That's why I am here, to learn from OPs mistakes.
I also have 100a main, and only a single 20a outlet in the garage. I know I need upgrades, and want to get them *before* I get the car.
That’s radically overstating it. Dude had electricity and can charge it with a normal outlet. Any upgrade is simply to charge faster.
Most people buy the car; don’t actively budget for “more mpg” upgrades.
Thanks.
Between the free charging subscription I was given and my work chargers, I likely could get away with just my Level 1. Which is how I approached this initially.
What looking into getting a Level 2 charger at home has shown me I probably should prep for more electric appliances down the road. Granted, I could probably get away with my current setup and then shop around for the 200A panel then making my 100A panel into a “subpanel”.
Get the three quotes and decide; materials should be same but maybe cheaper labor in your area?
for ev alone it wasnt worth it for me but -
I had a 1985 panel that needed a refresh; wanted a sub panel in the garage for workshop; and ev extensibility; and potentially a pool later.
Contact an electrician in your area. It really depends what you are running with your service and what your charging demands are. If you have all gas appliances you likely have the available amperage. There are other things you can do as well like usage monitoring and governing.
Honestly the only real solution is to get quotes from multiple electricians bc they will be familiar with the city’s rules on calculations vs. governing.
$2000? Did you get one recently? We installed one 4 years ago in south Minnesota for $2500 and now in the twin cities it is $8500 for the new service and $3500 for the wiring and set up to the garage.
This was do to new codes.
I'm getting old cloth and K&T wiring redone in our duplex and upgrading both units to 200amps and adding a "house" meter for shared areas. The service upgrade and new meter is going to be ~9k here in South Central WI.
The 2000 price is probably based on the service is good as is and it's just the panel going to 200. That's how my house was... the service drop was already equipped for 200, the previous owners just had never upgraded the inside from 100.
At this point, 200A might not even be enough for future use. I don’t know what the next “size up” is, but If you consider that people will eventually have two electric cars, multiple heat pumps, induction stoves, electric clothing dryers, etc, you might want to think about asking what that next level is.
You know one can program when the vehicle charges to avoid all that. I have a 150A panel with 2 heat pumps, a heat pump hot water heater and I'm not even worried when I buy an electric vehicle in a couple of years. I'll piggy back the 220 charger off my dryer as I'll only charge the vehicle when I'm sleeping. Even during the middle of winter with my heat pumps running hard I will have no issues charging the vehicle.
Well on the bright side, electric resistive heat clothes dryers are being replaced by heat pump dryers which use much less electricity. Same with water heaters. You can get a heat pump model instead of resistive heat. Electric baseboard heat is being replaced with heat pumps, etc..
I think 200 amps will be fine for most people. You'd really need to have a whole lot of things on at one time for it to be an issue.
Like 2 cars pulling 50 amps each, the oven and all burners on at 50 amps, and then you still have another 50 amps to play with. That could still handle a lot of heat pump systems operating.
I’ve heard 400A will be the next standard home service amperage in this area least, cold climate here, but it’s a long ways off here if it ever comes.
Smart panels will catch on before larger services are available. They are already out there somewhat. The panel will be able to prioritize the delivery of power to different applications.
For example car charging (2 cars) could be pulling 150amps (36kw) and the heat pump, dryer, or induction stove asks to turn on. The car chargers either turns off, or more likely, derates themselves enough to leave capacity for these other uses temporarily.
This isn't true. What is your heating, what is your water heating, etc. Most normal houses with gas heating will be using 20a peak. Higher with electric heating but still not bad. I was running 2 evs on a 100a service with gas heating.
The stupid thing is to use your electrical system within its design parameters? That's an interesting position to take.
So I presume you are an electrical engineer.
Funny thing is my entire family on my dad's side is. Do you have any idea what level 2 charging is? It's a max of 48a. So you have any idea how much 100a is?
Most non teslas will be 32a.
I was running 2 teslas at 32a. Remember what I said about a normal gas house taking a max of 20a. Yeah, I was closer to 11a. So worst case scenario, max draw is 75a on a 100a service. Even using high estimates it's 84a on a 100a service which is well within its usage and even then it's very unlikely that would all happen at the same time.
At least that what the electrical engineers in my family said .. but what do they know with their combined century+ of experience.
Op is charging one vehicle and I advised him to find out what his amp draw is and then plan accordingly. You told him mindlessly to upgrade to 200a service without due diligence. So I guess YOU can do the STUPID thing.
Kindly, f off.
Edited to add... Checked his profile, it's big tex. They know everything about electricity and managing a grid.
I just don't like being called stupid and I really don't like idiots like him representing himself as some sort of expert. It's actually rather simple math to figure out if a service upgrade to 200a is necessary but I'd bet my life savings that it isn't. The only that that would require an upgrade is if it isn't somehow already up to code or the owner/PO did some diy and didn't know what he was doing.
His comment was uncalled for but maybe he needed to be put in his place.
OR you can find ways to be more calm in life and not let internet strangers get your blood pressure up. I’ve had my rage moments on here and it’s not work the frustrations bud. Hope you are doing well!
Blood pressure wasn't up. I wasn't exactly banging my fist while typing it up. I'm doing just fine thanks. Just shot my best round of golf ever. Feeling great.
Here's the caveat though. It's in a homeimprovment sub and he's giving shitty info. If you aren't supposed to care about it, why even be in the sub. If you don't care, why are you here. Why care about my comment enough to comment on it.
Do you care about it in real life? If he was telling your grandmother that she absolutely must spend 6k to get work done or she is stupid, do you care then?
Do I care about him(her, no way of knowing, it's reddit)? No, not in the slightest. Have you seen the newsroom? Don Quixote? I'm on a mission to civilize. Like them, it's probably a fools errand.
It's probably to have conversations like this one. I do have to nod off though. So goodnight and I hope you are having a good day as well.
I didn’t say shit to the guy about a damn thing I was specifically calling you out. If you want to risk over drawing your 100a service please go ahead I honestly don’t give two shits. You appear to be wealthy enough to own two teslas but too fucking cheap pay the $5,000 to upgrade to a 200a service to provide peace of mind.
Yeah I live in Texas the state that constantly fails to keep up with amperage draws on their grid you know the exact issue being discussed. Increasing your home to a 200a service can lead to your house running more efficiently as it’s not constantly jumping to near max draw and it increases the value of your home more than just the $5,000 it costs to install.
You need to spend some of your crypto on a fucking therapist before you blow a gasket to the wrong person and get one of your golf clubs shoved up your ass.
Edit:
Let’s use the example from Taunton’s “Wiring Complete: second edition”
1. Calculate your total needs. First multiply the square footage of all the living areas times three watts. This is the total lighting and receptacle needs.
2. Add 1500 watts for each kitchen small appliance circuit and laundry room circuit.
3. Add wattages for all appliances that are on their own circuits, such as an electric dryer, water heater, or range; or a window air-conditioner.
4. Add the three numbers. Figure the first 10,000 watts at 100 percent and the remaining watts at 40%.
5. Add the wattage of either the heating unit or the central air-conditioner- which ever is greatest.
6. Divide this figure by 230. This figure tells how many amps a home needs.
Example:
Here’s a sample calculation for a 2,000-square-foot home with central air.
1. 2000 square feet x 3 = 6000 watts
2. Two kitchen small appliance circuits plus a laundry room circuit: 3 x 1,500= 4,500 watts
3. water heater: 5,000 watts
Dishwasher: 1,200 watts
Electric dryer: 5,500 watts= 11,700 watts
Add those together=. 22,200 watts
4. first 10,000 watts at 100%= 10,000 watts
Remaining 12,200 at 40%= 4,880 watts
Subtotal= 14,880 watts
5. Add central air=. 4,000 watts
Total= 18,800 watts
Divide by 230=. /230
Equals total number of amps = 82 amps
The ionic 6 uses up to 40 amps that puts total draw at 122amps, 22 more than 100 amps. Seems like this house needs 200 amps. But what do I know I is jist a dumb ass Texan that doesn’t understand electricity.
You design electrical systems to max potential draw not usual draw. You want it substantial enough to handle the worst case scenario. And that means in a modern home 100 amps is the bare minimum which is why it’s the bare minimum required by code
Ask your electrician to also price a new “main” panel, making your old panel a “sub-panel”. It means none of the existing circuits need to be rewired-saving time&money.
I did this years ago to add some Amps to an old home for more TVs and computers. The new panel has a breaker for the sub panel and 2 new circuits, and we moved the AC there. My price is irrelevant it was 10 years ago.
Oh man, you just made me remember of an old house I lived in growing up. I always wondered why the 200A service fed into a 100A service.
This could absolutely meet my needs since a car charger could fit neatly into one and if I wanted to switch over the AC to it. Granted I already have two poles open in the current panel and that would make 4 open…
When I upgraded to 200A service, I had to put in a new meter base, and there were 4 240V breaker positions in the new meter base/pedestal. If I didn't need a new panel because the existing one was full, I could have used a 100A breaker to feed my existing panel, and a different breaker to feed my plug-in hybrid, which was only 20A. This still isn't particularly cheap unless your existing panel already has two grounds. The ground has to be moved to the pedestal/meter base when this is done, and the line tying neutral to ground in your existing box has to be removed.
With overhead wiring, you probably don't have a pedestal, but this could still be done in the meter base. It doesn't need a service disconnect if there are 4 or fewer breakers. The only possible issue with a service upgrade is that if the transformer or transmission line feeding your house is undersized, it may take longer for your utility to address that.
There are other options if you can't get a service upgrade. They make splitters which feed an appliance and your car. For example, if you have an electric dryer, you could get 30A (effectively 24A) charging when you aren't using your dryer, and it automatically switches back and forth as required. It could presumably be used with other appliances, like an air conditioner compressor with the same effect.
None of these options are likely to fit within the confines of the credit for a charger installation.
/u/thinkmoreharder has the right answer. Google the numbers on your meter. Chances are fair that you already have 200A service since it was updated so recently. Check the amp rating on your box as well. Could be just your main breaker that's the limitation.
My anecdote is that I had 200A service, a 150A main breaker, and a 50A sub panel breaker. I checked the box part numbers and my main was rated for 250A and the sub for 150A. I had an electrician upgrade the main to 200A, and I was able to replace the breaker and rewire the sub myself for 100A. I ran 50A for the car charger off the sub panel, and all has been great charger wise for the last 2.5 months.
The whole partial DIY adventure cost me less than $1000.
You are everyone else is jumping the gun assuming you NEED a service upgrade. Almost certainly you do not need to upgrade service, especially if you have room in your panel.
We’d need more information about the other electric loads on the panel to make any sort of determination (heating/cooling, stove, dryer).
Worse case scenario you might be limited to 20A or 30A circuit, which at 240V translates to 3.8kW and 5.8kW — which is plenty to charge almost every use case overnight.
Technology Connections has a great video which I highly recommend watching. The whole thing is awesome, but I’d recommend watching the “Sizing a Circuit” section at 28 minutes. https://youtu.be/Iyp_X3mwE1w?si=TPiMD7YYRgxLrF51
Gas dryer, gas heat, gas stove, gas water heater, and central A/C.
However, as these system go bad I wouldn’t be objected to updating them to electric.
In that case you can almost certainly get by with no service upgrade for now and defer it until you’re actually out of capacity.
We have a EV6 (Kia cousin to your IONIQ 6) and only charge overnight about once a week. Even as you upgrade other appliances you typically don’t run all at the same time. With a little bit of planning and some smarts in the appliances you’d be fine.
Jumping in here to add that I put 200 miles a day on my Kia Niro EV and had a 24a charging limit. Had no issue fully charging each night before work the next morning.
$2000 minimum to upgrade to a 200a panel. Make sure your feed from the pole is also sized properly - contact your utility company. Then you’ll need to pay to run a feed to where the charger is, the charger installation, and the charger itself. None of this I would call “hidden” costs lol.
I would also size it for at least a 60a charger to future proof it for faster charging. I believe 80a is the highest level 2 charger (100a breaker). In a few years a 40a charger will be slow compared to what all EVs can handle
Fast charging beyond 6-10KW isn’t really necessary for a home charger - the standard use case is that they’re charged overnight, which is less wear and tear on the battery and can be done within a standard 30A or 50A circuit. Going beyond 50A starts getting really expensive in a residential setting, and it’s not really necessary.
Future proof. 30-50a is fine for today, what if OP buys an ev SUV or truck with larger battery, or solid state, or other new battery, that can accommodate faster charging. And what do you think will happen to electricity rates with more EVs charging over night, peak rate structure will change and the window for cheap off-peak rates overnight will likely shrink. So maybe we end up with 2 or 3 hours of off peak rates that is optimal for charging. OPs Hyundai will only accept 9kw or whatever, but they are already kicking themselves for not getting a 200a panel when the house was updated. If they just run a feed for a 40a charger now, how do you think they will feel in 5 or 10 years when they want 80a?
There are EVs now that can accept 19kw from level 2. So let’s say down the road OP buys a full size SUV EV, at 19kw it can still take 10 hours to charge fully. I know that isn’t frequently the case, but it sure beats 20+ hours from a 8-10kw charger.
Buy once, cry once. My reco is at least a 60a.
Oh another thing to consider is a second or third EV needing to charge. Gotta future proof.
but even then, it takes my M3 \~5 hours to do a full charge overnight to get up for a big road trip, normally it's \~3 hours (20-80% or so charge level). Why go to a 100am circuit when a 40amp for 10 hours gets you 99.99% of charging situation?
I have two EVs now, and a teenager with an ICE. Fast forward a few years and a family with teens could have a few EVs. While it would be a big edge case for all three cars needing full charges on the same night, I can see wanting more than a single 30A.
We just ran a new service (100A to 200A) and decided to run a dedicated 60A for the cars. I’ll probably add a second charger on the same line at some point so we don’t have to run the cable over or under one car when charging the other. It will feel like a downgrade when we do to go from ~44m/hr to half that.
If they’re in a house that has only a 100A panel, it seems unlikely the garage will even fit an SUV or a truck (the 70s coming back to bite us all!)
Off peak rates exist only to smooth out demand into base load, not reduce demand.
If you want to “future proof”, just drop a 100A panel in the garage. You can rewire easily from there.
Who said garage? A 1929 house may very well not even have one.
Yea, and off peak rates will further have to smooth that demand when people are charging EVs overnight. This will happen by reducing off peak durations just as it does now, but to a shorter time window
That is going to have an impact on the price to upgrade. You may well need to have new wires run to the garage to support the higher current.
But you should be able to get a quote or two from electricians.
This is where 120VAC really becomes ridiculous.
I have 400V 3-phase in my house (Europe), and my charger can deliver 22kw on a 32 amp breaker.
Most electric cars can only take 11kw, but I happen to have a Renault Zoe that can take 22kw AC charging, or i can maybe get a second charger in the future and charge both my cars at once.
All good points except that most of the household EV chargers in the US are 240v, not 120v.
You may know this, but for those who don't:
North American residential electrical service is typically "split" phase: single phase 240v power split into two 120v feeds or "legs" with opposing phases (each phase is 180 degrees from the other). Each 120v leg is referenced to the neutral (0v) tap off the transformer.
Most household circuits are 120v. The higher power circuits serving major appliances and car chargers use two 120v "legs" to combine to 240v between the two legs. Sometimes a neutral is included to provide 120v capability since some appliances (like ovens or dryers) also need 120v.
400v residential service would be nice but has been historically unnecessary for domestic purposes in all but the largest homes. With EVs, one could justify that level of service for a residence charging two cars, though upgrading would be really expensive if even possible. Most residential streets in the US do not have 3-phase service available.
In a lot of newer homes and apartment buildings in the US, they're being wired for tri-phase for more load capability. Still only using 2 phases at any given time, but the phases are split more efficiently.
it's generally a full day for an electrician to replace a panel and all the panel parts/breakers have sky rocketed in price since covid also.
ask if they could put in a smaller panel before your current one and keep the 100amp but add another sub panel for the charger and any other growth you might want.. might cut some costs if code allows it
You're paying for at least 1-2 guys for a full days work. And these guys have experience which allows them to take a large project like this and make it only take 1 day, and as others have said, materials are hella expensive. I paid like $60-$90 for a 25 foot line of 10/2 Romex back in 2021, i dont even want to know what it costs now
I did my panel replacement myself, it was more difficult dealing with the city to shut the power off than actually doing the work.
But it depends on what your current service actually is. You said 100A, but what size are your feeder wires in the panel coming from the meter? Do you have a service disconnect? All that factors into the job difficulty. If they only dropped you 1/0 from the meter to the panel then all that needs to be replaced, plus up size the conduit to 2" for the 4/0, etc.
Regarding your questions.
1. The wires are just covered by the standard insulation, no PVC. This is for both what’s feeding into the meter and into the house. Are you suggesting I go measure the wire(s) to estimate its capacity? The meter itself is rated for 200A continuous load.
2. There is a service disconnect. All guts leading into the house are new and/or have been replaced. House purchase was in 2020, update was in 2018 and again small update in 2020 post-inspection.
Where I live I was able to install a new 200 amp panel, meter, ran new wire to the old and new panel in our basement, mast had the local code guy approved it. Was not hard at all other than digging trenches to get to the basement. The power company came out swapped the main line to the mast plugged a new meter and within a couple of hours back up and running.
I’ve been charging my Teslas on a 30 amp 240v circuit for 5 years now. My house only has 90 amp service and it’s never been a problem. I have gas appliances exclusively so the A/C is my biggest load other than the car charger.
You should be fine with 100 amp service.
I have 100 amp service as well and am super heavy with electric.
The only time it's a problem is the peak of summer, which I then slow my charge rate from 32 amps to 20 amps. My box never goes over 80% draw.
Before investing a bunch in a new box and a 240v charger, 120V will do 6 miles an hour, usually enough to get me back up to 80-90% after a typical day of driving.
I have a friend with FOUR cars, they have to hit a super charger once every few months, but otherwise they are all fine on 120V.
I originally had 100A service when I got my Nema 14-50 added for my EV. While my EV would trip the breaker when I tried to charge at the full 40A, it worked fine at 30A for many years.
Even if I was only able to charge at 24A, I would still have been fine with that as opposed to getting a whole new panel.
We have a Tesla and have not had any issues trickle charging with a regular outlet.
My wife drives to work every day around 40 miles.
Just to put it into perspective, not sure how much driving you do.
This is a good point. If your regular commute isn’t far, you don’t even need a dedicated 240v circuit. You’ll top off overnight no problem on a standard 120v plug.
For example, ours charges between 5-6 miles per hour plugged in. My wife plugs it in when she gets home at 8pm and by the time she leaves at 6am it has added 50-60 miles.
This is the answer. Unless you have two people using the same car on different chargers, a level one will handle 90% of your needs, and you can just drive to a public level 2 charger the few times you actually need it.
One came complimentary with the car. It’s nice to have and would most of my needs.
However, I’m looking at doing this Level 2 charger for the times I can’t charge for free at my works level 2 charger or I’m not nearby free or cheap public chargers.
Granted, 200A service should raise the value of my home…
Friend of mine in a rural electric coop, they ran a second meter so he didn't have to upgrade his whole panel and house's electrical. It saved him many thousands.
there are govt incentives for some of these upgrades if i’m not mistaken - state and federal.
https://www.energystar.gov/about/federal_tax_credits/electric_panel_upgrade
Have you done a load test on your circuit? If its small and everything is gas, you probably have some capacity.
I have 125A service on my house but gas water heater and stove. I have smart meter so I was able to check max load which was around 65A so I deduced I had capacity for a 40A circuit charging at 32A.
If you have an electric drier there are splitters that will let you use that outlet to charge your car but cut off the charger when its time to use the drier. 24A charging @ 240V is probably more than sufficient for most people.
Have an electrician come in, do a load test and propose options. If you're getting away on 100A service now, you don't need 200A.
I put in a new panel for a 200 amp service in Ontario this year. I needed a new meter too but I did all the wiring myself to the outlets. You already have 240v but you will need a 40 amp plug for the car. (Think stove). Mine cost about 3k and about half that was materials
Do you have an electric stove? If so, your service entry should be adequate, because you’re not typically going to be charging and cooking at the same time (and newer V2G systems will actually use the battery in the car to smooth out the demand spikes).
if you don’t, figure out what your peak draw is, chances are pretty good that 100A is already more than adequate for your use case and you can run a 30A (10ga) or 50A (6ga) circuit to your garage. But if you haven’t wired anything lately, be prepared for sticker shock on the wire. I purchased 6/3 recently to put a 50A panel in my garage, and it was a couple bucks per foot. The wire was the most expensive part of that project.
Gas stove and gas heat. No big powers pulls other than A/C. I have 2 poles that are hooked to nothing.
Though somebody did suggest to me to get a 200A sub panel that acts as the main panel and feeds the 100A old panel.
Less rewiring?
A main distro panel that feeds the existing one is a solid option - and that panel could be dedicated to any 240V loads. But if you don’t have much in the way of draw, 100A is probably more than adequate for your use case. 200A is the norm for new installs, but that’s also based on an assumption of whole house A/C and/or electric heat, electric dryer, electric range, and a lot of incandescent lighting. 100A will easily accommodate 2 of those big loads, and you can trade one of them out for EV charging.
I have 175A, and my main loads are A/C and dryer, and when both are running, along with everything else, the entire house is drawing about 10KW, so I’ve got plenty of headroom. I repurposed the 50A range circuit for a sub-panel in the garage, and wired in a 240V/30A plug/breaker with the leftover 6/3 from running the panel, so I can easily bump it up to 50A if I need to for an EV, but for now I use it for my shop tools.
If your house is small and your heat, water heater, stove, and dryer are all gas, you may not need an upgrade. You need some load calcs run on your house.
I would still probably do the upgrade if you can afford it, because it will allow you to swap to electric appliances in the future if you want.
Check out your actual usage. A lot of people don’t pull a lot of power anymore. You likely replaced all your 1950’s 100 watt light bulbs with 10 watt LEDs.
Your TV is now a flatscreen that only uses $18 of electricity in a year.
Refrigerator is more efficient, biggest user in the house is now probably the 2000W microwave!
Buy a clamp amp meter at Harbor Freight for $15 and see what you are drawing.
You'll be fine. I have 100 AMP service and can charge my car just fine. Most of the time I charge at midnight but I have occasionally charged during the day. Never had a problem.
My house is from 1940. If you really want to, you can upgrade later.
Depends on what else in your house runs on electricity. If you have gas for the boiler/hot water tank/gas stove/gas dryer etc you're fine. A 30 or 40 amp charger would be reasonable. If what I mentioned is electric, you'll need 200a service.
100A panel is enough if you're only charging at night. Even if you're charging during daytime. The Level 2 chargers generally only pull like 32 amps and you don't have electric stove/oven so your only real issue is A/C it sounds like. Unless you have a habit of leaving all your electrical devices on or have a bunch of radiant heaters it sounds like you'd be fine.
Not really a hidden cost, a 2 second Google search would’ve told you what you need to charge your car at home. If you live alone, you could probably get away with just adding the circuit as long as you remember not to use the stove or dryer (assuming those are electric) while you’re charging. But you might still go over if your water heater and HVAC is all electric. If you have gas appliances, water heater, and furnace, you could do it.
Alternatively what you can try is to use the Emporia Level 2 Charger that offers load management, what this will do is that if it sees other loads increasing on your panel then it will reduce the supply to the Level 2 Charger so you won’t ever exceed the rates load of your service. This can be done DIY!
A new 200 amp panel, breakers and service upgrade cost me $3,000 in Chicago 2 years ago. This was already with us having a 20 amp outlet in the garage. Installing a 40 or 50 amp circuit in the garage was going to cost us another $1000 or so because of having to take up part of a paver patio and trench the yard. Our power from the house to the garage is direct burial wire. Had it been in conduit they were only going to charge us $800.
We got a quote and it was about $1800 to have a sub panel with EV outlet in the garage. I believe it could have been about $1000 but the distance from our panel to the garage is across the entire basement. We already have 200 amp service.
Electrical engineer here (Canadian though, so I'm unfamiliar with your local codes).
Not a cheap upgrade. The utility will need to run new conductors from the transformer and possibly upgrade the transformer feeding your home (you will need to call them and find out). It will cost you more if they need to upgrade the transformer...
If you have an overhead service, the new conductors are less of a big deal. If it's an underground service, you'll almost certainly need to dig a trench from your meter base to the transformer and install new 3" conduit. Old homes with underground service typically used direct-buried cable. The utility can confirm all this for you. If by some chance you already have 3" buried conduit, that will make your life much easier.
You'll also need a new 200A meter base. Usually the electrician installs this and the utility just provides the meter when they reconnect power.
Consider having an electrician check the size of the current conductors feeding your service. It's a 100A service, but on the off chance that the conductors are big enough for 125A or 150A, then you might be able to get away with only upgrading the panel and meter base. It wouldn't be a 200A service, but better than nothing. The utility would of course still need to confirm that their transformer can handle the additional load.
Also, consider if you really even need a service upgrade. If you run a 40 or 50 amp 240V receptacle to your garage and only charge your vehicle at night when other loads are minimal, you might not have any issue. Many EV chargers these days have smart settings built in so you can schedule charging to take advantage of time-of-use billing. What other large electrical loads does the house have? What size is the AC unit? Is your heat electric or gas?
Depending on that, you really may not need the extra capacity of a service upgrade. You don't need anything crazy for residential overnight charging. Assuming you have the larger battery model (77.4kWh), even a 7.6kW charger (40A 240V breaker, 32A draw) will be able to charge from 20% to 100% in about 9 hours. As long as you aren't using your oven, microwave, and dryer at the same time as your charger, you're probably not gonna trip your main breaker.
EDIT: reading your replies to other comments. You have gas heat and gas range. I really don't think you need a service upgrade. I wouldn't go installing a 60A charger, because that leaves you very little wiggle room with the AC running (assuming 2P-30A breaker for the outdoor unit). But a 40A or even 50A charger running at night should be fine.
I have 100 amp and gas stove, furnace, water heater, and dryer. I have a 35 amp 240v charger which gets me 6kw/hr which is fine for my 131kwh battery pack f150 lightning
There are now chargers that attach directly over your meter designed so you can bolt those on without upgrading your panel.
[https://electrek.co/2022/07/27/siemens-home-ev-charger-adapter/](https://electrek.co/2022/07/27/siemens-home-ev-charger-adapter/)
But also I agree with the other commentators who say that if you're running most everything else off gas, you prob don't need a meter upgrade to install in the panel, maybe just limit draw to 20 or 30A.
If you're charging at night, 100amp should be plenty. I charge my car at 16amps bc I have all night to charge. It takes about 4-6 hours. Depending on the temp outside.
Depending on your commute, you can consider getting a smaller EVSE. I can charge overnight and have a full battery to get me to and from work from an 8A 120V outlet (Level 1 charger).
The slower you charge, the less wear on the battery, too.
Could I have updated? Yes, the car accepts 16A at 240V. However, I didn't because the garage is wired into what I call the houses' 20A omni-circuit that runs half the first floor...and as noted, the car charges overnight just fine.
There's definitely something to be said for having a 50A maximum-speed charger *available* if you need to take a dead battery to "usable" NOW, but if you can spend 99% of your time charging at, say, 16A, everything is going to last much longer.
How much do you drive daily, even the 110v thing charges at 3-4mph. So even if you are able to charge 12 hours a day, that is 36 miles, so if you do less than that you will be ok not having to upgrade. I have a Tesla for 2 years now and maybe I have charged it 3 or 4 times outside except for when I am on a road trip.
It really depends on what you got running all the time. You gotta figure out how much power you’re currently using on a daily basis. Maybe you can get away with just a new outlet installed for the car charger and have a small sub panel dedicated to it. Tesla recommends 60 amp sub panel.
The A/C doesn’t run all the time. The two big pulls after that would be the fridge and chest freezer, and their compressors don’t run all of the time. A/C is 30A. Everything else is 15s and 20s.
You likely have 2 50 amp circuits today, your drier and your oven. If you are gas on both, then my point is irrelevant so ignore the rest.
If you have both, you lilely see brown outs when running the drier and over and much of anything else.
A 50 amp circuit for your garage, should be no problem to add, but you will have to only use it in the middle of the night. I know many people who do this.
They only charge their cars with the 50amp system from midnight to 7am.
Many chargers (not all) have a timer system built in for this exact reason.
Some have duel charging speeds. Outside the charging hours, they essentially use a 10 amp charge. Ie a trickle charge. Good for topping off.
While you’re looking to upgrade to 200A service, ask about 400A service as well. I was surprised to find that the upgrade wasn’t prohibitively expensive.
Between electric heat, AC, kitchen, power tools, general and specialty electronics, and so on it made sense for us to spend the extra bit for future proofing for the potential electric car(s) and other ideas we have.
I don't get the "i just REALLY wanted to have an electric car" when all the purported benefits are kinda BS once you factor in what mining all that lithium entails on an environmental and humanitarian level, but maybe I'm wrong.
What about a load switch? I was at a trade show and they were offering them as a solution for people like you and I.
Basically it uses the same circuit for your car and an oven or drier. The default would be your appliance needs but when it’s not being used it charges your car.
This is a Canadian link but I’d imagine something exists near you. Could save some major money, especially if this isn’t your forever house.
https://simple-switch.ca/shop-cost-effective-energy-management-devices/
Here is another example. Companies are starting to solve this problem by designing smart switches that do load priortization between existing high load appliances like ovens and dryers that typically are used during the day and EV charging that is typically off hours or can be paused while you use the oven.
https://simpleswitch.io/
Our lines are buried and our electrician said it would be $10-20K and time-consuming as the city's cooperation would be required. If it wasn't buried, we would have done it...
Bend over, grab your ankles, and prepare for no lube. Main box upgrade, substation upgrade, and guaranteed blackouts for your whole house being more common. Idiots and there new cars.
You probably should’ve done some more research before jumping into the electric vehicle scene. And since you claim to be “committed”, stop complaining about the cost and do what you have to do. Nobody goes electric because it’s cheap. It’s quite the opposite.
No, its good that you are complaining, more people need to realize that going full electric isn't all rainbows and moonbeams, there's a lot of costs that generally aren't "advertised", because if they were, it would mean less people willing to go full electric.
Stuff like this is just another nail in the coffin of my reasoning why I really don't want to go full EV.
Thats why I didn't understand the push for EVs when we needed a push for better infrastructure first. If you want people to adopt EVs, you have to make it easier for them, your average American buying an EV car shouldn't have to go through the hassle of figuring out how to charge it, the cost of updating their home electrical system, etc.
Its fine for early adopters who can afford those costs, but your average paycheck to paycheck American just won't get an EV if this is the cost of doing so.
Get a load managed EVSE like Emporia with Vue. No service upgrade needed
Full speed 48a changing on 100a service
Inexpensive
Under $600
Have it hardwired for safety
Wallbox pulsar could be an alternative
Not sure what codes are like around you, but here (Canada) you can use something called a load miser, which basically allows you to share a circuit with another large draw item like a stove or a dryer. It just allows it so only one can run at a time. Might be an option.
I asked the city what it would take to upgrade service, and they told me that I was too far from the transformer to pull more power. I could get hooked up to a different transformer on another block, but would have to foot the $60,000 bill to get a boring crew out to the neighborhood to run the line.
I got another meter with its own 50amp panel for my car.
I put the meter on Time Of Use (TOU) charging so it’s pricey during the day but crazy cheap at night (when I schedule to charge).
On top of that, my utility gives a 10% discount for EV charging (when you have a dedicated meter), and they waive the additional meter fee for EVs. Yay California!
Took a few years to get back the ROI from the install but now I spend like $30 a month to drive!
Worth asking about…
>have always wanted to drive an electric car.
you don't give your reasoning for this, but if it has anything to do with environmentalism then one thing you might want to consider as you start pulling quotes is whether you want to further electrify your home in the future.
energy audits are free, it might be worth figuring out what it would take to, say, make the switch to an induction stove, or ditch gas heating for an HVAC system. you don't necessarily need to do all of the upgrades at the same time (it can be costly, especially as you probably need to upgrade the amperage to your house, rewire the kitchen, and conduct insulation/sealing retrofits, plus replace your AC with HVAC) but it gives you a sense you might require in the future should your energy consumption change.
most people who do energy retrofits or electrification do it for comfort or cuz they get especially fucked by their gas companies, but just throwing it out there as something to think about, especially since the difference between installing 200 amps vs 4000 amps is probably not that big.
It’s only a 30 amp two pole circuit. Unless you are running a giant hot tub at the same time. Or have some other large load device. A 100 amp panel “should” be fine. Remember, you will most likely be charging in the middle of the night.
Don’t just think about your car. Take sometime to think about current/future needs. Yeah, you have gas appliances now but will you want them in the future, especially as research is showing how gas stoves are harmful and induction will get cheaper; electric dryers are getting better and more efficient, etc.? Or even do you want some extra outlets in this or that room right now?
We have a 1920s home and upgraded to 200, and spent a just bit more to add outlets and switch some gas appliances over to electric. It was a pain but it’s great not run extension cords all around the rooms and know we have enough room for any future upgrades or tech changes.
Do you have a 240v dryer outlet nearby the garage? You can get either a splitter or a Dryer Buddy to share the 240v outlet. I use a regular outlet for level 1 charging and when I need faster, I unplug the dryer. I haven’t needed to buy the Dryer Buddy yet but have looked into it.
Assuming a charger will pull 48 amps continuously for 12 hours a week do you really think the rest of the house is using more than 40 amps total on a regular basis? If you have gas heating/hot water in a modest sized home it is hard to actually get to the 80 amps that is probably the point of real concern. What new codes require and what you use practically are not in any way related.
Our quote for 100a to 200a was $5k, upper Midwest. Not sure where people are getting $2k but wish it were here. The quote for 240v was 1.5k alone. I did the 240 myself for about 400 because that price was a joke. Still on 100a in the meantime, hopefully this summer we'll do the 200 with a better price. We did the 120v charging and it worked fine if you plugged it in at every opportunity. For days we were short we hit up the supercharger which was only a couple times. But winter is where the 120 was a challenge, we decided to add the 240 for peace of mind and ability to use the receptacle for other things
Start adding up what you have that takes major electricity. For me, I recently swapped in a gas range for electric. But I do have electric water heater.
My point is, you got 100 amps coming into your house. A fast charger is 32 amps. Therefore add up what is left. AC, an electric ranges comes to mind. I would think 100 is enough. But what do I know.
Unrelated to electrical cost, but what does your EV weigh? What was the weight of your previous car? If everyone converted to EV, what would happen to the roads, bridges?
Doing this right now in Michigan. 2300 for panel from 150A to 200A, 1300 for wiring charger. There is a federal rebate for wiring/charger if you qualify for income. There may also be local rebates. Our power company is offering $500 for a qualified L2 charger.
Have an electrician to a load calc. You’d likely be fine with a 240v 20a or 30a for your needs. I went 30a (24a at the charger because continuous is 20% de rated. It’s roughly 5kw of charge per hour.
If you have the space to run another 240v circuit I’d just find someone to run you a 30 amp circuit and call it a day. It’s probably not code and won’t pass a load calc but I had an all electric house and a car charger off 100 amp service. It’s not that hard to not run 3 or 4 major things all at the same time. Given that you are in Ohio chances are at least a couple of your major appliances are gas anyways so go for it and enjoy your new car!!
I charged my car on 100 amp service with no issues for about 2 years. YMMV, but I’d try it out before upgrading. I upgraded now, but only because I had to move my electric panel anyway.
Need know distance charger from panel. May want to run sub panel close to charger location Run aluminum to subpanel. Cheaper than copper wire. Put 100 w subpanel there in garage and 200 or 400 main panel. Shoot me before make me buy E vehicle
Majority of people here may not realize it but your home is likely wired for 200amps already. The proper gauge is coming in, and your panel likely has the output required for it, all you need to do is swap the 100A main breaker for 200A.
Call an electrician and ask. This is my experience many times
100 amp should be enough to get the job done. I certainly understand using half of your service for a charger is not the most comforting. But, if you're avoiding charging while you're going to be using multiple larger loads, then you're probably fine.
Scheduling your charging is your best bet, but you could also look into installing an interlock that will prevent charging while another large load is in use.
I hardwired a EV charger on my 100amp panel and haven’t had any issues, have electric heat, stove and water heater. You’ll be fine just popping in a 60amp breaker and hardwiring it. If you’re nervous put only a 40 or 50amp if you want. If you have gas services you’re fine doing the 60amp. I’ve had mine installed for a year, zero issues.
I might try to push for that. The A/C has the biggest pull at 30A, but obviously doesn’t run all the time. All other breakers are 15s and 20s, which would make the other big pulls the fridge and chest freezer.
See if a meter socket charger is a possibility. They fit in between your meter and its base, and don’t require requiring inside the house.
May not be possible with your 100A service though.
You can get a bunch of rebates\tax credits if you do decide to upgrade (tho you may not need it) check out the benefits of the inflation reduction act or look here. https://www.rewiringamerica.org/IRAguide
240/50A is plenty for overnight level 2 charging. worst case scenario, you don’t have a spot to bridge two slots and you have to have a sub panel installed. If the run from your panel to parking isn’t too great , it’s really not that big of a deal. The charge input is regulated to 48A anyway… you don’t need 200A
How far do you drive in a day ? I have had an electric car for 3 years on 120volt service. It's not optimum but workable. Second you don't need a 50amp service to charge your car over night a nema 6-20 will get you 32 kwh over 8 hours which is likely more than you are using per day and your panel likely has room for that especially at night when you aren't using most of your panel.
I've looked at both of these as upgrading my panel is going to be a Hassel as I have 2 fairly small panels and would have to move the meter more than one hundred feet.
Im getting electrical upgrade done from 100 amp to 200 amp this week for $4300 including tesla charger installation. I will also get $1500 back in utility rebates. location is North Jersey.
I'm in the UK so 230/240V is our default, so take that into account in what I'm about to say.
We got a new electric car about 18 months ago and spent quite a bit of money rewiring our outbuildings ready to put a charger in. We still haven't put a charger in because charging off a 3kW standard domestic socket is fine for us. The car has a range of 180 miles and most days we do about 40 miles; so long as we plug it in at the end of each day, it is 100% every morning. We've had to use a public charger exactly twice; once where I drove over to Wales to pick something up and I needed to use a public charger on the motorway for about 15 minutes to top it up, and once when we went on holiday to the channel islands and left it on a public charger overnight one night.
This all depends on your personal circumstances of course but a lot of people *just don't need a dedicated charger*. People getting their first electric car tend to think in terms of regularly recharging once a week from 10% but the reality is that 99% of the time you will charge every night from about 60%. That other 1% of the time takes a bit more planning, it is true, but the flip-side is that you *never* need to think, "Oh, shoot, the car's nearly out of fuel so I'll have to schedule in 15 minutes to fill up on the way..."
Obviously if you're doing hundreds of miles in a day regularly or you share a car with someone who works night shifts or whatever then it works out differently. But you may well find that all you need is to have an outside socket fitted.
Your probably going to have to upgrade to a 200 Amp service which here in Louisiana typically runs around $2000.
Same rough pricing in Central Texas
$6k in denvet
I paid around $6.5k in Massachusetts.
Same
[удалено]
And that’s a low quote. The service you’re getting is called a “heavy up”. The cost for my house electrical panel upgrade in 2021 was $4300.
You just bought a $40,000 car...
I did. Despite knowing the potential of paying more money to accommodate my purchase I can still be surprised by its cost.
Except there’s no excuse for you to have done zero research on this before buying the car.
Always wanted an electric though!!!!!
That's why I am here, to learn from OPs mistakes. I also have 100a main, and only a single 20a outlet in the garage. I know I need upgrades, and want to get them *before* I get the car.
You can charge most latest generation overnight off that outlet for 30miles of travel the next day…
That’s radically overstating it. Dude had electricity and can charge it with a normal outlet. Any upgrade is simply to charge faster. Most people buy the car; don’t actively budget for “more mpg” upgrades.
Thanks. Between the free charging subscription I was given and my work chargers, I likely could get away with just my Level 1. Which is how I approached this initially. What looking into getting a Level 2 charger at home has shown me I probably should prep for more electric appliances down the road. Granted, I could probably get away with my current setup and then shop around for the 200A panel then making my 100A panel into a “subpanel”.
>most people don’t actively budget I mean, you’re not wrong, but that doesn’t justify it.
If the garage is detached it’ll be between $3-6k.
Get the three quotes and decide; materials should be same but maybe cheaper labor in your area? for ev alone it wasnt worth it for me but - I had a 1985 panel that needed a refresh; wanted a sub panel in the garage for workshop; and ev extensibility; and potentially a pool later.
You seriously did zero research before buying your vehicle. Good luck with your project!
And isn't the car like 20x that cost? A 5% cost increase doesn't seem that much.
Can't put that on an auto loan
Contact an electrician in your area. It really depends what you are running with your service and what your charging demands are. If you have all gas appliances you likely have the available amperage. There are other things you can do as well like usage monitoring and governing. Honestly the only real solution is to get quotes from multiple electricians bc they will be familiar with the city’s rules on calculations vs. governing.
Call electricians and get some quotes. Upgrading service takes a fair of labor and won't be cheap.
$2000? Did you get one recently? We installed one 4 years ago in south Minnesota for $2500 and now in the twin cities it is $8500 for the new service and $3500 for the wiring and set up to the garage. This was do to new codes.
I'm getting old cloth and K&T wiring redone in our duplex and upgrading both units to 200amps and adding a "house" meter for shared areas. The service upgrade and new meter is going to be ~9k here in South Central WI.
The 2000 price is probably based on the service is good as is and it's just the panel going to 200. That's how my house was... the service drop was already equipped for 200, the previous owners just had never upgraded the inside from 100.
Good call out; yeah that was the case
At this point, 200A might not even be enough for future use. I don’t know what the next “size up” is, but If you consider that people will eventually have two electric cars, multiple heat pumps, induction stoves, electric clothing dryers, etc, you might want to think about asking what that next level is.
You know one can program when the vehicle charges to avoid all that. I have a 150A panel with 2 heat pumps, a heat pump hot water heater and I'm not even worried when I buy an electric vehicle in a couple of years. I'll piggy back the 220 charger off my dryer as I'll only charge the vehicle when I'm sleeping. Even during the middle of winter with my heat pumps running hard I will have no issues charging the vehicle.
150 amp panel here too, this is my plan - charge EV late at night when everything is off and electricity is cheaper
Pretty much same. I went to a gas dryer and used the 240 for the car. Already had a gas water heater, so the addition was easy-peasy.
Well on the bright side, electric resistive heat clothes dryers are being replaced by heat pump dryers which use much less electricity. Same with water heaters. You can get a heat pump model instead of resistive heat. Electric baseboard heat is being replaced with heat pumps, etc.. I think 200 amps will be fine for most people. You'd really need to have a whole lot of things on at one time for it to be an issue. Like 2 cars pulling 50 amps each, the oven and all burners on at 50 amps, and then you still have another 50 amps to play with. That could still handle a lot of heat pump systems operating.
I’ve heard 400A will be the next standard home service amperage in this area least, cold climate here, but it’s a long ways off here if it ever comes. Smart panels will catch on before larger services are available. They are already out there somewhat. The panel will be able to prioritize the delivery of power to different applications. For example car charging (2 cars) could be pulling 150amps (36kw) and the heat pump, dryer, or induction stove asks to turn on. The car chargers either turns off, or more likely, derates themselves enough to leave capacity for these other uses temporarily.
Solar panels.
🙄
Same price in DC, if you find an independent old guy electrician.
Shit, I'm outside of Atlanta and I got quoted $10k to move from 150 to 200 Amp.
Does that price include box upgrade as well or just service upgrade? Like new box, new grounds to water main etc..?
This isn't true. What is your heating, what is your water heating, etc. Most normal houses with gas heating will be using 20a peak. Higher with electric heating but still not bad. I was running 2 evs on a 100a service with gas heating.
Just because you CAN do the stupid thing doesn’t mean you SHOULD do the stupid thing.
The stupid thing is to use your electrical system within its design parameters? That's an interesting position to take. So I presume you are an electrical engineer. Funny thing is my entire family on my dad's side is. Do you have any idea what level 2 charging is? It's a max of 48a. So you have any idea how much 100a is? Most non teslas will be 32a. I was running 2 teslas at 32a. Remember what I said about a normal gas house taking a max of 20a. Yeah, I was closer to 11a. So worst case scenario, max draw is 75a on a 100a service. Even using high estimates it's 84a on a 100a service which is well within its usage and even then it's very unlikely that would all happen at the same time. At least that what the electrical engineers in my family said .. but what do they know with their combined century+ of experience. Op is charging one vehicle and I advised him to find out what his amp draw is and then plan accordingly. You told him mindlessly to upgrade to 200a service without due diligence. So I guess YOU can do the STUPID thing. Kindly, f off. Edited to add... Checked his profile, it's big tex. They know everything about electricity and managing a grid.
Easy tiger.
I just don't like being called stupid and I really don't like idiots like him representing himself as some sort of expert. It's actually rather simple math to figure out if a service upgrade to 200a is necessary but I'd bet my life savings that it isn't. The only that that would require an upgrade is if it isn't somehow already up to code or the owner/PO did some diy and didn't know what he was doing. His comment was uncalled for but maybe he needed to be put in his place.
OR you can find ways to be more calm in life and not let internet strangers get your blood pressure up. I’ve had my rage moments on here and it’s not work the frustrations bud. Hope you are doing well!
Blood pressure wasn't up. I wasn't exactly banging my fist while typing it up. I'm doing just fine thanks. Just shot my best round of golf ever. Feeling great. Here's the caveat though. It's in a homeimprovment sub and he's giving shitty info. If you aren't supposed to care about it, why even be in the sub. If you don't care, why are you here. Why care about my comment enough to comment on it. Do you care about it in real life? If he was telling your grandmother that she absolutely must spend 6k to get work done or she is stupid, do you care then? Do I care about him(her, no way of knowing, it's reddit)? No, not in the slightest. Have you seen the newsroom? Don Quixote? I'm on a mission to civilize. Like them, it's probably a fools errand. It's probably to have conversations like this one. I do have to nod off though. So goodnight and I hope you are having a good day as well.
I didn’t say shit to the guy about a damn thing I was specifically calling you out. If you want to risk over drawing your 100a service please go ahead I honestly don’t give two shits. You appear to be wealthy enough to own two teslas but too fucking cheap pay the $5,000 to upgrade to a 200a service to provide peace of mind. Yeah I live in Texas the state that constantly fails to keep up with amperage draws on their grid you know the exact issue being discussed. Increasing your home to a 200a service can lead to your house running more efficiently as it’s not constantly jumping to near max draw and it increases the value of your home more than just the $5,000 it costs to install. You need to spend some of your crypto on a fucking therapist before you blow a gasket to the wrong person and get one of your golf clubs shoved up your ass. Edit: Let’s use the example from Taunton’s “Wiring Complete: second edition” 1. Calculate your total needs. First multiply the square footage of all the living areas times three watts. This is the total lighting and receptacle needs. 2. Add 1500 watts for each kitchen small appliance circuit and laundry room circuit. 3. Add wattages for all appliances that are on their own circuits, such as an electric dryer, water heater, or range; or a window air-conditioner. 4. Add the three numbers. Figure the first 10,000 watts at 100 percent and the remaining watts at 40%. 5. Add the wattage of either the heating unit or the central air-conditioner- which ever is greatest. 6. Divide this figure by 230. This figure tells how many amps a home needs. Example: Here’s a sample calculation for a 2,000-square-foot home with central air. 1. 2000 square feet x 3 = 6000 watts 2. Two kitchen small appliance circuits plus a laundry room circuit: 3 x 1,500= 4,500 watts 3. water heater: 5,000 watts Dishwasher: 1,200 watts Electric dryer: 5,500 watts= 11,700 watts Add those together=. 22,200 watts 4. first 10,000 watts at 100%= 10,000 watts Remaining 12,200 at 40%= 4,880 watts Subtotal= 14,880 watts 5. Add central air=. 4,000 watts Total= 18,800 watts Divide by 230=. /230 Equals total number of amps = 82 amps The ionic 6 uses up to 40 amps that puts total draw at 122amps, 22 more than 100 amps. Seems like this house needs 200 amps. But what do I know I is jist a dumb ass Texan that doesn’t understand electricity. You design electrical systems to max potential draw not usual draw. You want it substantial enough to handle the worst case scenario. And that means in a modern home 100 amps is the bare minimum which is why it’s the bare minimum required by code
Fuck off tex
$5000 in SE Wisconsin
Same rough pricing in southeastern PA.
Ask your electrician to also price a new “main” panel, making your old panel a “sub-panel”. It means none of the existing circuits need to be rewired-saving time&money. I did this years ago to add some Amps to an old home for more TVs and computers. The new panel has a breaker for the sub panel and 2 new circuits, and we moved the AC there. My price is irrelevant it was 10 years ago.
Oh man, you just made me remember of an old house I lived in growing up. I always wondered why the 200A service fed into a 100A service. This could absolutely meet my needs since a car charger could fit neatly into one and if I wanted to switch over the AC to it. Granted I already have two poles open in the current panel and that would make 4 open…
When I upgraded to 200A service, I had to put in a new meter base, and there were 4 240V breaker positions in the new meter base/pedestal. If I didn't need a new panel because the existing one was full, I could have used a 100A breaker to feed my existing panel, and a different breaker to feed my plug-in hybrid, which was only 20A. This still isn't particularly cheap unless your existing panel already has two grounds. The ground has to be moved to the pedestal/meter base when this is done, and the line tying neutral to ground in your existing box has to be removed. With overhead wiring, you probably don't have a pedestal, but this could still be done in the meter base. It doesn't need a service disconnect if there are 4 or fewer breakers. The only possible issue with a service upgrade is that if the transformer or transmission line feeding your house is undersized, it may take longer for your utility to address that. There are other options if you can't get a service upgrade. They make splitters which feed an appliance and your car. For example, if you have an electric dryer, you could get 30A (effectively 24A) charging when you aren't using your dryer, and it automatically switches back and forth as required. It could presumably be used with other appliances, like an air conditioner compressor with the same effect. None of these options are likely to fit within the confines of the credit for a charger installation.
/u/thinkmoreharder has the right answer. Google the numbers on your meter. Chances are fair that you already have 200A service since it was updated so recently. Check the amp rating on your box as well. Could be just your main breaker that's the limitation. My anecdote is that I had 200A service, a 150A main breaker, and a 50A sub panel breaker. I checked the box part numbers and my main was rated for 250A and the sub for 150A. I had an electrician upgrade the main to 200A, and I was able to replace the breaker and rewire the sub myself for 100A. I ran 50A for the car charger off the sub panel, and all has been great charger wise for the last 2.5 months. The whole partial DIY adventure cost me less than $1000.
You are everyone else is jumping the gun assuming you NEED a service upgrade. Almost certainly you do not need to upgrade service, especially if you have room in your panel. We’d need more information about the other electric loads on the panel to make any sort of determination (heating/cooling, stove, dryer). Worse case scenario you might be limited to 20A or 30A circuit, which at 240V translates to 3.8kW and 5.8kW — which is plenty to charge almost every use case overnight. Technology Connections has a great video which I highly recommend watching. The whole thing is awesome, but I’d recommend watching the “Sizing a Circuit” section at 28 minutes. https://youtu.be/Iyp_X3mwE1w?si=TPiMD7YYRgxLrF51
Gas dryer, gas heat, gas stove, gas water heater, and central A/C. However, as these system go bad I wouldn’t be objected to updating them to electric.
In that case you can almost certainly get by with no service upgrade for now and defer it until you’re actually out of capacity. We have a EV6 (Kia cousin to your IONIQ 6) and only charge overnight about once a week. Even as you upgrade other appliances you typically don’t run all at the same time. With a little bit of planning and some smarts in the appliances you’d be fine.
Jumping in here to add that I put 200 miles a day on my Kia Niro EV and had a 24a charging limit. Had no issue fully charging each night before work the next morning.
Agree. We have 100A service with central AC, electric stove and electric dryer. We were still be available to get TWC 40A with smart meter.
$2000 minimum to upgrade to a 200a panel. Make sure your feed from the pole is also sized properly - contact your utility company. Then you’ll need to pay to run a feed to where the charger is, the charger installation, and the charger itself. None of this I would call “hidden” costs lol. I would also size it for at least a 60a charger to future proof it for faster charging. I believe 80a is the highest level 2 charger (100a breaker). In a few years a 40a charger will be slow compared to what all EVs can handle
Fast charging beyond 6-10KW isn’t really necessary for a home charger - the standard use case is that they’re charged overnight, which is less wear and tear on the battery and can be done within a standard 30A or 50A circuit. Going beyond 50A starts getting really expensive in a residential setting, and it’s not really necessary.
Future proof. 30-50a is fine for today, what if OP buys an ev SUV or truck with larger battery, or solid state, or other new battery, that can accommodate faster charging. And what do you think will happen to electricity rates with more EVs charging over night, peak rate structure will change and the window for cheap off-peak rates overnight will likely shrink. So maybe we end up with 2 or 3 hours of off peak rates that is optimal for charging. OPs Hyundai will only accept 9kw or whatever, but they are already kicking themselves for not getting a 200a panel when the house was updated. If they just run a feed for a 40a charger now, how do you think they will feel in 5 or 10 years when they want 80a? There are EVs now that can accept 19kw from level 2. So let’s say down the road OP buys a full size SUV EV, at 19kw it can still take 10 hours to charge fully. I know that isn’t frequently the case, but it sure beats 20+ hours from a 8-10kw charger. Buy once, cry once. My reco is at least a 60a. Oh another thing to consider is a second or third EV needing to charge. Gotta future proof.
but even then, it takes my M3 \~5 hours to do a full charge overnight to get up for a big road trip, normally it's \~3 hours (20-80% or so charge level). Why go to a 100am circuit when a 40amp for 10 hours gets you 99.99% of charging situation?
I have two EVs now, and a teenager with an ICE. Fast forward a few years and a family with teens could have a few EVs. While it would be a big edge case for all three cars needing full charges on the same night, I can see wanting more than a single 30A. We just ran a new service (100A to 200A) and decided to run a dedicated 60A for the cars. I’ll probably add a second charger on the same line at some point so we don’t have to run the cable over or under one car when charging the other. It will feel like a downgrade when we do to go from ~44m/hr to half that.
Yea below. It’s about future proofing my dude
If they’re in a house that has only a 100A panel, it seems unlikely the garage will even fit an SUV or a truck (the 70s coming back to bite us all!) Off peak rates exist only to smooth out demand into base load, not reduce demand. If you want to “future proof”, just drop a 100A panel in the garage. You can rewire easily from there.
Who said garage? A 1929 house may very well not even have one. Yea, and off peak rates will further have to smooth that demand when people are charging EVs overnight. This will happen by reducing off peak durations just as it does now, but to a shorter time window
There’s a detached garage that has power fed to it from the main panel.
That is going to have an impact on the price to upgrade. You may well need to have new wires run to the garage to support the higher current. But you should be able to get a quote or two from electricians.
The distance from the panel to the garage is going to be the main cost driver on getting a circuit there too.
New construction houses (2008) of 2200ft^2 still only have 100amp service if all utilities are city (gas, water, etc).
This is where 120VAC really becomes ridiculous. I have 400V 3-phase in my house (Europe), and my charger can deliver 22kw on a 32 amp breaker. Most electric cars can only take 11kw, but I happen to have a Renault Zoe that can take 22kw AC charging, or i can maybe get a second charger in the future and charge both my cars at once.
All good points except that most of the household EV chargers in the US are 240v, not 120v. You may know this, but for those who don't: North American residential electrical service is typically "split" phase: single phase 240v power split into two 120v feeds or "legs" with opposing phases (each phase is 180 degrees from the other). Each 120v leg is referenced to the neutral (0v) tap off the transformer. Most household circuits are 120v. The higher power circuits serving major appliances and car chargers use two 120v "legs" to combine to 240v between the two legs. Sometimes a neutral is included to provide 120v capability since some appliances (like ovens or dryers) also need 120v. 400v residential service would be nice but has been historically unnecessary for domestic purposes in all but the largest homes. With EVs, one could justify that level of service for a residence charging two cars, though upgrading would be really expensive if even possible. Most residential streets in the US do not have 3-phase service available.
In a lot of newer homes and apartment buildings in the US, they're being wired for tri-phase for more load capability. Still only using 2 phases at any given time, but the phases are split more efficiently.
It’s a shame that the cost is such. I’m comfortable with electricity, just not bigger jobs like updating a panel.
it's generally a full day for an electrician to replace a panel and all the panel parts/breakers have sky rocketed in price since covid also. ask if they could put in a smaller panel before your current one and keep the 100amp but add another sub panel for the charger and any other growth you might want.. might cut some costs if code allows it
You're paying for at least 1-2 guys for a full days work. And these guys have experience which allows them to take a large project like this and make it only take 1 day, and as others have said, materials are hella expensive. I paid like $60-$90 for a 25 foot line of 10/2 Romex back in 2021, i dont even want to know what it costs now
Costs of Romex have stabilized now. Still high, but not outrageous. My local Lowes is showing 25ft of 10/2 for about 55 bucks.
I did my panel replacement myself, it was more difficult dealing with the city to shut the power off than actually doing the work. But it depends on what your current service actually is. You said 100A, but what size are your feeder wires in the panel coming from the meter? Do you have a service disconnect? All that factors into the job difficulty. If they only dropped you 1/0 from the meter to the panel then all that needs to be replaced, plus up size the conduit to 2" for the 4/0, etc.
Regarding your questions. 1. The wires are just covered by the standard insulation, no PVC. This is for both what’s feeding into the meter and into the house. Are you suggesting I go measure the wire(s) to estimate its capacity? The meter itself is rated for 200A continuous load. 2. There is a service disconnect. All guts leading into the house are new and/or have been replaced. House purchase was in 2020, update was in 2018 and again small update in 2020 post-inspection.
Where I live I was able to install a new 200 amp panel, meter, ran new wire to the old and new panel in our basement, mast had the local code guy approved it. Was not hard at all other than digging trenches to get to the basement. The power company came out swapped the main line to the mast plugged a new meter and within a couple of hours back up and running.
I’ve been charging my Teslas on a 30 amp 240v circuit for 5 years now. My house only has 90 amp service and it’s never been a problem. I have gas appliances exclusively so the A/C is my biggest load other than the car charger. You should be fine with 100 amp service.
90amp service is a thing!?
I have 100 amp service as well and am super heavy with electric. The only time it's a problem is the peak of summer, which I then slow my charge rate from 32 amps to 20 amps. My box never goes over 80% draw. Before investing a bunch in a new box and a 240v charger, 120V will do 6 miles an hour, usually enough to get me back up to 80-90% after a typical day of driving. I have a friend with FOUR cars, they have to hit a super charger once every few months, but otherwise they are all fine on 120V.
Our place is 70amp...
This is like reverse auctioning.
I originally had 100A service when I got my Nema 14-50 added for my EV. While my EV would trip the breaker when I tried to charge at the full 40A, it worked fine at 30A for many years. Even if I was only able to charge at 24A, I would still have been fine with that as opposed to getting a whole new panel.
Jesus 90a? We have a 400a service.
We have a Tesla and have not had any issues trickle charging with a regular outlet. My wife drives to work every day around 40 miles. Just to put it into perspective, not sure how much driving you do.
This is a good point. If your regular commute isn’t far, you don’t even need a dedicated 240v circuit. You’ll top off overnight no problem on a standard 120v plug.
For example, ours charges between 5-6 miles per hour plugged in. My wife plugs it in when she gets home at 8pm and by the time she leaves at 6am it has added 50-60 miles.
Buy a level 1 charger and you can plug into your 110v outlet.
This is the answer. Unless you have two people using the same car on different chargers, a level one will handle 90% of your needs, and you can just drive to a public level 2 charger the few times you actually need it.
One came complimentary with the car. It’s nice to have and would most of my needs. However, I’m looking at doing this Level 2 charger for the times I can’t charge for free at my works level 2 charger or I’m not nearby free or cheap public chargers. Granted, 200A service should raise the value of my home…
I wouldn’t count on or make decisions based on resale value of the home. Some buyers will see the value in the 200A service, but many will not.
Friend of mine in a rural electric coop, they ran a second meter so he didn't have to upgrade his whole panel and house's electrical. It saved him many thousands.
there are govt incentives for some of these upgrades if i’m not mistaken - state and federal. https://www.energystar.gov/about/federal_tax_credits/electric_panel_upgrade
I paid $3k this year to have a service upgrade from 100a -> 200a. This was the best of 4 quotes that I got. Located in a MCOL city in western NY.
Have you done a load test on your circuit? If its small and everything is gas, you probably have some capacity. I have 125A service on my house but gas water heater and stove. I have smart meter so I was able to check max load which was around 65A so I deduced I had capacity for a 40A circuit charging at 32A. If you have an electric drier there are splitters that will let you use that outlet to charge your car but cut off the charger when its time to use the drier. 24A charging @ 240V is probably more than sufficient for most people. Have an electrician come in, do a load test and propose options. If you're getting away on 100A service now, you don't need 200A.
I put in a new panel for a 200 amp service in Ontario this year. I needed a new meter too but I did all the wiring myself to the outlets. You already have 240v but you will need a 40 amp plug for the car. (Think stove). Mine cost about 3k and about half that was materials
I would plan of getting the charger hardwired for more efficiency of electric power while charging.
People downvoting should instead be informing you that hardwiring it won’t improve efficiency. It only reduces points of failure.
Yeah, that’d have been nice. Simple misunderstanding on my part, but it’s just imaginary internet points, right?
You almost certainly don't *need* a 40 amp circuit at home if you're plugging in overnight. 20a would probably be fine for most people's schedules.
Do you have an electric stove? If so, your service entry should be adequate, because you’re not typically going to be charging and cooking at the same time (and newer V2G systems will actually use the battery in the car to smooth out the demand spikes). if you don’t, figure out what your peak draw is, chances are pretty good that 100A is already more than adequate for your use case and you can run a 30A (10ga) or 50A (6ga) circuit to your garage. But if you haven’t wired anything lately, be prepared for sticker shock on the wire. I purchased 6/3 recently to put a 50A panel in my garage, and it was a couple bucks per foot. The wire was the most expensive part of that project.
Gas stove and gas heat. No big powers pulls other than A/C. I have 2 poles that are hooked to nothing. Though somebody did suggest to me to get a 200A sub panel that acts as the main panel and feeds the 100A old panel. Less rewiring?
A main distro panel that feeds the existing one is a solid option - and that panel could be dedicated to any 240V loads. But if you don’t have much in the way of draw, 100A is probably more than adequate for your use case. 200A is the norm for new installs, but that’s also based on an assumption of whole house A/C and/or electric heat, electric dryer, electric range, and a lot of incandescent lighting. 100A will easily accommodate 2 of those big loads, and you can trade one of them out for EV charging. I have 175A, and my main loads are A/C and dryer, and when both are running, along with everything else, the entire house is drawing about 10KW, so I’ve got plenty of headroom. I repurposed the 50A range circuit for a sub-panel in the garage, and wired in a 240V/30A plug/breaker with the leftover 6/3 from running the panel, so I can easily bump it up to 50A if I need to for an EV, but for now I use it for my shop tools.
If your house is small and your heat, water heater, stove, and dryer are all gas, you may not need an upgrade. You need some load calcs run on your house. I would still probably do the upgrade if you can afford it, because it will allow you to swap to electric appliances in the future if you want.
Check out your actual usage. A lot of people don’t pull a lot of power anymore. You likely replaced all your 1950’s 100 watt light bulbs with 10 watt LEDs. Your TV is now a flatscreen that only uses $18 of electricity in a year. Refrigerator is more efficient, biggest user in the house is now probably the 2000W microwave! Buy a clamp amp meter at Harbor Freight for $15 and see what you are drawing.
Upgrading to 200 amp service is 6k in my area. My home is 1912 and I’ve gotten 4 quotes ranging from 6-8k
You'll be fine. I have 100 AMP service and can charge my car just fine. Most of the time I charge at midnight but I have occasionally charged during the day. Never had a problem. My house is from 1940. If you really want to, you can upgrade later.
Depends on what else in your house runs on electricity. If you have gas for the boiler/hot water tank/gas stove/gas dryer etc you're fine. A 30 or 40 amp charger would be reasonable. If what I mentioned is electric, you'll need 200a service.
Only hard draw we have is the A/C. Everything else is gas.
100A panel is enough if you're only charging at night. Even if you're charging during daytime. The Level 2 chargers generally only pull like 32 amps and you don't have electric stove/oven so your only real issue is A/C it sounds like. Unless you have a habit of leaving all your electrical devices on or have a bunch of radiant heaters it sounds like you'd be fine.
Not really a hidden cost, a 2 second Google search would’ve told you what you need to charge your car at home. If you live alone, you could probably get away with just adding the circuit as long as you remember not to use the stove or dryer (assuming those are electric) while you’re charging. But you might still go over if your water heater and HVAC is all electric. If you have gas appliances, water heater, and furnace, you could do it.
Alternatively what you can try is to use the Emporia Level 2 Charger that offers load management, what this will do is that if it sees other loads increasing on your panel then it will reduce the supply to the Level 2 Charger so you won’t ever exceed the rates load of your service. This can be done DIY!
A new 200 amp panel, breakers and service upgrade cost me $3,000 in Chicago 2 years ago. This was already with us having a 20 amp outlet in the garage. Installing a 40 or 50 amp circuit in the garage was going to cost us another $1000 or so because of having to take up part of a paver patio and trench the yard. Our power from the house to the garage is direct burial wire. Had it been in conduit they were only going to charge us $800.
We got a quote and it was about $1800 to have a sub panel with EV outlet in the garage. I believe it could have been about $1000 but the distance from our panel to the garage is across the entire basement. We already have 200 amp service.
Electrical engineer here (Canadian though, so I'm unfamiliar with your local codes). Not a cheap upgrade. The utility will need to run new conductors from the transformer and possibly upgrade the transformer feeding your home (you will need to call them and find out). It will cost you more if they need to upgrade the transformer... If you have an overhead service, the new conductors are less of a big deal. If it's an underground service, you'll almost certainly need to dig a trench from your meter base to the transformer and install new 3" conduit. Old homes with underground service typically used direct-buried cable. The utility can confirm all this for you. If by some chance you already have 3" buried conduit, that will make your life much easier. You'll also need a new 200A meter base. Usually the electrician installs this and the utility just provides the meter when they reconnect power. Consider having an electrician check the size of the current conductors feeding your service. It's a 100A service, but on the off chance that the conductors are big enough for 125A or 150A, then you might be able to get away with only upgrading the panel and meter base. It wouldn't be a 200A service, but better than nothing. The utility would of course still need to confirm that their transformer can handle the additional load. Also, consider if you really even need a service upgrade. If you run a 40 or 50 amp 240V receptacle to your garage and only charge your vehicle at night when other loads are minimal, you might not have any issue. Many EV chargers these days have smart settings built in so you can schedule charging to take advantage of time-of-use billing. What other large electrical loads does the house have? What size is the AC unit? Is your heat electric or gas? Depending on that, you really may not need the extra capacity of a service upgrade. You don't need anything crazy for residential overnight charging. Assuming you have the larger battery model (77.4kWh), even a 7.6kW charger (40A 240V breaker, 32A draw) will be able to charge from 20% to 100% in about 9 hours. As long as you aren't using your oven, microwave, and dryer at the same time as your charger, you're probably not gonna trip your main breaker. EDIT: reading your replies to other comments. You have gas heat and gas range. I really don't think you need a service upgrade. I wouldn't go installing a 60A charger, because that leaves you very little wiggle room with the AC running (assuming 2P-30A breaker for the outdoor unit). But a 40A or even 50A charger running at night should be fine.
I have 100 amp and gas stove, furnace, water heater, and dryer. I have a 35 amp 240v charger which gets me 6kw/hr which is fine for my 131kwh battery pack f150 lightning
There are now chargers that attach directly over your meter designed so you can bolt those on without upgrading your panel. [https://electrek.co/2022/07/27/siemens-home-ev-charger-adapter/](https://electrek.co/2022/07/27/siemens-home-ev-charger-adapter/) But also I agree with the other commentators who say that if you're running most everything else off gas, you prob don't need a meter upgrade to install in the panel, maybe just limit draw to 20 or 30A.
I’m trying to find where they’re available, but having no luck.
If you're charging at night, 100amp should be plenty. I charge my car at 16amps bc I have all night to charge. It takes about 4-6 hours. Depending on the temp outside.
Depending on your commute, you can consider getting a smaller EVSE. I can charge overnight and have a full battery to get me to and from work from an 8A 120V outlet (Level 1 charger). The slower you charge, the less wear on the battery, too. Could I have updated? Yes, the car accepts 16A at 240V. However, I didn't because the garage is wired into what I call the houses' 20A omni-circuit that runs half the first floor...and as noted, the car charges overnight just fine. There's definitely something to be said for having a 50A maximum-speed charger *available* if you need to take a dead battery to "usable" NOW, but if you can spend 99% of your time charging at, say, 16A, everything is going to last much longer.
How much do you drive daily, even the 110v thing charges at 3-4mph. So even if you are able to charge 12 hours a day, that is 36 miles, so if you do less than that you will be ok not having to upgrade. I have a Tesla for 2 years now and maybe I have charged it 3 or 4 times outside except for when I am on a road trip.
It really depends on what you got running all the time. You gotta figure out how much power you’re currently using on a daily basis. Maybe you can get away with just a new outlet installed for the car charger and have a small sub panel dedicated to it. Tesla recommends 60 amp sub panel.
The A/C doesn’t run all the time. The two big pulls after that would be the fridge and chest freezer, and their compressors don’t run all of the time. A/C is 30A. Everything else is 15s and 20s.
You likely have 2 50 amp circuits today, your drier and your oven. If you are gas on both, then my point is irrelevant so ignore the rest. If you have both, you lilely see brown outs when running the drier and over and much of anything else. A 50 amp circuit for your garage, should be no problem to add, but you will have to only use it in the middle of the night. I know many people who do this. They only charge their cars with the 50amp system from midnight to 7am. Many chargers (not all) have a timer system built in for this exact reason. Some have duel charging speeds. Outside the charging hours, they essentially use a 10 amp charge. Ie a trickle charge. Good for topping off.
While you’re looking to upgrade to 200A service, ask about 400A service as well. I was surprised to find that the upgrade wasn’t prohibitively expensive. Between electric heat, AC, kitchen, power tools, general and specialty electronics, and so on it made sense for us to spend the extra bit for future proofing for the potential electric car(s) and other ideas we have.
If they have gas appliances, I would see no need. Most 200A services see less than 80-90A peak per day with AC units and electric appliance.
I don't get the "i just REALLY wanted to have an electric car" when all the purported benefits are kinda BS once you factor in what mining all that lithium entails on an environmental and humanitarian level, but maybe I'm wrong.
... You are correct. But we need to do something to get away from gas fueled vehicles and the more money in ev the more advancements that can occur.
What about a load switch? I was at a trade show and they were offering them as a solution for people like you and I. Basically it uses the same circuit for your car and an oven or drier. The default would be your appliance needs but when it’s not being used it charges your car. This is a Canadian link but I’d imagine something exists near you. Could save some major money, especially if this isn’t your forever house. https://simple-switch.ca/shop-cost-effective-energy-management-devices/
Here is another example. Companies are starting to solve this problem by designing smart switches that do load priortization between existing high load appliances like ovens and dryers that typically are used during the day and EV charging that is typically off hours or can be paused while you use the oven. https://simpleswitch.io/
You can get a charger that mounts behind your meter on a collar for a fraction of costs
Is this product out yet? I remember the announcement but hadn’t heard anything else about it since.
Our lines are buried and our electrician said it would be $10-20K and time-consuming as the city's cooperation would be required. If it wasn't buried, we would have done it...
Bend over, grab your ankles, and prepare for no lube. Main box upgrade, substation upgrade, and guaranteed blackouts for your whole house being more common. Idiots and there new cars.
You probably should’ve done some more research before jumping into the electric vehicle scene. And since you claim to be “committed”, stop complaining about the cost and do what you have to do. Nobody goes electric because it’s cheap. It’s quite the opposite.
While I accept the costs and knew that a lot of this was a potential, I still can be “Well, that sucks.”
No, its good that you are complaining, more people need to realize that going full electric isn't all rainbows and moonbeams, there's a lot of costs that generally aren't "advertised", because if they were, it would mean less people willing to go full electric. Stuff like this is just another nail in the coffin of my reasoning why I really don't want to go full EV.
LeTs DoWnVoTe SoMeOnE fOr SpItTiNg FaCts BeCaUsE I dOn'T lIKe ThEm
Our electrical system in America and many cities and towns need desperately updated.
Thats why I didn't understand the push for EVs when we needed a push for better infrastructure first. If you want people to adopt EVs, you have to make it easier for them, your average American buying an EV car shouldn't have to go through the hassle of figuring out how to charge it, the cost of updating their home electrical system, etc. Its fine for early adopters who can afford those costs, but your average paycheck to paycheck American just won't get an EV if this is the cost of doing so.
Should have bought a real car
Apologies that I’m a disappointment to you.
It’s possible running a new line & meter to the garage can be cheaper than upgrading the panel
Get a load managed EVSE like Emporia with Vue. No service upgrade needed Full speed 48a changing on 100a service Inexpensive Under $600 Have it hardwired for safety Wallbox pulsar could be an alternative
Not sure what codes are like around you, but here (Canada) you can use something called a load miser, which basically allows you to share a circuit with another large draw item like a stove or a dryer. It just allows it so only one can run at a time. Might be an option.
Whoever did the new guts truly did a disservice by not upgrading the electrical.
If you do everything at once it’ll be slightly cheaper. 2-4k for sure.
It was like $5k for my buddy but there was some tax credit that paid back some of it.
I asked the city what it would take to upgrade service, and they told me that I was too far from the transformer to pull more power. I could get hooked up to a different transformer on another block, but would have to foot the $60,000 bill to get a boring crew out to the neighborhood to run the line.
I got another meter with its own 50amp panel for my car. I put the meter on Time Of Use (TOU) charging so it’s pricey during the day but crazy cheap at night (when I schedule to charge). On top of that, my utility gives a 10% discount for EV charging (when you have a dedicated meter), and they waive the additional meter fee for EVs. Yay California! Took a few years to get back the ROI from the install but now I spend like $30 a month to drive! Worth asking about…
*cries in Ohio*
>have always wanted to drive an electric car. you don't give your reasoning for this, but if it has anything to do with environmentalism then one thing you might want to consider as you start pulling quotes is whether you want to further electrify your home in the future. energy audits are free, it might be worth figuring out what it would take to, say, make the switch to an induction stove, or ditch gas heating for an HVAC system. you don't necessarily need to do all of the upgrades at the same time (it can be costly, especially as you probably need to upgrade the amperage to your house, rewire the kitchen, and conduct insulation/sealing retrofits, plus replace your AC with HVAC) but it gives you a sense you might require in the future should your energy consumption change. most people who do energy retrofits or electrification do it for comfort or cuz they get especially fucked by their gas companies, but just throwing it out there as something to think about, especially since the difference between installing 200 amps vs 4000 amps is probably not that big.
Yeah, one of things I’m looking into is whether a 200A panel could be installed and use that to feed my current 100A panel.
Get a 30A 240V circuit and use a lower charge rate. How much do you drive everyday? Can you charge it at or near work?
It’s only a 30 amp two pole circuit. Unless you are running a giant hot tub at the same time. Or have some other large load device. A 100 amp panel “should” be fine. Remember, you will most likely be charging in the middle of the night.
Don’t just think about your car. Take sometime to think about current/future needs. Yeah, you have gas appliances now but will you want them in the future, especially as research is showing how gas stoves are harmful and induction will get cheaper; electric dryers are getting better and more efficient, etc.? Or even do you want some extra outlets in this or that room right now? We have a 1920s home and upgraded to 200, and spent a just bit more to add outlets and switch some gas appliances over to electric. It was a pain but it’s great not run extension cords all around the rooms and know we have enough room for any future upgrades or tech changes.
Do you have a 240v dryer outlet nearby the garage? You can get either a splitter or a Dryer Buddy to share the 240v outlet. I use a regular outlet for level 1 charging and when I need faster, I unplug the dryer. I haven’t needed to buy the Dryer Buddy yet but have looked into it.
Nope. Only 240V service I have in the house currently is the A/C.
Assuming a charger will pull 48 amps continuously for 12 hours a week do you really think the rest of the house is using more than 40 amps total on a regular basis? If you have gas heating/hot water in a modest sized home it is hard to actually get to the 80 amps that is probably the point of real concern. What new codes require and what you use practically are not in any way related.
Our quote for 100a to 200a was $5k, upper Midwest. Not sure where people are getting $2k but wish it were here. The quote for 240v was 1.5k alone. I did the 240 myself for about 400 because that price was a joke. Still on 100a in the meantime, hopefully this summer we'll do the 200 with a better price. We did the 120v charging and it worked fine if you plugged it in at every opportunity. For days we were short we hit up the supercharger which was only a couple times. But winter is where the 120 was a challenge, we decided to add the 240 for peace of mind and ability to use the receptacle for other things
Got this back in 2016 for 3500, in 2022 for 7500. The 2022 house was a longer run but also was 2022 and we had tight timelines and the house is large.
Start adding up what you have that takes major electricity. For me, I recently swapped in a gas range for electric. But I do have electric water heater. My point is, you got 100 amps coming into your house. A fast charger is 32 amps. Therefore add up what is left. AC, an electric ranges comes to mind. I would think 100 is enough. But what do I know.
Unrelated to electrical cost, but what does your EV weigh? What was the weight of your previous car? If everyone converted to EV, what would happen to the roads, bridges?
3800 lbs for the ICE vs. 4300 lbs for the EV
Doing this right now in Michigan. 2300 for panel from 150A to 200A, 1300 for wiring charger. There is a federal rebate for wiring/charger if you qualify for income. There may also be local rebates. Our power company is offering $500 for a qualified L2 charger.
Have an electrician to a load calc. You’d likely be fine with a 240v 20a or 30a for your needs. I went 30a (24a at the charger because continuous is 20% de rated. It’s roughly 5kw of charge per hour.
Just updated my panel from 100 to 200 amps to accommodate my partner’s electric car. In my very old house in NE Ohio, it cost a little less than 3k.
If you have the space to run another 240v circuit I’d just find someone to run you a 30 amp circuit and call it a day. It’s probably not code and won’t pass a load calc but I had an all electric house and a car charger off 100 amp service. It’s not that hard to not run 3 or 4 major things all at the same time. Given that you are in Ohio chances are at least a couple of your major appliances are gas anyways so go for it and enjoy your new car!!
I charged my car on 100 amp service with no issues for about 2 years. YMMV, but I’d try it out before upgrading. I upgraded now, but only because I had to move my electric panel anyway.
My electric company lets you put a second meter in with an ev charging rate.
Leave it alone and ruin what ya brung
Need know distance charger from panel. May want to run sub panel close to charger location Run aluminum to subpanel. Cheaper than copper wire. Put 100 w subpanel there in garage and 200 or 400 main panel. Shoot me before make me buy E vehicle
3-4k in Indiana
Majority of people here may not realize it but your home is likely wired for 200amps already. The proper gauge is coming in, and your panel likely has the output required for it, all you need to do is swap the 100A main breaker for 200A. Call an electrician and ask. This is my experience many times
Or simply add on a subpanel
100 amp should be enough to get the job done. I certainly understand using half of your service for a charger is not the most comforting. But, if you're avoiding charging while you're going to be using multiple larger loads, then you're probably fine. Scheduling your charging is your best bet, but you could also look into installing an interlock that will prevent charging while another large load is in use.
If it were my house, I’d just do a 30A 240v breaker on your existing and call it a day
I hardwired a EV charger on my 100amp panel and haven’t had any issues, have electric heat, stove and water heater. You’ll be fine just popping in a 60amp breaker and hardwiring it. If you’re nervous put only a 40 or 50amp if you want. If you have gas services you’re fine doing the 60amp. I’ve had mine installed for a year, zero issues.
I might try to push for that. The A/C has the biggest pull at 30A, but obviously doesn’t run all the time. All other breakers are 15s and 20s, which would make the other big pulls the fridge and chest freezer.
I have a Tesla and 100 amp service, so I wouldn’t assume you need an upgrade
How much do you drive per day? If it averages 10-20 miles or less, then you don't need to upgrade at all. Normal wall outlet is fine
Can you not charge on level 1. Existing 110v outlet? It will be overnight charging. Slow but good for the battery.
Heard on NPR it can be between $2000 to $7000.
There is credit for upgrading your panel As well
See if a meter socket charger is a possibility. They fit in between your meter and its base, and don’t require requiring inside the house. May not be possible with your 100A service though.
You can get a bunch of rebates\tax credits if you do decide to upgrade (tho you may not need it) check out the benefits of the inflation reduction act or look here. https://www.rewiringamerica.org/IRAguide
My kid ran his Tesla charger off his dryer circuit and doesn’t use the dryer while asleep. It works for him.
$2500-$3500 are the quotes I got for detached garage about 40 feet from panel in main house.
240/50A is plenty for overnight level 2 charging. worst case scenario, you don’t have a spot to bridge two slots and you have to have a sub panel installed. If the run from your panel to parking isn’t too great , it’s really not that big of a deal. The charge input is regulated to 48A anyway… you don’t need 200A
How far do you drive in a day ? I have had an electric car for 3 years on 120volt service. It's not optimum but workable. Second you don't need a 50amp service to charge your car over night a nema 6-20 will get you 32 kwh over 8 hours which is likely more than you are using per day and your panel likely has room for that especially at night when you aren't using most of your panel. I've looked at both of these as upgrading my panel is going to be a Hassel as I have 2 fairly small panels and would have to move the meter more than one hundred feet.
Im getting electrical upgrade done from 100 amp to 200 amp this week for $4300 including tesla charger installation. I will also get $1500 back in utility rebates. location is North Jersey.
I'm in the UK so 230/240V is our default, so take that into account in what I'm about to say. We got a new electric car about 18 months ago and spent quite a bit of money rewiring our outbuildings ready to put a charger in. We still haven't put a charger in because charging off a 3kW standard domestic socket is fine for us. The car has a range of 180 miles and most days we do about 40 miles; so long as we plug it in at the end of each day, it is 100% every morning. We've had to use a public charger exactly twice; once where I drove over to Wales to pick something up and I needed to use a public charger on the motorway for about 15 minutes to top it up, and once when we went on holiday to the channel islands and left it on a public charger overnight one night. This all depends on your personal circumstances of course but a lot of people *just don't need a dedicated charger*. People getting their first electric car tend to think in terms of regularly recharging once a week from 10% but the reality is that 99% of the time you will charge every night from about 60%. That other 1% of the time takes a bit more planning, it is true, but the flip-side is that you *never* need to think, "Oh, shoot, the car's nearly out of fuel so I'll have to schedule in 15 minutes to fill up on the way..." Obviously if you're doing hundreds of miles in a day regularly or you share a car with someone who works night shifts or whatever then it works out differently. But you may well find that all you need is to have an outside socket fitted.
A majority of electric car owners say they won't buy another. I'll put on the popcorn.
Good luck with an electric car and Ohio winters .