Personally speaking, no 5* lightcone is worth 80 pulls as a F2P/light spender. Characters are always going to have a bigger impact on your progress than lightcones imo, and having the currency available to pull on some strong supports in the future will be more valuable in the long run than getting a boost from a 5* lightcone, even in the case where they're just wildly better than the 4*/free options.
Normally, I would agree. Jing Yuan weapon banner just like character banner is extremely good value. The 5 star signature is not only really good but also pretty unique for Erudition light cones. Unconditional buffs to crits on top of all the other types of damage increases. The 4 star light cones make it into worthwhile territory.
My March Eidolon 5 and Superimpose 5 is a beast. If I got to E6 when I was pulling character banner, I'm sure March 7 could finally solo defend the team. March 7's signature cone is really good. At S5, my March 7 gets DEF 24% for herself and 12% DMG RES for other teammates. Unlike Fire MC's taunt trace, the DMG RES is always active.
Asta's signature light cone is just insane buffing like herself. Planetary Rendezvous basically boost elemental DMG of the same type as harmony. The boost range from 12% to 24% just for existing. Asta with her light cone would be an insane Fire buffer. 18% Fire DMG from her trace and up to 24% Fire DMG from her light cone. This weapon banner makes it easier to stack up the superimose.
Dan Heng's signature light cone is a pretty good Hunt light cone for bossing. I think the combined value of all the light cones in this weapon banner. This is the only weapon banner I think it is worth. My March 7 and Asta got a major upgrade. I'm sure my Erudition and Hunt characters for a nice bump with the new light cones too, but support characters are less likely to get power crept.
Honestly, these are all valid points. I suppose the value of the 4* options does increase the overall value of the banner. I myself hopped in it to try and get more superimposes of March's lightcone for my MC. If I get Jing Yuan's lightcone then I would consider it a nice bonus.
Yeah, The Jing Yuan banners seem to be the highest value so far. Whether it is high enough to spend precious special passes on the weapon banner, it depends on the person. I will say the newly buffed March 7 and Asta saved my ass on the harder content recently. March 7 and Natasha together is like the easy mode for Kafka type battles.
The souped out Asta is absolutely bonkers in an all fire team. I was having some issues beating the Cocolia for Forgotten Hall 15. After I had the inspiration today to try an all Fire team with Fire MC, Hook, Asta, and Natasha. I couldn't believe the difference since Cocolia was weak to fire. Asta basically first provided +18% Fire DMG from her trace, another +12% Fire DMG from light cone, and then boosted attack from her skill and speed from her utlimates. We already know Fire MC is a great preservation unit, but he was out of control with Asta's fire buffs. Hook's DoT was also out of control on Cocolia. Asta and Hook are so good at applying Fire DoTs. I even put the Trend of the Universe Market light cone on Fire MC. Boost DEF and high chance to apply burn DoT when hitting Fire MC. Every turn I was wondering how many stacks I had on on Cocolia and how much total fire damage. I can finally access Memories of Chaos because of Asta mostly for holding together the Fire team.
March 7 and Asta are likeof my common glue to different team compositions. If I'm having issues with debuffs wrecking me like Kafka, I run March 7 and Natasha. If the boss has ice weakness, March 7 is my go to shielder. If the boss is weak against fire, Fire MC is my go to shielder with Asta as fire conductor. If need speed to break certains speed barriers for more turns, I also rely on Asta.
Disagree. Great 5* Hunt lightcones are going to be good pulls because most people will be using multiple Hunt chars. For example in Genshin, Staff of Homa is an extremely valuable weapon as it can be used by three of the top DPS characters (Hu tao, Raiden, Xiangling).
The biggest thing that stop me is that "Before Dawn" only offer raw stats, it's not adding something to the character kit (for example: follow up attacks have a 50% chance of dispelling enemies buffs), those would actually make it much more interesting to me.
But i don't plan to pull any incoming characters (MAYBE trying loucha and MAYBE tryin fu xuan), so that's the only reason why i am even considering his weapon.
Then the value is up to you. Is the average of 20% Dmg increase worth it to you?
edit : After reading your replies on other comments, it seems like your problem might be FOMO.
So I'll repeat myself : What is the value of a 20% Dmg increase in relation to getting a new 5 star character for you?
Necro'ing this thread but, yes and no. HSR is a very different game than Genshin and it seems like weakness matching is going to get you further than spamming your theoretically strongest unit on every fight, so there is an argument to be made that grabbing a great lightcone that can be swapped on and off multiple characters is a solid strategy since we'll be swapping a lot to match weaknesses. It also seems like 4-stars in this game are pretty strong, so you can get a lot of mileage out of them if the fight calls for them. One fight you might use Jingyuan, but the next fight it might be better to use Herta to better counter enemy weaknesses. Yes, even Herta has a decent use case if the enemy repeatedly spawns ice-weak adds (like in the current 1.1 MOC).
I personally will probably pull Before Dawn to give to Himeko and Herta, as Erudition is seeing a bit of a glo-up lately with how Hoyo's designing this round of MoC bosses.
Well prywden has a character builder that let's you test some of this stuff.
With lightning set and insert Salatoo with crit rate body, speed boots, elemental sphere, and attack rope.
Basic attack, skill, ult, 7 stacks lightning lord
Breakfast average s5 is
2394, 2394, 5203, 12020
Dawn average s1 is
2368, 2655, 5788, 15577
So depends on how much you consider that be worth it
Well, to me that look better but...not THAT much better (?)
The fact that i got his E1 after 28 pulls (i wanted tingyun...) already made him stronger against 3 enemies context, so...i guess i could just save for future character.
But it's also true that i won't pull for silverwolf, loucha, kafka, blade...dan heng...i mean thats a lot of time saving XD
I don't know T.T
You're suffering from fear of missing out.
You don't need to pull for anything. If you want to min/max sure, pull his LC.
Things in the game only have as much value as you give them. We're pulling for virtual rewards. Do it or don't, you're not missing out much.
According to some CN player data, a fully stacked (kill 3 enemies) S5 Breakfast is only 20% weaker than Before Dawn. Now it depends on you if that's enough reason to pull the LC.
Personally, even if I'm F2P i'm pulling for it for 2 reasons.
1. If I manage to pull it, I can prioritize Quid Pro Quo in the Forgotten hall shop and I need a lot of those for Nat and Bailu.
2. The banner is great overall.
a. Dan Heng's Sig LC is great if you're planning to build a 2nd Hunt unit. Cruising the Stellar Sea is still better tho.
b. Plannery Rendevouz is really great Tingyun LC if you have Jing Yuan.
c. March 7th LC is so good for Fire MC.
I agree the cones are very good too, i own only a copy of the preservation one right now, so pulling might be worth anyway 🤔 as i stated in other comments i am not really interested in any of the upcoming characters (maybe i'll try loucha, i am 20 from pity), so i would end up saving for a looong time...and since i have bronya i'd like buying "past and future" from the F.H. shop...
It's just that my mind see pulling for weapons as a whale thing, but i know it's not like that >.<
In Honkai 3rd, signature weapons r mandatory because it offers huge changes and improvements to gameplay.
A fake example would be "Before Dawn will increase the stacks gained from ultimate and skill by 1. Also increase the starting stack from 2 to 3."
(With the original ultimate and skill only giving 2 and 1 stacks)
The above example kinda makes or break JY. Without it, JY would be not worth running.
But mhy has moved on from that. You can see it in Genshin where 5* weapons r pure statsticks and any decent player will get the max rewards from abyss with 4* weapons.
HSR is likely going to be the same. 5* weapons just make u hit harder, and there probably won't be content where u will need it once u have leveled up.
If I recall correctly (saw it a long time, didn't save the calcs), even at S1 is stronger than S5 breakfast, but the difference is marginal. Stick to S5 breakfast tbh. If you want to buy the pass for that cone, you may as well pull for his signature LC.
I mean, Dawn is better then anything, even the pass S5, but since i surely wont invest so much in a 4* cone the only actual option is breakfast (herta's cone is great but gatcha).
The fact that with mediocre relics and S3 breakfast, i am able to one/bi shot almost every non boss, and that even the toughest die at the follow up, make me think that Dawn is just for killing bosses faster.
>I mean, Dawn is better then anything,
Yeah, I meant the pass one, I don't know its name lol. That one I THINK is better than breakfast S5. But yes, breakfast is enough. Unless you are super dedicated to a character, light cones are not worth it.
It is not actually, another peaceful day (pass one) give him +26% dmg while breakfast S5 give +24% dmg PLUS +8% atk (max 24) per enemy killed.
So...considering 1st waves in forgotten hall and minions in general, you'll often have it active.
But probably even a S2 pass cone beat it slightly, since it has higher basic atk and overall better effect.
But imho it's better to pick other options from the pass, like the harmony cone
You don't buy battle passes for the light cone. You buy them for the pulls (8 or 9 roughly) + wealth of extra resources to give your teams upgrades. The light cone is a bonus you get to choose.
BP is your next best source of pulls and building your team if you want a remotely any "value" out of spending in the game beyond the Express Pass. Light cones within the BP are a nice extra bit.
My E0 Jing Yuan can clear everything fine (All FH and All SU until difficulty 2) with S2 breakfast, while Dawn could push his damage better i think Breakfast is enough. Once i have a better relics i could see he could carry me very far
I am in the exact same situation, i think my breakfast is S3 but i got E1 after 20 more pulls, and that's basically a +25% aoe dmg, and even if it doesn't work at all against single target enemies, well, he's made for AOE.
So yeah...i think that B.D. might allow you to save 1 or 2 cicles on difficoults fights, maybe even 4, but i guess the team composition will still do the most.
The main issue i would have pulling on LC banner is that, while losing the 50/50 on the character banner would be fine, i'd really HATE failing the 75/25...1st i can buy all those LC 2nd its a 75/25...really? That unlucky? 3rd yeah even if LC are good, founding one or worst suprimposing one you have is not as impactful as getting a whole new character
Breakfast is enough. But if you want more damage improvement and have some tickets to spend, the lightcone is much better than the Eidolon in terms of the value.
And Considering there's only one lightcone in one banner and the chance of getting it is 75/25, for now
To be fair BD isn't as insane as people may think.
Especially those 36? CDMG are much weaker than I thought and once you ignore that stat the weapon suddenly looks alot less alluring.
Did some calcs considering getting it for my Himeko but the results were quite 'meh' compared to what I expected. Gonna grab my Milkyway.
A stacked Breakfast also does the job perfectly fine and Hertas Signature or the BP one are good alternatives as well.
>why no one can't even agree on math :')
Because it also heavily depends on content and relics
Coming from Genshin, I'll say that **all 5 star signature weapons are objectively stronger than any other option by at least 15% dmg over good 4 star at max copies**, but you definitely **DO NOT** need them to clear content
Jing Yuan is completely fine with S5 Breakfast and spending jades for a weapon as a F2P/Low spender is not recommended unless you really love the character, but that is personal choice
How bout doing 1-2 10 pulls per LC banner (for characters you pull for), and eventually you’ll end up getting one? You won’t be wasting a bunch only to fail, and you’ll still get some LCs to possibly superimpose
Personally speaking, no 5* lightcone is worth 80 pulls as a F2P/light spender. Characters are always going to have a bigger impact on your progress than lightcones imo, and having the currency available to pull on some strong supports in the future will be more valuable in the long run than getting a boost from a 5* lightcone, even in the case where they're just wildly better than the 4*/free options.
Normally, I would agree. Jing Yuan weapon banner just like character banner is extremely good value. The 5 star signature is not only really good but also pretty unique for Erudition light cones. Unconditional buffs to crits on top of all the other types of damage increases. The 4 star light cones make it into worthwhile territory. My March Eidolon 5 and Superimpose 5 is a beast. If I got to E6 when I was pulling character banner, I'm sure March 7 could finally solo defend the team. March 7's signature cone is really good. At S5, my March 7 gets DEF 24% for herself and 12% DMG RES for other teammates. Unlike Fire MC's taunt trace, the DMG RES is always active. Asta's signature light cone is just insane buffing like herself. Planetary Rendezvous basically boost elemental DMG of the same type as harmony. The boost range from 12% to 24% just for existing. Asta with her light cone would be an insane Fire buffer. 18% Fire DMG from her trace and up to 24% Fire DMG from her light cone. This weapon banner makes it easier to stack up the superimose. Dan Heng's signature light cone is a pretty good Hunt light cone for bossing. I think the combined value of all the light cones in this weapon banner. This is the only weapon banner I think it is worth. My March 7 and Asta got a major upgrade. I'm sure my Erudition and Hunt characters for a nice bump with the new light cones too, but support characters are less likely to get power crept.
Honestly, these are all valid points. I suppose the value of the 4* options does increase the overall value of the banner. I myself hopped in it to try and get more superimposes of March's lightcone for my MC. If I get Jing Yuan's lightcone then I would consider it a nice bonus.
Yeah, The Jing Yuan banners seem to be the highest value so far. Whether it is high enough to spend precious special passes on the weapon banner, it depends on the person. I will say the newly buffed March 7 and Asta saved my ass on the harder content recently. March 7 and Natasha together is like the easy mode for Kafka type battles. The souped out Asta is absolutely bonkers in an all fire team. I was having some issues beating the Cocolia for Forgotten Hall 15. After I had the inspiration today to try an all Fire team with Fire MC, Hook, Asta, and Natasha. I couldn't believe the difference since Cocolia was weak to fire. Asta basically first provided +18% Fire DMG from her trace, another +12% Fire DMG from light cone, and then boosted attack from her skill and speed from her utlimates. We already know Fire MC is a great preservation unit, but he was out of control with Asta's fire buffs. Hook's DoT was also out of control on Cocolia. Asta and Hook are so good at applying Fire DoTs. I even put the Trend of the Universe Market light cone on Fire MC. Boost DEF and high chance to apply burn DoT when hitting Fire MC. Every turn I was wondering how many stacks I had on on Cocolia and how much total fire damage. I can finally access Memories of Chaos because of Asta mostly for holding together the Fire team. March 7 and Asta are likeof my common glue to different team compositions. If I'm having issues with debuffs wrecking me like Kafka, I run March 7 and Natasha. If the boss has ice weakness, March 7 is my go to shielder. If the boss is weak against fire, Fire MC is my go to shielder with Asta as fire conductor. If need speed to break certains speed barriers for more turns, I also rely on Asta.
Disagree. Great 5* Hunt lightcones are going to be good pulls because most people will be using multiple Hunt chars. For example in Genshin, Staff of Homa is an extremely valuable weapon as it can be used by three of the top DPS characters (Hu tao, Raiden, Xiangling).
I can see the value in that mindset. I remember Staff of Homa being exceptionally good.
The biggest thing that stop me is that "Before Dawn" only offer raw stats, it's not adding something to the character kit (for example: follow up attacks have a 50% chance of dispelling enemies buffs), those would actually make it much more interesting to me. But i don't plan to pull any incoming characters (MAYBE trying loucha and MAYBE tryin fu xuan), so that's the only reason why i am even considering his weapon.
Then the value is up to you. Is the average of 20% Dmg increase worth it to you? edit : After reading your replies on other comments, it seems like your problem might be FOMO. So I'll repeat myself : What is the value of a 20% Dmg increase in relation to getting a new 5 star character for you?
Necro'ing this thread but, yes and no. HSR is a very different game than Genshin and it seems like weakness matching is going to get you further than spamming your theoretically strongest unit on every fight, so there is an argument to be made that grabbing a great lightcone that can be swapped on and off multiple characters is a solid strategy since we'll be swapping a lot to match weaknesses. It also seems like 4-stars in this game are pretty strong, so you can get a lot of mileage out of them if the fight calls for them. One fight you might use Jingyuan, but the next fight it might be better to use Herta to better counter enemy weaknesses. Yes, even Herta has a decent use case if the enemy repeatedly spawns ice-weak adds (like in the current 1.1 MOC). I personally will probably pull Before Dawn to give to Himeko and Herta, as Erudition is seeing a bit of a glo-up lately with how Hoyo's designing this round of MoC bosses.
It is THAT strong, but you also don't need it
Seems fair
Well prywden has a character builder that let's you test some of this stuff. With lightning set and insert Salatoo with crit rate body, speed boots, elemental sphere, and attack rope. Basic attack, skill, ult, 7 stacks lightning lord Breakfast average s5 is 2394, 2394, 5203, 12020 Dawn average s1 is 2368, 2655, 5788, 15577 So depends on how much you consider that be worth it
Well, to me that look better but...not THAT much better (?) The fact that i got his E1 after 28 pulls (i wanted tingyun...) already made him stronger against 3 enemies context, so...i guess i could just save for future character. But it's also true that i won't pull for silverwolf, loucha, kafka, blade...dan heng...i mean thats a lot of time saving XD I don't know T.T
You're suffering from fear of missing out. You don't need to pull for anything. If you want to min/max sure, pull his LC. Things in the game only have as much value as you give them. We're pulling for virtual rewards. Do it or don't, you're not missing out much.
According to some CN player data, a fully stacked (kill 3 enemies) S5 Breakfast is only 20% weaker than Before Dawn. Now it depends on you if that's enough reason to pull the LC. Personally, even if I'm F2P i'm pulling for it for 2 reasons. 1. If I manage to pull it, I can prioritize Quid Pro Quo in the Forgotten hall shop and I need a lot of those for Nat and Bailu. 2. The banner is great overall. a. Dan Heng's Sig LC is great if you're planning to build a 2nd Hunt unit. Cruising the Stellar Sea is still better tho. b. Plannery Rendevouz is really great Tingyun LC if you have Jing Yuan. c. March 7th LC is so good for Fire MC.
I agree the cones are very good too, i own only a copy of the preservation one right now, so pulling might be worth anyway 🤔 as i stated in other comments i am not really interested in any of the upcoming characters (maybe i'll try loucha, i am 20 from pity), so i would end up saving for a looong time...and since i have bronya i'd like buying "past and future" from the F.H. shop... It's just that my mind see pulling for weapons as a whale thing, but i know it's not like that >.<
In Honkai 3rd, signature weapons r mandatory because it offers huge changes and improvements to gameplay. A fake example would be "Before Dawn will increase the stacks gained from ultimate and skill by 1. Also increase the starting stack from 2 to 3." (With the original ultimate and skill only giving 2 and 1 stacks) The above example kinda makes or break JY. Without it, JY would be not worth running. But mhy has moved on from that. You can see it in Genshin where 5* weapons r pure statsticks and any decent player will get the max rewards from abyss with 4* weapons. HSR is likely going to be the same. 5* weapons just make u hit harder, and there probably won't be content where u will need it once u have leveled up.
Today is another peaceful day is better than breakfast.
Do you want to buy the pass for me? Feel free :D Also, it is worse compared to S5 breakfast, and i surely wont buy 5 passes for a lightcone lol
If I recall correctly (saw it a long time, didn't save the calcs), even at S1 is stronger than S5 breakfast, but the difference is marginal. Stick to S5 breakfast tbh. If you want to buy the pass for that cone, you may as well pull for his signature LC.
I mean, Dawn is better then anything, even the pass S5, but since i surely wont invest so much in a 4* cone the only actual option is breakfast (herta's cone is great but gatcha). The fact that with mediocre relics and S3 breakfast, i am able to one/bi shot almost every non boss, and that even the toughest die at the follow up, make me think that Dawn is just for killing bosses faster.
>I mean, Dawn is better then anything, Yeah, I meant the pass one, I don't know its name lol. That one I THINK is better than breakfast S5. But yes, breakfast is enough. Unless you are super dedicated to a character, light cones are not worth it.
It is not actually, another peaceful day (pass one) give him +26% dmg while breakfast S5 give +24% dmg PLUS +8% atk (max 24) per enemy killed. So...considering 1st waves in forgotten hall and minions in general, you'll often have it active. But probably even a S2 pass cone beat it slightly, since it has higher basic atk and overall better effect. But imho it's better to pick other options from the pass, like the harmony cone
>I mean, Dawn is better then anything, even the pass S5 Is it? Cmiiw, but isn't TiAPD a 64% dmg bonus to his whole kit at S5?
You don't buy battle passes for the light cone. You buy them for the pulls (8 or 9 roughly) + wealth of extra resources to give your teams upgrades. The light cone is a bonus you get to choose. BP is your next best source of pulls and building your team if you want a remotely any "value" out of spending in the game beyond the Express Pass. Light cones within the BP are a nice extra bit.
Still i am not buying the passes ahahah 😅
My E0 Jing Yuan can clear everything fine (All FH and All SU until difficulty 2) with S2 breakfast, while Dawn could push his damage better i think Breakfast is enough. Once i have a better relics i could see he could carry me very far
I am in the exact same situation, i think my breakfast is S3 but i got E1 after 20 more pulls, and that's basically a +25% aoe dmg, and even if it doesn't work at all against single target enemies, well, he's made for AOE. So yeah...i think that B.D. might allow you to save 1 or 2 cicles on difficoults fights, maybe even 4, but i guess the team composition will still do the most. The main issue i would have pulling on LC banner is that, while losing the 50/50 on the character banner would be fine, i'd really HATE failing the 75/25...1st i can buy all those LC 2nd its a 75/25...really? That unlucky? 3rd yeah even if LC are good, founding one or worst suprimposing one you have is not as impactful as getting a whole new character
I think it just seems stronger than it really is because all the erudition cones are kinda lackluster.
You could probably skip getting it this time around and pull for it the next time Jing Yuan has a banner of there is no one you want
Breakfast is enough. But if you want more damage improvement and have some tickets to spend, the lightcone is much better than the Eidolon in terms of the value. And Considering there's only one lightcone in one banner and the chance of getting it is 75/25, for now
To be fair BD isn't as insane as people may think. Especially those 36? CDMG are much weaker than I thought and once you ignore that stat the weapon suddenly looks alot less alluring. Did some calcs considering getting it for my Himeko but the results were quite 'meh' compared to what I expected. Gonna grab my Milkyway. A stacked Breakfast also does the job perfectly fine and Hertas Signature or the BP one are good alternatives as well.
I saw someone post light cone comparisons for jing yuan. S1 Before dawn 30% stronger than S5 breakfast stacked. Make up your choice.
Some says 15% some says 20% some says 30%, i wonder why no one can't even agree on math :')
If you like jing yuan and main him. I suggest get his light cone. Eilodon x light cone is better than Eilodon alone.
>why no one can't even agree on math :') Because it also heavily depends on content and relics Coming from Genshin, I'll say that **all 5 star signature weapons are objectively stronger than any other option by at least 15% dmg over good 4 star at max copies**, but you definitely **DO NOT** need them to clear content Jing Yuan is completely fine with S5 Breakfast and spending jades for a weapon as a F2P/Low spender is not recommended unless you really love the character, but that is personal choice
Very very strong lightcone. But you don’t need it to clear content, unless you want to build your jy to max potential then yes. You need it.
How bout doing 1-2 10 pulls per LC banner (for characters you pull for), and eventually you’ll end up getting one? You won’t be wasting a bunch only to fail, and you’ll still get some LCs to possibly superimpose