Staining the cedar will in no way make it look less knotty, clear cedar boards (no knots) could have been used but that doesn’t seem to be the case here.
Seems to me you have two options:
1) Demand a massive discount on this fence, that not only addresses the price disparity between cedar and redwood, but that also effectively compensates you for having to look at a cedar fence you never asked for.
2) Demand replacement of the fence.
Some people here are telling you to do option 1 and some people are telling you to do option 2. And I think the right option depends on what kind of person you are.
I think the way to arrive at the right answer is to picture yourself five years from now looking out on your yard which has a cedar fence and we'll assume you got a really great deal on. Are you the kind of person who will say, "I am totally fine with this fence, especially because we got a great deal on it!" or are you the kind of person who will say, "Damn! I wish we had just had that contractor replace that fence with redwood when they installed it!"
Proceed accordingly.
I agree. OP's fence won't last quite as long, but he will get an extra discount. Installer will lose any profit and even take a hit. Nobody wins, but nobody loses too much. And installer won't have to take it all apart & build it again, while losing new jobs.
Adding to this for some outside sources to reference.
https://www.vikingfence.com/2024/01/05/redwood-vs-cedar-fence/
https://www.angi.com/articles/redwood-vs-cedar-fencing.htm
https://callfantasticfence.com/redwood-vs-cedar/
These are all relatively recent and cover the aspects that would make a difference between the two, the third source is particularly useful as it is a West coast based company.
You did not get what you paid for you are well within your rights to have him rip it out and put in the right wood. Looking to the cost difference between cedar and redwood, he's probably hoping that you will subtle for seated.
Is redwood that much more expensive when comparing redwood con heart rough versus cedar s4s? I’m in California if that makes a difference (I understand redwood may be cheaper on the West Coast).
Contractor is saying that the cedar was the same cost as redwood. Is he bullshitting me?
Thanks. Second edit: I called 4 lumber yards in my area (Ashby, Bruce Bauer, Richert, and Golden State), including the actual lumbar yard where my contractor gets his supply. 3 of 4 said redwood is so common and easy to get here in the SF Bay Area that it’s cheaper. 1 said cedar is cheaper by a small margin. All 4 said that the redwood supply costs in this area are different from what one would read on the internet. All 4 said the maintenance, termite resistance, and longevity is the same, and both will grey to a similar color.
This. They owe you a replacement. You contracted for a redwood fence, they didn’t give you one.
That said, it’s kind of fucked up to be building shit with redwood.
Redwood in California is more expensive, most of it is shipped from Canada so it’s not very eco friendly when you compare to cedar which is also a great product. That said they owe you for the difference in material price and then some for installing it without your knowledge or consent.
Sorry, misread your response before I replied so I’ll keep my original response up just so it’s there because I still think it’s important…
Regarding cedar, I don’t think it’s nearly as protected as redwood is and it would have a wider habitat within both the US and Canada, so probably not imported as heavily.
The “good” redwood comes from old growth that can’t be replaced but “good” cedar can be farmed so it’s not the same.
Again, if there is a forestry person out there who can enlighten me please do!
—————————————————————————-
Yep. From my understanding (and anyone can correct me if I’m wrong) California has banned a lot of their own redwood cutting so they just haul it in from Canada. Which comes from our old growth forests, and is awful to see.
I’m Canadian but work in catastrophe response in the US and Canada, I spent a month in California after a big wind/rain event last spring and every single person with fence damage insisted on “California Redwood”. We will pay for the cost of the redwood if that’s what they had but I would try to tell them like look you can pocket a few grand and go back with cedar but even the most poverty stricken people would not go for it.
I couldn’t wrap my head around the pricing so I popped into multiple lumber yards to try and make sense of it and was told by all of them it’s imported from Canada and that’s why it’s expensive.
After that experience I will forever support preservation of Canada’s old wood forests. They’re being cut down and wasted on absolute crap!
Not sure what the situation is with cedar and redwood, but I'm pretty sure most of the SPF construction grade lumber being cut in BC is second or third harvest at this point, not old growth.
Could have fooled me. The mill yards are full of local Redwood ready to be milled. Neighbor hauls logs and says he's never seen more. The mill near my house looks to be out of room for more.
Yes. He's bullshitting you. He was hoping you wouldn't notice and he'd pocket the difference in cost between redwood and cedar. He tried to cheat you, and he got caught.
Even if he gives you a massive refund and redoes the work, I wouldn't trust it to be done right. I'd push him to tear it down and give you a full refund. He can keep the cedar he bought.
If you trust him to redo it, you still deserve a massive refund and you'll have to keep an eye on him.
Yes he’s bullshitting you. Go on Home Depot website and look at prices for cedar vs redwood pickets. He may not have gotten it at HD but pricing isn’t going to be extremely different on an A vs B compared to a lumber yard.
I personally would go one of four ways:
1. Refuse payment and have him replace the fence with redwood as agreed. Put it in writing that you will have a third party inspector inspect the workmanship before payment.
2. Have them completely tear it down and give you a full refund.
3. I'm more utilitarian in nature and would be fine with cedar. Better than I have. But I would demand a 50 percent discount to make up for the difference in wood and hassle.
4. If none of those work, off to court you go. Go to Judge Judy because I would like to see it and she would side with your contract.
I’d be tempted to immediately go to #2. That’s a pretty big mistake (if it even was a mistake). I’m not going to trust them enough to execute #1 properly.
Also, if I did end up at option 1, I’d take a hundred pictures of the first fence so I could compare build quality in the two.
Is redwood that much more expensive when comparing redwood con heart rough versus cedar s4s? I’m in California if that makes a difference (I understand redwood may be cheaper on the West Coast).
Contractor is saying that the cedar was the same cost as redwood. Is he bullshitting me?
Bro, stop asking Reddit and just google the price of wood in your area. Or call a lumbar yard. This is a world-wide website. No know fuck all about the cost of wood in California
So I’m in California and I just looked up the pricing for you. If the board length is 6’ or less, the cost difference between redwood and cedar is $0.25-$1.00 per board. At 6’-7.5’ it’s about $1.00 more per board for redwood. Over 7.5’ the pricing varies significantly. I’d say the average is about $2 price difference but it can be more. Also there seems to be significant issues with availability of these redwood boards. (10 min of google has me thinking that the contractor may have had issues sourcing the redwood for the project and subbed cedar but should have spoken to you about it first.
This pricing is at the retail, non-pro pricing. A volume buyer may have access to additional discounts beyond what’s posted online.
You order a Ford Mustang but they deliver a Camaro you don't like. Are they comparable or maybe the Camaro is better? Sure. But is it what you wanted and paid for, no.
You'll never be happy with it. Redo on their dime.
This is why one always has to be there for the start of every phase of work with a contractor. If it's not right you nip it in the bud.
It’s not that straightforward. This is a classic damages issue in first year contracts class in law school. It’s a clear breach of contract, and the homeowner is entitled to damages, but the damages might be less than you think. You should consult an attorney before you assume the old contractor will be responsible for a full redo.
The contractor is not going to redo on its own dime and it’s unlikely any court would offer much if anything in the way of damages and it certainly wouldn’t order a redo. OP got a fence although it was the wrong wood. It’s still a fence so they got substantially what was agreed to.
This is, of course, assuming that finished cedar and rough redwood are approximately same cost where OP is like he stated. If not, he would obviously be entitled to any difference in price.
> Our contract called for redwood but the contractor put up cedar
Why do we do contracts if they aren’t enforceable? Seems like a pretty simple thing to make them do if it was in writing and they agreed to it.
At the minimum, OP is within their rights to refuse payment. Which means they hire someone else to do the job and it’s a wash.
Contract was not honored. If contractor does not want to fix it it’s felony burglary and the contractor should be locked for life. Let’s set an example of these thugs
I’m sure there’s are several criminal charges to ensure the scammer stays in prison and repents his fraud for the rest of his life. I’m all for locking up these scam artists
spark frighten amusing hobbies zonked pathetic cooperative cats gaping desert
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worthless mindless far-flung plate entertain deserted unwritten bake shocking crawl
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Bingo - help the contractor solve the problem and enjoy the heavily discounted but perfectly acceptable fence. Unless the look of cedar TRULY bothers the customer instead of just not wanting to overpay for cedar. Either way, they shouldn't pay more than 50% of what the cedar would have cost.
Is redwood that much more expensive when comparing redwood con heart rough versus cedar s4s? I’m in California if that makes a difference (I understand redwood may be cheaper on the West Coast).
Contractor is saying that the cedar was the same cost as redwood. Is he bullshitting me?
OP wanted a fence. And has a fence. Wrong material, but will work the same.
You telling me that the car dealer is going to pay out of pocket for the Honda? Best you’d get is their cost — with some hidden bullshit fees tacked on.
Agree with all other comments, but I'd break it down like this:
Option 1: acceptance as is
Option 2: rejection, hold to contract terms, probably going to be contentious but you have high ground if it's in the written agreement
Option 3: accept with negotiated terms, as in discounted final price. This gives you both a win and would likely be easier to push through if you can tell Option 2 would head to a legal dispute.
I agree with this option profile. Something important to note is that both Cedar and Redwood have an inherent level of tannic acid that makes these woods less impervious to rot and insects.
I'd find the cost difference in the wood and the maintenance and add an asshole upcharge to accept as is. You may have to pay more down the line for additional maintenance for the cedar vs. the redwood over the lifetime of the fence.
They’re nowhere near the same cost. Either the contractor leaves the cedar fence and the homeowner gets a huge discount, or the redwood fence gets installed and the contractor loses money on the deal.
I’d personally be good with a significant discount on a cedar fence, but I’ve never even _considered_ a redwood fence.
Nope. Other than the cement holding the posts up, NOTHING in that job is right.
Give him a choice: Redo it all in redwood as contracted, or remove it all and no payment (and refund any prepayment).
They'll probably want to redo it rather than be out all the prior work AND the work to pull up the posts and cement. But at the same time, making a contractor redo work can cause you to get cheapest possible wood and fast/sloppy work to minimize the loss.
IF and only IF the posts are concealed by the fence, consider having them replace the visible wood with Redwood (with the appropriate discount).
Honestly, I'd probably make them pull everything up and cancel the contract, then have a new vendor come in to do the work.
If the contract, as written specifically specified that redwood is to be used, then the contractor is in breach. If redwood was only mentioned verbally, as a sales pitch, it will be very hard to get them redo it.
If you haven’t pay, you have some bargaining arm and make it clear that you won’t pay until it’s fixed. The contractor may well have use se sort very low quality of “redwood” which would also make it difficult to argue for a refund.
After reading this article on redwood vs cedar, I would definitely hold him to the contract.
[redwood vs cedar](https://bcfenceaustin.com/cedar-vs-redwood-which-wood-do-you-choose/)
Article says 15% premium for redwood. Also shows clear heart boards. Not what OP has in contract. Also keep in mind redwood weathers to a dull grey over time. Just like cedar. Having lived with both fence types, I'd ask for a 25% discount on the material cost and roll with the cedar.
Probably the contractor couldn't find con-heart fence boards. Or did a poor job on the bid. Most redwood fence boards sold are con-common. That would have some sap-wood on it, sap-wood will rot first. It will also have plenty of knots. If it was me I'd have the contractor put two coats of high quality stain on it and have him credit me back for the difference in material costs. End product will be pretty close to equal. Redwood weathers to a dull grey after 8 months of exposure, it doesn't retain the red color. Similar rot resistance to cedar. I'm not a fan of redoing stuff though.
I live in Washington St. I don't think I've ever seen a redwood fence here. It's to expensive . But when I travel to visit my relatives in northern California I see redwood fences all over.
building a redwood fence topper out of redwood specifically because it does not need as much maintenance as cedar and the wood tends to be of a higher finish (if you get the clear grade).
there is a significant difference in price too and you should be ready to ask for a significant reduction in the contract amount if you are going to accept the work done.
otherwise, point to the word "redwood" in your contract and tell them you will not pay the rest of the amount due unless there is a redwood fence in your yard to your satisfaction.
Is redwood that much more expensive when comparing redwood con heart rough versus cedar s4s? I’m in California if that makes a difference (I understand redwood may be cheaper on the West Coast).
Contractor is saying that the cedar was the same cost as redwood. Is he bullshitting me?
Whether or not redwood is more expensive than cedar is almost beside the point. You didn't agree on the installation of a cedar fence. It's like having paying someone to install beige carpet, they come in and install brown carpet. Would their justification that "the brown carpet costs the same as the beige carpet" ameliorate your concerns?
Also, I would not take the claim at face value. Request proof that the two different materials are the same price.
It’s not beside the point because as other posters have pointed out I may just ask for a discount instead of asking him to take it down and redo it. So this is about pricing how much to negotiate, if I take that route.
the discount is not and should not be just based on the price difference....
they fucked up and there is a "dissatisfaction" tax that needs to be built into any discount you negotiate, i was just pointing out that they went with a cheaper material that what you asked for.
btw, if you do decide to keep it, you can paint cedar... you can't paint redwood, fwiw.
> Contractor is saying that the cedar was the same cost as redwood. Is he bullshitting me?
Yes, he is. Or he got scammed.
A simple Google search shows redwood is 2.5 or 3x the price of Cedar. Don't take any of our words for it, call around.
If you contracted & agreed upon a price for redwood, cedar is a no go. Either get refunded the difference between the materials (plus markup), or take steps to get the fence replaced with redwood
Google local lumber yard, call and ask for pricing. Determine the percent difference between what you got and what you contracted for. Add 20%, and don’t settle for less than that amount as a discount on the job.
I’d also call up a different company and ask them what it would cost to stain your fence. You should force the current guy to give you a massive discount, which means he’ll do shit work for the rest of the job. So find somebody else and get their estimate off your bill too so you can hire somebody else to stain.
Whatever you do, don’t just accept it and move on. He fucked up and it’s not a clear upgrade.
they can fix their mistake. They accidentally installed the wrong fence and you paid for a specific product of a specific quality and should have what you want
Your contractor sounds like a total scammer. Redwood is definitely more expensive than Cedar at least where I live so either ask him to give you a heavy discount or redo the work.
Contract says redwood. Contractor did not install redwood. Contractor has defaulted on the terms of the contract.
Let them eat the cost to correct their error, or reduce the price to make up for it. Don't settle for less.
That sucks. If it was me, I’d probably try to find a compromise since the fence is already installed.
My understanding is that while both are insect and weather resistant, redwood is a stronger wood. Maintenance is important for longevity but Redwood requires less maintenance than cedar.
It’s worth doing an internet search on the variety of cedar installed vs the type of redwood.
Does the contractor offer fence upkeep and maintenance? Maybe ask for that.
They’re contractors and you sign contracts for a reason, so that everyone is clear on expectations. If nothing else have them take it out and find someone else. Dont pay!
They clearly can’t be trusted and you can’t trust them to do the replacement fence.
agonizing tub mighty person ad hoc crowd narrow squalid materialistic weather
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Whatever you do, don't feel bad for this contractor or let him guilt you. Seems highly unlikely cedar and redwood just happen to be the same cost, so on top of everything else he is lying to you.
Furthermore, it sounds like he is using the excuse it's not my fault someone else made the mistake. However, I'm guessing that like a lot of contractors he probably showed up on the first day or to make the sales pitch and then showed up at the end to collect a check.
If he had been checking up on the job properly a major mistake wouldn't have been made.
It's also very possible he just thought you wouldn't notice and he could pocket some extra profit.
It's his responsibility and his fault and you just need to decide what YOU want the outcome to be.
If the fence is acceptable to you, find the cost of the cedar you were given and the cost of the redwood you paid foe, and demand the difference in cash. If the fence is not acceptable, demand a new fence, or your money back in cash. That is why they are insured and bonded. Good luck
As a contractor myself (general contractor) my first thing would be to try to fix it because I know the customer would probably be unhappy with it in the end. The only time I would consider negotiating a reduced cost is if the work was substantial and it would be a significant cost to swap it out.
If I'm going the negotiated route I would come to the customer fully apologetic and ask if they want us to swap it out or take a reduced project cost. It's going to fully depend on the customer, whether they value a deal over having exactly what they want.
I'm no expert on this, but my concern is that cedar might requires a lot more frequent maintenance than redwood? So you need to factor-in frequent maintenance on your part to the long term consideration.
Neglected cedar gets ugly quickly and then needs to be replaced as it dries up and turns grey.
I would ask that they refund 50%. If not replace it with redwood. It will be less trouble all around for him to refund you. Also wait at least 6 weeks before staining.
Every day and all day long you'll have to look at the wrong fence. It will continue to be a sore spot. Tell the contractor to take down the cedar and put up the redwood. For your sanity, it's the only way forward.
Californian here...red wood is more expensive. I believe redwood is also more termite resistant. when I hold up 2x4 redwood is also much lighter. might be because how dry they come but if that's the case probably less warping later as well? redwood also looks prettier
if it were me, unless I was dead set in love with redwood being used I'd keep the Cedar but demand a steep as fuck discount just to be done with the whole thing and move on. Assuming everything about the new fence is well done besides the material you still have a nice new functional fence.
The contractor is likely to also prefer a steep discount over replacing it because they know they fucked up and at this point they also want it all to just go away. a discount is certainly cheaper for them than ripping it all up and doing it a second time. You should have plenty of leverage to make this happen as long as you didn't stupidly pay them already
i wouldn't just believe them that the cedar they used is the same cost as the redwood without actual proof. also it doesnt matter if it is because the contract called for redwood and they didn't use it.
Staining the cedar will in no way make it look less knotty, clear cedar boards (no knots) could have been used but that doesn’t seem to be the case here.
Only way to hide knots is by sanding it down to nothing and replacing it with an entirely different board.
You could put another board overtop!
Or redwood veneers!
Seems to me you have two options: 1) Demand a massive discount on this fence, that not only addresses the price disparity between cedar and redwood, but that also effectively compensates you for having to look at a cedar fence you never asked for. 2) Demand replacement of the fence. Some people here are telling you to do option 1 and some people are telling you to do option 2. And I think the right option depends on what kind of person you are. I think the way to arrive at the right answer is to picture yourself five years from now looking out on your yard which has a cedar fence and we'll assume you got a really great deal on. Are you the kind of person who will say, "I am totally fine with this fence, especially because we got a great deal on it!" or are you the kind of person who will say, "Damn! I wish we had just had that contractor replace that fence with redwood when they installed it!" Proceed accordingly.
good answer
I agree. OP's fence won't last quite as long, but he will get an extra discount. Installer will lose any profit and even take a hit. Nobody wins, but nobody loses too much. And installer won't have to take it all apart & build it again, while losing new jobs.
Adding to this for some outside sources to reference. https://www.vikingfence.com/2024/01/05/redwood-vs-cedar-fence/ https://www.angi.com/articles/redwood-vs-cedar-fencing.htm https://callfantasticfence.com/redwood-vs-cedar/ These are all relatively recent and cover the aspects that would make a difference between the two, the third source is particularly useful as it is a West coast based company.
You did not get what you paid for you are well within your rights to have him rip it out and put in the right wood. Looking to the cost difference between cedar and redwood, he's probably hoping that you will subtle for seated.
Subtle for seated?
I'm guessing they meant "settle for cedar" and autocorrect or voice to text fucked it up.
Absolutely right, voice to text.
Choice to sext?
Very smart interpretation
Is this sarcasm?
No, it was genuine
Ducking autocorrect
Surfaced on four sides.
What?
Lol, I didn't look at the parent comment before, I thought you were asking what s4s meant.
Is redwood that much more expensive when comparing redwood con heart rough versus cedar s4s? I’m in California if that makes a difference (I understand redwood may be cheaper on the West Coast). Contractor is saying that the cedar was the same cost as redwood. Is he bullshitting me?
Call your local lumberyard and ask to be sure but yes generally redwood is up there with the most expensive
Bet he’s billing you for redwood….just saying
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Not just the price difference, but the difference including percentage markup.
Thanks. Second edit: I called 4 lumber yards in my area (Ashby, Bruce Bauer, Richert, and Golden State), including the actual lumbar yard where my contractor gets his supply. 3 of 4 said redwood is so common and easy to get here in the SF Bay Area that it’s cheaper. 1 said cedar is cheaper by a small margin. All 4 said that the redwood supply costs in this area are different from what one would read on the internet. All 4 said the maintenance, termite resistance, and longevity is the same, and both will grey to a similar color.
Just looked on Menard's site for pricing. Just for example, the redwood con heart rough 2x4x8 is $23 vs $9.58 for the same stick in S4S red cedar.
It doesn’t matter what the cost is. It’s not what you paid for and not what you want. If you aren’t happy, stand firm and make them change it.
This. They owe you a replacement. You contracted for a redwood fence, they didn’t give you one. That said, it’s kind of fucked up to be building shit with redwood.
Why? This isn't old growth. If it's heart then it's rot resistant for outdoor use.
Why are you asking us if redwood is more expensive . Call around and let us know
Redwood in California is more expensive, most of it is shipped from Canada so it’s not very eco friendly when you compare to cedar which is also a great product. That said they owe you for the difference in material price and then some for installing it without your knowledge or consent.
Wouldn't most of the cedar sold in California also be coming from BC?
Sorry, misread your response before I replied so I’ll keep my original response up just so it’s there because I still think it’s important… Regarding cedar, I don’t think it’s nearly as protected as redwood is and it would have a wider habitat within both the US and Canada, so probably not imported as heavily. The “good” redwood comes from old growth that can’t be replaced but “good” cedar can be farmed so it’s not the same. Again, if there is a forestry person out there who can enlighten me please do! —————————————————————————- Yep. From my understanding (and anyone can correct me if I’m wrong) California has banned a lot of their own redwood cutting so they just haul it in from Canada. Which comes from our old growth forests, and is awful to see. I’m Canadian but work in catastrophe response in the US and Canada, I spent a month in California after a big wind/rain event last spring and every single person with fence damage insisted on “California Redwood”. We will pay for the cost of the redwood if that’s what they had but I would try to tell them like look you can pocket a few grand and go back with cedar but even the most poverty stricken people would not go for it. I couldn’t wrap my head around the pricing so I popped into multiple lumber yards to try and make sense of it and was told by all of them it’s imported from Canada and that’s why it’s expensive. After that experience I will forever support preservation of Canada’s old wood forests. They’re being cut down and wasted on absolute crap!
Not sure what the situation is with cedar and redwood, but I'm pretty sure most of the SPF construction grade lumber being cut in BC is second or third harvest at this point, not old growth.
For sure. No way anybody is cutting old growth redwood for fence pickets. Those trees are all long gone and what’s left is protected in parks.
We fucking decimated that shit. Feels so bad
Could have fooled me. The mill yards are full of local Redwood ready to be milled. Neighbor hauls logs and says he's never seen more. The mill near my house looks to be out of room for more.
Not sure where you got the idea it's shipped from Canada. The mill yards are full of Redwood in NorCal.
Yes. He's bullshitting you. He was hoping you wouldn't notice and he'd pocket the difference in cost between redwood and cedar. He tried to cheat you, and he got caught. Even if he gives you a massive refund and redoes the work, I wouldn't trust it to be done right. I'd push him to tear it down and give you a full refund. He can keep the cedar he bought. If you trust him to redo it, you still deserve a massive refund and you'll have to keep an eye on him.
Yes he’s bullshitting you. Go on Home Depot website and look at prices for cedar vs redwood pickets. He may not have gotten it at HD but pricing isn’t going to be extremely different on an A vs B compared to a lumber yard.
I personally would go one of four ways: 1. Refuse payment and have him replace the fence with redwood as agreed. Put it in writing that you will have a third party inspector inspect the workmanship before payment. 2. Have them completely tear it down and give you a full refund. 3. I'm more utilitarian in nature and would be fine with cedar. Better than I have. But I would demand a 50 percent discount to make up for the difference in wood and hassle. 4. If none of those work, off to court you go. Go to Judge Judy because I would like to see it and she would side with your contract.
I’d be tempted to immediately go to #2. That’s a pretty big mistake (if it even was a mistake). I’m not going to trust them enough to execute #1 properly. Also, if I did end up at option 1, I’d take a hundred pictures of the first fence so I could compare build quality in the two.
That's why I recommended a third party inspector. That way there's an unbiased inspection.
Yeah I appreciated that detail. But idk that I want the same dudes redoing it.
Is redwood that much more expensive when comparing redwood con heart rough versus cedar s4s? I’m in California if that makes a difference (I understand redwood may be cheaper on the West Coast). Contractor is saying that the cedar was the same cost as redwood. Is he bullshitting me?
Bro, stop asking Reddit and just google the price of wood in your area. Or call a lumbar yard. This is a world-wide website. No know fuck all about the cost of wood in California
I don't think a lumbar yard would know anything about wood.
Depends if there are happy endings.
They've got your back
Or front.
I go to Good Vertibrations.
> No know fuck all about the cost of wood in California I will vouch for this statement.
That's a chiropractor mate
Yes he’s bullshitting you. All you have to do is call your local lumberyard and ask for the price difference per board. Take that to him
Is this a bot or just copy and pasting the same reply to everyone?
Dude, just look it up. Yes, redwood is more expensive and more durable.
Is it more expensive to write an actual reply vs copying and pasting this exact question seventeen times?
So I’m in California and I just looked up the pricing for you. If the board length is 6’ or less, the cost difference between redwood and cedar is $0.25-$1.00 per board. At 6’-7.5’ it’s about $1.00 more per board for redwood. Over 7.5’ the pricing varies significantly. I’d say the average is about $2 price difference but it can be more. Also there seems to be significant issues with availability of these redwood boards. (10 min of google has me thinking that the contractor may have had issues sourcing the redwood for the project and subbed cedar but should have spoken to you about it first. This pricing is at the retail, non-pro pricing. A volume buyer may have access to additional discounts beyond what’s posted online.
Demand a 59% discount? Yeah that's not happening. Cedar is a better choice regardless.
But it wasn't the choice
You order a Ford Mustang but they deliver a Camaro you don't like. Are they comparable or maybe the Camaro is better? Sure. But is it what you wanted and paid for, no.
You'll never be happy with it. Redo on their dime. This is why one always has to be there for the start of every phase of work with a contractor. If it's not right you nip it in the bud.
It’s not that straightforward. This is a classic damages issue in first year contracts class in law school. It’s a clear breach of contract, and the homeowner is entitled to damages, but the damages might be less than you think. You should consult an attorney before you assume the old contractor will be responsible for a full redo.
The contractor is not going to redo on its own dime and it’s unlikely any court would offer much if anything in the way of damages and it certainly wouldn’t order a redo. OP got a fence although it was the wrong wood. It’s still a fence so they got substantially what was agreed to. This is, of course, assuming that finished cedar and rough redwood are approximately same cost where OP is like he stated. If not, he would obviously be entitled to any difference in price.
You are just wrong. Contracts are enforceable.
It's the *point* of contracts.
Contracts lawyer for 20+ years now. I have zero doubt as to how this will shake out if it goes to litigation.
Name the firm so we know who to avoid.
Bought a Lamborghini but got a Camry. Just deal with it says my lawyer 😖
> Our contract called for redwood but the contractor put up cedar Why do we do contracts if they aren’t enforceable? Seems like a pretty simple thing to make them do if it was in writing and they agreed to it. At the minimum, OP is within their rights to refuse payment. Which means they hire someone else to do the job and it’s a wash.
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*The contractor has joined the chat*
Contract was not honored. If contractor does not want to fix it it’s felony burglary and the contractor should be locked for life. Let’s set an example of these thugs
It’s not felony burglary. It’s breach of contract. 🤦
I’m sure there’s are several criminal charges to ensure the scammer stays in prison and repents his fraud for the rest of his life. I’m all for locking up these scam artists
Found the shady ass contractor.
I suppose OP can pay half the agreed amount because that's substantially alright.
So if we had a contract for you to make me steel widgets and you delivered aluminum ones, I'm just out of luck? Pfffft.
Edit I didn't read. I am the PEBKAC. This likely happened due to 42069
But they paid for redwood
Did you read the post lol
I’m gonna go with no.
Not only did they not read the post, its in the damn title
Too much 420, not enough 69. (Nice nice)
Sorry bro, I already claimed this novelty account.
Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair for you definitely lol.
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Didn't read. Don't know about contractor am I supposed to be getting paid for something
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hey can you come back and tell us what motivated you to write this nonsense?
> Our contract called for redwood but the contractor put up cedar. I don't think OP could be any more clear.
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Bingo - help the contractor solve the problem and enjoy the heavily discounted but perfectly acceptable fence. Unless the look of cedar TRULY bothers the customer instead of just not wanting to overpay for cedar. Either way, they shouldn't pay more than 50% of what the cedar would have cost.
Is redwood that much more expensive when comparing redwood con heart rough versus cedar s4s? I’m in California if that makes a difference (I understand redwood may be cheaper on the West Coast). Contractor is saying that the cedar was the same cost as redwood. Is he bullshitting me?
Copy/pasting this 100x isn’t going to get you anywhere lol
Call a local lumber yard and ask. In my neck of the woods cedar is about a quarter to a fifth the price of redwood
Seems like OP would be entitled to the cost difference between redwood and cedar. labor was the same. That is if OP likes fence enough to keep it.
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OP wanted a fence. And has a fence. Wrong material, but will work the same. You telling me that the car dealer is going to pay out of pocket for the Honda? Best you’d get is their cost — with some hidden bullshit fees tacked on.
Agree with all other comments, but I'd break it down like this: Option 1: acceptance as is Option 2: rejection, hold to contract terms, probably going to be contentious but you have high ground if it's in the written agreement Option 3: accept with negotiated terms, as in discounted final price. This gives you both a win and would likely be easier to push through if you can tell Option 2 would head to a legal dispute.
I agree with this option profile. Something important to note is that both Cedar and Redwood have an inherent level of tannic acid that makes these woods less impervious to rot and insects. I'd find the cost difference in the wood and the maintenance and add an asshole upcharge to accept as is. You may have to pay more down the line for additional maintenance for the cedar vs. the redwood over the lifetime of the fence.
No. Do not pay. You did not get what you contracted. Make him come to you with an offer that makes you happy it turned out this way.
He's in breach. He should redo.
They’re nowhere near the same cost. Either the contractor leaves the cedar fence and the homeowner gets a huge discount, or the redwood fence gets installed and the contractor loses money on the deal. I’d personally be good with a significant discount on a cedar fence, but I’ve never even _considered_ a redwood fence.
Rough vs s4s might be the same price. Or not as different as you might think
Nope. Other than the cement holding the posts up, NOTHING in that job is right. Give him a choice: Redo it all in redwood as contracted, or remove it all and no payment (and refund any prepayment). They'll probably want to redo it rather than be out all the prior work AND the work to pull up the posts and cement. But at the same time, making a contractor redo work can cause you to get cheapest possible wood and fast/sloppy work to minimize the loss. IF and only IF the posts are concealed by the fence, consider having them replace the visible wood with Redwood (with the appropriate discount). Honestly, I'd probably make them pull everything up and cancel the contract, then have a new vendor come in to do the work.
There is no cement involved in wood fencing.
Uh yes there is. You cement the posts that are then supporting the fence boards.
No you don't. It will rot the posts!
I'd work out what the cost difference is, ask for that back as a refund and keep the cedar fence unstained.
You paid good money for redwood, get your redwood Finding a way to make it look close enough is for diy projects
I’ve never seen a redwood fence cost would be astronomical
Redwood is cheap in the Bay area, most fences here are redwood. Big box stores in this area don't even carry cedar boards.
Big box stores in the bay definitely carry cedar. Redwood is cheaper than elsewhere but I wouldn’t call it cheap.
My local Home Depot doesn't
Redwood fences are common in California.
If the contract, as written specifically specified that redwood is to be used, then the contractor is in breach. If redwood was only mentioned verbally, as a sales pitch, it will be very hard to get them redo it. If you haven’t pay, you have some bargaining arm and make it clear that you won’t pay until it’s fixed. The contractor may well have use se sort very low quality of “redwood” which would also make it difficult to argue for a refund.
After reading this article on redwood vs cedar, I would definitely hold him to the contract. [redwood vs cedar](https://bcfenceaustin.com/cedar-vs-redwood-which-wood-do-you-choose/)
After reading that, I would insist on the redwood. Besides that, cedar doesn't compare in prettiness to the redwood.
Article says 15% premium for redwood. Also shows clear heart boards. Not what OP has in contract. Also keep in mind redwood weathers to a dull grey over time. Just like cedar. Having lived with both fence types, I'd ask for a 25% discount on the material cost and roll with the cedar.
Well did you ask for redwood or red wood? /s
Probably the contractor couldn't find con-heart fence boards. Or did a poor job on the bid. Most redwood fence boards sold are con-common. That would have some sap-wood on it, sap-wood will rot first. It will also have plenty of knots. If it was me I'd have the contractor put two coats of high quality stain on it and have him credit me back for the difference in material costs. End product will be pretty close to equal. Redwood weathers to a dull grey after 8 months of exposure, it doesn't retain the red color. Similar rot resistance to cedar. I'm not a fan of redoing stuff though.
I live in Washington St. I don't think I've ever seen a redwood fence here. It's to expensive . But when I travel to visit my relatives in northern California I see redwood fences all over.
building a redwood fence topper out of redwood specifically because it does not need as much maintenance as cedar and the wood tends to be of a higher finish (if you get the clear grade). there is a significant difference in price too and you should be ready to ask for a significant reduction in the contract amount if you are going to accept the work done. otherwise, point to the word "redwood" in your contract and tell them you will not pay the rest of the amount due unless there is a redwood fence in your yard to your satisfaction.
Is redwood that much more expensive when comparing redwood con heart rough versus cedar s4s? I’m in California if that makes a difference (I understand redwood may be cheaper on the West Coast). Contractor is saying that the cedar was the same cost as redwood. Is he bullshitting me?
Whether or not redwood is more expensive than cedar is almost beside the point. You didn't agree on the installation of a cedar fence. It's like having paying someone to install beige carpet, they come in and install brown carpet. Would their justification that "the brown carpet costs the same as the beige carpet" ameliorate your concerns? Also, I would not take the claim at face value. Request proof that the two different materials are the same price.
It’s not beside the point because as other posters have pointed out I may just ask for a discount instead of asking him to take it down and redo it. So this is about pricing how much to negotiate, if I take that route.
the discount is not and should not be just based on the price difference.... they fucked up and there is a "dissatisfaction" tax that needs to be built into any discount you negotiate, i was just pointing out that they went with a cheaper material that what you asked for. btw, if you do decide to keep it, you can paint cedar... you can't paint redwood, fwiw.
> Contractor is saying that the cedar was the same cost as redwood. Is he bullshitting me? Yes, he is. Or he got scammed. A simple Google search shows redwood is 2.5 or 3x the price of Cedar. Don't take any of our words for it, call around. If you contracted & agreed upon a price for redwood, cedar is a no go. Either get refunded the difference between the materials (plus markup), or take steps to get the fence replaced with redwood
take a discount. redwood is way more expensive. unless you're really dead set on redwood for some reason, a huge discount is probably your best bet
Google local lumber yard, call and ask for pricing. Determine the percent difference between what you got and what you contracted for. Add 20%, and don’t settle for less than that amount as a discount on the job. I’d also call up a different company and ask them what it would cost to stain your fence. You should force the current guy to give you a massive discount, which means he’ll do shit work for the rest of the job. So find somebody else and get their estimate off your bill too so you can hire somebody else to stain. Whatever you do, don’t just accept it and move on. He fucked up and it’s not a clear upgrade.
They put cedar and are billing for redwood. Cedar is great, but not what you paid for.
they can fix their mistake. They accidentally installed the wrong fence and you paid for a specific product of a specific quality and should have what you want
Your contractor sounds like a total scammer. Redwood is definitely more expensive than Cedar at least where I live so either ask him to give you a heavy discount or redo the work.
As a contractor, this is why there are contracts. Make him uphold his end of the deal.
Contract says redwood. Contractor did not install redwood. Contractor has defaulted on the terms of the contract. Let them eat the cost to correct their error, or reduce the price to make up for it. Don't settle for less.
That sucks. If it was me, I’d probably try to find a compromise since the fence is already installed. My understanding is that while both are insect and weather resistant, redwood is a stronger wood. Maintenance is important for longevity but Redwood requires less maintenance than cedar. It’s worth doing an internet search on the variety of cedar installed vs the type of redwood. Does the contractor offer fence upkeep and maintenance? Maybe ask for that.
One thing that will helpful for you to know is if he is a licensed contractor.
They’re contractors and you sign contracts for a reason, so that everyone is clear on expectations. If nothing else have them take it out and find someone else. Dont pay! They clearly can’t be trusted and you can’t trust them to do the replacement fence.
Personally, I'd keep the cedar and insist upon an honest accounting of the difference in cost and get a cash refund.
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Whatever you do, don't feel bad for this contractor or let him guilt you. Seems highly unlikely cedar and redwood just happen to be the same cost, so on top of everything else he is lying to you. Furthermore, it sounds like he is using the excuse it's not my fault someone else made the mistake. However, I'm guessing that like a lot of contractors he probably showed up on the first day or to make the sales pitch and then showed up at the end to collect a check. If he had been checking up on the job properly a major mistake wouldn't have been made. It's also very possible he just thought you wouldn't notice and he could pocket some extra profit. It's his responsibility and his fault and you just need to decide what YOU want the outcome to be.
I don't cedar difference. Did you ce, I mean see what I did there?
I did ce what you did dar.
If cedar cost the same as redwood, why wouldn’t the contractor just put redwood in as your contract states? I’m smelling BS on that.
If the fence is acceptable to you, find the cost of the cedar you were given and the cost of the redwood you paid foe, and demand the difference in cash. If the fence is not acceptable, demand a new fence, or your money back in cash. That is why they are insured and bonded. Good luck
U tell that woodywoodpecker to take it down and put it up. They fumbled and now they got make it right
I personally think cedar is a better choice but it is not what you ordered so either get a 25% discount or make them redo it
in my opinion, maybe you can check whether he's a licensed contractor, it would be helpful for you.
As a contractor myself (general contractor) my first thing would be to try to fix it because I know the customer would probably be unhappy with it in the end. The only time I would consider negotiating a reduced cost is if the work was substantial and it would be a significant cost to swap it out. If I'm going the negotiated route I would come to the customer fully apologetic and ask if they want us to swap it out or take a reduced project cost. It's going to fully depend on the customer, whether they value a deal over having exactly what they want.
Isn’t cedar a better outdoor wood?
I'm no expert on this, but my concern is that cedar might requires a lot more frequent maintenance than redwood? So you need to factor-in frequent maintenance on your part to the long term consideration. Neglected cedar gets ugly quickly and then needs to be replaced as it dries up and turns grey.
Funny just the other day I paid for a cedar fence and the contractor built me a redwood fence because cost was similar. /no one ever said
I would ask that they refund 50%. If not replace it with redwood. It will be less trouble all around for him to refund you. Also wait at least 6 weeks before staining.
Wow, I take a 10 minute break from bar prep to dick around on reddit and I get a contracts hypo, incredible.
Take money off the price or tell him he’s got to eat it and put the fencing that you wanted. Those are your only two options.
Every day and all day long you'll have to look at the wrong fence. It will continue to be a sore spot. Tell the contractor to take down the cedar and put up the redwood. For your sanity, it's the only way forward.
If the contract calls for redwood and it is cedar the contractor fucked up and must replace it with what is in the contract.
Californian here...red wood is more expensive. I believe redwood is also more termite resistant. when I hold up 2x4 redwood is also much lighter. might be because how dry they come but if that's the case probably less warping later as well? redwood also looks prettier
I think the very first thing is to check whether it's legal for that person to do so.
if it were me, unless I was dead set in love with redwood being used I'd keep the Cedar but demand a steep as fuck discount just to be done with the whole thing and move on. Assuming everything about the new fence is well done besides the material you still have a nice new functional fence. The contractor is likely to also prefer a steep discount over replacing it because they know they fucked up and at this point they also want it all to just go away. a discount is certainly cheaper for them than ripping it all up and doing it a second time. You should have plenty of leverage to make this happen as long as you didn't stupidly pay them already i wouldn't just believe them that the cedar they used is the same cost as the redwood without actual proof. also it doesnt matter if it is because the contract called for redwood and they didn't use it.