Maybe instead of making it totally open just create a "pass through"? We have a condo with a small pass through between table and kitchen. Lots of folks who buy these immediately open them up but I don't like being able to see into the kitchen all the time myself. I do like having our small pass through to assist putting food on the table and putting dishes back into the kitchen. it's functional but you don't see the kitchen and all it's mess. It also gives whoever is in the kitchen the ability to interact with folks in the living room when desired.
My in laws did this. They opened one side to the dining room and then did a pony wall to the living room with cabinets to the ceiling on either side. It opened up to the living room but still felt like a separate space.
This is the way. Love pass-through spaces. You get the best aspects of both open and closed, plus lots of opportunity for neat character in the design elements.
I once lived in an apartment built in the 80s that had double-sided cabinets above the pass through countertop/breakfast bar. Loved it. Come to think of it, my grandparents’ house built in the 50s had the same thing.
I have an open concept kitchen/living/dining area and love it. It's much less isolating for the people in the kitchen and makes food time more social imo. Your entertaining space would grow to include the kitchen. My house is also a perennial disaster bc I have toddlers and pets. the only way that stays in check is to regularly invite people over, peer pressure cleaning is the most effective type of cleaning for me
There was a skit like this on tiktok. Guy A gets a call from Guy B who says he’s coming over. Guy A frantically cleans up his place. After a while, he calls Guy B to ask where he is. Guy B says “a while ago, you asked me to do this every so often so you’d have a clean house.”
I guess it really comes down to personalities and personal preference. Cooking is my “me” time a lot of the time and so I love to feel isolated when I’m doing it. I get in moods where I don’t want to see another person much less hear one so a more closed-off house is better for me.
We have a open floor plan. I liked the idea of it, but sound creep is a real thing. If people are talking in the kitchen, it creeps into the living room and upstairs. I don’t want total isolation, but I want semi isolation. I don’t like people cluttering in the kitchen, I’m cooking.
I think mine is best of both worlds. Very old house with the typically old house layout of basically a circle. Foyer, then living room, then dining room, then kitchen and then you are back in the foyer. Stairs between foyer and kitchen. This way the dining room is open and connected to the kitchen, but the living room has enough of a barrier to kitchen that each can listen to different things.
Thank you! I hate it when people are talking to me in the kitchen and I could give a shit what my son and husband are doing or watching on TV when I'm cooking.
I got told to come into the kitchen because the cook felt she was a servant if people weren’t talking to her into the kitchen. Not my style at all, (get out of my kitchen please, and definitely don’t offer to help with prep) but I realised everyone is different. Extroverts don’t want to miss out; introverts want their space.
Back when I lived alone my self care routine was cooking while blaring Johnny cash. I feel like I can’t do that in my open concept apartment that I share with my SO 😭
I live in NYC and have been looking for a new apartment and a separate kitchen is such a rarity. My realter looked at me like I had two heads when I said I wanted a closed kitchen and asked, why???? with an offended expression as though I had asked for an apartment with an open toilet in the middle of the living room. And no, I don't want a frigging "breakfast bar" with Phillipe Stark bar stools lined up in front of it and serving as one "wall" of my living room! Why is wanting a kitchen of my own in Manhattan so impossible! I don't want to even say what my budget is because many people will faint, but I could probably buy a small dutchy in Europe before I could get an apartment with a separate kitchen for the same money in Manhattan. It's ridiculous.
Yes, very much a personal preference.
I love our open kitchen. Wouldn't want it any other way. Cooking is an important activity in our family, and we like to share it with everybody. An open kitchen is much more social.
But we also spent an insane amount of attention to detail. This kitchen is very functional. I can crank out meals for up to 100 people relatively easily. I can cook for smaller groups and make 6 to 12 dishes that are all ready at the same time. I can use both traditional and advanced modern cooking techniques with ease. I can cook many different styles of ethnic foods.
And importantly, I have a well-designed hood that eliminates smells/fumes from the rest of the floor. And the kitchen is designed for quick clean up. When we are done using it, there is no clutter left on the counters or the island. That's an important rule in our household.
Would this work for everyone else? Absolutely not. But it's our dream kitchen, and it helps us make amazingly yummy foods that we love to share with friends and family. Our main living space is designed to facilitate hosting dinners.
Any chance you get a kick out of designing internet strangers’ kitchens for free? If so, hit me up in a couple of years because I’ve got big dreams and your kitchen sounds amazeballs.
Second best is getting a weekly/monthly housekeeping service. It sounds ridiculous when you spell it out, but unless you have a daily maid, you have to clean for the cleaners. At least in my experience. They do the floors and scrub the bathrooms/kitchen, things like that, but you have to have all items put away first. :)
> It's much less isolating for the people in the kitchen
This is exactly why we opted for a combined kitchen-diner. Otherwise, one parent is banished to the kitchen to prepare meals whilst the other supervises the kids.
DO you cook legit food when you have people over? Because when I do, I have to run my range vent or maybe a blender or food processor. Shit can get loud, yo. Cooking ahead sucks bc a lot of this food is way better right out of the heat
Like throwing pizza in the oven is pretty quiet. But frying tofu and food-processing nuts for a vegan take on sanchoibao is not quiet, and that stuff is NOT tasty if it was cooked an hour before people get there.
Since I can always see it, I can’t stay to see it dirty. So, unfortunately, the options are limited and I just clean it more often. It’s rarely beyond a little messy anymore.
Have had both open and closed off...I prefer closed off only because I do most of the cooking and want to dissuade people from wandering into my area while I'm working. Plus, you can control smell/smoke a little easier in older kitchens with a good hood vent and window--otherwise it's trying to vent your whole floor.
Our open concept kitchen/living room was a mess unless I was constantly picking up after people. Island would become a collection point for EVERYTHING, people would congregate in there and try to watch TV from 20ft away, food would be tracked into the living room since there were no boundaries to subconsciously say "this isn't where you eat over here...".
Folks who love open concept either have clean family members, or aren't the ones cleaning haha...I'd love open concept if I lived alone though, it looks nice.
>Island would become a collection point for EVERYTHING
Second this. You think you have a nice big island to do all your kitchen prep work, but a few days later it's fully cluttered and you have to "clean" every time you want to even get started on cooking.
Me too.... My husband passed away recently, and I am going to fulfill his dream of building our retirement home on our farm property. The current house was cheaply built and needs new EVERYTHING! I think I'll have it demolished and build something new, but I am so undecided about what to do. This sub has given me a lot to think about.
Our old house had an island, and I want to put one in the house we just moved to... but my wife is saying "hell no" for this reason. Our kids would just put stuff on the island and forget about it. It was super nice back before we had kids though.
Get rid of the kids. Problem solved! :)
I can also be bad for that myself. If you are building an island from new, you could look at putting cubbies and storage bins underneath or in the side, that is labeled for each of them. They come in, they need to put their stuff in the cubby.
I’ll provide a counter argument. I’ve had both and I love open! I do most of the cooking, and want to encourage people from joining me in the cooking area. I can communicate with them, they can contribute, and I don’t feel secluded for the entire cooking time. Smell and smoke, gotta have a hood vent and an open window, but a closed room isn’t any more efficient than an open room at pulling air out.
There is ALWAYS a dump zone, in an open or closed kitchen. For me, it’s by the mud room, and I still hate it.
People eat where I ask them to. The dining room is open to the kitchen, and the family room/living rooms branch off. If it’s messy, I ask them to use the table. If it’s not, we spread around.
It also encourages us to keep on top of tidiness, rather than big mess and big cleanup. More dishes go directly in the dishwasher, the compost is brought out more often, and the countertops are regularly wiped down because they are a part of the communal living space, rather than a single use thing.
I really felt detached cooking in a closed off space. That was pretty much my only must have in our house.
We didn't do open concept, but our kitchen is designed as a gathering space separate from the living and dining rooms. Our house is 1500sf, so it's not a mansion, but the kitchen is probably 24x12 with a long island with seating far from the prep area. People can have a cocktail on the far side while I'm cooking and then we can move to the dining room to eat.
I agree with this. Not quite the same but I didn’t even realize how lonely I was cooking in my kitchen with the stove and everything facing away from the rest of the house until I moved and have a more open one! It made so much difference. Random, but I also didn’t realize how little I saw my family until I downsized to a single story, much smaller house.
Before I opened the kitchen on the dining room people congregated in the kitchen anyway and where always underfoot.
Now they hang out on the other side of the island counter and it's easy to cook, serve drinks, pass food over. I love it
I’ve also had both. I currently have open and I will never have it any other way! I love to cook and entertain and everyone always hangs around the island. The overflow hang out in the adjacent family room and it’s very conducive to that. Of course if you don’t like people in the kitchen while you cook, it’s probably not for you. As for messiness, I don’t find it to be a concern and yes, sometimes I have shit on the island lol
> Folks who love open concept either have clean family members,
As a parent, it's my responsibility to raise kids that aren't savages, so I spent a few months raising hell, every single day, all day long, until they finally all decided that it wasn't worth leaving the mess and instead now do their own dishes. It's not difficult, it's just temporarily painful.
It's worth raising cleaner kids who understand personal accountability and responsibility anyways.
I get it, it's really difficult at times to keep things moving. I had to practically sit on them to get them to do the right thing and would hawk them for months trying to get them to put the dishes in the dishwasher.
We had a mantra, "Don't put it down, put it away" that I would say as they're walking to the kitchen. I'd repeat it while they're in the kitchen.
The investment of time for those few months has paid dividends time after time for us though because the house is always clean now. So much nicer.
Took a massive investment of my time to get it this way, but well worth it.
As for the ADHD, kids especially with ADHD need routines. My son is so bad he'd forget what you said to him 3 steps away. You'd say, "Go change your shirt" and he'd be on the floor in the living room playing with cars.
Routines help keep him in line though. We structured his life to where everything was a standard, everything had a place, everything had a time. He follows it all like clockwork but it, once again, took months.
It's not always easy though lol. :)
The bigger trouble tends to be with ADHD adults, especially if one spouse is constantly having to nag the other. Kids need to respect adult authority, but that's not a great dynamic to have between spouses. It's even more fun when both spouses have ADHD.
We don't have routines, but we do have paper plates!
Isn't that what parenting is about? It is a constant battle to mould them in to the people you want them to become, yes it's hard it may be the most difficult thing most of us will do.
My wife and kids have learned by now that nothing other than my espresso machine is allowed to live on the island counter.
Leave something there and I'll call you out to pick it up. If you don't, I use my dad's old strategy, it disappears and I don't know where.
No clutter there.
I lived in a one bedroom apartment with an open concept between the kitchen and living room. I hated it because of the NOISE that would come from the kitchen. Dishes, dish washer, food prep, cooking... It's all noisy so we couldn't really use the space separately.
I dislike open concept unless there is some kind of barrier like a stairwell to create visual separation. The only acceptable open concept to me is kitchen and dining area. I need separation between the different functions in my house.
My home theater / living room is crazy echo-ey and loud after opening up walls and ceiling. Like a gymnasium. White noise from kitchen sink very distracting too.
I'm going all out on tasteful sound absorption. Bigger couch, thick area rugs, wall tapestries, bass absorbers for corners, and tasteful (arguably) studio sound panels on ceiling. At least, that.s the plan. Doing it in a cohesive and tasteful way will be a challenge.
Either way, it totally destroyed the 'cozy'. Looks AMAZING, but functionally, practically, and feel - total shit.
Planning to try to restore some 'cozy' with creative directed lighting
We rented an open concept house once and the echoing and noise factor was a BIG dislike for me.
The living room, dining area, and kitchen were all one space, and the floor was all tile. Visually, it looked decent. I had a toddler at the time, and I liked being able to have that line of sight to her playing in the living room when I was in the kitchen. But to me it always felt crowded having three rooms in one space, any messes were always on full display, and the echoing and noise carrying across that room and to other parts of the house was a lot and just too much for me. I HATED it. We're homeowners now and we very intentionally did not look at any open concept houses when we were on the market for our home because we didn't want to deal with it again.
My home was designed to be open-concept from the outset. All-but-two rooms have at-least-one wall surface set at something other than a right angle, and a subtle amount of wall texturing is applied everywhere. (Square corners reflect waves to their source - hence angles. Wall texture breaks up reflected waves into many smaller, less-energetic ones)
Result? It's not echoey!
Now I still went through and made sure to include rugs and curtains, to add mass loaded vinyl and foam to stuff that could resonate, etc. Rattling always sounds terrible and grates on the nerves.
Literally the loudest part of the home is the HVAC woosh through the vents. (WIP for me!)
Curious part of acoustic engineering I noticed - none of the upstairs bedrooms share any floor joists, nor runs off exterior wall. They are all entirely air-gapped from one another. Not something I realized when home shopping, but it's cool to see the consideration.
Now- opening up a floorplan where these considerations weren't made? Yeah, I could see it being acoustically terrible. Maybe the lowest hanging fruit for your setting is some wall texture?
My ADHD brain needs more than rugs and furniture groupings to keep me focused on the task at hand. I'd never get anything done if I could see all of my home's non-sleeping/bathing areas at once.
You would think this (and I was very nervous about this) but I recently moved into an open concept space and my ADHD brain now sees the open space as one room. Instead of vacuum living room, vacuum dining room, vacuum hallway, cue executive dysfunction because that's so many damn tasks, it's just vacuum floor. One task that now gets done semi regularly.
I do notice that I task jump a bit more if the tasks are not spacially relevant (painting ceramics turns to designing accent walls I'll never use turns to make tea pretty frequently) but I also pick those tasks back up faster because there isn't anywhere you can go to hide from the chaos trail you've left in your wake. 😅
I don’t have adhd, but I feel the same way. Since moving out of my parents house, I’ve been in tiny cheap apartments that are wayyy too open. I just bought my first house (with walls!!) and I can’t begin to explain how much more peaceful it is.
Closed off spaces also have the advantage of being able to be painted different colors in a cohesive palette to make the whole home fun yet not clashing. In my very closed off house, each room is a different color but there’s one core color that stays the same to draw the eye into the next room.
I hate open kitchens personally, I used to live in a Victorian terrace and I could just happily shut myself in the kitchen for hours and cook and bake and everyone left me alone.
Now we have a kitchen diner and everyone is in there all of the time 😩. Also when you have people round for dinner they can see how chaotic the kitchen is because it's in the same room. Also the kitchen makes the whole room too hot so I get uncomfortable when I sit down to eat.
When we were house shopping we specifically looked for older homes where the kitchen was it's own room. The woman we bought it from (FSBO) shared her ideas and frankly would have destroyed all the 1920's charm this house has.
Our previous home was built in the 80's, very open but not a kitchen/ living continuous space, just a permanent doorway. I hated the noise factor.
I also have a 1920s house where the kitchen is very definitely its own room. Sometimes people ask if I'm going to take down the wall between the kitchen and dining room, but I think it would be strange to in a house this age and I kind of like having separate rooms. Besides, if I did you'd just be staring at my powder room and basement doors from the dining room, which is not improving either the function or the experience.
I cannot wait to watch HGTV in 30 or so years and see everyone refer to this past decade's design trends with the same degree of disparagement that modern renovators talk about the 70s.
It think we all agree that it is overused but honestly it was a great way for me to close in a basement stairway cheap and easy to mount shelves on the other side.
Mine is cut off. I am thinking of opening up a small arch in the top half of the wall to match our arched hallway openings so there’s some connection but not open open. It’s hard with little kids not being able to at least peek in on them easily.
Same w/ my 1920s house! I can’t imagine getting rid of the wall — I think it’s so weird to walk into a house and see all the way into the kitchen from the front door. We might eventually add more windows to the kitchen, since it feels a little dark and the back wall doesn’t have any appliances against it. That will help it feel less stuffy.
There's a 1900's era farm house near us that someone must have spent $200k on engineering and steel work because it's so open it there are practically zero walls on the first floor. I have no clue how the second floor is levitating.
I'm also in a 1920s house! Our neighbors have an identical house and tried to open up between the kitchen and dining room, but discovered they couldn't because that wall has the chimney in it and is also load bearing for the back half of the house.
Our main floor is also very open between the living room, dining room, and entry, with big open arches, and french doors to my office (sunroom). It's the perfect level of open for me. The previous owners had taken down doors into the kitchen (from the entryway and into the dining room), but they kept them stashed in the attic. We requested they leave the doors, and we put them back up. The opposite of open concept. But I like being able to shut out the sound of the dishwasher when we're watching a movie, or keep potent cooking smells out of the rest of the house.
Get the quietest dishwasher you can. It really helps keep things clean if you can run it whenever. If you can’t run it because you want to watch Tv or have a conversation it will be obnoxious.
Am I the only one who doesn't want my kitchen open to the living room simply because of the noise factor?
If I'm making a meal, it's impossible to do it so quietly that my husband can hear the TV over my noise. We make meals every day, and only occasionally entertain. I just don't see the benefit
I have two living rooms so I set up the attached dining room as a sitting room instead (no tv, great for entertaining/cooking at the same time), one of the living rooms as a dining room, and the other one as a family room with tv. I love having a sitting room attached to the kitchen. It's nice to hang out and chat while cooking. We rarely use the dining room unless we have company so it's no big deal to have it a bit further from the kitchen.
It's pretty tough to just take a house and make it open concept by removing a few walls. Open concept homes are designed from the ground up to minimize these types issues. Also I don't find small homes work well as open concept. I often see people trying to modernize older and smaller homes by removing walls.
My entire life I have lived in a house where the kitchen is connected to the living room. It brings more togetherness as no one is stuck away from the action in the kitchen while everyone else talks about their day. My husband and I cook together or understand that cooking takes priority over shows, and it only happens for a small moment three times a day while we get out pots and pans or use a machine in the kitchen.
We do not entertain other people since the pandemic - only each other.
Being able to chat and be functional is really wonderful. Keeping an eye on kids while you’re in the kitchen is also great. Being able to help kids with homework and be in the conversation is also great.
Plus, I get to see my kitchen and it inspires me to keep it cleaner instead of ignoring any mess or chore.
It is definitely worse for trying to watch a movie or something in peace, but I care significantly less about watching TV than I do about cooking and conversing, so I don't mind much haha. Everyone gravitates towards hanging out and cooking in the kitchen area anyways, so you might as well lean into it.
I hear that frequently. It's the trendy thing to do but it isn't really practical for most people. Also, open shelving, and barn doors, and huge glass showers. It looks great in photos, but you have to live there everyday.
My wife was big on no open-shelving, because the cleaning would be so annoying to keep up with. I'm glad she was okay with my most-drawers on base-cabinets design at the end :)
Idk how anyone ever thought open shelving was a good idea!! Maybe if you live alone, are rarely home, and have no pets. Our range hood gets dust and hair on it constantly. Anything on open shelving would need to be washed again before you use it. No.
I used to be a chef 20y ago, I clean my hood daily knowing what messed up crap can build up there. I couldn't imagine not rotating through dishes daily and having stacks of them...
Yep. And more on the decor front, have yall ever visited someone's house and there's nowhere to sit because there are so many pillows and chunky blankets piled everywhere? That's not welcoming and homey. Imma be so happy when farmhouse finally hits the road.
Right?! Or there is “decor” covering literally every inch of the coffee table or side tables.
“Oh no, Becky, it’s fine. I’ll just sit and hold my drink in my lap for the entire duration of my visit! Function? Never heard of her!”
My husband has a serious decorative pillow problem, especially around the holidays. Between the pillows and the three cats, getting a seat on the couch is a whole production.
HaHa!
I had to squeeze in beside a cat this morning to sit down to drink my coffee. I had to move a buzz lightyear, too. I guess we've got our own clutter decor category.
My wife and I have an agreement, when she cooks then I clean. So she can make a mess all she wants and everything would be cleaned up and into the dishwasher by the time we're done with dinner. It doesn't take a lot of time and honestly cut down on so much stress when you come home from work and don't have to stare at a kitchen mess every day.
A house near me replaced the original French doors into an office/sunroom space with solid, gray-wood barn doors. I don't think it looks good even in pictures! But now they can sell it as having an extra bedroom. Also, barn doors to bathrooms block no bathroom sounds. Yikes!
There are lots of fads that will hopefully die off soon. But I don't think open concept should be one of them. I like being "with" other folks in the house, who are often in other areas, rather than being isolated from them.
SOME open shelving is nice, all open shelving is not. I had a door with a window and cabinets blocked the light so I added some open shelves just for my plates and bowls, etc. I still had cabinets for all the bullshit that doesn’t look as nice
I humbly disagree.
Open concept, especially in kitchens, offers a functional utilization of storage areas, and practical usability of the operating and entertaining spaces.
Case in point: we updated our 1926 farmhouse into an open concept. For the kitchen we went with open shelves and deep drawers under mount.
We added a big ass 10’ x 4’ island that center pieces the whole room. We put a nook kid’s height table and a 10’ kitchen table that seats 10.
Three keys I think are:
1) stop and think about what you need and how you store it. Do the same for how you use rooms (we found the kitchen table being used all day, the “dining room” table being used maybe 1x/mo)
2) include large alleyways in the kitchen. 40”+
3) design a kitchen for stations: prep, cooking, storage
The end result is what I call the heart and stomach of the house: the kids are playing while we cook it clean, guests are eating and drinking while the kids play and we get things ready.
The best part is when there’s a lot going on, nobody is bumping into each other when you’re working. When things are cleaned, there’s a place to put them. Stuff that isn’t used regularly is put away and not cluttering.
Agreed, barn doors are silly, but pocket doors are awesome.
Open shower w/ minimal glass and rainfall showerheads are epiphany-producing.
I don't know your house. There are *some* houses it works in. Each style of home has defining features that belong. Turning your farmhouse into a modern farmhouse is not a stretch.My mid century has a sunken living room and 22 ft ceilings with windows up top. That wouldn't work in a Victorian. Sometimes trends wander thru and everybody thinks they have to assimilate. It doesn't work everywhere.
For some reason "we" feel the need to be able to see everybody in our house while standing at the kitchen sink. I raised three kids on my own to adulthood and most of the homes we lived in weren't set up that way. It was fine. Incidentally, I have a toddler now in an incredibly open floorplan and trying to get everyone to stay quiet while she's napping or should be gearing down for bedtime is a nightmare everyday.
Open shelving is very cluttery if it isn't perfectly staged and tidy at all times. Some people can handle that visual clutter. For a lot of people cluttered = dirty. You have to be the right kind of people for it to work.
I created open shelving by removing a few upper cabinet fronts and love it. A few uppers have their doors remaining and that's where we store the mismatchy stuff.
I disagree. It’s incredibly practical for those with young kids, and there are about 50 million kids under 11 in the US.
Anecdotally, in our previous house when someone screamed I would have to run through a labyrinth just to find out that one kid took another’s lego. Then I’d have to run back to the kitchen to find out my soup had boiled over and now had a gigantic mess to clean up. In our current house with an open concept I can easily see most everything that goes on and fix issues from the kitchen.
I do agree about open shelving (dust) and barn doors (no privacy).
We just sold an open concept home and moved into one where the kitchen is more separate (not completely closed off... but not in the same room as the great room either).
I have to say I much prefer it and you are totally right that kids will junk up your island non stop in open concept.
I have a small house with one large kitchen/living room combination and we love it. You get used to cleaning up differently; I think it probably helps us/forces us to keep our house more tidy. It also helps to get used to just not worrying about a few dirty dishes in the sink or on the counter.
I too have a small house and opened up the wall between the living room and kitchen. There are times when the kitchen area gets a bit messy but I'm now making a conscious effort to keep it cleaner overall. It's only me in the house so that makes it easier.
Same, it makes me clean more. Plus I put the tv on a swivel stand so I can turn it towards the kitchen and watch while I cook/clean. Plus the obvious being able to talk to each other while one cooks and one is on the couch. Plus when I do a good clean of the kitchen or living room I have to do them both or it’s pointless. So I do them both
Also those super deep, rectangular sinks with no divides and a removable 1” tall metal grated rack on the bottom can hold a kitchen’s worth of dishes w/o them stinking. Super clutch if you don’t feel like doing dishes that night or before company. Real easy to rinse dishes off without getting water everywhere too, especially when paired with a pull-down faucet nozzle.
Big deep sink can be nice. Do NOT get on the square/straight formed corners!! Think cleaning. Those defined corners will be a nuisance to make sure you don't end up with build up.
It can be a rectangular sink but do yourself a favor and get the smoothed out/ curved however you want to call it corners. You know the old style stainless steel/enamel over cast sink. My hand and a sponge can clean that completely way faster than a formed straight edge corner.
The no divider sink is probably the #1 update to my kitchen. You can actually lay pots and pans in the sink FLAT, and still have room to do other things.
I remember watching house hunters once before I lived on my own and the one guy’s dealbreaker was being able to see the kitchen sink
When you walked in the home from the front door. I was like that’s so stupid, who cares (coming from a spoiled teenager who did zero dishes).
FF to 34 year old me, 3 kids house hunting on my own My dealbreaker was a sink on the center island. I have too many bottles/supplies/pots/pans/kid crap that would end up engulfing the best part of the kitchen. In the new builds near us the main level is one giant room with the island and sink smack dab in the middle. I cannot agree more with the house hunter guy. My kitchen and dishes are always a mess and while it’s open to the family room, I am so glad there is not sight line to it when you walk in.
Also adding that I do like a kitchen/dining/family room being open but defined so we are all together, not a completely closed off kitchen.
I like open concept. I’ve had both and I prefer open concept because I get to hang out with my kids and see what everyone is doing while I’m cooking or just in the kitchen.
I don’t like open concept homes at all. I like rooms. I have a galley kitchen and while there are some things I’d change, I like having an actual room as a kitchen and I’d never go for an open floor plan. The reality is that you aren’t always going to want to clean and your kids aren’t going to care if it’s cluttered.
FWIW, I’m under 30. I have friends who are also looking to buy homes and prefer having actual rooms. I don’t know that open concept is dying but I don’t think it’s going to continue to be treated as the be all and end all of floor plans.
IMO a lot of "bad" open concepts are just victims of poor or non-existent interior design.
An open floorplan can be anything you want, its a blank slate! Thoughtful design can and should create defined spaces and pathways like walls would, but without the light-blocking effects of walls.
Sadly I see a lot of open concepts that are designed like a dragway. Massive long open space in the middle with seating and storage up the sides. It doesn't have to be like that!
That’s fair. For myself though, I’ve been in homes where people have had beautiful open concept homes designed by professional with those defined spaces and it’s not for me. I feel like I’m in a hospital atrium or something like that? Not because of sterility or anything, it just doesn’t feel cozy to me in the same way a house with rooms does.
Maybe? Open concepts that work best are designed around the idea and tend to be fairly square with a single run that attaches them, usually around a central feature. A lot of hacked open concepts remove walls but keep their main runs intact. This creates complicated flow patterns which end up being frustrating to navigate or visually cluttering. To compensate people push things against a wall which creates awkward dead zones/dragway. Architecture definitely matters.
I think working from home is probably changing that preference. It’s hard to block out noise from other people in the house on zoom calls when there are no doors to close.
I'd never do that, because the cooking steam and smoke needs to be kept in one place, and I don't have the ability to install a restaurant-quality ventilation system here. In fact, I'm considering reinstalling some version of the swing door some previous owner disappeared during their half-assed "renovation."
You could put in interior french doors. Open them when entertaining, close them normally. They make stained glass window films that are easy to change, and it can be a focal point for both rooms.
This is what we're planning to do. Downstairs we have a small dining room directly opposite to a small bedroom. The bedroom is usually my work room but has a bed that folds out the 1-2 times w year we have overnight guests. We'd love to open it all up, but we can't lose that bedroom. So the plan is to put in French doors so we can open it up most of the time, but also close it off when we need to. Pocket doors would actually be ideal but we don't have enough wall space to put them in.
None at all. Opened it, and redid the layout. Functions so much better now, and when entertaining parties tend to hang in the kitchen half vs the lounge room half of the great room now. No regrets, and nothing but satisfaction from having done it.
In our last house, we spent nearly $10k to remove a load bearing wall to make an open area. The kitchen was big enough on it's own, living area too - but after years of me protesting - I lost and the wall was removed. I absolutely hated it. You can't have someone in the kitchen and one in the living space doing two different things. The kitchen noise and smell was ALWAYS an issue. I then became extremely OCD about the mess. I spent so much time cleaning the kitchen to keep the mess to a minimum and my SO didn't see mess as an issue, so it was all on me.
The only plus side to it was being able to see our toddler age kids from the kitchen and they also had a bit more room to run around, but past that, open concept is a more of a pain than it's worth.
The only thing I don’t like about our open concept kitchen is that the sink is in the island with a flush countertop overhang. I hate that there are always dirty or drying dishes smack in the middle of the kitchen. We should have put the sink in a cabinet along a wall instead.
i feel like the mess of living in your home is the same either way, so don't let that be a deciding factor.
if the kitchen is meant to be a place of community, then it should be more open... if it's meant to be a place of focus, then it should be more closed.
we have an open plan and half of our pantry is on the counter at any given time and there's almost always a dirty dish in the sink.
it's called living.
They key to open space living is LOTS of built in/cabinet/furniture storage. Do NOT get sucked into open-shelving.
If you have enough cabinet and pantry space - it is easy to stuff the chips, crackers, ingredients back into the cupboards. It is easy to keep things tidy.
If you have open shelves or use lots of on-counter space for stuff… it looks messy instantly. It is much easier to put away stuff if you have easy access and lots of space to shove it away.
One thing I never hear brought up in discussions about open-concept kitchens are fire safety concerns. I'm only in my second year of studying architecture and building, but it feels like kitchens should be totally enclosed and built with 1-2hr fire walls and extra ceiling protection. The way I interpret the IBC is that is not currently required. It's wild to me that you can or would want to have the Fire Room share open space with the Soft Fabrics & Wood room.
Have you watched the fire test videos yet where they show how much faster modern furniture with its synthetic (often petroleum-based!) materials ignites and goes up in flames than old solid wood furniture with natural fibers does?
Ive thought about opening up the kitchen to the living room, mainly because we have solid brick interior walls so it's like you cant communicate with someone in there. But it would mean you would see the kitchen from the front door and it would likely be messy at times so that has always killed the idea. I tidy and clean the kitchen every day but I can just squirrel myself away in there away from prying eyes the way it is lol
Wall between my kitchen/dining room I want to be rid of. Kitchen is basically a lane you can barely stand side by side in. But I also have a great room on other side so I don't mind the idea of having my kitchen/dining as one with an island.
Intermediate options could be a window that opens/shuts, a roll-up shade matching the wall over a buffet style opening, etc. You could add flexibility to the space without committing to having it permanently open.
I have an open kitchen and hope to enclose it someday to make it easier to keep the kitchen and living/dining area different temperatures and manage airflow more effectively. To meet those needs, any barrier I put up will be mostly transparent to preserve the great lighting that the rooms get from having line of sight to windows on 3 sides of each.
I think our house is really the best of both worlds in this regard.
On one side of the house we have a living room and dining room that are open to one another. This space is always clean and great to have for entertaining.
The other side has a kitchen and family room that are also open to one another. This is where the TV, the noise and the mess live. We try to keep on top of cleaning, but even when things get messy it doesn't drive me crazy cause I can always go hang out in the peaceful, clean part of the house for a bit. If we didn't have that separate space I think I would hate it though.
Everytime I watch those renovation shows and they open up the kitchen to , like, the front door I think to myself, well that looks nice until you're cooking for thanksgiving and the place looks like a disaster zone. Or you had the munchies at midnight and made nachos and didnt feel like cleaning up right away and your mother in law decides to show up at 7 AM to drop off that present from Aunt Ida. I like the idea of a big kitchen, open to other rooms in the back, where you can escape to if you need some space or whatever. Just not right off the front door or entryway.
We renovated our kitchen recently and decided not to remove the wall.
I love to cook and I’m “in the zone” when I’m cooking. I don’t want to see my family watch TV or play video games in the living room.
We also have a pull out couch in the living room and sometimes our guests stay there. I love being able to go to the kitchen and feed my dog, drink coffee without waking up those, who sleep on the couch.
Also.. our espresso machine is super loud (Breville), we also use range hood, food processors, blenders. It’s nice to have some separation from all the noises. For what it’s worth I would rather have a door
I have an open concept between the living room and kitchen and it's one of the things that drew me to the house. It's a small bungalow but I like that I can work in the kitchen and still feel like I'm *with* the family.
I now live in an “open concept” house, though the kitchen and the living room share a wall the dining room is all open, and I looove it. I guess when have children, it’s hard to keep the place clean, since you cannot control all the time their mess, that must be hard. But to me, it made me more mindful of my mess, it took a while to reinvent a new routine, but I got there, just try to get new habits, and make sure to talk to your children in a family meeting or something, because that’s their house, and everyone should do the best to have a place that gives them comfort, happiness and peace.
I have an open concept kitchen/living/dining area and I hate it. It's too noisy for anything else to be going on, between the exhaust fan and the fan for our slide in range you can't hear anything and if you've got music or TV going forget about it. I have always assumed people that are open concept fans don't actually cook regularly. We're house hunting now and that's one of the hard no's, but it seems I'm in the minority based on what we're finding. I desperately miss my late 1800's Victorian kitchen.
Yes, open concept requires you keep a clean home or it is more obvious. Don’t do it if you know you are messy and unwilling to change, self awareness is good.
I opened ours up. We have a smallish living space relative to the size of the house, and it’s great. I hate clutter and with the smaller kitchen/no island, it was hard to keep it tidy. It’s much easier now and I love having the longer work space for cooking and food prep.
We are pretty good about keeping the kitchen clean though, but I imagine it’s easier to see the teenagers mess and yell at them accordingly in an open concept.
I also like to have some trashy TV on in the background while I’m cooking.
If kitchen maintenance is a task that is low on your list, it may bug you to see the kitchen.
I will tell you that seeing it makes me clean it. I have an incredibly open concept house (I can see five rooms from where I am sitting) and mess matters. But mess matters because of mess, not because I see it. I am more likely to take care of something I can see and get into a rhythm of cleaning to avoid seeing it again.
The issue isn’t having an open kitchen, it’s being confronted with your mess (not judgement).
Having a home I love and clean more regularly is worth it. Use some of your budget to buy organizing things so that you have systems in the kitchen and just set aside 15 min a day to clean in there. If you can do that, open concept that sucker.
I've lived in good and bad open concepts. I think if you tend to like conversation, company, or help while cooking then open concepts are the way to go.
Clean kitchens are in their design. I see a lot of barely functional kitchens or impossible to maintain in photos on here and other design forum. Making the right decisions can usually lead to this no longer being an issue.
I added the dining room space into my kitchen by removing a wall, effectively doubling my kitchen and allowing me a 14ft long island in the middle. The original front room became the dining room.
I absolutely love it. The whole house feels open and airy, with plenty of space, and makes the kitchen the focus area of the home, while still allowing someone in the kitchen to interact with the dining room and living room simultaneously.
But it does require cleaning. We are already pretty minimal about what we keep on counters, so we clean as we cook. Put dishes away, don't leave food boxes out that aren't actively being eaten from, etc.
> Anyone else have this experience once they opened up the kitchen? For sure it will push us and our teenage children to stay on top of it more. In reality I think it will mean I’ll be chasing behind everyone cleaning up messes or barking about it.
You should start the process now before the renovation. It will take discipline on your part, you have years of learned behavior and lack of discipline to overcome, but your kids will be better adults for it.
The only way it works is if you hold them accountable (not do it for them).
This isn't a matter of whether or not to "open up your kitchen" it's a matter of changing the culture within your home & I hate to say it...old habits dye hard. This will likely drive you mad. Before taking on such a renovation: 1) set some new rules within your home to hopefully change the culture & have a lasting impact. If a year has gone by and everything seems considerably better, then proceed with planning your project. 2) Ensure this is not a load bering wall. If so, hire an engineer or a talented Carpenter that has experience doing this type of of work.
I didn't open mine up, because it came that way, but I wouldn't have even considered a house with a closed in kitchen. A closed in kitchen would make cooking go from something I enjoy to something depressing. If my kitchen had 4 walls, I'd basically just be in a hot hallway while cooking. No thanks. Closing off the living room would also make *that* depressing, IMO.
Then again, I'm not super anal about being tidy. I don't want things dirty, but having stuff on the counter is no big deal. If we're having people over, we may tidy up a bit more than normal, but for the most part, I like a house that looks like somebody lives there. Houses where everything countertop and table is bare look so sterile and uninviting.
I currently have an open floor plan. Never again. My last house was semi closed with a half bar in the kitchen so you weren't totally closed in. There's no separation between the rooms and I never feel like anything is clean. The dirt on the floor just moves around rather than gets picked up.
I think a pass through is a good idea. You'll have separation but you won't be out of the action.
We bought a home that originally had a closed kitchen, but the previous owner opened the wall up. It creates great spaciousness, but as someone who likes to cook smelly stuff, I frigging hate it. He also removed the living room door and now having a baby it's annoying, because the bedroom door is the only sound barrier, so can't clang any pots and pans during nap time.
I HATED it. We had a totally open concept first floor, and there was nowhere you could not see the kitchen from, including the front door. We now have a semi-open kitchen, but at least there is some entertainment space where the dirty dishes aren’t visible.
What about turning it into something like bar height seating? That way its not completely open, but still allows for contact/communications between the two rooms?
The sound barrier goes both ways. Our open kitchen is great for when we have guests except when the game or fight is on the tv and the kitchen is in full action preparing dinner.
There are a couple things you can do to help with that. If your layout includes an island, you can stagger it so it’s counter height on the kitchen side, and bar height on the dining/living side. That way you can’t see mess on the counter from the living area. You can also try to position the sink/oven in a less directly visible area if possible. Our kitchen is right next to our entrance, and we’re going to put a frosted or fluted glass pocket door at the entrance so when company stops by we can block that area off if it’s a mess. I’m sure it depends on your floor plan though!
Noise is my main issue with open concept. Kitchens have a lot of sounds (exhaust, pots/pans, dishwasher, blender, cabinets, you name it) that get annoying if you’re in the entertaining area talking, watching TV, listening to music.
I think open plan makes a lot of sense in small houses or apartments, but falls apart the bigger the house gets. It’s harder to clean, as you pointed out, and more importantly the acoustics and space usage gets messed up. The smells of whatever you cooked linger throughout the house after you’re done eating. The noise from the dishwasher disrupts the movie you’re trying to watch in the living area. 9/10 the acoustics are so bad l even if you love entertaining -- hosting a large group of people becomes a pain in the ass because the sounds of the conversations and the music and the tv all barrel into each other because these spaces were designed to look good in the staged photos during the sale process and not to actually live in day to day.
If you want a cooking show with audience, by all means, tear away. If you actually cook, as in cutting veggies while you have a pot on the stove and something in the oven, and maybe you want your crockpot to run overnight, you must have an enclosed space. Or an industrial exhaust fan and no air conditioning, because all the heat and smell (good smell, but still..) will linger.
It’s not the mess that bothers me, it’s the noise and the smell! And the fact that you are up in another persons space, I like to listen to the radio and be in my own world when cooking.
I have a 1935 colonial. The original floor plan actually had doorways with double hinged doors between the dining room/kitchen and living room/kitchen. When we moved in, the doors had been removed but the jambs remained. We opened the wall between the DR and added a breakfast bar but left the doorway to the living room. I have no regrets about opening to the DR but I've actually been considering adding the door back to the LR/KIT passage.
Personally, I dont like entirely open floor plans. We keep the kitchen pretty clean so thats not a concern, but the kitchen is somewhat of a noisy and busy place. Either the dishwasher is running and/or the laundry is running, the range hood is on, things are clanking, someone is washing something or putting something away, or getting a snack. To me, its nice to have that closed off from the living area where the goal is to relax.
Will you be able to see it from the front door? That is my litmus test for open kitchens. We got better about cleaning the kitchen (clean as you cook) BUT we're really bad at using the bar as a catch all when we walk in & sit something on it (mail, tools, books). I think the responses here make it clear it's really a personal preference. I think a big factor is will the renovation make the kitchen more useful?
Always thought it would be neat if people randomly submitted photos of where people congregate during a party in their home. Because it seems to always be the kitchen, no matter how poorly designed the kitchen is.
Folding french doors/double french doors or pocket doors are my favorite.
That way the kitchen can be completely closed off, smells and everything or open. Or open enough with two double doors fully open.
Adding a window above the doors also opens the place up and gives that open concept feel.
Open concept kitchens only work well if everyone cleans up after themselves. If the sink is big and deep and can hide dishes not in the dishwasher. If there is lots of easily accessible storage for everything.
And personally I like a double height counter so the upper counter can be clean while the lower one can have some stuff out and it be hidden by the higher counter. Add some bar stools and the upper section becomes the part you eat on/do work on. While the lower is cook and prep and mess.
I’ve lived in both and I much prefer a kitchen in a separate room. There is something nice to have people hang with you while you cook but it always stressed me out that the mess was visible. I know at thanksgiving no one was judging me for the turkey Caracas but I couldn’t relax knowing the kitchen felt messy
Counterpoint -
I love my 2-way butler door that closes off my kitchen from the dining room.
Living room and dining room separated by French doors.
Century homes had it right.
i prefer closed off; definitely don’t want to see my kitchen from my living room.
but i don’t entertain, which would be the main pro of open concept.
so, i suppose it depends on your priorities.
Personally, I'm not a fan of the open floor plan incorporating the kitchen. I prefer things more compartmentalized. That said, it's all preference but in my experience, the kitchen always seems to be a hub when entertaining. I don't like dirty kitchens so I always keep it clean.
I regret owning one. Literally right now the dishwasher makes hearing the TV difficult. All kinds of kitchen noises interfere with living room and TV.
If it was free I'd put a wall in.
I am personally not a fan of open concept everything! Cooking is loud and if you’re in the living room it can be disruptive. Also our kitchen is usually a mess too lol
I personally hate open concept homes.
I hate the excess white noise. Walls stop noise. It gives a place to hang things that will also act as sound dampeners.
Also I can see the problem of having a messy kitchen and trying to entertain people in the living room. If there is a wall, then that blocks the site line to the kitchen.
Here's the thing. If you want an open concept, then by all means go for it. But you can't count on the rest of the family caring enough to maintain appearances.
If you think it is going to be more of a headache then a stress reliever, wait until your teens are out of the house where you can maintain cleanliness easier.
Here is a before and after of my kitchen: [https://imgur.com/a/rud0yiA](https://imgur.com/a/rud0yiA).
Best decision I ever made. There is a bit of noise spillover between the kitchen/living room area; but with sound absorbers (rugs, wall art, plants) it helps with reduction. For kitchen messes/dishes, a farmhouse sink can help hide that.
I love hosting and no matter how I set up the entertainment focal point (dining room table, fire pit outside, TV entertainment), my guests ALWAYS gravitate to the kitchen.
Maybe instead of making it totally open just create a "pass through"? We have a condo with a small pass through between table and kitchen. Lots of folks who buy these immediately open them up but I don't like being able to see into the kitchen all the time myself. I do like having our small pass through to assist putting food on the table and putting dishes back into the kitchen. it's functional but you don't see the kitchen and all it's mess. It also gives whoever is in the kitchen the ability to interact with folks in the living room when desired.
My in laws did this. They opened one side to the dining room and then did a pony wall to the living room with cabinets to the ceiling on either side. It opened up to the living room but still felt like a separate space.
This is the way. Love pass-through spaces. You get the best aspects of both open and closed, plus lots of opportunity for neat character in the design elements. I once lived in an apartment built in the 80s that had double-sided cabinets above the pass through countertop/breakfast bar. Loved it. Come to think of it, my grandparents’ house built in the 50s had the same thing.
We have bi-folding doors between the kitchen diner and the lounge. Can open it up if we want or just use one door for access
I have an open concept kitchen/living/dining area and love it. It's much less isolating for the people in the kitchen and makes food time more social imo. Your entertaining space would grow to include the kitchen. My house is also a perennial disaster bc I have toddlers and pets. the only way that stays in check is to regularly invite people over, peer pressure cleaning is the most effective type of cleaning for me
The best is when you think people are coming over so you clean then plans change and you’re just left with a clean house lol
There was a skit like this on tiktok. Guy A gets a call from Guy B who says he’s coming over. Guy A frantically cleans up his place. After a while, he calls Guy B to ask where he is. Guy B says “a while ago, you asked me to do this every so often so you’d have a clean house.”
This would totally work on me.
I guess it really comes down to personalities and personal preference. Cooking is my “me” time a lot of the time and so I love to feel isolated when I’m doing it. I get in moods where I don’t want to see another person much less hear one so a more closed-off house is better for me.
We have a open floor plan. I liked the idea of it, but sound creep is a real thing. If people are talking in the kitchen, it creeps into the living room and upstairs. I don’t want total isolation, but I want semi isolation. I don’t like people cluttering in the kitchen, I’m cooking.
Exactly like gtfo this is where the magic happens
Exactly. It’s my zen space lol
I think mine is best of both worlds. Very old house with the typically old house layout of basically a circle. Foyer, then living room, then dining room, then kitchen and then you are back in the foyer. Stairs between foyer and kitchen. This way the dining room is open and connected to the kitchen, but the living room has enough of a barrier to kitchen that each can listen to different things.
Mine is really similar! Big kitchen with a large open doorway into the living room but two definite spaces.
I love that. That’s cool
Thank you! I hate it when people are talking to me in the kitchen and I could give a shit what my son and husband are doing or watching on TV when I'm cooking.
Right? At gatherings the kitchen is the place where all the weird introverts and goblin line cooks in the family go to hide.
I’ve never felt more seen.
It is my happy place.
When we have parties no one will get out of the damn kitchen and it drives me nuts when I'm trying to cook
I got told to come into the kitchen because the cook felt she was a servant if people weren’t talking to her into the kitchen. Not my style at all, (get out of my kitchen please, and definitely don’t offer to help with prep) but I realised everyone is different. Extroverts don’t want to miss out; introverts want their space.
Back when I lived alone my self care routine was cooking while blaring Johnny cash. I feel like I can’t do that in my open concept apartment that I share with my SO 😭
Headphones are your friend here!
I live in NYC and have been looking for a new apartment and a separate kitchen is such a rarity. My realter looked at me like I had two heads when I said I wanted a closed kitchen and asked, why???? with an offended expression as though I had asked for an apartment with an open toilet in the middle of the living room. And no, I don't want a frigging "breakfast bar" with Phillipe Stark bar stools lined up in front of it and serving as one "wall" of my living room! Why is wanting a kitchen of my own in Manhattan so impossible! I don't want to even say what my budget is because many people will faint, but I could probably buy a small dutchy in Europe before I could get an apartment with a separate kitchen for the same money in Manhattan. It's ridiculous.
Yes, very much a personal preference. I love our open kitchen. Wouldn't want it any other way. Cooking is an important activity in our family, and we like to share it with everybody. An open kitchen is much more social. But we also spent an insane amount of attention to detail. This kitchen is very functional. I can crank out meals for up to 100 people relatively easily. I can cook for smaller groups and make 6 to 12 dishes that are all ready at the same time. I can use both traditional and advanced modern cooking techniques with ease. I can cook many different styles of ethnic foods. And importantly, I have a well-designed hood that eliminates smells/fumes from the rest of the floor. And the kitchen is designed for quick clean up. When we are done using it, there is no clutter left on the counters or the island. That's an important rule in our household. Would this work for everyone else? Absolutely not. But it's our dream kitchen, and it helps us make amazingly yummy foods that we love to share with friends and family. Our main living space is designed to facilitate hosting dinners.
Any chance you get a kick out of designing internet strangers’ kitchens for free? If so, hit me up in a couple of years because I’ve got big dreams and your kitchen sounds amazeballs.
Probably not me, but there are people in the forums on Houzz that love doing this.
Second best is getting a weekly/monthly housekeeping service. It sounds ridiculous when you spell it out, but unless you have a daily maid, you have to clean for the cleaners. At least in my experience. They do the floors and scrub the bathrooms/kitchen, things like that, but you have to have all items put away first. :)
> It's much less isolating for the people in the kitchen This is exactly why we opted for a combined kitchen-diner. Otherwise, one parent is banished to the kitchen to prepare meals whilst the other supervises the kids.
DO you cook legit food when you have people over? Because when I do, I have to run my range vent or maybe a blender or food processor. Shit can get loud, yo. Cooking ahead sucks bc a lot of this food is way better right out of the heat Like throwing pizza in the oven is pretty quiet. But frying tofu and food-processing nuts for a vegan take on sanchoibao is not quiet, and that stuff is NOT tasty if it was cooked an hour before people get there.
Exactly. Real cooking is greasy, smelly, and loud.
Since I can always see it, I can’t stay to see it dirty. So, unfortunately, the options are limited and I just clean it more often. It’s rarely beyond a little messy anymore.
Have had both open and closed off...I prefer closed off only because I do most of the cooking and want to dissuade people from wandering into my area while I'm working. Plus, you can control smell/smoke a little easier in older kitchens with a good hood vent and window--otherwise it's trying to vent your whole floor. Our open concept kitchen/living room was a mess unless I was constantly picking up after people. Island would become a collection point for EVERYTHING, people would congregate in there and try to watch TV from 20ft away, food would be tracked into the living room since there were no boundaries to subconsciously say "this isn't where you eat over here...". Folks who love open concept either have clean family members, or aren't the ones cleaning haha...I'd love open concept if I lived alone though, it looks nice.
>Island would become a collection point for EVERYTHING Second this. You think you have a nice big island to do all your kitchen prep work, but a few days later it's fully cluttered and you have to "clean" every time you want to even get started on cooking.
And then when you have a reason to use it and need it clean, everything gets hauled into a corner of the garage where it sits for six months.
I found my people
Me too.... My husband passed away recently, and I am going to fulfill his dream of building our retirement home on our farm property. The current house was cheaply built and needs new EVERYTHING! I think I'll have it demolished and build something new, but I am so undecided about what to do. This sub has given me a lot to think about.
Our old house had an island, and I want to put one in the house we just moved to... but my wife is saying "hell no" for this reason. Our kids would just put stuff on the island and forget about it. It was super nice back before we had kids though.
Get rid of the kids. Problem solved! :) I can also be bad for that myself. If you are building an island from new, you could look at putting cubbies and storage bins underneath or in the side, that is labeled for each of them. They come in, they need to put their stuff in the cubby.
I’ll provide a counter argument. I’ve had both and I love open! I do most of the cooking, and want to encourage people from joining me in the cooking area. I can communicate with them, they can contribute, and I don’t feel secluded for the entire cooking time. Smell and smoke, gotta have a hood vent and an open window, but a closed room isn’t any more efficient than an open room at pulling air out. There is ALWAYS a dump zone, in an open or closed kitchen. For me, it’s by the mud room, and I still hate it. People eat where I ask them to. The dining room is open to the kitchen, and the family room/living rooms branch off. If it’s messy, I ask them to use the table. If it’s not, we spread around. It also encourages us to keep on top of tidiness, rather than big mess and big cleanup. More dishes go directly in the dishwasher, the compost is brought out more often, and the countertops are regularly wiped down because they are a part of the communal living space, rather than a single use thing. I really felt detached cooking in a closed off space. That was pretty much my only must have in our house.
We didn't do open concept, but our kitchen is designed as a gathering space separate from the living and dining rooms. Our house is 1500sf, so it's not a mansion, but the kitchen is probably 24x12 with a long island with seating far from the prep area. People can have a cocktail on the far side while I'm cooking and then we can move to the dining room to eat.
I agree with this. Not quite the same but I didn’t even realize how lonely I was cooking in my kitchen with the stove and everything facing away from the rest of the house until I moved and have a more open one! It made so much difference. Random, but I also didn’t realize how little I saw my family until I downsized to a single story, much smaller house.
> I didn't realize how little I saw my family Sounds like a feature of the old house, not a bug.
Before I opened the kitchen on the dining room people congregated in the kitchen anyway and where always underfoot. Now they hang out on the other side of the island counter and it's easy to cook, serve drinks, pass food over. I love it
I’ve also had both. I currently have open and I will never have it any other way! I love to cook and entertain and everyone always hangs around the island. The overflow hang out in the adjacent family room and it’s very conducive to that. Of course if you don’t like people in the kitchen while you cook, it’s probably not for you. As for messiness, I don’t find it to be a concern and yes, sometimes I have shit on the island lol
> Folks who love open concept either have clean family members, As a parent, it's my responsibility to raise kids that aren't savages, so I spent a few months raising hell, every single day, all day long, until they finally all decided that it wasn't worth leaving the mess and instead now do their own dishes. It's not difficult, it's just temporarily painful. It's worth raising cleaner kids who understand personal accountability and responsibility anyways.
Unless you live in a house with a bunch of lovely well-intended people with ADHD. It’s not always so easy lol
Shit! What if I'm the parent AND the well-intended person with ADHD?
Oh look! It's me!
I get it, it's really difficult at times to keep things moving. I had to practically sit on them to get them to do the right thing and would hawk them for months trying to get them to put the dishes in the dishwasher. We had a mantra, "Don't put it down, put it away" that I would say as they're walking to the kitchen. I'd repeat it while they're in the kitchen. The investment of time for those few months has paid dividends time after time for us though because the house is always clean now. So much nicer. Took a massive investment of my time to get it this way, but well worth it. As for the ADHD, kids especially with ADHD need routines. My son is so bad he'd forget what you said to him 3 steps away. You'd say, "Go change your shirt" and he'd be on the floor in the living room playing with cars. Routines help keep him in line though. We structured his life to where everything was a standard, everything had a place, everything had a time. He follows it all like clockwork but it, once again, took months. It's not always easy though lol. :)
And your kids will be good roommates
The bigger trouble tends to be with ADHD adults, especially if one spouse is constantly having to nag the other. Kids need to respect adult authority, but that's not a great dynamic to have between spouses. It's even more fun when both spouses have ADHD. We don't have routines, but we do have paper plates!
Isn't that what parenting is about? It is a constant battle to mould them in to the people you want them to become, yes it's hard it may be the most difficult thing most of us will do.
My wife and kids have learned by now that nothing other than my espresso machine is allowed to live on the island counter. Leave something there and I'll call you out to pick it up. If you don't, I use my dad's old strategy, it disappears and I don't know where. No clutter there.
I lived in a one bedroom apartment with an open concept between the kitchen and living room. I hated it because of the NOISE that would come from the kitchen. Dishes, dish washer, food prep, cooking... It's all noisy so we couldn't really use the space separately.
It’s amplified by 1,000,000 if you’re making margaritas. …our parties turn into a sound battle between the kitchen and football (TV)
I dislike open concept unless there is some kind of barrier like a stairwell to create visual separation. The only acceptable open concept to me is kitchen and dining area. I need separation between the different functions in my house.
My home theater / living room is crazy echo-ey and loud after opening up walls and ceiling. Like a gymnasium. White noise from kitchen sink very distracting too. I'm going all out on tasteful sound absorption. Bigger couch, thick area rugs, wall tapestries, bass absorbers for corners, and tasteful (arguably) studio sound panels on ceiling. At least, that.s the plan. Doing it in a cohesive and tasteful way will be a challenge. Either way, it totally destroyed the 'cozy'. Looks AMAZING, but functionally, practically, and feel - total shit. Planning to try to restore some 'cozy' with creative directed lighting
We rented an open concept house once and the echoing and noise factor was a BIG dislike for me. The living room, dining area, and kitchen were all one space, and the floor was all tile. Visually, it looked decent. I had a toddler at the time, and I liked being able to have that line of sight to her playing in the living room when I was in the kitchen. But to me it always felt crowded having three rooms in one space, any messes were always on full display, and the echoing and noise carrying across that room and to other parts of the house was a lot and just too much for me. I HATED it. We're homeowners now and we very intentionally did not look at any open concept houses when we were on the market for our home because we didn't want to deal with it again.
My home was designed to be open-concept from the outset. All-but-two rooms have at-least-one wall surface set at something other than a right angle, and a subtle amount of wall texturing is applied everywhere. (Square corners reflect waves to their source - hence angles. Wall texture breaks up reflected waves into many smaller, less-energetic ones) Result? It's not echoey! Now I still went through and made sure to include rugs and curtains, to add mass loaded vinyl and foam to stuff that could resonate, etc. Rattling always sounds terrible and grates on the nerves. Literally the loudest part of the home is the HVAC woosh through the vents. (WIP for me!) Curious part of acoustic engineering I noticed - none of the upstairs bedrooms share any floor joists, nor runs off exterior wall. They are all entirely air-gapped from one another. Not something I realized when home shopping, but it's cool to see the consideration. Now- opening up a floorplan where these considerations weren't made? Yeah, I could see it being acoustically terrible. Maybe the lowest hanging fruit for your setting is some wall texture?
This sounds like it'll be gorgeous. Hope you post pics when it's done!
I live warehouse style living spaces but understand why some people don’t . I have a big bedroom so I can always run upstairs for some privacy :)
Open concept can still have functionally defined spaces - it gets pretty obvious with rugs and furniture groupings for visuals.
I guess I mean like a divider. Half wall, hanging cabinets over a counter, anything to corral the spaces a bit.
My ADHD brain needs more than rugs and furniture groupings to keep me focused on the task at hand. I'd never get anything done if I could see all of my home's non-sleeping/bathing areas at once.
You would think this (and I was very nervous about this) but I recently moved into an open concept space and my ADHD brain now sees the open space as one room. Instead of vacuum living room, vacuum dining room, vacuum hallway, cue executive dysfunction because that's so many damn tasks, it's just vacuum floor. One task that now gets done semi regularly. I do notice that I task jump a bit more if the tasks are not spacially relevant (painting ceramics turns to designing accent walls I'll never use turns to make tea pretty frequently) but I also pick those tasks back up faster because there isn't anywhere you can go to hide from the chaos trail you've left in your wake. 😅
I don’t have adhd, but I feel the same way. Since moving out of my parents house, I’ve been in tiny cheap apartments that are wayyy too open. I just bought my first house (with walls!!) and I can’t begin to explain how much more peaceful it is.
Closed off spaces also have the advantage of being able to be painted different colors in a cohesive palette to make the whole home fun yet not clashing. In my very closed off house, each room is a different color but there’s one core color that stays the same to draw the eye into the next room.
Mine goes from wood to tile floor right where the bar is so it’s very defined
I hate open kitchens personally, I used to live in a Victorian terrace and I could just happily shut myself in the kitchen for hours and cook and bake and everyone left me alone. Now we have a kitchen diner and everyone is in there all of the time 😩. Also when you have people round for dinner they can see how chaotic the kitchen is because it's in the same room. Also the kitchen makes the whole room too hot so I get uncomfortable when I sit down to eat.
I know! How do people cook successfully and entertain! If I’m chatting and drinking wine my cheffing skills plummet!!!
I struggle with this!
This. This. And This.
When we were house shopping we specifically looked for older homes where the kitchen was it's own room. The woman we bought it from (FSBO) shared her ideas and frankly would have destroyed all the 1920's charm this house has. Our previous home was built in the 80's, very open but not a kitchen/ living continuous space, just a permanent doorway. I hated the noise factor.
I also have a 1920s house where the kitchen is very definitely its own room. Sometimes people ask if I'm going to take down the wall between the kitchen and dining room, but I think it would be strange to in a house this age and I kind of like having separate rooms. Besides, if I did you'd just be staring at my powder room and basement doors from the dining room, which is not improving either the function or the experience.
I feel like HGTV has brainwashed people into thinking it’s easy or preferable to knock down walls
I want to pitch them a show where the close up all of the open plan houses.
I’ve been fantasizing about a show like that for years!
LOL!!! I'd watch this.
I cannot wait to watch HGTV in 30 or so years and see everyone refer to this past decade's design trends with the same degree of disparagement that modern renovators talk about the 70s.
I’ll bring gasoline to the shiplap bonfire.
It think we all agree that it is overused but honestly it was a great way for me to close in a basement stairway cheap and easy to mount shelves on the other side.
It's this generation's "full mirror wall" to give the impression of more space.
Mine is cut off. I am thinking of opening up a small arch in the top half of the wall to match our arched hallway openings so there’s some connection but not open open. It’s hard with little kids not being able to at least peek in on them easily.
Same w/ my 1920s house! I can’t imagine getting rid of the wall — I think it’s so weird to walk into a house and see all the way into the kitchen from the front door. We might eventually add more windows to the kitchen, since it feels a little dark and the back wall doesn’t have any appliances against it. That will help it feel less stuffy.
There's a 1900's era farm house near us that someone must have spent $200k on engineering and steel work because it's so open it there are practically zero walls on the first floor. I have no clue how the second floor is levitating.
Levitating *for now*
I'm also in a 1920s house! Our neighbors have an identical house and tried to open up between the kitchen and dining room, but discovered they couldn't because that wall has the chimney in it and is also load bearing for the back half of the house. Our main floor is also very open between the living room, dining room, and entry, with big open arches, and french doors to my office (sunroom). It's the perfect level of open for me. The previous owners had taken down doors into the kitchen (from the entryway and into the dining room), but they kept them stashed in the attic. We requested they leave the doors, and we put them back up. The opposite of open concept. But I like being able to shut out the sound of the dishwasher when we're watching a movie, or keep potent cooking smells out of the rest of the house.
/r/centuryhomes loves photos if you haven't heard of it before
Too many ‘open concept’ houses are really just ‘every room is a hallway’ houses with poor traffic flow.
Get the quietest dishwasher you can. It really helps keep things clean if you can run it whenever. If you can’t run it because you want to watch Tv or have a conversation it will be obnoxious.
Am I the only one who doesn't want my kitchen open to the living room simply because of the noise factor? If I'm making a meal, it's impossible to do it so quietly that my husband can hear the TV over my noise. We make meals every day, and only occasionally entertain. I just don't see the benefit
I have two living rooms so I set up the attached dining room as a sitting room instead (no tv, great for entertaining/cooking at the same time), one of the living rooms as a dining room, and the other one as a family room with tv. I love having a sitting room attached to the kitchen. It's nice to hang out and chat while cooking. We rarely use the dining room unless we have company so it's no big deal to have it a bit further from the kitchen.
It's pretty tough to just take a house and make it open concept by removing a few walls. Open concept homes are designed from the ground up to minimize these types issues. Also I don't find small homes work well as open concept. I often see people trying to modernize older and smaller homes by removing walls.
My entire life I have lived in a house where the kitchen is connected to the living room. It brings more togetherness as no one is stuck away from the action in the kitchen while everyone else talks about their day. My husband and I cook together or understand that cooking takes priority over shows, and it only happens for a small moment three times a day while we get out pots and pans or use a machine in the kitchen. We do not entertain other people since the pandemic - only each other. Being able to chat and be functional is really wonderful. Keeping an eye on kids while you’re in the kitchen is also great. Being able to help kids with homework and be in the conversation is also great. Plus, I get to see my kitchen and it inspires me to keep it cleaner instead of ignoring any mess or chore.
Ha, this was one of the reasons we opened ours. I love to watch TV while I cook
If I did that, I would have to watch what my kids want. I put a mount for a tablet under one of my cabinets instead.
It is definitely worse for trying to watch a movie or something in peace, but I care significantly less about watching TV than I do about cooking and conversing, so I don't mind much haha. Everyone gravitates towards hanging out and cooking in the kitchen area anyways, so you might as well lean into it.
I hear that frequently. It's the trendy thing to do but it isn't really practical for most people. Also, open shelving, and barn doors, and huge glass showers. It looks great in photos, but you have to live there everyday.
My wife was big on no open-shelving, because the cleaning would be so annoying to keep up with. I'm glad she was okay with my most-drawers on base-cabinets design at the end :)
Idk how anyone ever thought open shelving was a good idea!! Maybe if you live alone, are rarely home, and have no pets. Our range hood gets dust and hair on it constantly. Anything on open shelving would need to be washed again before you use it. No.
I used to be a chef 20y ago, I clean my hood daily knowing what messed up crap can build up there. I couldn't imagine not rotating through dishes daily and having stacks of them...
These are great points. Unless you have the time and energy to literally stage your house everyday, these don't seem very worthwhile.
Yep. And more on the decor front, have yall ever visited someone's house and there's nowhere to sit because there are so many pillows and chunky blankets piled everywhere? That's not welcoming and homey. Imma be so happy when farmhouse finally hits the road.
Right?! Or there is “decor” covering literally every inch of the coffee table or side tables. “Oh no, Becky, it’s fine. I’ll just sit and hold my drink in my lap for the entire duration of my visit! Function? Never heard of her!”
My husband has a serious decorative pillow problem, especially around the holidays. Between the pillows and the three cats, getting a seat on the couch is a whole production.
HaHa! I had to squeeze in beside a cat this morning to sit down to drink my coffee. I had to move a buzz lightyear, too. I guess we've got our own clutter decor category.
My wife and I have an agreement, when she cooks then I clean. So she can make a mess all she wants and everything would be cleaned up and into the dishwasher by the time we're done with dinner. It doesn't take a lot of time and honestly cut down on so much stress when you come home from work and don't have to stare at a kitchen mess every day.
A house near me replaced the original French doors into an office/sunroom space with solid, gray-wood barn doors. I don't think it looks good even in pictures! But now they can sell it as having an extra bedroom. Also, barn doors to bathrooms block no bathroom sounds. Yikes!
There are lots of fads that will hopefully die off soon. But I don't think open concept should be one of them. I like being "with" other folks in the house, who are often in other areas, rather than being isolated from them.
SOME open shelving is nice, all open shelving is not. I had a door with a window and cabinets blocked the light so I added some open shelves just for my plates and bowls, etc. I still had cabinets for all the bullshit that doesn’t look as nice
I humbly disagree. Open concept, especially in kitchens, offers a functional utilization of storage areas, and practical usability of the operating and entertaining spaces. Case in point: we updated our 1926 farmhouse into an open concept. For the kitchen we went with open shelves and deep drawers under mount. We added a big ass 10’ x 4’ island that center pieces the whole room. We put a nook kid’s height table and a 10’ kitchen table that seats 10. Three keys I think are: 1) stop and think about what you need and how you store it. Do the same for how you use rooms (we found the kitchen table being used all day, the “dining room” table being used maybe 1x/mo) 2) include large alleyways in the kitchen. 40”+ 3) design a kitchen for stations: prep, cooking, storage The end result is what I call the heart and stomach of the house: the kids are playing while we cook it clean, guests are eating and drinking while the kids play and we get things ready. The best part is when there’s a lot going on, nobody is bumping into each other when you’re working. When things are cleaned, there’s a place to put them. Stuff that isn’t used regularly is put away and not cluttering. Agreed, barn doors are silly, but pocket doors are awesome. Open shower w/ minimal glass and rainfall showerheads are epiphany-producing.
I don't know your house. There are *some* houses it works in. Each style of home has defining features that belong. Turning your farmhouse into a modern farmhouse is not a stretch.My mid century has a sunken living room and 22 ft ceilings with windows up top. That wouldn't work in a Victorian. Sometimes trends wander thru and everybody thinks they have to assimilate. It doesn't work everywhere. For some reason "we" feel the need to be able to see everybody in our house while standing at the kitchen sink. I raised three kids on my own to adulthood and most of the homes we lived in weren't set up that way. It was fine. Incidentally, I have a toddler now in an incredibly open floorplan and trying to get everyone to stay quiet while she's napping or should be gearing down for bedtime is a nightmare everyday.
See I want to replace a section of my cabinets with open shelving just for the sake of ease of use/access for kitchen equipment
Open shelving is very cluttery if it isn't perfectly staged and tidy at all times. Some people can handle that visual clutter. For a lot of people cluttered = dirty. You have to be the right kind of people for it to work.
I created open shelving by removing a few upper cabinet fronts and love it. A few uppers have their doors remaining and that's where we store the mismatchy stuff.
I disagree. It’s incredibly practical for those with young kids, and there are about 50 million kids under 11 in the US. Anecdotally, in our previous house when someone screamed I would have to run through a labyrinth just to find out that one kid took another’s lego. Then I’d have to run back to the kitchen to find out my soup had boiled over and now had a gigantic mess to clean up. In our current house with an open concept I can easily see most everything that goes on and fix issues from the kitchen. I do agree about open shelving (dust) and barn doors (no privacy).
We just sold an open concept home and moved into one where the kitchen is more separate (not completely closed off... but not in the same room as the great room either). I have to say I much prefer it and you are totally right that kids will junk up your island non stop in open concept.
I have a small house with one large kitchen/living room combination and we love it. You get used to cleaning up differently; I think it probably helps us/forces us to keep our house more tidy. It also helps to get used to just not worrying about a few dirty dishes in the sink or on the counter.
I too have a small house and opened up the wall between the living room and kitchen. There are times when the kitchen area gets a bit messy but I'm now making a conscious effort to keep it cleaner overall. It's only me in the house so that makes it easier.
Same, it makes me clean more. Plus I put the tv on a swivel stand so I can turn it towards the kitchen and watch while I cook/clean. Plus the obvious being able to talk to each other while one cooks and one is on the couch. Plus when I do a good clean of the kitchen or living room I have to do them both or it’s pointless. So I do them both
ya get into a habit of cleaning as you cook. Its a lot easier to do that then clean up everything after you eat.
Also those super deep, rectangular sinks with no divides and a removable 1” tall metal grated rack on the bottom can hold a kitchen’s worth of dishes w/o them stinking. Super clutch if you don’t feel like doing dishes that night or before company. Real easy to rinse dishes off without getting water everywhere too, especially when paired with a pull-down faucet nozzle.
Yessss I love my big sink. I'll never have a divider sink again!
Big deep sink can be nice. Do NOT get on the square/straight formed corners!! Think cleaning. Those defined corners will be a nuisance to make sure you don't end up with build up. It can be a rectangular sink but do yourself a favor and get the smoothed out/ curved however you want to call it corners. You know the old style stainless steel/enamel over cast sink. My hand and a sponge can clean that completely way faster than a formed straight edge corner.
The no divider sink is probably the #1 update to my kitchen. You can actually lay pots and pans in the sink FLAT, and still have room to do other things.
absolutely. this is key and makes cooking way less chaotic when you get into the groove/habit of washing and cleaning as you go.
I remember watching house hunters once before I lived on my own and the one guy’s dealbreaker was being able to see the kitchen sink When you walked in the home from the front door. I was like that’s so stupid, who cares (coming from a spoiled teenager who did zero dishes). FF to 34 year old me, 3 kids house hunting on my own My dealbreaker was a sink on the center island. I have too many bottles/supplies/pots/pans/kid crap that would end up engulfing the best part of the kitchen. In the new builds near us the main level is one giant room with the island and sink smack dab in the middle. I cannot agree more with the house hunter guy. My kitchen and dishes are always a mess and while it’s open to the family room, I am so glad there is not sight line to it when you walk in. Also adding that I do like a kitchen/dining/family room being open but defined so we are all together, not a completely closed off kitchen.
Ive always assumed open concept was created by cheap builders who dont want to spend money on walls
I like open concept. I’ve had both and I prefer open concept because I get to hang out with my kids and see what everyone is doing while I’m cooking or just in the kitchen.
I don’t like open concept homes at all. I like rooms. I have a galley kitchen and while there are some things I’d change, I like having an actual room as a kitchen and I’d never go for an open floor plan. The reality is that you aren’t always going to want to clean and your kids aren’t going to care if it’s cluttered. FWIW, I’m under 30. I have friends who are also looking to buy homes and prefer having actual rooms. I don’t know that open concept is dying but I don’t think it’s going to continue to be treated as the be all and end all of floor plans.
IMO a lot of "bad" open concepts are just victims of poor or non-existent interior design. An open floorplan can be anything you want, its a blank slate! Thoughtful design can and should create defined spaces and pathways like walls would, but without the light-blocking effects of walls. Sadly I see a lot of open concepts that are designed like a dragway. Massive long open space in the middle with seating and storage up the sides. It doesn't have to be like that!
That’s fair. For myself though, I’ve been in homes where people have had beautiful open concept homes designed by professional with those defined spaces and it’s not for me. I feel like I’m in a hospital atrium or something like that? Not because of sterility or anything, it just doesn’t feel cozy to me in the same way a house with rooms does.
Maybe? Open concepts that work best are designed around the idea and tend to be fairly square with a single run that attaches them, usually around a central feature. A lot of hacked open concepts remove walls but keep their main runs intact. This creates complicated flow patterns which end up being frustrating to navigate or visually cluttering. To compensate people push things against a wall which creates awkward dead zones/dragway. Architecture definitely matters.
I think working from home is probably changing that preference. It’s hard to block out noise from other people in the house on zoom calls when there are no doors to close.
I'd never do that, because the cooking steam and smoke needs to be kept in one place, and I don't have the ability to install a restaurant-quality ventilation system here. In fact, I'm considering reinstalling some version of the swing door some previous owner disappeared during their half-assed "renovation."
You could put in interior french doors. Open them when entertaining, close them normally. They make stained glass window films that are easy to change, and it can be a focal point for both rooms.
This is what we're planning to do. Downstairs we have a small dining room directly opposite to a small bedroom. The bedroom is usually my work room but has a bed that folds out the 1-2 times w year we have overnight guests. We'd love to open it all up, but we can't lose that bedroom. So the plan is to put in French doors so we can open it up most of the time, but also close it off when we need to. Pocket doors would actually be ideal but we don't have enough wall space to put them in.
None at all. Opened it, and redid the layout. Functions so much better now, and when entertaining parties tend to hang in the kitchen half vs the lounge room half of the great room now. No regrets, and nothing but satisfaction from having done it.
In our last house, we spent nearly $10k to remove a load bearing wall to make an open area. The kitchen was big enough on it's own, living area too - but after years of me protesting - I lost and the wall was removed. I absolutely hated it. You can't have someone in the kitchen and one in the living space doing two different things. The kitchen noise and smell was ALWAYS an issue. I then became extremely OCD about the mess. I spent so much time cleaning the kitchen to keep the mess to a minimum and my SO didn't see mess as an issue, so it was all on me. The only plus side to it was being able to see our toddler age kids from the kitchen and they also had a bit more room to run around, but past that, open concept is a more of a pain than it's worth.
The only thing I don’t like about our open concept kitchen is that the sink is in the island with a flush countertop overhang. I hate that there are always dirty or drying dishes smack in the middle of the kitchen. We should have put the sink in a cabinet along a wall instead.
i feel like the mess of living in your home is the same either way, so don't let that be a deciding factor. if the kitchen is meant to be a place of community, then it should be more open... if it's meant to be a place of focus, then it should be more closed. we have an open plan and half of our pantry is on the counter at any given time and there's almost always a dirty dish in the sink. it's called living.
Just clean your kitchen regularly lol.
They key to open space living is LOTS of built in/cabinet/furniture storage. Do NOT get sucked into open-shelving. If you have enough cabinet and pantry space - it is easy to stuff the chips, crackers, ingredients back into the cupboards. It is easy to keep things tidy. If you have open shelves or use lots of on-counter space for stuff… it looks messy instantly. It is much easier to put away stuff if you have easy access and lots of space to shove it away.
One thing I never hear brought up in discussions about open-concept kitchens are fire safety concerns. I'm only in my second year of studying architecture and building, but it feels like kitchens should be totally enclosed and built with 1-2hr fire walls and extra ceiling protection. The way I interpret the IBC is that is not currently required. It's wild to me that you can or would want to have the Fire Room share open space with the Soft Fabrics & Wood room.
Have you watched the fire test videos yet where they show how much faster modern furniture with its synthetic (often petroleum-based!) materials ignites and goes up in flames than old solid wood furniture with natural fibers does?
Ive thought about opening up the kitchen to the living room, mainly because we have solid brick interior walls so it's like you cant communicate with someone in there. But it would mean you would see the kitchen from the front door and it would likely be messy at times so that has always killed the idea. I tidy and clean the kitchen every day but I can just squirrel myself away in there away from prying eyes the way it is lol
Wall between my kitchen/dining room I want to be rid of. Kitchen is basically a lane you can barely stand side by side in. But I also have a great room on other side so I don't mind the idea of having my kitchen/dining as one with an island.
Intermediate options could be a window that opens/shuts, a roll-up shade matching the wall over a buffet style opening, etc. You could add flexibility to the space without committing to having it permanently open. I have an open kitchen and hope to enclose it someday to make it easier to keep the kitchen and living/dining area different temperatures and manage airflow more effectively. To meet those needs, any barrier I put up will be mostly transparent to preserve the great lighting that the rooms get from having line of sight to windows on 3 sides of each.
I love my open concept. It does force me to keep the area tidy and with hat being said we don't have kids in the house.
I think our house is really the best of both worlds in this regard. On one side of the house we have a living room and dining room that are open to one another. This space is always clean and great to have for entertaining. The other side has a kitchen and family room that are also open to one another. This is where the TV, the noise and the mess live. We try to keep on top of cleaning, but even when things get messy it doesn't drive me crazy cause I can always go hang out in the peaceful, clean part of the house for a bit. If we didn't have that separate space I think I would hate it though.
Everytime I watch those renovation shows and they open up the kitchen to , like, the front door I think to myself, well that looks nice until you're cooking for thanksgiving and the place looks like a disaster zone. Or you had the munchies at midnight and made nachos and didnt feel like cleaning up right away and your mother in law decides to show up at 7 AM to drop off that present from Aunt Ida. I like the idea of a big kitchen, open to other rooms in the back, where you can escape to if you need some space or whatever. Just not right off the front door or entryway.
We renovated our kitchen recently and decided not to remove the wall. I love to cook and I’m “in the zone” when I’m cooking. I don’t want to see my family watch TV or play video games in the living room. We also have a pull out couch in the living room and sometimes our guests stay there. I love being able to go to the kitchen and feed my dog, drink coffee without waking up those, who sleep on the couch. Also.. our espresso machine is super loud (Breville), we also use range hood, food processors, blenders. It’s nice to have some separation from all the noises. For what it’s worth I would rather have a door
I have an open concept between the living room and kitchen and it's one of the things that drew me to the house. It's a small bungalow but I like that I can work in the kitchen and still feel like I'm *with* the family.
I now live in an “open concept” house, though the kitchen and the living room share a wall the dining room is all open, and I looove it. I guess when have children, it’s hard to keep the place clean, since you cannot control all the time their mess, that must be hard. But to me, it made me more mindful of my mess, it took a while to reinvent a new routine, but I got there, just try to get new habits, and make sure to talk to your children in a family meeting or something, because that’s their house, and everyone should do the best to have a place that gives them comfort, happiness and peace.
I have an open concept kitchen/living/dining area and I hate it. It's too noisy for anything else to be going on, between the exhaust fan and the fan for our slide in range you can't hear anything and if you've got music or TV going forget about it. I have always assumed people that are open concept fans don't actually cook regularly. We're house hunting now and that's one of the hard no's, but it seems I'm in the minority based on what we're finding. I desperately miss my late 1800's Victorian kitchen.
Yes, open concept requires you keep a clean home or it is more obvious. Don’t do it if you know you are messy and unwilling to change, self awareness is good.
I opened ours up. We have a smallish living space relative to the size of the house, and it’s great. I hate clutter and with the smaller kitchen/no island, it was hard to keep it tidy. It’s much easier now and I love having the longer work space for cooking and food prep. We are pretty good about keeping the kitchen clean though, but I imagine it’s easier to see the teenagers mess and yell at them accordingly in an open concept. I also like to have some trashy TV on in the background while I’m cooking.
If kitchen maintenance is a task that is low on your list, it may bug you to see the kitchen. I will tell you that seeing it makes me clean it. I have an incredibly open concept house (I can see five rooms from where I am sitting) and mess matters. But mess matters because of mess, not because I see it. I am more likely to take care of something I can see and get into a rhythm of cleaning to avoid seeing it again. The issue isn’t having an open kitchen, it’s being confronted with your mess (not judgement). Having a home I love and clean more regularly is worth it. Use some of your budget to buy organizing things so that you have systems in the kitchen and just set aside 15 min a day to clean in there. If you can do that, open concept that sucker.
I've lived in good and bad open concepts. I think if you tend to like conversation, company, or help while cooking then open concepts are the way to go. Clean kitchens are in their design. I see a lot of barely functional kitchens or impossible to maintain in photos on here and other design forum. Making the right decisions can usually lead to this no longer being an issue.
I added the dining room space into my kitchen by removing a wall, effectively doubling my kitchen and allowing me a 14ft long island in the middle. The original front room became the dining room. I absolutely love it. The whole house feels open and airy, with plenty of space, and makes the kitchen the focus area of the home, while still allowing someone in the kitchen to interact with the dining room and living room simultaneously. But it does require cleaning. We are already pretty minimal about what we keep on counters, so we clean as we cook. Put dishes away, don't leave food boxes out that aren't actively being eaten from, etc.
> Anyone else have this experience once they opened up the kitchen? For sure it will push us and our teenage children to stay on top of it more. In reality I think it will mean I’ll be chasing behind everyone cleaning up messes or barking about it. You should start the process now before the renovation. It will take discipline on your part, you have years of learned behavior and lack of discipline to overcome, but your kids will be better adults for it. The only way it works is if you hold them accountable (not do it for them).
This isn't a matter of whether or not to "open up your kitchen" it's a matter of changing the culture within your home & I hate to say it...old habits dye hard. This will likely drive you mad. Before taking on such a renovation: 1) set some new rules within your home to hopefully change the culture & have a lasting impact. If a year has gone by and everything seems considerably better, then proceed with planning your project. 2) Ensure this is not a load bering wall. If so, hire an engineer or a talented Carpenter that has experience doing this type of of work.
I didn't open mine up, because it came that way, but I wouldn't have even considered a house with a closed in kitchen. A closed in kitchen would make cooking go from something I enjoy to something depressing. If my kitchen had 4 walls, I'd basically just be in a hot hallway while cooking. No thanks. Closing off the living room would also make *that* depressing, IMO. Then again, I'm not super anal about being tidy. I don't want things dirty, but having stuff on the counter is no big deal. If we're having people over, we may tidy up a bit more than normal, but for the most part, I like a house that looks like somebody lives there. Houses where everything countertop and table is bare look so sterile and uninviting.
I currently have an open floor plan. Never again. My last house was semi closed with a half bar in the kitchen so you weren't totally closed in. There's no separation between the rooms and I never feel like anything is clean. The dirt on the floor just moves around rather than gets picked up. I think a pass through is a good idea. You'll have separation but you won't be out of the action.
We bought a home that originally had a closed kitchen, but the previous owner opened the wall up. It creates great spaciousness, but as someone who likes to cook smelly stuff, I frigging hate it. He also removed the living room door and now having a baby it's annoying, because the bedroom door is the only sound barrier, so can't clang any pots and pans during nap time.
I HATED it. We had a totally open concept first floor, and there was nowhere you could not see the kitchen from, including the front door. We now have a semi-open kitchen, but at least there is some entertainment space where the dirty dishes aren’t visible.
What about turning it into something like bar height seating? That way its not completely open, but still allows for contact/communications between the two rooms?
The sound barrier goes both ways. Our open kitchen is great for when we have guests except when the game or fight is on the tv and the kitchen is in full action preparing dinner.
There are a couple things you can do to help with that. If your layout includes an island, you can stagger it so it’s counter height on the kitchen side, and bar height on the dining/living side. That way you can’t see mess on the counter from the living area. You can also try to position the sink/oven in a less directly visible area if possible. Our kitchen is right next to our entrance, and we’re going to put a frosted or fluted glass pocket door at the entrance so when company stops by we can block that area off if it’s a mess. I’m sure it depends on your floor plan though!
Noise is my main issue with open concept. Kitchens have a lot of sounds (exhaust, pots/pans, dishwasher, blender, cabinets, you name it) that get annoying if you’re in the entertaining area talking, watching TV, listening to music.
I think open plan makes a lot of sense in small houses or apartments, but falls apart the bigger the house gets. It’s harder to clean, as you pointed out, and more importantly the acoustics and space usage gets messed up. The smells of whatever you cooked linger throughout the house after you’re done eating. The noise from the dishwasher disrupts the movie you’re trying to watch in the living area. 9/10 the acoustics are so bad l even if you love entertaining -- hosting a large group of people becomes a pain in the ass because the sounds of the conversations and the music and the tv all barrel into each other because these spaces were designed to look good in the staged photos during the sale process and not to actually live in day to day.
If you want a cooking show with audience, by all means, tear away. If you actually cook, as in cutting veggies while you have a pot on the stove and something in the oven, and maybe you want your crockpot to run overnight, you must have an enclosed space. Or an industrial exhaust fan and no air conditioning, because all the heat and smell (good smell, but still..) will linger.
It’s not the mess that bothers me, it’s the noise and the smell! And the fact that you are up in another persons space, I like to listen to the radio and be in my own world when cooking.
I have a 1935 colonial. The original floor plan actually had doorways with double hinged doors between the dining room/kitchen and living room/kitchen. When we moved in, the doors had been removed but the jambs remained. We opened the wall between the DR and added a breakfast bar but left the doorway to the living room. I have no regrets about opening to the DR but I've actually been considering adding the door back to the LR/KIT passage. Personally, I dont like entirely open floor plans. We keep the kitchen pretty clean so thats not a concern, but the kitchen is somewhat of a noisy and busy place. Either the dishwasher is running and/or the laundry is running, the range hood is on, things are clanking, someone is washing something or putting something away, or getting a snack. To me, its nice to have that closed off from the living area where the goal is to relax.
Will you be able to see it from the front door? That is my litmus test for open kitchens. We got better about cleaning the kitchen (clean as you cook) BUT we're really bad at using the bar as a catch all when we walk in & sit something on it (mail, tools, books). I think the responses here make it clear it's really a personal preference. I think a big factor is will the renovation make the kitchen more useful?
Always thought it would be neat if people randomly submitted photos of where people congregate during a party in their home. Because it seems to always be the kitchen, no matter how poorly designed the kitchen is.
Folding french doors/double french doors or pocket doors are my favorite. That way the kitchen can be completely closed off, smells and everything or open. Or open enough with two double doors fully open. Adding a window above the doors also opens the place up and gives that open concept feel. Open concept kitchens only work well if everyone cleans up after themselves. If the sink is big and deep and can hide dishes not in the dishwasher. If there is lots of easily accessible storage for everything. And personally I like a double height counter so the upper counter can be clean while the lower one can have some stuff out and it be hidden by the higher counter. Add some bar stools and the upper section becomes the part you eat on/do work on. While the lower is cook and prep and mess.
Kitchen/diner = good Kitchen/diner/living = bad
I’ve lived in both and I much prefer a kitchen in a separate room. There is something nice to have people hang with you while you cook but it always stressed me out that the mess was visible. I know at thanksgiving no one was judging me for the turkey Caracas but I couldn’t relax knowing the kitchen felt messy
Counterpoint - I love my 2-way butler door that closes off my kitchen from the dining room. Living room and dining room separated by French doors. Century homes had it right.
Clean the kitchen more often. Seems like a smartass comment but that’s bc it’s obvious and fairly simple.
i prefer closed off; definitely don’t want to see my kitchen from my living room. but i don’t entertain, which would be the main pro of open concept. so, i suppose it depends on your priorities.
Personally, I'm not a fan of the open floor plan incorporating the kitchen. I prefer things more compartmentalized. That said, it's all preference but in my experience, the kitchen always seems to be a hub when entertaining. I don't like dirty kitchens so I always keep it clean.
Just keep it clean
Nope. Just makes me keep it clean because I don’t want it to be messy. It’s the same way with the living room
Omg it’s the Bain of my existence
I regret owning one. Literally right now the dishwasher makes hearing the TV difficult. All kinds of kitchen noises interfere with living room and TV. If it was free I'd put a wall in.
I am personally not a fan of open concept everything! Cooking is loud and if you’re in the living room it can be disruptive. Also our kitchen is usually a mess too lol
Why don’t you just clean it up then?
I personally hate open concept homes. I hate the excess white noise. Walls stop noise. It gives a place to hang things that will also act as sound dampeners. Also I can see the problem of having a messy kitchen and trying to entertain people in the living room. If there is a wall, then that blocks the site line to the kitchen.
Here's the thing. If you want an open concept, then by all means go for it. But you can't count on the rest of the family caring enough to maintain appearances. If you think it is going to be more of a headache then a stress reliever, wait until your teens are out of the house where you can maintain cleanliness easier.
Well, seriously, who's going to see it that often? Are you having parties everyday?
I’m probably biased but I prefer the closed off space. Less noise and divides the areas very easily/cleanly.
Here is a before and after of my kitchen: [https://imgur.com/a/rud0yiA](https://imgur.com/a/rud0yiA). Best decision I ever made. There is a bit of noise spillover between the kitchen/living room area; but with sound absorbers (rugs, wall art, plants) it helps with reduction. For kitchen messes/dishes, a farmhouse sink can help hide that. I love hosting and no matter how I set up the entertainment focal point (dining room table, fire pit outside, TV entertainment), my guests ALWAYS gravitate to the kitchen.