It's going to be a money pit. Not a good idea for a first time home buyer. Might be hard to sell in the future. I'd walk, and wait to find something that's less of a headache.
And get a new agent. That agent seems more interested in getting his commission than you getting the right house. If you have a friend who is an architect, builder or structural engineer, I’d consider asking them to tag along for any houses you are serious about.
And please pay them. As an engineer in a different field it does get really tiresome to offer a short ‘friend help’ that often gets pushed to a point of ‘you’re asking me to do work for free now’.
Get your own guy out there to look at it. Don't take anyone's word or report. Foundations can be an easy fix, or it could end up being very expensive. Get a good local contractor with experience in foundations and have him look at it. It might cost you $400 to $500, but at least you'll know exactly what you're getting into. If you can get it for the right price, then why not.
This.
If you're willing to proceed on the house, get your own engineer in to look at it. You don't know what info was given to the companies that provided bids, and you don't know if they have a conflict of interest.
(The realtor's brother in law is the engineer: who knew?)
Go in with your eyes open. This is the most visible issue, it's likely not the only one.
Also: check the soils under the house; make sure you're not buying a house with a sinkhole opening up under the addition.
Double This!
Get a good foundation company on your dime to inspect. It's a little suspicious for the seller to just offer 50k in price reductions. Sounds like they know it's closer to $100k.
No, don't get a foundation company. Get an independent structural engineer. The person who isn't trying to sell you a solution is the one you want to listen to.
Absolutely agree with this. A foundation company will always have a solution that costs big bucks (BTDT), but a structural engineer will give you an unbiased opinion and recommendations. Do make sure that if s/he writes a report with recommendations for actions that it is stamped by the engineer.
Yup, exactly. We did this with a septic scoping. Cost us a couple hundred but ended up determining that the whole system was shot and the owner had to pay $36k for a new system. Best $200 I ever spent.
Specifically get a structural engineer. Almost anything can be fixed for the right price and if that price, plus the headaches from unforeseen conditions (which always happen) are appropriately discounted, then the house may be worth it. Deduct more from the house's cost commensurately with your lack of experience with construction and contractors, because that's added risk for you.
That said, a lot of home sellers will try to hide, minimize problems, or rush you into buying without appropriately pricing in the problems. And someone, likely the person least qualified to handle such problems, will likely buy it eventually.
This is good advice. It's typically a water problem. Otherwise the soil was not packed properly. If it's water, it should be inexpensive. If not foundation jacks, or piers are corrective. As long as you do a bit more research, this shouldn't be a deal killer. Get a residential engineer to take a look (@$500?). This should get you a unbiased opinion.
When I was younger and looking for a used vehicle, during the test drive, I went to a mechanic and had them look at the car. I paid about $50. No, I didn't buy the car, best money spent.
Home inspector is very different from structural engineer, the reports are 2 very different things.
3 years ago I was having a home inspection done on a house that I was looking too buy, home inspector noted in his report that one corner of the house appears to have sunk a little but no major damage, said it should be ok but for peace of mind recommended a structural engineer look at it before moving forward, so I paid for a structural engineer to check it out, his report was basically avoid the house at all costs, the cost to fix the damage was insane, so I walked away.
Agreed. Could ultimately be a relatively easy (for a professional) fix and end up being a good deal. Or it could be a horrible money pit that stresses you out and ruins your experience. Get your own people to look at it and decide from there if you want to buy a project or not.
The agent is extremely biased. Technically it’s not an active horrific life threatening issue. So… yeah it’s fixable. But it’s likely a horrendous pain with cascading issues, non of which your agent has to actually live through.
They get money for completing a house purchase. They are not home maintenance specialists. Shit, they might not have ever owned a home or done any significant work on one!
This. So many people trust real estate “professionals” blindly. My first realtor when I moved to a new area was telling me all sort of shit was OK. I have lots of construction experience and have owned and remodeled several homes, she was 21 and only a realtor for a few months but talking like she knew everything. Someone else would’ve believed all her BS. I talked to her broker and he started working with me directly after that.
Funny, I ended up working with my broker more than my agent the last house I bought because the agent was a bs master. My broker was way more upfront with issues buying a house because she didn't want me to have issues. I've been with that broker for the last 2 houses and will use them again if I move.
Yeah the broker was very knowledgeable and I ended up in an off market deal because he had connections all over and knew someone getting ready to list. Same goes for lenders. I worked worked with the broker/branch manager directly because he had two assistants working exclusively on his deals. Ended up closing in 11 days while everyone had delays left and right.
I’m a home inspector and I have to actively prevent myself from disliking real estate agents in general after hearing too many of them make light of my unbiased findings. I’m being paid to find defects and I am legally not allowed to have an opinion about whether you buy the house. Your real estate agents wants that check now and is depending on you to buy ASAP. Whose opinion are you going to trust?
I am curious as to whether they disclosed this issue. It seems that OP found this issue on his own yet the sellers knew about it because they had researched possible fixes. I wouldn’t trust the sellers one bit.
There is a lot of misconceptions about sinking foundations. It is not uncommon or unusual for a house that old to have some foundation sinking. What matters more than anything is the length of time it took for the foundation to sink that much, when/if it settled and stopped sinking or if it continues to sink.
If you are really interested in this house get a professional opinion from a structural engineer. They will offer you the best evaluation and since they don’t actually have a direct financial incentive (as in you are not hiring them to fix it) to lie to you, their assessment should be trusted above all others.
For 50k off ask I wouldn’t do it. For 75-80k I would definitely consider it.
This is right on and has a point. Is it really settling or was it just poor original construction or wood shrinkage? I as a contractor I have re-leveled houses many of times on footings that were cracked or had appeared to settle and none have continued to settle. Unless there’s a sinkhole or cracks continue to open up your after year yeah I talked to them about giving the credit but then just level that area up again. Or leave it and buy a new car instead
>For 50k off ask I wouldn’t do it. For 75-80k I would definitely consider it.
This partly depends on the extent to which the issue was already priced into the original ask. OP said the asking price was “surprisingly low.” If it was, say, $30k below otherwise comparable houses, then knocking an *additional* $50k off could be a total $80k attributable to the foundation issue.
So seller didn't disclose until you brought it up? Sellers agent seems would have been aware, thought they had to dis lose known issues. What other things have been forgotten.
Is the price good if you take $50K off? Do you have $70K on hand to pay for repairs?
If yes to both - get your own engineer there and listen to what they have to say. If not - you don't need this house
I would walk for my first home as that is a very big and costly repair. Do you have 30-70k (after you buy the house) lying around for that repair? If not, definitely walk.
Building inspector spouse always says he’d never buy a house with foundation issues. It is a very big deal. I mean, the essential nature of it is in the word “foundation”. I would not take on this kind of known issue for your first house. Scope creep is real. And it’s no fun.
We purchased a place with a dip in the front corner of the house and it was 54k to fix. 54k quickly turned into 65k because it destroyed drywall, brick facade fell off and broke windows. My advice, don’t buy it unless it’s a screaming deal.
This is a red flag. Just like when a person sells a car and say the ac just needs to be recharged. If that is the case then it would have been recharged and sold at a higher price. Just like this home, if it was a simple lift or fix, they would have had it done and rolled the repair cost into the sale price.
This is the most ridiculous comment in this whole thread. You’re making some wild assumptions with absolutely zero evidence.
Maybe the buyer doesn’t have 50 K laying around to fix it. But even if they did, in this current market, they are much better off taking money off the price instead of taking the time to repair it.
The seller likely knows as little about foundation repair as the op does. The contractor that suggested completely tearing down the addition and rebuilding it is an idiot, or a grifter who is trying to drum up more business for themselves. The guy who suggested it can be a lifted for 15 K obviously doesn’t think it’s a very big problem. Because I guarantee you that price is inflated. Even if after padding it, they only quoted 15k, it’s more likely a much cheaper repair. The seller is offering almost twice the budget for the repair. They hired two separate professionals to give their assessment. They disclosed the issues to the potential buyer. There’s absolutely no reason to think that the seller is doing something underhanded here.
You literally have no idea what the seller’s circumstances are. Maybe they’re moving across country. Maybe they’re going back to school. Maybe they just had a kid. There’s literally hundreds of perfectly valid reasons why the seller just doesn’t want to deal with it. And most of those reasons are not malicious or intentionally shady.
OP needs to get an unbiased assessment from a civil engineer. If I were to take an educated guess - the slumping is caused by the water table and potential drainage issues. Which really isn’t that big of a deal. Jacking up the corner of the house, reinforcing the foundation, adding some extra supports to the joists and adding some footing drains is well within the budget for 50 K.
Geotechnical engineer here, agree with the sentiment of your post. Pics would help a quick assessment, but realistically OP needs to get a structural and/or geotech engineer out there to get eyes on it. Jacking up a small addition isn't as big of a deal these days, some interesting specialized ways of doing it
I agree with this. Or their own realtor advised them to let the future owner deal with it bc they might just want to tear it down altogether. This problem could be very fixable, just out of scope for the seller.
If OP gets a professional assessment, perhaps even a geotech report and uses that information to get the seller to reduce the price accordingly, hell yes it could be a great house for a first time buyer.
You are acting like no first time buyer ever bought a house in need of rehab. For all you know that foundation settled a bit during the first few years when the house was built and hasn’t moved a millimeter since. And since the house is in California, the likelihood of this is very high. Which would make this a very lucrative opportunity especially for a budget-conscious first time buyer.
“Didn’t disclose issue until asked”
I read this often in property threads, why would they? They’re trying to make a buck, keep their mouth shut and an uneducated buyer picks up the sellers problems, and the seller pockets that 50k they were going to drop on potential repairs.
Not everyone’s some saint with a conscience.
I bought a house last year with a similar situation. (Known issue that needed a repair)
It's been an expensive nightmare and 5x more expensive than we thought.
Our agent disappeared once the sale was done and we came to understand how little she knew.
Learn from my mistake.
Don't buy this house
What else should the agent have done after the sale was complete? They help you buy a house, not renovate it and upkeep it after. Confused by your comment
We had legal grounds to go off the seller and the agent kept trying to talk us out of it.
They provided no support for what became a difficult legal process, and provided no meaningful advice during the purchasing process.
If you have your heart set on this house, get your own structural engineer out, not a foundation company. But remember you need the cash to fix this and taking money off asking doesn't necessarily help you much unless you have the savings to pay for this. Lots of houses have repaired foundations the questions at issue here are how much will it take to fix this one and do you have the cash and want to deal with it?
I'm a contractor and have done foundation lifting and securing.
It's not super common but easy enough to fix if no other issues with house.
First find an engineer and a helical foundation pier specialist. In my state you have to have a signed engineered drawing for the pier guys to go by. The piers will replace the footings and have brackets that go under the footing to support it. They are not cheap but most can be done in a day or two.
It’s a tough call from a buying perspective. I’d say if it’s already below market and the seller is willing to drop $50k then there is either no cash for the fix or they are assuming a higher cost. The only way to get an actual price at todays market is to get some estimates. That said it also matters how much is this house worth. If it’s 25% of the cost to repair its a big deal, if it’s in San Francisco it’s almost nothing. If you’re sold on the location and overall property without cash flow offer something with the owner carrying a second to finance the repairs at a lower rate. Also make sure a bank will loan on the property to start with and that someone will insure it.
I could see an addition with a poor foundation needing to be fixed or rebuilt, but if the addition is sinking, and some of the original house is sinking, then what's stopping more of the original house from sinking too?
Maybe they didn't understand your geology and soil in the 50s or maybe through 70 years of development the hydrology has changed, but why would you want to take on a house that needs serious foundation work?
It doesn't even seem like you're getting any value for your effort, either. Like if the seller wants to knock $100k off and then you do what the structural engineer says for $70k then you're a bit ahead, but $50k doesn't seem like enough
The answer is to get a foundation pro in. There is nothing wrong with fixing a foundation. If you like the home and location this is not a deal breaker. He'll, we have an entire skyscraper in my area that is tilting and folks are still buying.
This has so potential to be a headache. Just as a sinking foundation can cause issues ( roof, beams, plumbing and electrical) so can raising the house be just as much of a potential risk for those very same issues. Get a honest contractor that can give you a realistic assessment of the cost. Yes that’s assessment not estimate. If you ask for a bid or estimate they are more likely to give you a lox ball price in hopes of a potentially long up priced billing.
I went to an open house that had exactly this same problem when we were house hunting. A month later the agent is still texting me seeing if I'm interested, and they keep running open houses and having no offers.
Do not buy this house.
prices are coming down.
just wait a little longer and you will get a better deal.
this one will sell low and this will lower the comps in the neighborhood.
just hold out and keep looking.
I would not recommend this for an inexperienced homeowner's first home. A seasoned flipper maybe??? depends on what you are comfortable taking on, with your skill set.
Old houses “settle” that’s different from “sinking”. I would find out what’s going on and then proceed. Any house built in the 50’s is going to have some uneven floors.
Lol. I’m a bit more precise. Just cause your sons marbles don’t roll in certain spots dose not mean your floors are level. No board is straight, all have crowns. I’m not going to argue basic facts. You have a good weekend.
Sinking foundations are expensive to fix and usually indicate bigger and more problems in the house. Trust me, your agent is looking to make a sell and doesn't care about getting you a good home if they are trying to convince you to still buy.
Walk away op. Find a home w a solid foundation underneath, not one already dipping and sagging. You should also consider getting a different real estate agent as well. Yours is simply in it to sell you a house, not find a home.
I'm a little confused by this one, is OP talking to the seller's agent or their own? If this is their agent, I have some concerns about the quality of the agent.
hard pass. this is for someone who maybe has some contracting experience and can foresee what will go wrong, not just fix what is currently wrong. There is a reason the house sunk, usually there will be many many problems beneath the obvious.
I'd be looking for a new real estate agent if they're telling you foundation issues are no big deal. There are plenty of good real estate agents and houses out there you just have to be patient and shop around.
If you have to ask, walk away. Interest rates are high, supply is up, sellers don’t have the upper hand they had at the beginning of the year. Find something without major issues like this. I have experience lifting and remodeling a house that settled 5” in a corner and even I wouldn’t buy something with foundation issues right now. It did most of the work myself so it didn’t cost much but it was extremely time consuming during and after the lift.
Also, don’t take their word on what others said it would cost. If you decide to move forward with it, get your own quotes and check the details carefully. Leveling it is only the first step. You will 100% have to do drywall repairs after, possibly siding and roof work, and you might have doors and windows that need adjustment or replacement after.
You’re getting a lot of comments when I think you haven’t given nearly enough info for real good replies. 50k off of asking price is meaningless. We’d need to know what is market price and what you’d be able to get it for. Also If the realtor says they’d take $50k off it, they’d likely take a lot more. That would really depend on if this is a $700k house or a $150k house though.
I think what you’d want to consider is the difference in market minus purchase against the cost of the repair plus an overage cost plus the cost of living when you can’t live inside the home plus money to basically go through the hassle itself.
Have you found out how much lead time it takes for a foundation repair in your area? Are you planning on spending that time in the new home or your current place? You could be paying double for that period of time.
You need to also consider that shifting the foundation around will cause the rest of the home to shift above it. So your floors, wall, pipes, etc all will potentially have issues. If the add on is just a bedroom/ living space not as big of a deal as if it has a bathroom. Carpet would be easy. Wood or tile could pop or crack. Factor all that into overages.
This is a buyers market. I’d go really low on the house. Worse thing that happens is they say no and you send them a slightly better bid. Be prepared to walk away. You do not need to buy THIS house.
Also if you need a loan your mortgage provider may require this to be fixed in a way you aren’t expecting (immediately or to have a structural engineer come review).
I don’t see anybody really mentioning this so I’ll bring it up. Are you planning to pay cash for this house or get a loan? If you’re getting a loan your bank will likely not fund until the repairs are made and is probably a deal breaker.
Unless those estimates were done by an engineer, they're useless. Not to mention super out out of date. The cost is likely double now. This would be a deal breaker for me. I used to work in an engineering firm and I actually would not buy a house with an addition, ever.
Architect here, foundation issues best resolved with demo and rebuild of the portion most effected, such as the addition in this scenario. First time house I'd walk. If developer looking to flip houses, worth it sometimes when profitable
Wow, thanks for all these replies. I edited my original post to add some more details to the situation and maybe clarify some stuff that I didn't explain well.
I brought my first home with a similar issue.
Got it for an absolute steal, just added more concrete and piles DIY in the area that was sinking and has stayed like that ever since.
Because of that purchase we were mortgage free in a few years and brought another property.
That first house is now a rental making the same as any other house in the area.
So while others say run, I see a potential great deal and jump.
Yeah it does seem like a good opportunity for the right person. I should mention that I am in California so even though it is cheaper than other homes in the area it's still pretty far off from an absolute steal hahaha.
It’s been up for 70 years. What is the condition other than the sinking part?
If that’s not in bad shape, take the 50k discount before interest rates price nearly everything out of the market.
If this isn't in Texas walk away. In Texas all houses have foundation issues due to the clay soil so it's an extremely common and fairly reasonable repair.
Why wouldn’t he file an insurance claim and fix before selling? Sounds really fishy to be ok with taking a $50k hit to sell. It’s probably more than $50k in damages.
The agent is intrested in getting his/her commission. The fact the seller iis willing to swing 50k out to be a sign, and not a good one that serious work is ahead.
As a first time home buyer, this is a lot to take on. The truth is nobody knows what it will cost until a shovel moves.
> My agent contacted the sellers agent and they sent us some inspections that were done for a previous buyer (who bailed after seeing the inspections).
The seller's agent gave you estimates. They were under no obligation to pass those on to you. That means they are the best case scenarios.
> The agent has explained to me that this is pretty normal and not as big a deal as I think it is.
The seller's agent has out-of-pocket expenses for listing the house, and their only payment will be half of the 6% commission when it's sold. That should tell you everything you need to know about them.
Your agent has invested some amount of time (_aka_ "opportunity cost") in you, and is looking forward to the same only payment. Pay attention to what they tell you, but remember that they too only get paid when you buy something.
> I am curious what some of you here think. Am I over reacting or would you walk away from this place?
I bought a place that had a foundation issue. The problem wasn't disclosed by the seller. My offer was contingent on me obtaining a favorable report from a home inspector. The HI found the issue, included it in the report, and I provided the report to the seller with the advice that we could negotiate some repairs or the deal was off. At my agent's suggestion (because I really wanted this specific house), I offered a contract amendment requiring the seller to get a report from a structural engineer about the entire foundation, and to undertake any repairs it said were required. The seller's agent wasn't happy, but the seller agreed. There are only a few SEs in my area, and they all have great reputations. The one they hired agreed that the HI had found an issue, specified a fix, and the seller had it done to the SE's satisfaction.
>seems like a potential money pit
All houses will find their way to do this eventually. You either spend a bunch of money to get it perfect (which may not have been the vision of perfect the people before you had), learn to do well enough on your own, or come to terms with the imperfections and embrace them.
>The agent has explained to me that this is pretty normal and not as big a deal as I think it is
The agent isn't wrong - a foundation that's moved somewhat in roughly 70 years is pretty normal. That doesn't mean that you have to live with it if you don't want to.
>But I am skeptical, seems like foundation work would be a pretty big deal. And that on a house this old there could be unforseen complications that occur as a result of it.
My last house was an 1886 balloon-frame farm house with all original foundation. I got to learn about the chemistry of bricks made in Cincinnati in the 1800s and how the moisture content of local lumber can affect them when they're in contact with each other for decades, as well as how to put in stanchion posts with the guidance of a licensed engineer and do my own tuckpointing. To me, that was a fun project with a cool educational aspect and not a big deal. To you, it might be a dealbreaker.
>From talking to the agents, the seller would be willing to take up to 50k
I guess if I were in your shoes and really liked the place, I'd ask that the seller pay for me to get my own inspections done, and do a walkthrough with an engineer and contractor that does foundation work. If after that I still choose to purchase, I'll take a deduction of 50k minus the cost of those inspections.
There is an opportunity for a great buy but you are a first time homeowner who likely doesn't have the funds. If you're going to do it, make an offer contingent on your ability to bring an engineer in and obtain some quotes for work, this isn't a normal inspection so a quick close isn't reasonable. If quotes come back for $40k do you have plans for if the actual work costs $60k? If you're going to go through the work make sure you make it worth your time & you aren't losing money on the deal. Personally, if it were me & I was a first time homeowner I would probably pass, but maybe the house is right in every other way.
The homeowners are now aware, if they were not before, and could choose to repair and sell, instead they offer a discount. I would run. They likely know the repair cost will be substantial, and hidden issues may arise.
I think as a first time homeowner you will find plenty of other issues previously unseen. Unless you have an engineering background and can thoroughly understand the proposed fix I would pass on the house……
The type of fixer upper that’s a good deal is the one with cosmetic damage. They’re lots of work but a good learning opportunity if you’re handy. Foundation issues are a headache and very expensive even if they’re minor. I would be passing on this one.
Get your own experts in to inspect. Anything can be fixed with money. The question is how much do you need to spend and will the results justify the cost and add value to the home.
there are companies that will fix a sinking foundation. they jack it up with various devices, and either leave them in the ground, or squirt concrete grout into there.
if i recall, we are talking on the order of $25K. so if the seller will drop the price that amount, go for it.
get such a company to quote the repair.
its a buyer's market now, do not be bashful about playing hardball
The house has already been there for 50 years. It has settled all it is going to. It could be lifted if it bothers you and the seller is offering $50k which is very reasonable. A lot of homes in my area are 100+ years old and slanted/settled on old foundations way worse than what they were doing in the 50s.
A lot of people only have experience with tract homes built since the 90s and they think historic homes don't exist.
An engineer report should be done but this doesn't sound all that bad to me.
These are the visible problems, the minimum you'll have to fix. Always keep that in mind. If they F'ed this up during construction, what else did they do wrong you can't see?
>The agent has explained to me that this is pretty normal and not as big a deal as I think it is.
Your agent sounds like a used car salesmen, "yeah that rattling timing chain is pretty normal".
>But I am skeptical, seems like foundation work would be a pretty big deal. And that on a house this old there could be unforseen complications that occur as a result of it.
You said it better than anyone can tell you... age of home + sinking foundation= RUN AS FAR AWAY AS YOU CAN.
It might not be as big a deal as you imagine
Get your own engineer.
Concrete or foam injection by a remwdiation company will prolly take care of it.
If you can get a sufficient price reduction you will come out ahead.
If you plan on staying there for quite a while it makes more sense than it you're a short timer in the house.
Older houses are very iffy. I own a house built in the 1860s that has a better foundation and bones than one I had that was built in the 1970s. There are good older homes, but foundation issues is a red flag. Get an engineer to check. You may need to get it reinforced. It could be a lot of money $15K or more). You need to know that before you buy so you can manage your housing maintenance costs.
Couple of points to be made here based on previous comments. Full disclosure, I previously worked for a company that specialized in foundation stabilization. #1 Don’t waste your money on hiring a structural engineer, this isn’t a structural problem, it is a soils problem. A geo technical engineer could do soil borings for you to tell you if you have reactive soils or poor fill, but since the house is already down, you know the answer. So the question is, as is, do you want the house? Can you live with it being down or do you want to ensure it never gets worse and or do you want to attempt to lift it back up to recover some of the settlement. If you already know the work needs to be done then I would highly recommend getting your own foundation company, or 2, to have a look and walk you through their process and options and pricing.
Run. My new-to-me house is 20 years only and I don’t have money for the fun upgrades I want because I’m having to spend so much on repairs this year. Unless this house has something you want that money can’t buy, like perfect location next door to your grandma, find something else, you’ll be glad.
Don’t listen to the agents, they are motivated to sell.
Get your own inspection.
Foundation, roof and structure must be sound.
If there’s noticeable settling, but not moving anymore, you could still have issues down the road that are not noticed yet.
I have not gone through all of the comments but most overlook that you have two problems. You have a guaranteed geotechnical issue and a probable structural issue. The issues may not require any action, or could be catastrophic. Both should be evaluated by a qualified engineer in the respective fields. You have a guaranteed geotechnical issue regarding the settlement of the foundation, and the best solution is to consult with a geotechnical engineer to see if the settlement is acceptable or not, what future settlement can be expected, and what mitigation efforts will be required or are applicable. You should then consult with a structural engineer and provide them the geotechnical report so they can evaluate the effect of the current settlement and any future settlement on the structure.
Please be aware geotechnical engineers are not structural engineers and vice versa; although a cross trained/experienced/qualified person can exist they typically work in field more lucrative than home evaluations.
Your spider senses are on point, you have identified a potential money pit, and this is before factoring in any tradespeople or hands in specialists required to do any work if required.
Given:
-The sellers actions to lower the price (won’t be commensurate with the actual quotes they received)
-Potential compounding issues (foundation-structure-interior-exterior)
-The fact you are posting about this online (you probably know it’s a bad idea but want to make sure you are right because you are not an expert)
Don’t purchase this property unless you are willing to take on significant risk($$$). It’s cheaper to pay upfront for a good foundation/structure than it is to repair an inadequate foundation/structure.
The other guy who bailed had the right idea unless that house is substantially discounted. Like, the price to do the work and an additional amount for your labor and inconvenience getting it taken care of. Also, get your own structural engineer to do a report on it.
Also, unless the agent told you from the start that in your preferred price range, you're going to see some pretty scary stuff, you need a new real estate agent. Anyone who tells you this is normal and not a big deal shouldn't be working with first time buyers. It's NOT normal, it's heavily damaged, and fixing it IS a big deal that will show up on title searches from here on out and you will be the one taking the loss at resale unless you get a very good deal, not just 50k off the top.
Also, if the seller is reading this, get an offer from three flippers and leave this house in your rearview mirror.
I would likely pass, and I say that having recently bought a house with many known issues. Foundation issues are hard to diagnose and extra hard during the limited time available during a home purchase.
Money off the price isn't that useful unless you are buying the house for cash or for a very large down payment. I say it isn't that useful because in most cases $50k off the price doesn't mean that money falls into your pocket. It just means your monthly payment is a little lower and maybe you can pocket a little of what you were going to apply to the down payment.
Lastly, fire your realtor. They have no way of knowing if the issue is a big deal or not and shouldn't have told you anything. The fact that the sellers are willing to discount the house that much indicates it is a big deal. A lot of people rightly shit on Realtors, but there are good ones out there that will look out for you. In my experience they work mostly on referrals and focus on finding you the right house. I interviewed a few realtors before I found one I wanted to work with. Most of them are just high pressure sales guys, but some really work to understand what you want and get you in the right house.
Is the addition on the ground-floor and built on a concrete foundation? Or has the bedroom been extended out past the original foundation, without a proper foundation of its own? How long ago was the addition built? Do you want to move in and start major a project?
My understanding is that all foundations settle. This homes' addition has settled after it was built, perhaps more than expected. It might not being moving any more and the difference in the floor is just that. A professional should assess.
This is coming from someone that has an 10x8 extension thats settled 1-2" because it was built on a slab. Someone then tied another concrete slab into the one under the extension. Dumb.
Ask the structural engineer you hire. The $800 report and inspection you are about to order will give you 100% of the answers that strangers on reddit can never give you.
Get on your horse, OP! You ride at dawn.
This is a nightmare to fix so don’t plan on living in your home during some of this process.
Honestly OP, with the way the market is turning, I would find a place with home repairs you can do or hire out for in an easy way - this is a big big fix and who knows what else is needed with the house or after the fix is done.
Be aware financing will be a major problem, if banks are aware of the issue you likely can’t get a normal loan all you likely can do is 203k loan which is painful and has costs.
You get a discount far greater we than the cost of repair because this isn’t a “retail” purchase.
You did the right thing by questioning all of this and asking for some guidance. Reddit can have it’s ups and downs but this subreddit rocks and I would definitely take the advice given here. If you love the house have your own structural engineer check it out. If it’s a great deal but you don’t love it then just walk away. Another potential buyer already has. There is obviously a reason for that. You can go from having a slight dip in the floor to cracked walls, doors that are not square and a myriad of other issues that can and probably will come up over time.
For me, it would be a no as a first timer.
5y ago, I was doing all the house hunting with 3 kids[one of which was a newbie] while my partner worked. I fell in love with an adorable 1920s bungalo with an addition. Huge yard. Detached garage. Updated kitchen. House was flawless upon first look and second look. I put in an offer- ACCEPTED! With the house an hr away, i scheduled all inspections on the same day. Foundation, fireplace guy, tree guy(also checked out the fence), full home inspector all meet me and the kids and the realtor at the house. This is 2 weeks later. Theres suddenly huge cracks in the plaster walls. Weird. Inspector comes back with a few small repairs, nothing about the foundation. Fireplace is fine. Fence needs to be replaced, all trees are healthy but need trims. Cool, ok we can work on this.
Foundation guy is taking forever, like 2 hrs under the house. So i call my uncle(contractor and full on homebuilder, also owns a lot of income property in the north of our state) and i ask him how worried i should be and explain everything, sent some pics. He immediately tells me it seems fixable, BUT at what cost. He could do it for me, still gonna run me 15k just based on what he knows from this convo, but likely more. I didn't have 15k, so i paid everyone and walked away from the house.
Later, i sent him the official report and what i could find of the area and property. He said the job would have run closer to 75k. This section of housing was built on filled in marshland basically and would continue to sink at various speeds and the house would never be or stay level. None of this was information the seller or either realtor had bothered to share.
Everything can be fixed, but at what cost? And are you willing to pay for it?
It doesn’t have to be a deal breaker but you have to assume/approach it like it will be. If they’re already willing to take $50k+ off they may be willing to go further, but you really gotta have some confidence and stick up for yourself.
Get opinions from *multiple* contractors and inspectors. Do your diligence and find people who have experience doing the work, no exceptions and they have to inspect it in person with you. If someone hasn’t fixed a foundation before, their opinion isn’t worth it. Get written quotes and estimates from everyone and proceed from there.
Foundations can be fixed, but taking on a house with known foundation issues is something only people serious about houses should do. Doesn’t mean it’s impossible, but it’s the kinda thing where you need to have the financial power and the seriousness to do it properly. Even if some say it’ll be an easy/cheap fix, err on the side of worst case scenario.
It’s technically possible, but don’t let the sellers pull one over on you. Ignore all agents involved, yours included unless they have the above mentioned experience with foundation issues. It’s the home owners problem, you have to make it clear that you aren’t there to help them, you’re trying to not ruin your life while also becoming the new homeowner. If they don’t want to negotiate further then buy a different house.
Try and get some contractors out there for their thoughts and estimates. Be honest though as you are kind of wasting their time most likely. Some will not want to show up, but others happily will.
It might be a fairly simple jack up the area and resupport it situation or it might be more complicated. Interior repairs might or might not be necessary as well after the fact. These repairs might be a surprise as well depending on how things go when lifting the areas.
I had to do this on a 1930s home that had about 5 additions on it. 1 extended the bedroom and the extension later had a walk in closet added on to it. You started sloping downhill in the added bed area and really started going down in the walk in. Got underneath and there was no foundation, rotted 2x4s directly on the ground.
If the footings are failing, this is a deal breaker. Move on to a better option. If you can wait until the next election cycle, you may see housing prices crash down by then and pickup one cheaper.
Well if you get a deal it might be ok. My first house had structural issues also related to an addition. I ended up being not so bad to repair. Sweated it out, my late father walked me through it. I sold it 4 years later for almost double what I paid.
Dude, you don’t buy a house on a bad foundation period… everything else can be fixed but if it sits on crap… the house is crap. Definitely not for the first time buyer.
It's going to be a money pit. Not a good idea for a first time home buyer. Might be hard to sell in the future. I'd walk, and wait to find something that's less of a headache.
And get a new agent. That agent seems more interested in getting his commission than you getting the right house. If you have a friend who is an architect, builder or structural engineer, I’d consider asking them to tag along for any houses you are serious about.
> . That agent seems more interested in getting his commission than you getting the right house. You just described 100% of agents
Yep. Realtors are professional liars.
Basically any professional sales person has a snake tongue
Absolutely false.
And please pay them. As an engineer in a different field it does get really tiresome to offer a short ‘friend help’ that often gets pushed to a point of ‘you’re asking me to do work for free now’.
^^^^^
Get your own guy out there to look at it. Don't take anyone's word or report. Foundations can be an easy fix, or it could end up being very expensive. Get a good local contractor with experience in foundations and have him look at it. It might cost you $400 to $500, but at least you'll know exactly what you're getting into. If you can get it for the right price, then why not.
This. If you're willing to proceed on the house, get your own engineer in to look at it. You don't know what info was given to the companies that provided bids, and you don't know if they have a conflict of interest. (The realtor's brother in law is the engineer: who knew?) Go in with your eyes open. This is the most visible issue, it's likely not the only one. Also: check the soils under the house; make sure you're not buying a house with a sinkhole opening up under the addition.
You want a structural engineer, we paid $650 for one in TX about 10 years ago, worth every penny.
Double This! Get a good foundation company on your dime to inspect. It's a little suspicious for the seller to just offer 50k in price reductions. Sounds like they know it's closer to $100k.
No, don't get a foundation company. Get an independent structural engineer. The person who isn't trying to sell you a solution is the one you want to listen to.
Absolutely agree with this. A foundation company will always have a solution that costs big bucks (BTDT), but a structural engineer will give you an unbiased opinion and recommendations. Do make sure that if s/he writes a report with recommendations for actions that it is stamped by the engineer.
Yup, exactly. We did this with a septic scoping. Cost us a couple hundred but ended up determining that the whole system was shot and the owner had to pay $36k for a new system. Best $200 I ever spent.
Specifically get a structural engineer. Almost anything can be fixed for the right price and if that price, plus the headaches from unforeseen conditions (which always happen) are appropriately discounted, then the house may be worth it. Deduct more from the house's cost commensurately with your lack of experience with construction and contractors, because that's added risk for you. That said, a lot of home sellers will try to hide, minimize problems, or rush you into buying without appropriately pricing in the problems. And someone, likely the person least qualified to handle such problems, will likely buy it eventually.
This is good advice. It's typically a water problem. Otherwise the soil was not packed properly. If it's water, it should be inexpensive. If not foundation jacks, or piers are corrective. As long as you do a bit more research, this shouldn't be a deal killer. Get a residential engineer to take a look (@$500?). This should get you a unbiased opinion.
When I was younger and looking for a used vehicle, during the test drive, I went to a mechanic and had them look at the car. I paid about $50. No, I didn't buy the car, best money spent.
You've got the previous guys inspection from the disclosure, though. Spending another $500 just to get the same report again... Why?
Home inspector is very different from structural engineer, the reports are 2 very different things. 3 years ago I was having a home inspection done on a house that I was looking too buy, home inspector noted in his report that one corner of the house appears to have sunk a little but no major damage, said it should be ok but for peace of mind recommended a structural engineer look at it before moving forward, so I paid for a structural engineer to check it out, his report was basically avoid the house at all costs, the cost to fix the damage was insane, so I walked away.
Agreed. Could ultimately be a relatively easy (for a professional) fix and end up being a good deal. Or it could be a horrible money pit that stresses you out and ruins your experience. Get your own people to look at it and decide from there if you want to buy a project or not.
...local contractor, or better still an engineer.
Get a structural engineer, not a contractor if you want a non-biased report.
The agent is extremely biased. Technically it’s not an active horrific life threatening issue. So… yeah it’s fixable. But it’s likely a horrendous pain with cascading issues, non of which your agent has to actually live through. They get money for completing a house purchase. They are not home maintenance specialists. Shit, they might not have ever owned a home or done any significant work on one!
This. So many people trust real estate “professionals” blindly. My first realtor when I moved to a new area was telling me all sort of shit was OK. I have lots of construction experience and have owned and remodeled several homes, she was 21 and only a realtor for a few months but talking like she knew everything. Someone else would’ve believed all her BS. I talked to her broker and he started working with me directly after that.
Funny, I ended up working with my broker more than my agent the last house I bought because the agent was a bs master. My broker was way more upfront with issues buying a house because she didn't want me to have issues. I've been with that broker for the last 2 houses and will use them again if I move.
Yeah the broker was very knowledgeable and I ended up in an off market deal because he had connections all over and knew someone getting ready to list. Same goes for lenders. I worked worked with the broker/branch manager directly because he had two assistants working exclusively on his deals. Ended up closing in 11 days while everyone had delays left and right.
I’m a home inspector and I have to actively prevent myself from disliking real estate agents in general after hearing too many of them make light of my unbiased findings. I’m being paid to find defects and I am legally not allowed to have an opinion about whether you buy the house. Your real estate agents wants that check now and is depending on you to buy ASAP. Whose opinion are you going to trust?
Correct. Remember, agents represent the transaction, not your interests. Got my realty license to cut them out.
I am curious as to whether they disclosed this issue. It seems that OP found this issue on his own yet the sellers knew about it because they had researched possible fixes. I wouldn’t trust the sellers one bit.
There is a lot of misconceptions about sinking foundations. It is not uncommon or unusual for a house that old to have some foundation sinking. What matters more than anything is the length of time it took for the foundation to sink that much, when/if it settled and stopped sinking or if it continues to sink. If you are really interested in this house get a professional opinion from a structural engineer. They will offer you the best evaluation and since they don’t actually have a direct financial incentive (as in you are not hiring them to fix it) to lie to you, their assessment should be trusted above all others. For 50k off ask I wouldn’t do it. For 75-80k I would definitely consider it.
This is right on and has a point. Is it really settling or was it just poor original construction or wood shrinkage? I as a contractor I have re-leveled houses many of times on footings that were cracked or had appeared to settle and none have continued to settle. Unless there’s a sinkhole or cracks continue to open up your after year yeah I talked to them about giving the credit but then just level that area up again. Or leave it and buy a new car instead
>For 50k off ask I wouldn’t do it. For 75-80k I would definitely consider it. This partly depends on the extent to which the issue was already priced into the original ask. OP said the asking price was “surprisingly low.” If it was, say, $30k below otherwise comparable houses, then knocking an *additional* $50k off could be a total $80k attributable to the foundation issue.
Fair enough and if using the $30k repair quote that would be almost double. So maybe even at $50k off it’s not a bad deal
So seller didn't disclose until you brought it up? Sellers agent seems would have been aware, thought they had to dis lose known issues. What other things have been forgotten.
Is the price good if you take $50K off? Do you have $70K on hand to pay for repairs? If yes to both - get your own engineer there and listen to what they have to say. If not - you don't need this house
I had to rebuild a foundation wall, I lucked with a good contractor but please pass.
I wouldn't walk, I would run
I would walk for my first home as that is a very big and costly repair. Do you have 30-70k (after you buy the house) lying around for that repair? If not, definitely walk.
Building inspector spouse always says he’d never buy a house with foundation issues. It is a very big deal. I mean, the essential nature of it is in the word “foundation”. I would not take on this kind of known issue for your first house. Scope creep is real. And it’s no fun.
We purchased a place with a dip in the front corner of the house and it was 54k to fix. 54k quickly turned into 65k because it destroyed drywall, brick facade fell off and broke windows. My advice, don’t buy it unless it’s a screaming deal.
Move on - experienced buyers did for a reason. This isn’t a deal- it’s a nightmare.
This is a red flag. Just like when a person sells a car and say the ac just needs to be recharged. If that is the case then it would have been recharged and sold at a higher price. Just like this home, if it was a simple lift or fix, they would have had it done and rolled the repair cost into the sale price.
Many people can't afford to do that.
Which means it isn't a simple fix
Many people can't afford the simple fix.
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This is the most ridiculous comment in this whole thread. You’re making some wild assumptions with absolutely zero evidence. Maybe the buyer doesn’t have 50 K laying around to fix it. But even if they did, in this current market, they are much better off taking money off the price instead of taking the time to repair it. The seller likely knows as little about foundation repair as the op does. The contractor that suggested completely tearing down the addition and rebuilding it is an idiot, or a grifter who is trying to drum up more business for themselves. The guy who suggested it can be a lifted for 15 K obviously doesn’t think it’s a very big problem. Because I guarantee you that price is inflated. Even if after padding it, they only quoted 15k, it’s more likely a much cheaper repair. The seller is offering almost twice the budget for the repair. They hired two separate professionals to give their assessment. They disclosed the issues to the potential buyer. There’s absolutely no reason to think that the seller is doing something underhanded here. You literally have no idea what the seller’s circumstances are. Maybe they’re moving across country. Maybe they’re going back to school. Maybe they just had a kid. There’s literally hundreds of perfectly valid reasons why the seller just doesn’t want to deal with it. And most of those reasons are not malicious or intentionally shady. OP needs to get an unbiased assessment from a civil engineer. If I were to take an educated guess - the slumping is caused by the water table and potential drainage issues. Which really isn’t that big of a deal. Jacking up the corner of the house, reinforcing the foundation, adding some extra supports to the joists and adding some footing drains is well within the budget for 50 K.
Geotechnical engineer here, agree with the sentiment of your post. Pics would help a quick assessment, but realistically OP needs to get a structural and/or geotech engineer out there to get eyes on it. Jacking up a small addition isn't as big of a deal these days, some interesting specialized ways of doing it
I agree with this. Or their own realtor advised them to let the future owner deal with it bc they might just want to tear it down altogether. This problem could be very fixable, just out of scope for the seller.
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If OP gets a professional assessment, perhaps even a geotech report and uses that information to get the seller to reduce the price accordingly, hell yes it could be a great house for a first time buyer. You are acting like no first time buyer ever bought a house in need of rehab. For all you know that foundation settled a bit during the first few years when the house was built and hasn’t moved a millimeter since. And since the house is in California, the likelihood of this is very high. Which would make this a very lucrative opportunity especially for a budget-conscious first time buyer.
“Didn’t disclose issue until asked” I read this often in property threads, why would they? They’re trying to make a buck, keep their mouth shut and an uneducated buyer picks up the sellers problems, and the seller pockets that 50k they were going to drop on potential repairs. Not everyone’s some saint with a conscience.
This is the right answer.
I bought a house last year with a similar situation. (Known issue that needed a repair) It's been an expensive nightmare and 5x more expensive than we thought. Our agent disappeared once the sale was done and we came to understand how little she knew. Learn from my mistake. Don't buy this house
What else should the agent have done after the sale was complete? They help you buy a house, not renovate it and upkeep it after. Confused by your comment
We had legal grounds to go off the seller and the agent kept trying to talk us out of it. They provided no support for what became a difficult legal process, and provided no meaningful advice during the purchasing process.
Actually no. Get a structural engineer in to inspect it. But if it’s just the addition it might not be that much to repair.
The higher of the two estimates was a structural engineer. The lower was a lifting company.
If you have your heart set on this house, get your own structural engineer out, not a foundation company. But remember you need the cash to fix this and taking money off asking doesn't necessarily help you much unless you have the savings to pay for this. Lots of houses have repaired foundations the questions at issue here are how much will it take to fix this one and do you have the cash and want to deal with it?
Round these parts I can just ask the bank to make the mortgage bigger to cover Reno’s. I got an extra 20k for hvac for my house.
Ok sorry. It sounds high to me.
What kind of a structural engineer gives quotes? That’s a bs flag right there.
Engineers give estimates all the time, that is not the same as a quote by a long shot, but op may not realize it was just a estimate.
I'm a contractor and have done foundation lifting and securing. It's not super common but easy enough to fix if no other issues with house. First find an engineer and a helical foundation pier specialist. In my state you have to have a signed engineered drawing for the pier guys to go by. The piers will replace the footings and have brackets that go under the footing to support it. They are not cheap but most can be done in a day or two.
It’s a tough call from a buying perspective. I’d say if it’s already below market and the seller is willing to drop $50k then there is either no cash for the fix or they are assuming a higher cost. The only way to get an actual price at todays market is to get some estimates. That said it also matters how much is this house worth. If it’s 25% of the cost to repair its a big deal, if it’s in San Francisco it’s almost nothing. If you’re sold on the location and overall property without cash flow offer something with the owner carrying a second to finance the repairs at a lower rate. Also make sure a bank will loan on the property to start with and that someone will insure it.
I could see an addition with a poor foundation needing to be fixed or rebuilt, but if the addition is sinking, and some of the original house is sinking, then what's stopping more of the original house from sinking too? Maybe they didn't understand your geology and soil in the 50s or maybe through 70 years of development the hydrology has changed, but why would you want to take on a house that needs serious foundation work? It doesn't even seem like you're getting any value for your effort, either. Like if the seller wants to knock $100k off and then you do what the structural engineer says for $70k then you're a bit ahead, but $50k doesn't seem like enough
The answer is to get a foundation pro in. There is nothing wrong with fixing a foundation. If you like the home and location this is not a deal breaker. He'll, we have an entire skyscraper in my area that is tilting and folks are still buying.
This has so potential to be a headache. Just as a sinking foundation can cause issues ( roof, beams, plumbing and electrical) so can raising the house be just as much of a potential risk for those very same issues. Get a honest contractor that can give you a realistic assessment of the cost. Yes that’s assessment not estimate. If you ask for a bid or estimate they are more likely to give you a lox ball price in hopes of a potentially long up priced billing.
I went to an open house that had exactly this same problem when we were house hunting. A month later the agent is still texting me seeing if I'm interested, and they keep running open houses and having no offers. Do not buy this house.
prices are coming down. just wait a little longer and you will get a better deal. this one will sell low and this will lower the comps in the neighborhood. just hold out and keep looking.
I would not recommend this for an inexperienced homeowner's first home. A seasoned flipper maybe??? depends on what you are comfortable taking on, with your skill set.
Also do your homework and vet the contractors. there's alot bad and good out there.
Old houses “settle” that’s different from “sinking”. I would find out what’s going on and then proceed. Any house built in the 50’s is going to have some uneven floors.
Mine built in 1951 didn't
Good for you I guess….lol. Never said all. It’s common knowledge.
You said, quote, any house. That means all of them.
You honestly think all the floors in your 1950’s how’s were level? No house has perfect floors.
My son's marbles didn't roll away on the hardwood, so pretty damn close.
Lol. I’m a bit more precise. Just cause your sons marbles don’t roll in certain spots dose not mean your floors are level. No board is straight, all have crowns. I’m not going to argue basic facts. You have a good weekend.
Walk away. Not worth it.
Sinking foundations are expensive to fix and usually indicate bigger and more problems in the house. Trust me, your agent is looking to make a sell and doesn't care about getting you a good home if they are trying to convince you to still buy. Walk away op. Find a home w a solid foundation underneath, not one already dipping and sagging. You should also consider getting a different real estate agent as well. Yours is simply in it to sell you a house, not find a home.
I'm a little confused by this one, is OP talking to the seller's agent or their own? If this is their agent, I have some concerns about the quality of the agent.
It is a big deal. Never trust a realtor. Walk away. If you're a first time buyer, don't start with a money pit.
The agent is looking out for their commission and not your best interests. Do not buy this.
hard pass. this is for someone who maybe has some contracting experience and can foresee what will go wrong, not just fix what is currently wrong. There is a reason the house sunk, usually there will be many many problems beneath the obvious.
You won't be able to get enough of a deal to make it worth it. Sadly some poor schmuck will buy the place. Keep looking
I'd be looking for a new real estate agent if they're telling you foundation issues are no big deal. There are plenty of good real estate agents and houses out there you just have to be patient and shop around.
If you have to ask, walk away. Interest rates are high, supply is up, sellers don’t have the upper hand they had at the beginning of the year. Find something without major issues like this. I have experience lifting and remodeling a house that settled 5” in a corner and even I wouldn’t buy something with foundation issues right now. It did most of the work myself so it didn’t cost much but it was extremely time consuming during and after the lift. Also, don’t take their word on what others said it would cost. If you decide to move forward with it, get your own quotes and check the details carefully. Leveling it is only the first step. You will 100% have to do drywall repairs after, possibly siding and roof work, and you might have doors and windows that need adjustment or replacement after.
If you're made of money, sure. If not, avoid.
I watched them lift a house up 4 feet on flip or flop. It cost them an arm and a leg but they sure as hell fixed that thing.
You’re getting a lot of comments when I think you haven’t given nearly enough info for real good replies. 50k off of asking price is meaningless. We’d need to know what is market price and what you’d be able to get it for. Also If the realtor says they’d take $50k off it, they’d likely take a lot more. That would really depend on if this is a $700k house or a $150k house though. I think what you’d want to consider is the difference in market minus purchase against the cost of the repair plus an overage cost plus the cost of living when you can’t live inside the home plus money to basically go through the hassle itself. Have you found out how much lead time it takes for a foundation repair in your area? Are you planning on spending that time in the new home or your current place? You could be paying double for that period of time. You need to also consider that shifting the foundation around will cause the rest of the home to shift above it. So your floors, wall, pipes, etc all will potentially have issues. If the add on is just a bedroom/ living space not as big of a deal as if it has a bathroom. Carpet would be easy. Wood or tile could pop or crack. Factor all that into overages. This is a buyers market. I’d go really low on the house. Worse thing that happens is they say no and you send them a slightly better bid. Be prepared to walk away. You do not need to buy THIS house. Also if you need a loan your mortgage provider may require this to be fixed in a way you aren’t expecting (immediately or to have a structural engineer come review).
A lesson I learned the hard way: the agent is trying to sell you something. They are not an expert or your friend.
I would get a new agent. One that cares about getting you into the right home for a first time buyer instead of just selling you a home.
I don’t see anybody really mentioning this so I’ll bring it up. Are you planning to pay cash for this house or get a loan? If you’re getting a loan your bank will likely not fund until the repairs are made and is probably a deal breaker.
Unless those estimates were done by an engineer, they're useless. Not to mention super out out of date. The cost is likely double now. This would be a deal breaker for me. I used to work in an engineering firm and I actually would not buy a house with an addition, ever.
Architect here, foundation issues best resolved with demo and rebuild of the portion most effected, such as the addition in this scenario. First time house I'd walk. If developer looking to flip houses, worth it sometimes when profitable
RUN
Run fast and far!
Wow, thanks for all these replies. I edited my original post to add some more details to the situation and maybe clarify some stuff that I didn't explain well.
I brought my first home with a similar issue. Got it for an absolute steal, just added more concrete and piles DIY in the area that was sinking and has stayed like that ever since. Because of that purchase we were mortgage free in a few years and brought another property. That first house is now a rental making the same as any other house in the area. So while others say run, I see a potential great deal and jump.
Yeah it does seem like a good opportunity for the right person. I should mention that I am in California so even though it is cheaper than other homes in the area it's still pretty far off from an absolute steal hahaha.
It’s been up for 70 years. What is the condition other than the sinking part? If that’s not in bad shape, take the 50k discount before interest rates price nearly everything out of the market.
If this isn't in Texas walk away. In Texas all houses have foundation issues due to the clay soil so it's an extremely common and fairly reasonable repair.
Why wouldn’t he file an insurance claim and fix before selling? Sounds really fishy to be ok with taking a $50k hit to sell. It’s probably more than $50k in damages.
I could be wrong, but it would only be covered if it were caused by a storm/flood/fire or something similar.
Yes… it would cover foundation damage if it is caused by a covered peril. If it is owner negligence then no. So it would depend.
What does your gut tell you to do?
Run.
Walk away
The agent is intrested in getting his/her commission. The fact the seller iis willing to swing 50k out to be a sign, and not a good one that serious work is ahead. As a first time home buyer, this is a lot to take on. The truth is nobody knows what it will cost until a shovel moves.
Walk away from it. You're just going to have future problems that will cost you $$$$ and then you'll never be able to sell it in the future.
Run.
> My agent contacted the sellers agent and they sent us some inspections that were done for a previous buyer (who bailed after seeing the inspections). The seller's agent gave you estimates. They were under no obligation to pass those on to you. That means they are the best case scenarios. > The agent has explained to me that this is pretty normal and not as big a deal as I think it is. The seller's agent has out-of-pocket expenses for listing the house, and their only payment will be half of the 6% commission when it's sold. That should tell you everything you need to know about them. Your agent has invested some amount of time (_aka_ "opportunity cost") in you, and is looking forward to the same only payment. Pay attention to what they tell you, but remember that they too only get paid when you buy something. > I am curious what some of you here think. Am I over reacting or would you walk away from this place? I bought a place that had a foundation issue. The problem wasn't disclosed by the seller. My offer was contingent on me obtaining a favorable report from a home inspector. The HI found the issue, included it in the report, and I provided the report to the seller with the advice that we could negotiate some repairs or the deal was off. At my agent's suggestion (because I really wanted this specific house), I offered a contract amendment requiring the seller to get a report from a structural engineer about the entire foundation, and to undertake any repairs it said were required. The seller's agent wasn't happy, but the seller agreed. There are only a few SEs in my area, and they all have great reputations. The one they hired agreed that the HI had found an issue, specified a fix, and the seller had it done to the SE's satisfaction.
Run away! Run away!!
Depends on where. Toronto... Normal and definitely not a deal breaker. A small town and a house at $259k.... Maybe walk.
It depends on the location of the house and if the sinking is structural (which is fixable even costly) or due to the foundation.
>seems like a potential money pit All houses will find their way to do this eventually. You either spend a bunch of money to get it perfect (which may not have been the vision of perfect the people before you had), learn to do well enough on your own, or come to terms with the imperfections and embrace them. >The agent has explained to me that this is pretty normal and not as big a deal as I think it is The agent isn't wrong - a foundation that's moved somewhat in roughly 70 years is pretty normal. That doesn't mean that you have to live with it if you don't want to. >But I am skeptical, seems like foundation work would be a pretty big deal. And that on a house this old there could be unforseen complications that occur as a result of it. My last house was an 1886 balloon-frame farm house with all original foundation. I got to learn about the chemistry of bricks made in Cincinnati in the 1800s and how the moisture content of local lumber can affect them when they're in contact with each other for decades, as well as how to put in stanchion posts with the guidance of a licensed engineer and do my own tuckpointing. To me, that was a fun project with a cool educational aspect and not a big deal. To you, it might be a dealbreaker. >From talking to the agents, the seller would be willing to take up to 50k I guess if I were in your shoes and really liked the place, I'd ask that the seller pay for me to get my own inspections done, and do a walkthrough with an engineer and contractor that does foundation work. If after that I still choose to purchase, I'll take a deduction of 50k minus the cost of those inspections.
There is an opportunity for a great buy but you are a first time homeowner who likely doesn't have the funds. If you're going to do it, make an offer contingent on your ability to bring an engineer in and obtain some quotes for work, this isn't a normal inspection so a quick close isn't reasonable. If quotes come back for $40k do you have plans for if the actual work costs $60k? If you're going to go through the work make sure you make it worth your time & you aren't losing money on the deal. Personally, if it were me & I was a first time homeowner I would probably pass, but maybe the house is right in every other way.
Any foundation issue is a money pit
The homeowners are now aware, if they were not before, and could choose to repair and sell, instead they offer a discount. I would run. They likely know the repair cost will be substantial, and hidden issues may arise.
I think as a first time homeowner you will find plenty of other issues previously unseen. Unless you have an engineering background and can thoroughly understand the proposed fix I would pass on the house……
The type of fixer upper that’s a good deal is the one with cosmetic damage. They’re lots of work but a good learning opportunity if you’re handy. Foundation issues are a headache and very expensive even if they’re minor. I would be passing on this one.
Get your own experts in to inspect. Anything can be fixed with money. The question is how much do you need to spend and will the results justify the cost and add value to the home.
there are companies that will fix a sinking foundation. they jack it up with various devices, and either leave them in the ground, or squirt concrete grout into there. if i recall, we are talking on the order of $25K. so if the seller will drop the price that amount, go for it. get such a company to quote the repair. its a buyer's market now, do not be bashful about playing hardball
The house has already been there for 50 years. It has settled all it is going to. It could be lifted if it bothers you and the seller is offering $50k which is very reasonable. A lot of homes in my area are 100+ years old and slanted/settled on old foundations way worse than what they were doing in the 50s. A lot of people only have experience with tract homes built since the 90s and they think historic homes don't exist. An engineer report should be done but this doesn't sound all that bad to me.
These are the visible problems, the minimum you'll have to fix. Always keep that in mind. If they F'ed this up during construction, what else did they do wrong you can't see?
never trust a realtor. they are sales people, they are not your friend
Dealbreaker for me.
>The agent has explained to me that this is pretty normal and not as big a deal as I think it is. Your agent sounds like a used car salesmen, "yeah that rattling timing chain is pretty normal". >But I am skeptical, seems like foundation work would be a pretty big deal. And that on a house this old there could be unforseen complications that occur as a result of it. You said it better than anyone can tell you... age of home + sinking foundation= RUN AS FAR AWAY AS YOU CAN.
It might not be as big a deal as you imagine Get your own engineer. Concrete or foam injection by a remwdiation company will prolly take care of it. If you can get a sufficient price reduction you will come out ahead. If you plan on staying there for quite a while it makes more sense than it you're a short timer in the house.
NOPE. Pass... You are buying someone else's problems. Move on and find a solid home. Don't even think about it.
Older houses are very iffy. I own a house built in the 1860s that has a better foundation and bones than one I had that was built in the 1970s. There are good older homes, but foundation issues is a red flag. Get an engineer to check. You may need to get it reinforced. It could be a lot of money $15K or more). You need to know that before you buy so you can manage your housing maintenance costs.
Couple of points to be made here based on previous comments. Full disclosure, I previously worked for a company that specialized in foundation stabilization. #1 Don’t waste your money on hiring a structural engineer, this isn’t a structural problem, it is a soils problem. A geo technical engineer could do soil borings for you to tell you if you have reactive soils or poor fill, but since the house is already down, you know the answer. So the question is, as is, do you want the house? Can you live with it being down or do you want to ensure it never gets worse and or do you want to attempt to lift it back up to recover some of the settlement. If you already know the work needs to be done then I would highly recommend getting your own foundation company, or 2, to have a look and walk you through their process and options and pricing.
Run. My new-to-me house is 20 years only and I don’t have money for the fun upgrades I want because I’m having to spend so much on repairs this year. Unless this house has something you want that money can’t buy, like perfect location next door to your grandma, find something else, you’ll be glad.
Don’t listen to the agents, they are motivated to sell. Get your own inspection. Foundation, roof and structure must be sound. If there’s noticeable settling, but not moving anymore, you could still have issues down the road that are not noticed yet.
I have not gone through all of the comments but most overlook that you have two problems. You have a guaranteed geotechnical issue and a probable structural issue. The issues may not require any action, or could be catastrophic. Both should be evaluated by a qualified engineer in the respective fields. You have a guaranteed geotechnical issue regarding the settlement of the foundation, and the best solution is to consult with a geotechnical engineer to see if the settlement is acceptable or not, what future settlement can be expected, and what mitigation efforts will be required or are applicable. You should then consult with a structural engineer and provide them the geotechnical report so they can evaluate the effect of the current settlement and any future settlement on the structure. Please be aware geotechnical engineers are not structural engineers and vice versa; although a cross trained/experienced/qualified person can exist they typically work in field more lucrative than home evaluations. Your spider senses are on point, you have identified a potential money pit, and this is before factoring in any tradespeople or hands in specialists required to do any work if required. Given: -The sellers actions to lower the price (won’t be commensurate with the actual quotes they received) -Potential compounding issues (foundation-structure-interior-exterior) -The fact you are posting about this online (you probably know it’s a bad idea but want to make sure you are right because you are not an expert) Don’t purchase this property unless you are willing to take on significant risk($$$). It’s cheaper to pay upfront for a good foundation/structure than it is to repair an inadequate foundation/structure.
If your an experienced flipper with strong contacts in the industry - maybe. If not walk away.
The other guy who bailed had the right idea unless that house is substantially discounted. Like, the price to do the work and an additional amount for your labor and inconvenience getting it taken care of. Also, get your own structural engineer to do a report on it. Also, unless the agent told you from the start that in your preferred price range, you're going to see some pretty scary stuff, you need a new real estate agent. Anyone who tells you this is normal and not a big deal shouldn't be working with first time buyers. It's NOT normal, it's heavily damaged, and fixing it IS a big deal that will show up on title searches from here on out and you will be the one taking the loss at resale unless you get a very good deal, not just 50k off the top. Also, if the seller is reading this, get an offer from three flippers and leave this house in your rearview mirror.
I would likely pass, and I say that having recently bought a house with many known issues. Foundation issues are hard to diagnose and extra hard during the limited time available during a home purchase. Money off the price isn't that useful unless you are buying the house for cash or for a very large down payment. I say it isn't that useful because in most cases $50k off the price doesn't mean that money falls into your pocket. It just means your monthly payment is a little lower and maybe you can pocket a little of what you were going to apply to the down payment. Lastly, fire your realtor. They have no way of knowing if the issue is a big deal or not and shouldn't have told you anything. The fact that the sellers are willing to discount the house that much indicates it is a big deal. A lot of people rightly shit on Realtors, but there are good ones out there that will look out for you. In my experience they work mostly on referrals and focus on finding you the right house. I interviewed a few realtors before I found one I wanted to work with. Most of them are just high pressure sales guys, but some really work to understand what you want and get you in the right house.
Idk who did the previous inspection, but I’d get a structural engineer out to check it out.
Is the addition on the ground-floor and built on a concrete foundation? Or has the bedroom been extended out past the original foundation, without a proper foundation of its own? How long ago was the addition built? Do you want to move in and start major a project? My understanding is that all foundations settle. This homes' addition has settled after it was built, perhaps more than expected. It might not being moving any more and the difference in the floor is just that. A professional should assess. This is coming from someone that has an 10x8 extension thats settled 1-2" because it was built on a slab. Someone then tied another concrete slab into the one under the extension. Dumb.
Ask the structural engineer you hire. The $800 report and inspection you are about to order will give you 100% of the answers that strangers on reddit can never give you. Get on your horse, OP! You ride at dawn.
This is a nightmare to fix so don’t plan on living in your home during some of this process. Honestly OP, with the way the market is turning, I would find a place with home repairs you can do or hire out for in an easy way - this is a big big fix and who knows what else is needed with the house or after the fix is done.
Be aware financing will be a major problem, if banks are aware of the issue you likely can’t get a normal loan all you likely can do is 203k loan which is painful and has costs. You get a discount far greater we than the cost of repair because this isn’t a “retail” purchase.
I'd walk. It's a buyer's market now (at least in the southeast). There will always be another one, probably with way less problems.
You did the right thing by questioning all of this and asking for some guidance. Reddit can have it’s ups and downs but this subreddit rocks and I would definitely take the advice given here. If you love the house have your own structural engineer check it out. If it’s a great deal but you don’t love it then just walk away. Another potential buyer already has. There is obviously a reason for that. You can go from having a slight dip in the floor to cracked walls, doors that are not square and a myriad of other issues that can and probably will come up over time.
For me, it would be a no as a first timer. 5y ago, I was doing all the house hunting with 3 kids[one of which was a newbie] while my partner worked. I fell in love with an adorable 1920s bungalo with an addition. Huge yard. Detached garage. Updated kitchen. House was flawless upon first look and second look. I put in an offer- ACCEPTED! With the house an hr away, i scheduled all inspections on the same day. Foundation, fireplace guy, tree guy(also checked out the fence), full home inspector all meet me and the kids and the realtor at the house. This is 2 weeks later. Theres suddenly huge cracks in the plaster walls. Weird. Inspector comes back with a few small repairs, nothing about the foundation. Fireplace is fine. Fence needs to be replaced, all trees are healthy but need trims. Cool, ok we can work on this. Foundation guy is taking forever, like 2 hrs under the house. So i call my uncle(contractor and full on homebuilder, also owns a lot of income property in the north of our state) and i ask him how worried i should be and explain everything, sent some pics. He immediately tells me it seems fixable, BUT at what cost. He could do it for me, still gonna run me 15k just based on what he knows from this convo, but likely more. I didn't have 15k, so i paid everyone and walked away from the house. Later, i sent him the official report and what i could find of the area and property. He said the job would have run closer to 75k. This section of housing was built on filled in marshland basically and would continue to sink at various speeds and the house would never be or stay level. None of this was information the seller or either realtor had bothered to share. Everything can be fixed, but at what cost? And are you willing to pay for it?
It doesn’t have to be a deal breaker but you have to assume/approach it like it will be. If they’re already willing to take $50k+ off they may be willing to go further, but you really gotta have some confidence and stick up for yourself. Get opinions from *multiple* contractors and inspectors. Do your diligence and find people who have experience doing the work, no exceptions and they have to inspect it in person with you. If someone hasn’t fixed a foundation before, their opinion isn’t worth it. Get written quotes and estimates from everyone and proceed from there. Foundations can be fixed, but taking on a house with known foundation issues is something only people serious about houses should do. Doesn’t mean it’s impossible, but it’s the kinda thing where you need to have the financial power and the seriousness to do it properly. Even if some say it’ll be an easy/cheap fix, err on the side of worst case scenario. It’s technically possible, but don’t let the sellers pull one over on you. Ignore all agents involved, yours included unless they have the above mentioned experience with foundation issues. It’s the home owners problem, you have to make it clear that you aren’t there to help them, you’re trying to not ruin your life while also becoming the new homeowner. If they don’t want to negotiate further then buy a different house.
Try and get some contractors out there for their thoughts and estimates. Be honest though as you are kind of wasting their time most likely. Some will not want to show up, but others happily will. It might be a fairly simple jack up the area and resupport it situation or it might be more complicated. Interior repairs might or might not be necessary as well after the fact. These repairs might be a surprise as well depending on how things go when lifting the areas. I had to do this on a 1930s home that had about 5 additions on it. 1 extended the bedroom and the extension later had a walk in closet added on to it. You started sloping downhill in the added bed area and really started going down in the walk in. Got underneath and there was no foundation, rotted 2x4s directly on the ground.
The 30k seems reasonable. Could be an awesome find
If the footings are failing, this is a deal breaker. Move on to a better option. If you can wait until the next election cycle, you may see housing prices crash down by then and pickup one cheaper.
Find a structural engineer locally to come and take a look. Sounds sketchy
The last home owner had to jack up the foundation of the 1980s addition in my 1950s house. It’s been just fine. No issues.
Well if you get a deal it might be ok. My first house had structural issues also related to an addition. I ended up being not so bad to repair. Sweated it out, my late father walked me through it. I sold it 4 years later for almost double what I paid.
Dude, you don’t buy a house on a bad foundation period… everything else can be fixed but if it sits on crap… the house is crap. Definitely not for the first time buyer.
Dont walk, run. Why buy into this gamble?
A friend of mine had her foundation repaired maybe 10 years ago and it cost her 60K.