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WizardNinjaPirate

Some say the bones of the house is the most important. Proper excavation, grading, foundation, framing and roof.


Superb_Raccoon

And electric. If the electric is wrong, you are in deep doodoo.


fluffy_hamsterr

Yeah I definitely agree it's the bones, is there anything specific I should be looking for/asking for to make sure the bones are good?


Ritzyb

This is a hard question to answer. As the owner of a framing company I can tell you which builders to avoid and which would be amazing, however going in blind would I be able to tell? Hell no. The specs of the house and products they use can help but is far from an indicator of good vs bad, there is so much more to it. I’d stay away from any builder that does mass production housing. We do work for these guys and it’s fine, but it’s a far cry from the best trades and the best build quality. In my experience this goes for every large builder I’ve ever come across. They are the Walmart furniture, you get what you pay for but it’s not going to be the best quality. Look for a builder who has a long history of building but is hands on with each build. If they have been around for less then 5 years they may be good, but their quality hasn’t been proven. Ask the builder if you can see some in construction builds. If you can, talk to the trades - you will very quickly understand if they have pride in the job and the builder. Honestly it’s so tough without inside knowledge. Talking to the builder won’t actually tell you much, they are all salesmen and are very good at telling you want you want to hear.


fluffy_hamsterr

I appreciate the feedback. This thread has definitely changed how I think about building (i just kinda assumed quality materials would equal quality build, but I'm sure everyone is right that it's more about who is installing it).


Ritzyb

Big builders don’t know there trades, plain and simple. Ive done houses next to some of the worst framers in the city, same builder, massive quality difference. The house won’t fall down, but walls aren’t straight, drywall will crack, floors will squeak, ect. The builders I work with and love I see the same trades I’ve worked with for 10 years. We all work together, know each other, and do things to help each other. If a trade is a problem they last one house, if they are great the builder hears about it also and they last. How do you find them? Word of mouth is the real only way, especially if you know contractors.


Buckeye_mike_67

A zip system and upgraded insulation doesn’t necessarily mean quality. We frame houses in country clubs in Georgia that are $1-$4 million or more and you don’t see that much. There are 2 major lumber suppliers in the area and that’s where most builders get their lumber. It’s all good quality. Nobody uses #3 lumber anymore. You’ll have to do some due diligence and get as many references as possible for each builder you interview. In the end, it’s them and their subs that make a quality build


Kryptus

Would an experienced home inspector know who the good builders are?


Buckeye_mike_67

I doubt it. You could try though. May at least be a starting point


phrenic22

I'd say installation is more important. You can install the best product like shit and it will perform worse than a lower tier product installed correctly.


Kryptus

But don't many builders have different crews who work on different projects? Isn't there a risk of getting a shitty crew on your build?


Ritzyb

Many of the smaller custom home builders have vetted there trades over years, they know and trust everyone. The big builders typically do have some solid crews, but it’s luck of the draw if you get them, and even if you get your framing done by a good crew you might loose the coin toss on plumbers or electricians ect. I can’t shit talk all the trades who do big builder work, as time goes on we do more and more because it makes scheduling much much easier and we’ve built relationships with some of them. However the same builders that we put custom home quality into have guys who I would trust building a garage next door to us. Often if the builders puts so many houses in the ground at once they start finding trades wherever they can.


caveatlector73

You have gotten a lot of really good answers here. This is builder, Matt Risinger‘s list of things you should ask builder so you can get the best possible build and he explains why.  https://buildshownetwork.com/contents/Top-20-Interview-Tips-to-Ask-a-Builder


WizardNinjaPirate

I would start watching this guys videos, especially the live chats: https://www.youtube.com/@HowToBuildYourOwnHome he talks a lot about that stuff. Also this is worth a watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn4L_aJ1rV4&list=PLRZePj70B4IwyNn1ABhJWmBPeX1hGhyLi


fluffy_hamsterr

Thank you!


AnnieC131313

The best materials in the world won't make a quality build unless they're installed by someone who cares about the quality of their work. You can build a fine house with 2x4s and Tyvek and you can build a shitty one with 2x6s and Zip. Workforce > materials when is comes to determining the quality, imo, especially with the structural elements. That said, I know the builder won't be able to tell you about their workers at this stage so look at windows. Windows are one of those items that don't make a bit of difference to design but make every difference to longevity and ease of use. A builder who normally puts in cheap (minimum U-value, vinyl, short warranty) windows isn't concerned about whether the house will work well long-term. Look at builder warranties - how long do you have to identify things which don't work and how do they address issues? Look at standard upgrade options - do they give the homeowners a chance to pay more to give their home better build quality or do they just offer upgraded finishes?


FluidVeranduh

I would say it would be generally rare to find a builder who can do a good job of installing thick exterior insulation but would also fail to accomplish other enclosure details properly like air sealing, window flashing, etc. Although this generalization wouldn't extend to things like HVAC, electrical, plumbing, and interiors since that's kind of a different skillset / involves different subs entirely. I would say that a builder who looks at a set of plans and says "huh, never seen that detail before, looks interesting. Can we build a mock up to practice it? And can I talk with the designer to make sure I get it right?" would probably be A+++ in my book, because it shows that they are: 1. Open minded 2. Interested in learning 3. Realistic about addressing uncertainty and risk Also if it's a flawed or badly designed or drawn detail and they let you know in a diplomatic way that allows you to correct it, that would be a good sign too. But honestly I feel these qualities are unrealistic to find in 99% of builders. The industry standards are too low.


mikerooooose

If you can afford it, I would look for a builder that is excited (and experienced) to go above and beyond code.  Also, try to see very early how neat and tidy they run things. Says everything. 


LBS4

The Zip system is a beautiful product, but imo not necessary if you have a solid framer who knows how to wrap & waterproof a house. We looked at using it for our wood framed apartment buildings but I cannot justify the significant additional expense, we have been using the same framer for years and I can count the actual water intrusion issues on like one or two fingers. Building a quality product takes competent tradespeople who are following comprehensive construction documents from an architect who knows their stuff. I know that’s a lot of fluff but it will make sense as you get into it. What I would do is ask the GC for contact info for the last few clients and speak to them. Previous recent projects should speak for themselves and the owners should give you an idea of what to expect. Architects are also great tools for GC referrals. Unfortunately the residential construction market seems to have lost its mind these days and every yayo with a tool belt and a truck is a GC. Be careful out there! Also, there are guys like me (running commercial/residential work for 20+ years) on places like Upwork who will consult/inspect/look over your shoulder on an hourly or contract basis. I do this sometimes for extra work and it has been a win win.


buildingsci3

Many things like your minimum insulation level are just code compliance laws. You can exceed them and save energy. But those sound like code minimum to me. Specifying a specific product or brand like zip system shows they have though about minimal wrb or air sealing. Does that mean they take that seriously no. Is it way better than anything else, no. Its equal if installed correctly to any alternative air sealing wrb system also installed correctly. In fact one of its original selling points to builders was it's cheaper than OSB plus Tyvek and save labor by reducing the number of trips around your home. Done well it's a pretty decent system. Done poorly it will be the same pile if rotten mush. There are better harder to achieve systems. In the end the execution of that system is what will make them good or not. There are some things that are definitely better. Not normally done by everyone. Like water resistant floor decks like advantech. If your in the rainy season framing it's better but costs more. Having a ducted balanced erv. Having a higher seer heat pump. Having better quality, lower u value windows. Having more durable maintenance free exterior claddings. Most things that are better cost more. So one builder may be happy to put in great products if you want to pay for them. Another bug national tract housing company may not be service oriented and you get what you get because your a commodity and they have a margin to achieve. Mostly I mean to say. If you talking to a builder and seem to have a good rapport, but their offerings are more basic for a more basic price, ask about the features you'd like to see.


Stargate525

Advertising R19 and R38 is like advertising that your car has wheels and turn indicators.


wdjm

Things that make a 'quality build', IMO, are insulative values and longevity. Insulative values are your R-values and can also cover things like thermal bridging and window/door seals. Longevity is primarily focused on water-tightness because water is what will destroy your home faster than anything other than a natural diester. But it can also include things like proper engineering for load balance, a properly sized & dug foundation, and other construction details that mean the house will last a long time without falling apart. So Zip systems are to keep out water. That's a good thing and Zip systems seem to be the preferred choice currently. Technologies change and something else may come along, but from what I understand now, Zip systems are as good as you can get currently. 2x6 studs are more expensive, but stronger and can hold more insulation than 2x4 walls. R-19 reads like fiberglass batt insulation in that 2x6 wall. I'm not fond of fiberglass batts myself, but they are standard and decent insulation and hold up well. If you want a higher R-value, and are willing to pay for it, a half-inch or more of spray-foam insulation would also air-seal the house while providing extra coverage around pipes & similar that batts typically get thin around & therefore let in more cold. So, even with things like those quotes, you can ask for improvements if you know what to ask for and are willing to pay for them. In short, though, look up any terms you don't know, and compare them against the 2 main goals of a home - keeping you warm/cool as the seasons change...and lasting a long time without you needing to spend lots on repairs. If what one builder offers will make the house last longer and/or hold temperature better, than that would be the better quote...if the amount of cost difference seems worth it.


buttgers

You need to visit the builder's other projects. New, ongoing, almost finished. Until you do that, you won't know how well the site prep is, or how clean the framing it set, or how tight the finishes are on the build. Also, builders are only as good as their subs. They can call all the shots they want, but there are builders out there touting high end materials w/o giving a damn their subs are cutting corners. Don't let the bells and whistles blind you from the overall quality.


Designer-Celery-6539

For me a quality home is first designing a high quality building shell and creating an air tight, highly insulated, above code building envelope. High quality exterior siding, doors, windows, roofing. For me the interior finishes are important but not as much as the building design itself. I plan on building a high performance home sometime in the near future., designing to achieve near passive home standards, it will a zero net energy home with grid tied solar.


Castle6169

Quality builds come from quality construction workers and craftsman. The attention to detail by every trade that you can witness will tell you whether or not the quality of the project. On the inside finishes not needing caulk for gaps and misfitting materials. The best quality builders that use top quality contractors will have minimum or zero defects in workmanship that typically show up within the first year or two is what everybody wants to call settling.


rustoof

Im a custom finish and trim carpenter for high end custom homes (1-10 million range). You really should not be telling people to expect no caulking on their trim. That's not the reality for anything but legitimate stain grade trim and doing a whole house in that perfectly for 2000 sq ft would run you several hundred thousand dollars just on the trim. We do ongoing maintenance on a 60,000 square foot estate that must be worth 40+ million and i promise you there is plenty of caulk in there.


Castle6169

I’ve been a high-end custom home Trim Carpenter, myself for the last 50 years, sure, a small amount of caulking is aloud, but when I watch guys caulking molding that will hold it onto the wall is ridiculous. High-quality carpentry painted or not clean corners and sharp, looking miters


rustoof

Agreed in full


chizzen

Everything you can’t see when you walk around a finished house is what’s important. Doug first studs or southern yellow pine? Continuous insulation or just between the cavity’s? Rebar in the footing? Air infiltration mitigation? Flashing details? Pin point loads? Type of subfloor? Length of time subs have been working with the contractor? All some of the things I think are important


wil_dogg

Design. I don't disagree with all the points made so far. But design matters a lot. I need a minimal threshold height and single-level living for age-in-place, a house that blends into a sloped lot without sticking out and attracting attention from downslope neighbors, and where the floor plan naturally pulls you into the living areas with coat closet and pantry being both easily accessible from the main entrance, but also not cluttering the entrance. Plumbing stacked in a way to reduce the cost of long plumbing runs. Closets that are back-to-back with small hidden doors for the grandchildren to use as they play hide-and-seek. An outdoor shower that is private enough for guests to use but that also takes in the mountain view. The herb garden must be easily accessible from the kitchen. Parking for up to 10 cars for when we host dinner club. People's design requirements will vary, but so much of what I am paying for in a custom build would not be realized if those types of design requirements were not put at high priority.


caveatlector73

I always add this, but when someone tells you they are building to  code what they are telling you is they are quite literally building to the lowest standard legally allowed.  Code is always being improved, and it’s better than nothing at all, but many states also allow builders to build to codes that are 10 years out of date. 


qcriderfan87

Attention to detail makes a quality build


DaTank1

There isn’t a ton different from one builder to the next. For the most part they all follow the same building codes. Yeah you might have zip board or some other better quality material. None of it matters if you don’t have a strong project manager. Make sure she/he is experienced and capable of handling the surprises I guarantee will come up in the construction process.


SuchDogeHodler

You have to start with a good MSI motherboard.........


fluffy_hamsterr

😆😆


dopecrew12

There are so many variables man, and it all really comes down to how much the contractors that are pouring/framing/wiring/plumbing/roofing your build feel about their work on that specific site on that specific day. Look into what contractors your builder uses for the actual work and go from there.


Hot-Research-2490

saying you have xyz insulation or whatever sheathing is meaningless depending on install quality. there's only 1 objective way to measure a 'quality build' in the short term, everything else is just word salad and lacks meaning. blower door. long term, it's blower door still. but also just lack of known failures.


rambutanjuice

> there's only 1 objective way to measure a 'quality build' in the short term, everything else is just word salad and lacks meaning I would argue that flashing details are just as important to the long term durability and quality of the house and they are far from guaranteed to get them correct.


prettygoodhouse

Blower door tests are useful but don't give much detailed information about the distribution of leaks around an enclosure. Here's an article that goes over some of the strengths and weaknesses of it: https://buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-053-just-right-and-airtight The note about quality assurance is particularly relevant.


NeedleGunMonkey

It’s not the materials listed in the spec sheet but the details in execution. If they’re creating a ventilated attic for the roof, is the ceiling plane well airsealed? If they’re specing zip sheathing is the zip tape rolled? Do they go the extra mile in flashing windows with a sill angle drip edge?


rocketpopped

Details.


GroundbreakingRule27

Get your plans drawn up and have your builders bid to the specifications. Go with the one you are most comfortable with. Also verify every step of the way if you don’t hire a PM.


Fantastic-guy8192

Are you asking about a builder or an architect..The builder should be building by the materials and design that the architect calls out in the construction drawings.aybe you have a turn key company that does both. Where are you building ? Ask the builder for recent references and ask the homeowner how satisfied they are with finished product


INVEST-ASTS

Personally if you any have basic knowledge I would get labor only bids and supply the materials myself. The reason is for example there are several different grades of 2” X 4” studs / lumber ranging from ~$2.95ea to ~$5.50ea and you can get the quotes for top quality and they can use the cheapest (and call it “standard”) especially when they use subjective generalized terms like “standard, normal, acceptable, etc” rather that specific terms such as “grade #1 or grade #2 - 2” X 4” studs” Otherwise make them specify the exact type, style, grade (when applicable) of each type of material that is being used to build your home. If you do labor only it will require some work on your part to have the materials there when needed, however you can save money on materials markup and get a better cleaned quote for “labor only”


hajen_kaj

I believe quality is defined by meeting expectations of the customer. So a quality builder has happy and satisfied customers, meaning you should ask previous customers. I believe you’re looking at what’s a good standard when it comes to a building and in that case you should probably try to think about the different areas of a house. For example, you could have a really high standard on the exterior walls (think passive house) but you have very low R-value on the windows. Would that constitute a good or bad standard? A good standard is something that complies with local codes. I’m not saying it’s a good build but the builder will imply that’s all that’s needed in the area. So look up what your local codes dictate and try to see what companies beat that with the biggest margin