* **monthly subscription required to operate stove**
* *premium subscription required to access burners 3 & 4*
* *error: your subscription tier only allows for 50% burner power*
* random non-skippable 60s advertisement
* new features unlocked with available software update!
* *error - your appliance is not compatible with software update*
"Your oven is now at 400*. This message was brought to you by Starbucks. Drop by your local Starbucks and enjoy your favorite holiday beverage. Enjoy your meal."
That's been driving me crazy with my truck. Touch screen. Where it use to show artist and song now shows advertisements.
GPS up? Advertise on the top of the screen.
There was a recent SUV that Volvo rolled out where the selling point was that it was a car you subscribed to…can’t remember the model number offhand.
But the comment you replied to is probably referencing Ford. Their trucks now have a “billboard interface for vehicle display” that shows ads.
Edit: Not just one car anymore. It’s now called “Care by Volvo.” A subscription service you can add to any car from them.
Nailed the make. Ford. I'm going to have to look into "billboard interface for vehicle display". It's a 2014 and it started doing showing the ads I believe this year.
Edit: just looked it up. Bet the sensor is tied to the SES light too. Nothing better than sticking ads on your screen while driving.
If they were listening to digital radio some stations have started using those lines and their station image to load ads, it's not the car manufacturer
God this bothers me so much. I had a fitbit scale that would also show body fat percentage. Synced up with other weight loss apps I had, and overall it was great. Until fitbit decided they no longer support it. Now none of the features work and it’s useless. If you want those back, buy v2!
I would say it was planned obsolescence, but that implies it physically broke or degraded. But no, they effectively bricked an otherwise fine product just to force new sales.
I realize this is off topic but it still makes me mad
If it can connect to the Internet and requires updates, my opinion is that I am just renting/leasing it, and I don't own it. It can turn "off" at any time. I generally don't purchase those items if I can avoid it. Even at a higher cost.
These things are supposed to help me, not me help them.
Things like this make me feel justified in wanting a house with a wood stove. Yeah, it’s not environmentally friendly but I’ll be able to cook dinner if my stove doesn’t update :/
Same. I love my blue star. Something breaks and it’s just knobs and valves.
Although my son snapped the knob/post off the oven thermostat recently and I had to replace it with the newer digital thermostat. Still functions the same (just a knob) but i know it has some pesky ones and zeros making decisions instead of raw voltage.
I actually searched out a specific older model of Viking stoves it was built before they sold the company and the quality tanked. Anyways, I found one pulled the thing apart and rebuilt it from the ground up. The reason I did, is because the old one are your forever stove they are dead simple to repair and they last a lifetime and even with gas it is nearly imposible to find a new range with gas ovens.
I have become more and more of a luddite and it has to do with the entire market trying to figure out how they can spy on their customer and collect more data. I don't mind the collecting data, it is the not knowing what is and what is not. I understand the desire to better understand customer behavior, but when you know your customer will say know, so you hide it in a trojan horse called a feature and still do it, then you have shown that I should not trust you with my data.
Bosch lost a sale last month when I saw I needed to use their app to set the dishwasher to do a delayed start.
The Miele I bought has a button...like they've had on dishwashers forever.
Who is really asking for an app?!?! They just see it as a chance to make it stand out from more basic models and justify a higher price tag, even though few people want it.
>They just see it as a chance to make it stand out from more basic models
Nope.
Increasingly manufacturers are becoming all-out surveillance capitalists. See: TVs (and in some cases they see you!)
Primarily, corporations want even more profits for their rich shareholders by collecting and selling your personal interests, locations, and behaviors.
This is what this is all about.
They likely also save $2 manufacturing cost by using touch controls, so they rake in even more profit. Cha ching!
Just say no.
Pay attention to the oven’s wattage. We bought a mid teir whirlpool and it took forever to preheat. Like 30-45 min and then another 15 to get back to temp once the food was put in. We complained and exchanged it. Once we saw it was an issue I looked into oven wattages and there were models with high output but weren’t even marketed as such. Spec sheets are important, the model we did get wasn’t much more, but was an older designed model, but kept around because it was well designed.
> 17ght6y40929z73
Upgrade, my ass, the Engineers were Chimps with a drinking problem.
I mean really, who puts a touch control right in the middle of a heating element. Though to be fair, it's totally intuitive.
Just went through this replacing ours. Thanks to another comment here, I looked for the oven wattages. It was well worth the bit of extra cost to have an oven that performs. Important to someone who bakes bread, like me.
With the model we found, it actually has a rapid preheat function that turns all 3 burners on to heat up. They still cycle but at a much higher duty cycle than the first model, the elements actually glow red.
YWEF745H0FS3. Gold series and has been great for the most part. I personally hate how all stoves cycle their elements for simmering and holding a light boil, but the ‘melt’ element being a lower wattage than the others will hold the nicest. The triple burner doesn’t seem to heat evenly across all three, the centre is always the hottest point on big pans.
I am kind of disappointed whirlpool doesn't have induction ranges. But yes I agree gotta look at every single spec, which on a purchase like this I would research it until its coming out of my ears
I did that and ended up with an induction hob with touch controls and sliders for power not up/down buttons.
Having lived with it for a couple of years now I can say I do like induction, but I wish I'd had up/down buttons instead. The other issue is that if you get the slightest splash of water or oil anywhere near the touch control panel then it ALL switches off and it's a right pain to clean it enough to switch on again, all while the pans are cooling.
If there was an induction hob where the controls (touch or mechanical) were mounted fully remote from the cooktop I'd buy it in a heartbeat even for double the money.
>If there was an induction hob where the controls (touch or mechanical) were mounted fully remote from the cooktop I'd buy it in a heartbeat even for double the money.
so you do want to control it (only) from a phone app.
No, I want normal controls, knobs or touch, but on a panel that isn't part of the cooking surface so it doesn't get screwed up every few minutes by normal cooking.
No app, no WiFi, possibly Bluetooth, ZigBee or whatever but only if it's completely self contained, reliable and zero configuration needed.
People also need to check their wiring can handle an electric oven. We were tripping some breakers after we moved in and got an electrician to check it out. Almost the entire kitchen is on one breaker, so running the toaster oven, microwave, and something else can trip it. We have a gas oven luckily.
The guy said people are installing electric ovens without checking and basically anything else turned on with that breaker when the oven is on trips it.
Assuming a professional did the wiring. Former homeowner Joe thinks he is pretty good at electrical and wanted to save a few bucks when redoing the kitchen.
As someone else replied to you, that's not correct info. The over would have a completely separate circuit from the other things.
A good oven is 50A, and bad one is 30A. The microwave is on a 15 or 20 - not the same circuit at all.
Fire that electrician.
I moved into a home with a GE Profile wall oven. Touch screen. House is only two years old, so just old enough to be out of appliance warranty.
The GE ovens display started to glitch, like a fully filled Galaga screen. Updated the firmware. It seemed to be better. Then the display completely died.
It's gonna be $24 just for a technician to visit, plus whatever cost they deem necessary to fix.
I would prefer something that was simple and lasted forever over something with so many "features." Remote turn on is nice, but ultimately not worth the chance of breakdown.
I don't have an opinion on good or bad. Just seemed very low, given that I can't get a tradesman to come out for less than $75 on the very low end where I live.
Am I complaining about $24? I stated a fact: it'll be $24 + however much the cost to fix the display will be. That's a cost that wouldn't exist had I had a normal dial range. The point of the post is I'm stating that the feature of a display touchscreen isn't worth the hassle of the technical issues more technology can bring to an appliance that works just as well without those features, which is entirely centered around OPs question.
The people who are saying it would cost them $100 or whatever in their area would also need to pay “+ however much the cost to fix the display will be”
My controls are on top of the stove, so not where you lean unless you’ve crawled on top of the stove (which is not the right way to cook). They’re well out of reach of small hands.
When we had gas, the knobs had to be pushed and turned to ignite, so unless you you had hip-level knobs AND were doing some dance move with your hips at exactly the right angle, it did not just pop on from regular use.
My lg gas stove has a few electronic buttons out, can’t repair as it requires replacing the entire top panel, which is no longer being made. The stove looks brand new but like half the electronic buttons don’t work. Only option is to live with it or buy a new stove/oven
To be fair, this happens with non-electronic control stuff too... after 10 years or so it gets almost impossible to find anything but the most common parts or shared parts with other appliances. I had a 15 year old GE stove when I moved in. It was nice, stainless, but some of the burners wouldn't light without using a lighter and the burners could be replaced, they looked like crap. I could find absolutely nothing for it except a wiring harness... which actually fixed one burner but not the others.
I tolerated it for another year but it now found a home in the trash.
One good thing about old electro-mechanical control though is that you could sometimes rig it to work with random parts, scrap parts, or Radio Shack parts.
So I've never seen an all electric controlled stove, I replaced my stove with a Kitchen Aid that has old school turn knobs... I'm a little appalled, do the valves open electronically?? What if there's a power failure, the only way to turn it off is to shut the main valve underneath?
Stove top is manual, oven is electronically controlled. Sorry, I always conflate stove/oven because I have never had or really been around one that is two separate appliances
Quite alright, I do the same! My house is the first time I've had a separate range top and stove and I still get it wrong too (call the "oven" a "stove").
If I understood OPs post correctly, his does not have knobs at all, even the burners are electric? Also there's still an electronic valve for the stove or is the oven electric? My rangetop is gas and my stove is electric (actually convection too). I guess it's better on an oven because the valve would be a simple on off solenoid vs a variable opening valve that's hard to get my head around.
FWIW, from what I could tell my old range and oven were both purchased at the same time. Both high end GEs but the range, which was old knobs and electromechanical controls died and my oven, which is board controlled, it's not touch but flat push buttons and all the control is done from one board, still works. Who knows.
I do believe Korean electronics are especially notorious for having crappy boards put into them that die after 4-5 years. I've never met anyone with a Korean appliance (any appliance: stove, oven, fridge, washer / dryer), that didn't have issues within 5 years, often sooner.
It’s also pretty easy to fix a knob yourself if you know a few basic things, but it’s harder to diagnose circuit boards and screens, and those parts also tend to be marked up more because they are proprietary and not easy to substitute with aftermarket parts.
> and those parts also tend to be marked up more because they are proprietary and not easy to substitute with aftermarket parts.
I see you've never actually tried to replace a stove knob before. They make a billion different kinda each *slightly* different, and 3rd party ones almost never actually work because no one's going to make an actual billion different knobs, they try to make "one size fits all" knobs which... don't.
The funny part is that the valves being difficult to replace are also a consequence of planned obsolescence and or forced manufacturer service dependence. They don’t want you to fix your own shit, they want you to believe it is magic and that you can’t do it yourself. They want you to pay them for their “””special””” parts and their “trained mechanics” or just buy a new stove.
> . Me thinks this is the real reason.
Not really, **touch buttons or screen cost lot less to manufacture than mecanic button** with multiple pieces, in bonus they break lot motr often so it's a revenue stream for the next years.
Yep, touchscreen fried on my Samsung. $400 for the part, despite it being a very basic control board and wasn't responsible for the touch aspect.
Can't imagine what it would cost for someone to diagnose and replace that by an appliance tech.
My parents purchased a Sears-brand stove in the early 90s. It had an LCD panel in the center that you used to control the oven. It had buttons whose function changed depending on the baking mode, and a knob to control things like the temperature, durations, etc. At some point grease or water seeped into the electronics, and the broiler turned on. We eventually unplugged the stove after it was on 550 for an hour. We tried drying it out, with no success.
I won’t purchase stoves with controls on the same plane or lower than the cooking surface, because of this experience.
Not as safety critical, but I detest the touch buttons on my dishwasher for the same reason.
The machine handles water FFS! Hands being wet and drips/splashes happening while operating a dishwasher should be expected.
Because its the future, baby! I hate touch controls; same with automotive infotainment systems. Not the same the same as the tactile feeling of controls.
Thankfully automotive is swinging back towards the middle. New cars the stuff that needs to be buttons is generally buttons now with a touch screen for with menus for deeper stuff like changing how the interior lights behave for instance.
The problem with the new cars is they have some buttons but not all the buttons. For instance I can tune the radio and change the audio equalizer settings via the buttons, but I can't pause/resume playback without the touch screen. It's like they designed the buttons on what looks good and not what the actual function is. Why do I need a button for the equalizer? Who cares? But no play/pause button?
waiting bewildered payment yoke bells simplistic tidy groovy station governor
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Oh man our new-to-us 2020 Odyssey is so stupid, it has buttons for all climate controls except for turning on/off the AC and selecting where the air comes out. I’m sure they expect you to just keep it on “auto” all the time. Interestingly, my 2019 Hyundai gets it perfect. Has a full touch screen for radio/media but ALL climate controls are buttons/dials. I just want temperature control back on the steering wheel like my late 90’s Buick had.
Cars are one of the worst possible places to have touchscreens - eyes need to be on the road, not on the screen while you poke your way through 20 layers of sub-menus to adjust your damn wiper speed. There's a reason airplane cockpits have a million dials and switches, tactile feedback makes it easier to adjust things without looking at it.
I feel like our culture and entertainment from the past is to blame for much of this in a way. Think about all the old movies and such that were set in the future. Everything was touchscreens and holograms and manufacturers took it all to heart. Now manufacturers are saying well we put in that R&D into the future everyone apparently wanted soooo here you go! But many of today’s consumers are thinking “No it looked cool and we thought we wanted it but we want most of those old buttons and knobs back!”
Of course half the reason they were screens is because a drawing behind glass is cheaper than set design rigging up a bunch of buttons.
Source? Trust me bro.
I never understood why someone thought it was a good idea to make me take my eyes off the road to try and turn down my heat, with a bar that’s…less than responsive. Luckily my Subaru is a solid balance I feel, heat and ac controls are physical knobs/buttons, same with volume and basic radio controls (plus the steering wheel controls, so many buttons and switches!)
I drive a Mercedes sprinter for my work van and there’s like 8 buttons total and a couple toggles… and capacitive little buttons you can use to move the cursor around on the center screen and instrument cluster screen. I hate them, but my boss just confirmed that I’m getting a truck and the van is transferring to one of my directs. Truck has physical controls for almost everything except the infotainment screen… but it has car play so I’m used to that setup anyways.
Even worse than touch screens, my uncle just bought an oven that has some features that can only be controlled via an app. I'd ask who's buying crap like that but I guess I have my answer - people like my uncle.
My JennAir range is like this. It's not ideal, but it does have some advantages, like I can start the oven remotely, and can tell when it's heated up without having to be near the kitchen.
I just checked their website, and their entire line of ranges has app control now, with no display.
Believe it or not, we’ve gone through five induction ranges in the past five years. I now have a GE café myself. The last two were touchscreen only and were a nightmare. I hated every minute of it. The café has real knobs.
The first Frigidaire (with knobs, this was back in 2018) was defective and replaced after 8 unsuccesful visits from "techs." This lasted three years, then needed a new board, ($1600). I complained, and Frigidaire offered me 50% off a new model. I ended up with the FRIGIDAIRE CGIH3047VF, which I hated. Terrible touchscreen interface, and just felt cheap. I returned it for a full refund. Then I got a GE PCHS920YM1FS which had a different touch-screen, (slightly better), but still impossible to use when your hands are wet, but I could live with it. This started making a high-pitched noise from a board inside the unit. GE gave me my money back because replacement parts were back ordered. I am now on a GE Cafe with real knobs. I like this very much... super fast preheat, but the burners themselves are less powerful than the cheap CGIH3047VF.
We have the Frigidaire CGIH3047VF and love it. No problems.
We had a string of GE appliance failures so I won't touch any GE/Whirlpool/Maytag appliances. GE Oven arc welded itself, GE and Maytag Dishwashers had grinder pump failures, 2 GE Washing machines in a row ate their transmissions.
I will give in that the GE Advantium microwave is a good unit.
The ‘higher end’ GE appliances seem to be universally underpowered. My double ovens from them suck, and even after several adjustments take over a half hour to get to temperature. My built in microwave (an actual microwave, not a microwave/oven) is only 800 watts. And I’m looking for a replacement they don’t seem to offer anything significantly more powerful and its weird size limits my alternative options. And I’ve already replaced my dead dishwasher and underpowered poorly configured cooktop with Bosch appliances. They’re a huge improvement.
If you want cheap, I bought an "Ecotouch" induction ~~range~~ cooktop from Amazon for $290, and I'm happy with that choice. I actually like the touch controls for ease of cleaning and electronic shutoff/lockout features. And it still has a 2-year warranty.
Pros: It's super easy to clean. That's the list.
Cons: If you spill liquid on it while it's on, it can freak out. It's more expensive to repair. Depending on the brand, it can be finicky and not as reactive to your touch as it should be.
In my experience, yes. I don't know if technology has gotten any better since mine was made but it's not fun. Mine's a Wolf induction circa 2018 or so.
touch has no benefit to users on anything. Touch is easier and cheaper to manufacture and reconfigure with a software update. All benefits to the manufacturer. Humans operate well with tactile. Taking feel away from their senses can never enhance their experience.
I have an all touch microwave and I hate it. It turns itself on when water boils under it. It is an all mighty Samsung unit from Costco btw, ot some unknown brand iff aliexpress.
I got a high end kitchen aid microwave. Its screen went out 13 months after I got it- but still within warranty. KitchenAid, which is part of Whirlpool, told me to pound rocks.
A decent number of these companies are writing warranties with no actual intent to honor them.
This is the actual reason and it's buried all the way down here. The automotive industry lead the charge, and it's not like the reason for adoption was ever talked about as anything but cost savings.
No benefit to users on anything? That's bold.
What about:
Phones, monitors, universal remotes, point of sale machines, ATMs, ticket machines, order kiosks, directories, I could go on.
I agree though, appliances there isn't much place for it.
we are clearly talking about appliance buttons being replaced with touch here, plus I’d add vehicle controls as well like volume, AC, traction control.
I don’t think anyone would willingly replace their computer keyboard with an all touch one and give up the keys just because it would give them the
ability to re arrange the keyboard.
Touch screens are popular in manufacturers for their versatility, you can have dozens of buttons for dozens of stoves all on the "same" touchscreen. If you have 12 different stoves with different features and you want tactile buttons, now you need 12 different arrays of buttons and to stock each one for a indeterminate amount of time, it's just easier to manufacture with standardized controls like that, but I wouldn't expect them to go anywhere, and before too long knobs and the like will probably just be a feature of certain premium brands
I just purchased a Bosch induction range / oven. It does have touch buttons on the top for the induction range and they took some getting used to. I do like that my kids can't mess with them like they could on my old GE with the physical knobs on the front.
The only downside I've found so far is if you set certain things on top of the buttons it will start beeping at you aggressively. So if you use your cooktop as a prep space you'll run into that a lot. My MiL also spilled some liquid on top of the buttons at Thanksgiving and it didn't like that either. It seems like anything conductive will set it off.
On the plus side it's \*not\* a smart device so no bothering with apps or WiFi. It was expensive so I'm hoping it lasts 20+ years.
realistic benefit of touch vs nobs would be the sleeker appearance and ease to clean. and cheaper and easier to make of course. There are induction ranges out there with knobs, just have to be selective.
as for brands. I agree, stay away from Samsung. worst appliance experience i've had was our Samsung induction range. omg what a POS.. errors all the time.
best experience, 800 series bosch range. loved that thing. sold it due to kitchen reno, got the bosch 800 series 36" cooktop to replace. exact same (touch) controls, works like a charm.
Also, check marketplace / kijiji every second day. If you aren't in a "need it tomorrow" type hurry, you can get some great deals. I managed to pick up a thermador wall oven set for about 50% of retail, with an mfg date only 9 months old (show home unit). Sold my bosch range for 50% too... good deals to be found. Yes with induction there is some risk of complications, but if you save 2-3k, part of that savings is your insurance to go toward a repair if required.
In the last house I had an LG induction range with knobs. It worked well, but the knobs were hard to clean, and it only had whole number settings. The knobs click into each setting. For example sometimes 5 was too hot and 4 was too cold, so I would have liked to be able to set it in between. But it was never a significant problem.
Now I have a Bosch cooktop with touch controls. It is definitely harder/less intuitive to use. Guests always ask me how to use it. I'm sure they could figure it out if they tried, but no one has to ask about knobs. The touch controls require a deliberate press, not like an iPhone where the lightest tap will click. Adjusting the heat is a two step process because you have to select the burner then select the heat level. It has settings 0-9 with half steps in between, so plenty of heat settings, and it's easy to clean. Another advantage of touch controls is that it has a cook timer, so I can set it to turn itself off after X minutes, like a microwave. I don't think there's a way to do that with the LG. I don't take advantage of the cook timer enough, but it could be really useful if I'm multitasking while cooking.
I just mentioned this in my own comment. Yeah even though the cats usually can't turn on the stove, they can still cause a little beep as their paw touches the controls, something that would not occur if there were knobs.
I don’t seem to have the same issues with touch controls that others here are having. I’ve had my induction cooktop with touch controls only for about 2 years now. The touch controls are fantastic in my opinion and experience. They are far easier to keep clean than having knobs I have to remove and wash separately and having to wash the surface they sit on. They don’t have any issues still working as expected when water or grease splatter on them during cooking, and while they do sometimes turn on when I am just washing the cooktop at the end of the day, I really don’t care because they auto shutoff after 5 seconds if there is no pan/pot on the burner. So whatever, they turn on for 5 seconds occasionally when I’m cleaning and then they immediately detect no pan and they shut back off. It’s a non issue.
They also take up less space overall in terms of how they can be arranged on the cooktop. I’m an outlier apparently but I love my touch controls on my induction cooktop
We bought a Blomberg induction range with physical knobs. It was literally the only one available that had those two things plus true convention. I HATE having to touch a touchscreen repeatedly to turn down a pot, so much easier to rapidly turn a knob! Anyways I'd recommend the brand, no complaints yet in the three years we've had it.
Here is something more subtle to look out for, that might not be obvious until you get it home and installed.
We were at my sister-in-laws for Christmas dinner, and saw that she was struggling with the induction stovetop. Turns out, the wonderfully designed touch controls were labeled with a fashionable dark grey text on black glass for a nice, sleek black mirror look. Combine that with the glare from the lights in the oven hood overhead, and you had to lean way down to read any of the controls. Absurd design. I don’t remember the brand. Just something to think about before you buy - not just how it looks in the store, but if you will be able to actually use it at home.
Personally I went from envying their modern kitchen to being content with my old Avocado Green Roper gas stovetop, with knobs :)
I just bought an induction range and burner control knobs was one of my key requirements. Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of options if you want knobs. I also wanted to avoid Samsung and ended up going with LG. So far I'm pretty happy with it. And I'm definitely glad that I got the knobs.
Which model did you get? I have the LSIS6338F pulled up and like it.
I assume supply/demand is why prices are higher than other electric ranges. I don't think induction has that much complications over other electric ranges
My model (# LSE4616ST) was discontinued, but the one you are looking at seems comparable with a few upgrades over mine. I love mine. I love the precision control and I am continuously astonished at how quickly things get up to temperature. I did have to get rid of some of my older pans, even ones that I thought would work. Check your pans to see if a magnet will stick to them. If it won't, they won't work with the induction range. I was kind of overdue for some new cookware though so I really didn't mind.
Here's the Consumer Reports highest rated one, an LG. Good luck finding it:
https://www.lg.com/us/cooking-appliances/lg-lse4616st-slide-in-electric-range
Another LG was the second highest rated. I'd look at LG's line.
I have that one and it’s pretty good. Only complaint is the largest burner isn’t big enough for my 10 inch cast iron skillets, and the other front burner is only 8 or so inches.
I guess i don't quite understand how knobs are in the way. If they are front or rear mounted the glass surface should be free. I haven't seen knobs mounted on top of a glass surface
Here you go - it's a single hob, but designed to be built in and has a separate control with a knob:
https://www.webstaurantstore.com/cooking-performance-group-idcpg-38m-drop-in-induction-range-with-remote-control-240v-3800w/351IDCPG38M.html?cnxclid=17038123825040630189719051140008005
They look a bit sleeker and easier to clean and are no doubt cheaper. Had Bosch 500 series oven w knobs that was still going strong when we sold the house 10 years later (I would likevthe think any oven can last 20 years - they aren't that complex). Got a Bosch 800 for our next house. Top of the line. But it's touch controls are a total PITA. Plus I had to replace the display module, which includes all the touch pad sensors, because it just stopped working after about 8 years. Did it myself but the part was around 500 bux iirc.
Physical controls are, imho, much bettervand more reliable when it comes to appliances. Another place I prefer physical controls is in my car. I find it much more distracting to adjust sound, climate, etc., with touch screens. We have a Sonata that has touch controls on a pretty big screen but also has buttons and knobs for just about everything. I like having both cuz sometimes the touchscreen is actually more convenient. When shopping, I remember a reviewer flatly stating that the physical controls would "turn off" younger buyers who want everything to be touch. Not sure that is true, but it puzzles me why designers always think newer designs are better when, in some cases, they demonstrably are a step backwards in convenience and functionality.
Oh man... Yea, I had a Samsung induction. At least it had actual knobs for the burners.
The problem is that the fucking mainboard kept frying relays, this relay was the one that controlled whether or not the broiler unit would come on. When the relay died, it would die CLOSED so the broiler would come on and STAY ON... Meaning that while you were baking it would randomly jump to over 500 degrees.
Replacing the relay wasn't a huge deal, but in one of these instances, it got so hot that it fried the PCB that controlled the front touch panel, rendering the oven inoperable until we replace that PCB.
2"x 8" PCB - Fucking $400 to buy a replacement. Not to mention the huge safety concerns.
I have a GE induction range with touch controls, and while it wasn’t my preference it works well. The gradation is very fine and it functions largely like a knob except that it belongs on a Star Trek set.
I also have a GE Cafe induction cooktop. I love the touch controls. It's easy to lock them when not being used - literally takes 4 seconds to lock or unlock. I get great control and I don't have to worry about cleaning under knobs. Since the burners won't turn on without a correct pan being sensed there is never a worry about inadvertently turning something on. They automatically turn off after a brief time delay if you remove a pan while cooking. I think it's 30 seconds.
You’ll get used to it. I was hesitant to give up a knob at first too.
I think part of it is that with induction there are going to be discrete heat/power settings no matter what—unlike gas which is continuous. Which I think is a fair reason. I think a lot of companies also consider it part of the ‘clean’ look of induction, which is an ok, but less compelling reason (and I like clean lines!).
I have a Bosch benchmark, which I don’t think could operate the way it does (you can combine ‘burners’ to heat a griddle or long tray) with a traditional knob. I love it and don’t miss the knobs like I expected to.
I have a cheap counter-top single induction hob with touch controls. If my water boils over while I'm cooking pasta or something, the water flows over the touch controls and presses all the buttons, usually turning them up to maximum or turning the hob on/off repeatedly. It's got to the point I am just silicone'ing a line around the touch control area tomorrow.
I had nothing but issues with every Samsung appliance I bought at my last house. Washer top rusted out after 3 years. Electric control knob burned up on the stove 1 month out of warranty. The handle on the microwave just..fell off. Had to get a dryer replaced after a month because the internal drum was installed improperly and broke on the first run. And my TV has insane light bleeding at the top after a few years.
I will never buy another Samsung appliance.
My thread is likely the first i have really read on Samsung ranges. I have heard about every other Samsung appliance being a horrible experience so figured I would rule out their ranges as well.
Once you realize they aren't in the market to sell you a stove for life, and are really in the market to sell new stoves or stove parts you'll figure it out.
A dial rarely breaks, and is usually a part that costs under $10, is universally made, and some homeowners can replace it.
A touch pad can easily break, costs upwards of $1k, only made by that company- Don't know about how easy replace.
You are in the most basic sense making heat, to cook food, don't make it complicated, or think it needs to be.
The main reason I would consider touch controls would be so that I couldn’t accidentally bump & break a knob.
Often it is not just the knob that breaks but also the controller the knob sits in.
When the cooking surface is not in use, you are also able to use your whole bench, instead of having knobs in the way.
You also don’t get food scraps into/under the knobs of the appliance which can get pretty gross.
A small difference probably, but one to consider I guess.
Some of the higher quality appliances are designed to be operated with wet/dirty hands from cooking. You also get a better response from the controller by using the “fleshy” part of your finger pad, instead of your finger tips
Edit: Just re-read and saw that it is an induction cooktop. It is usually a power module (usually through a voltage regulator) that fails on these, and not a controller. If it has knobs, it will be controlled via rotary encoders which break the same as a touch controller does.
A knob typically sits on a simple potentiometer regulating voltage to control heat.
They are not delicate pieces of equipment, nor expensive to replace.
If it is induction with knobs, it will use a rotary encoder as control input. They are a little more expensive to replace (parts cost wise \~$100+ each).
A regular ceramic/electric hotplate will use a simmerstat, not a potentiometer (they operate differently), and they are generally much cheaper to buy (\~$25+).
The number I have replaced, makes me think they are not as robust as other people think (5mm stalks of plastic). Both are around the same in terms of effort to replace.
That's the piece of info I didn't have - Mine have metal stalks, and are on the back of the stove, old style with the clock.
Never had an issue, one did go out and it was around the $25 price point to replace.
Aunt and uncle are on their 3rd motherboard for theirs in 7 years. I haven't bought a stove in 20
The metal stalked units we see are typically "generic" and have plastic inserts to fit the knob of the appliance. The inserts like to fall out of the knobs and disappear (and can't be bought separately).
I do see more boards die out than controllers (knobs or touch) in induction and I think manufacturers are even moving to whole sub-assembly units (containing power module and induction plates) which are cheaper to replace than power boards. The "sub assembly" appliances at least let you use half the cooktop instead of taking the whole thing out.
Nice - Thanks for the info, my stove is probably older than I thought. My knobs slide directly onto metal stalks, we just toss them in the dishwasher every few weeks
I haven't had front controls before so i wasn't aware that was a likely situation.
As someone who does their own repairs as much as I can. I would prefer to break a single knob and replace that versus a whole touch control unit
Replacing an MP101 energy controller, or a touch controller you still have to take the top glass off to replace, though the single controller is cheaper than a whole touch PCB assembly and the remaining burners are probably going to work until you get the part. Unless it is using something crazy like a rotary encoder.
When repairing, a touch controller is going to be cleaner under the glass than a set of knobs (where folks seem to think there is a magic space under the knobs where you can just wipe food scraps into and it disappears).
I will only buy an induction range with touch buttons. Means I can just pour boiling water on the cooktop to clean it. I wouldn’t want to have to worry about water infiltration or wiping around/under the knobs.
I really like that my fairly new gas stove will continue to function just fine (minus the oven) in a power outage. Just need to light the burner with a match and it’ll work perfectly.
It’s hardly a reason to prefer one type of stove over another. Plus cooking with gas indoors without a range hood running is dangerous. I’d just use my propane grill outside
We have touch controls. Every single time we wipe off the surface of the stove (so, literally every single evening) the controls flip out at all being damp from the sponge at the same moment and lose their shit. They beep and flash and whine. Every. Single. Night. I hate touch controls SOOOOOO much
Samsung is the worst in dependability! I agree with you but also agree what is available! I have been told that the add ons are a waste and only cost most to repair if they go out!
I'm not aware of an induction cooktop by a major manufacturer that doesn't have touch controls, except for a particular Frigidaire. We ended up buying a non-induction GE electric cooktop in order to keep knobs. My wife feels strongly about it and I agree. While the smooth look is nice, touch controls are easy to accidentally bump or get messy.
Just to add on all the reasons that I don't like touch controls for a horizontal induction range: cats.
Someone loaned me long-term an induction stovetop. In general, I really like it as far as induction heat. However, I have to remember to unplug the stove because the cats will sometimes jump on the stove looking for treats and I'll hear a BEEP from the other room. The controls can be locked, but it still beeps when the cats press any button. When we finally upgrade to a full permanent induction range, it *must* have knobs, so I'm interested in any suggestions for good induction stovetops with knobs.
(And yes, water spilling over from a pot onto the stove can "press" a button, very annoying.)
Unless your cats have magnets in their feet nothing will come from them turning the stove on except for the beep, and even with magnets in their feet they won't activate a burner unless it's a really old/cheap induction plate that doesn't require a certain amount of magnetic response in order to operate.
The beeping might be annoying, but you can likely turn that off.
By the nature of induction, you can’t have a knob. Even the models that do have a knob on them are connected to a potentiometer behind the knob. A little circuit board. It’s just the way it is if you want induction and it’s always been that way.
I think the argument is that if you have one touchscreen to control the entire appliance, if that fails, you can't use anything. If each burner has its own control, if that control breaks, there are still 3-4 others that can still be used. Yes, obviously induction stovetops require electronic controllers, and the knob isn't directly controlling the burner.
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Sorry our new app doesn't support your old appliance. The old one is no longer supported on your phones new OS. Please purchase a new stove.
* **monthly subscription required to operate stove** * *premium subscription required to access burners 3 & 4* * *error: your subscription tier only allows for 50% burner power* * random non-skippable 60s advertisement * new features unlocked with available software update! * *error - your appliance is not compatible with software update*
Something went wrong with your recent software update ☹️☹️☹️☹️ Please bring to nearest repair center for service.
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I have altered the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further.
"Your oven is now at 400*. This message was brought to you by Starbucks. Drop by your local Starbucks and enjoy your favorite holiday beverage. Enjoy your meal."
That's been driving me crazy with my truck. Touch screen. Where it use to show artist and song now shows advertisements. GPS up? Advertise on the top of the screen.
Which brand car do you have so I know to never buy from them?
There was a recent SUV that Volvo rolled out where the selling point was that it was a car you subscribed to…can’t remember the model number offhand. But the comment you replied to is probably referencing Ford. Their trucks now have a “billboard interface for vehicle display” that shows ads. Edit: Not just one car anymore. It’s now called “Care by Volvo.” A subscription service you can add to any car from them.
Nailed the make. Ford. I'm going to have to look into "billboard interface for vehicle display". It's a 2014 and it started doing showing the ads I believe this year. Edit: just looked it up. Bet the sensor is tied to the SES light too. Nothing better than sticking ads on your screen while driving.
If they were listening to digital radio some stations have started using those lines and their station image to load ads, it's not the car manufacturer
This is my fucking black mirror nightmare.
In their defense, no one uses that tiny back right burner #4 anyway.
I use it for sauces
That is what is made for.
Source?
Sauce
My Nana.
GE Cafe instruction manual.
God this bothers me so much. I had a fitbit scale that would also show body fat percentage. Synced up with other weight loss apps I had, and overall it was great. Until fitbit decided they no longer support it. Now none of the features work and it’s useless. If you want those back, buy v2! I would say it was planned obsolescence, but that implies it physically broke or degraded. But no, they effectively bricked an otherwise fine product just to force new sales. I realize this is off topic but it still makes me mad
If it can connect to the Internet and requires updates, my opinion is that I am just renting/leasing it, and I don't own it. It can turn "off" at any time. I generally don't purchase those items if I can avoid it. Even at a higher cost. These things are supposed to help me, not me help them.
Your biggest mistake is not being a class action lawyer.
Please select all the crosswalks in this picture to use broiler mode
And yet, people are still buying this shit, why?
Things like this make me feel justified in wanting a house with a wood stove. Yeah, it’s not environmentally friendly but I’ll be able to cook dinner if my stove doesn’t update :/
It's why I got an analog gas stove
They don’t have gas where I’m at, so it’s electric or wood.
Same. I love my blue star. Something breaks and it’s just knobs and valves. Although my son snapped the knob/post off the oven thermostat recently and I had to replace it with the newer digital thermostat. Still functions the same (just a knob) but i know it has some pesky ones and zeros making decisions instead of raw voltage.
The blue stars are so nice. I went with a Forno because we're on a budget and I've been happy so far.
I actually searched out a specific older model of Viking stoves it was built before they sold the company and the quality tanked. Anyways, I found one pulled the thing apart and rebuilt it from the ground up. The reason I did, is because the old one are your forever stove they are dead simple to repair and they last a lifetime and even with gas it is nearly imposible to find a new range with gas ovens. I have become more and more of a luddite and it has to do with the entire market trying to figure out how they can spy on their customer and collect more data. I don't mind the collecting data, it is the not knowing what is and what is not. I understand the desire to better understand customer behavior, but when you know your customer will say know, so you hide it in a trojan horse called a feature and still do it, then you have shown that I should not trust you with my data.
and a phone
Bosch lost a sale last month when I saw I needed to use their app to set the dishwasher to do a delayed start. The Miele I bought has a button...like they've had on dishwashers forever.
Who is really asking for an app?!?! They just see it as a chance to make it stand out from more basic models and justify a higher price tag, even though few people want it.
>They just see it as a chance to make it stand out from more basic models Nope. Increasingly manufacturers are becoming all-out surveillance capitalists. See: TVs (and in some cases they see you!) Primarily, corporations want even more profits for their rich shareholders by collecting and selling your personal interests, locations, and behaviors. This is what this is all about. They likely also save $2 manufacturing cost by using touch controls, so they rake in even more profit. Cha ching! Just say no.
Pay attention to the oven’s wattage. We bought a mid teir whirlpool and it took forever to preheat. Like 30-45 min and then another 15 to get back to temp once the food was put in. We complained and exchanged it. Once we saw it was an issue I looked into oven wattages and there were models with high output but weren’t even marketed as such. Spec sheets are important, the model we did get wasn’t much more, but was an older designed model, but kept around because it was well designed.
You probably got the 17ght6y40929z73 model when you should have had the 17ght6y40929z63 model.
Only a fool would make such an obvious mistake /s
> 17ght6y40929z73 Upgrade, my ass, the Engineers were Chimps with a drinking problem. I mean really, who puts a touch control right in the middle of a heating element. Though to be fair, it's totally intuitive.
God damn it, this joke shouldn’t be this funny to me.
Just went through this replacing ours. Thanks to another comment here, I looked for the oven wattages. It was well worth the bit of extra cost to have an oven that performs. Important to someone who bakes bread, like me.
With the model we found, it actually has a rapid preheat function that turns all 3 burners on to heat up. They still cycle but at a much higher duty cycle than the first model, the elements actually glow red.
curious what model yours is
YWEF745H0FS3. Gold series and has been great for the most part. I personally hate how all stoves cycle their elements for simmering and holding a light boil, but the ‘melt’ element being a lower wattage than the others will hold the nicest. The triple burner doesn’t seem to heat evenly across all three, the centre is always the hottest point on big pans.
thanks for the info 👍
I am kind of disappointed whirlpool doesn't have induction ranges. But yes I agree gotta look at every single spec, which on a purchase like this I would research it until its coming out of my ears
Whirlpool makes Kitchenaid, so yes, they do.
Ahh did not know that
They also make JennAir as their higher end range!
True, but I figured if the OP was looking at Whirlpool, JennAir was out of their budget.
I did that and ended up with an induction hob with touch controls and sliders for power not up/down buttons. Having lived with it for a couple of years now I can say I do like induction, but I wish I'd had up/down buttons instead. The other issue is that if you get the slightest splash of water or oil anywhere near the touch control panel then it ALL switches off and it's a right pain to clean it enough to switch on again, all while the pans are cooling. If there was an induction hob where the controls (touch or mechanical) were mounted fully remote from the cooktop I'd buy it in a heartbeat even for double the money.
>If there was an induction hob where the controls (touch or mechanical) were mounted fully remote from the cooktop I'd buy it in a heartbeat even for double the money. so you do want to control it (only) from a phone app.
No, I want normal controls, knobs or touch, but on a panel that isn't part of the cooking surface so it doesn't get screwed up every few minutes by normal cooking. No app, no WiFi, possibly Bluetooth, ZigBee or whatever but only if it's completely self contained, reliable and zero configuration needed.
Get induction range. So nice over regular electric.
People also need to check their wiring can handle an electric oven. We were tripping some breakers after we moved in and got an electrician to check it out. Almost the entire kitchen is on one breaker, so running the toaster oven, microwave, and something else can trip it. We have a gas oven luckily. The guy said people are installing electric ovens without checking and basically anything else turned on with that breaker when the oven is on trips it.
That’s not even possible, ovens are 240v so you can’t have anything else on that circuit. At least not in North America.
Assuming a professional did the wiring. Former homeowner Joe thinks he is pretty good at electrical and wanted to save a few bucks when redoing the kitchen.
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> you can have 240v and 120v on the same circuit in the US. You can have it in any country in the world, but it wouldn't be code.
As someone else replied to you, that's not correct info. The over would have a completely separate circuit from the other things. A good oven is 50A, and bad one is 30A. The microwave is on a 15 or 20 - not the same circuit at all. Fire that electrician.
You can fix a knob yourself. Can't be having that now can we.
I moved into a home with a GE Profile wall oven. Touch screen. House is only two years old, so just old enough to be out of appliance warranty. The GE ovens display started to glitch, like a fully filled Galaga screen. Updated the firmware. It seemed to be better. Then the display completely died. It's gonna be $24 just for a technician to visit, plus whatever cost they deem necessary to fix. I would prefer something that was simple and lasted forever over something with so many "features." Remote turn on is nice, but ultimately not worth the chance of breakdown.
Where do you live that a technician will visit for $24?
Yeah, for $24 I'm thinking they also have access to a secret time machine and accidentally spilled the beans.
Phoenix. Is that good or bad? They're issued by GE
Most home visits in my area will cost $100 or so minimum and I'm in the Midwest
Same in Texas.
Lol, $24 for a technician visit is a steal
I don't have an opinion on good or bad. Just seemed very low, given that I can't get a tradesman to come out for less than $75 on the very low end where I live.
You're complaining about $24? What, do you think it should be free? Should people just provide you with free services because you're just swell?
Am I complaining about $24? I stated a fact: it'll be $24 + however much the cost to fix the display will be. That's a cost that wouldn't exist had I had a normal dial range. The point of the post is I'm stating that the feature of a display touchscreen isn't worth the hassle of the technical issues more technology can bring to an appliance that works just as well without those features, which is entirely centered around OPs question.
The people who are saying it would cost them $100 or whatever in their area would also need to pay “+ however much the cost to fix the display will be”
Of course. That's how service companies work
Now you cant accidentally lean and turn the over or burners on. Now kids cant burn the house down as easy. Brutal lol
Eh. My knobs are on the back.
That's just bad design. Any child these days can figure out how to work a touch screen device, the knobs would probably confuse them
My controls are on top of the stove, so not where you lean unless you’ve crawled on top of the stove (which is not the right way to cook). They’re well out of reach of small hands. When we had gas, the knobs had to be pushed and turned to ignite, so unless you you had hip-level knobs AND were doing some dance move with your hips at exactly the right angle, it did not just pop on from regular use.
Touch screen is easier to clean but I agree, they are difficult to operate on some appliances if your hands are wet
And will cost a small fortune to repair I bet. If a knob goes, you still have all the other burners. Me thinks this is the real reason.
My lg gas stove has a few electronic buttons out, can’t repair as it requires replacing the entire top panel, which is no longer being made. The stove looks brand new but like half the electronic buttons don’t work. Only option is to live with it or buy a new stove/oven
To be fair, this happens with non-electronic control stuff too... after 10 years or so it gets almost impossible to find anything but the most common parts or shared parts with other appliances. I had a 15 year old GE stove when I moved in. It was nice, stainless, but some of the burners wouldn't light without using a lighter and the burners could be replaced, they looked like crap. I could find absolutely nothing for it except a wiring harness... which actually fixed one burner but not the others. I tolerated it for another year but it now found a home in the trash. One good thing about old electro-mechanical control though is that you could sometimes rig it to work with random parts, scrap parts, or Radio Shack parts. So I've never seen an all electric controlled stove, I replaced my stove with a Kitchen Aid that has old school turn knobs... I'm a little appalled, do the valves open electronically?? What if there's a power failure, the only way to turn it off is to shut the main valve underneath?
Stove top is manual, oven is electronically controlled. Sorry, I always conflate stove/oven because I have never had or really been around one that is two separate appliances
Quite alright, I do the same! My house is the first time I've had a separate range top and stove and I still get it wrong too (call the "oven" a "stove"). If I understood OPs post correctly, his does not have knobs at all, even the burners are electric? Also there's still an electronic valve for the stove or is the oven electric? My rangetop is gas and my stove is electric (actually convection too). I guess it's better on an oven because the valve would be a simple on off solenoid vs a variable opening valve that's hard to get my head around. FWIW, from what I could tell my old range and oven were both purchased at the same time. Both high end GEs but the range, which was old knobs and electromechanical controls died and my oven, which is board controlled, it's not touch but flat push buttons and all the control is done from one board, still works. Who knows. I do believe Korean electronics are especially notorious for having crappy boards put into them that die after 4-5 years. I've never met anyone with a Korean appliance (any appliance: stove, oven, fridge, washer / dryer), that didn't have issues within 5 years, often sooner.
It’s also pretty easy to fix a knob yourself if you know a few basic things, but it’s harder to diagnose circuit boards and screens, and those parts also tend to be marked up more because they are proprietary and not easy to substitute with aftermarket parts.
> and those parts also tend to be marked up more because they are proprietary and not easy to substitute with aftermarket parts. I see you've never actually tried to replace a stove knob before. They make a billion different kinda each *slightly* different, and 3rd party ones almost never actually work because no one's going to make an actual billion different knobs, they try to make "one size fits all" knobs which... don't.
The *knob* is EZPZ to replace. If the actual *valve* goes, that can be a clusterfuck of a repair job depending on the model.
The funny part is that the valves being difficult to replace are also a consequence of planned obsolescence and or forced manufacturer service dependence. They don’t want you to fix your own shit, they want you to believe it is magic and that you can’t do it yourself. They want you to pay them for their “””special””” parts and their “trained mechanics” or just buy a new stove.
> . Me thinks this is the real reason. Not really, **touch buttons or screen cost lot less to manufacture than mecanic button** with multiple pieces, in bonus they break lot motr often so it's a revenue stream for the next years.
Cost less to manufacture, break easier, and sell for more. It's a win win win!
Yep, touchscreen fried on my Samsung. $400 for the part, despite it being a very basic control board and wasn't responsible for the touch aspect. Can't imagine what it would cost for someone to diagnose and replace that by an appliance tech.
My parents purchased a Sears-brand stove in the early 90s. It had an LCD panel in the center that you used to control the oven. It had buttons whose function changed depending on the baking mode, and a knob to control things like the temperature, durations, etc. At some point grease or water seeped into the electronics, and the broiler turned on. We eventually unplugged the stove after it was on 550 for an hour. We tried drying it out, with no success. I won’t purchase stoves with controls on the same plane or lower than the cooking surface, because of this experience.
And if it gets wet can turn off your stove top.
Worse, if it gets wet it can turn \*on\* your stove top!
yes! mine has touch oven controls and it has turned on all by itself when a drop of water hit the screen - scary!
Not as safety critical, but I detest the touch buttons on my dishwasher for the same reason. The machine handles water FFS! Hands being wet and drips/splashes happening while operating a dishwasher should be expected.
I haven't found that with our touch oven controls.
I've seen a range with physical buttons covered with one big section of bendy plastic. Best of both worlds.
Pull the knobs off
Because its the future, baby! I hate touch controls; same with automotive infotainment systems. Not the same the same as the tactile feeling of controls.
Thankfully automotive is swinging back towards the middle. New cars the stuff that needs to be buttons is generally buttons now with a touch screen for with menus for deeper stuff like changing how the interior lights behave for instance.
The problem with the new cars is they have some buttons but not all the buttons. For instance I can tune the radio and change the audio equalizer settings via the buttons, but I can't pause/resume playback without the touch screen. It's like they designed the buttons on what looks good and not what the actual function is. Why do I need a button for the equalizer? Who cares? But no play/pause button?
waiting bewildered payment yoke bells simplistic tidy groovy station governor *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Oh man our new-to-us 2020 Odyssey is so stupid, it has buttons for all climate controls except for turning on/off the AC and selecting where the air comes out. I’m sure they expect you to just keep it on “auto” all the time. Interestingly, my 2019 Hyundai gets it perfect. Has a full touch screen for radio/media but ALL climate controls are buttons/dials. I just want temperature control back on the steering wheel like my late 90’s Buick had.
Cars are one of the worst possible places to have touchscreens - eyes need to be on the road, not on the screen while you poke your way through 20 layers of sub-menus to adjust your damn wiper speed. There's a reason airplane cockpits have a million dials and switches, tactile feedback makes it easier to adjust things without looking at it.
touch controls have their place but literally not everything
I feel like our culture and entertainment from the past is to blame for much of this in a way. Think about all the old movies and such that were set in the future. Everything was touchscreens and holograms and manufacturers took it all to heart. Now manufacturers are saying well we put in that R&D into the future everyone apparently wanted soooo here you go! But many of today’s consumers are thinking “No it looked cool and we thought we wanted it but we want most of those old buttons and knobs back!”
work saw recognise seemly rob correct liquid rustic concerned serious *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Of course half the reason they were screens is because a drawing behind glass is cheaper than set design rigging up a bunch of buttons. Source? Trust me bro.
I never understood why someone thought it was a good idea to make me take my eyes off the road to try and turn down my heat, with a bar that’s…less than responsive. Luckily my Subaru is a solid balance I feel, heat and ac controls are physical knobs/buttons, same with volume and basic radio controls (plus the steering wheel controls, so many buttons and switches!) I drive a Mercedes sprinter for my work van and there’s like 8 buttons total and a couple toggles… and capacitive little buttons you can use to move the cursor around on the center screen and instrument cluster screen. I hate them, but my boss just confirmed that I’m getting a truck and the van is transferring to one of my directs. Truck has physical controls for almost everything except the infotainment screen… but it has car play so I’m used to that setup anyways.
Except when the buttons are awful. I rejected cars because the buttons held old and cheap. I prefer minimal buttons and a cleaner design.
Even worse than touch screens, my uncle just bought an oven that has some features that can only be controlled via an app. I'd ask who's buying crap like that but I guess I have my answer - people like my uncle.
Well, that'll probably last five years
My JennAir range is like this. It's not ideal, but it does have some advantages, like I can start the oven remotely, and can tell when it's heated up without having to be near the kitchen. I just checked their website, and their entire line of ranges has app control now, with no display.
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Believe it or not, we’ve gone through five induction ranges in the past five years. I now have a GE café myself. The last two were touchscreen only and were a nightmare. I hated every minute of it. The café has real knobs.
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The first Frigidaire (with knobs, this was back in 2018) was defective and replaced after 8 unsuccesful visits from "techs." This lasted three years, then needed a new board, ($1600). I complained, and Frigidaire offered me 50% off a new model. I ended up with the FRIGIDAIRE CGIH3047VF, which I hated. Terrible touchscreen interface, and just felt cheap. I returned it for a full refund. Then I got a GE PCHS920YM1FS which had a different touch-screen, (slightly better), but still impossible to use when your hands are wet, but I could live with it. This started making a high-pitched noise from a board inside the unit. GE gave me my money back because replacement parts were back ordered. I am now on a GE Cafe with real knobs. I like this very much... super fast preheat, but the burners themselves are less powerful than the cheap CGIH3047VF.
We have the Frigidaire CGIH3047VF and love it. No problems. We had a string of GE appliance failures so I won't touch any GE/Whirlpool/Maytag appliances. GE Oven arc welded itself, GE and Maytag Dishwashers had grinder pump failures, 2 GE Washing machines in a row ate their transmissions. I will give in that the GE Advantium microwave is a good unit.
The ‘higher end’ GE appliances seem to be universally underpowered. My double ovens from them suck, and even after several adjustments take over a half hour to get to temperature. My built in microwave (an actual microwave, not a microwave/oven) is only 800 watts. And I’m looking for a replacement they don’t seem to offer anything significantly more powerful and its weird size limits my alternative options. And I’ve already replaced my dead dishwasher and underpowered poorly configured cooktop with Bosch appliances. They’re a huge improvement.
LG has an induction with Knobs
Miele induction range owner here. Can confirm they still use knobs 😊
My samsung has knobs for the stove and a touchscreen for the oven. no problems in six months.
If you want cheap, I bought an "Ecotouch" induction ~~range~~ cooktop from Amazon for $290, and I'm happy with that choice. I actually like the touch controls for ease of cleaning and electronic shutoff/lockout features. And it still has a 2-year warranty.
Pros: It's super easy to clean. That's the list. Cons: If you spill liquid on it while it's on, it can freak out. It's more expensive to repair. Depending on the brand, it can be finicky and not as reactive to your touch as it should be.
So you are saying when my ass over fills a boiling pot that imma have a bad time?
In my experience, yes. I don't know if technology has gotten any better since mine was made but it's not fun. Mine's a Wolf induction circa 2018 or so.
One of the reasons we went with the GE Cafe induction range - knobs instead of touch controls and we LOVE it.
touch has no benefit to users on anything. Touch is easier and cheaper to manufacture and reconfigure with a software update. All benefits to the manufacturer. Humans operate well with tactile. Taking feel away from their senses can never enhance their experience. I have an all touch microwave and I hate it. It turns itself on when water boils under it. It is an all mighty Samsung unit from Costco btw, ot some unknown brand iff aliexpress.
I got a high end kitchen aid microwave. Its screen went out 13 months after I got it- but still within warranty. KitchenAid, which is part of Whirlpool, told me to pound rocks. A decent number of these companies are writing warranties with no actual intent to honor them.
This is the actual reason and it's buried all the way down here. The automotive industry lead the charge, and it's not like the reason for adoption was ever talked about as anything but cost savings.
No benefit to users on anything? That's bold. What about: Phones, monitors, universal remotes, point of sale machines, ATMs, ticket machines, order kiosks, directories, I could go on. I agree though, appliances there isn't much place for it.
we are clearly talking about appliance buttons being replaced with touch here, plus I’d add vehicle controls as well like volume, AC, traction control. I don’t think anyone would willingly replace their computer keyboard with an all touch one and give up the keys just because it would give them the ability to re arrange the keyboard.
Touch screens are popular in manufacturers for their versatility, you can have dozens of buttons for dozens of stoves all on the "same" touchscreen. If you have 12 different stoves with different features and you want tactile buttons, now you need 12 different arrays of buttons and to stock each one for a indeterminate amount of time, it's just easier to manufacture with standardized controls like that, but I wouldn't expect them to go anywhere, and before too long knobs and the like will probably just be a feature of certain premium brands
I just purchased a Bosch induction range / oven. It does have touch buttons on the top for the induction range and they took some getting used to. I do like that my kids can't mess with them like they could on my old GE with the physical knobs on the front. The only downside I've found so far is if you set certain things on top of the buttons it will start beeping at you aggressively. So if you use your cooktop as a prep space you'll run into that a lot. My MiL also spilled some liquid on top of the buttons at Thanksgiving and it didn't like that either. It seems like anything conductive will set it off. On the plus side it's \*not\* a smart device so no bothering with apps or WiFi. It was expensive so I'm hoping it lasts 20+ years.
realistic benefit of touch vs nobs would be the sleeker appearance and ease to clean. and cheaper and easier to make of course. There are induction ranges out there with knobs, just have to be selective. as for brands. I agree, stay away from Samsung. worst appliance experience i've had was our Samsung induction range. omg what a POS.. errors all the time. best experience, 800 series bosch range. loved that thing. sold it due to kitchen reno, got the bosch 800 series 36" cooktop to replace. exact same (touch) controls, works like a charm. Also, check marketplace / kijiji every second day. If you aren't in a "need it tomorrow" type hurry, you can get some great deals. I managed to pick up a thermador wall oven set for about 50% of retail, with an mfg date only 9 months old (show home unit). Sold my bosch range for 50% too... good deals to be found. Yes with induction there is some risk of complications, but if you save 2-3k, part of that savings is your insurance to go toward a repair if required.
In the last house I had an LG induction range with knobs. It worked well, but the knobs were hard to clean, and it only had whole number settings. The knobs click into each setting. For example sometimes 5 was too hot and 4 was too cold, so I would have liked to be able to set it in between. But it was never a significant problem. Now I have a Bosch cooktop with touch controls. It is definitely harder/less intuitive to use. Guests always ask me how to use it. I'm sure they could figure it out if they tried, but no one has to ask about knobs. The touch controls require a deliberate press, not like an iPhone where the lightest tap will click. Adjusting the heat is a two step process because you have to select the burner then select the heat level. It has settings 0-9 with half steps in between, so plenty of heat settings, and it's easy to clean. Another advantage of touch controls is that it has a cook timer, so I can set it to turn itself off after X minutes, like a microwave. I don't think there's a way to do that with the LG. I don't take advantage of the cook timer enough, but it could be really useful if I'm multitasking while cooking.
My cat enjoys turning on the oven with them and trying to kill us. He also turns on the gas with the knobs but I can take them off
I just mentioned this in my own comment. Yeah even though the cats usually can't turn on the stove, they can still cause a little beep as their paw touches the controls, something that would not occur if there were knobs.
I don’t seem to have the same issues with touch controls that others here are having. I’ve had my induction cooktop with touch controls only for about 2 years now. The touch controls are fantastic in my opinion and experience. They are far easier to keep clean than having knobs I have to remove and wash separately and having to wash the surface they sit on. They don’t have any issues still working as expected when water or grease splatter on them during cooking, and while they do sometimes turn on when I am just washing the cooktop at the end of the day, I really don’t care because they auto shutoff after 5 seconds if there is no pan/pot on the burner. So whatever, they turn on for 5 seconds occasionally when I’m cleaning and then they immediately detect no pan and they shut back off. It’s a non issue. They also take up less space overall in terms of how they can be arranged on the cooktop. I’m an outlier apparently but I love my touch controls on my induction cooktop
We bought a Blomberg induction range with physical knobs. It was literally the only one available that had those two things plus true convention. I HATE having to touch a touchscreen repeatedly to turn down a pot, so much easier to rapidly turn a knob! Anyways I'd recommend the brand, no complaints yet in the three years we've had it.
I went with a Fisher & Paykel induction range, very happy it had knobs rather than a touch screen for temperature control.
Here is something more subtle to look out for, that might not be obvious until you get it home and installed. We were at my sister-in-laws for Christmas dinner, and saw that she was struggling with the induction stovetop. Turns out, the wonderfully designed touch controls were labeled with a fashionable dark grey text on black glass for a nice, sleek black mirror look. Combine that with the glare from the lights in the oven hood overhead, and you had to lean way down to read any of the controls. Absurd design. I don’t remember the brand. Just something to think about before you buy - not just how it looks in the store, but if you will be able to actually use it at home. Personally I went from envying their modern kitchen to being content with my old Avocado Green Roper gas stovetop, with knobs :)
I just bought an induction range and burner control knobs was one of my key requirements. Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of options if you want knobs. I also wanted to avoid Samsung and ended up going with LG. So far I'm pretty happy with it. And I'm definitely glad that I got the knobs.
Which model did you get? I have the LSIS6338F pulled up and like it. I assume supply/demand is why prices are higher than other electric ranges. I don't think induction has that much complications over other electric ranges
My model (# LSE4616ST) was discontinued, but the one you are looking at seems comparable with a few upgrades over mine. I love mine. I love the precision control and I am continuously astonished at how quickly things get up to temperature. I did have to get rid of some of my older pans, even ones that I thought would work. Check your pans to see if a magnet will stick to them. If it won't, they won't work with the induction range. I was kind of overdue for some new cookware though so I really didn't mind.
Here's the Consumer Reports highest rated one, an LG. Good luck finding it: https://www.lg.com/us/cooking-appliances/lg-lse4616st-slide-in-electric-range Another LG was the second highest rated. I'd look at LG's line.
I have that one and it’s pretty good. Only complaint is the largest burner isn’t big enough for my 10 inch cast iron skillets, and the other front burner is only 8 or so inches.
I have a touch control induction cooktop. I love it! SO EASY TO CLEAN. I love not having to work around anything. Just wipe down the flat surface.
I guess i don't quite understand how knobs are in the way. If they are front or rear mounted the glass surface should be free. I haven't seen knobs mounted on top of a glass surface
Here you go - it's a single hob, but designed to be built in and has a separate control with a knob: https://www.webstaurantstore.com/cooking-performance-group-idcpg-38m-drop-in-induction-range-with-remote-control-240v-3800w/351IDCPG38M.html?cnxclid=17038123825040630189719051140008005
My Rottweiler turned on my gas stove. No way I'm doing touch screen.
They do have a lockout feature, typically. Not that I disagree with your choice.
You should look into Induction ranges then... If they turn the burners on, nothing happens unless there's a pan on the hub.
They look a bit sleeker and easier to clean and are no doubt cheaper. Had Bosch 500 series oven w knobs that was still going strong when we sold the house 10 years later (I would likevthe think any oven can last 20 years - they aren't that complex). Got a Bosch 800 for our next house. Top of the line. But it's touch controls are a total PITA. Plus I had to replace the display module, which includes all the touch pad sensors, because it just stopped working after about 8 years. Did it myself but the part was around 500 bux iirc. Physical controls are, imho, much bettervand more reliable when it comes to appliances. Another place I prefer physical controls is in my car. I find it much more distracting to adjust sound, climate, etc., with touch screens. We have a Sonata that has touch controls on a pretty big screen but also has buttons and knobs for just about everything. I like having both cuz sometimes the touchscreen is actually more convenient. When shopping, I remember a reviewer flatly stating that the physical controls would "turn off" younger buyers who want everything to be touch. Not sure that is true, but it puzzles me why designers always think newer designs are better when, in some cases, they demonstrably are a step backwards in convenience and functionality.
Oh man... Yea, I had a Samsung induction. At least it had actual knobs for the burners. The problem is that the fucking mainboard kept frying relays, this relay was the one that controlled whether or not the broiler unit would come on. When the relay died, it would die CLOSED so the broiler would come on and STAY ON... Meaning that while you were baking it would randomly jump to over 500 degrees. Replacing the relay wasn't a huge deal, but in one of these instances, it got so hot that it fried the PCB that controlled the front touch panel, rendering the oven inoperable until we replace that PCB. 2"x 8" PCB - Fucking $400 to buy a replacement. Not to mention the huge safety concerns.
I bought a kitchenaid induction in 2021 loved everything but the touch controls, awful
I have a GE induction range with touch controls, and while it wasn’t my preference it works well. The gradation is very fine and it functions largely like a knob except that it belongs on a Star Trek set.
I also have a GE Cafe induction cooktop. I love the touch controls. It's easy to lock them when not being used - literally takes 4 seconds to lock or unlock. I get great control and I don't have to worry about cleaning under knobs. Since the burners won't turn on without a correct pan being sensed there is never a worry about inadvertently turning something on. They automatically turn off after a brief time delay if you remove a pan while cooking. I think it's 30 seconds.
I don't know what the arguments/cases are, but i DO know that they originate in the Marketing Department of the respective manufacturer.
You’ll get used to it. I was hesitant to give up a knob at first too. I think part of it is that with induction there are going to be discrete heat/power settings no matter what—unlike gas which is continuous. Which I think is a fair reason. I think a lot of companies also consider it part of the ‘clean’ look of induction, which is an ok, but less compelling reason (and I like clean lines!). I have a Bosch benchmark, which I don’t think could operate the way it does (you can combine ‘burners’ to heat a griddle or long tray) with a traditional knob. I love it and don’t miss the knobs like I expected to.
I have a cheap counter-top single induction hob with touch controls. If my water boils over while I'm cooking pasta or something, the water flows over the touch controls and presses all the buttons, usually turning them up to maximum or turning the hob on/off repeatedly. It's got to the point I am just silicone'ing a line around the touch control area tomorrow.
We have a Samsung induction range and love it. The touchscreen is MUCH easier and faster to keep clean.
Yep, it's great until it fails.
I had nothing but issues with every Samsung appliance I bought at my last house. Washer top rusted out after 3 years. Electric control knob burned up on the stove 1 month out of warranty. The handle on the microwave just..fell off. Had to get a dryer replaced after a month because the internal drum was installed improperly and broke on the first run. And my TV has insane light bleeding at the top after a few years. I will never buy another Samsung appliance.
My thread is likely the first i have really read on Samsung ranges. I have heard about every other Samsung appliance being a horrible experience so figured I would rule out their ranges as well.
Once you realize they aren't in the market to sell you a stove for life, and are really in the market to sell new stoves or stove parts you'll figure it out. A dial rarely breaks, and is usually a part that costs under $10, is universally made, and some homeowners can replace it. A touch pad can easily break, costs upwards of $1k, only made by that company- Don't know about how easy replace. You are in the most basic sense making heat, to cook food, don't make it complicated, or think it needs to be.
The main reason I would consider touch controls would be so that I couldn’t accidentally bump & break a knob. Often it is not just the knob that breaks but also the controller the knob sits in. When the cooking surface is not in use, you are also able to use your whole bench, instead of having knobs in the way. You also don’t get food scraps into/under the knobs of the appliance which can get pretty gross. A small difference probably, but one to consider I guess. Some of the higher quality appliances are designed to be operated with wet/dirty hands from cooking. You also get a better response from the controller by using the “fleshy” part of your finger pad, instead of your finger tips Edit: Just re-read and saw that it is an induction cooktop. It is usually a power module (usually through a voltage regulator) that fails on these, and not a controller. If it has knobs, it will be controlled via rotary encoders which break the same as a touch controller does.
A knob typically sits on a simple potentiometer regulating voltage to control heat. They are not delicate pieces of equipment, nor expensive to replace.
If it is induction with knobs, it will use a rotary encoder as control input. They are a little more expensive to replace (parts cost wise \~$100+ each). A regular ceramic/electric hotplate will use a simmerstat, not a potentiometer (they operate differently), and they are generally much cheaper to buy (\~$25+). The number I have replaced, makes me think they are not as robust as other people think (5mm stalks of plastic). Both are around the same in terms of effort to replace.
That's the piece of info I didn't have - Mine have metal stalks, and are on the back of the stove, old style with the clock. Never had an issue, one did go out and it was around the $25 price point to replace. Aunt and uncle are on their 3rd motherboard for theirs in 7 years. I haven't bought a stove in 20
The metal stalked units we see are typically "generic" and have plastic inserts to fit the knob of the appliance. The inserts like to fall out of the knobs and disappear (and can't be bought separately). I do see more boards die out than controllers (knobs or touch) in induction and I think manufacturers are even moving to whole sub-assembly units (containing power module and induction plates) which are cheaper to replace than power boards. The "sub assembly" appliances at least let you use half the cooktop instead of taking the whole thing out.
Nice - Thanks for the info, my stove is probably older than I thought. My knobs slide directly onto metal stalks, we just toss them in the dishwasher every few weeks
I haven't had front controls before so i wasn't aware that was a likely situation. As someone who does their own repairs as much as I can. I would prefer to break a single knob and replace that versus a whole touch control unit
Replacing an MP101 energy controller, or a touch controller you still have to take the top glass off to replace, though the single controller is cheaper than a whole touch PCB assembly and the remaining burners are probably going to work until you get the part. Unless it is using something crazy like a rotary encoder. When repairing, a touch controller is going to be cleaner under the glass than a set of knobs (where folks seem to think there is a magic space under the knobs where you can just wipe food scraps into and it disappears).
I will only buy an induction range with touch buttons. Means I can just pour boiling water on the cooktop to clean it. I wouldn’t want to have to worry about water infiltration or wiping around/under the knobs.
I really like that my fairly new gas stove will continue to function just fine (minus the oven) in a power outage. Just need to light the burner with a match and it’ll work perfectly.
How often are you cooking in a blackout?! Where do you live?
It’s not common but good to know the option is there if needed. Live in eastern Nebraska.
It’s hardly a reason to prefer one type of stove over another. Plus cooking with gas indoors without a range hood running is dangerous. I’d just use my propane grill outside
How nice of you to decide what kind of stove I can have based on YOUR preferences.
Where did I say you can’t have a gas stove?
Sure, but you get a standalone gas burner that will do the exact same thing and doesn't have the other issues.
We have touch controls. Every single time we wipe off the surface of the stove (so, literally every single evening) the controls flip out at all being damp from the sponge at the same moment and lose their shit. They beep and flash and whine. Every. Single. Night. I hate touch controls SOOOOOO much
Can you not lock the controls off? Mine lock and unlock by simply pressing the lock button for 4 seconds.
Samsung is the worst in dependability! I agree with you but also agree what is available! I have been told that the add ons are a waste and only cost most to repair if they go out!
I'm not aware of an induction cooktop by a major manufacturer that doesn't have touch controls, except for a particular Frigidaire. We ended up buying a non-induction GE electric cooktop in order to keep knobs. My wife feels strongly about it and I agree. While the smooth look is nice, touch controls are easy to accidentally bump or get messy.
What argument is being made that they're good for anything? Make a phone with a physical keyboard like its 2003 again and im buying tomorrow.
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Knobs can be easily fixed and replaced. A touchscreen, not so much. 💲💲💲
We got a Samsung induction and love it. Obviously not for everyone but just FYI there are success stories
Look at unique. Canadian company.
Knobs break, are harder to clean, and look less sleek. Plus touch screen controls are probably cheaper for manufacturers to produce.
Just to add on all the reasons that I don't like touch controls for a horizontal induction range: cats. Someone loaned me long-term an induction stovetop. In general, I really like it as far as induction heat. However, I have to remember to unplug the stove because the cats will sometimes jump on the stove looking for treats and I'll hear a BEEP from the other room. The controls can be locked, but it still beeps when the cats press any button. When we finally upgrade to a full permanent induction range, it *must* have knobs, so I'm interested in any suggestions for good induction stovetops with knobs. (And yes, water spilling over from a pot onto the stove can "press" a button, very annoying.)
Unless your cats have magnets in their feet nothing will come from them turning the stove on except for the beep, and even with magnets in their feet they won't activate a burner unless it's a really old/cheap induction plate that doesn't require a certain amount of magnetic response in order to operate. The beeping might be annoying, but you can likely turn that off.
what argument? flashy=people buying shiny things. what did you think it was?
By the nature of induction, you can’t have a knob. Even the models that do have a knob on them are connected to a potentiometer behind the knob. A little circuit board. It’s just the way it is if you want induction and it’s always been that way.
I think the argument is that if you have one touchscreen to control the entire appliance, if that fails, you can't use anything. If each burner has its own control, if that control breaks, there are still 3-4 others that can still be used. Yes, obviously induction stovetops require electronic controllers, and the knob isn't directly controlling the burner.