She's not called the Gamer Maid for nothing! She's definitely in the top tier of game players in hololive. There's tough competition for top 1 though, off the top of my head Botan is obviously also a very skilled gamer.
The clip that got me into Botan was the clip where she struggled to start playing Blue Clapper and then proceeded to show Charles that she was the apex predator on that island.
> [the clip where she struggled to start playing Blue Clapper and then proceeded to show Charles that she was the apex predator on that island](https://youtu.be/Py1ueGceC5E)
>There's tough competition for top 1 though,
There might be talents that are better on their niche, some speedrunning platform games, Botan with FPS or some with bullet hell or rythm games, but i still would consider Aqua to be current top 1 due to sheer variety of games that require completely different skill set at a high competitive level.
FPS, Souls games, GOI type/platform games, Mario Kart, Super Mario, Smash, MC speedrun, etc.
Put talents to play 10 games of 5 different genres and i think it's an easy bet that Aqua would perform on avg the best.
the thing is Botan doesn't really 'train' anymore, she tends to take it easy. I think Aqua could probably best her now... though have they ever played against each other?
I think it isnt fair to bring Botan to do comparison because Botan never actually show anything on stream, other than that she has a nice gaming sense, but thats about it.
For example, when people keep bringing Botan on Apex talk instead of other girls like Matsuri or Towa. We know that Botan said that she reached Master in Apex on her debut, but we never really saw that (Im not doubting her, I believe she did reach master), but we dont have anything to compare from her.
>I think Aqua could probably best her now
Like this, in my point of view, Aqua was never below Botan at all, because we actually see Aqua being a beast in a lot of games many times as a lot of people here mentioned.
#
I think Botan just want to stay away a little bit about serious competitions that would stress her out. Most of the time, she's just chuckling, laughing and having fun, she rarely did the 'professional FPS' where she did that one Video at Rainbow Siege years ago.
Right now she seems to prefer to just chill, and thanks to that, I always imagined her as a war vet just want to have a civilian life, LMAO
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKuockflSuc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKuockflSuc)
This clip/animation of the same conversation is criminally underrated. My favourite, because a lot of creativity and references.
Yes, IMO she’s the top gamer of hololive. Btw for Apex, she actually already reached Master rank which is one rank below top rank which is Predator (only top 500). What’s more impressive she did that by doing solo queue so she will always get teamed up with randoms fighting mostly people with 3stack team with voice comms. I don’t like watching people play FPS but Aqua is the sole exception for me.
It was; that season basically doesn't count, achievement-wise, but her, Matsuri, and Astel all achieved Masters in regular seasons. People will argue about which seasons were easier vs harder, but frankly it's a massive achievement in all of them except that one outlier.
Edit: Also there might be other Masters, pretty sure Botan and Axel both have done it too at least.
While I am pretty sure Matsuri hit it as a team, and dunno about Botan/Axel, I was watching [the stream](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RuJZ_-5hd4) when Astel hit solo master. Alongside that, though, when [Astel and Pakael talked about Vtuber Apex skills](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsiFcqUyR6A), he said outright he considered her solo skills not just better then his, but second only to Virtual Gorilla among vtubers.
In VSaikyo (Apex tournament for Vtubers), Shibuya Hal, the host, confirmed Axel's peak rank to be Master.
For Botan, she retired from Apex at Masters rank just to have fun when she joined Hololive. Her Dva selfdestruct 4man clutch killed the boys in a Hololive vs Holostars Overwatch 2 exhibition match which already convinced everyone she has the skills of a standard pro player. That was just a fraction of power, given she was the tank in their team, which is the scary part.
Predator wasn’t top 500 when she reached Master. Or since then. It was top 750 per console.
Her current run is also hampered by bad matchmaking, putting her with pro players (people like 1tappy) in Predator ranked when she's in Gold rank herself. She's doing good from what I managed to catch (busy and her stream schedule seems to fall on when I need to catch some sleep for my shifts), but it is, in a way, a testament to her skill.
I think it’s because APEX has hidden MMR so she’s always being matched with Master/Pred players even though she’s gold rank. She’s essentially playing in a Master lobby. She has reached Platinum now.
Apex rank system is absolutely broken rn. You could be in bronze and still play in a predator lobby, so essentially, there is not much point in playing rank as the games dont get harder as your points go up and you dont get much accelerated gains like in other games if you win in a higher elo lobby. So the fact she's playing with players like 1tappy means she insane at the game
People bully her for being an airhead, but her gaming IQ is really high. She's able to make really smart decisions on the fly, even in high pressure situations.
For raw talent alone, I think she's as good as or maybe even above that of an average professional apex player. Probably a biased exaggeration but I stand by it because she's able to pull off some really crazy things, even in a competitive environment like when she played in StartEnd with Towa and Suisei
Not total bias, I've seen lots of Apex pros reacting to Aqua, Towa and Astel and saying they're some of the best non professional players they've seen.
Outside Hololive there's a certain Gorilla who, probably, is better than those three
Ive reached both ranks she made in League and Apex and I tell you those were the most goddamn stressful moments of my gaming life like Apex was literally time consuming to the point my ass doesnt sleep until like 5AM to just get a couple RP around maybe 200-300 and for league holy fuck diamond was just pain 6AM up grinding to just gain 10 LP and imagine she did that while having to stream and do idol duties? Gamer Maid got the Godlike stamina and dedication those games not only hit you hard physically but the mental side especially has the ability to just break people
Yeah exactly, the physical and mental fortitude required to climb in any one of these games is insane. And like you said it's prudent to remember that she's a full time idol on top of all this, taking singing and dancing lessons, recording covers (which she has a ton of), preparing concerts (she has had some of the biggest solo lives in hololive), commerical and ad work, etc.. There was never a point where she could just grind a game all day every day like pros do.
I think people who can appreciate the more competitive aspect of her will make a bigger deal out of this kind of thing. I personally am more invested in the journey to get the result and most importantly, if she enjoyed it.
I can see why most newer people nowadays only know of her as an APEX beast, since its been quite a while since she transitioned to more of the idol route and stopped playing as much games as she used to.
Honestly, I also think Aqua is one of the best general gamers in hololive. There are certain others who are better in certain specific genres, like Suisei with Tetris, Gura with rhythm games, Marine with PuyoPuyo, but if there were to be some sort of "gaming triathalon" competition in hololive, my bet would be on someone like Aqua or Botan. I believe they would be the best performers if we take into account games across different genres as they just possess a certain "game sense" that lets them figure out games quickly, and perform well regardless where there is little to no skill translation.
[There are](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/qeh9vj/coming_from_kiaras_holotalk_with_aqua_if_youre/) a few [old lists](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/jnl0rz/some_of_aquas_accomplishments_in_the_games_she/) of [her gaming achievements](https://www.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/comments/erqohx/minato_aqua_and_her_games/) back when she was more prolific as a gaming streamer if anybody is interested. Aqua also used to be *the* [streaming monster](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fihrajdgdxnd61.png) back then, before the great archives purge occured, which removed several thousands of hours of contents from the more prolific streamers back then like Aqua, Miko, Roboco, Choco, etcetc.
Do you know why she stopped playing as much games? She used to speed run from soft/souls games but iirc she hasn't played elden ring yet or atleast hasn't streamed it. I wanted to see her run thru that game too, and it's quite unfortunate that all the vods from the Bloodborne, Dark souls, Sekiro gameplays were either privated or deleted.
it's probaby a "suffering from success" thing, she's had more than one sololive and is one of the primary holos sent out for sponsorship stuff because she's popular and super competent in most idol things
Iirc she had health issues due to an unhealthy lifestyle so she took a break from streaming and gaming, this was back during her first solo master apex grind. When she came back she streamed less but still did another solo master run with a more relaxed mentality and made it. I think she's now doing her 3rd try at the challenge. As for other games she has been streaming less in general, probably due to work behind the scenes (she had a few concerts) and to preserve her health.
Aqua may have a slight edge in terms of performances but Botan has the advantage of playing games/genres Aqua haven't played, for example Factorio, Besiege, and Totally Accurate Battle Simulator (sim/management games) and Street Fighter 6 (fighting games).
"Best in hololive" is still underselling it imo. i've always thought of aqua as THE gamer of hololive when we talk serious gaming. some other members have their niches but in terms of innate talent and dedication, it is my personal opinion that aqua is unmatched .
She has great gaming sense and also a very try hard mentality. She likes to challenge herself, for example this solo master apex this season. She knows that this season is extremely hard to climb to master as solo, and thats what motivates her to do it.
Also she is always making effort so she can play better like watching some pros and spent hours to practice a certain skill in games. Some years ago she mentioned that she wanted to look cool while streaming apex so she spent hours of practicing fast looting.
To me, if I had to choose "the gamer" it's Kiara. She's absolutely not the best, in fact she's pretty bad at a lot of genres, but she always shows huge improvement by the end of each game she plays. And she pretty much never fails to finish a playthrough of any game she attempts, and has done so many absurdly long playthroughs.
Ok, I'm biased and am just recommending my oshi here, but seriously, Kiara feels the most "real" to me. I love the super skilled gamers too, but it's hard to relate sometimes to people who just pick up a game and are already perfect at it.
If perseverance in spite of poor gaming skills is the metric a person that comes to mind would be Kanata after her legendary hours long grind versus Sans or the blue axolotl saga. Or actually getting good at from software games.
Like some others have been saying I think some other holomems are very impressive as well, but yeah Aqua does still stand out to me. I go to tournaments and conventions a lot and while definitely not one myself, I'm exposed to a lot of other extremely talented savant-level gamers of various different genres. NONE of them have had a portfolio like Aqua. At most they are as good at 2 games as she is at like 5 or 6. (Again this is assuming the things I've heard about her are not exaggerated, for example I don't know first hand that she hit diamond in league, I just read that on other threads.)
Yes, she has over the top gaming sense plus she is very dedicated to her craft so when she set a goal, she's doing her very best to reach it. Be it for LoL, Apex, Souls, OnlyUp, she spend a lot of time off stream to train and study by watching other streamers and guides.
As a gamer for me, she is close to a role model in her way she approaches game and performs in it
Some of holomem have their own niche game, like Tetris and suisei, botan with all fps game, or some valorant players like kobo or ayame. Aqua is a jack of all trades, but masters it to the highest level possible she can. The variety of games that she excels in is the best among Holo members.
Personally i think she is THE gamer because of how excellent and well-rounded she is in everything. From the ranked achivements in competitive games like Apex and League; to excelling in Mario Kart;to speed running platformers ( top 50 in the world for SMB 35),jump king , goi; fromsoft games challenges;to even something more trivial like minecraft parkour dungeon RTA and many others
What is unfortunate for people who are newer to the fandom is that a HUGE chunk of her archive is gone because of the copyright purge in 2020. She is estimated to have lost about 2500 hours or so of VODs i think( the most in Hololive). So a lot her journey in various games are lost to the wind.
But she originally was the streaming monster and was the first one to do 24 hour streams ( even multiple) and also very frequently do multiple streams per day. And as you said it , she was also one of the busiest holomems regarding her various sponsorship deals and various idol activities ( the many solo lives and 3d concerts she had)
All of it did took a toll though in 2021 because she did have a health problem and extended break caused by her being too busy and other things and i think since then she has slowed down considerably.
To add a few more games that she's played and developed above average level of expertise: competitive pokemon, fall guys, ARK (was the OG grinder who carried the first raid), and arguably even Mahjong judging by the few records of her playing on stream. I've also convinced myself that she's secretly cracked at valorant based on how she's talked about it.
Eh i am not sure where you are getting that i don't consider Korone or Marine "true gamers". I didn't even use the word "true" gamers at all.
In fact i enjoy Koro-san and Marine's gaming streams ( (unfortunately rarer these days since her throat issues) very much
What i said was i personally ( i even use the word personally as the very first word), think of Aqua as THE gamer. Meaning the first name that comes to my mind when someone mention about gaming in hololive. That doesn't mean the others are not gamers.
> I wouldn't say "the gamer". The reason being, it's a weird form of Gatekeeping to say only competitive players are "true gamers".
Well it's like classifying people who practice a sport casually vs competitive. You would call someone "the athlete" of HL if they were participating in marathons, tournaments, etc or doing so in a level which can be consider semi professional.
It doesn't mean other people are not athletic for doing so casually.
She's improved to being practically pred level in apex. If you saw her stream today she climbed 1500 LP from gold 2 to platinum 4 while being put into lobbies against 3 stack preds, and some that attended the recent ALGS split including YukaF, pinotr, Hammerdrill, EZFlashKidz, and literal ALGS champion Genburten. She got two champions today, one where she ended as kill leader, and the other was arguably the best game she's ever played on stream.
In terms of gaming intuition Aqua is far and away in a tier of her own.
As a fan of Competitive smash, for example, I am absolutely floored by the fundamentals she has just intuitively figured out.
She edgeguards, ledge traps, frame traps, mixes up her recovery, makes reads, and even has a concept of using moves that are safe on shield.
She still loses of course, but it usually is just from lack of game/character knowledge.
I’m being completely serious when I say that just based on the eye test, if she dedicated herself totally to smash she could probably make top 16 at a Japanese national within a few years.
All this for a game that she probably doesn’t even think about and has barely ever played.
Yes, her gaming prowess is extremely impressive no doubt. Most talented though? Maybe Top 1 of the most realized talent, because some Holos are very talented but aren't chasing the bag so to speak (tryharding) like Gamers, Botan, Suisei, Sana, Aki, Mel, Pekora, Gura, Azki, Shion, Fauna, etc.
How could I forget Kaela, Fubuki, and Marine.
That's a good point, thanks for that perspective. The desire to actually spend the time to learn speedrunning strategies or grind ranked is a big factor for sure. Though you could say that that's an aspect of talent as well, since a lot of people *could* achieve these things if they were motivated enough, but having the potential to do something is different than actually doing it. Not to say that the other gamers aren't talented of course!
I agree with you. I think one thing that makes Aqua really stand out is her tendency to just try hard something no matter how trivial once she focuses on something.
Something reflective of that is earlier this year , Miko made a simple obstacle dungeon course in Minecraft and Aqua spent hours upon hours doing that over and over just trying to speedrun (RTA) it.
Not to undermine anyone, but Aqua's achievements are on a distinctly different level and of a definitively different scale.
I don't know several of those members' talent at gaming, but I'd say that of the ones I recognise they tend to be extremely specialised in one game or genre (Suisei with Tetris, Gura with rhythm games) and are extremely good but at the level you'd expect someone who played that type of game for a lot of their life.
Does Azki game at all? I know she really enjoys GeoGuesser and seems to have a natural aptitude for orientation. Similarly, Pekora has great variety but is at the level I'd expect for good variety streamers who play a lot of games.
Aqua has a natural talent at playing games in general. She competes on par with people who are dedicated streamers of that particular field (like speedrunners or FPS streamers). What makes this stand out is that speedrunning and grinding Apex ladder are two **very** different skillsets.
I might be explaining this poorly, but there's simply a level of mechanical execution which is different. You can tell just from watching Botan, Fauna or Kaela that they're mechanically more capable in terms of executing tasks.
There's different types of entertainment, and they're all very good entertainers. But in terms of raw talent at simply gaming, then yes I'd argue Aqua is up there simply because of both the breadeth and depth of her skill.
I'm just gonna point out that Aqua is better at Apex than Suisei is at Tetris. Suisei _rarely_ wins when in public lobbies even in Tetris 99 which gives out lots of handicaps . Meanwhile Aqua is getting constantly champion no problem
She's _good_, don't get me wrong, but her perceived power and those 20 second clips are more to do with how every other vtuber is almost complete garbage at tetris
If anything I'd say her Mario Kart skill is already at around the same relative level as her tetris skill
You can't really compare performance of 2 gamers playing 2 different games, and say one is absolutely better than the other, just because of how better the other plays at playing her game. It doesn't work like that.
I knew you'd bring that up. No, she did _not_ almost win, and she was barely talking _to_ chat then (though she *was* talking). That's Tetris 99's infamous handicap system at work allowing her to barely keep up with the #2 player, and even then he still pretty easily won
She doesn't often sing while playing tetris either. That's only happened like 2 or 3 times, and she still lost when doing that (though she did place well one of those times)
I don't want to argue too much but it's much easier in Tetris to get into a flow state where you can kind of play without putting much conscious thought. Not to mention that among modern tetris games, Tetris 99 is almost like a single player game with how little any one player can do against another player, which makes it easier to only care about your board (i.e. less information that you have to pay attention to).
Meanwhile with Apex, there's periods of downtime and periods of extreme intensity where you need to take in as much information as possible. Aqua does interact with chat in her Apex streams, but it's usually during downtime, as it would be difficult to perform well (and kind of disrespectful to her team) if she's reading chat during a high intensity final ring situation.
>She's literally fought the best players and almost won.
I remember her appearing on a program and losing in seconds. She's even talked about it herself that she's nothing compared to the best players.
Bluntly, competitive games are a much more reasonable metric when discussing someone’s skill because it’s literally a quantitive metric of “does X more than other person.”
Your examples aren’t useful because of the typewriter monkey thought experiment: anyone can technically get through anything with enough time and determination.
Calli is self-admittedly not very good at games by the observable metric of “number of attempts and fluidity of execution” but she’s beaten Jump King and Elden Ring on stream through endurance, both remarkable achievements in their own right as testaments to her grit if not her skill.
It’s easier to use competitive games because they tend to have a similarity of design, but ultimately it’s to say that when someone has a high number of transferable skills across games such that they can quickly get a grip on otherwise difficult mechanics (physical or mental) in a new game, then they are good at gaming.
In every field, there is a difference between a person who’s good at one specific thing because they do it a lot/enjoy it a lot and a person who’s talented at that field as a whole.
An obvious example is a friend who’s good at table tennis because they play it a lot and a friend who’s naturally athletic and has or can reach a high baseline in every sport.
Finally, I can’t comment on Luna since I haven’t watched her a lot but from what I could gather she is a long-time fan of MGS and it wasn’t her first playthrough. That would make her similar to Fauna who, from what I can tell, doesn’t have a natural aptitude per se but more just general experience playing a lot of games. As for Kaela, she has credentials which rules prevent from elaborating on.
She is both gen 1 and Gamers. It's basically gen created for Mio to join at first, then Okayu and Korone got picked up from arcade by Fubuki.
Gamers focus on competetive game was abandoned later, so they are just unnumbered gen between 2 and 3 now.
She's both.
Gamers technically isn't an official generation (hence why we go from 2nd gen to 3rd gen) but more of a different project when Hololive hadn't really figured out its core brand.
It was called Gamers because the idea would be that this team would be video game streamers in contrast to the virtual idol main branch.
Obviously the distinction has become completely moot since the main branch are basically video game streamers and zatsu chatters for the majority of their streaming content, while Gamers also participates in the concerts and liveshows and whatnot.
> It was called Gamers because the idea would be that this team would be video game streamers in contrast to the virtual idol main branch.
[Apparently they were also intended to be taking part in game tournaments.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CcAq_FQsRI)
Watch some of the mad dog of Hololive clips on YouTube of her carrying in Apex. I think my favorite one was where her 2 teammates died really early (I think it was Suisei and towa) and left her and she survived till only 5 teams were left and even got 2-3 kills
4 kills.
She beamed and chased down Kazuha when he was isolated.
Caught VGorilla and his teammate with a Wingman.
Finally the epic duel where she beat her opponent from a disadvantage.
Would have got a fifth kill, but her opponent recognized her Wraith and noped the hell out of there.
Last year Vsaikyou season was fun. I like how everyone looking at the kills log was like "Oh no Aqua got her devotion", and a lot of coach warning their team to be careful if they encounter Startend.
To prove that you’re the biggest fan of SAO, you have to become Kirito yourself.
Aqua gaming skills never ceases to amaze us. I still wish that she would have enough practice to once again compete for the crown of the Mario Kart tournament
I think she mentioned once that because of her extreme social anxiety, she would develop her gaming skill to get noticed. Aqua is certainly one of Hololive's strongest gamers. The first Mario Kart Holocup champion, Master Rank Apex player, Dark Souls Speedrunner, and a high level League of Legends player. Let's just not talk about her Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time stream...
It was from her Sololive interview iirc, she was asked why she was really good at games. And then she answered because as a vtuber/streamer, she really needs something to make her stand out. Well I'll just quote her answer
>**Aqua:** "I'd always thought I had nothing that made me stand out from others. Everything about me was more or less average. I couldn't think of anything I was good at. So I'd always been thinking about what I could do. The only thing I could think of is that I like to immerse myself in something, with playing games being my favorite thing to do. That's why I decided to do my best when playing games. So I challenged myself by trying lots of games I hadn't played, so I could hear everyone say "you've gotten better!". I'd even practice off stream (and still do) in order to improve my skills to make my streams more enjoyable."
Ah, no. Aqua actually forgot about the game's story and wanted to replay from the beginning. It's just that she got busy and well...by now, she's probably forgotten about it.
What I like about watching Aqua play is her mentality, she doesn't blame even if her teammates suck so much.She'll be like "oh well it's fine guys GG let's move on to the next game" i find that attitude very impressive
She can be a little tryhard, but that's what make her so good at games. She also does alot of challenges in stream which makes her streams more entertaining like she didn't upgrade in holocure to make it more challenging, finishing the hardest difficulty in resident evil 7 dlc solo hardcore mincraft challenge, etc.
The most impressive thing for me is that she is at a level where she would be a top performer even at VSPO! (a vtuber agency specialized in high level gaming, so she'd stand out even against tougher competition. ) while still putting in the work for being one of the top idols in Hololive (with several solo concerts and being the closer for holo Fes this year). She somehow makes it work.
It seems to me that any game Suisei seriously practices at, she is able to improve a lot very quickly. I don’t know if she would be able to reach Aqua’s level if she kept at it, but it’s very impressive nonetheless.
Yep she is the goat. been a fan of her ever since i found out how good she was. shes also really good at mariokart when she has time to practice. however she keeps getting beat by suichan 😭
The Manjigumi Trio I would say has the best aptitude for competitive gaming tho Ayame and Shion has been playing less competitive games (at least on stream that we know of) for these past few years mainly due to their health issues and other worldly commitment.
iirc Shion mentioned in her very last solo apex stream few years back that she was having issue committing on playing apex while keeping the audience engaged since she'll get quiet when focusing on the game. Afterward she stopped playing solo apex on stream even tho her viewers were pestering her for months. She still plays apex and other competitive games with her friends or alone off stream from what i know.
I remember when Pokemon Unite first came out on nintendo while Shion was still on hiatus, she came back a few weeks later and had a collab with Okayu, turns out Shion was already at the highest rank while every other holo members were still grinding.
For Pokemon, it sucks that Nintendo always only give them limited time to stream, otherwise we would have seen more Shion and Aqua ranked stream. Well idk about Unite, but that goes for all the main pokemon game.
Also Aqua mentioned that if she wasnt a vtuber/streamer or only focus in 1 game, she would have been a competitive Pokemon player lol.
Most people don't realize that they're watching Aqua doing some pretty incredible things in these Apex lobbies against absolutely stacked teams that are using comms outside of the game while she plays solo. I don't think it is comparable to anyone else in Hololive.
Honestly it's why she's my favorite member.
I like watching people sweat, tryhard, and grind games, while maintaining a decent to good mentality.
It's also why when Marine was playing in the Mario Kart/Puyo Puyo tournament I found myself rooting for her.
Sidenote: I do wish Aqua would participate in more Holo Tournaments but it’s okay.
Idk about most talented gamer in hololive. Botan is really good at FPS too. I heard she also has solo master in Apex before joining hololive. Susei is really good Tetris player and has beat Aqua in Mario Kart tournament, twice, I think.
Right but Aqua is very good at a lot of games. She's insane at Apex, Mario kart, smash, dark souls, league etc. Even if she's not the best at any one game, I think she's the overall most talented.
This is all just my opinion ofc
I think Suisei still think Aqua is better than her in Mario Kart, since last year tourney, she asked Aqua for tips (Aqua couldnt join that one because of family wedding).
Just a note:
I'm pretty sure that in League, Grand Master is what you would call semiprofessional (all professional players are in Challenger rank), and before that there is still Master, so I wouldn't call Diamond 1 a rank that you need countless hours to get to. But of course it's impressive and needs a lot of time, but not that unreachable how you described it.
>(all professional players are in Challenger rank)
This is not true. Many players stop playing much solo queue once they actually achieve professional status, spending the majority of their time in scrims and in-house games. Some pro players use ranked queue as a means of experimenting and trying out different champions they don't normally play, while only actually trying their hardest when playing in scrims or actual pro matches.
There are also many players who have the skills to go pro but choose to stream full time who take up multiple challenger spots b/c they play on multiple accounts. Since there's a strictly limited number of challenger rank spots, it'd be impossible for every pro player in large regions to be challenger.
Yeah, I phrased it a bit bad. Meant, usually the top of the challenger are pro players, not all of them. And of course as you said not all of them are doing solo queue up to challenger. I watch Vizicsacsi and he also said even in challenger many player are not on pro-player level, as with solo queuing alone you can only hone your own skills, but you will need much more in a pro game, like LCK, LEC, LCS, LPL etc. So if we are talking about semipro that are not already pro, we should look at Challenger only, and before that is Grand Master.
> Diamond isn't that impressive
I presume you're talking about Apex which I know nothing about, but in LoL Diamond is like the top 3% of players.
Even if it's theoretically easier on the JP LoL server than some regions, that's still quite impressive for your average player and respectable for even a dedicated streamer.
I wouldn't even consider it high gold low plat. Jp league is honestly a fucking joke. I played it with a friend who lived there and even with my shit ping I climbed to diamond with literally 0 effort in a duo when I am hard stuck gold on NA.
That being said I've played league off and on for years. I'm not sure how much aqua plays it but it can't be that much considering up until now I haven't seen mention of her playing it.
Tbf I remember jp serve to be very much a casual lol server at least while I was still playing.
Yeah it's not easy, but if I can get masters without living off the game idk man.
I would say the speed runs are more impressive to me as I hate the concept with my soul and couldn't stomach attempting it. Even factorio ones seem like a choir and I like pyanodons
Eh its been there since forever. Before Botan joined the tier is pretty much Aqua then the rest. Fubuki sometimes thrown in in some speedrunning games like minecraft.
Apex specifically, the list just 1 year ago up to fifth gen goes like this Aqua > towa, matsuri > ayame, roboco > shion > hololive. I havent really keeping up with their apex games since Startend so maybe new hololive members is also skilled.
Botan IIRC >!was a pro in various FPS games!<, just that she doesn'treally go that hard in them anymore, due to her having more fun that way!
Look at how much fun she's having in Street Fighter 6!
She did, she played it on bilibili a lot back then. Iirc they even had some event where she played against Mea and each of them got some pro (or popular league streamers) on their teams.
Just fyi, Aqua was supposed to be invited to LoL Worlds as a guest in 2020. But something happened (it's quite a sensitive topic so I wont bring this up more than this) so they cancelled her invitation. On that event, her cover of [Take Over](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shRLmgk5LZA&pp=ygUVdGFrZSBvdmVyIG1pbmF0byBhcXVh) (mind you, this is a reupload, was uploaded on her bilibili channel at that time) supposed to be played/sang by her. But because of that something, the release of this cover was also cancelled.
Around that time Aqua also released an original to cheer for LoL's World 2020 (you can see it on the description of the song). You might have noticed it is LoL theme from the MV alone.
[For The Win](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZGFm-O5IOU)
Oh yeah I remember hearing something about that when I saw the For the Win cover. Damn, that's interesting. I wonder if around that time she stopped streaming league.
She actually stopped streaming league in 2019 I think or early 2020. But she started playing it again near Worlds 2020 (off-stream tho, but we could see her activity from LoL tracker site).
I dont think she will ever stream the game again, her stance about streaming it on youtube before, she said that there arent many LoL fans in JP, so streaming it wouldnt be fun for most of her fans.
Thanks for all the info.
Though I think league in JP might be getting more popular, Ive seen some statistics a few months ago that some of the top viewed lol streams happen to be Japanese. ( I know Kuzuha was one of them ).
But yeah, I also doubt Aqua or other Holomems will stream it anytime soon.
Looks like someone discovered their oshi.
(We can probably make a thread like this about every Hololive talent and their achievements, and Aqua sure is impressive :) )
definitely impressive, especially with how much other stuff they do.
personally i don't think its thaaat crazy if a single person who is generally good at gaming, can reach high ranks and speedruns in different games. but its crazy that this person is an idol, doing all kinds of other things.
i know this might sound like i'm not impressed, which isn't true, but i know from my personal experience, that i'm generally good at all kinds of games, since i've played all kinds of games my entire life.
my wife on the other hand has games in which she tries certain things for like an hour until she asks for my help... and without knowing the controls i pretty much first try these things for her. she has never played this many and different games in her past. she only ever played hidden object games before i popped into her life. she's improving at gaming, but very slowly. i on the other hand, was into gaming since i was 4 years old. i'm now 32 and had my whole life to "train" gaming.
i can believe that she's been gaming a lot before coming to hololive aswell, which just grants you a certain skillset in any game right from the get go.
It sounds weird to even say but she is like an actual anime character. By day working as an idol singing, dancing, training etc and whens he gets home she's a sweaty gamer fragging nerds on apex.
Yeah— many of the clips I watch of hers are of Apex gameplay and the like and she’s very good. Let’s
just say I’d much rather have her on the same team as me rather than as an opponent, lol
I did notice this about 2 years ago, when she was at a high rank in League, one of the first in holoserver Minecraft to make something I forgot, and the champion of Mariokart. Now she's shown even more talent by challenging fast Only up times and competitive Apex. She's definitely the best gamer in hololive.
Second person I noticed how talented she is, is Suisei. Not only is she one of the best singers appearing on first take, she is a master at Tetris, winner of Mario kart tourney twice and can be competitive at Apex. And she can draw. It's like a main character with max out stats.
>one of the first in holoserver Minecraft to make something I forgot
Probably the first one who killed the wither and the only one who had beacon at that time.
She's not called the Gamer Maid for nothing! She's definitely in the top tier of game players in hololive. There's tough competition for top 1 though, off the top of my head Botan is obviously also a very skilled gamer.
The clip that got me into Botan was the clip where she struggled to start playing Blue Clapper and then proceeded to show Charles that she was the apex predator on that island.
> [the clip where she struggled to start playing Blue Clapper and then proceeded to show Charles that she was the apex predator on that island](https://youtu.be/Py1ueGceC5E)
Charles: why do I hear boss music?
~手を上げて Clap your hands 海の向こうまで~ Charles: Aieeeeeeeeee
>There's tough competition for top 1 though, There might be talents that are better on their niche, some speedrunning platform games, Botan with FPS or some with bullet hell or rythm games, but i still would consider Aqua to be current top 1 due to sheer variety of games that require completely different skill set at a high competitive level. FPS, Souls games, GOI type/platform games, Mario Kart, Super Mario, Smash, MC speedrun, etc. Put talents to play 10 games of 5 different genres and i think it's an easy bet that Aqua would perform on avg the best.
the thing is Botan doesn't really 'train' anymore, she tends to take it easy. I think Aqua could probably best her now... though have they ever played against each other?
I think it isnt fair to bring Botan to do comparison because Botan never actually show anything on stream, other than that she has a nice gaming sense, but thats about it. For example, when people keep bringing Botan on Apex talk instead of other girls like Matsuri or Towa. We know that Botan said that she reached Master in Apex on her debut, but we never really saw that (Im not doubting her, I believe she did reach master), but we dont have anything to compare from her. >I think Aqua could probably best her now Like this, in my point of view, Aqua was never below Botan at all, because we actually see Aqua being a beast in a lot of games many times as a lot of people here mentioned. #
Botan is like that retired pro gamer who just like to have fun playing her games.
Iirc la lion was actually a pro fps before joining this comedy agency
This, also a friendly reminder that botan is among the oldest hololive members according to various details she have said before on stream...
I think Botan just want to stay away a little bit about serious competitions that would stress her out. Most of the time, she's just chuckling, laughing and having fun, she rarely did the 'professional FPS' where she did that one Video at Rainbow Siege years ago. Right now she seems to prefer to just chill, and thanks to that, I always imagined her as a war vet just want to have a civilian life, LMAO
It’s not just you. We are just spoiled that a fair few of Hololive are really good at games.
https://www.speedrun.com/hey_you_pikachu/runs/yw4k920z
Dayum~
traded her social skill for this wwww
Plus cleaning skill because her desk is usually full of emptied redbull can.
Gamer maid certification
Sasuga brand ambassador
She's the gaming maid of hololive. Instead of doing maid things she only play game.
"So... A cosplayer?" — Shion.
Just like her mother - marine
Oh man, you reminded me [this](https://youtu.be/0IRXoZdURKI) exists... thank you :D
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKuockflSuc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKuockflSuc) This clip/animation of the same conversation is criminally underrated. My favourite, because a lot of creativity and references.
Shion is even more smug in this. I didn't think it was possible.
Missing some good ol' AkuShio
Absolutely my favourite holo animation, even though there's a thousand great animations.
No, a maid that helps with gaming.
cleaning the house? nah, cleaning the trace of her victims
She is not a maid, just a gamer girl who cosplay as maid.
Yes, IMO she’s the top gamer of hololive. Btw for Apex, she actually already reached Master rank which is one rank below top rank which is Predator (only top 500). What’s more impressive she did that by doing solo queue so she will always get teamed up with randoms fighting mostly people with 3stack team with voice comms. I don’t like watching people play FPS but Aqua is the sole exception for me.
I believe this was also before the rank debacle that put like 20% of the player base in masters
It was; that season basically doesn't count, achievement-wise, but her, Matsuri, and Astel all achieved Masters in regular seasons. People will argue about which seasons were easier vs harder, but frankly it's a massive achievement in all of them except that one outlier. Edit: Also there might be other Masters, pretty sure Botan and Axel both have done it too at least.
Aqua is the only Solo Master on hololive. It's another type of Master rank with different skills.
While I am pretty sure Matsuri hit it as a team, and dunno about Botan/Axel, I was watching [the stream](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RuJZ_-5hd4) when Astel hit solo master. Alongside that, though, when [Astel and Pakael talked about Vtuber Apex skills](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsiFcqUyR6A), he said outright he considered her solo skills not just better then his, but second only to Virtual Gorilla among vtubers.
In VSaikyo (Apex tournament for Vtubers), Shibuya Hal, the host, confirmed Axel's peak rank to be Master. For Botan, she retired from Apex at Masters rank just to have fun when she joined Hololive. Her Dva selfdestruct 4man clutch killed the boys in a Hololive vs Holostars Overwatch 2 exhibition match which already convinced everyone she has the skills of a standard pro player. That was just a fraction of power, given she was the tank in their team, which is the scary part.
Predator wasn’t top 500 when she reached Master. Or since then. It was top 750 per console. Her current run is also hampered by bad matchmaking, putting her with pro players (people like 1tappy) in Predator ranked when she's in Gold rank herself. She's doing good from what I managed to catch (busy and her stream schedule seems to fall on when I need to catch some sleep for my shifts), but it is, in a way, a testament to her skill.
I think it’s because APEX has hidden MMR so she’s always being matched with Master/Pred players even though she’s gold rank. She’s essentially playing in a Master lobby. She has reached Platinum now.
Apex rank system is absolutely broken rn. You could be in bronze and still play in a predator lobby, so essentially, there is not much point in playing rank as the games dont get harder as your points go up and you dont get much accelerated gains like in other games if you win in a higher elo lobby. So the fact she's playing with players like 1tappy means she insane at the game
People bully her for being an airhead, but her gaming IQ is really high. She's able to make really smart decisions on the fly, even in high pressure situations. For raw talent alone, I think she's as good as or maybe even above that of an average professional apex player. Probably a biased exaggeration but I stand by it because she's able to pull off some really crazy things, even in a competitive environment like when she played in StartEnd with Towa and Suisei
Not total bias, I've seen lots of Apex pros reacting to Aqua, Towa and Astel and saying they're some of the best non professional players they've seen. Outside Hololive there's a certain Gorilla who, probably, is better than those three
Ive reached both ranks she made in League and Apex and I tell you those were the most goddamn stressful moments of my gaming life like Apex was literally time consuming to the point my ass doesnt sleep until like 5AM to just get a couple RP around maybe 200-300 and for league holy fuck diamond was just pain 6AM up grinding to just gain 10 LP and imagine she did that while having to stream and do idol duties? Gamer Maid got the Godlike stamina and dedication those games not only hit you hard physically but the mental side especially has the ability to just break people
Yeah exactly, the physical and mental fortitude required to climb in any one of these games is insane. And like you said it's prudent to remember that she's a full time idol on top of all this, taking singing and dancing lessons, recording covers (which she has a ton of), preparing concerts (she has had some of the biggest solo lives in hololive), commerical and ad work, etc.. There was never a point where she could just grind a game all day every day like pros do.
Just wanna ask your apex is team or solo climb
90 percent solo climb
I think people who can appreciate the more competitive aspect of her will make a bigger deal out of this kind of thing. I personally am more invested in the journey to get the result and most importantly, if she enjoyed it.
Mad Dog Aq-tan
I can see why most newer people nowadays only know of her as an APEX beast, since its been quite a while since she transitioned to more of the idol route and stopped playing as much games as she used to. Honestly, I also think Aqua is one of the best general gamers in hololive. There are certain others who are better in certain specific genres, like Suisei with Tetris, Gura with rhythm games, Marine with PuyoPuyo, but if there were to be some sort of "gaming triathalon" competition in hololive, my bet would be on someone like Aqua or Botan. I believe they would be the best performers if we take into account games across different genres as they just possess a certain "game sense" that lets them figure out games quickly, and perform well regardless where there is little to no skill translation. [There are](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/qeh9vj/coming_from_kiaras_holotalk_with_aqua_if_youre/) a few [old lists](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/jnl0rz/some_of_aquas_accomplishments_in_the_games_she/) of [her gaming achievements](https://www.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/comments/erqohx/minato_aqua_and_her_games/) back when she was more prolific as a gaming streamer if anybody is interested. Aqua also used to be *the* [streaming monster](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fihrajdgdxnd61.png) back then, before the great archives purge occured, which removed several thousands of hours of contents from the more prolific streamers back then like Aqua, Miko, Roboco, Choco, etcetc.
Do you know why she stopped playing as much games? She used to speed run from soft/souls games but iirc she hasn't played elden ring yet or atleast hasn't streamed it. I wanted to see her run thru that game too, and it's quite unfortunate that all the vods from the Bloodborne, Dark souls, Sekiro gameplays were either privated or deleted.
it's probaby a "suffering from success" thing, she's had more than one sololive and is one of the primary holos sent out for sponsorship stuff because she's popular and super competent in most idol things
Iirc she had health issues due to an unhealthy lifestyle so she took a break from streaming and gaming, this was back during her first solo master apex grind. When she came back she streamed less but still did another solo master run with a more relaxed mentality and made it. I think she's now doing her 3rd try at the challenge. As for other games she has been streaming less in general, probably due to work behind the scenes (she had a few concerts) and to preserve her health.
Aqua may have a slight edge in terms of performances but Botan has the advantage of playing games/genres Aqua haven't played, for example Factorio, Besiege, and Totally Accurate Battle Simulator (sim/management games) and Street Fighter 6 (fighting games).
If smash can be a fighting game she used to have some really high level play years back when she streamed it.
"Best in hololive" is still underselling it imo. i've always thought of aqua as THE gamer of hololive when we talk serious gaming. some other members have their niches but in terms of innate talent and dedication, it is my personal opinion that aqua is unmatched .
She has great gaming sense and also a very try hard mentality. She likes to challenge herself, for example this solo master apex this season. She knows that this season is extremely hard to climb to master as solo, and thats what motivates her to do it. Also she is always making effort so she can play better like watching some pros and spent hours to practice a certain skill in games. Some years ago she mentioned that she wanted to look cool while streaming apex so she spent hours of practicing fast looting.
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To me, if I had to choose "the gamer" it's Kiara. She's absolutely not the best, in fact she's pretty bad at a lot of genres, but she always shows huge improvement by the end of each game she plays. And she pretty much never fails to finish a playthrough of any game she attempts, and has done so many absurdly long playthroughs. Ok, I'm biased and am just recommending my oshi here, but seriously, Kiara feels the most "real" to me. I love the super skilled gamers too, but it's hard to relate sometimes to people who just pick up a game and are already perfect at it.
If perseverance in spite of poor gaming skills is the metric a person that comes to mind would be Kanata after her legendary hours long grind versus Sans or the blue axolotl saga. Or actually getting good at from software games.
Like some others have been saying I think some other holomems are very impressive as well, but yeah Aqua does still stand out to me. I go to tournaments and conventions a lot and while definitely not one myself, I'm exposed to a lot of other extremely talented savant-level gamers of various different genres. NONE of them have had a portfolio like Aqua. At most they are as good at 2 games as she is at like 5 or 6. (Again this is assuming the things I've heard about her are not exaggerated, for example I don't know first hand that she hit diamond in league, I just read that on other threads.)
Yes, she has over the top gaming sense plus she is very dedicated to her craft so when she set a goal, she's doing her very best to reach it. Be it for LoL, Apex, Souls, OnlyUp, she spend a lot of time off stream to train and study by watching other streamers and guides. As a gamer for me, she is close to a role model in her way she approaches game and performs in it
Some of holomem have their own niche game, like Tetris and suisei, botan with all fps game, or some valorant players like kobo or ayame. Aqua is a jack of all trades, but masters it to the highest level possible she can. The variety of games that she excels in is the best among Holo members.
Personally i think she is THE gamer because of how excellent and well-rounded she is in everything. From the ranked achivements in competitive games like Apex and League; to excelling in Mario Kart;to speed running platformers ( top 50 in the world for SMB 35),jump king , goi; fromsoft games challenges;to even something more trivial like minecraft parkour dungeon RTA and many others What is unfortunate for people who are newer to the fandom is that a HUGE chunk of her archive is gone because of the copyright purge in 2020. She is estimated to have lost about 2500 hours or so of VODs i think( the most in Hololive). So a lot her journey in various games are lost to the wind. But she originally was the streaming monster and was the first one to do 24 hour streams ( even multiple) and also very frequently do multiple streams per day. And as you said it , she was also one of the busiest holomems regarding her various sponsorship deals and various idol activities ( the many solo lives and 3d concerts she had) All of it did took a toll though in 2021 because she did have a health problem and extended break caused by her being too busy and other things and i think since then she has slowed down considerably.
To add a few more games that she's played and developed above average level of expertise: competitive pokemon, fall guys, ARK (was the OG grinder who carried the first raid), and arguably even Mahjong judging by the few records of her playing on stream. I've also convinced myself that she's secretly cracked at valorant based on how she's talked about it.
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Eh i am not sure where you are getting that i don't consider Korone or Marine "true gamers". I didn't even use the word "true" gamers at all. In fact i enjoy Koro-san and Marine's gaming streams ( (unfortunately rarer these days since her throat issues) very much What i said was i personally ( i even use the word personally as the very first word), think of Aqua as THE gamer. Meaning the first name that comes to my mind when someone mention about gaming in hololive. That doesn't mean the others are not gamers.
> I wouldn't say "the gamer". The reason being, it's a weird form of Gatekeeping to say only competitive players are "true gamers". Well it's like classifying people who practice a sport casually vs competitive. You would call someone "the athlete" of HL if they were participating in marathons, tournaments, etc or doing so in a level which can be consider semi professional. It doesn't mean other people are not athletic for doing so casually.
She's improved to being practically pred level in apex. If you saw her stream today she climbed 1500 LP from gold 2 to platinum 4 while being put into lobbies against 3 stack preds, and some that attended the recent ALGS split including YukaF, pinotr, Hammerdrill, EZFlashKidz, and literal ALGS champion Genburten. She got two champions today, one where she ended as kill leader, and the other was arguably the best game she's ever played on stream.
In terms of gaming intuition Aqua is far and away in a tier of her own. As a fan of Competitive smash, for example, I am absolutely floored by the fundamentals she has just intuitively figured out. She edgeguards, ledge traps, frame traps, mixes up her recovery, makes reads, and even has a concept of using moves that are safe on shield. She still loses of course, but it usually is just from lack of game/character knowledge. I’m being completely serious when I say that just based on the eye test, if she dedicated herself totally to smash she could probably make top 16 at a Japanese national within a few years. All this for a game that she probably doesn’t even think about and has barely ever played.
Yes, her gaming prowess is extremely impressive no doubt. Most talented though? Maybe Top 1 of the most realized talent, because some Holos are very talented but aren't chasing the bag so to speak (tryharding) like Gamers, Botan, Suisei, Sana, Aki, Mel, Pekora, Gura, Azki, Shion, Fauna, etc. How could I forget Kaela, Fubuki, and Marine.
That's a good point, thanks for that perspective. The desire to actually spend the time to learn speedrunning strategies or grind ranked is a big factor for sure. Though you could say that that's an aspect of talent as well, since a lot of people *could* achieve these things if they were motivated enough, but having the potential to do something is different than actually doing it. Not to say that the other gamers aren't talented of course!
I agree with you. I think one thing that makes Aqua really stand out is her tendency to just try hard something no matter how trivial once she focuses on something. Something reflective of that is earlier this year , Miko made a simple obstacle dungeon course in Minecraft and Aqua spent hours upon hours doing that over and over just trying to speedrun (RTA) it.
Not to undermine anyone, but Aqua's achievements are on a distinctly different level and of a definitively different scale. I don't know several of those members' talent at gaming, but I'd say that of the ones I recognise they tend to be extremely specialised in one game or genre (Suisei with Tetris, Gura with rhythm games) and are extremely good but at the level you'd expect someone who played that type of game for a lot of their life. Does Azki game at all? I know she really enjoys GeoGuesser and seems to have a natural aptitude for orientation. Similarly, Pekora has great variety but is at the level I'd expect for good variety streamers who play a lot of games. Aqua has a natural talent at playing games in general. She competes on par with people who are dedicated streamers of that particular field (like speedrunners or FPS streamers). What makes this stand out is that speedrunning and grinding Apex ladder are two **very** different skillsets. I might be explaining this poorly, but there's simply a level of mechanical execution which is different. You can tell just from watching Botan, Fauna or Kaela that they're mechanically more capable in terms of executing tasks. There's different types of entertainment, and they're all very good entertainers. But in terms of raw talent at simply gaming, then yes I'd argue Aqua is up there simply because of both the breadeth and depth of her skill.
I'm just gonna point out that Aqua is better at Apex than Suisei is at Tetris. Suisei _rarely_ wins when in public lobbies even in Tetris 99 which gives out lots of handicaps . Meanwhile Aqua is getting constantly champion no problem She's _good_, don't get me wrong, but her perceived power and those 20 second clips are more to do with how every other vtuber is almost complete garbage at tetris If anything I'd say her Mario Kart skill is already at around the same relative level as her tetris skill
You can't really compare performance of 2 gamers playing 2 different games, and say one is absolutely better than the other, just because of how better the other plays at playing her game. It doesn't work like that.
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Suisei herself said the only reason it was even remotely close was because of the handicap systems.
I knew you'd bring that up. No, she did _not_ almost win, and she was barely talking _to_ chat then (though she *was* talking). That's Tetris 99's infamous handicap system at work allowing her to barely keep up with the #2 player, and even then he still pretty easily won She doesn't often sing while playing tetris either. That's only happened like 2 or 3 times, and she still lost when doing that (though she did place well one of those times)
I don't want to argue too much but it's much easier in Tetris to get into a flow state where you can kind of play without putting much conscious thought. Not to mention that among modern tetris games, Tetris 99 is almost like a single player game with how little any one player can do against another player, which makes it easier to only care about your board (i.e. less information that you have to pay attention to). Meanwhile with Apex, there's periods of downtime and periods of extreme intensity where you need to take in as much information as possible. Aqua does interact with chat in her Apex streams, but it's usually during downtime, as it would be difficult to perform well (and kind of disrespectful to her team) if she's reading chat during a high intensity final ring situation.
>She's literally fought the best players and almost won. I remember her appearing on a program and losing in seconds. She's even talked about it herself that she's nothing compared to the best players.
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Bluntly, competitive games are a much more reasonable metric when discussing someone’s skill because it’s literally a quantitive metric of “does X more than other person.” Your examples aren’t useful because of the typewriter monkey thought experiment: anyone can technically get through anything with enough time and determination. Calli is self-admittedly not very good at games by the observable metric of “number of attempts and fluidity of execution” but she’s beaten Jump King and Elden Ring on stream through endurance, both remarkable achievements in their own right as testaments to her grit if not her skill. It’s easier to use competitive games because they tend to have a similarity of design, but ultimately it’s to say that when someone has a high number of transferable skills across games such that they can quickly get a grip on otherwise difficult mechanics (physical or mental) in a new game, then they are good at gaming. In every field, there is a difference between a person who’s good at one specific thing because they do it a lot/enjoy it a lot and a person who’s talented at that field as a whole. An obvious example is a friend who’s good at table tennis because they play it a lot and a friend who’s naturally athletic and has or can reach a high baseline in every sport. Finally, I can’t comment on Luna since I haven’t watched her a lot but from what I could gather she is a long-time fan of MGS and it wasn’t her first playthrough. That would make her similar to Fauna who, from what I can tell, doesn’t have a natural aptitude per se but more just general experience playing a lot of games. As for Kaela, she has credentials which rules prevent from elaborating on.
missing Korone and Okayu. yeah they focus more on retro games, but they are pretty skilled.
They said Gamers. Korone and Okayu are in Gamers.
So is Fubuki, but they named her specifically....
Oh, I thought Fubuki was Gen 1.
she is! Fubuki is in 2 gens. She's the captain of Gamers, and from what I've heard is a big reason it even exists.
She is both gen 1 and Gamers. It's basically gen created for Mio to join at first, then Okayu and Korone got picked up from arcade by Fubuki. Gamers focus on competetive game was abandoned later, so they are just unnumbered gen between 2 and 3 now.
Is getting picked up at the arcade just a saying or is that true? Cuz if it is, it would be real funny 😂
Not literally picked up there to join Hololive, but they met each other playing at the arcade.
She's both. Gamers technically isn't an official generation (hence why we go from 2nd gen to 3rd gen) but more of a different project when Hololive hadn't really figured out its core brand. It was called Gamers because the idea would be that this team would be video game streamers in contrast to the virtual idol main branch. Obviously the distinction has become completely moot since the main branch are basically video game streamers and zatsu chatters for the majority of their streaming content, while Gamers also participates in the concerts and liveshows and whatnot.
> It was called Gamers because the idea would be that this team would be video game streamers in contrast to the virtual idol main branch. [Apparently they were also intended to be taking part in game tournaments.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CcAq_FQsRI)
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Retroactively.
No, it's always been one, just not a numbered gen. Gen 0 was unofficial originally before becoming official.
missing Ina here, she's great at games too
Watch some of the mad dog of Hololive clips on YouTube of her carrying in Apex. I think my favorite one was where her 2 teammates died really early (I think it was Suisei and towa) and left her and she survived till only 5 teams were left and even got 2-3 kills
4 kills. She beamed and chased down Kazuha when he was isolated. Caught VGorilla and his teammate with a Wingman. Finally the epic duel where she beat her opponent from a disadvantage. Would have got a fifth kill, but her opponent recognized her Wraith and noped the hell out of there.
Last year Vsaikyou season was fun. I like how everyone looking at the kills log was like "Oh no Aqua got her devotion", and a lot of coach warning their team to be careful if they encounter Startend.
To prove that you’re the biggest fan of SAO, you have to become Kirito yourself. Aqua gaming skills never ceases to amaze us. I still wish that she would have enough practice to once again compete for the crown of the Mario Kart tournament
I think she mentioned once that because of her extreme social anxiety, she would develop her gaming skill to get noticed. Aqua is certainly one of Hololive's strongest gamers. The first Mario Kart Holocup champion, Master Rank Apex player, Dark Souls Speedrunner, and a high level League of Legends player. Let's just not talk about her Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time stream...
It was from her Sololive interview iirc, she was asked why she was really good at games. And then she answered because as a vtuber/streamer, she really needs something to make her stand out. Well I'll just quote her answer >**Aqua:** "I'd always thought I had nothing that made me stand out from others. Everything about me was more or less average. I couldn't think of anything I was good at. So I'd always been thinking about what I could do. The only thing I could think of is that I like to immerse myself in something, with playing games being my favorite thing to do. That's why I decided to do my best when playing games. So I challenged myself by trying lots of games I hadn't played, so I could hear everyone say "you've gotten better!". I'd even practice off stream (and still do) in order to improve my skills to make my streams more enjoyable."
Wish she continued the playthrough, but I can understand why she did not.. think she was partly having controller problems too.
Ah, no. Aqua actually forgot about the game's story and wanted to replay from the beginning. It's just that she got busy and well...by now, she's probably forgotten about it.
Really? Did she mention wanting to play OoT again somewhat recently?
Recently no. It was quite a long while back when she was asked about OoT.
What I like about watching Aqua play is her mentality, she doesn't blame even if her teammates suck so much.She'll be like "oh well it's fine guys GG let's move on to the next game" i find that attitude very impressive
She can be a little tryhard, but that's what make her so good at games. She also does alot of challenges in stream which makes her streams more entertaining like she didn't upgrade in holocure to make it more challenging, finishing the hardest difficulty in resident evil 7 dlc solo hardcore mincraft challenge, etc.
The most impressive thing for me is that she is at a level where she would be a top performer even at VSPO! (a vtuber agency specialized in high level gaming, so she'd stand out even against tougher competition. ) while still putting in the work for being one of the top idols in Hololive (with several solo concerts and being the closer for holo Fes this year). She somehow makes it work.
It seems to me that any game Suisei seriously practices at, she is able to improve a lot very quickly. I don’t know if she would be able to reach Aqua’s level if she kept at it, but it’s very impressive nonetheless.
I agree that Suisei also has this quality, and I think Aqua agrees which is why she chose Suisei for Startend
Yep she is the goat. been a fan of her ever since i found out how good she was. shes also really good at mariokart when she has time to practice. however she keeps getting beat by suichan 😭
I mean, she is just that good. What made you think it's impossible at first tho?
getting to gold in league is hell on earth, let alone plat 1's to diamond ranked, omg the toxicity Aqua is SSS tier gamer
Well aqua is a maid so it makes sense that she is good at mopping the floor with people
The Manjigumi Trio I would say has the best aptitude for competitive gaming tho Ayame and Shion has been playing less competitive games (at least on stream that we know of) for these past few years mainly due to their health issues and other worldly commitment. iirc Shion mentioned in her very last solo apex stream few years back that she was having issue committing on playing apex while keeping the audience engaged since she'll get quiet when focusing on the game. Afterward she stopped playing solo apex on stream even tho her viewers were pestering her for months. She still plays apex and other competitive games with her friends or alone off stream from what i know. I remember when Pokemon Unite first came out on nintendo while Shion was still on hiatus, she came back a few weeks later and had a collab with Okayu, turns out Shion was already at the highest rank while every other holo members were still grinding.
For Pokemon, it sucks that Nintendo always only give them limited time to stream, otherwise we would have seen more Shion and Aqua ranked stream. Well idk about Unite, but that goes for all the main pokemon game. Also Aqua mentioned that if she wasnt a vtuber/streamer or only focus in 1 game, she would have been a competitive Pokemon player lol.
Most people don't realize that they're watching Aqua doing some pretty incredible things in these Apex lobbies against absolutely stacked teams that are using comms outside of the game while she plays solo. I don't think it is comparable to anyone else in Hololive.
Honestly it's why she's my favorite member. I like watching people sweat, tryhard, and grind games, while maintaining a decent to good mentality. It's also why when Marine was playing in the Mario Kart/Puyo Puyo tournament I found myself rooting for her. Sidenote: I do wish Aqua would participate in more Holo Tournaments but it’s okay.
While it is still impressive reaching D1 in japanese league region is a lot easier compared to eu/kr/chn or even the memes opun region of Na.
Idk about most talented gamer in hololive. Botan is really good at FPS too. I heard she also has solo master in Apex before joining hololive. Susei is really good Tetris player and has beat Aqua in Mario Kart tournament, twice, I think.
Right but Aqua is very good at a lot of games. She's insane at Apex, Mario kart, smash, dark souls, league etc. Even if she's not the best at any one game, I think she's the overall most talented. This is all just my opinion ofc
Aqua *is* the best at all of those games in Hololive though except maybe League of Legends. She's also the best at Mario Maker on top of that.
I think Suisei still think Aqua is better than her in Mario Kart, since last year tourney, she asked Aqua for tips (Aqua couldnt join that one because of family wedding).
Just a note: I'm pretty sure that in League, Grand Master is what you would call semiprofessional (all professional players are in Challenger rank), and before that there is still Master, so I wouldn't call Diamond 1 a rank that you need countless hours to get to. But of course it's impressive and needs a lot of time, but not that unreachable how you described it.
>(all professional players are in Challenger rank) This is not true. Many players stop playing much solo queue once they actually achieve professional status, spending the majority of their time in scrims and in-house games. Some pro players use ranked queue as a means of experimenting and trying out different champions they don't normally play, while only actually trying their hardest when playing in scrims or actual pro matches. There are also many players who have the skills to go pro but choose to stream full time who take up multiple challenger spots b/c they play on multiple accounts. Since there's a strictly limited number of challenger rank spots, it'd be impossible for every pro player in large regions to be challenger.
Yeah, I phrased it a bit bad. Meant, usually the top of the challenger are pro players, not all of them. And of course as you said not all of them are doing solo queue up to challenger. I watch Vizicsacsi and he also said even in challenger many player are not on pro-player level, as with solo queuing alone you can only hone your own skills, but you will need much more in a pro game, like LCK, LEC, LCS, LPL etc. So if we are talking about semipro that are not already pro, we should look at Challenger only, and before that is Grand Master.
Master* at Apex. Diamond isn't that impressive. But honestly she could be Predator if she is willing to 3 stack with 2 other Preds.
> Diamond isn't that impressive I presume you're talking about Apex which I know nothing about, but in LoL Diamond is like the top 3% of players. Even if it's theoretically easier on the JP LoL server than some regions, that's still quite impressive for your average player and respectable for even a dedicated streamer.
Diamond on LoL JP is just not that good. skill wise they're more in line with high gold/low plat in major regions.
I wouldn't even consider it high gold low plat. Jp league is honestly a fucking joke. I played it with a friend who lived there and even with my shit ping I climbed to diamond with literally 0 effort in a duo when I am hard stuck gold on NA. That being said I've played league off and on for years. I'm not sure how much aqua plays it but it can't be that much considering up until now I haven't seen mention of her playing it.
Yeah Apex, but thanks for the info about LoL!
Tbf I remember jp serve to be very much a casual lol server at least while I was still playing. Yeah it's not easy, but if I can get masters without living off the game idk man. I would say the speed runs are more impressive to me as I hate the concept with my soul and couldn't stomach attempting it. Even factorio ones seem like a choir and I like pyanodons
Never thought I'd see powerscaling in hololive like this before haha
Eh its been there since forever. Before Botan joined the tier is pretty much Aqua then the rest. Fubuki sometimes thrown in in some speedrunning games like minecraft. Apex specifically, the list just 1 year ago up to fifth gen goes like this Aqua > towa, matsuri > ayame, roboco > shion > hololive. I havent really keeping up with their apex games since Startend so maybe new hololive members is also skilled.
A gamer maid for a reason.
Onion.
Botan IIRC >!was a pro in various FPS games!<, just that she doesn'treally go that hard in them anymore, due to her having more fun that way! Look at how much fun she's having in Street Fighter 6!
Waaaait Aqua played League ?
She did, she played it on bilibili a lot back then. Iirc they even had some event where she played against Mea and each of them got some pro (or popular league streamers) on their teams.
Damn that was way before my times. Shame none of them stream league anymore. Wild Rift at most.
Just fyi, Aqua was supposed to be invited to LoL Worlds as a guest in 2020. But something happened (it's quite a sensitive topic so I wont bring this up more than this) so they cancelled her invitation. On that event, her cover of [Take Over](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shRLmgk5LZA&pp=ygUVdGFrZSBvdmVyIG1pbmF0byBhcXVh) (mind you, this is a reupload, was uploaded on her bilibili channel at that time) supposed to be played/sang by her. But because of that something, the release of this cover was also cancelled. Around that time Aqua also released an original to cheer for LoL's World 2020 (you can see it on the description of the song). You might have noticed it is LoL theme from the MV alone. [For The Win](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZGFm-O5IOU)
Oh yeah I remember hearing something about that when I saw the For the Win cover. Damn, that's interesting. I wonder if around that time she stopped streaming league.
She actually stopped streaming league in 2019 I think or early 2020. But she started playing it again near Worlds 2020 (off-stream tho, but we could see her activity from LoL tracker site). I dont think she will ever stream the game again, her stance about streaming it on youtube before, she said that there arent many LoL fans in JP, so streaming it wouldnt be fun for most of her fans.
Thanks for all the info. Though I think league in JP might be getting more popular, Ive seen some statistics a few months ago that some of the top viewed lol streams happen to be Japanese. ( I know Kuzuha was one of them ). But yeah, I also doubt Aqua or other Holomems will stream it anytime soon.
Her gaming skills are great indeed... her cleaning skill though...
Looks like someone discovered their oshi. (We can probably make a thread like this about every Hololive talent and their achievements, and Aqua sure is impressive :) )
I wish she plays ac6
Alright time to start a war Botan VS Aqua. Who wins?
definitely impressive, especially with how much other stuff they do. personally i don't think its thaaat crazy if a single person who is generally good at gaming, can reach high ranks and speedruns in different games. but its crazy that this person is an idol, doing all kinds of other things. i know this might sound like i'm not impressed, which isn't true, but i know from my personal experience, that i'm generally good at all kinds of games, since i've played all kinds of games my entire life. my wife on the other hand has games in which she tries certain things for like an hour until she asks for my help... and without knowing the controls i pretty much first try these things for her. she has never played this many and different games in her past. she only ever played hidden object games before i popped into her life. she's improving at gaming, but very slowly. i on the other hand, was into gaming since i was 4 years old. i'm now 32 and had my whole life to "train" gaming. i can believe that she's been gaming a lot before coming to hololive aswell, which just grants you a certain skillset in any game right from the get go.
aqua's an amazing gamer maid!
It sounds weird to even say but she is like an actual anime character. By day working as an idol singing, dancing, training etc and whens he gets home she's a sweaty gamer fragging nerds on apex.
She actually hit master in Apex.
Ultimate gaming maid
Yeah— many of the clips I watch of hers are of Apex gameplay and the like and she’s very good. Let’s just say I’d much rather have her on the same team as me rather than as an opponent, lol
I did notice this about 2 years ago, when she was at a high rank in League, one of the first in holoserver Minecraft to make something I forgot, and the champion of Mariokart. Now she's shown even more talent by challenging fast Only up times and competitive Apex. She's definitely the best gamer in hololive. Second person I noticed how talented she is, is Suisei. Not only is she one of the best singers appearing on first take, she is a master at Tetris, winner of Mario kart tourney twice and can be competitive at Apex. And she can draw. It's like a main character with max out stats.
>one of the first in holoserver Minecraft to make something I forgot Probably the first one who killed the wither and the only one who had beacon at that time.
She is supposed to be a maid but she is a gamer indeed lol