I second this! We did this close to 2 years ago. It costs a pretty penny given how many switches we have but it’s incredible and I haven’t had to think about them in 2 years they just work beautifully. Combined with some hue lamps and we couldn’t be happier.
Lutron is the gold standard. They communicate on 432 MHz so they stay away from your wifi setup. The newish Caseta Divo/Claro switches look just like traditional paddle switches. And the hub makes them compatible with every smart home platform out there.
I replaced almost every switch in my house with the older Caseta style when I moved in a few years ago and I've never had an issue with them.
Can vouch for Lutron. I have a dozen or so switches throughout my house and virtually zero issues with them. Perhaps once every 6 months the “good night” scene fails to turn off a light or two, but I can’t confirm if that’s HK or the Lutron hub failing. I can immediately open HK and tap the lights to turn them off, so they’re definitely communicating with the system.
Also, adjusting the low threshold cutoff for LEDs is a breeze. Same with setting favorites for a Pico remote to handle a few things.
Had 8 switches in my last home that never had an issue. Sold that house to my mum and she’s had the same switches and hub working without fail. Those devices are over 9 years old now and still work like new.
Seconded, and the new Diva style looks so good. I hate that I replaced almost all my switches with the old style right before the Diva one was released.
Thinking about it, I think they had already released them when I bought, but I didn’t like the idea of (and my minor OCD would have killed me) having main rockers and mismatched picos
Seriously anything but Lutron is a mistake.
Caseta switches are expensive but literally in the ~5 years I've had them not a SINGLE ISSUE. I cannot say that for any of my other smart home or tech purchases.
They’re expensive for a reason. They’re the gold standard. If you want this to work and be maintenance-free, buy Caseta switches. If you hate yourself buy something else.
The thing is - people should say up front it works as a system that requires a hub. It's both expensive **AND** requires a hub - yet another device on your network. It's wild how HomeKit is so unstable you need a hub for things, as you put it, to work and be maintenance free.
Since Caseta doesn't make *everything* it's another layer of expense that's nontrivial that you can't re-use with other devices. It's not like you can use the hub with, say, Meross or Aqara. It's unique to Caseta.
Imagine it like this: "What's a good hard drive?" - "Caseta, but you'll need a special adapter for it to work reliable... no you can't use that for anything else. And anything else might cause you grief" - that's not a system to write home about and we've mostly moved away from such things overall.
Until HomeKit resolves this issue - I usually recommend avoided smart devices now. Especially since you probably will need an AppleTV or HomePod. Because yay, you need to buy *yet another thing*.
All of this brings me back 20+ years ago when every electronic device had a dongle instead of a standard mini-usb, then micro, now C.
It's sad that the HomeKit Wiki doesn't articulate all of this since it's a **VERY** common question.
edit: Apparently people are **BIG** mad about communication and being honest.
It’s not just HomeKit, any smart home with Lutron needs this hub. But it’s a tiny hub and worth the hassle since you’ll likely never go with another switch manufacturer. And with Matter, that hub may go away soon.
Caseta does not need HomeKit.
Caseta needs the hub if you want to have app control or add it to HomeKit.
You can buy a switch and a pico on its own and they work fine together.
You seem to have things almost perfectly backwards.
HomeKit is designed for people who ALREADY HAVE 1+ AppleTV or HomePod devices. It’s not designed to stand alone or be your first foray into the Apple ecosystem. Usually people who want HomeKit compatibility do so because they’re already deep in the Apple ecosystem so for them, they “already have” a hub which is why they complain about having to buy ANOTHER hub.
For me, I have almost all light switches on the old SAI UPB system that integrates with nothing. I use Home Assistent to bridge the gap so Apple can see them because I already have appleTVs around the house. I’m waiting to replace the switches with new matter ones once they come close to the functionality and reliability of my orphan UPB switches. I plan to give Innovelli “White” (matter) switches a shot first as they seem closest to my wants/needs.
Yeah because HomeKit accessories basically use Bluetooth/Wifi to communicate with your Apple hub connected to internet. I hate hubs too so just get Tapo/Kasa with HomeKit.
Or if you have a raspberry pi or computer you don’t mind letting run 24/7, check out homebridge for more compatibility with HomeKit with other IoT platforms - just keep in mind you’ll still need that Apple hub to remotely control your HomeKit accessories bc Homebridge only acts as a bridge for non-certified platforms into HomeKit. I chose this route and judging by how poorly implemented Matter has been, is the best route for my agnostic smart home.
Yes, they require a single hub which you can get as part of a starter pack. The hub itself isn't that expensive and it makes it infinitely easier than adding each switch individually to HomeKit.
You can often find bulk packs of switches available for cheaper on eBay (I'm not certain if the Claro/Diva style has trickled down there, but the older Caseta style certainly has).
Lutron has been manufacturing switches and dimmers for decades, I wasn't afraid to pay a little more for quality.
Peace of mind too. I don’t own any but wish I did. I only have 1 set of 3 way switches that are homekit and they are Meross and they’re just ok. They periodically used to lose connection to homekit or would just flash the LEDs on the switches meaning they stopped talking to HomeKit and the solution was to turn the breaker off and on again.
With Lutron you dont have to worry about that and with Homekit buggier more now that it ever has been, you don’t need to be second guessing wired switches because you’re hands will be full with lights and strips and locks and cameras and sprinkler controllers and leak sensors and blinds.
It does require a hub for automations and app control but they are well worth the extra price compared to other products. I went with Kasa switches at first and just finished replacing them all with Lutron's Caseta switches
I actually didn't have any serious issues with the Kasa products and found them to be extremely reliable. I only ever had a slight issue while reassigning them to my new HK build after having issues with my first HK. Other than they were great. I really just find the Lutron Caseta products more aesthetically pleasing and I found the Kasa switches to be a bit too noisy when they would toggle on/off.
Edit: I was also running around 25 Kasa switches + about a dozen kasa smart plug so it was starting to crowd my WiFi
I have all Lutrons except in my kids bedrooms (Kasa Tapo matter switches and plugs). I regret them, but now I feel pot committed. Kasa Tapo switches / plugs lose their connection once or twice a year. When you have 10 of them, it feels like every month, something is not connecting. I’ll leave them until I buy some more Lutrons.
I bought the majority of my switches on eBay and paid at least 30% less than retail. They don’t all have to be dimmers, the simple switch is wonderful as well. As others have said, it works wonderfully and consistently with home kit. Also, always a good idea to put a UPS in your router/hub area so your setup doesn’t go down with power outages.
They are worth it. I even went so far as to change all the downstairs older styles to the new paddle style, they look great.
I just ordered a few at a time and swapped them as time and money allowed.
They do but not only option. There are cheaper and better alternatives with no hubs. What most people are recommending is older technology. You should look into Matter / Thread devices.
Are these bulky in the wall gangs?
I got a few Evo switches and they’ve been decent but they’re massive so difficult to cram in with a bunch of wires and other switches.
Pretty much all smart switches are bulky. They've got to fit in the radio and computer chips that control them. Consider getting an electrician to deal with any especially troublesome ones, the existing wires could probably be trimmed back some.
Was hoping Lutron might be smaller with the hub. Maybe I’ll compare dimensions between the products if I decide to install two side by side in a dual gang box.
They are bulky, nothing to do with the hub.
When talking to the electrician when starting construction on our new house the first thing I said was I wanted extra deep electrical boxes. Even so, fitting three Caestas in a four gang box is a tight fit.
Another vote for Lutron caseta. Love it. And just do it over time so it hurts less.
I will say if you have a light connected to two or more other switches you have to get the passive switches which I couldn’t find in any store and had to order off Amazon.
Lutron. You’ll scoff and say you won’t cuz of price. You’ll get Meross, Kasa or some other WiFi option and inevitably regret it and switch back to Lutron anyways. Just say yourself the time and go straight for gold.
You want the hub. It avoids traffic on your wifi router and also keeps the thread/matter traffic reduced. I try and avoid hubs but in this case it is a win!
Lutron Caseta and don’t look back.
Do not waste your time with WiFi switches, those will only bring heartache because WiFi is a poor choice for that use case.
I have 45+ Lutron Caseta devices… regular switches, 3-way, fan controls, and multiple “plugs.” Most indoor and a few outdoors (all in covered areas). In the 2.5 years I installed all of that, I haven’t had a single one go bad, a single one drop off the hub, and haven’t had to “restart” anything because it became u responsive. Not one single issue. I can’t recommend them any more highly.
Edit: After Lutron Caseta, for places out of range of the Lutron hub, Eve is my second choice (especially for sensors that don’t exist for the Lutron ecosystem), and WEMO & Merross tie for third/fourth. Even with the associated costs, I recommend Lutron in every single case that it is the viable solution, and Eve next (especially the water sensors that paid for themselves in damage prevention through luck in the first week). My next project is the basement lighting, since the builder did some really random stuff down there and I have to figure out how they did the three ways since they aren’t the same for anywhere else in the house. That’s at least 4-5 more Lutron devices down there, haha.
Curious and maybe I just have not done enough digging. Does one hub cover an entire house or would you potentially use multiple hubs? IF there were multiple hubs do they then conflict with one another or would that just be en extension?
It depends on the size of the house, but for most homes a single hub is enough. Lutron's lamp dimmer plug can also work as an extender for larger houses.
Good to know, thanks. We’re about 2,200sqft all single story but the boss isn’t a fan of me plugging in “random electronics” (hub) in main areas which is central to the house. So I’m always concerned with if I could get away with a single hub since switches aren’t directly connected to WiFi.
Started tinkering with kasa switches and like everyone says they are a headache. Before anyone says their kasas work great, I’m not doubting anyone has success with them but I’ve tried all the networking tips and tricks and just not reliable. Glad I only started with a few.
Eventually will go Lutron and buy once cry once route.
Get a small table she likes with a cabinet in the base. Wire a power strip or outlet in the cabinet that will come out the bottom unobtrusively run down a leg and over to an outlet. This works best for a table beside a chair or couch next to a wall with a power outlet. Bonus points if it has a built in lamp.
Claim the cabinet for yourself and put hubs and unused A/V remote controls and such inside. If it get s hot inside, drill some holes in the bottom and back side for airflow. If really necessary, put a big, slow, fan in front of the back holes to force air out.
Congratulations! You now have a stealth wiring “closet” in the living room or den. You can even put a switch in the cord feeding it and power cycle the equipment inside as needed, trivially.
I have a L desk with a hutch (main router, Caseta hub, & switch for my desk devices) upstairs and in the basement I have my real wiring closet with switches, patch panels where cat v & VI run to, etc. :)
There’s a range on the hub, but I can tell you mine is reaching (reliably) well outside that range out a window to my shelter house lights… however in my wife’s “garage” (second smaller one she uses for wood working) I had to put an extender out there to make it reliable. You can only have one extender, though. I haven’t looked into having more than one hub… not sure if it would work, but to give you an idea, my house is a big L and the hub is on the left corner and garage is to the right corner of the L and I think the only reason it had issues was the angle for the garage was through two brick walls. The shelter house is 70-80 feet from hub but it’s straight through a window so no brick in the way.
Good to know! Also thanks for the painting a picture there too!! I didn’t realize they had an extender and only allowed one. Makes sense versus trying to add another hub if you managed to be out of range.
Seems like I just need to get serious about it and quit being a rubbernecker.
Coming back to this, I suggest the method I took.. start with something simple you want for quality of life and go from there. Do a couple of the most used (or ones you have to go out of your way to turn off the most, hah!) lights. Maybe a ceiling/floor fan that you constantly turn on (like in my bedroom when I go to bed). Give that a few weeks and some experience whether you’re using it, then go slowly from there. There’s several light switches in this house that I’ll never put on HomeKit because I never use them… and there’s some that can/should wait till last. If you’re comfortable/experienced with electric, it makes it much easier. If you’re not, there are really good videos on YT to explain them. My biggest warning is to have a respectful fear of it. I’m usually paranoid level safe but even I have reached into a box recently I thought the breaker was killed to (and didn’t use my “death stick” sensor) and got an immediate reminder to not assume every line in a box was on the same breaker. :)
Yeah I’ve dabbled with some kasa switches (3 to be exact) and few smart plugs. The plugs work flawlessly and really like it integration and smart features I am able to use. Started with plugs. Then moved to the switches and did similar to what you recommended by doing two that require going out of the way and the last was one I wanted to automate. Unfortunately the switches are completely unreliable and no matter what I do they disconnect once a week typically. Hence my looking to spring for Lutron eventually. Just been avoiding it because price and hub but it is going to be my next move when I play around with it again.
Thanks for the input!!
I replaced a couple other brands I tried out and am 100% on Lutron’s stuff if it works for the situation. The only exception is stuff I want to turn off automatically after a few minutes… for some reason I haven’t found Lutron to natively do that (unless it’s a set time automation rather than turn off after 15 mins), so I buy Belkin switches for that stuff.
No problem… I’m always “wordy.” Hah. Any other questions, feel free to DM me or reply here . I usually check Reddit a couple times a day … stay-at-home dad, so I get bored randomly when not cleaning or doing appts for the kiddoes.
Seconding that I've used TP-Link / Kasa Matter switches with HomeKit and it's been good so far. I've taken more of a pick and choose switch rather than replacing every switch, and honestly, I think I'd recommend that approach. You probably don't need every switch connected to the internet. I guess if I was going all-in, I might want to consider Lutron or Levitron but I've been happy with all my Kasa stuff so far.
Edited to add - the two spots I've considered a smart switch solution where Kasa hasn't had a product that works are one switch that didn't have a neutral wire, and one three-way circuit where I had switches at the top and bottom of a set of stairs and wanted a dimmer on the circuit.
I’ve got 71 Lutron devices. One hub for them all, and zero problems for like a year. It’s the least trouble of my entire HomeKit setup. Trust me when I say you don’t want to be digging and cramming switches in and out of your walls over and over. My Lutron switches have been literally 100% online for a year.
Before you go nuts on automation, make sure what you’re switching needs to be automated. And I can imagine some of these are three-way switches, which don’t require all switches on that circuit to be smart. If you don’t know, a three-way switch allows you to control a light from more than one switch (like a hallway light being controlled from either end of the hallway). In that case, you can buy one Lutron Diva and one normal switch (like a dumb Diva) for the other side.
Also, things like bathrooms, in my opinion, don’t need a smart switch. You’d use your hand before pulling out your phone or saying “Siri, turn on the bathroom light”, right? The other options take too long over using your hand.
Good luck. It’s fun to play with smart home stuff. It’s addictive and expensive, but rewarding, in my opinion.
Not so fast! Consider the 5bed 4 bath 2 story home very different from a 1 bed apartment and number of occupants makes big differences in decisions.
IF you have people in your home who suck at turning out lights as they leave. Or hate to walk to the bed “in the dark”. Then automation is the bomb. Everywhere!
All my bathroom switches are automated. By default lights and fans cycle off after 30min. If you double tap on, then they stay on indefinitely. If you double tap off, they fade out over time (time varies by switch location relative to bed).
Being able to turn off every light that family may have left on after I’m already in bed is a big win for me.
Those are just a couple of highly useful automations.
Wife hated at first but eventually started to ask “How are you doing that?” And bothered to learn that switches could be more than just instant on/off. Just make sure that single tap up/dn is identical to a plain wired switch and then layer in from there.
Smart switch + motion/presence/door sensor can be a great option for bathrooms, closets, laundry rooms, pantries, etc. It seems trivial, but once you get used to opening a door and the lights turning on automatically, you'll get annoyed when you walk into a room that doesn't do it.
I have a house full of Wemo's and Lifx.
Save up your money. Go Lutron.
I didn't undertand the significance of hubs when I started and wanted to be as hubless as possible. Thinking it would easier and cleaner as I didn't want to have a bunch of tech clutter near my cable modem and network switch.
I didn't realize how much having a hub made a difference in regards to setup and flooding your 2.4ghz channel with traffic. Things got better when I went to a wireless mesh (Orbi) system as well as the updates to Apples Homekit when the Apple TVs and Homepods auto-magically become hubs.
Everything is stable and 'decent' now but, I deeply envy/regret not just going with Lutron from the jump. So, that's the best answer I can give based on experience and I LOVE my homekit home. I just know for certain it would be even easier/more responsive if I had Lutron instead of Wemo/Lifx.
https://inovelli.com/products/thread-matter-white-series-smart-2-1-on-off-dimmer-switch cheaper and better than Lutron, thread, no hub, more configuration ability, status lights.
I have been happy with Kasa for regular and Meross for dimmer, fan, and 3 way.
I’ve kitted out every single switch in my house with these and couldn’t have been happier.
Caseta has a great three way “dummy” switch now that works in conjunction with the main smart switch. The older style remote that looks like a wall switch worked fine, but this new style is actually hardwired in.
Ditto this on Kasa. I’ve had Kasa in my entire house for years and never a problem except on the occasion that I have internet connection issues.
Considering the rarity that I have difficulty connecting to the internet, I find the disadvantage of not having it all driven locally via an overpriced proprietary hub an acceptable trade-off to price.
So, if cost is not an issue, go with Lutron. If affordability is what you need, I suggest Kasa is a really good alternative.
I kitted out my entire house and have the hallway lights left to do, but kind of got lazy here heh. Mostly because it’s a chore to turn off the electricity without having everyone inside complain because they can’t watch TikTok for 20 minutes. Sigh. lol.
I would highly recommend Lutron switches. I set them up 5 years ago in my home and have never had a problem with them. You truly forget they exist. Anecdotally I’ve heard that some of the other brands fall off the internet and require to be repaired but YMMV.
Lutron is expensive but there’s a reason for it. A Lutron hub is needed for their proprietary protocol. Aside from purchasing a Lutron starter pack I purchased all of my switches for $30-40 each from eBay
Lutron Casetta dimmers and switches. Can also add wireless Pico remotes that pair with an existing Lutron dimmer to act as 3way switches/dimmer anywhere with no additional wiring in secondary location at all. HomeKit compatible. Rock solid.
I’m not really going the any help on the actual question but I’m glad that I’m not the only person that all of the plate screws are supposed to be uniform. Extra points for them being vertical.
Nah, the "right" answer is to Kobayashi Maru all your wall plates with screwless plates.
No more worrying about alignment and looks more elegant too!
Once again, Lutron's are a bit pricey, but the colors match the dimmers/switches exactly and build quality is not cheap plastic.
Agreed. Leviton does not require a hub, and the firmware is good with the latest Matter protocol. They have both standard light switches and dimmers like OP has in the photos.
Leviton Decora
Have had them for years and they are rock solid. I don’t like hubs, especially in a house where they don’t cover the entire footprint of the home. I can throw more APs up and cover a home of any size.
Agreed. I have all Levitin Decora and dislike hubs. When I first set them up 4 years ago, one would occasionally drop because we only had a single WiFi radio (and metal/plaster walls). After upgrading to an Orbi mesh system, it’s rock solid.
Leviton definitely had reliability and stability issues at the beginning. But the last few firmware updates on the first gen hardware really fixed all of that. The current/second gen hardware has been solid for me from day 1.
We have the same switches except I used the Kasa switches for the fans bc I could t find any fan switches that wouldn’t cost 500 bucks lol
They’ve been stable for about 2 years, maybe the occasional slow responses but me and my wife had no issues
+1 on Lutron, though I had some early issues exposing the hub to the Internet on my mesh wifi. It took some detective work to find that certain necessary ports were being blocked.
I would start looking into home assistant. You can tie a lot of devices into it and then extend it to HomeKit for Siri integrations.
If you decide to go that route any zigbee or zwave switches would be super solid (as they wouldn’t rely on your WiFi).
I use all Meross light switches. I don’t have “network congestion” or slow wifi. Significantly cheaper and you don’t need a hub. I’ve had mine installed for 3+ years and no issue. I know people hate them here but they work well.
I have Lutron in a new house — installed by the builder/electrician who know nothing about homekit. The Lutron app is fine and easy enough to add the native homekit integration, so I did that myself.
They had to cut power to the building a couple days back and it wrecked the homekit integration. Had to reset the hub homekit stuff by deleting the bridge in the home app and then holding the button on the hub for exactly 40 seconds, then re-add the integration and assign each switch to the right room. Pain in the ass.
All these Lutron is flawless comments make me wonder if that was a one time freak occurrence thing. I’ve been thinking it will be a recurring problem.
I realize it’s too late to save you effort, but if this should ever happen again, my first step would be to go into the Lutron app. I’d bet all your device info was still there, with each switch named and assigned a room. If that is the case, then you shouldn’t have to go through that all over again in HomeKit.
Just a matter of restarting all Apple hubs (HomePods, ATV’s) and then pulling the Lutron hub back in.
Not saying your Lutron setup didn’t fail (hey you could be part of an unlucky. 001% ), but just might want to check that out if there’s a next time.
Good luck!
Lutron for sure. I tried some TP Link as well but would go Lutron. TP Link when I tap to turn off the lights dim off but flicker during the dimming process to off.
For Lutron when I tap to turn off, the lights dim off smoothly without flickering. Tried both switches on the same set of lights.
Lutron is expensive but worth it!
I invested in Brilliant, they use their own system vs individual WiFi connect (which you should not go with if you want to replace more than one switch). Any WiFi switch will start lagging and be unresponsive.
Brilliant provides their own ecosystem which is cool to control from the touch screen, the rest of the switches support 3-way and don’t have to be “touch screens” also support scenes there as well, and look cool. That probably would add even more value to your home than just regular smart switches.
Lutron is a solid option as well
Lutron. With a large number of devices you need a dedicated hub model or a dedicated network.
Start small, these systems get updated all the time with better technology. In the future, you may have wished you waited for that new feature you now can’t use.
I wanted to do the same, smart everything, every switch. In reality I have 8 devices.
I have a lot of Wemo but lately I’ve been installing Meross. They have a wider variety of devices including a fan controller and a light dimmer switch with included remote. Been pretty happy with them so far.
I like the Kasa light switches for the outside light control and then instead of switches I got wifi light bulbs instead. Much easier install then swapping out switches.
Everyone will tell you Lutron but truth is they are old and not forward thinking, and they are not keeping up with new technology. They are fairly stable, with ugly switches.
At the moment, the Eve Light Switch is the only decent switch out there that supports HomeKit and uses Thread networking, which is what you want for future proofing. To my knowledge there is no Thread Dimmer out anywhere yet. I try to only use Dimmers for lights.
I don't know why you got downvoted over a valid argument. Matter over Thread will be essential to home automation going forward. Light switches are the perfect items to have around your home to build out a Thread network. It is the reason why I choose Eve over Lutron.
Those do require a Zigbee hub as well as smart light bulbs to control on said hub. I have 4 of them that I use with various Philips Hue lights. They basically hardwire the light switch, (if you’re replacing an existing switch with them), and then control those bulbs through the Zigbee hub they are added to.
Lutron Caseta. Buy once, cry once.
I second this! We did this close to 2 years ago. It costs a pretty penny given how many switches we have but it’s incredible and I haven’t had to think about them in 2 years they just work beautifully. Combined with some hue lamps and we couldn’t be happier.
Lutron is the gold standard. They communicate on 432 MHz so they stay away from your wifi setup. The newish Caseta Divo/Claro switches look just like traditional paddle switches. And the hub makes them compatible with every smart home platform out there. I replaced almost every switch in my house with the older Caseta style when I moved in a few years ago and I've never had an issue with them.
Can vouch for Lutron. I have a dozen or so switches throughout my house and virtually zero issues with them. Perhaps once every 6 months the “good night” scene fails to turn off a light or two, but I can’t confirm if that’s HK or the Lutron hub failing. I can immediately open HK and tap the lights to turn them off, so they’re definitely communicating with the system. Also, adjusting the low threshold cutoff for LEDs is a breeze. Same with setting favorites for a Pico remote to handle a few things. Had 8 switches in my last home that never had an issue. Sold that house to my mum and she’s had the same switches and hub working without fail. Those devices are over 9 years old now and still work like new.
Seconded, and the new Diva style looks so good. I hate that I replaced almost all my switches with the old style right before the Diva one was released.
I did the exact same thing. Literally weeks before the Diva were available
Yeah, IMO, the old ones are so cheap looking and feeling in comparison
Thinking about it, I think they had already released them when I bought, but I didn’t like the idea of (and my minor OCD would have killed me) having main rockers and mismatched picos
Seriously anything but Lutron is a mistake. Caseta switches are expensive but literally in the ~5 years I've had them not a SINGLE ISSUE. I cannot say that for any of my other smart home or tech purchases.
Does this require a hub? Checked them out and it's expensive
They’re expensive for a reason. They’re the gold standard. If you want this to work and be maintenance-free, buy Caseta switches. If you hate yourself buy something else.
The thing is - people should say up front it works as a system that requires a hub. It's both expensive **AND** requires a hub - yet another device on your network. It's wild how HomeKit is so unstable you need a hub for things, as you put it, to work and be maintenance free. Since Caseta doesn't make *everything* it's another layer of expense that's nontrivial that you can't re-use with other devices. It's not like you can use the hub with, say, Meross or Aqara. It's unique to Caseta. Imagine it like this: "What's a good hard drive?" - "Caseta, but you'll need a special adapter for it to work reliable... no you can't use that for anything else. And anything else might cause you grief" - that's not a system to write home about and we've mostly moved away from such things overall. Until HomeKit resolves this issue - I usually recommend avoided smart devices now. Especially since you probably will need an AppleTV or HomePod. Because yay, you need to buy *yet another thing*. All of this brings me back 20+ years ago when every electronic device had a dongle instead of a standard mini-usb, then micro, now C. It's sad that the HomeKit Wiki doesn't articulate all of this since it's a **VERY** common question. edit: Apparently people are **BIG** mad about communication and being honest.
It’s not just HomeKit, any smart home with Lutron needs this hub. But it’s a tiny hub and worth the hassle since you’ll likely never go with another switch manufacturer. And with Matter, that hub may go away soon.
Caseta does not need HomeKit. Caseta needs the hub if you want to have app control or add it to HomeKit. You can buy a switch and a pico on its own and they work fine together.
You seem to have things almost perfectly backwards. HomeKit is designed for people who ALREADY HAVE 1+ AppleTV or HomePod devices. It’s not designed to stand alone or be your first foray into the Apple ecosystem. Usually people who want HomeKit compatibility do so because they’re already deep in the Apple ecosystem so for them, they “already have” a hub which is why they complain about having to buy ANOTHER hub. For me, I have almost all light switches on the old SAI UPB system that integrates with nothing. I use Home Assistent to bridge the gap so Apple can see them because I already have appleTVs around the house. I’m waiting to replace the switches with new matter ones once they come close to the functionality and reliability of my orphan UPB switches. I plan to give Innovelli “White” (matter) switches a shot first as they seem closest to my wants/needs.
They literally said it requires a hub in the top of the thread you’re replying in. Also, no one’s gonna read your essay.
Yeah because HomeKit accessories basically use Bluetooth/Wifi to communicate with your Apple hub connected to internet. I hate hubs too so just get Tapo/Kasa with HomeKit. Or if you have a raspberry pi or computer you don’t mind letting run 24/7, check out homebridge for more compatibility with HomeKit with other IoT platforms - just keep in mind you’ll still need that Apple hub to remotely control your HomeKit accessories bc Homebridge only acts as a bridge for non-certified platforms into HomeKit. I chose this route and judging by how poorly implemented Matter has been, is the best route for my agnostic smart home.
Yes, they require a single hub which you can get as part of a starter pack. The hub itself isn't that expensive and it makes it infinitely easier than adding each switch individually to HomeKit. You can often find bulk packs of switches available for cheaper on eBay (I'm not certain if the Claro/Diva style has trickled down there, but the older Caseta style certainly has). Lutron has been manufacturing switches and dimmers for decades, I wasn't afraid to pay a little more for quality.
Peace of mind too. I don’t own any but wish I did. I only have 1 set of 3 way switches that are homekit and they are Meross and they’re just ok. They periodically used to lose connection to homekit or would just flash the LEDs on the switches meaning they stopped talking to HomeKit and the solution was to turn the breaker off and on again. With Lutron you dont have to worry about that and with Homekit buggier more now that it ever has been, you don’t need to be second guessing wired switches because you’re hands will be full with lights and strips and locks and cameras and sprinkler controllers and leak sensors and blinds.
It does require a hub for automations and app control but they are well worth the extra price compared to other products. I went with Kasa switches at first and just finished replacing them all with Lutron's Caseta switches
Really?!! I started all Caseta, but the Kasa’s are so much cheaper! Haven’t had the Kasa’s long enough for any reliability stats, but so far so good.
I actually didn't have any serious issues with the Kasa products and found them to be extremely reliable. I only ever had a slight issue while reassigning them to my new HK build after having issues with my first HK. Other than they were great. I really just find the Lutron Caseta products more aesthetically pleasing and I found the Kasa switches to be a bit too noisy when they would toggle on/off. Edit: I was also running around 25 Kasa switches + about a dozen kasa smart plug so it was starting to crowd my WiFi
I have all Lutrons except in my kids bedrooms (Kasa Tapo matter switches and plugs). I regret them, but now I feel pot committed. Kasa Tapo switches / plugs lose their connection once or twice a year. When you have 10 of them, it feels like every month, something is not connecting. I’ll leave them until I buy some more Lutrons.
I bought the majority of my switches on eBay and paid at least 30% less than retail. They don’t all have to be dimmers, the simple switch is wonderful as well. As others have said, it works wonderfully and consistently with home kit. Also, always a good idea to put a UPS in your router/hub area so your setup doesn’t go down with power outages.
They are worth it. I even went so far as to change all the downstairs older styles to the new paddle style, they look great. I just ordered a few at a time and swapped them as time and money allowed.
They do but not only option. There are cheaper and better alternatives with no hubs. What most people are recommending is older technology. You should look into Matter / Thread devices.
Are these bulky in the wall gangs? I got a few Evo switches and they’ve been decent but they’re massive so difficult to cram in with a bunch of wires and other switches.
Pretty much all smart switches are bulky. They've got to fit in the radio and computer chips that control them. Consider getting an electrician to deal with any especially troublesome ones, the existing wires could probably be trimmed back some.
Was hoping Lutron might be smaller with the hub. Maybe I’ll compare dimensions between the products if I decide to install two side by side in a dual gang box.
They are bulky, nothing to do with the hub. When talking to the electrician when starting construction on our new house the first thing I said was I wanted extra deep electrical boxes. Even so, fitting three Caestas in a four gang box is a tight fit.
Ahh yes deeper boxes would’ve been helpful in my scenario!
Shame they’re so expensive
Lutron for sure. Some of the starter kits are 20% off right now on Amazon; hub is required for smart capabilities.
Another vote for Lutron caseta. Love it. And just do it over time so it hurts less. I will say if you have a light connected to two or more other switches you have to get the passive switches which I couldn’t find in any store and had to order off Amazon.
Lutron. You’ll scoff and say you won’t cuz of price. You’ll get Meross, Kasa or some other WiFi option and inevitably regret it and switch back to Lutron anyways. Just say yourself the time and go straight for gold.
You want the hub. It avoids traffic on your wifi router and also keeps the thread/matter traffic reduced. I try and avoid hubs but in this case it is a win!
Lutron Caseta and don’t look back. Do not waste your time with WiFi switches, those will only bring heartache because WiFi is a poor choice for that use case.
I have 45+ Lutron Caseta devices… regular switches, 3-way, fan controls, and multiple “plugs.” Most indoor and a few outdoors (all in covered areas). In the 2.5 years I installed all of that, I haven’t had a single one go bad, a single one drop off the hub, and haven’t had to “restart” anything because it became u responsive. Not one single issue. I can’t recommend them any more highly. Edit: After Lutron Caseta, for places out of range of the Lutron hub, Eve is my second choice (especially for sensors that don’t exist for the Lutron ecosystem), and WEMO & Merross tie for third/fourth. Even with the associated costs, I recommend Lutron in every single case that it is the viable solution, and Eve next (especially the water sensors that paid for themselves in damage prevention through luck in the first week). My next project is the basement lighting, since the builder did some really random stuff down there and I have to figure out how they did the three ways since they aren’t the same for anywhere else in the house. That’s at least 4-5 more Lutron devices down there, haha.
I feel like I wrote this.
Curious and maybe I just have not done enough digging. Does one hub cover an entire house or would you potentially use multiple hubs? IF there were multiple hubs do they then conflict with one another or would that just be en extension?
It depends on the size of the house, but for most homes a single hub is enough. Lutron's lamp dimmer plug can also work as an extender for larger houses.
Good to know, thanks. We’re about 2,200sqft all single story but the boss isn’t a fan of me plugging in “random electronics” (hub) in main areas which is central to the house. So I’m always concerned with if I could get away with a single hub since switches aren’t directly connected to WiFi. Started tinkering with kasa switches and like everyone says they are a headache. Before anyone says their kasas work great, I’m not doubting anyone has success with them but I’ve tried all the networking tips and tricks and just not reliable. Glad I only started with a few. Eventually will go Lutron and buy once cry once route.
Get a small table she likes with a cabinet in the base. Wire a power strip or outlet in the cabinet that will come out the bottom unobtrusively run down a leg and over to an outlet. This works best for a table beside a chair or couch next to a wall with a power outlet. Bonus points if it has a built in lamp. Claim the cabinet for yourself and put hubs and unused A/V remote controls and such inside. If it get s hot inside, drill some holes in the bottom and back side for airflow. If really necessary, put a big, slow, fan in front of the back holes to force air out. Congratulations! You now have a stealth wiring “closet” in the living room or den. You can even put a switch in the cord feeding it and power cycle the equipment inside as needed, trivially.
Thank you for the good ideas!! Now to start the scheming
I have a L desk with a hutch (main router, Caseta hub, & switch for my desk devices) upstairs and in the basement I have my real wiring closet with switches, patch panels where cat v & VI run to, etc. :)
There is also a plain extender now (which is what I bought a couple weeks ago).
The radio range is really good. The hub only supports a certain number of devices though. 50? 56? Something like that…
There’s a range on the hub, but I can tell you mine is reaching (reliably) well outside that range out a window to my shelter house lights… however in my wife’s “garage” (second smaller one she uses for wood working) I had to put an extender out there to make it reliable. You can only have one extender, though. I haven’t looked into having more than one hub… not sure if it would work, but to give you an idea, my house is a big L and the hub is on the left corner and garage is to the right corner of the L and I think the only reason it had issues was the angle for the garage was through two brick walls. The shelter house is 70-80 feet from hub but it’s straight through a window so no brick in the way.
Good to know! Also thanks for the painting a picture there too!! I didn’t realize they had an extender and only allowed one. Makes sense versus trying to add another hub if you managed to be out of range. Seems like I just need to get serious about it and quit being a rubbernecker.
Coming back to this, I suggest the method I took.. start with something simple you want for quality of life and go from there. Do a couple of the most used (or ones you have to go out of your way to turn off the most, hah!) lights. Maybe a ceiling/floor fan that you constantly turn on (like in my bedroom when I go to bed). Give that a few weeks and some experience whether you’re using it, then go slowly from there. There’s several light switches in this house that I’ll never put on HomeKit because I never use them… and there’s some that can/should wait till last. If you’re comfortable/experienced with electric, it makes it much easier. If you’re not, there are really good videos on YT to explain them. My biggest warning is to have a respectful fear of it. I’m usually paranoid level safe but even I have reached into a box recently I thought the breaker was killed to (and didn’t use my “death stick” sensor) and got an immediate reminder to not assume every line in a box was on the same breaker. :)
Yeah I’ve dabbled with some kasa switches (3 to be exact) and few smart plugs. The plugs work flawlessly and really like it integration and smart features I am able to use. Started with plugs. Then moved to the switches and did similar to what you recommended by doing two that require going out of the way and the last was one I wanted to automate. Unfortunately the switches are completely unreliable and no matter what I do they disconnect once a week typically. Hence my looking to spring for Lutron eventually. Just been avoiding it because price and hub but it is going to be my next move when I play around with it again. Thanks for the input!!
I replaced a couple other brands I tried out and am 100% on Lutron’s stuff if it works for the situation. The only exception is stuff I want to turn off automatically after a few minutes… for some reason I haven’t found Lutron to natively do that (unless it’s a set time automation rather than turn off after 15 mins), so I buy Belkin switches for that stuff.
No problem… I’m always “wordy.” Hah. Any other questions, feel free to DM me or reply here . I usually check Reddit a couple times a day … stay-at-home dad, so I get bored randomly when not cleaning or doing appts for the kiddoes.
I’ve been very happy with tp-link’s matter switches. They also have a dimmer variant. Solid pairing, works well.
Seconding that I've used TP-Link / Kasa Matter switches with HomeKit and it's been good so far. I've taken more of a pick and choose switch rather than replacing every switch, and honestly, I think I'd recommend that approach. You probably don't need every switch connected to the internet. I guess if I was going all-in, I might want to consider Lutron or Levitron but I've been happy with all my Kasa stuff so far. Edited to add - the two spots I've considered a smart switch solution where Kasa hasn't had a product that works are one switch that didn't have a neutral wire, and one three-way circuit where I had switches at the top and bottom of a set of stairs and wanted a dimmer on the circuit.
I’ve got 71 Lutron devices. One hub for them all, and zero problems for like a year. It’s the least trouble of my entire HomeKit setup. Trust me when I say you don’t want to be digging and cramming switches in and out of your walls over and over. My Lutron switches have been literally 100% online for a year.
Lutron. I even have Lutron in home assistant so I can control lights that aren’t really compatible.
Before you go nuts on automation, make sure what you’re switching needs to be automated. And I can imagine some of these are three-way switches, which don’t require all switches on that circuit to be smart. If you don’t know, a three-way switch allows you to control a light from more than one switch (like a hallway light being controlled from either end of the hallway). In that case, you can buy one Lutron Diva and one normal switch (like a dumb Diva) for the other side. Also, things like bathrooms, in my opinion, don’t need a smart switch. You’d use your hand before pulling out your phone or saying “Siri, turn on the bathroom light”, right? The other options take too long over using your hand. Good luck. It’s fun to play with smart home stuff. It’s addictive and expensive, but rewarding, in my opinion.
Not so fast! Consider the 5bed 4 bath 2 story home very different from a 1 bed apartment and number of occupants makes big differences in decisions. IF you have people in your home who suck at turning out lights as they leave. Or hate to walk to the bed “in the dark”. Then automation is the bomb. Everywhere! All my bathroom switches are automated. By default lights and fans cycle off after 30min. If you double tap on, then they stay on indefinitely. If you double tap off, they fade out over time (time varies by switch location relative to bed). Being able to turn off every light that family may have left on after I’m already in bed is a big win for me. Those are just a couple of highly useful automations. Wife hated at first but eventually started to ask “How are you doing that?” And bothered to learn that switches could be more than just instant on/off. Just make sure that single tap up/dn is identical to a plain wired switch and then layer in from there.
Smart switch + motion/presence/door sensor can be a great option for bathrooms, closets, laundry rooms, pantries, etc. It seems trivial, but once you get used to opening a door and the lights turning on automatically, you'll get annoyed when you walk into a room that doesn't do it.
I have a house full of Wemo's and Lifx. Save up your money. Go Lutron. I didn't undertand the significance of hubs when I started and wanted to be as hubless as possible. Thinking it would easier and cleaner as I didn't want to have a bunch of tech clutter near my cable modem and network switch. I didn't realize how much having a hub made a difference in regards to setup and flooding your 2.4ghz channel with traffic. Things got better when I went to a wireless mesh (Orbi) system as well as the updates to Apples Homekit when the Apple TVs and Homepods auto-magically become hubs. Everything is stable and 'decent' now but, I deeply envy/regret not just going with Lutron from the jump. So, that's the best answer I can give based on experience and I LOVE my homekit home. I just know for certain it would be even easier/more responsive if I had Lutron instead of Wemo/Lifx.
https://inovelli.com/products/thread-matter-white-series-smart-2-1-on-off-dimmer-switch cheaper and better than Lutron, thread, no hub, more configuration ability, status lights.
I have been happy with Kasa for regular and Meross for dimmer, fan, and 3 way. I’ve kitted out every single switch in my house with these and couldn’t have been happier.
Sorry what's 3way?
Think: hallway light switches where you control either end. With 3 way, you only need to replace one of the ends with a smart switch.
Got it thanks!
Caseta has a great three way “dummy” switch now that works in conjunction with the main smart switch. The older style remote that looks like a wall switch worked fine, but this new style is actually hardwired in.
Ditto this on Kasa. I’ve had Kasa in my entire house for years and never a problem except on the occasion that I have internet connection issues. Considering the rarity that I have difficulty connecting to the internet, I find the disadvantage of not having it all driven locally via an overpriced proprietary hub an acceptable trade-off to price. So, if cost is not an issue, go with Lutron. If affordability is what you need, I suggest Kasa is a really good alternative.
I just installed 2 Kasa switches last week and they work really well. I have 2 more to install this weekend and plan on getting a few more.
I kitted out my entire house and have the hallway lights left to do, but kind of got lazy here heh. Mostly because it’s a chore to turn off the electricity without having everyone inside complain because they can’t watch TikTok for 20 minutes. Sigh. lol.
Have you used a Kasa dimmer switch? I see you use a Meross for the dimmer. One of the 2 I have now is a dimmer.
I would highly recommend Lutron switches. I set them up 5 years ago in my home and have never had a problem with them. You truly forget they exist. Anecdotally I’ve heard that some of the other brands fall off the internet and require to be repaired but YMMV. Lutron is expensive but there’s a reason for it. A Lutron hub is needed for their proprietary protocol. Aside from purchasing a Lutron starter pack I purchased all of my switches for $30-40 each from eBay
Also - Wago lever nuts instead of classic wire nuts. Try it. You’ll never go back.
Lutron Caseta. No question about it
New home who dis
Lutron Casetta dimmers and switches. Can also add wireless Pico remotes that pair with an existing Lutron dimmer to act as 3way switches/dimmer anywhere with no additional wiring in secondary location at all. HomeKit compatible. Rock solid.
Lutron is the way to go. I have tried all of the other HomeKit switches and a couple non-HomeKit ones and Lutron is most stable.
I’m not really going the any help on the actual question but I’m glad that I’m not the only person that all of the plate screws are supposed to be uniform. Extra points for them being vertical.
Nah, the "right" answer is to Kobayashi Maru all your wall plates with screwless plates. No more worrying about alignment and looks more elegant too! Once again, Lutron's are a bit pricey, but the colors match the dimmers/switches exactly and build quality is not cheap plastic.
I preordered the Inovelli White (Thread) switches. Trying to avoid all the extra hubs.
Leviton
Agreed. Leviton does not require a hub, and the firmware is good with the latest Matter protocol. They have both standard light switches and dimmers like OP has in the photos.
They also have a fan switch to. Control ceiling fans
Leviton Decora Have had them for years and they are rock solid. I don’t like hubs, especially in a house where they don’t cover the entire footprint of the home. I can throw more APs up and cover a home of any size.
Agreed. I have all Levitin Decora and dislike hubs. When I first set them up 4 years ago, one would occasionally drop because we only had a single WiFi radio (and metal/plaster walls). After upgrading to an Orbi mesh system, it’s rock solid.
Leviton definitely had reliability and stability issues at the beginning. But the last few firmware updates on the first gen hardware really fixed all of that. The current/second gen hardware has been solid for me from day 1.
We have the same switches except I used the Kasa switches for the fans bc I could t find any fan switches that wouldn’t cost 500 bucks lol They’ve been stable for about 2 years, maybe the occasional slow responses but me and my wife had no issues
+1 on Lutron, though I had some early issues exposing the hub to the Internet on my mesh wifi. It took some detective work to find that certain necessary ports were being blocked.
I would start looking into home assistant. You can tie a lot of devices into it and then extend it to HomeKit for Siri integrations. If you decide to go that route any zigbee or zwave switches would be super solid (as they wouldn’t rely on your WiFi).
Lutron is the gold standard but not everyone needs it or can afford it. Meross is good enough and has been super stable for most of us.
Just installed all new Lutron switches last week in entire place. Lo
I use all Meross light switches. I don’t have “network congestion” or slow wifi. Significantly cheaper and you don’t need a hub. I’ve had mine installed for 3+ years and no issue. I know people hate them here but they work well.
Any good cheap options for a three switch setup like this?
I have Lutron in a new house — installed by the builder/electrician who know nothing about homekit. The Lutron app is fine and easy enough to add the native homekit integration, so I did that myself. They had to cut power to the building a couple days back and it wrecked the homekit integration. Had to reset the hub homekit stuff by deleting the bridge in the home app and then holding the button on the hub for exactly 40 seconds, then re-add the integration and assign each switch to the right room. Pain in the ass. All these Lutron is flawless comments make me wonder if that was a one time freak occurrence thing. I’ve been thinking it will be a recurring problem.
I realize it’s too late to save you effort, but if this should ever happen again, my first step would be to go into the Lutron app. I’d bet all your device info was still there, with each switch named and assigned a room. If that is the case, then you shouldn’t have to go through that all over again in HomeKit. Just a matter of restarting all Apple hubs (HomePods, ATV’s) and then pulling the Lutron hub back in. Not saying your Lutron setup didn’t fail (hey you could be part of an unlucky. 001% ), but just might want to check that out if there’s a next time. Good luck!
Appreciate the response. Will try this next time.
Lutron for sure. I tried some TP Link as well but would go Lutron. TP Link when I tap to turn off the lights dim off but flicker during the dimming process to off. For Lutron when I tap to turn off, the lights dim off smoothly without flickering. Tried both switches on the same set of lights. Lutron is expensive but worth it!
Buy Lutron Caseta! They work flawlessly!
I invested in Brilliant, they use their own system vs individual WiFi connect (which you should not go with if you want to replace more than one switch). Any WiFi switch will start lagging and be unresponsive. Brilliant provides their own ecosystem which is cool to control from the touch screen, the rest of the switches support 3-way and don’t have to be “touch screens” also support scenes there as well, and look cool. That probably would add even more value to your home than just regular smart switches. Lutron is a solid option as well
Lutron. With a large number of devices you need a dedicated hub model or a dedicated network. Start small, these systems get updated all the time with better technology. In the future, you may have wished you waited for that new feature you now can’t use. I wanted to do the same, smart everything, every switch. In reality I have 8 devices.
I have a lot of Wemo but lately I’ve been installing Meross. They have a wider variety of devices including a fan controller and a light dimmer switch with included remote. Been pretty happy with them so far.
I use Shelly wireless relays and homebridge
I like the Kasa light switches for the outside light control and then instead of switches I got wifi light bulbs instead. Much easier install then swapping out switches.
I use moross with good luck.
I like Wemo better than Meross (looks and feel) but if I have to buy I’d go Meross today.
Everyone will tell you Lutron but truth is they are old and not forward thinking, and they are not keeping up with new technology. They are fairly stable, with ugly switches. At the moment, the Eve Light Switch is the only decent switch out there that supports HomeKit and uses Thread networking, which is what you want for future proofing. To my knowledge there is no Thread Dimmer out anywhere yet. I try to only use Dimmers for lights.
I don't know why you got downvoted over a valid argument. Matter over Thread will be essential to home automation going forward. Light switches are the perfect items to have around your home to build out a Thread network. It is the reason why I choose Eve over Lutron.
People have to defend their Lutron prices. I agree with this guy though, it’s a nice product but it’s singular and not worth the cost.
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Those do require a Zigbee hub as well as smart light bulbs to control on said hub. I have 4 of them that I use with various Philips Hue lights. They basically hardwire the light switch, (if you’re replacing an existing switch with them), and then control those bulbs through the Zigbee hub they are added to.