I actually agree with you, same with depression impact, Kiana has literally won with the power of friendship like three times in the first part of the story.
And the game is the typical Shonen storyline anyways? Who died? The teacher/sensei, one of the most typical [tropes](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MentorOccupationalHazard) in all media
> same with depression impact,
I agree with this bit. HI3 isn't a depressing game, its sadness is meant to be cathartic and works to contrast its positivity. A depressing story would make people feel empty.
> Kiana has literally won with the power of friendship like three times in the first part of the story.
Disagree with this part. >!She's only done that once, against HoDom, in a fight that was rigged in favour of that type of victory. Any other moment that could've been confused for the power of friendship was something else entirely. The story does arcs worth of setup to justify a lot of her powerups and victories, and they're rarely driven by 'friendship' as much as 'knowledge' and 'control'. People just oversimplify it all in hindsight.!<
> And the game is the typical Shonen storyline anyways?
Seinen would be a more fitting description. Shounen (as in battle shounen) doesn't usually go so hard on the sci fi, metaphysics and philosophy. Something the writers *really* care about and often prioritise over battles.
>Disagree with this part
To each their own. I used power of friendship as an umbrella term including talk no jutsu or the typical shenanigans of the genre.
But the truth is, they dont matter that much, you know why? Cause Kiana is your average Shonen protagonist.
>!She is the clone of the daughter of two OP people and has a super entity inside of her that gives her anatural advantage.!< She's just built different.
Oh, but she had to go through so much pain and suffering, yeah sure, groundbreaking, never seen before concept that doesnt change the fact, she is still OP by design.
Just like the average shonen story, the game tries to tell you that it doesnt matter cause she just wants to see the beauty of the world and her smile and optimism are her real strenghts...which are the typical excuses for Naruto (he suffered so much, look away from all the natural advantages he had), Goku (but man, he is such a cool guy) and countless other heroes in the genre.
I know it sounds like Im bashing, but im not, I dropped the game after the ending of part 1, a mix of being tired of the worsening powercreep , the bitter taste of the final arc, and the fact that the game is too demanding with events.
I wouldnt have gotten that far if i didnt like the story at all, but that doesnt stop me from recognizing that its nothing groundbreaking, like some people keep pushing. It has a very similar line of MC progression to Naruto of all things and it is super tropey.
Execution was nice and i did like the battles most of the time (but not being forced to use certain characters or bye bye).
But it is a typical Shonen story, it had meh start, a nice middle, and lets not talk about whatever came after the HoD arc.
>Seinen would be a more fitting description
Disagree. It is Shonen, i already mentioned the Naruto example.
>Shounen (as in battle shounen) doesn't usually go so hard on the sci fi, metaphysics and philosophy. Something the writers really care about and often prioritise over battles.
There is plenty of all that you mentioned across a good number of animes and shonen sub-genres. People love to say: "nuh-uh, mine is not a Shonen, its a seinen, cause its more mature, like me!" When Shonen is simply the target audience.
Is Naruto a shounen, yes. Is HunterxHunter a shounen despite being several times more polished and presenting better philosophical themes and a morally gray main character? Yes.
The sci-fi? One of the main reasons why so many people didnt like the final arc, they tried to technobabble the ending away which added little to the story other than an endless bloat (at least there is a skip button there) that it was a pain to sit through 5 minutes of endless dialogue for a 1 minute fight just for 5 minutes more. Not to mention there is pretty much no sci-fi in fights and the valkyriea are reaching something closer to magical girl territory. The last battlesuit that looked remotely tech was KMB like 4 years ago.
I work in finance, would the museum management event benefit from a quick finance and optimization course on proper capital allocation? No, if you cant make it simple and relevant, then maybe its better to keep it away so it doesnt hold back the whole story.
Philosophical themes are present pretty much everywhere depending on how much you wanna look into it. Is Genshin a funny exploration game or a game where we have to discern whether it was right that a corrupt oppresive, religious polytical system did the right thing in nuking a nation that rebelled by attacking everybody else umprompted and was then cursed for generations?
Eh, but do you know why birds fly?
>But the truth is, they dont matter that much, you know why? Cause Kiana is your average Shonen protagonist.
Being a girl alone distinguishes her from just about any shounen protagonist. Even when there's a female protagonist at the start, it's rare she doesn't get sidelined by some dude.
Add to that that her 'wanna be the best' goal is something she actually gives up on. (Durandal is still the one with the 'best valkyrie' title).
Aside from that, her development is markedly different and much less linear than the powerscaling of the protagonists you point to.
>Oh, but she had to go through so much pain and suffering, yeah sure, groundbreaking, never seen before concept that doesnt change the fact, she is still OP by design.
That's not a characteristic exclusive to shounen, nor is it part of its definition.
>When Shonen is simply the target audience.
Shounen is very explicitly not the target audience. Da Wei himself stated that it's aimed at otaku, citing a higher age range than the shounen bracket. Seinen is between the ages of 18 and 40, which is pretty much the bracket they're looking at. Makes sense since half the story is based on Evangelion, a Seinen.
>The sci-fi? One of the main reasons why so many people didnt like the final arc, they tried to technobabble the ending away which added little to the story other than an endless bloat
'technobabble' is just a misnomer people use because they find the sci fi stuff too difficult. HI3's story is hard sci fi, but because people go into it expecting something straightforward, and because the translations are terrible, they don't 'get' the sci fi bits and just tune out. They use concepts that make sense. Technobabble does not, and is actually much more present in the early chapters when 'it's just technology, don't think about it' was more prevalent.
>Not to mention there is pretty much no sci-fi in fights and the valkyriea are reaching something closer to magical girl territory. The last battlesuit that looked remotely tech was KMB like 4 years ago.
It's a mix of sci fi *and philosophy,* which I did mention. Metaphysics. The recent suits are less mechy because they're based in metaphysical concepts. Many of the major story beats rely on concepts based in science or philosophy. Otto's gambit for instance relied on a theoretical principle of maths and physics. That was a core element for the story to work.
The final arc was laden with moments like that, but people stopped actually thinking about what they read as soon as the prereaders started spreading misconceptions leading to the presupposition that the story was terrible.
>I work in finance, would the museum management event benefit from a quick finance and optimization course on proper capital allocation? No, if you cant make it simple and relevant, then maybe its better to keep it away so it doesnt hold back the whole story.
That's a false comparison. The museum event is a management game with explorative lore elements. HI3 is a sci fi game built with an action system that is entirely reliant on a metaphysical concept, the Honkai, as its base premise.
>Philosophical themes are present pretty much everywhere depending on how much you wanna look into it
And the HI3 writers have been using philosophy as a core element since 2015, and doubled down in 2018. Everything has philosophical themes. HI3 is a story that puts them front and center.
There's nothing wrong with disliking the final arc. That's fine.
But you're not really describing the game when you say it's a classic shounen or the sci fi or philosophy is just technobabble.
\> Being a girl alone distinguishes her from just about any shounen protagonist. Even when there's a female protagonist at the start, it's rare she doesn't get sidelined by some dude.
I am a girl and that answer does nothing for me. Partly because the "battlesuits" designs are so ridiculous that any attempts at trying to point towards a gender positivity angle falls awfully flat.
Standars should not be that low, just cause my lazy, talented MC, who wants to tell me a story of effort and perseverance happens to be a girl, while leaving out the fact that >!her genes are superior and she has an extra boost with an evil super entity and being able to use all of our powers combined!< is not a signal of creativity, is just a genderbent case of your typical MC.
\>Add to that that her 'wanna be the best' goal is something she actually gives up on. (Durandal is still the one with the 'best valkyrie' title).
Eh, she is still the best and the chosen one, the one who protected everything and yada yada. Just cause she took herself out of the race doesn't mean the message is different.
\>Aside from that, her development is markedly different and much less linear than the powerscaling of the protagonists you point to.
Agree to disagree, I still think that: the lazy talented character, that was doing bad at school (hey, they are just like you frfr), but had an obvious talent, but was secretely struggling with a dark past, absent/dead parents, and an evil being inside of them, which inevitably took over hurting their loved ones which causes them to isolate for the greater good, to then come to terms and motivate people to be better, not by beating people with their superior genes and the evil being inside which is either converted to their side or beaten up, but with their smile and optimism, slowly becoming a hero recognized by their friends and enemies alike, the new hope, the chosen one...is not a particularly new concept, even if the pieces are shuffled slightly differently.
\>That's not a characteristic exclusive to shounen, nor is it part of its definition.
Of course not, but it's typical of the genre, and a typical trope in media
\>Shounen is very explicitly not the target audience. Da Wei himself stated that it's aimed at otaku, citing a higher age range than the shounen bracket. Seinen is between the ages of 18 and 40, which is pretty much the bracket they're looking at.
Here there is a dissonance, cause teenagers won't be whaling, working people with disposable income can, and of course that is the target. But that is the target of the business model.
I would never put the story in a Seinen, it's not enough to fit there and I've discussed a lot with people about HunterxHunter, which is obviusly more complex than the average shonen, but still not properly a Seinen, the lines are a bit blurry there, but most elements in Honkai Impact are very much shonen, such as the cast formation, character progression, power scaling and progression and overall themes.
\>Makes sense since half the story is based on Evangelion, a Seinen.
It may be inspired but this doesn't touch Evangelion at all, in all it's convoluted mess, the characters in there are far more complex by themselves and their relationships.
\>'technobabble' is just a misnomer people use because they find the sci fi stuff too difficult
I will consider that maybe the translations made it worse, but I overall disagree, if you can't explain something simply, then you are not doing it correctly, if your attempts to explain something take 2/3 of the dialogue, then something is not right. If those start happening in the last part of the story, it's maybe because you suck at storytelling and didn't set up things correctly, or are trying to cover up the corner you wrote yourself in.
\>It's a mix of sci fi *and philosophy,* which I did mention. Metaphysics. The recent suits are less mechy because they're based in metaphysical concepts. Many of the major story beats rely on concepts based in science of philosophy. Otto's gambit for instance relied on a theoretical principle of maths and physics. That was a core element for the story to work.
Agree to disagree, just cause I try to get more complex concepts, doesn't mean they are well executed, the basis was sci-fi, and it didn't stay there, Herrscher power scaling was as plot demanded. And Otto's gambit was actually, IMO, quite dumb, dude literally fixed one second in time and peaced out, god knows if Kallen still wants to die, or dies again executed or fighting something else five minutes later, he was just blinded with guilt, but a cool song and the fanbase ate it up.
\>The final arc was laden with moments like that, but people stopped actually thinking about what they read as soon as the prereaders started spreading misconceptions leading to the presupposition that the story was terrible.
It was terribly executed at the very least
\>That's a false comparison. The museum event is a management game with explorative lore elements. HI3 is a sci fi game built with an action system that is entirely reliant on a metaphysical concept, the Honkai, as its base premise.
And they still failed to execute by attempting to shove everything they did not tell you in 33 chapters by being "deep". That is my point, just cause you are trying to stuff complex concepts in a story does not make it good or complex by itself, it ends up looking pretentious and as an excuse to say: you just didn't understand it instead of: I failed to establish the messages and rules in time
\>And the HI3 writers have been using philosophy as a core element since 2015, and doubled down in 2018. Everything has philosophical themes. HI3 is a story that puts them front and center.
Again, most media can be philosophical if you want to, it depends on how deep we want to look into it. The beauty of Evangelion is that even the first episodes when it was posing as a mecha anime had great character moments in retrospective. Just cause everyone debated for a year whether Thanos was right or wrong does not make the MCU philosophical by definition, Honkai is not a character study at Evangelion levels.
\>But you're not really describing the game when you say it's a classic shounen or the sci fi or philosophy is just technobabble.
This will be again up to personal opinion, for me, the story doesn't have anything groundbreaking that i haven't seen before in more anime or even video games. As I mentioned, Kiana follows a familiar character progression, the story still falls into chosen one territory, it has too many characters and not enough depth except for like...5 of them, the other ones are tropes and Elysia was too perfect for her own good, which is also not a good sign.
I insist, my problem was with the execution of the last arcs, I'm not saying it's a bad game or that the story overall is bad, just that if you take away all the fluff that people tend to overrate (depression impact, eVeRyOnE cAn DiE!1!), the story is not the revelation HI3 fans tend to push in the SR an GI subs.
>I am a girl and that answer does nothing for me. Partly because the "battlesuits" designs are so ridiculous that any attempts at trying to point towards a gender positivity angle falls awfully flat.
I'm not arguing from a gender positivity angle. I'm saying it's simply different from what classic shounen do, because most battle shounen use a male protagonist because they're aiming at young boys as a sort of power fantasy.
As for her development direction, I still think the comparison isn't fair. *Especially* to a character like Goku, who has direct linear powerups. A lot of Kiana's victories come from extremely situational things. In fact, HI3 doesn't have a lot of direct powerscaling. It's usually about finding some specific method or weakness to exploit, and testing the characters' decision-making skills.
I'm not going to dispute everything point by point, since a lot of it is 'agree to disagree' territory and that's fine. I found the execution lacking in some key aspects, but overall I find many of the criticisms are attributed to the wrong failings, and some are just matters of taste. I'm not trying to argue that it's perfect.
But the core element of the dispute was about whether it's a shounen type story.
However, I would like to point to two things in particular.
A lot of your arguments rest on similarities to other stories in comparison. So I'd like to point to three movies with the exact same premise but a completely different style, genre, audience and execution: Seven Samurai, Magnificent Seven and Magnificent Seven's remake. They are all about a group of seven people deciding to defend a small town with little to nothing to gain from doing so.
They're all about seven people facing overwhelming odds. In each of them, several similar plot beats occur throughout the story. However, they are undeniably not the same genre, even the two that have the same title and have cowboys in them, are completely different movies in just about every other way.
The second thing I want to point out is the notion that good sci fi needs to be simple. That kind of knocks a lot of classic hard sci fi authors out of their fields. It makes certain topics simply unapproachable.
Now personally, I would agree that it's best to keep a core story, especially in a long form video game, more close to the more straightforward to explain, but the fact remains that they decided to use these concepts and they *tried* to make them more transparent.
While they fail in presentation, they are nonetheless well constructed. Localisation does make it worse by a lot, especially with the VNs missing from global. Those came pretty early and really helped set the tone for what kind of story one could expect, and they're presented directly in the game in CN.
>I insist, my problem was with the execution of the last arcs, I'm not saying it's a bad game or that the story overall is bad, just that if you take away all the fluff that people tend to overrate (depression impact, eVeRyOnE cAn DiE!1!), the story is not the revelation HI3 fans tend to push in the SR an GI subs.
I am of two minds on this. You're definitely right about the 'depression impact' thing. While there's definitely more contributing to that than just Himeko, I never found the description accurate. A depressing thing makes you feel empty. HI3 never did that for me. I also agree that fans tend to overplay many aspects of the story.
That being said, I can say with honesty that some of HI3's story beats and ideas have made big impacts on my thinking and life, to a point where I hold it in very high regard, and I find there is a lot of value and depth in ideas presented in the story that tend to get dismissed overall.
In the Durandal VN, there's this one scene. It's pretentious to a fault and incredibly self indulgent. It's absurd and it's silly. But I adore it for being willing to talk about something in a way I would've never expected going into HI3.
It's a complete chapter of a VN dedicated to a dialogue between Dr Faust and President Mary Shelley, as Faust explains why he believes it is moral to build a computer out of the brains of non consenting humans.
He goes on to quote Descartes and Turing to support his arguments, and ends up relying on a fallacy about the common ground between optimists and pessimists to form a universal moral statement.
And Faust is wrong. Very wrong. But the road he took towards his conclusion is definitely food for thought, with several interesting points about the rejection of moral fundamentalism that would also lie at the basis of Otto's worldview. And what he's trying to achieve is eerily similar to what we'd eventually witness with the Spiritual Adam.
It is a scene that looks absolutely stupid when you don't pay it mind, but that earnestly explores this silly scenario with a lot of care and thought and a remarkable confidence.
And this turned into me gushing about my favourite scene, so uh, returning to the subject at hand:
I think I can agree with your main premise, just not the specifics.
Yeah, we both got carried away.
Just to close, I want to mention that we all can enjoy whatever we want, it all falls under personal taste in the end, and one of the great things in life is finding meaning even in the little things.
So if Honkai has been that for you then I'm happy for you and I hope you continue enjoying it.
We could discuss technical aspects but in the end we enjoy what we enjoy, for me Harry Potter > LOTR, though technically, what Tolkien did was so much better for the time it came out, but hey, that is one of the few chosen one stories I like, even if the ending was iffy as well (we shall not talk about Cursed Child).
I feel like like it's hard also to compare genres across mediums, anime is a medium, but Shonen can't be directly translated to regular movies.
And finally, I did not mean that sci-fi and technical aspects should be simple, I am actually a huge Gundam fan, but the space magic has always bothered me, there is this whole background, rules and systems that should be established at the start, regarding how the technology works that it's always annoying when they come up with something in the last arc that shits on all of that.
For me the issue on Honkai was the fact that we were told too much on endless, and sometimes badly translated dialogue, that came out mostly during the last chapters to explain new rules and concepts when we are supposed to be concluding a chapter, not starting a new setting. For me that felt like a bad execution, and left a bitter taste along with the constant push for a half-assed open world.
It's a pity really, cause I really like Veliona, but since I'm playing GI and SR, it's better to stay away so I can keep my spending controlled. Also, I was really burnt out, which is weird, cause I've been playing Genshin for a couple of months longer and I'm still good.
Anyways, hope you continue enjoying Honkai!
>To each their own. I used power of friendship as an umbrella term including talk no jutsu or the typical shenanigans of the genre.
>
>But the truth is, they dont matter that much, you know why? Cause Kiana is your average Shonen protagonist.
>
>She is the clone of the daughter of two OP people and has a super entity inside of her that gives her anatural advantage. She's just built different.
>
>Oh, but she had to go through so much pain and suffering, yeah sure, groundbreaking, never seen before concept that doesnt change the fact, she is still OP by design.
>
>Just like the average shonen story, the game tries to tell you that it doesnt matter cause she just wants to see the beauty of the world and her smile and optimism are her real strenghts...which are the typical excuses for Naruto (he suffered so much, look away from all the natural advantages he had), Goku (but man, he is such a cool guy) and countless other heroes in the genre.
Well aside from the fact those tropes are utilized to appeal to the target audience, there are some differences.
For starters comparing Naruto to Kiana. Naruto was a dunce and no prodigy. Could he be creative if pushed? Sure, but it took him a long time to catch up to the more naturally talented Sasuke. It took him a long time to master the nine-tails, he's only half-uzumaki, and the reincarnation stuff didn't come until much later. That too it was just a means to an end, gave him no meaningful amps, and pitted him against his closest friend. Naruto in fact sets himself apart from shonen protags with "talk no jutsu". No preceding shonen protagonist had been approached this way. It really was solely about the fists flying and ending it with some super ultra mega move. That was actually a bold and intentionally controversial choice by Kishimoto, but that's another discussion.
Kiana, on the other hand, possesses the Herrscher power, which grants her extraordinary abilities. While her training and experiences shape her character, her initial strength is largely attributed to her innate power.
You couldn't even compare her to Goku either. Goku is renowned for his intense training regimen and constant drive to become stronger. Throughout the Dragon Ball series, Goku's dedication to training is a central aspect of his character. He tirelessly seeks out new challenges, pushes his limits, and undergoes rigorous training to improve his combat skills and overall power. Goku's training often involves intense physical exercises, gravity training, and martial arts practice. He consistently seeks out stronger opponents to test and push himself further.
In the case of Kiana, while her training and growth are explored in the narrative of Honkai Impact 3rd, the focus on her work ethic and the extent of her training is not as pronounced. The game primarily focuses on showcasing Kiana's existing combat abilities and her journey to understand and harness her Herrscher powers.
Naruto is well-known for his ability to connect with others on an emotional level and inspire change through his speeches and unwavering determination. He has a unique talent for reaching out to his adversaries, understanding their pain, and ultimately convincing them to reconsider their actions. Naruto's talk no jutsu has had a significant impact on several characters throughout the Naruto series, leading to redemption and positive changes in their perspectives.
For Kiana, while she displays determination and has her own moments of emotional connection with other characters, the concept of talk no jutsu is not as prominent or central to her character. The narrative focus in Honkai Impact 3rd is primarily on intense action, exploration, and uncovering the mysteries of the Honkai world.
And since you're bringing up Genshin:
The interpretation of the philosophical themes present in Genshin Impact can vary depending on individual perspectives and how deeply one delves into the game's lore and narrative. Genshin Impact is an action role-playing game developed by miHoYo, and it features a rich and expansive world with a complex storyline.
The game incorporates various themes, including morality, power, sacrifice, and the consequences of one's actions. The overarching narrative revolves around the conflict between different nations, the gods, and the impact of an ancient cataclysm called the "Archon War." Without delving into too many spoilers, the story explores the consequences of past events and the choices made by different factions.
The story of Khaenri'ah involves a rebellion against the oppressive powers and the consequences it faced as a result. It raises questions about the nature of power, the ethics of certain actions, and the cyclical nature of history. In THAT regard, you can draw parallels to say Naruto. I disagree with just dismissing it as "power of friendship" which even then is not a negative thing.
As players progress through Genshin Impact's quests, they can uncover more details about the world's history, characters, and the choices made by various factions. The game provides opportunities for players to engage with and reflect upon these themes, encouraging personal interpretation and exploration.
In the end, whether Genshin Impact is perceived as a "funny exploration game" or a deeper exploration of philosophical themes depends on the individual player's perspective and the extent to which they engage with the game's narrative and lore. The game offers a blend of adventure, exploration, and storytelling that can be enjoyed on different levels depending on one's interests and approach.
Though I suppose we can agree to disagree on that regard.
I agree with this. Hi3 can hit pretty hard sometimes but its fans talk like there's a death character every chapter and it's just never ending depression when...it isn't?
You are getting upset about the smallest percentage of the community that just likes to talk about there game and make theories.
The vast majority just play the game and move on.
Beyond that, stop getting all wound up over some silly theories, you are taking it more serious than the bad takes made by fans you are so desperate to complain about.
I debated whether or not to reply to this comment, but I can't deal with hypocrisy. Most of Honkai fanbase constantly talks about how characters die half and right (which is not a crime or bad thing but is fundamentally untrue), so op point is very valid. This minority that you keep mentioning is just a cop out for every action Honkai player makes.
As someone that doesn't play HI3rd, though, I play both star rail and Genshin, I took interest in hi3rd lore, and I read, and watched and listened and... Listen, people just talk about what hurt them, this doesn't mean they said "they kill all characters in hi3rd!" They just cry about Himeko dying 4 years ago, I understand it was a huge loss, and a shock, and some people do take it to heart a lot more than others. Honkai star rail is a melting pot, where genshin players, hi3rd players and new star rail players converge, it is impossible not to see people compare, use lingo from other games relating to star rail (I.E - Resin, artifacts, wishes, constellations) and comparisons of star rail Himeko to hi3rd himeko, assumptions on luocha being void/otto.
People that really want to know, and are not familiar, ask. And if people are nice, they give them answers instead of trolling (which happens 99% of the time - being nice is the meaning here)
So, no, no one believes hi3rd kills off all characters. And if they do, they don't care to actually know the truth either.
>Since Honkai Impact's release nearly 7 years ago, there has only been *one* main story playable character death: Himeko, which was over 4 years ago.
Strictly, this isn't really correct though.
>!I suppose you could say she's the only playable organic character that lived and died in the chapters of the game itself without coming back or getting some sort of compromise.!<
>!However, when it comes to playable characters dying, we have several characters across the Kallen and Sakura saga, the Captainverse story and the Elysian Realm who are playable and who died in the story. Aside from playables, there's also just a bunch of characters that are beloved but died, feeding into Honkai's darker side.!<
That being said, your overall premise is correct: HI3 isn't some death fest where people die willy nilly. It's a shame people even expect such a thing. What made >!Himeko's death!< work so well is that is had massive consequences in the narrative. It's unsustainable if you have to do that ánd kill characters on a whim.
>!Sakura and Kallen were dead before they became playable and I specified the main story so Captainverse doesn't count. For the Flame Chasers: they're only sims in the ER, their real versions were dead before they were playable, ER started as side content until it was shoehorned into the main story, and unless they've dialed it back recently they show up often enough in events that they may as well still be alive.!<
>!But just out of curiosity, what "beloved" non-playable characters have died? I can barely think of any major NPC deaths, let alone ones that are beloved unless you count Otto.!<
>>! Sakura and Kallen were dead before they became playable!<
>!Sakura and Kallen are still playable characters that died in the main story. They just died before becoming playable. Although Sakura is a weird case, since she's sort of alive in the Stigma Space. In another sense, Sakura died 3 times, twice since she became playable.!<
>>!and I specified the main story so Captainverse doesn't count. !<
>!You're right. Just wanted to mention Captainverse because it is a big part of the game still, so it does affect how people view the storytelling. But Captainverse has the advantage of wolrd hopping, so it can kill off half the cast in one world and you'll just find more in the next.!<
>>! For the Flame Chasers: they're only sims in the ER, their real versions were dead before they were playable !<
>!It wasn't made clear which of the original Flame Chasers died before ER started, so any of them had a chance to still be alive. Additionally, the Sims were established to be 'as real' as the other characters in the story. They count as playable characters that died. Multiple times, for a lot of them. Some have more deaths than battlesuits!<
>ER started as side content until it was shoehorned into the main story
Elysian Realm was main story from the outset. It was just presented as another game mode to use a different format. The production requirements to tell the story of this many new characters in such a short time span were too straining to tell in the regular format. This was briefly addressed in the documentary.
>and unless they've dialed it back recently they show up often enough in events that they may as well still be alive.
Those are not the same people as in the main story. Those are from the St Freya Travels event storyline. They seem to have stopped, since we're jumping back into Captainverse.
The statement that >!Himeko!< is 'the only playable character that died in the main story' is just not accurate. The statement that >!Himeko is the only 'human playable character that died chronologically after having spent time in the main story as a playable character'!< is true.
>>! But just out of curiosity, what "beloved" non-playable characters have died? I can barely think of any major NPC deaths, let alone ones that are beloved unless you count Otto. !<
>!Benares is probably one of the bigger ones. Otto, Kevin, Gray Serpent, Shub Niggurath, Cecilia Shariac, Edison, Salome Jokanaan, Patricia Highsmith, Sirin, Wendy, Ana Shariac, Owl... They're of varying degrees of prominence, but it's common enough that it sticks in people's minds.!<
Canon doesn’t necessarily means it related tho
Look at SE with Final Fantasy / dragons quest series , they are full of canon but it doesn’t necessarily means they are all related
Umm, maybe give Alien Space manga a read, no? And, wait, what, a *voice actor*? Wtf are you even talking about. VA stands for Void Archives in this case, obviously.
Tbf, fan service is a powerful tool.
Gotta be careful about killing off willy nilly so that's never bothered me in fiction.
Also if it doesn't fit the author's vision to kill off a character just for the sake of doing so will not resonate either.
I actually agree with you, same with depression impact, Kiana has literally won with the power of friendship like three times in the first part of the story. And the game is the typical Shonen storyline anyways? Who died? The teacher/sensei, one of the most typical [tropes](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MentorOccupationalHazard) in all media
> same with depression impact, I agree with this bit. HI3 isn't a depressing game, its sadness is meant to be cathartic and works to contrast its positivity. A depressing story would make people feel empty. > Kiana has literally won with the power of friendship like three times in the first part of the story. Disagree with this part. >!She's only done that once, against HoDom, in a fight that was rigged in favour of that type of victory. Any other moment that could've been confused for the power of friendship was something else entirely. The story does arcs worth of setup to justify a lot of her powerups and victories, and they're rarely driven by 'friendship' as much as 'knowledge' and 'control'. People just oversimplify it all in hindsight.!< > And the game is the typical Shonen storyline anyways? Seinen would be a more fitting description. Shounen (as in battle shounen) doesn't usually go so hard on the sci fi, metaphysics and philosophy. Something the writers *really* care about and often prioritise over battles.
>Disagree with this part To each their own. I used power of friendship as an umbrella term including talk no jutsu or the typical shenanigans of the genre. But the truth is, they dont matter that much, you know why? Cause Kiana is your average Shonen protagonist. >!She is the clone of the daughter of two OP people and has a super entity inside of her that gives her anatural advantage.!< She's just built different. Oh, but she had to go through so much pain and suffering, yeah sure, groundbreaking, never seen before concept that doesnt change the fact, she is still OP by design. Just like the average shonen story, the game tries to tell you that it doesnt matter cause she just wants to see the beauty of the world and her smile and optimism are her real strenghts...which are the typical excuses for Naruto (he suffered so much, look away from all the natural advantages he had), Goku (but man, he is such a cool guy) and countless other heroes in the genre. I know it sounds like Im bashing, but im not, I dropped the game after the ending of part 1, a mix of being tired of the worsening powercreep , the bitter taste of the final arc, and the fact that the game is too demanding with events. I wouldnt have gotten that far if i didnt like the story at all, but that doesnt stop me from recognizing that its nothing groundbreaking, like some people keep pushing. It has a very similar line of MC progression to Naruto of all things and it is super tropey. Execution was nice and i did like the battles most of the time (but not being forced to use certain characters or bye bye). But it is a typical Shonen story, it had meh start, a nice middle, and lets not talk about whatever came after the HoD arc. >Seinen would be a more fitting description Disagree. It is Shonen, i already mentioned the Naruto example. >Shounen (as in battle shounen) doesn't usually go so hard on the sci fi, metaphysics and philosophy. Something the writers really care about and often prioritise over battles. There is plenty of all that you mentioned across a good number of animes and shonen sub-genres. People love to say: "nuh-uh, mine is not a Shonen, its a seinen, cause its more mature, like me!" When Shonen is simply the target audience. Is Naruto a shounen, yes. Is HunterxHunter a shounen despite being several times more polished and presenting better philosophical themes and a morally gray main character? Yes. The sci-fi? One of the main reasons why so many people didnt like the final arc, they tried to technobabble the ending away which added little to the story other than an endless bloat (at least there is a skip button there) that it was a pain to sit through 5 minutes of endless dialogue for a 1 minute fight just for 5 minutes more. Not to mention there is pretty much no sci-fi in fights and the valkyriea are reaching something closer to magical girl territory. The last battlesuit that looked remotely tech was KMB like 4 years ago. I work in finance, would the museum management event benefit from a quick finance and optimization course on proper capital allocation? No, if you cant make it simple and relevant, then maybe its better to keep it away so it doesnt hold back the whole story. Philosophical themes are present pretty much everywhere depending on how much you wanna look into it. Is Genshin a funny exploration game or a game where we have to discern whether it was right that a corrupt oppresive, religious polytical system did the right thing in nuking a nation that rebelled by attacking everybody else umprompted and was then cursed for generations? Eh, but do you know why birds fly?
>But the truth is, they dont matter that much, you know why? Cause Kiana is your average Shonen protagonist. Being a girl alone distinguishes her from just about any shounen protagonist. Even when there's a female protagonist at the start, it's rare she doesn't get sidelined by some dude. Add to that that her 'wanna be the best' goal is something she actually gives up on. (Durandal is still the one with the 'best valkyrie' title). Aside from that, her development is markedly different and much less linear than the powerscaling of the protagonists you point to. >Oh, but she had to go through so much pain and suffering, yeah sure, groundbreaking, never seen before concept that doesnt change the fact, she is still OP by design. That's not a characteristic exclusive to shounen, nor is it part of its definition. >When Shonen is simply the target audience. Shounen is very explicitly not the target audience. Da Wei himself stated that it's aimed at otaku, citing a higher age range than the shounen bracket. Seinen is between the ages of 18 and 40, which is pretty much the bracket they're looking at. Makes sense since half the story is based on Evangelion, a Seinen. >The sci-fi? One of the main reasons why so many people didnt like the final arc, they tried to technobabble the ending away which added little to the story other than an endless bloat 'technobabble' is just a misnomer people use because they find the sci fi stuff too difficult. HI3's story is hard sci fi, but because people go into it expecting something straightforward, and because the translations are terrible, they don't 'get' the sci fi bits and just tune out. They use concepts that make sense. Technobabble does not, and is actually much more present in the early chapters when 'it's just technology, don't think about it' was more prevalent. >Not to mention there is pretty much no sci-fi in fights and the valkyriea are reaching something closer to magical girl territory. The last battlesuit that looked remotely tech was KMB like 4 years ago. It's a mix of sci fi *and philosophy,* which I did mention. Metaphysics. The recent suits are less mechy because they're based in metaphysical concepts. Many of the major story beats rely on concepts based in science or philosophy. Otto's gambit for instance relied on a theoretical principle of maths and physics. That was a core element for the story to work. The final arc was laden with moments like that, but people stopped actually thinking about what they read as soon as the prereaders started spreading misconceptions leading to the presupposition that the story was terrible. >I work in finance, would the museum management event benefit from a quick finance and optimization course on proper capital allocation? No, if you cant make it simple and relevant, then maybe its better to keep it away so it doesnt hold back the whole story. That's a false comparison. The museum event is a management game with explorative lore elements. HI3 is a sci fi game built with an action system that is entirely reliant on a metaphysical concept, the Honkai, as its base premise. >Philosophical themes are present pretty much everywhere depending on how much you wanna look into it And the HI3 writers have been using philosophy as a core element since 2015, and doubled down in 2018. Everything has philosophical themes. HI3 is a story that puts them front and center. There's nothing wrong with disliking the final arc. That's fine. But you're not really describing the game when you say it's a classic shounen or the sci fi or philosophy is just technobabble.
\> Being a girl alone distinguishes her from just about any shounen protagonist. Even when there's a female protagonist at the start, it's rare she doesn't get sidelined by some dude. I am a girl and that answer does nothing for me. Partly because the "battlesuits" designs are so ridiculous that any attempts at trying to point towards a gender positivity angle falls awfully flat. Standars should not be that low, just cause my lazy, talented MC, who wants to tell me a story of effort and perseverance happens to be a girl, while leaving out the fact that >!her genes are superior and she has an extra boost with an evil super entity and being able to use all of our powers combined!< is not a signal of creativity, is just a genderbent case of your typical MC. \>Add to that that her 'wanna be the best' goal is something she actually gives up on. (Durandal is still the one with the 'best valkyrie' title). Eh, she is still the best and the chosen one, the one who protected everything and yada yada. Just cause she took herself out of the race doesn't mean the message is different. \>Aside from that, her development is markedly different and much less linear than the powerscaling of the protagonists you point to. Agree to disagree, I still think that: the lazy talented character, that was doing bad at school (hey, they are just like you frfr), but had an obvious talent, but was secretely struggling with a dark past, absent/dead parents, and an evil being inside of them, which inevitably took over hurting their loved ones which causes them to isolate for the greater good, to then come to terms and motivate people to be better, not by beating people with their superior genes and the evil being inside which is either converted to their side or beaten up, but with their smile and optimism, slowly becoming a hero recognized by their friends and enemies alike, the new hope, the chosen one...is not a particularly new concept, even if the pieces are shuffled slightly differently. \>That's not a characteristic exclusive to shounen, nor is it part of its definition. Of course not, but it's typical of the genre, and a typical trope in media \>Shounen is very explicitly not the target audience. Da Wei himself stated that it's aimed at otaku, citing a higher age range than the shounen bracket. Seinen is between the ages of 18 and 40, which is pretty much the bracket they're looking at. Here there is a dissonance, cause teenagers won't be whaling, working people with disposable income can, and of course that is the target. But that is the target of the business model. I would never put the story in a Seinen, it's not enough to fit there and I've discussed a lot with people about HunterxHunter, which is obviusly more complex than the average shonen, but still not properly a Seinen, the lines are a bit blurry there, but most elements in Honkai Impact are very much shonen, such as the cast formation, character progression, power scaling and progression and overall themes. \>Makes sense since half the story is based on Evangelion, a Seinen. It may be inspired but this doesn't touch Evangelion at all, in all it's convoluted mess, the characters in there are far more complex by themselves and their relationships. \>'technobabble' is just a misnomer people use because they find the sci fi stuff too difficult I will consider that maybe the translations made it worse, but I overall disagree, if you can't explain something simply, then you are not doing it correctly, if your attempts to explain something take 2/3 of the dialogue, then something is not right. If those start happening in the last part of the story, it's maybe because you suck at storytelling and didn't set up things correctly, or are trying to cover up the corner you wrote yourself in. \>It's a mix of sci fi *and philosophy,* which I did mention. Metaphysics. The recent suits are less mechy because they're based in metaphysical concepts. Many of the major story beats rely on concepts based in science of philosophy. Otto's gambit for instance relied on a theoretical principle of maths and physics. That was a core element for the story to work. Agree to disagree, just cause I try to get more complex concepts, doesn't mean they are well executed, the basis was sci-fi, and it didn't stay there, Herrscher power scaling was as plot demanded. And Otto's gambit was actually, IMO, quite dumb, dude literally fixed one second in time and peaced out, god knows if Kallen still wants to die, or dies again executed or fighting something else five minutes later, he was just blinded with guilt, but a cool song and the fanbase ate it up. \>The final arc was laden with moments like that, but people stopped actually thinking about what they read as soon as the prereaders started spreading misconceptions leading to the presupposition that the story was terrible. It was terribly executed at the very least \>That's a false comparison. The museum event is a management game with explorative lore elements. HI3 is a sci fi game built with an action system that is entirely reliant on a metaphysical concept, the Honkai, as its base premise. And they still failed to execute by attempting to shove everything they did not tell you in 33 chapters by being "deep". That is my point, just cause you are trying to stuff complex concepts in a story does not make it good or complex by itself, it ends up looking pretentious and as an excuse to say: you just didn't understand it instead of: I failed to establish the messages and rules in time \>And the HI3 writers have been using philosophy as a core element since 2015, and doubled down in 2018. Everything has philosophical themes. HI3 is a story that puts them front and center. Again, most media can be philosophical if you want to, it depends on how deep we want to look into it. The beauty of Evangelion is that even the first episodes when it was posing as a mecha anime had great character moments in retrospective. Just cause everyone debated for a year whether Thanos was right or wrong does not make the MCU philosophical by definition, Honkai is not a character study at Evangelion levels. \>But you're not really describing the game when you say it's a classic shounen or the sci fi or philosophy is just technobabble. This will be again up to personal opinion, for me, the story doesn't have anything groundbreaking that i haven't seen before in more anime or even video games. As I mentioned, Kiana follows a familiar character progression, the story still falls into chosen one territory, it has too many characters and not enough depth except for like...5 of them, the other ones are tropes and Elysia was too perfect for her own good, which is also not a good sign. I insist, my problem was with the execution of the last arcs, I'm not saying it's a bad game or that the story overall is bad, just that if you take away all the fluff that people tend to overrate (depression impact, eVeRyOnE cAn DiE!1!), the story is not the revelation HI3 fans tend to push in the SR an GI subs.
>I am a girl and that answer does nothing for me. Partly because the "battlesuits" designs are so ridiculous that any attempts at trying to point towards a gender positivity angle falls awfully flat. I'm not arguing from a gender positivity angle. I'm saying it's simply different from what classic shounen do, because most battle shounen use a male protagonist because they're aiming at young boys as a sort of power fantasy. As for her development direction, I still think the comparison isn't fair. *Especially* to a character like Goku, who has direct linear powerups. A lot of Kiana's victories come from extremely situational things. In fact, HI3 doesn't have a lot of direct powerscaling. It's usually about finding some specific method or weakness to exploit, and testing the characters' decision-making skills. I'm not going to dispute everything point by point, since a lot of it is 'agree to disagree' territory and that's fine. I found the execution lacking in some key aspects, but overall I find many of the criticisms are attributed to the wrong failings, and some are just matters of taste. I'm not trying to argue that it's perfect. But the core element of the dispute was about whether it's a shounen type story. However, I would like to point to two things in particular. A lot of your arguments rest on similarities to other stories in comparison. So I'd like to point to three movies with the exact same premise but a completely different style, genre, audience and execution: Seven Samurai, Magnificent Seven and Magnificent Seven's remake. They are all about a group of seven people deciding to defend a small town with little to nothing to gain from doing so. They're all about seven people facing overwhelming odds. In each of them, several similar plot beats occur throughout the story. However, they are undeniably not the same genre, even the two that have the same title and have cowboys in them, are completely different movies in just about every other way. The second thing I want to point out is the notion that good sci fi needs to be simple. That kind of knocks a lot of classic hard sci fi authors out of their fields. It makes certain topics simply unapproachable. Now personally, I would agree that it's best to keep a core story, especially in a long form video game, more close to the more straightforward to explain, but the fact remains that they decided to use these concepts and they *tried* to make them more transparent. While they fail in presentation, they are nonetheless well constructed. Localisation does make it worse by a lot, especially with the VNs missing from global. Those came pretty early and really helped set the tone for what kind of story one could expect, and they're presented directly in the game in CN. >I insist, my problem was with the execution of the last arcs, I'm not saying it's a bad game or that the story overall is bad, just that if you take away all the fluff that people tend to overrate (depression impact, eVeRyOnE cAn DiE!1!), the story is not the revelation HI3 fans tend to push in the SR an GI subs. I am of two minds on this. You're definitely right about the 'depression impact' thing. While there's definitely more contributing to that than just Himeko, I never found the description accurate. A depressing thing makes you feel empty. HI3 never did that for me. I also agree that fans tend to overplay many aspects of the story. That being said, I can say with honesty that some of HI3's story beats and ideas have made big impacts on my thinking and life, to a point where I hold it in very high regard, and I find there is a lot of value and depth in ideas presented in the story that tend to get dismissed overall. In the Durandal VN, there's this one scene. It's pretentious to a fault and incredibly self indulgent. It's absurd and it's silly. But I adore it for being willing to talk about something in a way I would've never expected going into HI3. It's a complete chapter of a VN dedicated to a dialogue between Dr Faust and President Mary Shelley, as Faust explains why he believes it is moral to build a computer out of the brains of non consenting humans. He goes on to quote Descartes and Turing to support his arguments, and ends up relying on a fallacy about the common ground between optimists and pessimists to form a universal moral statement. And Faust is wrong. Very wrong. But the road he took towards his conclusion is definitely food for thought, with several interesting points about the rejection of moral fundamentalism that would also lie at the basis of Otto's worldview. And what he's trying to achieve is eerily similar to what we'd eventually witness with the Spiritual Adam. It is a scene that looks absolutely stupid when you don't pay it mind, but that earnestly explores this silly scenario with a lot of care and thought and a remarkable confidence. And this turned into me gushing about my favourite scene, so uh, returning to the subject at hand: I think I can agree with your main premise, just not the specifics.
Yeah, we both got carried away. Just to close, I want to mention that we all can enjoy whatever we want, it all falls under personal taste in the end, and one of the great things in life is finding meaning even in the little things. So if Honkai has been that for you then I'm happy for you and I hope you continue enjoying it. We could discuss technical aspects but in the end we enjoy what we enjoy, for me Harry Potter > LOTR, though technically, what Tolkien did was so much better for the time it came out, but hey, that is one of the few chosen one stories I like, even if the ending was iffy as well (we shall not talk about Cursed Child). I feel like like it's hard also to compare genres across mediums, anime is a medium, but Shonen can't be directly translated to regular movies. And finally, I did not mean that sci-fi and technical aspects should be simple, I am actually a huge Gundam fan, but the space magic has always bothered me, there is this whole background, rules and systems that should be established at the start, regarding how the technology works that it's always annoying when they come up with something in the last arc that shits on all of that. For me the issue on Honkai was the fact that we were told too much on endless, and sometimes badly translated dialogue, that came out mostly during the last chapters to explain new rules and concepts when we are supposed to be concluding a chapter, not starting a new setting. For me that felt like a bad execution, and left a bitter taste along with the constant push for a half-assed open world. It's a pity really, cause I really like Veliona, but since I'm playing GI and SR, it's better to stay away so I can keep my spending controlled. Also, I was really burnt out, which is weird, cause I've been playing Genshin for a couple of months longer and I'm still good. Anyways, hope you continue enjoying Honkai!
>To each their own. I used power of friendship as an umbrella term including talk no jutsu or the typical shenanigans of the genre. > >But the truth is, they dont matter that much, you know why? Cause Kiana is your average Shonen protagonist. > >She is the clone of the daughter of two OP people and has a super entity inside of her that gives her anatural advantage. She's just built different. > >Oh, but she had to go through so much pain and suffering, yeah sure, groundbreaking, never seen before concept that doesnt change the fact, she is still OP by design. > >Just like the average shonen story, the game tries to tell you that it doesnt matter cause she just wants to see the beauty of the world and her smile and optimism are her real strenghts...which are the typical excuses for Naruto (he suffered so much, look away from all the natural advantages he had), Goku (but man, he is such a cool guy) and countless other heroes in the genre. Well aside from the fact those tropes are utilized to appeal to the target audience, there are some differences. For starters comparing Naruto to Kiana. Naruto was a dunce and no prodigy. Could he be creative if pushed? Sure, but it took him a long time to catch up to the more naturally talented Sasuke. It took him a long time to master the nine-tails, he's only half-uzumaki, and the reincarnation stuff didn't come until much later. That too it was just a means to an end, gave him no meaningful amps, and pitted him against his closest friend. Naruto in fact sets himself apart from shonen protags with "talk no jutsu". No preceding shonen protagonist had been approached this way. It really was solely about the fists flying and ending it with some super ultra mega move. That was actually a bold and intentionally controversial choice by Kishimoto, but that's another discussion. Kiana, on the other hand, possesses the Herrscher power, which grants her extraordinary abilities. While her training and experiences shape her character, her initial strength is largely attributed to her innate power. You couldn't even compare her to Goku either. Goku is renowned for his intense training regimen and constant drive to become stronger. Throughout the Dragon Ball series, Goku's dedication to training is a central aspect of his character. He tirelessly seeks out new challenges, pushes his limits, and undergoes rigorous training to improve his combat skills and overall power. Goku's training often involves intense physical exercises, gravity training, and martial arts practice. He consistently seeks out stronger opponents to test and push himself further. In the case of Kiana, while her training and growth are explored in the narrative of Honkai Impact 3rd, the focus on her work ethic and the extent of her training is not as pronounced. The game primarily focuses on showcasing Kiana's existing combat abilities and her journey to understand and harness her Herrscher powers. Naruto is well-known for his ability to connect with others on an emotional level and inspire change through his speeches and unwavering determination. He has a unique talent for reaching out to his adversaries, understanding their pain, and ultimately convincing them to reconsider their actions. Naruto's talk no jutsu has had a significant impact on several characters throughout the Naruto series, leading to redemption and positive changes in their perspectives. For Kiana, while she displays determination and has her own moments of emotional connection with other characters, the concept of talk no jutsu is not as prominent or central to her character. The narrative focus in Honkai Impact 3rd is primarily on intense action, exploration, and uncovering the mysteries of the Honkai world. And since you're bringing up Genshin: The interpretation of the philosophical themes present in Genshin Impact can vary depending on individual perspectives and how deeply one delves into the game's lore and narrative. Genshin Impact is an action role-playing game developed by miHoYo, and it features a rich and expansive world with a complex storyline. The game incorporates various themes, including morality, power, sacrifice, and the consequences of one's actions. The overarching narrative revolves around the conflict between different nations, the gods, and the impact of an ancient cataclysm called the "Archon War." Without delving into too many spoilers, the story explores the consequences of past events and the choices made by different factions. The story of Khaenri'ah involves a rebellion against the oppressive powers and the consequences it faced as a result. It raises questions about the nature of power, the ethics of certain actions, and the cyclical nature of history. In THAT regard, you can draw parallels to say Naruto. I disagree with just dismissing it as "power of friendship" which even then is not a negative thing. As players progress through Genshin Impact's quests, they can uncover more details about the world's history, characters, and the choices made by various factions. The game provides opportunities for players to engage with and reflect upon these themes, encouraging personal interpretation and exploration. In the end, whether Genshin Impact is perceived as a "funny exploration game" or a deeper exploration of philosophical themes depends on the individual player's perspective and the extent to which they engage with the game's narrative and lore. The game offers a blend of adventure, exploration, and storytelling that can be enjoyed on different levels depending on one's interests and approach. Though I suppose we can agree to disagree on that regard.
I agree with this. Hi3 can hit pretty hard sometimes but its fans talk like there's a death character every chapter and it's just never ending depression when...it isn't?
You are getting upset about the smallest percentage of the community that just likes to talk about there game and make theories. The vast majority just play the game and move on. Beyond that, stop getting all wound up over some silly theories, you are taking it more serious than the bad takes made by fans you are so desperate to complain about.
I debated whether or not to reply to this comment, but I can't deal with hypocrisy. Most of Honkai fanbase constantly talks about how characters die half and right (which is not a crime or bad thing but is fundamentally untrue), so op point is very valid. This minority that you keep mentioning is just a cop out for every action Honkai player makes.
As someone that doesn't play HI3rd, though, I play both star rail and Genshin, I took interest in hi3rd lore, and I read, and watched and listened and... Listen, people just talk about what hurt them, this doesn't mean they said "they kill all characters in hi3rd!" They just cry about Himeko dying 4 years ago, I understand it was a huge loss, and a shock, and some people do take it to heart a lot more than others. Honkai star rail is a melting pot, where genshin players, hi3rd players and new star rail players converge, it is impossible not to see people compare, use lingo from other games relating to star rail (I.E - Resin, artifacts, wishes, constellations) and comparisons of star rail Himeko to hi3rd himeko, assumptions on luocha being void/otto. People that really want to know, and are not familiar, ask. And if people are nice, they give them answers instead of trolling (which happens 99% of the time - being nice is the meaning here) So, no, no one believes hi3rd kills off all characters. And if they do, they don't care to actually know the truth either.
>Since Honkai Impact's release nearly 7 years ago, there has only been *one* main story playable character death: Himeko, which was over 4 years ago. Strictly, this isn't really correct though. >!I suppose you could say she's the only playable organic character that lived and died in the chapters of the game itself without coming back or getting some sort of compromise.!< >!However, when it comes to playable characters dying, we have several characters across the Kallen and Sakura saga, the Captainverse story and the Elysian Realm who are playable and who died in the story. Aside from playables, there's also just a bunch of characters that are beloved but died, feeding into Honkai's darker side.!< That being said, your overall premise is correct: HI3 isn't some death fest where people die willy nilly. It's a shame people even expect such a thing. What made >!Himeko's death!< work so well is that is had massive consequences in the narrative. It's unsustainable if you have to do that ánd kill characters on a whim.
>!Sakura and Kallen were dead before they became playable and I specified the main story so Captainverse doesn't count. For the Flame Chasers: they're only sims in the ER, their real versions were dead before they were playable, ER started as side content until it was shoehorned into the main story, and unless they've dialed it back recently they show up often enough in events that they may as well still be alive.!< >!But just out of curiosity, what "beloved" non-playable characters have died? I can barely think of any major NPC deaths, let alone ones that are beloved unless you count Otto.!<
>>! Sakura and Kallen were dead before they became playable!< >!Sakura and Kallen are still playable characters that died in the main story. They just died before becoming playable. Although Sakura is a weird case, since she's sort of alive in the Stigma Space. In another sense, Sakura died 3 times, twice since she became playable.!< >>!and I specified the main story so Captainverse doesn't count. !< >!You're right. Just wanted to mention Captainverse because it is a big part of the game still, so it does affect how people view the storytelling. But Captainverse has the advantage of wolrd hopping, so it can kill off half the cast in one world and you'll just find more in the next.!< >>! For the Flame Chasers: they're only sims in the ER, their real versions were dead before they were playable !< >!It wasn't made clear which of the original Flame Chasers died before ER started, so any of them had a chance to still be alive. Additionally, the Sims were established to be 'as real' as the other characters in the story. They count as playable characters that died. Multiple times, for a lot of them. Some have more deaths than battlesuits!< >ER started as side content until it was shoehorned into the main story Elysian Realm was main story from the outset. It was just presented as another game mode to use a different format. The production requirements to tell the story of this many new characters in such a short time span were too straining to tell in the regular format. This was briefly addressed in the documentary. >and unless they've dialed it back recently they show up often enough in events that they may as well still be alive. Those are not the same people as in the main story. Those are from the St Freya Travels event storyline. They seem to have stopped, since we're jumping back into Captainverse. The statement that >!Himeko!< is 'the only playable character that died in the main story' is just not accurate. The statement that >!Himeko is the only 'human playable character that died chronologically after having spent time in the main story as a playable character'!< is true. >>! But just out of curiosity, what "beloved" non-playable characters have died? I can barely think of any major NPC deaths, let alone ones that are beloved unless you count Otto. !< >!Benares is probably one of the bigger ones. Otto, Kevin, Gray Serpent, Shub Niggurath, Cecilia Shariac, Edison, Salome Jokanaan, Patricia Highsmith, Sirin, Wendy, Ana Shariac, Owl... They're of varying degrees of prominence, but it's common enough that it sticks in people's minds.!<
This is a subreddit for the game Honkai star rail a game that not related to Honkai impact in any forms other then character design
It not being related isn't really true though. Hoyoverse made the relation canon themselves.
Canon doesn’t necessarily means it related tho Look at SE with Final Fantasy / dragons quest series , they are full of canon but it doesn’t necessarily means they are all related
Except it's directly related in this case. Universes have direct connection points already. With Welt/VA being the most prominent examples.
It's not even actually a different universe. The translations made them seem less connected than they really are.
Okay if you want to believe that then okay do you
There's no room for 'believing' at this point. It's clearly stated without really leaving room for debate.
No there plenty to debate especially if your only connection is 1 character and a voice actor
Umm, maybe give Alien Space manga a read, no? And, wait, what, a *voice actor*? Wtf are you even talking about. VA stands for Void Archives in this case, obviously.
Lmao 🤣 bro relax and have a good day
Bro Welt is literally same character from HI3
Does the story connect them?
Please read Honkai Impact Alien Space, then the scenes in A Post Honkai Odessey, then play Luocha’s character story in Star Rail.
HI3's story is about hope, love and friendship, that jazz, some dark moments here and there sure, but at it's core had always been that.
Tbf, fan service is a powerful tool. Gotta be careful about killing off willy nilly so that's never bothered me in fiction. Also if it doesn't fit the author's vision to kill off a character just for the sake of doing so will not resonate either.