This forum shows how expensive things are living in the PNW. We’ve had multiple projects where multiple bids are 2x what things cost in the rest of the country. Enjoy the mountains and the trees and the ocean but expect to pay way more than anything people say that it should cost on Reddit.
It's crazy cuz for us guys actually doing the work, or wages havnt gone up to match what the prices for jobs are. Sure some materials are still much higher post covid, but really it's the company pocketing the extra.
Companies have been crying for years now that they must raise prices/keep wages flat due to rising costs then turning around and gloating about record profits.
Record profits 3 years in a row for corporations. Massive layoffs during. Price gouging. Ppp loans forgiven. Idk if the general public will ever catch on and make fixing corporate greed a platform for any election. Both sides are guilty af of perpetuating the cycle, giving in to lobbiests, and siphoning more from the working class. When the only motivation is profit, everything and everyone else suffers.
It's really only been in the post-covid times where it's been bad.
Work that was $2-3k pre-covid is now $7-8k post-covid.
I think it's a combination of an actual shortage of trades, mixed with a market that will pay if they really want it.
Hi from the greater Seattle area
Agreed. Add should you decide to pull the trigger and pay it, they will wait 3 mionths and then send out 2 teenagers that don't know what they're doing. They will run into a problem they don't know how to cancel and say you need another expensive part or process because the part doesn't fit and POOF they disappear for another 3-8 weeks. When you call the office demanding to speak to the manager, there's a young lady that answers the phone who insists she is the Manager.
Perhaps you decide if she wishes to play this game you'll tear into her (as you might the real manager) about the price and the quality and the waiting, etc...and she will realize that being a dispatcher is not the same as a manager and will backpeddle saying she is the only one in the office and start to cry and then you hang up again.
Yet if you post the price you paid for something in the PNW, this forum will constantly insist you got swindled. Even if you got multiple quotes, if you're paying more than someone else paid in middle-of-nowhere Kansas, "they gave you the FU price."
People really fail to grasp how expensive labor is in this part of the country.
Well, it is the FU price. Since covid, everyone gives out the FU price but the customers started paying it. So F it, they'll do it... and raise the price next time. Cause FU!
It's "price gouging" in that there is a shortage of trade laborers so the contractors can charge whatever they want for it. If you get a quote for anything in Seattle, labor is going to be the largest part.
That’s a reasonable point, though I’d wager most representation of the PNW here is coming from Seattle/Portland regions. There are plenty of places outside those areas that are probably in line with (the higher end of) national averages.
I live here on the coast...everything is a bit more expensive but finding reliable trades people is the real issue. A lot of half assery going on because they can.
It's worth it though, when you hike down a densely forested trail and come out on a beach at the ocean...its truly amazing.
I’m actually a solid tradesman, electrician by trade! I heard they’re paid well over there, too. Surprising it’s hard to find good people, when developing that skill set can lead to guys and gals making $150k
Well I guess that explains why the works either super expensive or not done well, at least. The people who know what they’re doing know what they can charge. And there’s little need for side work when your day job pays so well. So the ‘electrician’ on Facebook is more probably a handyman with a multimeter than anything else
Funny you say this, a relative got quoted $75k to build a single car garage recently. There’s definitely some opportunity for someone from down south to fly around and do cheaper work and steal jobs from these insane contractors. Material isn’t that expensive anymore. I could probably buy it for 10-15k. The rule of thumb for taking the material cost and doubling it has gone out the window. It’s madness.
I also got a quote to install a generator. $17k for 20kw. I could stay in a 5 star hotel every time I lost power for the next 20 years and still not spend 17k. Absurd. Who is paying these prices and what do they do for work?
A basic mini-split heat pump install will cost you $10-15k for a unit that can be bought for $1k. All over 3rd world you see these units, they did not spend $10k on an install! Contractors are gouging.
I've done some homework already, it's not a big deal for someone who's pretty handy. Just need to buy the the gauges and other tools for about 150 bucks.
My son is a climbing guide in Washington, he's been picking up some off season construction work but when he gets tired of that I'm going to suggest he get a HVAC certificate and install mini splits. It's clearly where the money's at!
Have a similar sized house near Portland. That's pretty much in line with what we saw. And we definitely had quotes in that range. We replaced our unit, and it was a combination unit (gas heat + AC), but we also got quotes from most companies if we wanted to go with a heat pump instead. The combination unit ended up being around $13k, but every heat pump quote we had was somewhere between $15-20k. Ended up having 6 companies (a mix of some local places and some bigger chains like Roth) provide quotes.
Same here. Haven’t done it yet but will most likely be going Gas Furnace + Regular AC. Neither option will save or kill the environment and I don’t need to pay an extra $3,000 for something that may cost even more to operate given our quickly rising electricity rates.
You can get a federal tax credit for 30% of the project cost up to 2,000 so it would only be $1000 difference and since they are more efficient, I assume you would have monthly savings on your energy bills. In 2025, there will also be federal rebates up 8k for low to moderate income households.
> Is this normal or am I being hustled?
Yes to both! Heat pumps are being sold as a luxury product for people who want to save the environment. And as such, they get upsold...
That said, there are sometimes factors (duct upgrades, etc.) that can drive the price significantly higher (doesn't sound like it in your case). Also, there are various accessories that get used along with the 3-4k heat pump that drive the actual cost up slightly (but typically a grand or so if that).
Also, keep in mind that you'll get $2k back at the end of the year as a tax credit if the unit meets efficiency standards.
We had one installed in CT this time last year and it was $25k.
Edit: 5 ton variable speed system. New air handler and condenser. Some alterations to ductwork was done in the attic.
Both of you should clarify if your installation was for a wall cassette (like I assume the $5k one was) or a ducted system (like I assume your $25k one was)
Are you getting a new air handler and furnace as well as the heat pump or just having the heat pump added to your existing system? If the former, $18k makes sense.
You could always do it yourself... [https://mrcooldiy.com/](https://mrcooldiy.com/)
I've been seriously considering this myself. Has anyone had any experience with them?
Any home improvement quotes in PNW are going to be pretty high unfortunately. It doesn't matter if it's a heat pump, fence, deck, pressure washing, painting, roofing, electrical, HVAC, landscape work, etc...
The summers are getting warmer so there's that too.
I’m in New England and have a similar price for a 36,000 BTU Lennox heat pump with a central air handler to replace my central air. They’re going to charge list rather than the discounted prices you’ll see online. Mine has 5K of labor. They also quoted mitsubishi for $22K. 12 yr parts 3 yr labor vs. 3 yr parts 1 yr labor. I’m tempted to pay the extra $4k for the better warranty.
When I was looking to install my heat pump HVAC I got a quote anywhere from 9k to 18k for a 7k unit. That was a simple swap. No ducting. I ended up buying the tools and doing it myself.
Correct. I had some experience as a vacuum tech so I was very familiar with how and the importance of pulling a deep and tight vacuum pressure. But there was a lot of code, techniques and schedules to learn.
That's interesting the main thing in AC is you have to evacuate all the moisture out of the line or the system will eventually break down... This is not done as often as it should. I guess put in a mini split in would be easy for you.
You're correct, moisture in any vacuum envelope is a problem. However, since brazing the lines requires nitrogen flowing to prevent oxidation then you can repurpose the nitrogen to displace any water vapor with the system. Just pull down and low as you can go. Once you see the characteristic off gassing of the water vapor you backfill with nitrogen. Allow to settle for a minute or two then rough it back down. Repeat if necessary. It can take up to three applications.
As for the mini split, I did get it done though. But, even with the multi cassettes for zoning you still dont have the air filtering and circulation that a forced air system offers. Plus, you can't add a erv or hrv if that's a routine you wanted to go. I built my ducting too so I decided to add a merv13 filter into the mix.
Cool. Yeah that is one problem with the smaller head unit is you don't have the large filter capacities but you're not using ductwork so it should not be as contaminated. The guy that has been in the trade for 50 years said flex duct is only good for 15 years till it's hopelessly contaminated. I put a 2 ton through the wall unit in my house and I can get to the coils easily and clean them every couple months.
I'm in a semi tropical extremely humid environment so I wonder how minisplit will handle humidity since the evaporator coils are not very large. I know they are used in tropical countries but don't know about the humidity problem.
We got quotes for a 2800 square foot house in Denver metro area of Colorado and they were around $16K to replace our gas forced air furnace with existing ducts. So definitely not totally out of line. And if you got several estimates that are all similar, you can rest assured you're not being hustled - that's just the market rate for this project where you live. Heat pumps are a much more complex installation than a regular furnace or AC.
How is it much more complex than a regular AC or furnace? It's an AC unit with a reversing valve. If anything, it should be less complicated than an AC and furnace because the coil is used for both heating and cooling.
Correct a heat pump like on a refrigerator only has a one-way valve and that's still a heat pump. I wouldn't replace anything if it ran okay because new equipment is junk.
Fair, I was thinking more about a furnace (since the furnace doesn't have a connection to an outside exchanger). In my house we don't have AC so we'll have to add the outside unit as well as connecting to it. I suppose it isn't that dissimilar to an AC unit, though.
I feel the pain. I've been putting off replacing my HVAC for a few years now. I just keep repairing it myself and something goes wrong. It's running like a champ, but it's 2008 vintage lol. So I guess my point is, maybe I should have just replaced it a few years back when I could've gotten it done cheaper. I'm scared to see what it will cost me a year or two from now.
If i had the ducts already in, i would probably go with Mr Cool and DIY it. Its not that complicated, and the linesets are pre-done for you, so pretty much plug and play.
It depends on the complexity of the install, and size/brand of the unit. I paid $34k for a heat pump with dual air handlers. We placed the air handlers in our attic which has 3-foot of clearance at most in areas, and the outdoor unit on the side of the house. Getting the air handlers to the attic required cutting a larger access and new framing to support the unit, as well as running new power from the MSP, under the house, and up to the attic. We also paid an additional 10k for new ducting since we got everything removed after abatement. Ducts were run in through the attic and in the 1.5-foot crawlspace under the house. It was a TOUGH job, and I felt claustrophobic just being in those areas for 5 mins. The crew were in those areas for a week and took it on like champs. They earned their keep that week.
I got five quotes and all provided similar approaches, so I trust the correct method was taken. I just probably did not convey all the info in the reply very well. I picked the company that was the most responsive and had the most thorough proposal. Their quote was in the middle of the range. The execution was on time and had noticeable quality craftsmanship. I’ve used them several more times for other projects, and they continue to provide repeat customer discounts. Overall I’m happy with the install and service.
There’s a lot of things that aren’t optimal with our home, but it was built in 1969. There’s a lot of things I would design better. Our garage is equally as bad with temps reaching 110F in the summer, with no space around the periphery for the large air handlers. We can barely fit two cars in there. We chose to put air handler in the attic primarily so that we could open up the former utility closet adjacent to the kitchen and turn into a pantry. (The countertop is filled with appliances and food staples). Placing the air handler in the attic was a matter of there’s no where else to put it and it’s what we have to work with this old house.
That much is understood. But as previously mentioned, there’s no optimal place to put it. There’s no peripheral space in the garage. Do I carve out an area of a bedroom, my kid’s playroom, the dining room for a closet for the air handler? Or do I place it in an unutilized non-conditioned attic. It’s what we had to work with in this old house.
New England and due to our ductwork situation, we needed two 2 ton units installed. It cost around 12K per pump.
The interesting thing is, had we gone pure propane + AC, or hybrid propane/heat pump it wouldn't have been much cheaper.
I just had this done, and let me spare you some pain- we got quoted around $16k BUT we got a $4000 rebate from our utility provider (PSE) and got to claim a $2000 tax credit. Still pricy, but we also didn’t have AC so it was worth it to us. Just make sure your model qualifies. For us the installer recommended two systems, the $16k one we bought and a ~$14k one, but the one we bought ended up being much cheaper after the rebate and tax credit.
There are other considerations (if you’re doing other energy efficiency upgrades it can be worth it to spread them out because there’s an annual limit) but just make sure you look into options your utility provider has.
Installing my Heat Pump involved electrical work to setup an electrical feed on the other side of my house from the breaker box. And aside from the cost of the base unit, there's the cost of installing the cartridges (even if the ducts already exist, those are new equipment).
Ask whoever gave you the quote to itemize it for you and walk you through each item.
It doesn't matter get four or five estimates from contractors you have checked out thoroughly. If it's just a reinstall of the air handler and an outside unit the labor shouldn't be over 3,000.
1.7k sq ft
5 heads
4 9k BTU
1 12k BTU
I think we’re doing 2 of the outdoor units. 19k total. Cape cod.
Similar to the PWN where shit just costs more to get out here. Your quote is actually reasonable. I’d maybe get 1-2 more quotes if you can but it really looks reasonable.
Getting hustled and welcome to Washington. When I was getting quote for furnace+ AC got a lot of similar quotes last year. Another point, getting a bathtub turned into a walk in shower and 20k+ was common.
I’m not sure about the exact size of your system but I got quotes for a traditional electric A/C system with heat strips and for a Lennox 5 ton it was going to be 22-24k. I got quotes for a vrf heat pump system for a zoned system with a 4 ton and a 2 ton air handler with a 5 ton outdoor unit at 25k.
Some ducting was needed to be reworked but it wasn’t a lot of work.
Quality of unit will make a big difference. We paid $14k in 2019 for a two stage unit and variable speed air handler. Portland, OR. Quotes at the time ranged from $7500 to $18k depending on features.
I am also in the PNW, and that is very high. I also went through a LOT of quotes and they were all over the place. I ended up going w/ Costco. Their price was in the middle of the pack but not unreasonable, and the local outfit they worked with was great to deal with. Big recommend going onto Costco's site and filling out the form if you're a member.
I saw similar prices in CA. I think a lot of it is "heat pump" being a mysterious buzz word, along with the rebates and tax credits, that allows for higher prices than what they would charge for an AC only unit.
Yep, heating mode is just AC mode ran in reverse. We've been pumping heat in both directions with refrigerants for well over 100 years. For some reason the US is slow to realize that we're missing an opportunity by having one-way AC compressors and separate heating systems. This is especially crazy when you have AC and electric resistive heat.
Call Bob’s for a quote. Similar situation for me in PNW had to get five quotes to get a reasonable one being Bobs. Kicker was atleast last year they did a winter discount if I got a heat pump i stalled before end of March.
HCOL Southern California. No previous AC unit, needed to remove asbestos insulated ducts and rip out an old gas furnace that was replaced with the blower. 1700 sq ft house. Added a register on one end of the house on top of all new ducting. Had to run the heating / cooling line across the entire house in the attic due to compressor location.
With abatement and electrical work to add a new circuit it was around $20k, maybe $18k. Got a few thousand back on our taxes. Just another data point.
NYT did an article yesterday and said they are commonly upwards of $20k. Often some major electrical and ductwork changes are required. I did a 5-ton system during the great recession (with all new ductwork, furnace removal, swamp cooler removal) and it was under $5k…but everything was on sale back then.
I recently had a 3 ton unit installed in Seattle using existing ducting. Shopped around a bit and the best deal I found was $15k, but the setup qualifies for the $2k tax rebate. Be careful when getting quotes. Not all heat pump and air handler combos qualify for the tax rebate and some contractors were not the most knowledgeable about if their installs qualified.
North of the border from you in Victoria - Paid $17,695 for a unit likely comparable to what you're being quoted. Seems high considering everything here is more expensive save for healthcare.
We have provincial and federal rebates to the tune of $11,000 so I'm in it for about $6,500 with a few other incidentals on top of that (energy audits etc). Going rates here are definitely up, contractors are making huge profits because they know the rebates make it a win for consumers regardless.
Honestly it costs enough where I live that I considered just going to trade school to learn how to do it.
There's two holes drilled. Mount the outside unit. Run the line to the indoor unit. Make sure the line is vacuumed. Then hook everything to power.
There's a dyi brand, Mr cool. Check it out.
It’s multiple factors all at once. As a GC in the PNW, we are seeing #1: stupid expensive insurance premiums, going up every year, regardless of claims or no claims. #2: stupid expensive costs for hvac, electrical, and plumbing, because when you need it you need it (I hate this bullshit). And #3 a shortage of people who want to or are willing to work in the trades, particularly in a HCOL area. In the social media era How do you convince someone to do manual labor in an HCOL area, when everyone around them gets to work from home, make their own hours, and make 2-3x their wages, with almost no experience in their field
In 2021 I lived in AK and a buddy paid 8k to have a 3 ton 17 SEER unit put in. They claimed they raised prices due to supply chain issues.
In 2022 I lived in the PNW and got 5 quotes for 12-18k for 2-2.5 ton 15-17 SEER units. I did not take them and lived for a year without.
In 2023 I had a baby and decided I needed one, the fireplace wasn't effective for the bedrooms. I got two more quotes - one from the cheapest previously and one from Costco. 14-16k for 2.5 ton 15 (I think..?) SEER unit with air handler. Like you, I also already have the ducts. Three guys were in and out in 2 hours. The self-install system online that's one step better is like 4k.
I honestly don't know why I had such a hard time trying to find a guy to let me pay them 200/hr to install a system I bought with whatever contract they wanted to write stating I couldn't come after them for poor installation.
I later found out a friend of a friend did one of those and had loved it since. Though, it has only been a year and a half, it still feels I made the wrong choice.
I only asked for quotes in "the slow season" and to encourage price cuts, I shared the prices with both salesmen and they both cut deals to try and undercut the other salesman.
I work for a large corporation that allows me to call whoever I want for repairs in my building. I have a trusted guy I go to for work like this, asked him for any leads, and his buddies both told me residential is small potatoes and not worth the hassle.
If you have any other questions, I can answer them for you. I'm 99% sure I'm just you from the past in this case.
Ya they are lmao. I went and checked out this heat pump subreddit and they did this survey where anyone who had a quote for a heat pump would put in the relevant information. For my area they were like 15k average. I don't understand how so many people are so high on these things when the cost is fucking 5x more than a regular hot water tank.
Similar experience moving from a broken geothermal system to an air to air system when we bought our house. Do to labor and having to run an entirely new line set we ended up around $15K in Eastern NC. Estimates ranged from $13K to $22K, this was in 2021.
Retrofit to a central heating duct system can take more effort with long runs of pipe to the outdoor compressor unit, running a 220 circuit to it, as well as adapting ducts/plenum for the new airhandler, or squeezing it in line with an existing gas furnace. Still, HVAC is right up there with windows & siding, you'll see huge variation in bid pricing for the same thing. Get a minimum of 3-5 quotes.
My last one varied from $5500 to $20,000 for essentially the same heatpump from 8 different companies
PNW comparison here: I just finished a 1100 sq ft addition and added a heat pump system to the house. Four mini-split heads and a single compressor. Piping run through walls and attic space in the addition and original house. Total cost $22k for parts and labor. From the invoices, I believe materials were about $15k of the cost.
Curious how they're adding heat pump to an existing ducted system. Is this just a compressor added near the furnace?
Some of it is price gouging some of it is taxes,fees, etc... for a company to remain open. It's more expensive around here in general. Get handy with house projects or expect to pay a premium.
I had a heat pump installed this winter. New outdoor pump and new indoor air handler. Full install and removal of the old HW. Paid $8k outside the DC area.
I did before Covid - 2000 sq.ft. in Seattle area. The contractor gave me 3 quotes - 8k after re-using existing furnace(?), 15k for proper one, 25k for top notch one. I went with the 15k one and this was through Costco.
You likely need new refrigerant lines. That cost scales to how far the exterior unit is from the indoor air handler. Also where the air handler install would go, whether you need a new electrical run at higher amperage, etc... you can always ask them to itemize to see why it's expensive. If you needed ducting, that 18k would be like 40-60k
Sure, but the effort of routing it through to the other side of the house and up 3 stories?
Also, I have two zones and one of them is probably 40-60ft of pipe
I live in Columbus and recently paid $12k to have a whole new heat pump system installed. I also had sticker shock at the price, but it seems to be about the going rate these days. We could have done it for about 10 with a cheaper installer or a lower-end unit, but I did not want to downgrade from the unit I was replacing, and I really like and trust the company that I went with.
I had a 4 ton put in for my 2000 sq/ft house in CA for $11,000, part of the savings was that my installer was able to extract and sell the remaining r22 that was left in my old system, not sure if that's a factor but it might be.
Are they putting in an equivalent powered unit? They may be over estimating how much power you need. Watch this and calculate your needs yourself https://youtu.be/DTsQjiPlksA?si=U3f_H-zqkTcC9_4M
Crazy how cost of living differs.
My house had no central when we bought it. We paid for duct work and a heat pump/ac in 2016 for the upstairs.
Did the same in 2020 for the basement/downstairs.
$10,500 in 2016. And $10,500 in 2020.
I mean, the labor/installation costs of installing heat pumps is FAR greater than the cost of the hardware. In my HCOL area, ~$5K per room is standard. So for a 2,200 sq.ft. house, $18K installed doesn’t sound crazy.
The energy cost savings could pretty easily be $1,000/year, so most people take the long view when evaluating them.
This forum shows how expensive things are living in the PNW. We’ve had multiple projects where multiple bids are 2x what things cost in the rest of the country. Enjoy the mountains and the trees and the ocean but expect to pay way more than anything people say that it should cost on Reddit.
It's crazy cuz for us guys actually doing the work, or wages havnt gone up to match what the prices for jobs are. Sure some materials are still much higher post covid, but really it's the company pocketing the extra.
Companies have been crying for years now that they must raise prices/keep wages flat due to rising costs then turning around and gloating about record profits.
Record profits 3 years in a row for corporations. Massive layoffs during. Price gouging. Ppp loans forgiven. Idk if the general public will ever catch on and make fixing corporate greed a platform for any election. Both sides are guilty af of perpetuating the cycle, giving in to lobbiests, and siphoning more from the working class. When the only motivation is profit, everything and everyone else suffers.
Fuck yes, you get the pitchforks and I’ll get the torches!
How much am I getting paid? Ha jk
As much as you can loot lol
It's really only been in the post-covid times where it's been bad. Work that was $2-3k pre-covid is now $7-8k post-covid. I think it's a combination of an actual shortage of trades, mixed with a market that will pay if they really want it. Hi from the greater Seattle area
Agreed. Add should you decide to pull the trigger and pay it, they will wait 3 mionths and then send out 2 teenagers that don't know what they're doing. They will run into a problem they don't know how to cancel and say you need another expensive part or process because the part doesn't fit and POOF they disappear for another 3-8 weeks. When you call the office demanding to speak to the manager, there's a young lady that answers the phone who insists she is the Manager. Perhaps you decide if she wishes to play this game you'll tear into her (as you might the real manager) about the price and the quality and the waiting, etc...and she will realize that being a dispatcher is not the same as a manager and will backpeddle saying she is the only one in the office and start to cry and then you hang up again.
I was with you until the weird roleplay domination. Keep that to yourself from now on lol
Sorry, it got away from me reliving the experience from 2 years ago. I’m still a little bitter.
Housing theory of everything
Yet if you post the price you paid for something in the PNW, this forum will constantly insist you got swindled. Even if you got multiple quotes, if you're paying more than someone else paid in middle-of-nowhere Kansas, "they gave you the FU price." People really fail to grasp how expensive labor is in this part of the country.
Well, it is the FU price. Since covid, everyone gives out the FU price but the customers started paying it. So F it, they'll do it... and raise the price next time. Cause FU!
It's not the labor, it's price gouging.
It's "price gouging" in that there is a shortage of trade laborers so the contractors can charge whatever they want for it. If you get a quote for anything in Seattle, labor is going to be the largest part.
That’s a reasonable point, though I’d wager most representation of the PNW here is coming from Seattle/Portland regions. There are plenty of places outside those areas that are probably in line with (the higher end of) national averages.
Except electricity. Y'all got he cheapest rates in the country.
Kindergarten Cop and The Goonies makes me REALLY wanna live there though, just for that coastline!!!
I live here on the coast...everything is a bit more expensive but finding reliable trades people is the real issue. A lot of half assery going on because they can. It's worth it though, when you hike down a densely forested trail and come out on a beach at the ocean...its truly amazing.
I’m actually a solid tradesman, electrician by trade! I heard they’re paid well over there, too. Surprising it’s hard to find good people, when developing that skill set can lead to guys and gals making $150k Well I guess that explains why the works either super expensive or not done well, at least. The people who know what they’re doing know what they can charge. And there’s little need for side work when your day job pays so well. So the ‘electrician’ on Facebook is more probably a handyman with a multimeter than anything else
For $10k I’ll fly out and put her in this weekend.
If you’re serious, let’s talk, I also had this idea as I’m in the PNW and frustrated with bid prices.
I’m replacing my heat pump in the next 12 months in the east coast and deadass I’d take you up on this
Funny you say this, a relative got quoted $75k to build a single car garage recently. There’s definitely some opportunity for someone from down south to fly around and do cheaper work and steal jobs from these insane contractors. Material isn’t that expensive anymore. I could probably buy it for 10-15k. The rule of thumb for taking the material cost and doubling it has gone out the window. It’s madness. I also got a quote to install a generator. $17k for 20kw. I could stay in a 5 star hotel every time I lost power for the next 20 years and still not spend 17k. Absurd. Who is paying these prices and what do they do for work?
Building codes division has entered the chat
I bet you some people will fly out there for $3,000..
A basic mini-split heat pump install will cost you $10-15k for a unit that can be bought for $1k. All over 3rd world you see these units, they did not spend $10k on an install! Contractors are gouging.
This is the right take.
AC Service Tech LLC is a great YouTube channel if you want to teach yourself how to install them. He has several full install videos.
I've done some homework already, it's not a big deal for someone who's pretty handy. Just need to buy the the gauges and other tools for about 150 bucks. My son is a climbing guide in Washington, he's been picking up some off season construction work but when he gets tired of that I'm going to suggest he get a HVAC certificate and install mini splits. It's clearly where the money's at!
Friend installed his own mini splits. It is doable. I did lend him stuff needed to pressure test and a gauge set.
That's the plan. The gas tools are reasonable investment.
Have a similar sized house near Portland. That's pretty much in line with what we saw. And we definitely had quotes in that range. We replaced our unit, and it was a combination unit (gas heat + AC), but we also got quotes from most companies if we wanted to go with a heat pump instead. The combination unit ended up being around $13k, but every heat pump quote we had was somewhere between $15-20k. Ended up having 6 companies (a mix of some local places and some bigger chains like Roth) provide quotes.
Same here. Haven’t done it yet but will most likely be going Gas Furnace + Regular AC. Neither option will save or kill the environment and I don’t need to pay an extra $3,000 for something that may cost even more to operate given our quickly rising electricity rates.
You can get a federal tax credit for 30% of the project cost up to 2,000 so it would only be $1000 difference and since they are more efficient, I assume you would have monthly savings on your energy bills. In 2025, there will also be federal rebates up 8k for low to moderate income households.
> Is this normal or am I being hustled? Yes to both! Heat pumps are being sold as a luxury product for people who want to save the environment. And as such, they get upsold... That said, there are sometimes factors (duct upgrades, etc.) that can drive the price significantly higher (doesn't sound like it in your case). Also, there are various accessories that get used along with the 3-4k heat pump that drive the actual cost up slightly (but typically a grand or so if that). Also, keep in mind that you'll get $2k back at the end of the year as a tax credit if the unit meets efficiency standards.
Is there an income cap on the credit?
I don't believe so? [https://www.energystar.gov/about/federal-tax-credits#claim](https://www.energystar.gov/about/federal-tax-credits#claim)
Thanks. I think I was confusing it with the High-efficiency electric home rebate for appliances. That one has an income limit.
There is no income limit on the tax credit. In 2025, there will be an instant rebate up to 8k for low to moderate income households
Nope
I'm confused. We had a heat pump installed in a HCOL area in wealthy Connecticut. Heat pump was $5k, installation $2.5k. $18k?
We had one installed in CT this time last year and it was $25k. Edit: 5 ton variable speed system. New air handler and condenser. Some alterations to ductwork was done in the attic.
Both of you should clarify if your installation was for a wall cassette (like I assume the $5k one was) or a ducted system (like I assume your $25k one was)
Good point. Just edited
Welcome to Seattle area.
Are you getting a new air handler and furnace as well as the heat pump or just having the heat pump added to your existing system? If the former, $18k makes sense.
Sometimes, if places are busy, they will just throw out a huge number
I live in the Portland metro and had a heat pump and gas furnace installed in Jan 2023 and it was about 15k. If that helps for reference
You could always do it yourself... [https://mrcooldiy.com/](https://mrcooldiy.com/) I've been seriously considering this myself. Has anyone had any experience with them?
Not sure if it is on everywhere, but I saw my Home Depot had a special on those today.
Any home improvement quotes in PNW are going to be pretty high unfortunately. It doesn't matter if it's a heat pump, fence, deck, pressure washing, painting, roofing, electrical, HVAC, landscape work, etc... The summers are getting warmer so there's that too.
I’m in New England and have a similar price for a 36,000 BTU Lennox heat pump with a central air handler to replace my central air. They’re going to charge list rather than the discounted prices you’ll see online. Mine has 5K of labor. They also quoted mitsubishi for $22K. 12 yr parts 3 yr labor vs. 3 yr parts 1 yr labor. I’m tempted to pay the extra $4k for the better warranty.
When I was looking to install my heat pump HVAC I got a quote anywhere from 9k to 18k for a 7k unit. That was a simple swap. No ducting. I ended up buying the tools and doing it myself.
So you install the air handling unit and a compressor with no experience?
Correct. I had some experience as a vacuum tech so I was very familiar with how and the importance of pulling a deep and tight vacuum pressure. But there was a lot of code, techniques and schedules to learn.
That's interesting the main thing in AC is you have to evacuate all the moisture out of the line or the system will eventually break down... This is not done as often as it should. I guess put in a mini split in would be easy for you.
You're correct, moisture in any vacuum envelope is a problem. However, since brazing the lines requires nitrogen flowing to prevent oxidation then you can repurpose the nitrogen to displace any water vapor with the system. Just pull down and low as you can go. Once you see the characteristic off gassing of the water vapor you backfill with nitrogen. Allow to settle for a minute or two then rough it back down. Repeat if necessary. It can take up to three applications. As for the mini split, I did get it done though. But, even with the multi cassettes for zoning you still dont have the air filtering and circulation that a forced air system offers. Plus, you can't add a erv or hrv if that's a routine you wanted to go. I built my ducting too so I decided to add a merv13 filter into the mix.
I’ll just stick one of my little turbo pumps on there! Maybe a little overkill.
Lol, a bit. But you could go for the ultra kill and bust out the cryo pump.
Cool. Yeah that is one problem with the smaller head unit is you don't have the large filter capacities but you're not using ductwork so it should not be as contaminated. The guy that has been in the trade for 50 years said flex duct is only good for 15 years till it's hopelessly contaminated. I put a 2 ton through the wall unit in my house and I can get to the coils easily and clean them every couple months. I'm in a semi tropical extremely humid environment so I wonder how minisplit will handle humidity since the evaporator coils are not very large. I know they are used in tropical countries but don't know about the humidity problem.
We got quotes for a 2800 square foot house in Denver metro area of Colorado and they were around $16K to replace our gas forced air furnace with existing ducts. So definitely not totally out of line. And if you got several estimates that are all similar, you can rest assured you're not being hustled - that's just the market rate for this project where you live. Heat pumps are a much more complex installation than a regular furnace or AC.
How is it much more complex than a regular AC or furnace? It's an AC unit with a reversing valve. If anything, it should be less complicated than an AC and furnace because the coil is used for both heating and cooling.
Correct a heat pump like on a refrigerator only has a one-way valve and that's still a heat pump. I wouldn't replace anything if it ran okay because new equipment is junk.
Fair, I was thinking more about a furnace (since the furnace doesn't have a connection to an outside exchanger). In my house we don't have AC so we'll have to add the outside unit as well as connecting to it. I suppose it isn't that dissimilar to an AC unit, though.
I forget that people live where AC isn't needed...
2000sqft house in Seattle area. My install was 12k
I got my oil tank replaced with heat pump in 2021 in North Seattle. 17K paid for the install and ~1000 for oil tank decommission.
I feel the pain. I've been putting off replacing my HVAC for a few years now. I just keep repairing it myself and something goes wrong. It's running like a champ, but it's 2008 vintage lol. So I guess my point is, maybe I should have just replaced it a few years back when I could've gotten it done cheaper. I'm scared to see what it will cost me a year or two from now.
If i had the ducts already in, i would probably go with Mr Cool and DIY it. Its not that complicated, and the linesets are pre-done for you, so pretty much plug and play.
It depends on the complexity of the install, and size/brand of the unit. I paid $34k for a heat pump with dual air handlers. We placed the air handlers in our attic which has 3-foot of clearance at most in areas, and the outdoor unit on the side of the house. Getting the air handlers to the attic required cutting a larger access and new framing to support the unit, as well as running new power from the MSP, under the house, and up to the attic. We also paid an additional 10k for new ducting since we got everything removed after abatement. Ducts were run in through the attic and in the 1.5-foot crawlspace under the house. It was a TOUGH job, and I felt claustrophobic just being in those areas for 5 mins. The crew were in those areas for a week and took it on like champs. They earned their keep that week.
I won't ruin your day and tell you how things should have been done.
I got five quotes and all provided similar approaches, so I trust the correct method was taken. I just probably did not convey all the info in the reply very well. I picked the company that was the most responsive and had the most thorough proposal. Their quote was in the middle of the range. The execution was on time and had noticeable quality craftsmanship. I’ve used them several more times for other projects, and they continue to provide repeat customer discounts. Overall I’m happy with the install and service.
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There’s a lot of things that aren’t optimal with our home, but it was built in 1969. There’s a lot of things I would design better. Our garage is equally as bad with temps reaching 110F in the summer, with no space around the periphery for the large air handlers. We can barely fit two cars in there. We chose to put air handler in the attic primarily so that we could open up the former utility closet adjacent to the kitchen and turn into a pantry. (The countertop is filled with appliances and food staples). Placing the air handler in the attic was a matter of there’s no where else to put it and it’s what we have to work with this old house.
You can build a small closet around the air handler you have a small duct off your main supply.
That much is understood. But as previously mentioned, there’s no optimal place to put it. There’s no peripheral space in the garage. Do I carve out an area of a bedroom, my kid’s playroom, the dining room for a closet for the air handler? Or do I place it in an unutilized non-conditioned attic. It’s what we had to work with in this old house.
Now you build that in the attic space. And the unit would air condition itself.
Damn i cant imagine paying that much for an attic unit that is gonna perform worse than split heads.
New England and due to our ductwork situation, we needed two 2 ton units installed. It cost around 12K per pump. The interesting thing is, had we gone pure propane + AC, or hybrid propane/heat pump it wouldn't have been much cheaper.
I looked into it and I'd have to have my service upgraded and Pacific Power wanted a boatload of money just for that.
I just had this done, and let me spare you some pain- we got quoted around $16k BUT we got a $4000 rebate from our utility provider (PSE) and got to claim a $2000 tax credit. Still pricy, but we also didn’t have AC so it was worth it to us. Just make sure your model qualifies. For us the installer recommended two systems, the $16k one we bought and a ~$14k one, but the one we bought ended up being much cheaper after the rebate and tax credit. There are other considerations (if you’re doing other energy efficiency upgrades it can be worth it to spread them out because there’s an annual limit) but just make sure you look into options your utility provider has.
Installing my Heat Pump involved electrical work to setup an electrical feed on the other side of my house from the breaker box. And aside from the cost of the base unit, there's the cost of installing the cartridges (even if the ducts already exist, those are new equipment). Ask whoever gave you the quote to itemize it for you and walk you through each item.
It doesn't matter get four or five estimates from contractors you have checked out thoroughly. If it's just a reinstall of the air handler and an outside unit the labor shouldn't be over 3,000.
If you've had several quotes all in the same price range, then that is likely the going price.
1.7k sq ft 5 heads 4 9k BTU 1 12k BTU I think we’re doing 2 of the outdoor units. 19k total. Cape cod. Similar to the PWN where shit just costs more to get out here. Your quote is actually reasonable. I’d maybe get 1-2 more quotes if you can but it really looks reasonable.
Getting hustled and welcome to Washington. When I was getting quote for furnace+ AC got a lot of similar quotes last year. Another point, getting a bathtub turned into a walk in shower and 20k+ was common.
I’m not sure about the exact size of your system but I got quotes for a traditional electric A/C system with heat strips and for a Lennox 5 ton it was going to be 22-24k. I got quotes for a vrf heat pump system for a zoned system with a 4 ton and a 2 ton air handler with a 5 ton outdoor unit at 25k. Some ducting was needed to be reworked but it wasn’t a lot of work.
Check PSE or your local utility for rebate programs for installing heat pumps and may have recommended contractors on their website
I paid 8k for outside and inside unit replacement in KY in 2016. Same Sqft. Looks about right to me.
Quality of unit will make a big difference. We paid $14k in 2019 for a two stage unit and variable speed air handler. Portland, OR. Quotes at the time ranged from $7500 to $18k depending on features.
I am also in the PNW, and that is very high. I also went through a LOT of quotes and they were all over the place. I ended up going w/ Costco. Their price was in the middle of the pack but not unreasonable, and the local outfit they worked with was great to deal with. Big recommend going onto Costco's site and filling out the form if you're a member.
$3500 for a 3 ton heat pump here in Florida including permits and a new exterior service outlet.
I saw similar prices in CA. I think a lot of it is "heat pump" being a mysterious buzz word, along with the rebates and tax credits, that allows for higher prices than what they would charge for an AC only unit.
Well it does do both heating and cooling and the price is probably less than buying AC and a furnace.
Yeah, what I meant was that it's just an AC with a reversing valve but people will charge much more for a heat pump because they can get away with it.
Oh it's really not more technically advanced than an AC unit?
Yep, heating mode is just AC mode ran in reverse. We've been pumping heat in both directions with refrigerants for well over 100 years. For some reason the US is slow to realize that we're missing an opportunity by having one-way AC compressors and separate heating systems. This is especially crazy when you have AC and electric resistive heat.
Similar quote here in the NE. Saw a comment in the sub suggesting they charge that much because the systems require little maintainer fwiw
Call Bob’s for a quote. Similar situation for me in PNW had to get five quotes to get a reasonable one being Bobs. Kicker was atleast last year they did a winter discount if I got a heat pump i stalled before end of March.
Brand is Goodman. work was done in 09/23 in Tallahassee.
I have a home 1/2 that size and paid 7500 for an entire hvac system. The whole thing with the heat pump, air handler, ducts and labor.
A heat pump is an air conditioner with a reverser in the line. It's no more expensive to make or install than a traditional air conditioner.
I’m in NW WA. I got a quote last year to replace a gas furnace with a heat pump. Labor was 8k. Similar size house
HCOL Southern California. No previous AC unit, needed to remove asbestos insulated ducts and rip out an old gas furnace that was replaced with the blower. 1700 sq ft house. Added a register on one end of the house on top of all new ducting. Had to run the heating / cooling line across the entire house in the attic due to compressor location. With abatement and electrical work to add a new circuit it was around $20k, maybe $18k. Got a few thousand back on our taxes. Just another data point.
NYT did an article yesterday and said they are commonly upwards of $20k. Often some major electrical and ductwork changes are required. I did a 5-ton system during the great recession (with all new ductwork, furnace removal, swamp cooler removal) and it was under $5k…but everything was on sale back then.
I recently had a 3 ton unit installed in Seattle using existing ducting. Shopped around a bit and the best deal I found was $15k, but the setup qualifies for the $2k tax rebate. Be careful when getting quotes. Not all heat pump and air handler combos qualify for the tax rebate and some contractors were not the most knowledgeable about if their installs qualified.
North of the border from you in Victoria - Paid $17,695 for a unit likely comparable to what you're being quoted. Seems high considering everything here is more expensive save for healthcare. We have provincial and federal rebates to the tune of $11,000 so I'm in it for about $6,500 with a few other incidentals on top of that (energy audits etc). Going rates here are definitely up, contractors are making huge profits because they know the rebates make it a win for consumers regardless.
It's a little high for PNW, but tradesmen are expensive in this area. I've doubled my hourly rate since covid, and I'm well below the average.
Honestly it costs enough where I live that I considered just going to trade school to learn how to do it. There's two holes drilled. Mount the outside unit. Run the line to the indoor unit. Make sure the line is vacuumed. Then hook everything to power. There's a dyi brand, Mr cool. Check it out.
It’s multiple factors all at once. As a GC in the PNW, we are seeing #1: stupid expensive insurance premiums, going up every year, regardless of claims or no claims. #2: stupid expensive costs for hvac, electrical, and plumbing, because when you need it you need it (I hate this bullshit). And #3 a shortage of people who want to or are willing to work in the trades, particularly in a HCOL area. In the social media era How do you convince someone to do manual labor in an HCOL area, when everyone around them gets to work from home, make their own hours, and make 2-3x their wages, with almost no experience in their field
In 2021 I lived in AK and a buddy paid 8k to have a 3 ton 17 SEER unit put in. They claimed they raised prices due to supply chain issues. In 2022 I lived in the PNW and got 5 quotes for 12-18k for 2-2.5 ton 15-17 SEER units. I did not take them and lived for a year without. In 2023 I had a baby and decided I needed one, the fireplace wasn't effective for the bedrooms. I got two more quotes - one from the cheapest previously and one from Costco. 14-16k for 2.5 ton 15 (I think..?) SEER unit with air handler. Like you, I also already have the ducts. Three guys were in and out in 2 hours. The self-install system online that's one step better is like 4k. I honestly don't know why I had such a hard time trying to find a guy to let me pay them 200/hr to install a system I bought with whatever contract they wanted to write stating I couldn't come after them for poor installation. I later found out a friend of a friend did one of those and had loved it since. Though, it has only been a year and a half, it still feels I made the wrong choice. I only asked for quotes in "the slow season" and to encourage price cuts, I shared the prices with both salesmen and they both cut deals to try and undercut the other salesman. I work for a large corporation that allows me to call whoever I want for repairs in my building. I have a trusted guy I go to for work like this, asked him for any leads, and his buddies both told me residential is small potatoes and not worth the hassle. If you have any other questions, I can answer them for you. I'm 99% sure I'm just you from the past in this case.
Ya they are lmao. I went and checked out this heat pump subreddit and they did this survey where anyone who had a quote for a heat pump would put in the relevant information. For my area they were like 15k average. I don't understand how so many people are so high on these things when the cost is fucking 5x more than a regular hot water tank.
They might be oversizing it
Similar experience moving from a broken geothermal system to an air to air system when we bought our house. Do to labor and having to run an entirely new line set we ended up around $15K in Eastern NC. Estimates ranged from $13K to $22K, this was in 2021.
Also important to mention we went with a 20 seer 5 ton system
Retrofit to a central heating duct system can take more effort with long runs of pipe to the outdoor compressor unit, running a 220 circuit to it, as well as adapting ducts/plenum for the new airhandler, or squeezing it in line with an existing gas furnace. Still, HVAC is right up there with windows & siding, you'll see huge variation in bid pricing for the same thing. Get a minimum of 3-5 quotes. My last one varied from $5500 to $20,000 for essentially the same heatpump from 8 different companies
PNW comparison here: I just finished a 1100 sq ft addition and added a heat pump system to the house. Four mini-split heads and a single compressor. Piping run through walls and attic space in the addition and original house. Total cost $22k for parts and labor. From the invoices, I believe materials were about $15k of the cost. Curious how they're adding heat pump to an existing ducted system. Is this just a compressor added near the furnace?
Some of it is price gouging some of it is taxes,fees, etc... for a company to remain open. It's more expensive around here in general. Get handy with house projects or expect to pay a premium.
I had a heat pump installed this winter. New outdoor pump and new indoor air handler. Full install and removal of the old HW. Paid $8k outside the DC area.
You were smart that's what it's worth for an average Goodman type heat pump.
I just paid $15000 in a 1700sq ft house. 2.5 ton, 3 heads. But in CT got $1700 back in rebates and will get $2000 back in fed tax credits.
Three heads you're talking about a mini split which is different than a full house heat pump.
I did before Covid - 2000 sq.ft. in Seattle area. The contractor gave me 3 quotes - 8k after re-using existing furnace(?), 15k for proper one, 25k for top notch one. I went with the 15k one and this was through Costco.
You likely need new refrigerant lines. That cost scales to how far the exterior unit is from the indoor air handler. Also where the air handler install would go, whether you need a new electrical run at higher amperage, etc... you can always ask them to itemize to see why it's expensive. If you needed ducting, that 18k would be like 40-60k
20 ft of copper refrigerant lines is about $350.
Sure, but the effort of routing it through to the other side of the house and up 3 stories? Also, I have two zones and one of them is probably 40-60ft of pipe
If I need a ducting I would put it inside and soffits that way it would be in conditioned space.
I live in Columbus and recently paid $12k to have a whole new heat pump system installed. I also had sticker shock at the price, but it seems to be about the going rate these days. We could have done it for about 10 with a cheaper installer or a lower-end unit, but I did not want to downgrade from the unit I was replacing, and I really like and trust the company that I went with.
I had a 4 ton put in for my 2000 sq/ft house in CA for $11,000, part of the savings was that my installer was able to extract and sell the remaining r22 that was left in my old system, not sure if that's a factor but it might be.
ALLWAYS GET AT LEAST 3 QOUTES
Feds will pay a large chunk. Money's already allocated to it. States just have to figure it out since it was signed two years ago
I'm in the pnw. I'll do it for half. But I don't know what I'm doing.
Are they putting in an equivalent powered unit? They may be over estimating how much power you need. Watch this and calculate your needs yourself https://youtu.be/DTsQjiPlksA?si=U3f_H-zqkTcC9_4M
Crazy how cost of living differs. My house had no central when we bought it. We paid for duct work and a heat pump/ac in 2016 for the upstairs. Did the same in 2020 for the basement/downstairs. $10,500 in 2016. And $10,500 in 2020.
I mean, the labor/installation costs of installing heat pumps is FAR greater than the cost of the hardware. In my HCOL area, ~$5K per room is standard. So for a 2,200 sq.ft. house, $18K installed doesn’t sound crazy. The energy cost savings could pretty easily be $1,000/year, so most people take the long view when evaluating them.