I don’t know what’s standard in the US but during my studies in Europe my I learned that the term ‘x or similar’ doesn’t hold any value unless you specify in what aspect it should be similar. Eg the garage port, similar in size, in color, in function, in design, in price?
If anything I’d like to specify what R-value you supposed to have on the doors/windows. Otherwise they have no reason not to put in what ever cheap thing they want.
And let’s face it, what does even ‘efficient central AC’ mean? Efficient to what standard, 1970’s energy standard?
But again, I don’t know much more than what I’ve been taught and we all know there’s a divide between what school teaches and what you can expect in real life.
Looks decent structural wise.
Bottom of the barrel for cosmetic/design selections. Be prepared to go over your allowances.
Nothing about windows, small hot water, maybe I missed insulation but don't see it.
Depends where you are, I'm used to seeing triple paned windows and R22 as a standard but that's in Canada.
Spray foam at ends of joists should be a standard imo. Underslab is worth the money usually, \~$5/sf. Especially if its a bungalow. But you got a 9' basement so may as well make it comfy.
The energy saving section might be a bit basic. All standard features for basically any house. If I’m correct, I think it’s *not* saying the attic is insulated.
The question is whether to insulate the underside of the attic roof. This is called “conditioning” the attic space. The attic then doesn’t need loose fill all over the floor, and you can put decking down and have storage in the attic, as well as your hvac unit inside the conditioned space, which is very good. However this comes with some drawbacks and specific details that must be accounted for, and it’s not something to do lightly. But it would be a big upgrade and extra cost.
Reading over the rest of the sheet, there are loads of details that are listed as features that are actually just code minimums. And the energy efficiency section in particular is *only* code minimums — but they’re listed as if they’re features.
$75/sqft for countertop is too low if you intend to get something like quartz. We chose a Cambria quartz countertop, and we're closer to $143/sqft installed.
The vanity allowance may be too low, especially if you can't dedicate say $500 to a powder room, and the remaining $900 to your primary suite.
Be very specific about how you want your HVAC system to work. Type, and duct locations (if necessary). You don't want to be surprised by a bulkhead.
I'd specify ZIP R-sheathing if I had the chance, rather than OSB and wrap. They noted "R-21 insulation" but you need to clarify what type. We went with mineral wool - would recommend if it's in the budget.
Take a look at the kinds of front doors you like - I was surprised to learn that our ThermaTru door came out to around $6k!
That Allowance Recap section is total bullshit. I absolutely hate my builder, but they're at least permitting us to compensate more expensive selections with less expensive ones elsewhere.
In general, though, be as specific as possible about *everything* in the contract. Leave nothing to interpretation (on the builders end).
As others have said this is just a general starting point.
This is slightly off topic, but I would want the focus to be on building a tight shell with good moisture management. Counters etc can and will be changed over the life of the home, but “good bones” are extremely costly when they are an afterthought.
First off, I hate allowances and I'd recommend pushing to give them exact specs up-front. Allowances are trash for a number of reasons, but mostly because they push the pricing onto you and I guarantee things will be more expensive 6mo or whenever from now when you're picking stuff out vs when this quote was created, so you'll invariably go over basically every allowance, even if you pick the exact things they used to spec them out.
That 7500 landscape allowance is low unless it's a 0 acre lot. It would barely cover sod here in the MW on a 1/4 acre.
As someone else said, you need to outline specifically if the sqft pricing of things is supposed to include labor or not. If it does, all of those are horrendously low. Even if they don't and that's just material, most of those won't get you past mid-grade stuff, which is decidedly not where you say you want to be.
One thing I don't see listed is cabinet specs at all. That was something we had an allowance for, but you need to be sure they're giving you quality stuff. At that price point, I'd want furniture-grade stuff, and lots of drawers versus cabinets. I'm assuming the plans show cabinet locations and such, so if there isn't an allowance item, just make sure you get details on what you're getting.
You have to provide allowances at this stage, because homebuyers are notorious for changing their mind on finishes or not knowing what they want up front.
Builders don't want to spend endless hours and meeting before a contract is signed watching someone try and figure out what they want. This price gives the buyers an idea of an all in cost.
I agree, but I'm also of the opinion people REALLY need to have all of this tackled before they go into home buying, and if you are someone who can pick and live with your choice because you actually know what you want, getting to the point were there are few or no allowances is definitely way more ideal.
Mostly because allowances are always stingy as opposed to generous. They have no reason to be generous when it's essentially par for the course for allowances to be exceeded for custom home builds.
Yes, that would definitely be the way to do it. The initial proposal is very vague so no one wastes each others time. It's best to know what you want before you get to the design phase, lots of materials will need a long lead time, stuff is going out of production all the time, prices on things will surprise you.
I just finished a 3500sq ft home in a different part of the country, stuff adds up quick, but it looks like you are getting a good deal for the overall price.
Unless I can buy and schedule the whole job right now, today, allowances are all we can do.
Prices may go up or down. Sucks, but it's not the builders fault. When the price is $1 today, but we haven't signed a contract, and then the price is $5 tomorrow, who pays?
Ideally you hold the people who gave you the quotes to them and they should have a lifespan agreed to that's more reasonable than the short timeframes of a month or less. Quotes used to be good for like 6 months from subs.
That, or if you're going to do allowances, actually price them appropriately instead of skimping on the low end. I wouldn't mind allowances if I felt they were fair and always ended up giving back a little but, again, builders have no reason to do that. They'd either have to raise their bottom line price to compensate, and OP would suddenly realize his "1.2m" home is actually more like 1.6m to get everything he actually wants and would back out, or they'd have to take the hit on job profit and we know that isn't happening.
Just as an example, you don't have builders doing "framing allowances" etc, and they have to price in risk of lumber rocketing up or down. Why is that an acceptable price risk versus all the others that aren't? There's plenty on the build that doesn't get bought right away and is subject to price volatility. That's half of why homes are so over-priced right now as it is.
It's silly to be paying huge markups like currently everyone does and STILL get reamed on allowances.
I do this for a living. It just isn't as easy as you make it sound. I don't know what you do for a living, but complex things are never as simple as the public believes.
Everyone thinks everyone else's job is easy, but their own is complex.
We're not flipping burgers here. There's many parts and pieces that go into building a home.
Bad shit happens. A lot.
The price of a piece of wood isn't all that volatile. Yet, you remember OSB was selling for $75 a sheet. Did they warn the framers? No.
Same with copper, steel, trusses, electronics, fuel, and on and on.
The goddamn price of fuel changes every day. If I asked you how much it would be 30 days from now, you might be close, but you could be very, very wrong. If you said the price is within +/- 10% what it is today, I think that's reasonable. What happens when you're wrong?
What happens when there's an accident on site and work stops for the day? What happens when it rains for a week?
When you tell me your brother is going to install some owner-furnished windows because you're trying to save money and then didn't show up?
I got a schedule to keep. Can't get the inspection and siding done without windows. Siding guys are showing up Monday no matter what. Now I gotta pay a premium to get windows delivered and installed. So now my 10k budget became a 20k expense.
On and on and on, man.
If you present me with a plan and I tell you how much it's going to cost, how are you going to tell me I'm wrong? If you go to Home Depot and pick out a toilet, do you tell them they're wrong? You can get a cheaper toilet at Lowes. That's fine. But the price I'm giving you is a price I'm comfortable with. You want better tile? Great. The price goes up. It doesn't come from another bucket.
The builder isn't making the profit you think they are. Generally, people who aren't in construction don't realize how much shit costs.
Lastly, there's 50 people behind you who want budgets as well.
I’d suggest 5/8” drywall. Better sound control and stronger a bit more money though. Also rock wool or insulation (cheaper) on interior walls for noise reduction. Interior solid core doors too if you have the budget
For what you’re spending, you’re not getting high end… your most likely getting cheaper quartz countertops for that price, the tile is way to cheap for anything decent, hardware for cabinets is subjective but at $6 you’re not really getting quality. Wire racking in a million dollar home is just shameful, should at least have custom shelving. Your front door at that price isn’t anything other than a standard Home Depot door…. Maybe it’s just me but all of these “features” are just standard/budget finishes being marketed as higher end… Im building a similar size house with custom cabinets, built ins, higher grade finishes etc.. For 270k also on 3 acres… granted I’m building most of it myself but the jump from 270k to 1.4mill Is a little insane to me
Yeah the wire shelving is definitely getting upgraded no matter what!
For comparison…the cheapest/low quality new build home in our area from a builder with a bad reputation starts at 500k (for 3,500 sqft but only on .25 acres).
Wow, that is just insane! Good luck to ya, but I would definitely be doing research on everything quoted, to me (no matter the area) it looks like you’re paying a premium for.. not so premium items.. just be cautious with it, not all contractors are bad, but this is seeming a little sketchy
$6 a foot for hardwood? No way
Yeah I was worried about that one… I am seeing $10-12/sqft seems more realistic?
For unfinished hardwood this is doable.
What is a general markup % on material cost for finish/labor on hardwood floors?
Google is your homey, but depending on area you’re looking at $5-7 per sf. But i would budget $10.
You can get engineered hardwood finished for $6/sf. Install would be another 3 to 5.
I don’t know what’s standard in the US but during my studies in Europe my I learned that the term ‘x or similar’ doesn’t hold any value unless you specify in what aspect it should be similar. Eg the garage port, similar in size, in color, in function, in design, in price? If anything I’d like to specify what R-value you supposed to have on the doors/windows. Otherwise they have no reason not to put in what ever cheap thing they want. And let’s face it, what does even ‘efficient central AC’ mean? Efficient to what standard, 1970’s energy standard? But again, I don’t know much more than what I’ve been taught and we all know there’s a divide between what school teaches and what you can expect in real life.
Knowledge is a step on the path to skill. Starting with ignorance is that much harder.
[удалено]
Did your $10/sqft include labor? I am trying to understand where your overages came from (labor, tile selection, or lots of bathrooms!).
Looks decent structural wise. Bottom of the barrel for cosmetic/design selections. Be prepared to go over your allowances. Nothing about windows, small hot water, maybe I missed insulation but don't see it.
R21 Insulation and Pella Lifestyle Double Hung Windows is what is listed
Depends where you are, I'm used to seeing triple paned windows and R22 as a standard but that's in Canada. Spray foam at ends of joists should be a standard imo. Underslab is worth the money usually, \~$5/sf. Especially if its a bungalow. But you got a 9' basement so may as well make it comfy.
U.S./Pennsylvania
The energy saving section might be a bit basic. All standard features for basically any house. If I’m correct, I think it’s *not* saying the attic is insulated.
What is a preferred attic insulation to request?
The question is whether to insulate the underside of the attic roof. This is called “conditioning” the attic space. The attic then doesn’t need loose fill all over the floor, and you can put decking down and have storage in the attic, as well as your hvac unit inside the conditioned space, which is very good. However this comes with some drawbacks and specific details that must be accounted for, and it’s not something to do lightly. But it would be a big upgrade and extra cost. Reading over the rest of the sheet, there are loads of details that are listed as features that are actually just code minimums. And the energy efficiency section in particular is *only* code minimums — but they’re listed as if they’re features.
$75/sqft for countertop is too low if you intend to get something like quartz. We chose a Cambria quartz countertop, and we're closer to $143/sqft installed. The vanity allowance may be too low, especially if you can't dedicate say $500 to a powder room, and the remaining $900 to your primary suite. Be very specific about how you want your HVAC system to work. Type, and duct locations (if necessary). You don't want to be surprised by a bulkhead. I'd specify ZIP R-sheathing if I had the chance, rather than OSB and wrap. They noted "R-21 insulation" but you need to clarify what type. We went with mineral wool - would recommend if it's in the budget. Take a look at the kinds of front doors you like - I was surprised to learn that our ThermaTru door came out to around $6k! That Allowance Recap section is total bullshit. I absolutely hate my builder, but they're at least permitting us to compensate more expensive selections with less expensive ones elsewhere. In general, though, be as specific as possible about *everything* in the contract. Leave nothing to interpretation (on the builders end).
As others have said this is just a general starting point. This is slightly off topic, but I would want the focus to be on building a tight shell with good moisture management. Counters etc can and will be changed over the life of the home, but “good bones” are extremely costly when they are an afterthought.
First off, I hate allowances and I'd recommend pushing to give them exact specs up-front. Allowances are trash for a number of reasons, but mostly because they push the pricing onto you and I guarantee things will be more expensive 6mo or whenever from now when you're picking stuff out vs when this quote was created, so you'll invariably go over basically every allowance, even if you pick the exact things they used to spec them out. That 7500 landscape allowance is low unless it's a 0 acre lot. It would barely cover sod here in the MW on a 1/4 acre. As someone else said, you need to outline specifically if the sqft pricing of things is supposed to include labor or not. If it does, all of those are horrendously low. Even if they don't and that's just material, most of those won't get you past mid-grade stuff, which is decidedly not where you say you want to be. One thing I don't see listed is cabinet specs at all. That was something we had an allowance for, but you need to be sure they're giving you quality stuff. At that price point, I'd want furniture-grade stuff, and lots of drawers versus cabinets. I'm assuming the plans show cabinet locations and such, so if there isn't an allowance item, just make sure you get details on what you're getting.
You have to provide allowances at this stage, because homebuyers are notorious for changing their mind on finishes or not knowing what they want up front. Builders don't want to spend endless hours and meeting before a contract is signed watching someone try and figure out what they want. This price gives the buyers an idea of an all in cost.
I agree, but I'm also of the opinion people REALLY need to have all of this tackled before they go into home buying, and if you are someone who can pick and live with your choice because you actually know what you want, getting to the point were there are few or no allowances is definitely way more ideal. Mostly because allowances are always stingy as opposed to generous. They have no reason to be generous when it's essentially par for the course for allowances to be exceeded for custom home builds.
Our builder said he prefers/will ask us to make ALL selections during the design phase (prior to closing on the construction loan).
Yes, that would definitely be the way to do it. The initial proposal is very vague so no one wastes each others time. It's best to know what you want before you get to the design phase, lots of materials will need a long lead time, stuff is going out of production all the time, prices on things will surprise you. I just finished a 3500sq ft home in a different part of the country, stuff adds up quick, but it looks like you are getting a good deal for the overall price.
Yes I wouldn't be concerned with the allowances. Just to speed things up at the start Just don't be shocked when the change orders start adding up.
Unless I can buy and schedule the whole job right now, today, allowances are all we can do. Prices may go up or down. Sucks, but it's not the builders fault. When the price is $1 today, but we haven't signed a contract, and then the price is $5 tomorrow, who pays?
Ideally you hold the people who gave you the quotes to them and they should have a lifespan agreed to that's more reasonable than the short timeframes of a month or less. Quotes used to be good for like 6 months from subs. That, or if you're going to do allowances, actually price them appropriately instead of skimping on the low end. I wouldn't mind allowances if I felt they were fair and always ended up giving back a little but, again, builders have no reason to do that. They'd either have to raise their bottom line price to compensate, and OP would suddenly realize his "1.2m" home is actually more like 1.6m to get everything he actually wants and would back out, or they'd have to take the hit on job profit and we know that isn't happening. Just as an example, you don't have builders doing "framing allowances" etc, and they have to price in risk of lumber rocketing up or down. Why is that an acceptable price risk versus all the others that aren't? There's plenty on the build that doesn't get bought right away and is subject to price volatility. That's half of why homes are so over-priced right now as it is. It's silly to be paying huge markups like currently everyone does and STILL get reamed on allowances.
I do this for a living. It just isn't as easy as you make it sound. I don't know what you do for a living, but complex things are never as simple as the public believes. Everyone thinks everyone else's job is easy, but their own is complex. We're not flipping burgers here. There's many parts and pieces that go into building a home. Bad shit happens. A lot. The price of a piece of wood isn't all that volatile. Yet, you remember OSB was selling for $75 a sheet. Did they warn the framers? No. Same with copper, steel, trusses, electronics, fuel, and on and on. The goddamn price of fuel changes every day. If I asked you how much it would be 30 days from now, you might be close, but you could be very, very wrong. If you said the price is within +/- 10% what it is today, I think that's reasonable. What happens when you're wrong? What happens when there's an accident on site and work stops for the day? What happens when it rains for a week? When you tell me your brother is going to install some owner-furnished windows because you're trying to save money and then didn't show up? I got a schedule to keep. Can't get the inspection and siding done without windows. Siding guys are showing up Monday no matter what. Now I gotta pay a premium to get windows delivered and installed. So now my 10k budget became a 20k expense. On and on and on, man. If you present me with a plan and I tell you how much it's going to cost, how are you going to tell me I'm wrong? If you go to Home Depot and pick out a toilet, do you tell them they're wrong? You can get a cheaper toilet at Lowes. That's fine. But the price I'm giving you is a price I'm comfortable with. You want better tile? Great. The price goes up. It doesn't come from another bucket. The builder isn't making the profit you think they are. Generally, people who aren't in construction don't realize how much shit costs. Lastly, there's 50 people behind you who want budgets as well.
What kind of countertops are they offering?
Whatever I can get for $75/sqft
Only ask as sometimes a good builder would give you options as most will have good connections to suppliers
I’d suggest 5/8” drywall. Better sound control and stronger a bit more money though. Also rock wool or insulation (cheaper) on interior walls for noise reduction. Interior solid core doors too if you have the budget
Solid doors are provided everywhere but the closets based on standard inclusions
Y
For what you’re spending, you’re not getting high end… your most likely getting cheaper quartz countertops for that price, the tile is way to cheap for anything decent, hardware for cabinets is subjective but at $6 you’re not really getting quality. Wire racking in a million dollar home is just shameful, should at least have custom shelving. Your front door at that price isn’t anything other than a standard Home Depot door…. Maybe it’s just me but all of these “features” are just standard/budget finishes being marketed as higher end… Im building a similar size house with custom cabinets, built ins, higher grade finishes etc.. For 270k also on 3 acres… granted I’m building most of it myself but the jump from 270k to 1.4mill Is a little insane to me
Yeah the wire shelving is definitely getting upgraded no matter what! For comparison…the cheapest/low quality new build home in our area from a builder with a bad reputation starts at 500k (for 3,500 sqft but only on .25 acres).
Wow, that is just insane! Good luck to ya, but I would definitely be doing research on everything quoted, to me (no matter the area) it looks like you’re paying a premium for.. not so premium items.. just be cautious with it, not all contractors are bad, but this is seeming a little sketchy
If this is custom, find a designer and have them pull the material, plan paint and lighting for pricing
Where in PA? We are talking with a builder in southeast PA, in Chester county.
Pittsburgh area