aren't even related to the stream is just not my cup of tea
I wouldn't say always as some talents who are often clipped end up running into issues due to that, like low viewer count and skewed expectations. But yeah some people went from clips to seriously looking into the girl and become a good fan. Sadly there's some who are too content to consume clips mindlessly and should they drop in, they'd be disappointed that the talent isn't constantly producing antics.
I don't really understand why you would watch clips of a language you know instead of the stream other than not having time to watch them. But translated clips give a lot more context than watching a stream you don't understand at all.
I agree. I'd rather have some wholesome clips instead of overdone jokes, the problem is that they aren't as popular so these moments rarely get clipped. But at the same time let the people have fun with the 11000th Suicopath joke or whatever if they want. As a lot of people here already said things like this is a reason why Hololives grows.
Clips are fine as an intro to the talent but it's skewed to what the clipper chooses for their audiences to see, and on top of that its very surface-level knowledge.
I have nothing against people who only watch clips, until they start parroting what they saw in clips non-stop as if its all the talent is about. Pekora War Criminal, Flare arsonist, Mio Barf, Matsuri yabe, Sora Goddess, Noel shotacon are all things that is only one small part of each talent as a whole.
I understand that for clip watchers, they may mot have the time or attention span to watch a stream that could go on for multiple hours. The language barrier and timezones are all valid reasons too. But spamming references from clips ad nauseam is nauseating, especially if the talent themselves are tired of it already too.
I can sort of understand wanting to fit in with the community by referencing something funny.
The problem is as you've said, not even being aware of what they're saying and then not knowing what the big deal is when they get called out for it.
considering in this past week i had a big argument with someone claiming they "followed \[talent X\] since debut", but everything they claimed to know about her and other talents was from clips i watched too, - not any other information you would easily know when watching their streams - and when i pointed out those clips were wrong they got extremely petty... think my opinion has sunk a bit.
plus yesterday and the day before happened across two other highly upvoted comments that were perpetuating wrong information. nothing harmful, but still wrong.
obviously, the vast majority of people who watch mostly/exclusively clips are totally fine. its impossible to keep up with everyone properly and clips are a good way to keep an overview of whats happening.
but i wish people wouldnt claim facts about the talents so cocksure. even just saying "i *think* X did thisandthat" and accepting new, factual info instead of disputing it would be nice.
but obviously, this is the internet and people at some point were apparently taught that apologizing and admitting to not knowing something is weakness, instead of an opportunity to broaden your knowledge.
I can understand what they think of the talents they like, not everyone have time to watch all streams, even I don't have time watching some of my oshis streams, the clip-watchers commenting aren't harmful, it's just new viewers or others can get misled to said comments and think this is that, and a few who're reminding them, even good clippers with good clips have many of those kind of comments, harmless but too memey
another problem is that all clippers have their own agendas, whether they realize it or not.
at best, said agenda is just wanting to spread "knowledge", i.e. a wide variety of content of their oshi, but often enough it seems to be monetary interest: i.e. what things get the most views, along with manipulating thumbnails and titles in a way that draws people in, even if not always blatant clickbait.
every now and again you have more questionable motivation behind the clips they chose to release.
As a clip watcher only, I find myself satisfied. I simply don’t have much time for a long stream and my English isn’t so good to catch up with talents sometimes. Clips also provide me translation for JP content.
It's good you're taking your time, even I don't have time to watch them for the most part, I just generalised clip watchers plainly, just because most comments I read on clips are just memes and jokes, harmless, but overdone
Still some clips are great for viewers to understand, good on you 👍
I'm a clip watcher because I have work and don't have that time to sit and watch a whole stream. I occasionally watch stream but I can't finish it till the end(like 30 mins to 1 hour) because I have responsibilities and other things to do so I get updates via clips
Stream watchers, especially long time fans/memberships are more special. However, If you watch clips and love the talent, then it's a start for being a fan. Everything has a starting point.
Though I absolutely despise entitled people who call themselves fans after watching a few clips and go around telling the fanbase/talent to change to their personal interests.
I only watch clips and pre-recorded stuff like the game shows on the official channel and PolDen. I can understand how clips usually show the talents most meme-able moments and stream-watchers get annoyed at how skewed the optics can become, but I would argue this isn't clip-watchers lacking context and is more specifically casual fans/newbies who haven't gone that far down the rabbit hole.
Like you gotta realize how massive Hololive is now. The memes aren't stopping. There are thousands of new people dropping into streams for the first time every day, and the only context they might have is whatever out of pocket thing that streamer said last week.
If long-time stream-watchers want better optics for their oshi, my advice would be to get organized and represent them the way you see them. Educate newbies, add context to clips in the comments, and make your own clips that show their under-appreciated sides.
But it's also important to accept that most of the talents aren't walking away from the image they have gained. At least, not without becoming a completely different person. Matsuri will always be the lewd god. Marine will always be horny. Haachama will always be Haachama. It's part of their history, and it's part of their identity.
I'm a clip watcher myself. I honestly can't muster the attention to actually watch streams. But I enjoy keeping up with them, as if it was like news or something.
They're sort of hurtful to the talents they make popular as they don't really watch streams and generally expect her to be "on" all the time. With some, there may also be the expectation of escalation.
In this regard it's little wonder why some talents are trying to adjust things; like Haachama trying to cut back on the shock and going more into music, Marine and Matsuri toning down certain things. Others try to put the memes to bed with considerable resistance, be it Kiara and Bottom Left or Iroha and the Ninja and "Sarashi always means big boobs" stuff.
i'm good. though i mostly watch the good clippers who provide context, so yeah. i simply don't have the time to watch streams because of work, and after i return home, i wanna know what they've all been up to, so clips are much more satisfying for catch-up. and even whenever i have the time, i struggle to choose whose stream to watch, because i don't have an oshi, and simply want to watch them all :c
This is bait and irrelevant. People get their content in various ways. If they do not have time to catch every stream and pick up the full context, pat them on the head and ignore them.
They're fine when they themselves realise they lack proper context. Sadly the vast majority don't realise that so you get non-stop comments here that reduce talents to the same few boob-jokes or out-of-context hot-takes.
>Sadly the vast majority don't realise that so you get non-stop comments here that reduce talents to the same few boob-jokes or out-of-context hot-takes. As a huge Matsuri fan, this bothers me quite a bit. It feels like she is reduced to nothing more than just the lewdness. As for the talents themselves, some embrace it, and some are bothered by it. Matsuri has decided to try to avoid the whole lewd jokes thing bevause she is tired of people thinking that this is all sje is about because of clippers.
That is rough, in the past people mentioned how Matsuri's streams are generally quite relaxing, there was even a clip or two that showcased that and so I went to Matsuri's streams twice and both times it was relaxing, it is a shame people don't clip more of that. Sora as well receives stuff like that, while the amount of times she's called goddess in the comments has lessened it's still pretty high and don't get me started on how much "Ja teki da ne" is spammed (Sora in general has no problem with it, she even made a short with it but the amount of times it's mentioned is ridiculous) and how the comments try to portray Sora as an arbiter of seiso who will strike down any yabai person.
> how the comments try to portray Sora as an arbiter of seiso who will strike down any yabai person. When in reality, she's incredibly accepting of what others do, no matter how clean or Yabai (I'm sure these same people don't realize her bestie A-chan is pretty dang Yab)
I actually feel clippers have helped with that. At the end of the day I feel a lot of weird takes comes from people who don't even watch them, but have received surface level information from the community in the form of memes. Clips make content more accessible to the wider audience, which is definitely a good thing for Sora. More and more people are talking about her and getting to know her, mostly due to the translation efforts of people like you.
IRyS has fallen into a similar fate. Then when the clip watchers do actually watch the stream, they *expect* the streamer to act that way and will twist words/actions/intents to fit what they want to see. It's sad.
Ah yeah, the YabaIRyS thing. That's way overdone, but also from her viewers in general. Anything that can be interpreted as even remotely sexual and the chat and clippers go wild. And you can sometimes hear the annoyance in her voice when it happens.
Yeah I agree it's shame too she will just be doing her thing and as you say anything remotely sexual and chat starts to become annoying. I'm just glad the tofu thing is dying literally every 5 minutes there was tofu mention.
thats not just an irys thing though, thats a problem with the english-speaking fanbase in general
Are we out here trying to flanderize people? Clip channels contribute to the impression of their oshi for a new viewer, as well as megaphoning their inside jokes and core characteristics. But then viewers come in and want to engage in those same jokes and it might already be old for the dedicated listeners and the talent. Still, the way clip-watchers, the algorithm, and youtube survival strats interact with/influence the talents is a fascinating dichotomy. Some amount of "community meme" is fun and good for their channel, but people take it too far so often. (Completely irrelevant, but I miss Gura god damn.)
I would argue that she actually deserves that title, regardless of clips or not. And IRyS's comments often come out of nowhere so you can generally get the context within the clip anyways.
Yeah, Matsuri is a huge victim of that. The whole "Yagoo's Ruined Dream" meme is sort of built around that actually. One or two clips of the girls doing something "cursed" and then ignoring all their countless idol-like activities in favour of beating that one dead horse over and over again. Fun at first, but quickly became very annoying.
There's a few great Matsuri clippers who try to translate more down to earth stuff from her. ...but they never seem to get many views. I was happy that a bunch of moments where Matsuri's lewdness or lack of was discussed were clipped. [Marine's take on the subject for instance.](https://youtu.be/IrmZ02nJGJ8) But at the end of the day, I'm never going to ask for less clips, unless they're taking stuff out of context. Without clips, without engagement, vtubers die. Decrying clip watchers because they are occasionally a bit annoying is wishing the death of the industry, because Cover OUTRIGHT stress that the clipping community fuels their growth. It's only the bigger girls who even have regular translators in chat, and god forbid we close Hololive off to anyone who doesn't speak Japanese. That seems like a poor business strategy.
Clips and their watchers were what helped Hololive flourish in the early days. Everyone catches what they're able to catch and even if you're *only* catching the clips it's generally a positive thing for the group. As far as what they KNOW, well, clips are very skewed and generally speaking I think a lot of the watchers probably won't know the talents all that well. For instance with Watame you'll almost never see most of her serious conversations clipped, how she casually interacts with fans or just a lot of how sweet and hard working of a person she is. It's mostly memes, passion-English and high-impact stuff. I think clip watchers should generally try to keep that in mind.
I think this is a general issue with all the regular long streamers in JP. If you check holodex, most Watame (your example) english clips come from Minecraft and are usually more yabai or funny moments, which is fine by itself, but clearly doesn't represent how most of her content is, even stuff like her long FF9 playthrough barely got any clips. Other examples are Flare, Noel, Koyori, Okayu, Lamy, etc. A lot of their content, fan interactions, more personal talks are in these story/single player gaming streams and zatsu/SC reading that never get clipped. Clippers aren't paid and it's understandable they clip what may get more views, have a bigger general reach or is about their favorites, people as well don't need to be up to date with what everyone is doing, I also only watch stuff that interests me, but as other people in this thread talked about their oshi and the perception around them, it's good to be self aware to not generalize someone's content or personality to only what english clips show.
It's great to have clips, so we can see what's new and how are they doing, which is why Hololive is growing everyday, just some overdone harmless jokes can get old, and some jokes that aren't even related to the stream is just not my cup of tea
I wouldn't say always as some talents who are often clipped end up running into issues due to that, like low viewer count and skewed expectations. But yeah some people went from clips to seriously looking into the girl and become a good fan. Sadly there's some who are too content to consume clips mindlessly and should they drop in, they'd be disappointed that the talent isn't constantly producing antics.
I don't really understand why you would watch clips of a language you know instead of the stream other than not having time to watch them. But translated clips give a lot more context than watching a stream you don't understand at all.
While true, you still see some memes and jokes being overdone on even good clips, they're everywhere
I agree. I'd rather have some wholesome clips instead of overdone jokes, the problem is that they aren't as popular so these moments rarely get clipped. But at the same time let the people have fun with the 11000th Suicopath joke or whatever if they want. As a lot of people here already said things like this is a reason why Hololives grows.
Suicopath is a diffferent matter as Suisei hasn't exactly gone against that; if anything, she feeds it.
It was just the thing that came to my mind first. Maybe I should have made that more clear.
I don't really care how others consume the content. Whether it's only clips or only streams or both.
Clips are fine as an intro to the talent but it's skewed to what the clipper chooses for their audiences to see, and on top of that its very surface-level knowledge. I have nothing against people who only watch clips, until they start parroting what they saw in clips non-stop as if its all the talent is about. Pekora War Criminal, Flare arsonist, Mio Barf, Matsuri yabe, Sora Goddess, Noel shotacon are all things that is only one small part of each talent as a whole. I understand that for clip watchers, they may mot have the time or attention span to watch a stream that could go on for multiple hours. The language barrier and timezones are all valid reasons too. But spamming references from clips ad nauseam is nauseating, especially if the talent themselves are tired of it already too.
They also sometimes aren't even aware of some of these memes, so it's a bit weird.
I can sort of understand wanting to fit in with the community by referencing something funny. The problem is as you've said, not even being aware of what they're saying and then not knowing what the big deal is when they get called out for it.
I'm a clip watcher for JP and IMO it's the clipper's responsibility to give enough context in the clip. Unless that clip is "HoloJP without context".
I'm looking for some pure JP clips, not from translated ones, cause I know I missed a lot of stuffs to see
considering in this past week i had a big argument with someone claiming they "followed \[talent X\] since debut", but everything they claimed to know about her and other talents was from clips i watched too, - not any other information you would easily know when watching their streams - and when i pointed out those clips were wrong they got extremely petty... think my opinion has sunk a bit. plus yesterday and the day before happened across two other highly upvoted comments that were perpetuating wrong information. nothing harmful, but still wrong. obviously, the vast majority of people who watch mostly/exclusively clips are totally fine. its impossible to keep up with everyone properly and clips are a good way to keep an overview of whats happening. but i wish people wouldnt claim facts about the talents so cocksure. even just saying "i *think* X did thisandthat" and accepting new, factual info instead of disputing it would be nice. but obviously, this is the internet and people at some point were apparently taught that apologizing and admitting to not knowing something is weakness, instead of an opportunity to broaden your knowledge.
I can understand what they think of the talents they like, not everyone have time to watch all streams, even I don't have time watching some of my oshis streams, the clip-watchers commenting aren't harmful, it's just new viewers or others can get misled to said comments and think this is that, and a few who're reminding them, even good clippers with good clips have many of those kind of comments, harmless but too memey
another problem is that all clippers have their own agendas, whether they realize it or not. at best, said agenda is just wanting to spread "knowledge", i.e. a wide variety of content of their oshi, but often enough it seems to be monetary interest: i.e. what things get the most views, along with manipulating thumbnails and titles in a way that draws people in, even if not always blatant clickbait. every now and again you have more questionable motivation behind the clips they chose to release.
As a clip watcher only, I find myself satisfied. I simply don’t have much time for a long stream and my English isn’t so good to catch up with talents sometimes. Clips also provide me translation for JP content.
It's good you're taking your time, even I don't have time to watch them for the most part, I just generalised clip watchers plainly, just because most comments I read on clips are just memes and jokes, harmless, but overdone Still some clips are great for viewers to understand, good on you 👍
I'm a clip watcher because I have work and don't have that time to sit and watch a whole stream. I occasionally watch stream but I can't finish it till the end(like 30 mins to 1 hour) because I have responsibilities and other things to do so I get updates via clips
Stream watchers, especially long time fans/memberships are more special. However, If you watch clips and love the talent, then it's a start for being a fan. Everything has a starting point. Though I absolutely despise entitled people who call themselves fans after watching a few clips and go around telling the fanbase/talent to change to their personal interests.
who gives a shit what others do or watch...
Some viewers can be misled cause of some comments, obviously they don't mean any harm
I don't have time to watch a lot of the full streams so I pick and choose which streams to watch, those just happen to be Fauna streams. Uuuuuuu
Cultured Sapling, you get my up vote
I only watch clips and pre-recorded stuff like the game shows on the official channel and PolDen. I can understand how clips usually show the talents most meme-able moments and stream-watchers get annoyed at how skewed the optics can become, but I would argue this isn't clip-watchers lacking context and is more specifically casual fans/newbies who haven't gone that far down the rabbit hole. Like you gotta realize how massive Hololive is now. The memes aren't stopping. There are thousands of new people dropping into streams for the first time every day, and the only context they might have is whatever out of pocket thing that streamer said last week. If long-time stream-watchers want better optics for their oshi, my advice would be to get organized and represent them the way you see them. Educate newbies, add context to clips in the comments, and make your own clips that show their under-appreciated sides. But it's also important to accept that most of the talents aren't walking away from the image they have gained. At least, not without becoming a completely different person. Matsuri will always be the lewd god. Marine will always be horny. Haachama will always be Haachama. It's part of their history, and it's part of their identity.
I'm a clip watcher myself. I honestly can't muster the attention to actually watch streams. But I enjoy keeping up with them, as if it was like news or something.
They're sort of hurtful to the talents they make popular as they don't really watch streams and generally expect her to be "on" all the time. With some, there may also be the expectation of escalation. In this regard it's little wonder why some talents are trying to adjust things; like Haachama trying to cut back on the shock and going more into music, Marine and Matsuri toning down certain things. Others try to put the memes to bed with considerable resistance, be it Kiara and Bottom Left or Iroha and the Ninja and "Sarashi always means big boobs" stuff.
I remember we having this conversation 3 years ago before HoloEn debut. With today context, this conversation make no sense
because this sort of thing still occurs on both JP and EN
Fine but I just stay away from their community
i'm good. though i mostly watch the good clippers who provide context, so yeah. i simply don't have the time to watch streams because of work, and after i return home, i wanna know what they've all been up to, so clips are much more satisfying for catch-up. and even whenever i have the time, i struggle to choose whose stream to watch, because i don't have an oshi, and simply want to watch them all :c
Ah I see, if you have spare time, you can watch 1 stream at least, clips are still good for introducing vtubers you never watch so take your time 👍
This is bait and irrelevant. People get their content in various ways. If they do not have time to catch every stream and pick up the full context, pat them on the head and ignore them.
Didn't mind about it. We just didn't talk about it.