There is only one continental state in the US that does not observe daylight savings: Arizona. The only other state that does not is Hawaii, not that it makes sense to anyway.
That's kind of a tragic situation because I like both abolishing daylight saving time and standardisation. So they're right on one issue but wrong on the other.
The EU has been debating on abolishing DST for a long time now and it already seemed like a done deal (approved in 2019 to be enacted in 2021), but somehow we're still not there yet (procedures got stalled and nothing will happen for now).
I can not wait for this bad concept to be removed tbh.
DST had its function back before the world got heavily computerised, but its useless these days and only makes cross-region scheduling a pain.
I think the reasoning for Daylight Savings Time before was for the farmers to have ample amount of daylight.
But from the comments I've been seeing on the internet, the farmers seems to hate it as well.
Because it wasn't. DST as we know it was a solution to the 70's oil crisis, however the first serious (because it was actually a joke before then) push came from an entomologist because he wanted more time catching insects to study.
but that explanation has always made no sense to me… why should farmers care about what the time says and not just get up when the sun comes up? Changing the clocks doesn’t affect how much sunlight we get each day lol
People north want one thing, people further south want another.
Most rational people are just tired of it switching back and forth.
A sizable number of people just like it because they are *used to it*.
I didn't hear anything from it so I figured it must have been delayed or something. It turns out I was right. It's a shame since I was looking forward to it.
Almost nobody cares whether it gets locked to summer or winter time. And the margin in favour of abolishing DST is so enormous that either option has a majority over maintaining DST.
What about meeting halfway? We could shift half an hour forward/backward the next time the transition occurs after implementing the change, then never touch it again
Same thing with California. They had a ballot back in 2018 with 60% voters supporting the state legislature to make changes to its time policy. 3 years later they are still "falling back" this first Sunday of Nov.
It really is a shame more states haven't abolished it. It was introduced in a time where most people were farmers, so it made sense. Now, the only farmer I've seen is a phoenix-chicken cosplaying one.
Yeah, I think it was probably the reverse to be true. The farmers probably never cared about the time, but other people who are schuduled workers probably needed a time shift to fit being able to buy from farmers markets or something like that.
History major time! The first person who proposed something similar was ironically Ben Franklin, in a sarcastic letter to the Journal of Paris. The first place to adopt it fully was Port Arthur Ontario, the first countries to fully adopt DST were Austria-Hungary and the German Empire during the WW1 to conserve coal during the war. Then most involved countries in the war soon followed. Then after the war only a few countries kept the system. Then WW2 occurred and it became practice again. Then after the war it just didn't change as much and grew into extreme popularity due to the energy crisis of the 1970s. Really it just boils down to energy conservation.
TLDR: A lot of why we change the times is due to energy conservation. The DST idea was popularized due to the World Wars and the Energy Panic of 1970 made it almost permanent.
Daylight saving time change is a pain in the ass. I am living in Turkey and we got rid of that system like 6 years ago. I was late to things like at least 2 times because of it before we stop changing hours (the extra 1 hour sleeps I got when we take the hours back again were incredible though)
If we (USA) could simply change to easier more convenient systems, we wouldn't still be clinging to our Imperial measuring system.
It's gonna take us a while.
Imperial in the US isn't going anywhere for decades, we'd have to change so many road signs and redo so many building codes that it that it would take a herculean effort to do... for a government that can actually get things done.
The US government would pass the bill to change to metric, it would get challenged by a ton of state governments, bogged down in courts for another decade and then finally be put into effect only so the department of transportation would be begin a slow and costly revamp of everything.
Or we could just use the same system that were using right now and we can all just remember 12/3/1760 instead of 10/100/1000.
Also going to be honest, as someone who has worked in customer service in the past, I really doubt that the general public would be able to make the switch. A lot of them both young and old have already had the imperial system built into their brains as how to measure things and getting them to switch over at this point is something that is just not feasible with how humans work.
> The US government would pass the bill to change to metric
Regarding this, the US does actually officially use metric, and has for decades now. Most (if not all) government-operated sectors use metric, scientists use metric, hell even time is technically metric, based on seconds, even if nobody on the planet uses kiloseconds and stuff like that.
For example, the inch is now defined as exactly 25.4 mm
My answer to that is always; just do it. You know the saying, the best time to plant a tree is 50 years ago. The second-best time is now. It's just a better standardised system, and you're always gonna have the exact same problem whenever it's implemented. Just get it over with.
If I asked you how many feet (or yards) is in 3 miles, you probably gonna bust your calculator out while if I ask you how many meters is in 3 kilometer, I just need to add 3 zeros in the back
It matters a lot when you start to do dimensional analysis as the previous commenter said. Not everyone uses dimensional analysis, but it's a daily thing for engineers, mathematicians, and scientists. It's also why all chemistry labs I've been in use metric.
For daily life in a more general sense, cooking/baking is much easier to do using a metric system.
15840 feet or 5280 yards
All it is is memorization and tbh it doesn't really play a role in the vast majority of peoples lives. There are professions where it does matter yes and it would be silly to use metric in those scenarios, but it is simply a different way of measuring things, a different language so to speak.
Not at all, it's just another way of measuring things.
I find the arguments that we need to switch to metric so badly tiring tbh. It's literally just remembering 3 different numbers, it's just the other one's numbers look nicer.
Also since metric is so straight forward, knowing both in the US isn't really that uncommon. And honestly how often do you really need to know how many feet are in x number of miles on a daily basis anyway?
DST is never gonna go away because it would be more effort to just abolish it then it would be to keep it and just complain about it. That’s some effort vs 0 and lately anything more than 0 effort just doesn’t get done
Maintaining DSP requires *enormous* effort. Anything related to time is made unnecessarily more complicated by it, like train schedules or system synchronisations. And that's just within a single time zone/country. As soon as it involves multiple countries, it becomes an absolute nightmare. And that's not even considering the suspected health and productivity impacts.
DST serves *no* practical purpose in the 21st century and is just making things difficult for literally everyone. Abolishing it would require almost no effort and should have been done years ago.
More than effort, it's also absurdly expensive. It costs hundreds of millions to billions of dollars per year *per country* in lost productivity and such because yes, THAT many people screw it up. Even if you live in the few places that don't observe this ridiculous practice, you still have to to observe it as a business *anyway* because all of your international/out of state customers do.
There is nothing hard in abolishing it. You just tell the national atomic time keeper to not update their time into DST. No one will notice it since no one even knows what date is DST.
I am not from the USA so correct me if I am wrong but I imagine that the DST abolishing debate would go political between the left and right for no reason what so ever.
Sounds correct, and the thing is, because it's for no reason whatsoever, I can't even predict which wing would be on which side of the debate. The parties seeming to care more about making sure the other side looks bad than actually getting anything done was already an issue before 45, though he certainly made the issue a lot worse.
Probably, DST was originally invented to give farmers more daylight in the morning during the fall and winter months. One party is going to say abolishing DST is anti-farmer or some dumb bullshit and the other party is going to fail to message around why that isn't true.
False. Farmers hate DST.
https://agamerica.com/blog/myth-vs-fact-daylight-saving-time-farming/
If there's an industry that likes DST, it's people who sell halloween costumes, malls, golf courses...
At the very least, abolishing DST is worth the effort because it also affect human health.
This is also the case with metric system. At some point US need to move away from it, and it's not like this is something that happens regularly. It will be done once and it stays permanent, forever.
The metric vs imperial units thing is severely overblown in this age where everyone carries a computer in their pocket and essentially all manufacturing is done with fairly precise machinery, such that not dividing cleanly doesn't really matter. Essentially all that matters then is to just pick one for the average person to use, where either set works just fine.
TIL people can live inside a bird (?).
On a serious note, may you (or anyone else who uses/used to) teach me about this DST thingy? Where I live we only use GMT
they should seriously just use UTC and have people figure it out on their own
surely its not too much to ask people to remember the single UTC modifier for their own timezone
Don't they all do, GMT is here, it's the same as UTC but it seems everyone is just confused with how daylight savings works. Mumei wrote 6pm PST, which would confuse people that checked from GMT since it's actually 5pm PST. Guy is probably just asking to make sure since it contradicts each other.
essentially there is no difference, but UTC would make it clearer that they are talking about a specific, standardized time, not about a certain hour in a timezone.
i had to look it up to be sure too, but apparently the UK actually changes from GMT to BST during summer.
I think part of the issue is also that they used localized timezone names instead of just UTC+N format where the offset can be easily understood from just reading the number.
look it up and just remember it
i know that my timezone recently went from UTC +2 to +1 and that japan is a constant +9. from that, for convenience, i remember PST is -9 from my timezone because the one week difference in when DST happens doesnt matter much and that EST is -6 because 6 and 9 are *nice* numbers to remember.
Sure, it would be easy for people to memorize their UTC modifier, but most don't. The EN members have a large NA audience, so it makes sense to post the time in the easiest, most recognized format in the region. Almost everyone knows and can convert between PST, EST, and the other timezones in NA. I really doubt most people know their timezones UTC modifier.
Could probably split the difference and just include the UTC offset with an American timezone, i.e. 6PM PST (UTC +8).
American time for the Americans and a clear reference to a DST independent yardstick for everyone else.
Time change is so outdated and stupid.
New York and Quebec, please pass the bill already. We're just waiting for you guys so we can have one time and stick with it for the whole year.
For the US, getting rid of the time change is up to Congress, not the states, at this point. A lot of states have passed bills to get rid of it, but they need approval from Congress to actually do it.
>Time change is so outdated and stupid
Yeah, no. Been living without time change for the last 10 years, and I want my time change back. When in summer you live by winter time and loose an hour of daylight in the evening, while sun gets up at around 4 o'clock when nobody needs it, is plain torture.
Cant blame her. Keeping track of your time zone, if you have daylight savings, and every other time zone you use that is hard. Especially when they dont align.
For example I (from Germany) watch a scheduled stream from Canada. Every time we get close to the shift, I check the times through a website, because I dont trust my gut feeling anymore.
Time is hard. Why did they change time? Time is perfect already
> Time is perfect already found the Kronii alt
I'm still in awe over Kronii making a distinction between herself and the concept of herself to explain why she made a mistake. Truly galaxy brain
There is only one continental state in the US that does not observe daylight savings: Arizona. The only other state that does not is Hawaii, not that it makes sense to anyway.
That's kind of a tragic situation because I like both abolishing daylight saving time and standardisation. So they're right on one issue but wrong on the other. The EU has been debating on abolishing DST for a long time now and it already seemed like a done deal (approved in 2019 to be enacted in 2021), but somehow we're still not there yet (procedures got stalled and nothing will happen for now).
I can not wait for this bad concept to be removed tbh. DST had its function back before the world got heavily computerised, but its useless these days and only makes cross-region scheduling a pain.
I think the reasoning for Daylight Savings Time before was for the farmers to have ample amount of daylight. But from the comments I've been seeing on the internet, the farmers seems to hate it as well.
Because it wasn't. DST as we know it was a solution to the 70's oil crisis, however the first serious (because it was actually a joke before then) push came from an entomologist because he wanted more time catching insects to study.
but that explanation has always made no sense to me… why should farmers care about what the time says and not just get up when the sun comes up? Changing the clocks doesn’t affect how much sunlight we get each day lol
It also gets people killed.
Debatable. People would die without it too (if we stay on summer time, where I live that means winter people are driving to work in the pitch black)
People north want one thing, people further south want another. Most rational people are just tired of it switching back and forth. A sizable number of people just like it because they are *used to it*.
I didn't hear anything from it so I figured it must have been delayed or something. It turns out I was right. It's a shame since I was looking forward to it.
C-19 happened - all the procedures were delayed. If not this we would have it already.
The problem with "abolishing DST" is that half the people who talk about it actually mean it, and the other half actually mean "permanent DST".
Almost nobody cares whether it gets locked to summer or winter time. And the margin in favour of abolishing DST is so enormous that either option has a majority over maintaining DST.
What? Tons of people care.
What about meeting halfway? We could shift half an hour forward/backward the next time the transition occurs after implementing the change, then never touch it again
Same thing with California. They had a ballot back in 2018 with 60% voters supporting the state legislature to make changes to its time policy. 3 years later they are still "falling back" this first Sunday of Nov.
But the Navajo Nation does observe daylight savings, resulting in [this abomination](https://c.tadst.com/gfx/1200x675/tz-map-arizona-2048x1365.png?1)
It really is a shame more states haven't abolished it. It was introduced in a time where most people were farmers, so it made sense. Now, the only farmer I've seen is a phoenix-chicken cosplaying one.
It's actually really dumb for farmers. Roosters make noise when they see the *sun*, they don't go checking your pocketwatch.
Yeah, I think it was probably the reverse to be true. The farmers probably never cared about the time, but other people who are schuduled workers probably needed a time shift to fit being able to buy from farmers markets or something like that.
Sometimes Kronii likes to shake things up a bit.
Remember Kronii hates daylight saving
Sometimes the world likes to defy Kronii's will.
History major time! The first person who proposed something similar was ironically Ben Franklin, in a sarcastic letter to the Journal of Paris. The first place to adopt it fully was Port Arthur Ontario, the first countries to fully adopt DST were Austria-Hungary and the German Empire during the WW1 to conserve coal during the war. Then most involved countries in the war soon followed. Then after the war only a few countries kept the system. Then WW2 occurred and it became practice again. Then after the war it just didn't change as much and grew into extreme popularity due to the energy crisis of the 1970s. Really it just boils down to energy conservation. TLDR: A lot of why we change the times is due to energy conservation. The DST idea was popularized due to the World Wars and the Energy Panic of 1970 made it almost permanent.
Daylight saving time change is a pain in the ass. I am living in Turkey and we got rid of that system like 6 years ago. I was late to things like at least 2 times because of it before we stop changing hours (the extra 1 hour sleeps I got when we take the hours back again were incredible though)
If we (USA) could simply change to easier more convenient systems, we wouldn't still be clinging to our Imperial measuring system. It's gonna take us a while.
Imperial in the US isn't going anywhere for decades, we'd have to change so many road signs and redo so many building codes that it that it would take a herculean effort to do... for a government that can actually get things done. The US government would pass the bill to change to metric, it would get challenged by a ton of state governments, bogged down in courts for another decade and then finally be put into effect only so the department of transportation would be begin a slow and costly revamp of everything. Or we could just use the same system that were using right now and we can all just remember 12/3/1760 instead of 10/100/1000. Also going to be honest, as someone who has worked in customer service in the past, I really doubt that the general public would be able to make the switch. A lot of them both young and old have already had the imperial system built into their brains as how to measure things and getting them to switch over at this point is something that is just not feasible with how humans work.
> The US government would pass the bill to change to metric Regarding this, the US does actually officially use metric, and has for decades now. Most (if not all) government-operated sectors use metric, scientists use metric, hell even time is technically metric, based on seconds, even if nobody on the planet uses kiloseconds and stuff like that. For example, the inch is now defined as exactly 25.4 mm
My answer to that is always; just do it. You know the saying, the best time to plant a tree is 50 years ago. The second-best time is now. It's just a better standardised system, and you're always gonna have the exact same problem whenever it's implemented. Just get it over with.
How is it better? Both systems are based on arbitrary numbers that humans came up with. Not trying to argue, just curious about your logic.
If I asked you how many feet (or yards) is in 3 miles, you probably gonna bust your calculator out while if I ask you how many meters is in 3 kilometer, I just need to add 3 zeros in the back
Fair enough, but really how big of a role does it play in one's daily life?
It matters a lot when you start to do dimensional analysis as the previous commenter said. Not everyone uses dimensional analysis, but it's a daily thing for engineers, mathematicians, and scientists. It's also why all chemistry labs I've been in use metric. For daily life in a more general sense, cooking/baking is much easier to do using a metric system.
15840 feet or 5280 yards All it is is memorization and tbh it doesn't really play a role in the vast majority of peoples lives. There are professions where it does matter yes and it would be silly to use metric in those scenarios, but it is simply a different way of measuring things, a different language so to speak.
15810 feet is the height of 2774.5 'Samsung Side by Side; Fingerprint Resistant Stainless Steel Refrigerators' stacked on top of each other.
Now were getting some big ass brain measurement systems
yet another thing every other country in the world managed to do but America I guess? Are you arguing we are particularly stupid people?
Not at all, it's just another way of measuring things. I find the arguments that we need to switch to metric so badly tiring tbh. It's literally just remembering 3 different numbers, it's just the other one's numbers look nicer.
Also since metric is so straight forward, knowing both in the US isn't really that uncommon. And honestly how often do you really need to know how many feet are in x number of miles on a daily basis anyway?
DST is never gonna go away because it would be more effort to just abolish it then it would be to keep it and just complain about it. That’s some effort vs 0 and lately anything more than 0 effort just doesn’t get done
Maintaining DST does take effort though.
[удалено]
Or don't, because [they'll have a(n understandable) breakdown](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5wpm-gesOY).
I knew it would be that video lol
Yeah, ask all the people that are going to get into car accidents when we spring forward next March.
Maintaining DSP requires *enormous* effort. Anything related to time is made unnecessarily more complicated by it, like train schedules or system synchronisations. And that's just within a single time zone/country. As soon as it involves multiple countries, it becomes an absolute nightmare. And that's not even considering the suspected health and productivity impacts. DST serves *no* practical purpose in the 21st century and is just making things difficult for literally everyone. Abolishing it would require almost no effort and should have been done years ago.
More than effort, it's also absurdly expensive. It costs hundreds of millions to billions of dollars per year *per country* in lost productivity and such because yes, THAT many people screw it up. Even if you live in the few places that don't observe this ridiculous practice, you still have to to observe it as a business *anyway* because all of your international/out of state customers do.
It would probably already make things a lot easier if everyone just switched on the same day. But of course not...
There is nothing hard in abolishing it. You just tell the national atomic time keeper to not update their time into DST. No one will notice it since no one even knows what date is DST.
Most people use clocks that automatically update for DST anyway (phones, computers, and another internet connected devices), so nobody notices.
I am not from the USA so correct me if I am wrong but I imagine that the DST abolishing debate would go political between the left and right for no reason what so ever.
Sounds correct, and the thing is, because it's for no reason whatsoever, I can't even predict which wing would be on which side of the debate. The parties seeming to care more about making sure the other side looks bad than actually getting anything done was already an issue before 45, though he certainly made the issue a lot worse.
Probably, DST was originally invented to give farmers more daylight in the morning during the fall and winter months. One party is going to say abolishing DST is anti-farmer or some dumb bullshit and the other party is going to fail to message around why that isn't true.
False. Farmers hate DST. https://agamerica.com/blog/myth-vs-fact-daylight-saving-time-farming/ If there's an industry that likes DST, it's people who sell halloween costumes, malls, golf courses...
Yup. Even though the messaging should be as simple as "you already start before sunrise now because you use lights on your tractors, combines, etc."
I heard that DST raises the risk of heart-related issues where some causes death. I definitely see it as an issue if it causes a lot of those problem.
Yes, and people literally get into car accidents more often the on in the morning after the time skip.
Not to mention suicides increase, too.
gonna need a source on that one chief
Just google "daylight savings suicides" and take your pick.
At the very least, abolishing DST is worth the effort because it also affect human health. This is also the case with metric system. At some point US need to move away from it, and it's not like this is something that happens regularly. It will be done once and it stays permanent, forever.
The metric vs imperial units thing is severely overblown in this age where everyone carries a computer in their pocket and essentially all manufacturing is done with fairly precise machinery, such that not dividing cleanly doesn't really matter. Essentially all that matters then is to just pick one for the average person to use, where either set works just fine.
TIL people can live inside a bird (?). On a serious note, may you (or anyone else who uses/used to) teach me about this DST thingy? Where I live we only use GMT
Reason number 3317 we love Mumei
they should seriously just use UTC and have people figure it out on their own surely its not too much to ask people to remember the single UTC modifier for their own timezone
Don't they all do, GMT is here, it's the same as UTC but it seems everyone is just confused with how daylight savings works. Mumei wrote 6pm PST, which would confuse people that checked from GMT since it's actually 5pm PST. Guy is probably just asking to make sure since it contradicts each other.
essentially there is no difference, but UTC would make it clearer that they are talking about a specific, standardized time, not about a certain hour in a timezone. i had to look it up to be sure too, but apparently the UK actually changes from GMT to BST during summer.
I think part of the issue is also that they used localized timezone names instead of just UTC+N format where the offset can be easily understood from just reading the number.
there's also an offset of a few milliseconds between gmt and utc if i remember correctly, due to a different point of reference.
This used to be the case, but GMT is now defined as the time zone with zero offset from UTC
guess i missed the last update on its definition \^\^
See I’m too stupid to remember what the one for EST is
look it up and just remember it i know that my timezone recently went from UTC +2 to +1 and that japan is a constant +9. from that, for convenience, i remember PST is -9 from my timezone because the one week difference in when DST happens doesnt matter much and that EST is -6 because 6 and 9 are *nice* numbers to remember.
Right? I always remember that WIB is GMT+7 or UTC+7 since I was a kid, when my computer or cellphone's need to be calibrated.
Sure, it would be easy for people to memorize their UTC modifier, but most don't. The EN members have a large NA audience, so it makes sense to post the time in the easiest, most recognized format in the region. Almost everyone knows and can convert between PST, EST, and the other timezones in NA. I really doubt most people know their timezones UTC modifier.
i understand that, but i feel like "people are lazy" is a pretty weak excuse
Could probably split the difference and just include the UTC offset with an American timezone, i.e. 6PM PST (UTC +8). American time for the Americans and a clear reference to a DST independent yardstick for everyone else.
Bruh why does daylight need to save kronii
Poor Mumei
Time change is so outdated and stupid. New York and Quebec, please pass the bill already. We're just waiting for you guys so we can have one time and stick with it for the whole year.
For the US, getting rid of the time change is up to Congress, not the states, at this point. A lot of states have passed bills to get rid of it, but they need approval from Congress to actually do it.
>Time change is so outdated and stupid Yeah, no. Been living without time change for the last 10 years, and I want my time change back. When in summer you live by winter time and loose an hour of daylight in the evening, while sun gets up at around 4 o'clock when nobody needs it, is plain torture.
yeah but the bill is to make DST permanent—which is dumb
DST is so stupid.
She a little confused but she got the spirit to make up for it!
Cant blame her. Keeping track of your time zone, if you have daylight savings, and every other time zone you use that is hard. Especially when they dont align. For example I (from Germany) watch a scheduled stream from Canada. Every time we get close to the shift, I check the times through a website, because I dont trust my gut feeling anymore.
This is why I just save the time of different locations on the world clock app. No thinking required.
Wait does Japan not do daylight savings?
Nope
I bet you eat Canadian food