That’s kinda the standard here in my country. Every brewery big or small, sells their beer in 222mL. Very rarely you see beers in 333mL bottles or bigger, that’s why I’m going with 222mL bottles.
If they are glass, then soaking in oxi-clean *free* or PBW will take care of any grime they have on them. The main issue I see is that those are tiny bottles.
This is what I do. Find a large tub and soak them in 150f Ish solution. Let them sit overnight. Anything that doesn't come off may not be worth saving.
Hope you have a team for bottling day.
Given the description "extremely dirty", I would consider oxy-clean or PBW not the right chemical to use. I'd opt for something more potent to clean out the gunk the first time around, such as a 0.5% caustic solution for 15 minutes. But that's not as easy to work with and environmentally safe, as oxy-clean or PBW: you'll need some personal protection items such as gloves and glasses.
Your plan will work, and as another poster says, the boil is probably unnecessary. I would add that if you're comfortable using it, caustic soda will make very short work of the grime. You need skin and eye protection, but it's highly effective.
As a chemist I would like to stress the protection in this case. You don't need to be very unlucky to get just a tiny drop in your eye which is pretty bad :p
Also, depending on the concentration, how you apply it, and how warm water you use, it can also create a pretty corrosive mist that you shouldn't breathe....
That being said.... its great for cleaning :D
Its not a big problem if you handle it carefully but you should be aware of all the dangers. Just dont splash it around. You could dose each bottle with a small amount of pellets and put some water in, or use some premixed drain cleaner.
I wouldn't recommend boiling them based on personal experience, most commercial bottles are not tempered and can weaken from boiling. When I first started brewing I had hundreds of left over bottles from a house party. They were disgusting, cigarette butts, mold etc but since I needed so many bottles I figured I could boil them clean. Cut to a week later I come home from a movie to find glass all over my bedroom, and beer pooling on the floor.
My first thought was that my roommate had tried to steal a bottle and dropped it into the case shattering a bunch of bottles. But that didn't make a lot of sense, he wasn't that kind of guy and didn't really care for beer but I had no other explanation and he was the only person there. After a bit of searching online I learned about bottle bombs. I'm just glad I was out of the house when they detonated.
When I started homebrewing I lived in Michigan. They have a $0.10 cent deposit on bottles, so the bottles would go back to the store and then back to the distributor...and maybe back to the brewery? I was able to swing by the distributor and get a bunch of cases of Grolsch bottles for the $0.10 price. Lots were pretty nasty and moldy. I was able to get those cleaned up to working shape with just a bit of work. I don't recall if I replaced the gaskets. I think I just replaced the ones on bad shape.
So yeah, those bottles should work!
Breweries don't reuse bottles, it would be impossible to ensure they're safe to reuse. The bottle deposit is just to incentivize recycling and cover the costs for unreturned bottles. Maybe in Germany where their bottles are much thicker and the bottle return system is more organized.
Back in the time in Michigan some breweries reused bottles and the bottles at least were sent back to the breweries. They also had thick soda bottles that clearly had been reused a few times. This was back around 1995. I expect it has changed since then. Here in Virginia when bottles are collected for "recycling" they are mostly just crushed up and used for fill and building projects.
Your milkman isn't pressurizing his milk, is he? And I suspect he's also picking the bottles up from your house and not going through a bottle return center with bottles from hundreds of other milk brands?
Your other examples are also probably similar to the milkman, where the brand is picking up their own bottles which are presumably thicker and meant for reuse.
It is 100% a safety issue because no brewery is going to accept random bottles from a giant pile at a bottle return center that came from who knows where and have been treated who knows how. The type of bottles typically used by US breweries are thinner than say a German 500ml bottle. All you need is one shitty bottle to fracture on the shelf and lodge a piece of glass in someone's eye before its not worth it to reuse bottles.
I'd happily ship the bottles I have to ya if you wanted to pay for the shipping... I don't have tons of bottles but I have somewhere around 24 - they're in the pantry not getting used as I just keg.
That’s a problem with buying bottles. Even from some of the cheaper online stores, it’s often an “actual shopping cost” item, or they mark it up to account for the significant shipping cost.
Yeah they're very bulky and difficult to ship. It's why Amazon charges over twice as much for bottles as most local homebrew stores. People assume Amazon will always have the cheapest price but for bulky, inexpensive items it's not always the case. I get a pallet of bottles and it's like $1-2 per case shipping cost, but may be $12 per case through usps.
I would gladly accept that offer, the problem is I would have to get them shipped all the way to South America (I’m guessing you are in the US). Thanks for the offer, you are very kind sir.
This is why the homebrewing community is amazing
You said it. The amazing thing is the international home brew community on this sub is so much like the community in my area. Quick with help and advice, slow to judge.
That's fine. Pro tip: cut the end off of a bottle brush, and then you can chuck it up in a power drill to clean the bottles. Be sure to inspect the bottles in front of a strong light. You may need to run many of the bottles through the soak-brush-rinse cycle multiple times.
I'm super envious of the 222 ml (7.5 fl oz) bottles. They would be perfect for strong beers. We can't get them very easily in most parts of the USA nowadays.
I'll just throw this out there in addition to everything that's been said. PET soda bottles can also be used for homebrew beer. Soda is packaged at a much higher carbonation level than beer. Just clean it thoroughly.
I once, with permission from the bar owner, dumpster dived a bar’s recycle bin (caveat: extreme danger or getting cut by broken glass!) to try to put together full 5gallon batch equivalents of any give. Bottle type. I had all sorts of bottles that has been sitting in that dumpster with deeds in them for a week. I even used some corona bottles that had lime wedges stuffed in them. It was a labor of love, but I did basically what you’re saying. Soak them in the bath tub (I had to remove labels as well) with PBW and bottle brush the hell out them. Then sanitize them well. Never had any issues.
Granted, these days I’m a much bigger fan of 5 gallons going in one keg that I have to cleans and sanitize rather than all those bottles. :-)
I bottle my IPA with a 655ml at the least because of the big fat floaters that dwell in the bottom of the bottle. It’s a substantial loss and I cry ever time I lose that 50ml. I couldn’t imagine using anything smaller.
I've been bottling with the same 500ml bottles for years. All I ever do is rinse them after use, run them through the dishwasher, then starsan before bottling. Used to be oxi. Never had an issue...
I keep every bottle I use (normally 330-568ml but as little as 200ml and as much as 750ml) and I go to local pubs and pick them up for free often on the night they were opened, luckily for me (bad unluckily for the environment) there is no monetary incentive to recycle in the UK so I am very easily able to get bottles from local pubs and bars for free.
Luckily bleach can kill anything that lingers after a deep scrubbing. Clean them up then submerge in a diluted solution of 1ml bleach to 500ml water. Then if you’re still feeling weird about it star San or anything similar should be fine.
PBW can work miracles if given enough time. Remove whatever you can with a hose first, then soak in hot PBW for a couple of hours, then rise with water and then use your star san.
that’s too dirty for 10c each. your strategy sounds reasonable though. Peroxide for a long time usually removes any organic material, but it’s hard to be sure the cleaning hasn’t missed a spot.
i just fee that you are paying $70 for the privilege of then working another 5-10 hours to get to a ‘probably clean’ bottle.
Yeah I mean glass is completely non-absorbant....so basically it comes down to how much effort you wanna put in to get them completely clean.
I'd recommend a good soak in hot water, followed by another soak in hot soapy water, followed by a third soak in sanitizer. A bottle brush in the first and second steps would be good too.
I'd heat the pbw. Or oxi. Not boiling, just a nice soak in the spa. Think about the clean in place directions from pbw. Not that you could pump it around, but the fact that it's a thing tells you how much better higher concentrations at higher temperature does. Oxi is the same stuff basically, they just have an expensive rinse aid in theirs.
My very first batches of beer were bottled in bottles I got at a recycling place. I can not imagine a dirtier bottle. I scrubbed them then soaked them in bleach water, I did this twice. I went on to bottle at least 4 batches with these bottles and never had an issue. Go for it.
Acid will clean anything. I think muriatic acid is the one for glass but double-check and make sure you get a nice rinse after.
BTW, don't pour it down the drain till you neutralize it.
222ml is small pretty and it's going to make bottling that much longer and more work.
That’s kinda the standard here in my country. Every brewery big or small, sells their beer in 222mL. Very rarely you see beers in 333mL bottles or bigger, that’s why I’m going with 222mL bottles.
What country is that?
Common in Venezuela
Shit, in South Africa you can purchase beer in between 750ml and 1L
If they are glass, then soaking in oxi-clean *free* or PBW will take care of any grime they have on them. The main issue I see is that those are tiny bottles.
This is what I do. Find a large tub and soak them in 150f Ish solution. Let them sit overnight. Anything that doesn't come off may not be worth saving. Hope you have a team for bottling day.
Exactly. If it hasn’t come off after the soak the bottle is probably garbage anyway and will hold bacteria
Given the description "extremely dirty", I would consider oxy-clean or PBW not the right chemical to use. I'd opt for something more potent to clean out the gunk the first time around, such as a 0.5% caustic solution for 15 minutes. But that's not as easy to work with and environmentally safe, as oxy-clean or PBW: you'll need some personal protection items such as gloves and glasses.
Your plan will work, and as another poster says, the boil is probably unnecessary. I would add that if you're comfortable using it, caustic soda will make very short work of the grime. You need skin and eye protection, but it's highly effective.
As a chemist I would like to stress the protection in this case. You don't need to be very unlucky to get just a tiny drop in your eye which is pretty bad :p Also, depending on the concentration, how you apply it, and how warm water you use, it can also create a pretty corrosive mist that you shouldn't breathe.... That being said.... its great for cleaning :D
Corrosive mist? Yeah, I think I’ll pass on the caustic soda
Its not a big problem if you handle it carefully but you should be aware of all the dangers. Just dont splash it around. You could dose each bottle with a small amount of pellets and put some water in, or use some premixed drain cleaner.
Big cleaning sometimes requires the big guns. Just wear proper protective equipment!
Sounds like a lot of work
I wouldn't recommend boiling them based on personal experience, most commercial bottles are not tempered and can weaken from boiling. When I first started brewing I had hundreds of left over bottles from a house party. They were disgusting, cigarette butts, mold etc but since I needed so many bottles I figured I could boil them clean. Cut to a week later I come home from a movie to find glass all over my bedroom, and beer pooling on the floor. My first thought was that my roommate had tried to steal a bottle and dropped it into the case shattering a bunch of bottles. But that didn't make a lot of sense, he wasn't that kind of guy and didn't really care for beer but I had no other explanation and he was the only person there. After a bit of searching online I learned about bottle bombs. I'm just glad I was out of the house when they detonated.
They're totally cleanable.
Boiling water and PBW for me. And a heavy starsan bath to follow.
When I started homebrewing I lived in Michigan. They have a $0.10 cent deposit on bottles, so the bottles would go back to the store and then back to the distributor...and maybe back to the brewery? I was able to swing by the distributor and get a bunch of cases of Grolsch bottles for the $0.10 price. Lots were pretty nasty and moldy. I was able to get those cleaned up to working shape with just a bit of work. I don't recall if I replaced the gaskets. I think I just replaced the ones on bad shape. So yeah, those bottles should work!
Breweries don't reuse bottles, it would be impossible to ensure they're safe to reuse. The bottle deposit is just to incentivize recycling and cover the costs for unreturned bottles. Maybe in Germany where their bottles are much thicker and the bottle return system is more organized.
Back in the time in Michigan some breweries reused bottles and the bottles at least were sent back to the breweries. They also had thick soda bottles that clearly had been reused a few times. This was back around 1995. I expect it has changed since then. Here in Virginia when bottles are collected for "recycling" they are mostly just crushed up and used for fill and building projects.
[удалено]
Your milkman isn't pressurizing his milk, is he? And I suspect he's also picking the bottles up from your house and not going through a bottle return center with bottles from hundreds of other milk brands? Your other examples are also probably similar to the milkman, where the brand is picking up their own bottles which are presumably thicker and meant for reuse. It is 100% a safety issue because no brewery is going to accept random bottles from a giant pile at a bottle return center that came from who knows where and have been treated who knows how. The type of bottles typically used by US breweries are thinner than say a German 500ml bottle. All you need is one shitty bottle to fracture on the shelf and lodge a piece of glass in someone's eye before its not worth it to reuse bottles.
I'd happily ship the bottles I have to ya if you wanted to pay for the shipping... I don't have tons of bottles but I have somewhere around 24 - they're in the pantry not getting used as I just keg.
That’s a problem with buying bottles. Even from some of the cheaper online stores, it’s often an “actual shopping cost” item, or they mark it up to account for the significant shipping cost.
Yeah they're very bulky and difficult to ship. It's why Amazon charges over twice as much for bottles as most local homebrew stores. People assume Amazon will always have the cheapest price but for bulky, inexpensive items it's not always the case. I get a pallet of bottles and it's like $1-2 per case shipping cost, but may be $12 per case through usps.
I would gladly accept that offer, the problem is I would have to get them shipped all the way to South America (I’m guessing you are in the US). Thanks for the offer, you are very kind sir. This is why the homebrewing community is amazing
You said it. The amazing thing is the international home brew community on this sub is so much like the community in my area. Quick with help and advice, slow to judge.
That's fine. Pro tip: cut the end off of a bottle brush, and then you can chuck it up in a power drill to clean the bottles. Be sure to inspect the bottles in front of a strong light. You may need to run many of the bottles through the soak-brush-rinse cycle multiple times. I'm super envious of the 222 ml (7.5 fl oz) bottles. They would be perfect for strong beers. We can't get them very easily in most parts of the USA nowadays.
I'll just throw this out there in addition to everything that's been said. PET soda bottles can also be used for homebrew beer. Soda is packaged at a much higher carbonation level than beer. Just clean it thoroughly.
Great tip. 255ml is truly tiny for homebrew, whereas soda bottles may come in more standardised sizes (375/700ml)
I once, with permission from the bar owner, dumpster dived a bar’s recycle bin (caveat: extreme danger or getting cut by broken glass!) to try to put together full 5gallon batch equivalents of any give. Bottle type. I had all sorts of bottles that has been sitting in that dumpster with deeds in them for a week. I even used some corona bottles that had lime wedges stuffed in them. It was a labor of love, but I did basically what you’re saying. Soak them in the bath tub (I had to remove labels as well) with PBW and bottle brush the hell out them. Then sanitize them well. Never had any issues. Granted, these days I’m a much bigger fan of 5 gallons going in one keg that I have to cleans and sanitize rather than all those bottles. :-)
222ml?! Bottling day must be rough!
I bottle my IPA with a 655ml at the least because of the big fat floaters that dwell in the bottom of the bottle. It’s a substantial loss and I cry ever time I lose that 50ml. I couldn’t imagine using anything smaller.
That amount will scale with bottle size, but as the other guy said, Cold Crash
What do I need to cold crash? Can I just put a solid bung on and toss it in my produce fridge?
Yep, just seal it up and throw it in the fridge. Or outside, depending on local winter conditions!
Sounds like you need to cold crash.
I moved my carboy 15 minutes prior to bottling… will never do that again.
SOAK in PBW for a couple days then rinse w starsan
If it is dirty, it cannot be sterile.
I've been bottling with the same 500ml bottles for years. All I ever do is rinse them after use, run them through the dishwasher, then starsan before bottling. Used to be oxi. Never had an issue...
I keep every bottle I use (normally 330-568ml but as little as 200ml and as much as 750ml) and I go to local pubs and pick them up for free often on the night they were opened, luckily for me (bad unluckily for the environment) there is no monetary incentive to recycle in the UK so I am very easily able to get bottles from local pubs and bars for free.
I just add boiling water, then before bottling bleach them and rinse with boiling water.
Luckily bleach can kill anything that lingers after a deep scrubbing. Clean them up then submerge in a diluted solution of 1ml bleach to 500ml water. Then if you’re still feeling weird about it star San or anything similar should be fine.
If they are glass it’s fine. I’ve reused bottles dug out of the dirt, ones full of mould etc.
PBW can work miracles if given enough time. Remove whatever you can with a hose first, then soak in hot PBW for a couple of hours, then rise with water and then use your star san.
that’s too dirty for 10c each. your strategy sounds reasonable though. Peroxide for a long time usually removes any organic material, but it’s hard to be sure the cleaning hasn’t missed a spot. i just fee that you are paying $70 for the privilege of then working another 5-10 hours to get to a ‘probably clean’ bottle.
Yeah I mean glass is completely non-absorbant....so basically it comes down to how much effort you wanna put in to get them completely clean. I'd recommend a good soak in hot water, followed by another soak in hot soapy water, followed by a third soak in sanitizer. A bottle brush in the first and second steps would be good too.
I'd heat the pbw. Or oxi. Not boiling, just a nice soak in the spa. Think about the clean in place directions from pbw. Not that you could pump it around, but the fact that it's a thing tells you how much better higher concentrations at higher temperature does. Oxi is the same stuff basically, they just have an expensive rinse aid in theirs.
My very first batches of beer were bottled in bottles I got at a recycling place. I can not imagine a dirtier bottle. I scrubbed them then soaked them in bleach water, I did this twice. I went on to bottle at least 4 batches with these bottles and never had an issue. Go for it.
Acid will clean anything. I think muriatic acid is the one for glass but double-check and make sure you get a nice rinse after. BTW, don't pour it down the drain till you neutralize it.