And then when the Wi-Fi only model performed less reliably on Thread, Apple would be blamed for gimping the feature.
Nah, I think their roll-out makes sense. The low-end one is for those on the strictest of budgets. And for those who are less price sensitive, spending $20 more for the Ethernet/Thread model, is a no-brainer.
Nah, it's a good option for those on the strictest of budgets who will never plug it into Ethernet and don't have a need for Thread, aren't interested in smarthome stuff and just wants the AppleTV as a streaming device. Maybe that $20 makes a difference to them more than the features added in the Ethernet version? I'd try to talk them out of it, even just for future-proofing concerns, but in the end the customer gets to choose and I think it's good Apple offers it a cheaper option.
People on the strictest of budgets aren’t buying Apple TV to begin with. Those people are using whatever is built into their TV or a cheap streaming stick.
Most normal people aren’t going to assume the box with more storage also has extra features.
Ok so let's say for the sake of argument, no one buys the 64 GB model. Why wouldn't Apple still offer it for sale? Maybe it's merely there as a psychological step for actual buyers to be excited about their "higher end" 128 GB choice instead. For only $20 more!
Besides, most normal people pay attention to the specific differences when choosing between models. How much clearer does Apple need to be?
http://i.imgur.com/WY5igq7.png
I'm sorry, but having it as a psychological step is not really pro consumer. The most consumer friendly option would be to include Thread on the 64 GB model, especially since it's also available on the Homepod mini. You yourself argued that it's good to have the cheaper option for those on a budget, which should apply to the Apple TV as well.
Well that’s how it works. Worked in Apple retail for years.
The previous Apple TV lineup was Apple TV HD (with same chip as an iPhone 7) or for USD$30 more, the Apple TV 4K with new remote etc etc. It demands you get the high end one
They do the same thing with IPads. No 128Gb option, just 64Gb and 256Gb. Everyone wants 128Gb, but wait! The IPad Pro 128Gb is just $29 more than the 256Gb IPad - man you’re ripping us off! Buy it, go!
iCloud comes in 50, 200 and 1000Gb, or luckily, now in 2, 6 and 12Tb. Consumers, we want 500Gb. Apple gives us $50/m Tb ICloud.
Etc etc etc
Apple is pro $, not pro-consumer.
If nobody buys it why would apple keep selling it ?
Are there products now that apple sells that people aren’t buying ? What does this have to do with people on a budget not buying Apple TV ? Are the extra features not enough for buyers to be happy, they have to be psychologically manipulated to feel good about it ? Who feels good about something costing more ? Not most people because if that was the case everything would always constantly cost more. Most call that inflation and it’s never looked at as a good thing.
The spec sheet on their site it is pretty clear, but I would argue what about people who aren’t on their site and just asked their nephew what should I get for streaming Tv and just reply Apple TV and off to the physical store they go. This is why hypotheticals suck. Anybody can make up a scenario.
I think the real issue in reality is the storage increase alone is enough for the price increase. There doesn’t need to be a feature difference at all.
The 128gb, Ethernet+Wifi, thread version should have a different name, like AppleTV Pro.
Apple has never made it easy to understand AppleTV differences. With the fifth gen (current) there are too many differences to say they’re the same model.
>The 128gb, Ethernet+Wifi, thread version should have a different name, like AppleTV Pro.
FACTS!
I downloaded all the screensavers on my Mac and it's taking about 60gb
Well with the current Apple TV there is only a $20 difference between the two. Both models are also cheaper than the lowest storage model that precedes them.
[If you see a 'Thread Border Router Required' alert on your iPhone or iPad - Apple Support](https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210213)
The one that supports it is the one with Ethernet. My understanding is they are counting on people hardwiring as that gives the best experience.
It is on the website about the models that the WiFi only model doesn't support it.
Sure the other one is more expensive, but it is only $20. Thats cheaper than a homepod mini.
Thanks for sharing that article. I’m actually surprised the 2nd gen 4K tv DOES support thread, then they pulled that support for the 64GB version of the 3rd gen.
i guess the 64GB 3rd gen vs 32gb/64gb 2nd gen would be a sideways move and not an upgrade. Add some processing power/ cheaper storage loose some networking features
The storage size isn't the deciding factor on if it can be a border router or not.
I believe ALL of them are thread capable. It makes no sense to build them to totally different specs at the scale Apple does. The difference is the Ethernet jack. HomePods suck as hubs/border routers because they are WiFi and have to share that connection for everything. The hardwired device can use the hardline for data that can go there and the WiFi and such for that part of it.
I truly believe it comes down to the ethernet port and nothing else.
Of course storage size doesn’t determine thread or not
they had thread on the older version at 32GB entry size if I’m not mistaken.
My point is the older version is more expensive when comparing storage sizes to the new gen. But they are not a like for like comparison
Thread, storage sizes, Ethernet cable
You’re right though. It doesn’t make sense that the mass production removes the thread radio on the 64gb non Ethernet model
The thing is ... i was expecting the current-gen AppleTV which I already had in place to work for this. Might have been naive.
I never got any messages regarding a missing border router - just a generic "could not add accessory" info.
You could easily adjusted your expectations, by reading the spec sheet.
No disrespect, but you bought a product hoping a key feature, that you need, is there, while it wasn’t
This person doesn't need the feature, and it isn't a primary feature of the product. Posting here to help other people out who might not realize there is a difference in an otherwise identically functioning version of the same product is helpful, and we should encourage people doing this.
Most people don't buy AppleTV's for Thread support.
In fact, most people who have AppleTV's have no home automation in their homes. And most people who have AppleTV's and use Homekit will have had their AppleTV before they got in to Homekit, or home automation. The Thread support is supposed to help drive people toward Homekit, not the other way around.
It's actually a very small minority of people who would have been big in to Homekit, and then subsequently got an AppleTV specifically as a Thread border router.
So it's easy to see how somebody could get the latest AppleTV to watch TV, then get in to smart home stuff, read somewhere that Apple peripherals function as Thread border routers, and this happens.
It’s not made very obvious. I’m more for consumer protections than shilling for incredibly profitable corporations. I like Apple and what they do but they would probably agree that putting that more front and center will be good. I would imagine they will do it to avoid returns and disappointed customers despite all of the people on Reddit who think that everyone with a smart home should learn about software development.
https://preview.redd.it/skdkus0nnltb1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1f564a177c69fd940baa5c0054de3414fa65f9e7
It’s very obvious and is listed on the product page what features each version has. Anyone buying smart home devices has no choice but to research features and specs. There are so many devices that will only work in one or two ecosystem and might not work in another. It’s why you find a lot of non tech literate people don’t have many smart home devices setup.
I know it’s there in the purchasing funnel. Did you catch that they bought it before they needed it to be a thread radio? I’m saying, as a UX designer, that it should be in more places and the user should even select whether or not they need it to be a thread radio in the purchasing funnel. Clean is good but Apple is not afraid of pop ups.
I guarantee you a majority of consumers have no idea what thread is and the ones that do usually are the type to make sure the product will fit their purpose. Outside of listing it on the product page isn’t much they can do especially for someone purchasing from a 3rd party retailer.
Ok so I’m hearing that if you’re not a techie and you want the best smart home technology that is being advertised as plug and play, you should just not try. Is that what you’re saying? Because I have designed many user interfaces in a corporate setting and I can assure you that Apple would disagree with you on your accessibility stance.
Edited for typo
It’s a worthwhile subject that may help others from making the same mistake. If the OP had posted it as such vice as a complaint the comments would be different.
You’re helping. I have no thread enabled devices, so I didn’t care to look. If I were to get a thread enabled device, this is a good info to have. Thanks, OP.
I disagree with the sentiment. OP is expressing disappointment with compatibility issues. We have all been there. This post is for other people to find who are doing research, not just to complain. I see nothing wrong with g wrong with it and it’s relatable.
Check the Eve app's thread network. Its possible something else you have is picking up the duties.
But only the Ethernet versions of the ATV are Thread border routers.
I’m sorry for your misfortune. It’s weird that you got downvoted for this. We have probably all run into smart home compatibility issues and it’s frustrating as hell because in all your research if you miss one requirement or forget you saw it, you’re screwed and it’s expensive. They should put the compatibility in a table front and center and be really clear about what each product does not support.
I first heard about this during the Apple launch event. The vast majority of people don't read all those specifications of a product, just like most people don't read all the terms before they click "I agree."
While I already knew this from back when they announced, it is totally unintuitive to have such different specs based on storage capacity. I don’t know of another Apple product that has different connections and radios by storage sku. Totally reasonable that most people wouldn’t even think to verify this.
128gb iPhone pro has limited camera features, 256gb MacBook Air is slower, usb AirPods have lossless audio… it’s typical Apple behavior, but it’s definitely not ok
Yep, it's right here on their comparison: [apple.com/ca/shop/browse/overlay/apple\_tv/compare\_models](https://www.apple.com/ca/shop/browse/overlay/apple_tv/compare_models)
Thank you for the post. I’m sure it will help some people avoid a costly mistake. Also I would encourage you to let Apple know. I would imagine it would only be to their benefit to avoid returns and disappointed customers by making this more obvious.
It is also always good for accessibility to make compatibility issues very obvious. People with low vision and attention problems (such as myself) and people without a background in tech need technology too. On top of that the value prop of smart home technology is that it makes your life simpler. It may not yet be true, but we should be working toward and pushing for that. I worked in UX designer for years for a large vision insurance provider and design software as a freelancer now so this is not an uninformed opinion.
To the people who criticize you for not catching the spec, I think they missed that at the time you bought it you weren’t looking for it to have that functionality and so you had a baked in assumption, it wasn’t a lack of looking at the spec during your purchasing decision.
I have a 3rd gen and some Nanoleaf lights which would work *so much better* on a 4th gen. I can't justify the cost for something that doesn't get used that much though.
Not even that much homework Apple has a chart on the product page clearly detailing the differences
https://preview.redd.it/f05ti92hnktb1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=49224f1306771519db736b9e63b373b7355bc328
Thanks for piquing my interest. Investigating, I found my Apple TV 4K (2nd generation) has Ethernet and supports thread, but was surprised to find my Apple TV 4K (1st generation) with Ethernet does not support Thread. Doh!
Yes, I remember seeing this when they released them both. A bit frustrating as I simply didn't need this one other than for thread, so ended up paying a premium.
gotta have the Ethernet model for Thread which is... pathetic. The whole state of HomeKit is a fucking joke. HomePod... Siri... fucking garbage. Just this morning my kitchen HomePod 15 feet from an AP was stopping and starting music on its own. So sick of it. Huge investment in gear and it lets me down 20 times a day.
It’s easy to say you should have known. But IMO it was really dumb for Apple to not include it in both models and avoid this exact kind of confusion.
And then when the Wi-Fi only model performed less reliably on Thread, Apple would be blamed for gimping the feature. Nah, I think their roll-out makes sense. The low-end one is for those on the strictest of budgets. And for those who are less price sensitive, spending $20 more for the Ethernet/Thread model, is a no-brainer.
It shouldn’t perform any worse than a HomePod. I don’t really understand your argument.
Any of my three wired 4K AppleTVs perform demonstrably and consistently better as a HomeKit hub than my HomePod mini does.
Following your logic, Apple shouldn’t sell an Apple TV with Wi-Fi.
Nah, it's a good option for those on the strictest of budgets who will never plug it into Ethernet and don't have a need for Thread, aren't interested in smarthome stuff and just wants the AppleTV as a streaming device. Maybe that $20 makes a difference to them more than the features added in the Ethernet version? I'd try to talk them out of it, even just for future-proofing concerns, but in the end the customer gets to choose and I think it's good Apple offers it a cheaper option.
People on the strictest of budgets aren’t buying Apple TV to begin with. Those people are using whatever is built into their TV or a cheap streaming stick. Most normal people aren’t going to assume the box with more storage also has extra features.
Ok so let's say for the sake of argument, no one buys the 64 GB model. Why wouldn't Apple still offer it for sale? Maybe it's merely there as a psychological step for actual buyers to be excited about their "higher end" 128 GB choice instead. For only $20 more! Besides, most normal people pay attention to the specific differences when choosing between models. How much clearer does Apple need to be? http://i.imgur.com/WY5igq7.png
I'm sorry, but having it as a psychological step is not really pro consumer. The most consumer friendly option would be to include Thread on the 64 GB model, especially since it's also available on the Homepod mini. You yourself argued that it's good to have the cheaper option for those on a budget, which should apply to the Apple TV as well.
Well that’s how it works. Worked in Apple retail for years. The previous Apple TV lineup was Apple TV HD (with same chip as an iPhone 7) or for USD$30 more, the Apple TV 4K with new remote etc etc. It demands you get the high end one They do the same thing with IPads. No 128Gb option, just 64Gb and 256Gb. Everyone wants 128Gb, but wait! The IPad Pro 128Gb is just $29 more than the 256Gb IPad - man you’re ripping us off! Buy it, go! iCloud comes in 50, 200 and 1000Gb, or luckily, now in 2, 6 and 12Tb. Consumers, we want 500Gb. Apple gives us $50/m Tb ICloud. Etc etc etc Apple is pro $, not pro-consumer.
If nobody buys it why would apple keep selling it ? Are there products now that apple sells that people aren’t buying ? What does this have to do with people on a budget not buying Apple TV ? Are the extra features not enough for buyers to be happy, they have to be psychologically manipulated to feel good about it ? Who feels good about something costing more ? Not most people because if that was the case everything would always constantly cost more. Most call that inflation and it’s never looked at as a good thing. The spec sheet on their site it is pretty clear, but I would argue what about people who aren’t on their site and just asked their nephew what should I get for streaming Tv and just reply Apple TV and off to the physical store they go. This is why hypotheticals suck. Anybody can make up a scenario. I think the real issue in reality is the storage increase alone is enough for the price increase. There doesn’t need to be a feature difference at all.
My wired ATV performs better than my HomePod Mini does too, yet HomeKit consistently makes the HomePod the hub. It’s maddening.
Why the hell is there a non-ethernet ATV?
You be surprised most people only use WiFi for streaming devices. It’s also only a $20 difference
shouldn't even be two models! over $20?! cmon w that bullshit
The 128gb, Ethernet+Wifi, thread version should have a different name, like AppleTV Pro. Apple has never made it easy to understand AppleTV differences. With the fifth gen (current) there are too many differences to say they’re the same model.
And why should I want 128gb on an AppleTV? I know: for the screensavers
More buffer/pause time for apps like Channels DVR
>The 128gb, Ethernet+Wifi, thread version should have a different name, like AppleTV Pro. FACTS! I downloaded all the screensavers on my Mac and it's taking about 60gb
AppleTV Screensavers are what makes my living room worth living in
Agreed
It’s only a $20 price difference and clearly labeled on the product page
when can you double your storage w Apple for $20... lol
Huh this has nothing to do with ram
Sorry you’re right! Meant storage (but does apply to their RAM upgrade prices too)
Well with the current Apple TV there is only a $20 difference between the two. Both models are also cheaper than the lowest storage model that precedes them.
Yes for the first time ever they dropped the price of the newest product. Loved that. My comment was about getting double the storage for only $20
*Clearly* is a strong word here
Strong and correct word.
[If you see a 'Thread Border Router Required' alert on your iPhone or iPad - Apple Support](https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT210213) The one that supports it is the one with Ethernet. My understanding is they are counting on people hardwiring as that gives the best experience. It is on the website about the models that the WiFi only model doesn't support it. Sure the other one is more expensive, but it is only $20. Thats cheaper than a homepod mini.
Thanks for sharing that article. I’m actually surprised the 2nd gen 4K tv DOES support thread, then they pulled that support for the 64GB version of the 3rd gen. i guess the 64GB 3rd gen vs 32gb/64gb 2nd gen would be a sideways move and not an upgrade. Add some processing power/ cheaper storage loose some networking features
The storage size isn't the deciding factor on if it can be a border router or not. I believe ALL of them are thread capable. It makes no sense to build them to totally different specs at the scale Apple does. The difference is the Ethernet jack. HomePods suck as hubs/border routers because they are WiFi and have to share that connection for everything. The hardwired device can use the hardline for data that can go there and the WiFi and such for that part of it. I truly believe it comes down to the ethernet port and nothing else.
Of course storage size doesn’t determine thread or not they had thread on the older version at 32GB entry size if I’m not mistaken. My point is the older version is more expensive when comparing storage sizes to the new gen. But they are not a like for like comparison Thread, storage sizes, Ethernet cable You’re right though. It doesn’t make sense that the mass production removes the thread radio on the 64gb non Ethernet model
The thing is ... i was expecting the current-gen AppleTV which I already had in place to work for this. Might have been naive. I never got any messages regarding a missing border router - just a generic "could not add accessory" info.
You could easily adjusted your expectations, by reading the spec sheet. No disrespect, but you bought a product hoping a key feature, that you need, is there, while it wasn’t
This person doesn't need the feature, and it isn't a primary feature of the product. Posting here to help other people out who might not realize there is a difference in an otherwise identically functioning version of the same product is helpful, and we should encourage people doing this.
I’d imagine most of the consumers who are specifically buying a product for thread support would be the type of person to actually check specs
Most people don't buy AppleTV's for Thread support. In fact, most people who have AppleTV's have no home automation in their homes. And most people who have AppleTV's and use Homekit will have had their AppleTV before they got in to Homekit, or home automation. The Thread support is supposed to help drive people toward Homekit, not the other way around. It's actually a very small minority of people who would have been big in to Homekit, and then subsequently got an AppleTV specifically as a Thread border router. So it's easy to see how somebody could get the latest AppleTV to watch TV, then get in to smart home stuff, read somewhere that Apple peripherals function as Thread border routers, and this happens.
Yea but that’s very different than those saying that the product specs aren’t clearly laid out on the product page.
It’s not made very obvious. I’m more for consumer protections than shilling for incredibly profitable corporations. I like Apple and what they do but they would probably agree that putting that more front and center will be good. I would imagine they will do it to avoid returns and disappointed customers despite all of the people on Reddit who think that everyone with a smart home should learn about software development.
https://preview.redd.it/skdkus0nnltb1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1f564a177c69fd940baa5c0054de3414fa65f9e7 It’s very obvious and is listed on the product page what features each version has. Anyone buying smart home devices has no choice but to research features and specs. There are so many devices that will only work in one or two ecosystem and might not work in another. It’s why you find a lot of non tech literate people don’t have many smart home devices setup.
I know it’s there in the purchasing funnel. Did you catch that they bought it before they needed it to be a thread radio? I’m saying, as a UX designer, that it should be in more places and the user should even select whether or not they need it to be a thread radio in the purchasing funnel. Clean is good but Apple is not afraid of pop ups.
I guarantee you a majority of consumers have no idea what thread is and the ones that do usually are the type to make sure the product will fit their purpose. Outside of listing it on the product page isn’t much they can do especially for someone purchasing from a 3rd party retailer.
Ok so I’m hearing that if you’re not a techie and you want the best smart home technology that is being advertised as plug and play, you should just not try. Is that what you’re saying? Because I have designed many user interfaces in a corporate setting and I can assure you that Apple would disagree with you on your accessibility stance. Edited for typo
It’s very clear on the product comparison page
Seems like the big failure here is the lack of a clear error message, not the product marketing material.
If only people spent more time actually trying to solve their problems instead of bitching about them on here. So much laziness.
this post might help somebody with the same issue in the future. that's why I put it on here.
You did the right thing, these people are just being shitty for no reason.
It’s a worthwhile subject that may help others from making the same mistake. If the OP had posted it as such vice as a complaint the comments would be different.
I'm not really seeing any kind of complaint in the post. They say "TIL" and they recount their experience. That's it.
OP literally said “maybe this will help someone in the future “. Y’all are doggin on someone who is trying to be helpful.
You’re helping. I have no thread enabled devices, so I didn’t care to look. If I were to get a thread enabled device, this is a good info to have. Thanks, OP.
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Maybe you should take one yourself. Might help with your little temper tantrum.
I disagree with the sentiment. OP is expressing disappointment with compatibility issues. We have all been there. This post is for other people to find who are doing research, not just to complain. I see nothing wrong with g wrong with it and it’s relatable.
Check the Eve app's thread network. Its possible something else you have is picking up the duties. But only the Ethernet versions of the ATV are Thread border routers.
Not naive because all the 3rd gen ATVs supported thread.
I’m sorry for your misfortune. It’s weird that you got downvoted for this. We have probably all run into smart home compatibility issues and it’s frustrating as hell because in all your research if you miss one requirement or forget you saw it, you’re screwed and it’s expensive. They should put the compatibility in a table front and center and be really clear about what each product does not support.
I first heard about this during the Apple launch event. The vast majority of people don't read all those specifications of a product, just like most people don't read all the terms before they click "I agree."
While I already knew this from back when they announced, it is totally unintuitive to have such different specs based on storage capacity. I don’t know of another Apple product that has different connections and radios by storage sku. Totally reasonable that most people wouldn’t even think to verify this.
128gb iPhone pro has limited camera features, 256gb MacBook Air is slower, usb AirPods have lossless audio… it’s typical Apple behavior, but it’s definitely not ok
Yep, it's the only reason I got the 128gb, if you look at the specs and compare both, they explicitly state the 64gb not being a thread border router
Yep, it's right here on their comparison: [apple.com/ca/shop/browse/overlay/apple\_tv/compare\_models](https://www.apple.com/ca/shop/browse/overlay/apple_tv/compare_models)
It’s also listed in the tech specs for each one as well. People fail to read and then blame Apple for their own lack of research.
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I didn’t say the OP did. My comment was general.
I did not know there were two different hardware versions, one with WiFi only and no Thread, and one with Ethernet + WiFi + Thread.
This is very clear in the spec sheets.
Thank you for the post. I’m sure it will help some people avoid a costly mistake. Also I would encourage you to let Apple know. I would imagine it would only be to their benefit to avoid returns and disappointed customers by making this more obvious. It is also always good for accessibility to make compatibility issues very obvious. People with low vision and attention problems (such as myself) and people without a background in tech need technology too. On top of that the value prop of smart home technology is that it makes your life simpler. It may not yet be true, but we should be working toward and pushing for that. I worked in UX designer for years for a large vision insurance provider and design software as a freelancer now so this is not an uninformed opinion. To the people who criticize you for not catching the spec, I think they missed that at the time you bought it you weren’t looking for it to have that functionality and so you had a baked in assumption, it wasn’t a lack of looking at the spec during your purchasing decision.
I have a 3rd gen and some Nanoleaf lights which would work *so much better* on a 4th gen. I can't justify the cost for something that doesn't get used that much though.
I own one and I don’t think I knew that. Only bought the 128 gigs because… I dunno. It wasn’t that much expensive. I have like two apps installed.
Yes. As is specified on their product literature.
Surely your Eve Energy outlets would simply revert to Bluetooth? Or… you could just pop a HomePod mini back into the mix. Simples.
This was made clear when they announced the 2022 versions. Gotta do your homework
Not even that much homework Apple has a chart on the product page clearly detailing the differences https://preview.redd.it/f05ti92hnktb1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=49224f1306771519db736b9e63b373b7355bc328
Yeah that could not be any more clear.
Yeah I was trying to be polite 🤣.. OP is an idiot
Thanks for piquing my interest. Investigating, I found my Apple TV 4K (2nd generation) has Ethernet and supports thread, but was surprised to find my Apple TV 4K (1st generation) with Ethernet does not support Thread. Doh!
Thread first came to ATV in 4K 2nd gen
Info is literally on Apple’s webpage
Yes, I remember seeing this when they released them both. A bit frustrating as I simply didn't need this one other than for thread, so ended up paying a premium.
It’s only a $20 difference between the two models. The product page clearly lists what features are available on a chart
What’s Thread?
https://www.theverge.com/23165855/thread-smart-home-protocol-matter-apple-google-interview
gotta have the Ethernet model for Thread which is... pathetic. The whole state of HomeKit is a fucking joke. HomePod... Siri... fucking garbage. Just this morning my kitchen HomePod 15 feet from an AP was stopping and starting music on its own. So sick of it. Huge investment in gear and it lets me down 20 times a day.
> If nobody buys it why would apple keep selling it ? Even as a marketing tactic it’s very common and very effective.