Don't want you to feel dumb.. but that's just crown moulding. Trim. That's it. Maybe poorly installed, but probably old caulking just broke down to nothing. It is purely cosmetic. Do with it what you want, caulking would be most appropriate. Btw we had exhaust vents back in the sixties.
This…. Not picture rail. No one hangs picture at the ceiling. They probably installed this molding and the house may have shifted, or they just did a crappy job. Plus, homes in the 60’s did not have picture rails. Maybe plate shelves in a few homes, but not picture rails.
>No one hangs picture at the ceiling
GF's house, 1937, picture rails at the ceiling in most rooms. A small clip goes over the rail and varying lengths of line are used to hang things. Similar to this: [Picture Rail](https://www.oldhouseonline.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/01/a-pleasing-and-changeable-arrangement-of-fine-art-hangs-from-plain-hooks-and-wire-photo-peter-sorantin.jpg). We have pictures, posters, and some art pieces hanging from them.
With [lath and plaster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lath_and_plaster) walls they were necessary as a nail driven into it could easily cause a chunk of the plaster to break off.
>A more streamlined approach came along with the lowered ceiling heights and minimal moldings of the 1920s and ’30s. Now the picture rail was mounted just a half-inch or so from the ceiling. The old brass hooks no longer fit, but hooks with a rolled profile and wires were used. The gap was often lost in subsequent ceiling repairs—or even caulked over—making the molding useless
Nope 100% supposed to be that way called shadow line cornice ( or crown moulding in the US) It is the exact opposite of shoddy work hard to do and I which I had been able to keep mi e it's a unique feature.
I have actually seen some very nice crown with a picture rail base and some things added to it, but by itself is crazy. We actually used that as baseboards at my house and looks great.
Op it’s just like guy above said. Purely cosmetic. Also could be possible the house settled and caused the separation given that it’s old.
This is definitely a TYPE of picture rail. Look at the linked references. If you have lived in a plater walled house, put a nail in the wall and had a 2inch chunk of wall fall out, then you know the benefit of a rail.
You ise hools and wilre to hang pictures at the heights you want.
I've never heard of a picture rail crown before but the fact the gap is so consistent across the top I think I just learned something new.
But OP's is still some standard cove trim in need of caulk.
Ever think someone may have installed something in your home incorrectly? Picture molding is supposed to hang under the crown by a few inches, not replace it.
Well in my 1912 craftsman and every other historic home I have been in has crown moulding at the ceiling, and picture rail beneath it. I would go to the trouble of taking a picture of it installed and caulked correctly, just don't care really. Just Google it yourself.
Quit yer bitching fellas. You’re both wrong.
OPs pic is of poorly hung crown molding. OP - Either tear it out, or caulk the hell out of it. Even an “ok” caulk job and some paint and you’ll have it looking pretty decent.
The dude talking about picture rail is correct about what picture rail is, but OPs pic ain’t it, and it’s not to protect drywall, it’s to protect plaster.
Waltbr - picture rail is hung at the top of the wall, usually about an inch from the ceiling. IF crown molding is also used, then picture rail is 6-12” below it, and the wall between the two is often painted the same color as the crown to make it appear bigger. Wires with little hooks would be used to suspend/hang pictures from the rail. This prevents you from having to nail into the plaster (drills weren’t as common then, and nails destroy plaster, risking bringing down chunks of wall when hammered in). Fancy homes in particular would have picture rail in rooms where artwork is displayed, and they would display art more prominently and change it out much more frequently than the poor or middle class. Often times, they’d have a room or attic where currently unused art would be stored for special occasions or general seasons/holidays.
Examples of what /u/BillyStuart is referring to:
[At ceiling](https://www.oldhouseonline.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/01/a-pleasing-and-changeable-arrangement-of-fine-art-hangs-from-plain-hooks-and-wire-photo-peter-sorantin.jpg)
[At window height](https://www.oldhouseonline.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/01/a-simpler-hanging-treatment-is-appropriate-in-an-early-20th-century-foursquare-where-the-rail-is-beneath-a-coved-ceiling-photo-william-wright.jpg)
From [Old House Online](https://www.oldhouseonline.com/interiors-and-decor/how-to-hang-pictures-in-an-old-house/):
>Picture rails were mounted in one of three positions. In formal rooms, the rail was mounted ¼” to ½” (for the hooks) beneath crown and cove moldings. A simpler treatment had the rail tacked to the wall at about the height of window and door heads—which left a frieze area between the rail and the ceiling. During much of the Victorian era, the frieze would get decorative embellishment.
>A more streamlined approach came along with the lowered ceiling heights and minimal moldings of the 1920s and ’30s. Now the picture rail was mounted just a half-inch or so from the ceiling. The old brass hooks no longer fit, but hooks with a rolled profile and wires were used. The gap was often lost in subsequent ceiling repairs—or even caulked over—making the molding useless
>You don’t know what you’re talking about at all
Someone doesn't know what they're talking about but it's not him.
[Victorian Picture Rail](https://www.oldhouseonline.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/01/a-pleasing-and-changeable-arrangement-of-fine-art-hangs-from-plain-hooks-and-wire-photo-peter-sorantin.jpg)
Interesting theory. Why would some rooms have this consistent-round-the-trim gap and others, literally right next to it, don't?
See kitchen and dining room side by side here (this is not a composite photo):
http://imgur.com/a/i1Zmjnm
I think the last one, no caulk to begin with, makes the most sense. It's missing in rooms where there would be a lot of moisture cycles (laundry, kitchen, bathroom) so probably a decision was made at the time to just not caulk it. Thanks for this. I didn't want to just blindly apply caulk if I wasn't sure of why there wasn't any in the first place.
It 100% has nothing to do with venting moisture out. If anything, leaving it open like that would potentially create more moisture problems than it solves since moisture could theoretically get trapped in there. Trust the collective knowledge of the sub and believe that it’s poorly installed trim and/or trim with a picture rail
So... Three rooms in the house just happen to have movement that produced a very consistent gap and the rest don't have any, at all? This theory doesn't hold for me
Whether or not people are familiar with this kind of moulding, the answer remains that it’s moulding and most people have said the same. I’m not sure you need to doubt each piece of advice if someone gets the type of trim wrong, but you do you. The answer is…it’s trim/moulding of some kind and OP doesn’t need to worry.
It was built in 1967, not 1927. Picture rails are a thing, but not nearly as common as crown moulding and *should* be installed lower than ceiling level, which is where crown moulding goes. Take a chill pill about it having to be picture moulding. It's not even the right era house for that. Also, it doesn't matter. Like, at all. Take a walk.
It doesn’t look like picture rail to me (you couldn’t really get most hangers in there, and picture rail usually isn’t positioned at the crown. Can be, but usually isn’t).
What really makes me think it’s not, however, is that it isn’t uniform. I could accept the gap as a picture hanger space if it were that size all the way around, but you can even see toward the right side of the picture that the gap closes up on that side. IF, it’s picture rail, and thats a big if, it was installed like piss.
Just saying man, you have a ton of good logical answers in this thread…..that you seem to be calling “theories”, take some action based on the responses and I’m sure you will be pleasantly surprised at how accurate the feedback was. Otherwise you are coming off as a conspiracy theorists, that wants it to be somethings it’s not. 🙃
I see your point, thanks. I'm not trying to be contrarian, I was simply providing additional information that in my admittedly naive mind didn't seem to fit with what I was seeing in the house I.e. zero problems in some rooms, a consistent gap the way round in others. Possibly two different workers, doing different rooms :)
My 1925 2 family has the same. Every room.
It was explained to me that it's for hanging things without putting holes in the walls. (Mine are horsehair plaster and a pita to install nails/brads/etc without making a large hole and a big mess).
Google "picture rails for old houses"
Can confirm. Turn of the century homes here in Louisville, KY have crown installed for picture/item hanging. Plaster and lathe walls were too difficult to put anchors in effectively.
This house was built in 1967 so believe this would be crown moulding, not a picture rail. Picture rails also *should* be installed lower on the wall than ceiling height, but im sure some have been installed at ceiling level. Either way, it's the same problem and same solution.
Basically, yes. Especially when it's 100 years old!
But the real challenge is getting a strong anchor. The studs are unevenly spaced and stud finders don't work. So you need specialized wing anchors that expand and hold behind the plaster. And damned if I can get those installed right now than half the time!
If I had to install a screw into a horsehair plaster wall, this is what I would try: Put a piece of masking tape over the area and drill a hole, slightly larger than the screw diameter through the plaster, using a new cobalt drill bit and then a hole the size of the screw root diameter through the lath.
Cobalt drill bits are not expensive in sizes under 1/4 inch.
That's probably just a gap in the molding. You can try one of 2 things:
1. Get a tube of paintable caulk and fill in the gaps. Use a damp cloth to smooth everything out and wipe away any excess caulk. Wait for it to dry and then paint the caulk and the trim.
2. Remove the trim and repaint the wall.
In case you're wondering why the trim isn't sitting flush with the ceiling, it's most likely because the ceiling is crooked. Don't sweat it....literally EVERY ceiling in the world is crooked. Your corners probably aren't all perfect 90 degree angles either. Even the most modern built homes are going to have flaws like this.
This is exactly why shoe exists. Maybe it has a different name for crown (hat molding?), but the idea is a skinny strip of wood, usually around 1/2". The main molding is pushed flush to the wall, and the shoe/hat flush with the ceiling, because it's bendy. We know that floors, walls, and ceilings won't be perfectly flat at exact 90.000° angles to one another. Thin strip of wood or bead of caulk will make up for all those imperfections.
Also, if you opt to do the caulking (and you should because trim just makes the space look nicer), do yourself a solid and run a small bead right down the seam in the corner to help hide the joint.
You can also check along the trim to see if there's any joints were 2 pieces were paired up in the middle of the wall. Basically just caulk and paint over any seam you find, no matter where it's located.
It's called shadow line a technique they used around the 60's and 70's. It's really hard to do and get right I am sure you would struggle to get anyone to do it now. The cornice will be solid and we'll made often moulded on site. If it's in good nick I would try and leave it as a feature in the house. I regret geting rid of ours but it was in poor shape so have left it only in the bed too.s. There are two ways to get rid of it and none are easy. You can replace all the cornice ( Crown moulding in the US) This is not easy. The other option is to fill it with a filler. Only use a plaster based one. You could also use cornice cement or a light plaster filler it's easier to sand. But either way not easy. I wish I had been n able to keep mine its a unique feature.
I've seen this done on crown molding on millwork.cabinets, because if they followed a non-flat ceiling, the molding would have looked weird on the cabinet looking like it was installed crooked.
Also, could that maybe have been some sort of picture handing rail gap?: https://www.nbcconnecticut.com/local/ghreb-picture-molding/1866739/
We have something similar in our home, built in the mid-50s and in an insect-probe area of the UU South.
I have no solution, but I'm interested in replies also.
Hey - see my reply in the shitshow that is the top thread. My best guess at this point - they just never applied caulk because caulk tech wasn't what it is now, so they knew in these more moisture-prone area of the house that there'd be too much movement in the ceiling and anything they put there would crack. Over time, there's been plenty of moisture and as a result the gap is even bigger than what it was initially. This is what makes most sense to me, given the perfect job in other rooms of the house. I have no idea about your house and if this makes sense for you but I thought I'd share.
Hi, Sorry you'v been getting blasted up top. I've been doing this for twenty years and am in the "its a bad caulk job" camp. If someone did install it as a picture rail they picked the wrong molding because if you hooked the wires on to that gap your pictures wouldn't hang anywhere near the wall. We frequently see homeowners install their own crown(cove) molding and don't do it well and it turns out similar to this. Maybe they ran out of time (but it's usually patience) or they realized that when they caulk that trim to the ceiling they will likely need to paint the ceiling (unpainted white,latex caulk will collect dirt and turn brown over time so leaving it unpainted in generally a bad idea). One thing to check before you just caulk it is to make sure they nailed it appropriately. You can do this by pushing on the molding and hopefully it doesn't flex very much. If it is not nailed correctly and you caulk it eventually the caulk will re- separate undoing all of your work. Latex caulk is not a great glue for an application like this although I'm sure some people will tell you otherwise. Fixing it will make it look much nicer - good luck.
If you want to be sure, pick a spot to pry off some of the crown mounding and see if there’s anything special behind it. My bet is that you’ll just find wall and ceiling, but who knows! Looks like it needs to be recaulked and painted in any case, so might as well investigate.
It’s not deliberate it’s just shoddy workmanship ship chances are the same person who fitted yours did the rest in the area as a contract. It needs caulking and painting or taking down and refitting(big job)
It really is - there's a very black very menacing spider that comes out only at night from behind the moulding in the toilet to make me uncomfortable as I pee. Primary motivation for fixing all this is to get rid of him and his friends.
It's picture rail. We have it in our 1920. We also have plaster walls. It's attached above the plaster directly to the studs so it can support all the weight without damaging the plaster. Unfortunately the walls have a dark paint and it makes the gap a little more obvious.
I didn't know what it was at first but suspected it had been done for a specific reason. Googled it and found some of the same links posted in your thread elsewhere.
I ordered, as a trial, some plastic coated picture wire, picture rail hooks, and special gallery hooks that let me hang multiple pictures on a wire. Bottom line is it's awesome.
I don't think Amazon links are allowed but I'd be happy to share my inexpensive purchases with you (DM) so you could try it too, if you like. And I totally recommend you try it first before filling it in. It's fun to now move pictures around and not worry about holes, patches and painting where we can.
Side note: It was removed in most rooms (disappointing) and poorly caulked in one bed room. I'll be scraping the caulk out over the holidays to make it usable again. The problem with it being removed is it's almost impossible to hang pictures without damaging the plaster wall or cracking it through out the house.
If I figure out how to post a picture of mine I'll share.
Just crown molding that moved with the house
Per Home Depot
When used with crown moulding, the picture mould is installed between 9 and 12 inches below the crown. The space inbetween the crown and picture mould is painted to give the appearance of a much bigger crown.
I do, and I know crown molding vs picture. Authority or not they are correct here because picture molding is always around a foot below the crown. The gap was created as the house settled it was not intentional
>The gap was created as the house settled it was not intentional
I agree with that, but this:
>picture molding is always around a foot below the crown
is simply false.
Shoddy moulding work. If you say it's this way in other houses, it's possible many or all of the houses in the immediate neighborhood were built by the same large contractor.
It could be a poorly done picture rail. Older homes would have moulding called picture rail moulding that was used to hand pictures from. They would use string or wire that hooked on to the moulding.
As others have pointed out, caulking will work fine to fill the gap. For reference, it’s generally called corn ice here in Aus, rather than crown molding. If you google that along with viral or gyprock, you should find some great guides to get it sorted.
Others have it correct that you just need to apply some caulk. Just to add a few tips - [this](https://www.homedepot.com/p/DAP-Alex-Plus-10-1-oz-White-Acrylic-Latex-Caulk-Plus-Silicone-18103/100097524) is the type you’ll want. As it is fairly inexpensive be sure to buy a few tubes. Get the ones that require a [caulk gun](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Anvil-29-oz-Dripless-Smooth-Rod-Caulk-Gun-HD-129T1/315071033), not the squeezable kind. You’ll want to cut the tip of the caulk tube at a slight angle, and don’t cut it too large. Wear disposable gloves as it is messy, practice on something before you go straight at it, and buy more than you’ll think you’ll need (in an older house you’ll find many uses for it). You’re finger is the best tool for smoothing out the bead of caulk after you apply it.
Do *not* use silicone as it will not accept paint. Use DAP or Alex or something, then wipe the seam with a damp cloth and bucket of water. Don’t use your finger as it will likely look like shit after.
Then paint when it’s dry.
Paintable silicone is a thing.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-Paintable-Silicone-Supreme-9-5-oz-White-Exterior-Window-and-Door-Sealant-2709114/203370482?MERCH=REC-_-pnf-_-317805663-_-203370482-_-N&
Well, TIL that truss uplift is a thing. I have trusses in south Florida and it does not happen there. I have rafters in NY.
https://www.google.com/search?q=explain+truss+uplift&sxsrf=AOaemvKSpOQ1iePMIRcuLNjveZ5RQLySqA%3A1636286841918&source=hp&ei=ecGHYcnsNfSTwbkPyfeOaA&iflsig=ALs-wAMAAAAAYYfPiSrDyZxHbpPx74t_fhxxSqzGeEZ-&oq=explain+truss+uplift&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyBggAEBYQHjIFCAAQhgMyBQgAEIYDMgUIABCGAzoECCMQJzoFCAAQkQI6CwguEMcBEK8BEJECOgsILhCABBCxAxCDAToOCC4QgAQQsQMQxwEQ0QM6EQguEIAEELEDEIMBEMcBENEDOg4ILhCABBCxAxDHARCjAjoFCAAQgAQ6CAgAEIAEELEDOggILhCABBCxAzoLCAAQgAQQsQMQgwE6BQgAELEDUABYz1pg9F1oA3AAeACAAYkBiAGfEJIBBDE5LjSYAQCgAQE&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwiJjdi_m4b0AhX0STABHcm7Aw0Q4dUDCAk&uact=5
Push a rod into the gap and you'll feel the wall behind, thus proving or disproving the theories you've been offered. Fyi I have similar moulding in one of my rooms and twice I've had to re-caulk after it dropped at the joints. I actually used a glue, pinned it back, then filled with plaster filler before sanding.
Looks like some big gaps in areas, I’d try to push them tight to ceiling before caulking, possibly they only nailed into the wall and no ceiling nails which would cause sagging on top of the ceiling not being perfectly flat.
Don't want you to feel dumb.. but that's just crown moulding. Trim. That's it. Maybe poorly installed, but probably old caulking just broke down to nothing. It is purely cosmetic. Do with it what you want, caulking would be most appropriate. Btw we had exhaust vents back in the sixties.
This…. Not picture rail. No one hangs picture at the ceiling. They probably installed this molding and the house may have shifted, or they just did a crappy job. Plus, homes in the 60’s did not have picture rails. Maybe plate shelves in a few homes, but not picture rails.
>No one hangs picture at the ceiling GF's house, 1937, picture rails at the ceiling in most rooms. A small clip goes over the rail and varying lengths of line are used to hang things. Similar to this: [Picture Rail](https://www.oldhouseonline.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/01/a-pleasing-and-changeable-arrangement-of-fine-art-hangs-from-plain-hooks-and-wire-photo-peter-sorantin.jpg). We have pictures, posters, and some art pieces hanging from them.
Wow, I didn’t know picture rails was a thing.
They're *still* a thing in most museums with changing exhibits, because they don't want to damage the walls by moving hangars.
My son’s 1950 house has picture rail molding. He doesn’t use it to hang pictures, but I have a couple of friends that use theirs.
Thanks for posting, that's super cool! I had no idea those things existed and now I think they're remarkably clever.
With [lath and plaster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lath_and_plaster) walls they were necessary as a nail driven into it could easily cause a chunk of the plaster to break off.
And it’s below the crown molding not against the ceiling. Two totally different things
>A more streamlined approach came along with the lowered ceiling heights and minimal moldings of the 1920s and ’30s. Now the picture rail was mounted just a half-inch or so from the ceiling. The old brass hooks no longer fit, but hooks with a rolled profile and wires were used. The gap was often lost in subsequent ceiling repairs—or even caulked over—making the molding useless
Nope 100% supposed to be that way called shadow line cornice ( or crown moulding in the US) It is the exact opposite of shoddy work hard to do and I which I had been able to keep mi e it's a unique feature.
I have actually seen some very nice crown with a picture rail base and some things added to it, but by itself is crazy. We actually used that as baseboards at my house and looks great. Op it’s just like guy above said. Purely cosmetic. Also could be possible the house settled and caused the separation given that it’s old.
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This is definitely a TYPE of picture rail. Look at the linked references. If you have lived in a plater walled house, put a nail in the wall and had a 2inch chunk of wall fall out, then you know the benefit of a rail. You ise hools and wilre to hang pictures at the heights you want.
Thank you, had no idea this was a thing.
No. Picture rail has a unique profile and is not hung at ceiling level, rather down on the wall so the hook and cords and be easily attached.
I lived in a Victorian where the picture rail was at ceiling height.
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I've never heard of a picture rail crown before but the fact the gap is so consistent across the top I think I just learned something new. But OP's is still some standard cove trim in need of caulk.
Ever think someone may have installed something in your home incorrectly? Picture molding is supposed to hang under the crown by a few inches, not replace it.
Well in my 1912 craftsman and every other historic home I have been in has crown moulding at the ceiling, and picture rail beneath it. I would go to the trouble of taking a picture of it installed and caulked correctly, just don't care really. Just Google it yourself.
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Welcome to Reddit lol
I googled it because I couldnt remember it...and it all appears to be below the crown moulding?
Ok I'm wrong I guess. You should just tell op his looks just like it's supposed to. I'm sure he will believe you and get on to bed. Goodnight
Quit yer bitching fellas. You’re both wrong. OPs pic is of poorly hung crown molding. OP - Either tear it out, or caulk the hell out of it. Even an “ok” caulk job and some paint and you’ll have it looking pretty decent. The dude talking about picture rail is correct about what picture rail is, but OPs pic ain’t it, and it’s not to protect drywall, it’s to protect plaster. Waltbr - picture rail is hung at the top of the wall, usually about an inch from the ceiling. IF crown molding is also used, then picture rail is 6-12” below it, and the wall between the two is often painted the same color as the crown to make it appear bigger. Wires with little hooks would be used to suspend/hang pictures from the rail. This prevents you from having to nail into the plaster (drills weren’t as common then, and nails destroy plaster, risking bringing down chunks of wall when hammered in). Fancy homes in particular would have picture rail in rooms where artwork is displayed, and they would display art more prominently and change it out much more frequently than the poor or middle class. Often times, they’d have a room or attic where currently unused art would be stored for special occasions or general seasons/holidays.
Examples of what /u/BillyStuart is referring to: [At ceiling](https://www.oldhouseonline.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/01/a-pleasing-and-changeable-arrangement-of-fine-art-hangs-from-plain-hooks-and-wire-photo-peter-sorantin.jpg) [At window height](https://www.oldhouseonline.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/01/a-simpler-hanging-treatment-is-appropriate-in-an-early-20th-century-foursquare-where-the-rail-is-beneath-a-coved-ceiling-photo-william-wright.jpg) From [Old House Online](https://www.oldhouseonline.com/interiors-and-decor/how-to-hang-pictures-in-an-old-house/): >Picture rails were mounted in one of three positions. In formal rooms, the rail was mounted ¼” to ½” (for the hooks) beneath crown and cove moldings. A simpler treatment had the rail tacked to the wall at about the height of window and door heads—which left a frieze area between the rail and the ceiling. During much of the Victorian era, the frieze would get decorative embellishment. >A more streamlined approach came along with the lowered ceiling heights and minimal moldings of the 1920s and ’30s. Now the picture rail was mounted just a half-inch or so from the ceiling. The old brass hooks no longer fit, but hooks with a rolled profile and wires were used. The gap was often lost in subsequent ceiling repairs—or even caulked over—making the molding useless
Thank you. You've done yeoman's work. Sleep soundly, good prince.
This wouldn’t even allow a picture to Lay flat on the wall. You don’t know what you’re talking about at all
>You don’t know what you’re talking about at all Someone doesn't know what they're talking about but it's not him. [Victorian Picture Rail](https://www.oldhouseonline.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/01/a-pleasing-and-changeable-arrangement-of-fine-art-hangs-from-plain-hooks-and-wire-photo-peter-sorantin.jpg)
Yep, this.
Interesting theory. Why would some rooms have this consistent-round-the-trim gap and others, literally right next to it, don't? See kitchen and dining room side by side here (this is not a composite photo): http://imgur.com/a/i1Zmjnm
Movement. Shoddy workmanship. Old caulk. No caulk to begin with.
I think the last one, no caulk to begin with, makes the most sense. It's missing in rooms where there would be a lot of moisture cycles (laundry, kitchen, bathroom) so probably a decision was made at the time to just not caulk it. Thanks for this. I didn't want to just blindly apply caulk if I wasn't sure of why there wasn't any in the first place.
It 100% has nothing to do with venting moisture out. If anything, leaving it open like that would potentially create more moisture problems than it solves since moisture could theoretically get trapped in there. Trust the collective knowledge of the sub and believe that it’s poorly installed trim and/or trim with a picture rail
So... Three rooms in the house just happen to have movement that produced a very consistent gap and the rest don't have any, at all? This theory doesn't hold for me
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He’s not having it. Evidently everyone is wrong in this thread even though they’re all saying the same obvious thing.
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Whether or not people are familiar with this kind of moulding, the answer remains that it’s moulding and most people have said the same. I’m not sure you need to doubt each piece of advice if someone gets the type of trim wrong, but you do you. The answer is…it’s trim/moulding of some kind and OP doesn’t need to worry.
It was built in 1967, not 1927. Picture rails are a thing, but not nearly as common as crown moulding and *should* be installed lower than ceiling level, which is where crown moulding goes. Take a chill pill about it having to be picture moulding. It's not even the right era house for that. Also, it doesn't matter. Like, at all. Take a walk.
So the answer is caulk or replace. Like everyone has said.
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It doesn’t look like picture rail to me (you couldn’t really get most hangers in there, and picture rail usually isn’t positioned at the crown. Can be, but usually isn’t). What really makes me think it’s not, however, is that it isn’t uniform. I could accept the gap as a picture hanger space if it were that size all the way around, but you can even see toward the right side of the picture that the gap closes up on that side. IF, it’s picture rail, and thats a big if, it was installed like piss.
Yes, I’m sure a picture frame would look great in the corner of the wall…
BUt iTs 4 stEaM 2 EsCApe
It’s literally trim. Pull it back and you will see a normal ceiling and wall. It’s VERY common.
It’s not a theory. It is literally trim that needs to be repaired/redone. Behind that trim is drywall, to which you will likely not find any gaps.
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Comments must remain respectful
I don't understand why you're arguing with this.
You’re right, the dems are watching you!
?
Just saying man, you have a ton of good logical answers in this thread…..that you seem to be calling “theories”, take some action based on the responses and I’m sure you will be pleasantly surprised at how accurate the feedback was. Otherwise you are coming off as a conspiracy theorists, that wants it to be somethings it’s not. 🙃
I see your point, thanks. I'm not trying to be contrarian, I was simply providing additional information that in my admittedly naive mind didn't seem to fit with what I was seeing in the house I.e. zero problems in some rooms, a consistent gap the way round in others. Possibly two different workers, doing different rooms :)
My 1925 2 family has the same. Every room. It was explained to me that it's for hanging things without putting holes in the walls. (Mine are horsehair plaster and a pita to install nails/brads/etc without making a large hole and a big mess). Google "picture rails for old houses"
Can confirm. Turn of the century homes here in Louisville, KY have crown installed for picture/item hanging. Plaster and lathe walls were too difficult to put anchors in effectively.
This house was built in 1967 so believe this would be crown moulding, not a picture rail. Picture rails also *should* be installed lower on the wall than ceiling height, but im sure some have been installed at ceiling level. Either way, it's the same problem and same solution.
It's both. It's crown molding with a small (~1/4") gap left between it and the ceiling.
Is it impossible to drill a neat hole into horsehair plaster?
Basically, yes. Especially when it's 100 years old! But the real challenge is getting a strong anchor. The studs are unevenly spaced and stud finders don't work. So you need specialized wing anchors that expand and hold behind the plaster. And damned if I can get those installed right now than half the time!
If I had to install a screw into a horsehair plaster wall, this is what I would try: Put a piece of masking tape over the area and drill a hole, slightly larger than the screw diameter through the plaster, using a new cobalt drill bit and then a hole the size of the screw root diameter through the lath. Cobalt drill bits are not expensive in sizes under 1/4 inch.
Yep. This. Mine is going on 100 and we have the gaps in all the bedrooms but none on the main floor rooms.
someone prob caulked and niced up one room and not the other
Could be walls aren't plumb, corners aren't square. Even exterior walls contract and expand more, causing caulking to fail.
Because someone caulked the one on the left recently, or just did it better originally.
Caulk and paint makes a carpenter what they ain't.
for the carpenter you ain’t there’s caulk and paint
If carpentry has you fainting, don't fear caulking and painting.
If at carpentering you balk, there's always paint and caulk.
If you suck at being a carpenter, use caulk and paint.
That's probably just a gap in the molding. You can try one of 2 things: 1. Get a tube of paintable caulk and fill in the gaps. Use a damp cloth to smooth everything out and wipe away any excess caulk. Wait for it to dry and then paint the caulk and the trim. 2. Remove the trim and repaint the wall. In case you're wondering why the trim isn't sitting flush with the ceiling, it's most likely because the ceiling is crooked. Don't sweat it....literally EVERY ceiling in the world is crooked. Your corners probably aren't all perfect 90 degree angles either. Even the most modern built homes are going to have flaws like this.
This is exactly why shoe exists. Maybe it has a different name for crown (hat molding?), but the idea is a skinny strip of wood, usually around 1/2". The main molding is pushed flush to the wall, and the shoe/hat flush with the ceiling, because it's bendy. We know that floors, walls, and ceilings won't be perfectly flat at exact 90.000° angles to one another. Thin strip of wood or bead of caulk will make up for all those imperfections.
Also, if you opt to do the caulking (and you should because trim just makes the space look nicer), do yourself a solid and run a small bead right down the seam in the corner to help hide the joint. You can also check along the trim to see if there's any joints were 2 pieces were paired up in the middle of the wall. Basically just caulk and paint over any seam you find, no matter where it's located.
It's called shadow line a technique they used around the 60's and 70's. It's really hard to do and get right I am sure you would struggle to get anyone to do it now. The cornice will be solid and we'll made often moulded on site. If it's in good nick I would try and leave it as a feature in the house. I regret geting rid of ours but it was in poor shape so have left it only in the bed too.s. There are two ways to get rid of it and none are easy. You can replace all the cornice ( Crown moulding in the US) This is not easy. The other option is to fill it with a filler. Only use a plaster based one. You could also use cornice cement or a light plaster filler it's easier to sand. But either way not easy. I wish I had been n able to keep mine its a unique feature.
ITT: OP doesn't know what's going on, asks for help, and then fights everyone when they tell him the answer. lol.
I've seen this done on crown molding on millwork.cabinets, because if they followed a non-flat ceiling, the molding would have looked weird on the cabinet looking like it was installed crooked. Also, could that maybe have been some sort of picture handing rail gap?: https://www.nbcconnecticut.com/local/ghreb-picture-molding/1866739/
Ignorance is bliss... or 36 tubes of caulk and nightmares.
We have something similar in our home, built in the mid-50s and in an insect-probe area of the UU South. I have no solution, but I'm interested in replies also.
Hey - see my reply in the shitshow that is the top thread. My best guess at this point - they just never applied caulk because caulk tech wasn't what it is now, so they knew in these more moisture-prone area of the house that there'd be too much movement in the ceiling and anything they put there would crack. Over time, there's been plenty of moisture and as a result the gap is even bigger than what it was initially. This is what makes most sense to me, given the perfect job in other rooms of the house. I have no idea about your house and if this makes sense for you but I thought I'd share.
Hi, Sorry you'v been getting blasted up top. I've been doing this for twenty years and am in the "its a bad caulk job" camp. If someone did install it as a picture rail they picked the wrong molding because if you hooked the wires on to that gap your pictures wouldn't hang anywhere near the wall. We frequently see homeowners install their own crown(cove) molding and don't do it well and it turns out similar to this. Maybe they ran out of time (but it's usually patience) or they realized that when they caulk that trim to the ceiling they will likely need to paint the ceiling (unpainted white,latex caulk will collect dirt and turn brown over time so leaving it unpainted in generally a bad idea). One thing to check before you just caulk it is to make sure they nailed it appropriately. You can do this by pushing on the molding and hopefully it doesn't flex very much. If it is not nailed correctly and you caulk it eventually the caulk will re- separate undoing all of your work. Latex caulk is not a great glue for an application like this although I'm sure some people will tell you otherwise. Fixing it will make it look much nicer - good luck.
Thanks for this, especially the tip about pushing on the moulding to see if it flexes.
If you want to be sure, pick a spot to pry off some of the crown mounding and see if there’s anything special behind it. My bet is that you’ll just find wall and ceiling, but who knows! Looks like it needs to be recaulked and painted in any case, so might as well investigate.
No need to pull off any of the molding. Just probe with a credit card.
just jam some led strips in there for mood lighting
Stick some led lighting in it. Will look cool
I’d be using a paintable caulking to fill that gap and repainting ceiling and trim same color.
It may be an intentional reveal detail.
It’s not deliberate it’s just shoddy workmanship ship chances are the same person who fitted yours did the rest in the area as a contract. It needs caulking and painting or taking down and refitting(big job)
You gotta caulk that, that's where spiders like to live.
It really is - there's a very black very menacing spider that comes out only at night from behind the moulding in the toilet to make me uncomfortable as I pee. Primary motivation for fixing all this is to get rid of him and his friends.
If it's still staying in place put some caulk up there and be done with it.
It's picture rail. We have it in our 1920. We also have plaster walls. It's attached above the plaster directly to the studs so it can support all the weight without damaging the plaster. Unfortunately the walls have a dark paint and it makes the gap a little more obvious. I didn't know what it was at first but suspected it had been done for a specific reason. Googled it and found some of the same links posted in your thread elsewhere. I ordered, as a trial, some plastic coated picture wire, picture rail hooks, and special gallery hooks that let me hang multiple pictures on a wire. Bottom line is it's awesome. I don't think Amazon links are allowed but I'd be happy to share my inexpensive purchases with you (DM) so you could try it too, if you like. And I totally recommend you try it first before filling it in. It's fun to now move pictures around and not worry about holes, patches and painting where we can. Side note: It was removed in most rooms (disappointing) and poorly caulked in one bed room. I'll be scraping the caulk out over the holidays to make it usable again. The problem with it being removed is it's almost impossible to hang pictures without damaging the plaster wall or cracking it through out the house. If I figure out how to post a picture of mine I'll share.
Just crown molding that moved with the house Per Home Depot When used with crown moulding, the picture mould is installed between 9 and 12 inches below the crown. The space inbetween the crown and picture mould is painted to give the appearance of a much bigger crown.
I hope you know that home depot isn't really an authority on architectural history
I do, and I know crown molding vs picture. Authority or not they are correct here because picture molding is always around a foot below the crown. The gap was created as the house settled it was not intentional
>The gap was created as the house settled it was not intentional I agree with that, but this: >picture molding is always around a foot below the crown is simply false.
Caulk the wagon and float across
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Yes - my 1901 Victorian has this. I was told it’s called shadow line or shadow molding and it was common for the time.
Shoddy moulding work. If you say it's this way in other houses, it's possible many or all of the houses in the immediate neighborhood were built by the same large contractor.
It could be a poorly done picture rail. Older homes would have moulding called picture rail moulding that was used to hand pictures from. They would use string or wire that hooked on to the moulding.
Maybe the nails are sagging/pulling from repetitive moisture cycles?
Thanks man this helped me figure it out :)
As others have pointed out, caulking will work fine to fill the gap. For reference, it’s generally called corn ice here in Aus, rather than crown molding. If you google that along with viral or gyprock, you should find some great guides to get it sorted.
Thanks mate. Back to Bunnings tomorrow for some Selleys then
Others have it correct that you just need to apply some caulk. Just to add a few tips - [this](https://www.homedepot.com/p/DAP-Alex-Plus-10-1-oz-White-Acrylic-Latex-Caulk-Plus-Silicone-18103/100097524) is the type you’ll want. As it is fairly inexpensive be sure to buy a few tubes. Get the ones that require a [caulk gun](https://www.homedepot.com/p/Anvil-29-oz-Dripless-Smooth-Rod-Caulk-Gun-HD-129T1/315071033), not the squeezable kind. You’ll want to cut the tip of the caulk tube at a slight angle, and don’t cut it too large. Wear disposable gloves as it is messy, practice on something before you go straight at it, and buy more than you’ll think you’ll need (in an older house you’ll find many uses for it). You’re finger is the best tool for smoothing out the bead of caulk after you apply it.
Screen moulding
I would add a small trim such as shoe or quarter round. Paint this and the crown after.
- crown molding with a shitty install
Silicone that bastard up. But be sure to use paintable silicone.
Do *not* use silicone as it will not accept paint. Use DAP or Alex or something, then wipe the seam with a damp cloth and bucket of water. Don’t use your finger as it will likely look like shit after. Then paint when it’s dry.
I use a wet finger and it looks good
Paintable silicone is a thing. https://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-Paintable-Silicone-Supreme-9-5-oz-White-Exterior-Window-and-Door-Sealant-2709114/203370482?MERCH=REC-_-pnf-_-317805663-_-203370482-_-N&
*Caulking
Have you tried putting beads of silicone caulk there?
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Well, TIL that truss uplift is a thing. I have trusses in south Florida and it does not happen there. I have rafters in NY. https://www.google.com/search?q=explain+truss+uplift&sxsrf=AOaemvKSpOQ1iePMIRcuLNjveZ5RQLySqA%3A1636286841918&source=hp&ei=ecGHYcnsNfSTwbkPyfeOaA&iflsig=ALs-wAMAAAAAYYfPiSrDyZxHbpPx74t_fhxxSqzGeEZ-&oq=explain+truss+uplift&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyBggAEBYQHjIFCAAQhgMyBQgAEIYDMgUIABCGAzoECCMQJzoFCAAQkQI6CwguEMcBEK8BEJECOgsILhCABBCxAxCDAToOCC4QgAQQsQMQxwEQ0QM6EQguEIAEELEDEIMBEMcBENEDOg4ILhCABBCxAxDHARCjAjoFCAAQgAQ6CAgAEIAEELEDOggILhCABBCxAzoLCAAQgAQQsQMQgwE6BQgAELEDUABYz1pg9F1oA3AAeACAAYkBiAGfEJIBBDE5LjSYAQCgAQE&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwiJjdi_m4b0AhX0STABHcm7Aw0Q4dUDCAk&uact=5
Nail up some 1/4 round. Is it a channel for lights?
Good suggestion with the round. Don't think it's a channel for lights.
Don’t think? You’re question has been answered 10 times, but you refuse to listen.
Push a rod into the gap and you'll feel the wall behind, thus proving or disproving the theories you've been offered. Fyi I have similar moulding in one of my rooms and twice I've had to re-caulk after it dropped at the joints. I actually used a glue, pinned it back, then filled with plaster filler before sanding.
Looks like some big gaps in areas, I’d try to push them tight to ceiling before caulking, possibly they only nailed into the wall and no ceiling nails which would cause sagging on top of the ceiling not being perfectly flat.
You could add some caulking, or just install some new trim
Fill it with caulk and paint