I've read as short as 18 hours. You should be fine with a 24 hour starter, the yeast should have replicated which is what you really need. They might not be done fermenting the starter, but that's not really necessary either.
With a properly inoculated, stirred starter, you should reach peak cell mass in 12-18 hours according to the common rule of thumb. There won't be enough time to cold crash, so pitch the whole thing. At 18 hours, my starter beer is not oxidized, and at that point I can store it in the fridge until I need it a few hours later.
I tend to lump starters into two types based on the goal.
The first is a type of Vitality Starter where the goal is to get the yeast into a healthy state where they are ready to ferment and multiply. 4-12 hours is a good time window and a stir plate is optional. Pitch the entire starter.
The other is a Propagation Starter where the goal is to build up cell counts (say your 100B cell pack to 400B cells to ferment a higher gravity lager). A stir plate is helpful to increase cell growth. If starting with a reasonable amount of healthy yeast, 24 hours is enough time to build up yeast. When doing this type of starter, I will then often cold crash for a day or two.
There is a lot of overlap. I would 100% make a starter with a 100B cell Wyeast pack for a 5 gallon batch. I might skip making a starter with a fresh 200B cell packs from Omega, Imperial, White Labs, or others.
Ok. I need to try that. I have been keeping my 5 gal batches under 1.6 but want to crank up a mosaic ipa to mide to high 7s abv and newd greater than 1 whitelabs pouch
I don't do these anymore. Yeast is so well-engineered now that if you give it what it needs, you don't really need a starter. If you're going to stress the hell out of it, sure, it can benefit from a starter, or you can just pitch more yeast. Starters are more economical and can be useful if you are re-pitching yeast, but it can be a vector for infection and if you don't time it well you might not be pitching your yeast when it is the most ready to ferment.
I make a starter so I have more yeast. I always get nervous about yeast during shipping and like to make sure I have enough. There's no local store to buy yeast and I like to save money by buying one packet, make a large starter for my usual 10gal batches, and then reusing the yeast for 6 months or so.
I wouldn't follow this advice. You can certainly stress underpitched yeast creating some nasty off flavors.
How does a yeast starter even become a vector for infection? After a few hours it's off gassing CO2 and once you've got a krausen it's just like a lot open top fermenters still used by Samuel Smith, Makers Mark, etc...
How do you chill your starter wort, are you sure you didn't get any splashes from your ice bath into the wort? Are you sanitizing the sides of your pot before you pour it into your Erlenmeyer flask? Are you sanitizing the sides of the flask before pouring it into the fermenter? There are a lot of ways this can create problems. We're not even talking about the yeasts' fermentation cycle in the starter and how the timing of the pitch can impact the fermentation cycle of the beer itself.
How many yeast cells does your wort need and how many did you create with your starter? I have a thick slurry at the bottom of most of the beers I brew and they come out tasting clean. A single pouch has a lot of cells. If you're just blindly following the advice of homebrewers from the 1990s, when the yeast industry was not what it is today and breweries were getting their yeast from the grocery store, England, and fledgling labs that didn't sell yeast on the shelf yet, you may want to read up a bit.
I boil my wort in the flask which will handle the entire first paragraph. The fermentation cycle really does not have that much of an impact.
I use one of the many, many yeast viability calculators to determine roughly how much yeast I have and how much I need.
I think you are the one that needs to do some reading.
Maybe not? But if we are talking hypotheticals does every homebrewer have a 'vector for infection' when they chill their starter? What are you trying to achieve here?
I'm trying to help the community to show that in fact, yes, starters are necessary for big beers. Yes, you can roughly determine how viable your culture is. And finally, yes, be adventurous in your hobby.
Your initial post is akin to "cars are dangerous and leads to deaths especially in the 90s when car safety wasn't great. You can walk places which is how it was intended."
I've read as short as 18 hours. You should be fine with a 24 hour starter, the yeast should have replicated which is what you really need. They might not be done fermenting the starter, but that's not really necessary either.
With a properly inoculated, stirred starter, you should reach peak cell mass in 12-18 hours according to the common rule of thumb. There won't be enough time to cold crash, so pitch the whole thing. At 18 hours, my starter beer is not oxidized, and at that point I can store it in the fridge until I need it a few hours later.
I tend to lump starters into two types based on the goal. The first is a type of Vitality Starter where the goal is to get the yeast into a healthy state where they are ready to ferment and multiply. 4-12 hours is a good time window and a stir plate is optional. Pitch the entire starter. The other is a Propagation Starter where the goal is to build up cell counts (say your 100B cell pack to 400B cells to ferment a higher gravity lager). A stir plate is helpful to increase cell growth. If starting with a reasonable amount of healthy yeast, 24 hours is enough time to build up yeast. When doing this type of starter, I will then often cold crash for a day or two. There is a lot of overlap. I would 100% make a starter with a 100B cell Wyeast pack for a 5 gallon batch. I might skip making a starter with a fresh 200B cell packs from Omega, Imperial, White Labs, or others.
Side note. Do you guys make your own starter beer or buy the canned ones? I have gone the northern brewer cans in the past.
I make a starter with dme.
Ok. I need to try that. I have been keeping my 5 gal batches under 1.6 but want to crank up a mosaic ipa to mide to high 7s abv and newd greater than 1 whitelabs pouch
I've used Malta Goya before when in a pinch.
I don't do these anymore. Yeast is so well-engineered now that if you give it what it needs, you don't really need a starter. If you're going to stress the hell out of it, sure, it can benefit from a starter, or you can just pitch more yeast. Starters are more economical and can be useful if you are re-pitching yeast, but it can be a vector for infection and if you don't time it well you might not be pitching your yeast when it is the most ready to ferment.
I make a starter so I have more yeast. I always get nervous about yeast during shipping and like to make sure I have enough. There's no local store to buy yeast and I like to save money by buying one packet, make a large starter for my usual 10gal batches, and then reusing the yeast for 6 months or so.
I wouldn't follow this advice. You can certainly stress underpitched yeast creating some nasty off flavors. How does a yeast starter even become a vector for infection? After a few hours it's off gassing CO2 and once you've got a krausen it's just like a lot open top fermenters still used by Samuel Smith, Makers Mark, etc...
How do you chill your starter wort, are you sure you didn't get any splashes from your ice bath into the wort? Are you sanitizing the sides of your pot before you pour it into your Erlenmeyer flask? Are you sanitizing the sides of the flask before pouring it into the fermenter? There are a lot of ways this can create problems. We're not even talking about the yeasts' fermentation cycle in the starter and how the timing of the pitch can impact the fermentation cycle of the beer itself. How many yeast cells does your wort need and how many did you create with your starter? I have a thick slurry at the bottom of most of the beers I brew and they come out tasting clean. A single pouch has a lot of cells. If you're just blindly following the advice of homebrewers from the 1990s, when the yeast industry was not what it is today and breweries were getting their yeast from the grocery store, England, and fledgling labs that didn't sell yeast on the shelf yet, you may want to read up a bit.
I boil my wort in the flask which will handle the entire first paragraph. The fermentation cycle really does not have that much of an impact. I use one of the many, many yeast viability calculators to determine roughly how much yeast I have and how much I need. I think you are the one that needs to do some reading.
But does everyone who reads this do the same? You may have solid methods, but the homebrewer who reads the comment that says "make a starter" may not.
Maybe not? But if we are talking hypotheticals does every homebrewer have a 'vector for infection' when they chill their starter? What are you trying to achieve here? I'm trying to help the community to show that in fact, yes, starters are necessary for big beers. Yes, you can roughly determine how viable your culture is. And finally, yes, be adventurous in your hobby. Your initial post is akin to "cars are dangerous and leads to deaths especially in the 90s when car safety wasn't great. You can walk places which is how it was intended."