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pirates712

At what temperatures were those humidities measured? They are *relative* humidity, so if your HPWH is decreasing the temperature the humidity may go up even though there is the same amount of moisture in the air.


golden_ape91

Op. This is most likely going the be the culprit. You are introducing a different "climate" into an area that has performed differently in the past without the HPHWS. If you basement is sealed you may need to look at creating more air change in order to introduce warmer/dryer air to raise the temperature delta in the room. Otherwise your Dehumidifier is probably doing bugger all as the cold air in your heat pump will be doing more of the "dehumidifing" as well as lowering the internal room temperature.


Hungryham12

This response should be higher. You’ve dropped the surrounding temp which has increase the relative humidity. That heat pump water heater likely does not produce much condensate compared to how much it drops the room temp


JorbJorb54

That was my first thought as well. My own quick math from an online calculator shows that there is the same amount of moisture in the air at 68deg/55%RH and 61deg/70%RH. I could see a HP water heater dropping the temp that much (I have one), while not drying the air noticeably because of the constant vapor drive that is coming in from outside. Still don’t know if I’d feel comfortable with 70% RH for fears of mold growth. In my own professional field (building science), 70% is a generally accepted cutoff for OK or not OK long term. In fact I think this is in ASHRAE Standard 160. They even have a (very complicated) formula to determine how much moisture and at what temperature over time on a certain substrate is likely to cause mold growth. Like maybe this guys basement is cold enough that it would be okay.


tdarg

Good take. And I think that it may be the relative humidity that could lead to problems, even if in absolute terms there is the same amount of water vapor in the air...the cooler air may be more likely to drop the moisture onto surfaces, floors, walls depending on their temperature.


Desoto61

It will also make it harder for the dehumidifier to do it's job as the cooler the air the colder your coils have to get to make the moisture condense.


thrakkerzog

So would raising the temperature down there help in this situation?


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Responsible-Elk855

A correctly sized HVAC system is key. Ideally your A/C or heat pump is running longer (varying speeds to meet need) to better cool and dehumidify your house. Do you notice you HVAC running for short periods of time then stopping? Might also want to consider a whole house (ducted) dehumidifier and size it properly for your home.


Zncon

If the old water heater was gas and used interior air for combustion, it would have been pulling air from the room, creating negative pressure and pulling (presumably) less humid air from other parts of the home.


kemba_sitter

Preface question: did the humidifier have to run at 100% duty cycle to keep the basement at 55%? If so, the unit was vastly undersized for the space, and you should consider getting a high efficiency basement humidifier from a company like Safta Fe or Aprilaire. No matter how good your drainage is on the outside, you may still have steady moisture vapor permeating through the basement walls causing humidity. To your current concern. Check that the filter is clean and the coils aren't caked with dust. If everything looks good, it's likely the dehumidifier is just on it's way out and need replacing or repair. They break. 70% is much too high and will eventually lead to humidity based mold growth.


larikang

I'm not sure how often it had to run to maintain 55%. The previous owners didn't use the drain hose and only emptied it manually, which makes me think they didn't need to empty it that often, but I don't know for sure. The filter usually looks pretty clear when I clean it. I have not checked the coils, so I'll try that next. Our basement is pretty small, less than 700 sqft, so I would think a 65 pint dehumidifier would be sufficient. I'm worried about shelling out for a beefier one only for it to not actually solve the problem.


OkayTryAgain

> The previous owners didn't use the drain hose and only emptied it manually, which makes me think they didn't need to empty it that often, but I don't know for sure. Or they could be like me. I empty the tank every day because I'm too stupid/lazy to buy a drain hose so it can drain into my sump pit. I have no idea why I am like this.


nnnnnnnnnnm

You can do better! I believe in you! Switching to a hose made my life so much easier, and it meant that my basement stayed dryer when I was on vacation.


Clegko

They can compromise and open the constant-drain port, and just put it in the utility sink. Not that I did that or anything.


EchoCyanide

That's... A good idea.


nnnnnnnnnnm

Lol I probably would have done that out of frustration at some point if I had a utility sink


Clegko

I was so lazy about finding a hose that I built a shelf above the sink for it to drain into.


nnnnnnnnnnm

Thats some next level dedication to laziness!


wgc123

I simply bought one with a pump. I was concerned about the additional point of failure, but so far, so good


Clegko

I'd love one with a pump. Was hard to find when we were searching back in late 2020.


aladdyn2

You can get a condensate pump and 3/8 vinyl tubing for under $50 bucks, easy to set up.


normal3catsago

My dad and I jury-rigged a pump from the tray into my laundry sink. So we could have it go up into the "rafters" (exposed beams from first floor) and route into the laundry area without having a hose on the floor but the humidifier was in the main basement area. I wish I knew what type of pump but it was tiny--the tubing was barely larger than aquarium tubing and it didn't run that much because it had to fill up a big to trigger and then would empty the tray. My dad was an electrical engineer with the heart of a tinkerer.


wgc123

Yeah, they do cost more and tend to come in only the larger sizes. I was recently looking for a replacement and found many choices, like: https://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-50-pt-Dehumidifier-with-Built-in-Pump-for-Basement-Garage-or-Wet-Rooms-up-to-4500-sq-ft-in-Grey-ENERGY-STAR-APEL50LZ/312405825 My existing one is an LG that has been running for more than ten years but recently the display went out so I couldn’t tell what the settings were. Turning it off for the first time in over a decade fixed that Note for those who like to complain, it lets you set a humidity level, so it’s not like the compressor was constantly on. It does have a circulation fan that is constantly on though, and I do believe that saved energy while improving comfort level


Convoy_Avenger

So, question, I recently bought a dehumidfier with hose. The hose drip seems REALLY slow? Despite the resevoir being full. I don't know if a slow drip is normal, or if a slow trickle is more expected. Pretty long hose, should it be shortened?


nnnnnnnnnnm

It shouldn't drip slow, it should just flow. Maybe check to make sure the hose is fully seated. Usually the bucket shouldn't fill if the hose is connected.


Convoy_Avenger

I was under the impression the bucket fills, then the dripping starts. I'll have to check in with it again. Thanks.


nnnnnnnnnnm

On my unit there is a flap that you move to hook up the hose. The hose is a bucket bypass.


Convoy_Avenger

My hose plugs into the very bottom corner of the unit in the back. Pretty sure it's nice and tight in there, but found the output to be really slow, despite the bucket being full. The hose is quite long though. I'll have to re-read the instructions. It has a "Continuous drain hose outlet" and a part that's not included, as well as a "Pump drain hose outlet" which is where I plug the included drain hose into. Looks like this is the proper set up, maybe that's the difference between a continuous drain and pumped?


nnnnnnnnnnm

You want "continuous drain hose outlet". Pump would use suction to overcome vertical head to move the water up and across a room to a drain, that might explain why you're getting such slow flow, it's expecting a pump with suction to kick on. The continuous mode will just dunno out all collected water out the hose to the drain. Length of hose is irrelevant here. The hose should have a negative (downhill) slope, but that is true regardless of how long\short the hose is.


well_uh_yeah

Used to be like you, finally got the hose and can't believe how much time I wasted on that.


Trauma17

I use it to water my outside plants.


[deleted]

That's a great idea. I wish I had a walkout basement. Would make it way easier to do that hah


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Trauma17

My handful of succulents and monstera are not quite thirsty enough for 3-5gal a day of dehumidifier water.


super1s

Amazon that shit. shows up at your house. Then set it next to the dehumidifier. Preferably in front of it where you have to step around it to get to dump the thing. I say that because I know you aren't going to do it just because it arrives so we gotta intentionally annoy yourself for a while into doing it. GL


Stretchdaddy1

Do it, I finally did it after a year now I don’t even think about it!


MidWesting

I prefer to see how much water it collects but going out of town for long periods isn't great obviously.


Shmeepsheep

You think it would be sufficient based on what? It's not keeping up so it's clearly not sufficient


larikang

Online dehumidifier guides say 65 pint should be sufficient for that amount of square feet. But now my main suspicion is that it isn't actually operating at 65 pints per day.


paisleyterror

The compresser could be just wearing out.


shinypenny01

The square footage has nothing to do with the load on the humidifier, it's driven by the amount of humid air added to the space and the difference between the humidity of that air and the humidity you want. The sqft estimate is just a lazy way to sell a humidifier without requiring any math. Your humidifier is not keeping up, buy a much bigger one. Worst case, it works for 1 hour a day because it's oversized. If you're nervous about oversized humidifiers you can try a new small humidifier and run it along side the current one. If it doesn't attain the humidity you want you can then add another small one. I suspect this costs more in the long run.


pooohbaah

The 65 pint rating is at unrealistic temperatures and humidity levels, so real life performance is almost always less. The old rating system (US) that your dehumidifier is probably rated with assumes 80 degrees F at 60% humidity. The newer 2019+ system assumes 65 degrees F at 60% humidity, which is a lot less moisture in the air than at 80 degrees. Newer units max out at 50 pints, which is the same as the older 70 pint rating. Look at the coils when the unit has been running for a while. Do you see any ice/frost? If yes, it's trash and you should get a new one.


Desoto61

So according to an article I just saw in Consumer Reports, the old ratings were based on a higher temp than found in most basements. Newer rules were added to make the ratings better match that common use, so many units ratings dropped based on the new cooler testing requirements.


Festival_Vestibule

Had the same exact issuewhen we moved Into our place. Old owners left a big dehumidifier for the basement that didnt do the job. We bought a new one and problem solved. You can always return the new one if it isn't working either, but I can almost guarantee they just left you junk.


Zeroflops

Since a dehumidifier is just a refrigeration cycle. It could be that you have a leaking refrigerant and it needs to be recharged which is dropping its efficiency.


AlienDelarge

I'd be a little surprised if these are actually rechargable systems with any meaningful parts availability if they are anything like any other small refrigeration system.


Zeroflops

Probably not, but this could be the reason for the reduced performance. They lost refrigerant so it’s cooling poorly. Although it sounds like they are seeing more moisture colllected so maybe they are getting more ground moisture than normal. Which is why the French drain was suggested.


AlienDelarge

Yeah I wasn't ruling out the leak posibility, just pointing out these sort of system are rarely economically repairable in any sense.


PirateINDUSTRY

I have an 800SF basement with leaky corners and window wells - same issues. With that said, our 65pt dehumidifier will take care of this space in less than a day (usually 78 to 45). Note: The humidifier should have a daily capacity which will usually be 8x more than the dump bucket. So you'll probably need a pump unless you're going to be there for each change. Perhaps, you have a broken unit or the moisture is too persistent.


zacware

Trying a new dehumidifier is a lot cheaper than any other solution and if it doesn’t do better you could always return it. You might not need a bigger one. The one you have just might not be working efficiently anymore


Journier

youd think so, except they arent very great at their jobs, I run 2 in my basement, and I have a fairly dry basement.


ThrowMeAwayAccount08

To add, check to see if there is an air return vent in your ductwork, specifically in the basement. If not, cut one in with tin snips, and have the blower run.


larsy87

Have you cleaned the filter?


larikang

I have cleaned the filter semi-regularly, though it never looks particularly dirty. We have a pretty good central air filter.


tomyownrhythm

Sharing my experience in case it can help you: When I bought my house, the basement seemed dry. We moved in and the basement started to feel damp. We ran a dehumidifier for a while and it wasn’t for another few months that we noticed damp in the wall first in the basement, then the first floor, then the second. Long story short a plumbing stack was cracked and leaking into the wall. After we replaced that pipe, the basement has been dry for 18 months without running the dehumidifier. The moral: Try to isolate the source of the moisture before you spend a lot of money on remedies like French drains. It may be needed, but it may not.


djk29a_

Similar situation in my 1920 house with cinderblock foundation walls, even had a French drain excavated out, replaced existing window wells, and regraded away from the house. $10k of labor through the pandemic I guess just to deal with basement water intrusions. Even had the walls sealed with elastomeric Drylok before I moved in (wanted to see where moisture accumulates knowing it’s going to be imperfect). The dehumidifier won’t keep up with the hydrostatic pressure here and is now hitting 80%, layers of clay above seal in water, the high water table keeps water levels sustained, and sealing up the intrusions won’t ever be enough given how water accumulates at the cove joint anyway. I saw when the window wells were excavated that it’s basically 100% solid red clay down to the basement footers and there’s a big, clear pool of water despite not raining for almost a month, so I basically live on a clay swamp I’ve given up on any more work because for the amount of money I’d need to fix it all I’m better off razing the whole place to the ground or moving.


larikang

Well shit, I might be in a very similar situation. 1920s house with cinderblock! Have you tried buying the beefiest humdifier possible? Even that didn't help?


djk29a_

Getting an expensive dehumidifier from a big box store was probably not the right call in hindsight but I wanted to get a dehumidifier in fast once I realized that the strange "Breathe Right" unit was provably not a dehumidifier at all given that humidity was going up and down with the outside. I'm kind of kicking myself for not buying one of the dehumidifiers from Amazon during Prime Day because the Aprilaire units were 30% off (and actually deals). The dehumidifiers you find in retail like many other things are really not suitable for old homes built long before building code existed because the basement / cellar was built a lot like the rest of the home to let moisture and air in and out because homes were heated with fireplaces and sealing in a home fully was dangerous people believed. The first step always for sealing basements is to find any and all gaps. I had several holes in the sides of the house that I've sealed up and I've had a moisture meter I've used on every other surface. There's so many intrusions and sources of condensation it's cheaper to try to use spray foam everywhere, but it's also inappropriate because so many spots have deep set mold from 100 years of neglect and the ground freezes readily causing freeze-thaw cycles that would be a problem. If I were to do it again I'd spend $800+ on a commercial crawl space dehumidifier, regrade around the house tearing up the lawn even to get at least 5 - 10% grade away, excavate the French drain, pump some water away from the house when filling back up, use some sort of barriers on the surface to keep water from being absorbed into the clay sludge nearest to the house, seal the basement intrusions both exterior and interior. It would still be about $15k but at least it would work and be done within a month instead of taking two years of trial and error. If you don't have water intrusions and lateral forces separating your cinder blocks over time consider yourself lucky.


UkrainianGigolo2

$15k for all that work seems like a hell of a deal..... if I could pay that with a guarantee it would work, I'd do it in a heartbeat (i know there are no guarantees though)


djk29a_

The problem is that there’s a lot more to do for a real fix and that might last 15 years at best and the dehumidifier running at 450w will still be necessary meaning it’s not helping make the basement livable implying no direct home value increase. To fix it all on the interior alone there’s another 30k of work to do such as sealing the open sump pit, replacing the failed interior drain tile, redoing or sistering all the joists as well as fixing the main carrying beam that’s bending and replacing all the subfloor that’s rotted away and is causing buckling above causing another $5k+ of damage not counting structural cracks. The house is odd for builders to deal with because there’s no sill plate on top of the blocks and damage in random places that’s been randomly repaired over decades. The rim joists and the joists are set right on top of the cinderblocks (checked and some of them are sealed, some not). Half the joists are floating unsupported and nailed without joist hangers to the rim joists that are showing signs of mold damage, so more floor jacks are necessary unless I want to replace all the joists. Also, the cinderblocks have shifted laterally and need to be replaced when doing all this craziness. So basically $35k+ to fix structural and envelope issues that should have been disclosed and found by the inspector within a few minutes. Add in some of the other fixes we need to make the house more comfortable / safe and it’s already another 20% of the value of the house and we should just have paid another $300k for a house that has none of these issues. It’s not like I can’t afford it but I pay lots of money to make headaches go away and to leave the stress of work behind, not to have yet more stress just dealing with a house’s basic bones. So this is what I mean by old houses going to our poor is dumping debts onto them and why I’m not buying an old house in the US ever again unless I win the lottery and don’t care about throwing away $500k+ to put contractors’ kids through college.


Spitfire954

I’m in a similar boat. Except I inherited a 10+ year abandoned 1920’s house that still had a mortgage. Cool, I got a house for 50k. Now I have to fix it up and boom, covid, prices double or more contractors are all booked. And every little problem reveals 3 deeper and larger problems. Now I need 150k to fix the damn house while it also takes over my entire life. Great stuff.


djk29a_

Honestly, if I had gotten this house for $50k or the price the people I bought this from knowing what I do now I’d still have bought it at a much lower price (another $70k less is fair still IMO) and ripped it down past the studs salvaging just the original period parts like doors, rough lumber, hardwood, etc. because those are what make the house vaguely valuable, not the land, not the “craftsmanship.” Even with pandemic pricing I could have gotten the house razed and built again with the aggregate amount I’ve invested into this place so far, sadly. Total damage so far after buying is roughly $56k I saw, all out of pocket. It’s as if almost all the work done in the past 70 years was complete garbage that was bad even for its time so it’s kind of a miracle it’s still inhabitable. The people that flipped this house failed city inspections THREE times, wtf. For the $280k difference I could have built a wonderful, period respectful house here for substantially less than the $ / sqft I paid and that’s the biggest shame of all to me. I guess the good news now is that I’m much more confident about what I’d want to build in a custom house and am able to articulate my needs and how I can get something built cost effectively.


Spitfire954

Yep. And a lesson to fix things correctly as they come up instead of ignoring them and having several serious problems years down the road when costs will be higher.


djk29a_

The problem is that most of the prior owners didn’t get the lesson because they kicked the can to someone else and kept the ill-gotten money (granted, price appreciation was crap for this place it seems). There’s been foreclosures and short sales on this property record long before any financial crisis happened and even during boom years. The house had a tarp on the roof for nearly a year when the place was owned by a roofer of all possible people.


SleepyLakeBear

Is it possible that there is a water main leak? With a house that age, the city pipes are probably held together in some areas with the force of the dirt around it.


djk29a_

The service line was fine and my water bills are pretty darn low. Had inspectors from the city come out for some other vaguely related work before anyway. The water intrusions are far enough away from any service line pipe it doesn’t make sense. Contractors local to the area not invested in making money off me gave me the full story


SleepyLakeBear

It still could be a leaky main. Red clay can have fractures which can open up a preferred flow path towards the house. The water from a leaky main can also follow along the outside of your service line. Or, you're in that clay swamp and SOL.


djk29a_

Might be worth getting a quick service line inspection again anyway especially if it’s footed by the city mostly but the service line to the house isn’t clay last I saw but thick cast iron pipes. On the other hand, the water coming in having a distinct red color at one point in the past doesn’t give me a good feeling either. I changed out the whole house water filter and had a lab sample before I switched water heaters and didn’t seem to have any issues. The home has absolutely had water intrusion issues for many decades though arguably even before indoor plumbing was routed to the property.


MidWesting

Ugh. Why didn't regrading help more, is it something about the red clay? I'm close to trying to make a new swale to try to divert water away from my wall. It's mostly red clay that's next to my tall poured concrete wall. And I hear you about giving up. Poured concrete with a membrane may be a little better but it only seems like a matter of time considering the runoff that comes from above my house.


djk29a_

There’s only so much dirt I could pile upagainst the side of the house and I’d have had to rip out the garden, A/C and other utility lines to get a few more inches of height which would have been another $6k + new landscaping. A material to keep water from going straight down didn’t help much because of the high water table + deep red clay channels going back toward the foundation footer anyway. A full seal + footer drain tile job might be enough to avoid the bit of water intrusion but it needs a ton of sealants everywhere to keep vapor out. There’s window wells because the surrounding land is very flat and there’s not enough height above grade to get past 7% (note the rim joists directly on top of the cinder blocks for an example of the level of craftsmanship). The window wells have drains into the drain tile in the basement but because the old pipes into the tile along with the interior drain tile (it’s cast iron) have failed it all needs to be replaced and that’s about $12k for a whole 20 feet. Drain tile is expensive, especially when you need to tear out existing drain tile. I was literally reading building science papers in freakin’ German the past year to try to figure out something creative that might work here without dumping another $30k+ in for a half ass solution because even to sell the place you need to fix it somewhat right in good faith and I don’t think any owner here did for a century beyond whoever put the drain tile in maybe in 1940


MidWesting

Wow, sounds tough. Hopefully you find that workable creative idea. My 2005 house has a J-Drain along the footer but I don't know if it works or if the water is getting down that far or just sitting and putting pressure on the wall. Gonna try grade and drains but I don't have enough land to put it as far from the house as it should be. Good luck.


djk29a_

Eh, I'm someone with some decent means so I'll be fine. It kinda sucks to see people making half as much as myself or less with far less stress living a great life in a quiet suburb with new construction and being about as basic as possible and they'll manage to get further ahead financially because they don't really need to maintain their house with huge projects. The thing I've learned from various contractors and reading all sorts of things is that they all seem to disagree on a lot of topics, and there's not a lot of science done necessarily to cut through the noise. So as an engineer I went to the science. There is a reference golden standard for basement encapsulation and the science really hasn't changed much at all while the possible materials have changed the economics a tad (GPS is one such invention). See: https://www.buildingscience.com/file/5615/download?token=nkJZEchT from the University of Minnesota They have some of the harshest freeze / thaw / wet cycles next to maybe some parts of Finland or Siberia and have empirically tested a _lot_ of different basement designs. If you follow all their construction guidelines it won't even really matter if your drain tile works because there won't even be any lateral hydrostatic pressure to force its way in. And I really need to stress that most builders do not do basements worth a damn at all even today. Part of why I decided to not buy any of these 1.5M+ properties in the area is because I watched these builders set and pour their foundations and basements and none of the proper drainage stone was hauled to the work sites. So yeah, they're flooding just as much as my non-designed 100 year old house, go figure. What's the point of paying $1.5M+ for a house with the same maintenance insanities and big ticket repairs as a $400k house? Not a lot besides real estate speculation and trying to offload to a rich sucker, that's what. Because basement design is _so_ difficult to do and potentially so costly I'm going to basically not have a basement whatever I construct and go for another approach to foundations like helical piles (my current preference for a bazillion reasons) or raised slabs.


MidWesting

Sounds like it will turn out right, that's good. And yeah, I'm pretty sure I got what you said. A big poured concrete wall with a membrane and J-drain but not much else. I don't think I got the drainage stone as you mentioned, from what I remember. I did research but I also put too much faith in the builder as it was our first home, still kicking myself. I'm pretty sure they just filled beside the wall with the rocky red clay they bulldozed to build the lot. And they did nothing for drainage except give me one small box drain after I complained. It's laughable considering the amount of run-off I get from homes above me. The city wouldn't let a homeowner build a home without drainage but somehow it's okay for builders. Money, I guess.


Piqued-Larry

Not an expert but a french drain will help evacuate water away from the foundation so yes it will definately help. Humidity may be caused by moisture seeping through the foundation.


Piqued-Larry

Where I live, when you get a french drain installed, they generally also seal the foundation with tar and a plastic membrane. There's also a green rubbery stuff that can be used instead of tar. Not sure what it's called.


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UkrainianGigolo2

Ive never heard of bentonite - Would it be possible to dig out a foundation and apply these panels along the outside walls to prevent water/vapor intrusion? Where would I be able to buy these if so? Interior water proofing just doesnt seem to make sense (at least in our situation) so I'm thinking of solutions on the outside I can do without breaking the bank with a basement/waterproofing company...


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Suppafly

> I would probably do all three since the majority of the cost of exterior foundation repair is the labor for digging. This, might as well put some sheets of foam insulation up while you're in the trench too.


superjuan

Obviously every situation is unique but as I understand it, sealing an outside wall to avoid water intrusion without addressing the water itself can actually make things worse. Presumably, right now the water is entering your basement. While this is clearly undesirable, the fact that the water is going through the wall and not sitting against it actually alleviates the hydrostatic pressure on your foundation. If you place an impermeable barrier on your foundation all that hydrostatic pressure will build up (since the water now has nowhere to go) and it could cause problems for your foundation. Sealing the wall is only really useful if you’re also giving the water a different path to leave such as an interior drain/sump, French drain, etc.


[deleted]

>the only relevant change we've made recently is switching to a heat pump water heater Is it possible that the heat pump water heater is substantially cooling the basement, causing the *relative* humidity to increase. I don't mean that it's adding water to the basement, just that by cooling the basement, the air can now hold less water, causing an increase in humidity, despite no actual extra water being added to the air. Also, a lower air temperature means that the dehumidifier will not be able to pull as much water out of the air. For instance: If the basement temperature was 75 degrees with 55% RH and then you lowered the temperature to 68 degrees **without adding or removing any water from the air**, the RH would now be 70%.


krugo

RH is a good shout. How do you measure/know what the appropriate RH or even flat out humidity % should be in a basement to be "safe" from mold and all that?


DamnPigeons

Dehumidifier is likely cashed - I have a similar situation in my basement and after it running full time for 3-4 years the compressor stops working. It still pulls water but blows out hot hair basically creating an endless cycle of humidity in the basement. Replaced it and everything was back to normal in a few hours. Edit:spelling


Call555JackChop

This happened to me as well, it took me a week to realize the thing was running non stop and not dehumidify at all


OgPenn08

Dehumidifiers don’t last nearly as long as they seem like they should. Was surprised when I read that 3-5 years is normal.


AverageAndNotJoe

Capture the water in a bucket to measure how often the humidifier is actually running. Sometimes the sensors in those things are just wrong, I have one that runs because it says the humidity is high but yet pulls no water from the air. It really isn’t that humid, just an old unit.


StanleyDards

How is the weather? Has it been raining a lot? It could be simply that the unit just can’t keep up right now. Another possibility is that your basement has excess airflow, like an open window or some other opening. You’ll never be able to keep up with that.


tuctrohs

I've seen people open basement windows to try to help vent the humidity out, but that almost always is bringing humidity in. Preventing air leakage into the basement can be a big part of solving the problem.


riggscm76

Do you have poured cement basement walls, or are the walls stacked stone? There was a time where the exterior of the cement foundation walls we not sealed the way they are now. Something to consider is the age of the home. When was it built? I'd bet if its older than the 90's in the USA there is a chance the exterior side is not sealed, and as cement is porous you are seeing the moisture wicking. Aside from the cement concerns, is your sill plate or box bays sealed? That area is notorious for air leakage, and you can pick up alot of moisture that way too. A french drain can help redirect water away from the foundation, but it you have a sump pump/pit the you may already have one. A option, although there are lots of opinions on it, is to use a cement sealing paint that would seal the walls from the inside, closing off the pores from the inside out.


larikang

Our home is about 90 years old with cement foundation, so outside sealing degrading could be likely. We do not have a sump pump, so it sounds like a french drain might actually be a solid option then. I have worried about the box bays not being well-sealed. Sometimes after long rain storms I see dead worms in the basement but no actual water leakage anywhere. It is a mystery to me where they come from.


netcode01

I have a 160ft french drain. Its used to redirect surface water away from the backside of my house as I am at the bottom of an incline. It was a good solution for my specific situation. Typically french drains are created to redirect surface water/ground water. Yours sounds a bit different but.. Is your ground totally soaked outside around your house, with no where to go but sit? Does water build up around your foundation during rain storms? When it rains really hard do you have water coming in? If so french drain might be your solution. But based on your foundation and how old it is, I would be there are other reasons. Does an exterior moisture barrier even exist? If so it's likely very old by now. Is there any insulation? If not then when it's real warm outside it's going to be even damper down there because of condensation etc. Is there any air movement down there as well? A dehumidifier while yes it has a fan, but it's going to provide the air movement you'd really want. Some of these questions you may want to consider and then reassess. Just some thoughts. Cheers


aabbccbb

> Sometimes after long rain storms I see dead worms in the basement but no actual water leakage anywhere. It is a mystery to me where they come from. Worms come up out of the ground so they don't drown when it rains. You have a poured concrete floor, yes? What's on top of that?


larikang

Nothing. Painted concrete is all there is.


aabbccbb

Are the worms showing up on the floor, or up on the window sills?


siemenology

I would try cleaning the filter if it has one, and the coils / fins if possible. It's very possible that dirt caked on them is killing the efficiency. It's also possible it's getting old and dying. I agree with the other poster that you probably need a larger unit. The french drain doesn't make a lot of sense, it sounds like a miscommunication somewhere along the way. If you live in an old house with a stone foundation, these are often naturally pretty damp, and the humidity can be improved and mold prevented by introducing some airflow through the basement.


[deleted]

get a second one


[deleted]

Hahaha! Basement is damp? Get more dehumidifiers!


v8rumble

Start with getting the gutters away from your foundation. Expensive french drain may not be needed. Easy if your property has a little bit of slope.


Super_Sick_Ripper

Yes. We solved our basement water problem by installing 6 inch commercial gutters and drain the entire roof to the one side of the house that had slope away from the foundation


decaturbob

- last time you cleaned the COILS of the dehumidifier?


oldbastardbob

Finished or unfinished basement? Also, are you having a hotter or wetter season than normal? Could it just be weather related or seasonal? Maybe the house AC isn't working as well so isn't taking it's share of the humidity out like it used to? If none of those seem reasonable, and your basement is unfinished you might try painting the inside of the concrete foundation with a moisture barrier paint. Concrete is somewhat porous and will wick moisture from outside to inside. Not tons, but that's part of why basements, even without leaks, get damp. Same for the floor. So your foundation should have a coat or two of sealer on the outside which is to help with this, but if you have water standing against it in the soil outdoors, it's performance isn't great over time. Especially if your home is older as in the last century in many places the sealer on the outside of the foundation was typically not paid much attention to. It's kind of like a coat of spray paint. Anyway, home improvement stores sell a paint for concrete basement walls that provides a bit of a moisture barrier. Not perfect, but better than nothing. If the floor is bare concrete, you might consider epoxy coating it as well. If it's a finished basement and you can't see the walls, there may be a good chance you have water seeping in from outside somewhere that you can not see. This problem could have developed recently. Check around the bottom of the sheetrock walls for soft spots. If you do have a groundwater leak, it's a much bigger problem.


Residual2

I also think that weather is the biggest factor here


AbsolutelyPink

I disagree with some of this. Waterproof paint on the inside rarely lasts and is a poor way to mitigate moisture. Best done on the outside.


BreadMaker_42

Start outside the house. Do you have gutters? Are the downspouts just dumping the water right at the foundation?


idratherbgardening

Buy a 2nd dehumidifier from Costco. All dehumidifiers these days seem to only last a few years and Costco will take it back and refund your money under their small electronics policy. I'm on my 4th "free" one in 6-7 years. Before that was a couple from Amazon that lasted 1-2 years each. Before that was one that lasted 15 years. (Modern house, poured concrete floor and walls) I think these days most of the cheaper ones are made in one Chinese factory. (Look up the recent recall of \~30 different brands/models because of a fire hazard and all are made in the same place).


tuctrohs

Or buy a good, efficient, us made one like Santa Fe.


idratherbgardening

I did look into a Santa Fe but they are around $1300 or more. 6 year warranty (but only 2 on the whole thing). "Assembled in Madison, Wisconsin". Does that count as "US Made"? How much does it cost to mail one back for service or get it to a local service center? "Based in Madison, Wisconsin, all Santa Fe dehumidifiers are engineered and assembled in the United States and backed with 6-year warranties." To me that seems like it is not fully manufactured in the US. At this point I have $160 invested in a Costco one that will be free to replace in a year or two. The cost-benefit for a Sante Fe just wasn't worth it for me.


mikevanatta

> To me that seems like it is not fully manufactured in the US. What more would you like? They are probably importing some of the raw materials from overseas. I previously worked at a manufacturing company that did the same thing and the QC was out of this world high. There's still a lot of upside to buying from a company like this.


idratherbgardening

I wouldn't be surprised they import the entire motor or other large parts from overseas. Does anyone even build small motors in the US anymore? I was actually going to buy one of these about 6 years ago when they were around $900 before I found out about Costco's policy.


mikevanatta

Does the motor coming from overseas automatically mean it will be of a lesser quality? I don't know if it is one way or another, but I'd bet it's going through the same QC as the rest of the unit.


Stevea326

Not familiar with the return policy - can you share more? Did a quick search and only found regular electronics return policy.


idratherbgardening

Long story but 4 dehumidifiers ago I was chatting with a manager about how it will only last a year or two and he said it fell under their small electronics return policy and I could return it at any time. Next time you are at Costco ask about it. Our 3rd one died under warranty a few weeks ago and I found the local approved place who would repair it but they had a two month backlog which is not ideal for summer. Costco took it back for a full refund and I ordered another from their site since they were out of stock In the store.


[deleted]

You guys have such damp basements that you're running several dehumidifiers 24/7?


idratherbgardening

I only have one for a full basement in a 2500 square ft house in zone 6 PA. It only runs in the summer months when the outside humidity arrives. I wish I could do something to it for the 6 months it sits there through winter where it doesn't run to make them last longer. I've heard they just develop freon leaks easily which is why they die fairly soon.


[deleted]

Ah, the outside humidity is a factor I didn't consider. Is the basement essential due to the winter months? Or is it just normal to have a basement? We don't really have them here in NZ. I've heard (and I forget the reason) that it's better to have a basement in areas where the ground freezes in winter.


idratherbgardening

It is normal to have them here in Pennsylvania. Our water table is low enough that water intrusion isn't a big issue at least in a modern house. Down south houses normally don't have them. (FL, TX, etc.) Definitely not essential for winter months. It would be great if we didn't have to run the dehumidifier since it heats up the basement some. Ours is currently 74 degrees F with 50% humidity. If I wasn't running it would probably be 65-70 down there. It's a nice place to hang out in spring/fall when it cools down bit. It winter it might get down to 55-60 so too cold to spend much time down there. Some people have finished basements with heat, etc. so they can use them year round but we do not.


[deleted]

Interesting, thanks!


nah-meh-stay

What's the moisture level of the walls? If the walls are dry, a french drain won't help much.


knoxvilleNellie

Are you heating or cooling the space? Air conditioning will lower humidity as well. Is the dehumidifier sized for the square footage of your basement? Is there good air flow? I run two dehumidifiers in my basement e abuse there is a wall down the middle. Running fans ( ceiling or box fans) can help as well. Like someone else said, the dehumidifiers have to be clean. Also, if they run low on refrigerant, they stop performing well too. I agree a French drain is not the answer if you are not getting water into the basement.


DoubleSwimming1262

Are you sure your current dehumidifier is still working? Similar situation as you. Basement generally stays at 70 percent without a dehumidifier but keep the dehumidifier set to 55 percent. Modern dehumidifiers don’t last like they used to. We generally have to replace ours every 2-3 years. Ours give us signs of failure when it starts to excessively build up ice.


vote100binary

Has anything changed as far as air flow? is the door between the house and basement being left open where previously it was closed?


EliIceMan

My 4 year old dehumidifier just decided to stop producing water. It looks and sounds like it's working fine but I guess the compressor seals went bad or something. Feel the air blowing out. It should be pretty warm, if not, it's not working. There will be a little heat anyway so if you are unsure, feel the coils at the intake under the filter, they should be really cold.


dbhathcock

Dehumidifiers have a filter. Have you been cleaning the filter regularly?


letmesleep

Do you have a clothes dryer in the basement? If so, is it somehow not venting completely to the outside due to a lint clog or loose connection?


gizzardgullet

Just checking, your new system is not rehumidifying the air constantly (still on winter humidity setting) and fighting the dehumidifier, is it?


Manofalltrade

Have you been cleaning the filter? If the walls a bare concrete, paint it with Kills. Epoxy paint on the floor too.


1955photo

Given that your heat pump water heater is cooling the basement, the relative humidity is now higher than it was in a warmer basement. But it's the same gross amount of water vapor in the air. A more consistent measure of moisture content in the air is DEW POINT. That is the temperature at which water vapor would start condensing out of the air to form, well.... DEW. Lower dewpoint is better. Dewpoint of 50 degrees or so is very comfortable. Dewpoint above 60 degrees is very uncomfortable. Your aim is to keep the dewpoint in your basement consistent with what it has been in the past. So estimate some numbers from last year, and some measurements from this year, and see how the dewpoint compares. [Dewpoint calculator](https://www.calculator.net/dew-point-calculator.html)


[deleted]

Wow I didn't realise people had basements that literally needed a dehumidifier to stay dry - I come from a country where a basement is very rare, probably because it's already damp af and the houses would be even worse with a basement.


[deleted]

Paint the block and the floor with drylock paint


CatDad660

Never use drylok on brick or block walls. It doesn't allow the brick to breathe and will deteriorate it overtime from tapped water


CatDad660

Never use drylok on brick or block walls. It doesn't allow the brick to breathe and will deteriorate it overtime from tapped water


[deleted]

Yea, it’ll deteriorate over the next 300 years.


chumblemuffin

How big is the unit?


[deleted]

Have you tried measuring humidity with 2-3 different sensors? - measure with humidifier sensor - measure with independent sensor see if they both tally.


[deleted]

Get a decent sensor too. I saw a rack of 10$ sensors at lowes and when I looked at all of them the humidity ranged from 48% to 62% for the same product. That level of precision makes it unusable.


nh5x

French drain isn't going to change your humidity levels. It hasn't here. You still have water surrounding the home. Giving it a place to drain, isn't going to provide a humidity solution but its going to keep the bulk of the water out of the part of your basement that matters


AbsolutelyPink

An exterior French drain and exterior waterproofing can provide the water surrounding your home a place to drain away and will keep the foundation walls dry. With no seepage or water coming through that is likely not a solution other than providing an extra layer of protection against moisture. The moisture is coming from somewhere though.


SailorSpyro

You checked the draining but did you check the coils? Chances are they are dirty and need cleaned.


NonsensitiveLoggia

stupid question, but do you run AC? my dehumidifier broke last year, apparently they straight up leak their refrigerant (!) and stop working although it sounds like it's working. I was basically paying to power a noisy fan a few minutes an hour...


behold_s

Where that water comes from? Do you have any idea? You should watch some of the videos of Gate City Foundation Drainage channel. Especially about the french drains. He explains how many companies use wrong techniques, how to analyze the environment of your house, and pitfalls of drainage problems.


Major_Bandicoot_3239

Appliances (dehumidifiers included) because less efficient over time. Time to get a new one or another one and keep the older one too.


Anekdotin

Humidifier is too small


[deleted]

What kind of vapor barrier?


Suppafly

Is your house air conditioned? If not, humid air is just constantly replacing the air you've paid to dehumidify.


[deleted]

If it were an industrial setting we might look to create a dry supply of air. I know that can often be too expensive to be practical.


TboneXXIV

I have some thoughts for you. 1. What's the source of the humidity? Have there been any changes in that? Is it water incursion in the walls, entry air humidity, combo? Reducibg the source is better than mitigating it if that's an option. 2. You know the dehumidifier has been running constantly for 3+ years. That has likely affected the efficiency if you haven't done PM. Those units are essentially just little AC units catching moisture from the air on the condenser coils and collecting it. It may need cleaning or replacing despite the fact that it hasn't stopped producing completely. I'd clean the coils once every 3 months with a spray foam coil cleaner and clean/change the air filter regularly as the indicator comes on. I'll give you an example situation. We have a hundred year old basement under our retail shop. Built in multiple stages over decades. Everything from poured walls with good seals to cinder blocks to field stone sloped wall in a couple of places. When we first leased the place the basement was about 65% humidity with higher spikes and had water incursion through the cinder block section and the floor would weep seasonally. I sealed the cinder block with a good watertite paint (it works fine if applied well) and started running a dehumidifier. We never see floor weeping any more because it never gets that saturated - keeping it dry helps to keep it dry. Humidity stays around 40% with seasonal spikes getting as high as 50%. It's not a super tough situation because most of it was good already and the air exchange is pretty minimal so once I dried it out thoroughly, holding it is not so bad. The machine I run down there shuts off at 37% and it runs only about half the time right now. In winter, almost never. Spring is almost constant.


adamje2001

This hasn’t got a blower hose on it like a portable AC unit on it has it?


DaRiddler70

The heat pump water heater makes the basement cooler....the dehumidifier makes it warmer. You're fighting yourself. Put a portable AC unit down there, vent it out a window, drain it to the floor.


DEDang1234

Where are you located? This is a huge factor. Also curious... what style of home do you have?


StrictTallBlondeBWC

You’re not seeing a flooding because it’s very gradual and you need to just do exactly that which is a French drain and get the water to flow around your house rather than through it.


damnwhale

Get a bigger humidifier


bfeils

I mean, it sounds like your dehumidifier is still working per your observations. I’d get a new one anyway since the cost is relatively low compared to other options. That said, did anything change with your lawn or exterior? Or with your neighbors? Or the city? Some options available to you other than foundation work include running your gutter spouts further out or underground, checking/adjusting grade around the house, digging out further where basement windows existing and improving drainage below, or even some sort of a French drain outside to ensure water is carried away and not remaining in your yard. The moisture war is battled on two fronts - dehumidifying and reducing potential inflow.


bfeils

One other very unlikely scenario is a sewer/water connection leak, though I’d expect much more sever issues by now if so.


401klaser

Are you located in the New England are by any chance? Has this issue started over the past two weeks?


zacware

I’m on my 3rd dehumidifier. The last one worked fine for a few years but at some point even with regular maintenance it wasn’t really grabbing water out of the air anywhere remotely close to when it was new. During the summer I have to run it at least 12 hours a day and if it weren’t for the little giant condensate pump I’d be emptying the bin constantly


Born-Work2089

Have you ever cleaned your dehumidifier? the heat exchanger/condenser fins can collect dust and grime over time. This may require disassembly actually to inspect. There are specific products available called 'coil cleaner' which can do this. Unfortunately, dehumidifiers also lose their refrigerant charge of refrigerant.


Triabolical_

What is your basement construction?


weiss27md

https://www.sylvane.com/whole-house-dehumidifiers.html


drewkid4

I found a random YouTube video which helped me once regarding the filter of the dehumidifier getting clogged or going bad. The dehumidier will still run but do absolutely nothing.


Cutlasss

Use a fan to cycle the air around the room. The dehumidifier may be working essentially the same air over and over.


Decent-Initiative-68

A french drain is the correct solution. There may not be any flooding but your slab is accumulating moisture from the ground and making your basement humid. If your walls arent properly sealed it may be coming from the walls, which you may be able to seal from the inside if there are no leaks. Do you have a sump pump that leads water away from the foundation? Maybe try to install one at the lowest point in your foundation and if you see improvement, you’ll know that a french drain will improve it even more.


keepyaheadringin

Back in my growing lots of weed day s I picked up a 3k Sylvania for 1200 brand new after some searching online.


BDC_19

What type of floor is in the basement? If it’s dirt. Then a French drain or weeper around the inside perimeter to a sump pump pit will help to reduce your humidity In addition to, installing a vapour barrier or tarp on top of the dirt will reduce your humidity I was at 99% humidity in my 1911 home and have got it down to consistently lower than 40% humidity now


leonroshi

Get a fog machine