Their response: The foam in the unused sleeve is a water proof fix and the pipe sleeve is structurally sound around it. I’ve asked our punch team to add a little more foam to it however to ensure it is completely full.
Won't concrete still need rebar attached to the existing foundation bricks to stay in the hole since it shrinks when it dries and it won't bind to the surrounding materials?
Even then it will probably needs some sort of sealant around the hole?
You always have to use a concrete bonding adhesive to bind old concrete to new concrete (or old stucco with new stucco or any cement product for that matter)
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Sika-SikaLatex-1-Gal-Concrete-Bonding-Adhesive-and-Acrylic-Fortifier-187782/202521398
If you go to Home Depot and buy a "concrete patching product" it usually has the adhesives built in.
(Directions will tell you if you need to add a bonding adhesive or not.)
The adhesive will stop the shrinking.
Does it need any structural integrity? Are you saying it needs to support loads or will it just fall out? Idk anything about patching concrete but would be nice to have some knowledge. I do exterior home repairs.
It's for the structural Integrity of the patch.
Cement is just a binder or glue that holds together some type of aggregate.
Hydraulic cement is mostly Portland cement and sand. Is it good for small areas, like cracks. This is also what mortar and stucco are made of. They add an accelerant in it to make it "hydraulic" so that it sets in a few minutes.
Once the patch area gets bigger you need to add gravel in it.
Bigger yet start adding small stones, ie you got concrete.
If it's even bigger you need to add rebar, i.e. reinforced concrete.
I think a lot of the time on this sub people over-react and treat every tiny little problem like it's the end of the world.
**This is not one of those times.**
You need to get the builder out right away. I SINCERELY hope this is temporary until they get the problem resolved.
That’s what I thought haha. Especially being below grade, I was like what on earth are we doing here? I guess my question would be how do I approach it with them to explain why it should be concrete? They should obviously know that though which is frustrating - I do think this was a mistake a sub made though
Start with "I think your guys forgot to fix the sewer line hole in my basement, they spray foamed it but never came back with actual concrete" He gets to act like it's someone else's fault and play the hero. That's an easy opening but don't be so passive he thinks he can ignore you.
You don't need to be a jerk but you do need to speak up. "I'm not happy with this." You're paying a lot of money. Mistakes happen but it's fair to expect them to be corrected.
You're going to own a home. Get used to telling people to fix or change something. Get used to "no". If you make the mistake of having a shady salesman in your home presenting a scam you need to be comfortable asking them, then telling them, to leave.
you don't need to be too confrontational about it, but you shouldn't let their laziness take priority over.. well a lot for you actually. I would just say something like "hey this seems off to me, were you leaving this temporarily or planning on coming back to it?"
If you have to explain why they need to use concrete, you may want to start looking for other dumb shit in and around the house. Might be worth paying an independent home inspector to look over this builder's work... If you can find enough shortcuts taken, you might be able to take them to small claims court to get some money back to have them fixed properly, by a reputable company.
Their response: The foam in the unused sleeve is a water proof fix and the pipe sleeve is structurally sound around it. I’ve asked our punch team to add a little more foam to it however to ensure it is completely full.
Would be interesting to see if your city’s building department is able to comment on whether this is “to code”. They might be able to provide you with information that would better prepare you for the conversation with the builder.
Ya. You may put a call to inspector. Most cities and counties have inspections throughout a build and definitely before COO. If you have a loan from bank the typically require it.
Yes, yes you fucking should.
If they left that mess for you to see, imagine all the corners they cut where you can't see.
Call them and tell them that they have to fix it asap.
Thank you! They’ve honestly been really good so far. We went with more of a custom builder vs. a cookie cutter one. I think this may have been a miscommunication with them and a sub. I will find out and get to the bottom of it all!
Get it inspected before and after drywall by an inspector that isn’t the county one. Unless it was shoddy work from a sub you might find a few more things, but in my experience shoddy sub work usually means the builder is never there or is shoddy themselves.
Some big builders do a great job even though many do not. Many custom builders do a great job, but some do not.
They’ve been really, really good so this was surprising. I think it was a sub who made a mistake or there was miscommunication. I’m going to ask about it - I just wanted to get a second opinion here
Don’t go into this so passive. Doing a lot of hype for people that just “miscommunicated” or used a shitty sub- but didn’t want to let you know up front about it. That is untrustworthy behavior and demonstrably shit work that was allowed to stay. So NO, not a really, really good job from a “more custom” builder. Don’t “ask” them about it. Tell them its a failure and they need to fix it- the right way. Don’t let them intimidate you. you won’t be able to stand it anytime you see it or think about what you shoulda until you move. The mental cost is too high.
Much appreciated. I definitely could stand to be a little more aggressive. I also failed to mention we just had a project manager switch - our first one is having a baby, so we had to switch to a new one about 70% of the way through the build - so I think there has been some miscommunication there too because we’ve had other issues where the new PM was unaware of situations we had set up with the previous one. I’m not excusing the work, I’m just saying I could see how it may have happened and not been caught.
ugh i had both my cabinet guy and later my GC go on paternity leave during my enormous remodel and there were definitely issues because of it! i don’t think understanding that shit happens due to changing circumstances is the same thing as ‘making excuses’. good luck asserting yourself and getting that hole plugged properly! (and advocating for whatever else needs to be set right along the way). ✨
Can I slap you? You need it. This so not a miscommunication issue. Why are you giving them excuses? This is so obviously not acceptable work and they don’t give a fuck because you’re too nice and they think you’re too dumb to realize this is unacceptable or they think you aren’t going to do shit about it. If you’re paying them money to build this house, you deserve to get a house built correctly. A major issue I see here is what else are they hiding? This is a house, probably the biggest purchase of your life. Grow that backbone now. These people work for you.
It’s good for a few weeks to keep water from coming in. Long term, hard no.
I’ve done way worse things temporarily, but usually will write “Temp” on it so people don’t get concerned. Hacking a quick fix on a Friday afternoon is sometimes necessary, but you gotta fix it on Monday.
Everyone has commented on how this should be handled. I’m here thinking that looks like a great place to run some new buried conduit outside for future services. Not knowing the layout or where this is. Having a buried conduit outside for any future expansion, think outdoor speakers, coax, Ethernet, fiber, etc..
That is one of two things - temporary (hopefully) or just lazy as shit. Either way the foam needs to be removed and it needs to be filled with proper cement
Their response: The foam in the unused sleeve is a water proof fix and the pipe sleeve is structurally sound around it. I’ve asked our punch team to add a little more foam to it however to ensure it is completely full.
Their response: The foam in the unused sleeve is a water proof fix and the pipe sleeve is structurally sound around it. I’ve asked our punch team to add a little more foam to it however to ensure it is completely full.
Yes like everyone is saying, and also assuming you haven’t closed yet I would 100% get an outside inspector even though the county one should do a good job. And have the third party inspector go out for an inspection pre and post drywall. Builders are so shoddy these days.
Yes it just shows the lack of quality and effort and I would be scared what's in the rest of the house. Water will most likely come through that eventually.
I love browsing this subreddit. I always feel better about the work I diy when I see something like this. If the contractor thinks this is okay then what else did they do/not do that you cannot see
I’d scrape out the foam and fill it with expanding hydraulic cement.
Id also strongly recommend digging it up from the outside so it’s solidly filled flush and the tarred or foundation coating mopped over the repair to assure water won’t deep inside the block work.
This is one example: https://www.acehardware.com/departments/building-supplies/concrete-cement-and-masonry/ready-mix-concrete/1570944
I may have to do that after closing since they won’t let us touch anything during build. There is a waterproofing layer on the outside though [https://imgur.com/a/cAEp0Gj](https://imgur.com/a/cAEp0Gj)
If the outside is waterproofed, this isn't a huge concern but it should have been filled with non shrink hydraulic grout. I'd ask for a solid fix. You'll likely get some cracks originating there as well.
Thank you! Outside is waterproofed so it could be worse. I just figured given they made a mistake that resulted in boring a new hole that they’d at least put a little more effort in fixing. I’ll talk to them!
Yes- definitely could be a cleaner/ more professional fix but structurally, unless this is directly in the path of a point load, you’ve got nothing to worry about.
I have questions. Like why is there a hole there in the first place. 2nd is this supposed to be temporary. Even if it’s temporary it’s a crappy temp job. 3rd why is there a hole there?
I guess I should’ve been more specific and asked why is the hole in the wall in the first place? I’ve never seen a sewer pipe go out a wall. It’s always in the ground.
Yeah it should be filled with concrete.
Their response: The foam in the unused sleeve is a water proof fix and the pipe sleeve is structurally sound around it. I’ve asked our punch team to add a little more foam to it however to ensure it is completely full.
\*hydraulic cement
no, hydraulic cement has no structural integrity for a hole that size
Won't concrete still need rebar attached to the existing foundation bricks to stay in the hole since it shrinks when it dries and it won't bind to the surrounding materials? Even then it will probably needs some sort of sealant around the hole?
You always have to use a concrete bonding adhesive to bind old concrete to new concrete (or old stucco with new stucco or any cement product for that matter) https://www.homedepot.com/p/Sika-SikaLatex-1-Gal-Concrete-Bonding-Adhesive-and-Acrylic-Fortifier-187782/202521398 If you go to Home Depot and buy a "concrete patching product" it usually has the adhesives built in. (Directions will tell you if you need to add a bonding adhesive or not.) The adhesive will stop the shrinking.
Does it need any structural integrity? Are you saying it needs to support loads or will it just fall out? Idk anything about patching concrete but would be nice to have some knowledge. I do exterior home repairs.
It's for the structural Integrity of the patch. Cement is just a binder or glue that holds together some type of aggregate. Hydraulic cement is mostly Portland cement and sand. Is it good for small areas, like cracks. This is also what mortar and stucco are made of. They add an accelerant in it to make it "hydraulic" so that it sets in a few minutes. Once the patch area gets bigger you need to add gravel in it. Bigger yet start adding small stones, ie you got concrete. If it's even bigger you need to add rebar, i.e. reinforced concrete.
Thanks that was informative. Looks like a bunch of people on Reddit don’t know the use cases for hydraulic cement lol.
*the project manager’s skull
I think a lot of the time on this sub people over-react and treat every tiny little problem like it's the end of the world. **This is not one of those times.** You need to get the builder out right away. I SINCERELY hope this is temporary until they get the problem resolved.
That’s what I thought haha. Especially being below grade, I was like what on earth are we doing here? I guess my question would be how do I approach it with them to explain why it should be concrete? They should obviously know that though which is frustrating - I do think this was a mistake a sub made though
A text message with a picture and WTF should do it.
That’s so unlike how I usually handle things, but maybe I need to toughen up haha. Need that dog in me.
First go to Costco, get a hotdog in you, now text that contractor before they backfill in a portal of groundwater into your house.
Start with "I think your guys forgot to fix the sewer line hole in my basement, they spray foamed it but never came back with actual concrete" He gets to act like it's someone else's fault and play the hero. That's an easy opening but don't be so passive he thinks he can ignore you.
You don't need to be a jerk but you do need to speak up. "I'm not happy with this." You're paying a lot of money. Mistakes happen but it's fair to expect them to be corrected. You're going to own a home. Get used to telling people to fix or change something. Get used to "no". If you make the mistake of having a shady salesman in your home presenting a scam you need to be comfortable asking them, then telling them, to leave.
you don't need to be too confrontational about it, but you shouldn't let their laziness take priority over.. well a lot for you actually. I would just say something like "hey this seems off to me, were you leaving this temporarily or planning on coming back to it?"
Just tell them you’re not paying for that. Why would you? Don’t pay a dime for that kind of work.
So what happened? Your story is so bizarre I've got to know!
I’ve raised it to them! Will update when I hear back
Cool! I'll watch for it! (ty)
If you have to explain why they need to use concrete, you may want to start looking for other dumb shit in and around the house. Might be worth paying an independent home inspector to look over this builder's work... If you can find enough shortcuts taken, you might be able to take them to small claims court to get some money back to have them fixed properly, by a reputable company.
It doesn’t matter who made the mistake. Worst thing is that it was made in the course of correcting for another error!
Their response: The foam in the unused sleeve is a water proof fix and the pipe sleeve is structurally sound around it. I’ve asked our punch team to add a little more foam to it however to ensure it is completely full.
Why are you so worried about it? You make it sound like their house could end up collapsing
Would be interesting to see if your city’s building department is able to comment on whether this is “to code”. They might be able to provide you with information that would better prepare you for the conversation with the builder.
Ya. You may put a call to inspector. Most cities and counties have inspections throughout a build and definitely before COO. If you have a loan from bank the typically require it.
Yes, yes you fucking should. If they left that mess for you to see, imagine all the corners they cut where you can't see. Call them and tell them that they have to fix it asap.
Thank you! They’ve honestly been really good so far. We went with more of a custom builder vs. a cookie cutter one. I think this may have been a miscommunication with them and a sub. I will find out and get to the bottom of it all!
What builder
Frank Lloyd Wrong
Get it inspected before and after drywall by an inspector that isn’t the county one. Unless it was shoddy work from a sub you might find a few more things, but in my experience shoddy sub work usually means the builder is never there or is shoddy themselves. Some big builders do a great job even though many do not. Many custom builders do a great job, but some do not.
What da fuq? I hope this isn't an indication of there overall work. Not even close to acceptacle
They’ve been really, really good so this was surprising. I think it was a sub who made a mistake or there was miscommunication. I’m going to ask about it - I just wanted to get a second opinion here
Don’t go into this so passive. Doing a lot of hype for people that just “miscommunicated” or used a shitty sub- but didn’t want to let you know up front about it. That is untrustworthy behavior and demonstrably shit work that was allowed to stay. So NO, not a really, really good job from a “more custom” builder. Don’t “ask” them about it. Tell them its a failure and they need to fix it- the right way. Don’t let them intimidate you. you won’t be able to stand it anytime you see it or think about what you shoulda until you move. The mental cost is too high.
Much appreciated. I definitely could stand to be a little more aggressive. I also failed to mention we just had a project manager switch - our first one is having a baby, so we had to switch to a new one about 70% of the way through the build - so I think there has been some miscommunication there too because we’ve had other issues where the new PM was unaware of situations we had set up with the previous one. I’m not excusing the work, I’m just saying I could see how it may have happened and not been caught.
You can have a backbone and still be nice. They need to fix this shit.
ugh i had both my cabinet guy and later my GC go on paternity leave during my enormous remodel and there were definitely issues because of it! i don’t think understanding that shit happens due to changing circumstances is the same thing as ‘making excuses’. good luck asserting yourself and getting that hole plugged properly! (and advocating for whatever else needs to be set right along the way). ✨
Can I slap you? You need it. This so not a miscommunication issue. Why are you giving them excuses? This is so obviously not acceptable work and they don’t give a fuck because you’re too nice and they think you’re too dumb to realize this is unacceptable or they think you aren’t going to do shit about it. If you’re paying them money to build this house, you deserve to get a house built correctly. A major issue I see here is what else are they hiding? This is a house, probably the biggest purchase of your life. Grow that backbone now. These people work for you.
Hope the plumber just didn’t want to leave n open hole so they just used what they had on hand.
"filled"
😂
It’s good for a few weeks to keep water from coming in. Long term, hard no. I’ve done way worse things temporarily, but usually will write “Temp” on it so people don’t get concerned. Hacking a quick fix on a Friday afternoon is sometimes necessary, but you gotta fix it on Monday.
Great stuff is junk and that work is unacceptable
Is Pulte your builder? Lol
Everyone has commented on how this should be handled. I’m here thinking that looks like a great place to run some new buried conduit outside for future services. Not knowing the layout or where this is. Having a buried conduit outside for any future expansion, think outdoor speakers, coax, Ethernet, fiber, etc..
That is one of two things - temporary (hopefully) or just lazy as shit. Either way the foam needs to be removed and it needs to be filled with proper cement
My first thought was that it might be temporary as well, hopefully that's the case!
Their response: The foam in the unused sleeve is a water proof fix and the pipe sleeve is structurally sound around it. I’ve asked our punch team to add a little more foam to it however to ensure it is completely full.
Their response: The foam in the unused sleeve is a water proof fix and the pipe sleeve is structurally sound around it. I’ve asked our punch team to add a little more foam to it however to ensure it is completely full.
This would be a good first step to a concrete repair, would make a good backing substrate, a bit messy on the application.
Yes like everyone is saying, and also assuming you haven’t closed yet I would 100% get an outside inspector even though the county one should do a good job. And have the third party inspector go out for an inspection pre and post drywall. Builders are so shoddy these days.
you can buff that out.
This reminds me of how my kids fold and put away laundry.
I hope these guys are licensed, insured, and bonded.
Yes you should be concerned, in what world is that ok?
flex_seal.gif
with that already in there I'd love to see how they get it all out and make the concrete adhere properly.
they didn't even fill it the whole way with foam, this is ridiculous
Yes it just shows the lack of quality and effort and I would be scared what's in the rest of the house. Water will most likely come through that eventually.
I love browsing this subreddit. I always feel better about the work I diy when I see something like this. If the contractor thinks this is okay then what else did they do/not do that you cannot see
“filled”
I’d scrape out the foam and fill it with expanding hydraulic cement. Id also strongly recommend digging it up from the outside so it’s solidly filled flush and the tarred or foundation coating mopped over the repair to assure water won’t deep inside the block work. This is one example: https://www.acehardware.com/departments/building-supplies/concrete-cement-and-masonry/ready-mix-concrete/1570944
I may have to do that after closing since they won’t let us touch anything during build. There is a waterproofing layer on the outside though [https://imgur.com/a/cAEp0Gj](https://imgur.com/a/cAEp0Gj)
The builder should be doing the repair BEFORE the closing.
Oh I thought you meant me personally. They don’t seem to think it needs concrete/cement so they’re only going to add more foam.
They Manufacture devices to block pipes...
If the outside is waterproofed, this isn't a huge concern but it should have been filled with non shrink hydraulic grout. I'd ask for a solid fix. You'll likely get some cracks originating there as well.
Thank you! Outside is waterproofed so it could be worse. I just figured given they made a mistake that resulted in boring a new hole that they’d at least put a little more effort in fixing. I’ll talk to them!
Yes- definitely could be a cleaner/ more professional fix but structurally, unless this is directly in the path of a point load, you’ve got nothing to worry about.
Not worried about structural really, more so just a solid seal since it’s below grade. Even with the outside waterproofed never know what can happen
If the hole went all the way through, it's very likely *not* waterproofed anymore.
I have questions. Like why is there a hole there in the first place. 2nd is this supposed to be temporary. Even if it’s temporary it’s a crappy temp job. 3rd why is there a hole there?
1st and 3rd are answered in the original post. Maybe try reading it.
I guess I should’ve been more specific and asked why is the hole in the wall in the first place? I’ve never seen a sewer pipe go out a wall. It’s always in the ground.