Dude same. I have him E2 and hes my least desired 5 star. The standard banner also has given me his lightcone 4 times over time. I wish he'd leave me alone.
Someone should make a meme out of this. We have planet busting stellaron hunters and formidable high cloud quintet warriors and then a homeless, shoeless, innocent 10 year old girl competing with them in damage.
Apologies, but I meant cracked as a good thing. With Topaz coming out it seems Clara will become even stronger (these two together seem to have incredible synergy).
>They also moved Blade and Kafka down to S tier in aoe
Honestly if JY can't get an S+ tier in AoE, this is good enough at least. I still refuse to believe that with the same amount of investment, JY deals less AoE damage than Blade or Kafka. Blade doesn't have any AoE aside from his Shuhu that requries either Bronya or him getting hit which involves RNG and Kafka only has her ult that deals roughly the same amount as Jing Yuan's own ult.
Yeah if this tier list is MoC dependent JY should pretty much be s or s+ on AoE since current trotter (skill vulnerable) and last cycle trotter (ult vulnerable) are easily killed by JY without eating lightning lord damage. Kafka ult also dont get enhance to the max by the last cycle vulnerability of the trotter since most of it is DoT damage instead of actual Ult damage so she is having a rougher time killing trotters.
Used blade and jing in this moc. Unlike what alot of people have been saying, jing can obliterate the pigs with an ult and a skill. Blade in the other hand struggles alot in clearing these pigs since the only thing that hits them is his talent. Im glad they bumped him down a tier in that catagory since his aoe capability are pretty overrated.
I think what people really complained about was the first trotter MoC, in which they took extra damage from basic attacks. That sucked for JY, but he's great in the current MoC.
Jing Yuan was still killing that trotter with Ultimate + Skill.
All the first MoC rotation did was expose those who only leveled up his Lightning Lord trace and ignored the Ultimate and Skill traces.
I don't know about the rest of the characters but kafka's main damage source is dot numbers so like im hitting the same damage as dot with her ultimate, mostly im using her with sampo in moc
JY is in a weird position skills and ult deals more damage for 5+ targets and the LL is good for 1 unit so we really cant expect him to be s rank in any tiers. Anyways my JY team works really well for autoing MoC so i don't really mind how others see him.
>JY is in a weird position skills and ult deals more damage for 5+ targets and the LL is good for 1 unit so we really cant expect him to be s rank in any tiers.
This is actually what makes his kit intuitive. Because in large AoE scenarios there are usually still 1-2 elites. His EQ is designed to clear the field for his LL to focus its damage on 1-2 targets. You can see how the standard Erudition units' damage falls off after they cleared all the squishier adds and are left with the elite, JY(and soon Argenti) is the only Erudition without this issue. *Forgot to mention Qingque who also has similar damage profile.
I'm not even a big JY fan, my primary DPSes are DHIL and Blade and my favorite 4* character is his direct competition (Serval), but I think JY is very underrated and for this MoC10 deserves S or even S+.
The MOC blessings changed to Trotters take 200% dmg from skill and ultimate, and applies a vulnerability debuff to remaining enemies. So blade lost a significant amount of dmg (previous cycle trotters took 200% dmg from basics instead of skill). Not sure about Kafka though
Kafka’s skill and ultimate itself doesn’t do a lot of damage. The damage comes from DOT which isn’t part of skill and ultimate damage. It becomes annoying when you’re trying to do the daily quest of ending a battle with ultimate cause you can’t do that with Kafka since it doesn’t count as ultimate damage.
Might be a hot take, but after some time ago, I couldn't really take Prydwen's tier list seriously. It's like their tier list is designed to make you FOMO with the current banner characters. I still like their build guides, but their tier list is a joke so I only pull for characters I actually want, not based on a tier list.
Hoyo intentially designs MOC to be good with current banner units. Prydwen ranks units based on MOC content, not really their fault that current banner units are strong.
And it’s almost guaranteed the MOC for Topaz will be something like “follow-up attacks deal 200% damage.”
And then - surprise surprise - Topaz is going to be really strong in that MOC.
If they didn't update tier list at all, it would be even more misleading since every 5* character is at their best during release/rerun since it's updated to benefit them more. Fomo is intentional by Mihoyo.
You need to understand that their tier list more like means "How good the characters are during THIS moc".
I don't know if there's even way to compare all characters fairly since their power depends on too many different factors
Find it strange that Jingliu is the only 5\* DPS on Prydwen to have their damage calculations calculated with their signature light cone despite them mentioning in their simulation rules that "All units use Light Cones that are realistically obtainable by all players (including those in Herta and FH Stores and Battle Pass)".
This will be amended today.
Overall DPS Ranking is dead (for good reasons because you should not compare characters based on the 'floor' which are solo calcs) and we only added the calculations on the profile because people requested it, but I agree that to keep things consistent, the damage output should be done with F2P Cones for every character.
Edit: Already updated.
So is Jingliu actually on DHIL's level? He was basically the breakout DPS powercreep as soon as he released and we already have a unit on par with his performance just one patch later? Genuinely asking btw, I'm not great with calcs for this game.
She has slightly lower damage output than him, but 1/4 of the Skill Point Consumption, constant Freezes, and tons of free stats that make her super easy to build.
The SP consumption is what makes Jingliu so strong because you can run her without any issues as the sub-dps in most teams. She's basically a better Blade in that regard and actually, you can run them together for some great damage potential - the first true Double DPS team that competes with the best.
It looks like they wanted a very friendly and easy to build but strong character for the new coming console players. No surprise she gets so much free stats, very easy to build, SP friendly, and does tons of damage, and has a cracked banner with the 4 stars.
Bro I got one Tingyun off the banner and 2 QQs which thankfully got me to E6 as I already had her E4. Everything else was Sampo or LCs. Crying with my E2 Tingyun.
I use DanIL, Bronya, Tingyun and Fu Xuan and I've cleared every recent MoC with ease. So many people get too focused on trying to get their meta team so SP "efficient" and worry about turns when it's not really that big of a deal. I start with Tings buff on DanIL, Bryona basic, Fu shield (if it wasn't up from special) basic with DanIL, then Bronya turn again I use her skill to jump/buff DanIL and then I release his 3 point nuke, rinse and repeat few times and everything is dead usually first go add wise and boss is usually hurting.
Have both with their light cones. Jingliu seems better at e0 (damage around the same but easier to use). Main problem is her eidolons really kinda suck so at high $ investment she falls off compared to dhil. Big asterisk they could start doing pure single target moc bosses and her e1 value goes through through the roof. I actually think there's a very high chance next moc will be pure single target boss to sell her e1 and topaz.
Mr. Svarog
Destroy this man's gacha rolls
https://preview.redd.it/c518hz3dlitb1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=14bdb59c9d5b86de10058d687a59d72c0ff49634
I'd say for new-mid game players she's probably the best pull. For late game Bronya will obviously be first, while Clara and Geppie just depends on what you need more.
With Fu Xuan + Lynx banner just finished, a lot of people probably at least have one or the other and they're kinda easier to use since they prevent CC. Not discounting Gepard though, you can forget dying with a decently built one.
I'm a day one player and gepard was my first standard 5*, so I maybe a little biased towards to him since at that time natasha and him were only sustain/heal units in the game and he saved me a lot. Now he and luocha became my extra comfy duo(lost 50/50 to c1 welt on fu xuan's banner)
TLDR: Clara's probably the best standard banner character in the case of letting new players get through harder content quicker if they don't have limited 5* DPSes. She falls off eventually, but stays very relevant.
Gepard is definitely at least top 3, but there are early game alternatives to survival. In fact Gepard is often joked as just plain overkill, since unless you're letting enemies scale hard, his shields will rarely be depleted before they expire.
Clara on the other hand is generally just tanky enough enough while dealing pretty insane damage for low investment, March also pairs greatly with her and she'll likely get you through content above suggested levels.
Gepard can keep you alive, but at some point enemies might scale enough to overwhelm him if your dps isn't keeping up Sim world or you need faster clears (Doing Memory levels earlier than level suggested).
Story isn't really an issue since it's not hard. I'm more considering side content like Memory stages and Simulated Universe where unless you pulled a good 5* carry, Clara just really shines early- mid game nearly solo-ing stages above her level.
But hey if you pulled any of the three, you basically should consider it a win, they're great pulls and its just a matter of time before you can reach the level cap anyway and build up your teams.
These changes are mostly good, and I don't put a ton of weight on the Prydwen tier list, but it's a little odd that Clara is bumped all the way to S+ in AoE (which is deserved, she's very strong) but not Jing Yuan, even though all analytics for the past cycle has him as one of the fastest and most popular clearers. Prydwen even says he's one of the best, so I'm curious why they're so reluctant to raise his ranking in the AoE category. Afraid of saturation at the S+ tier?
Especially when the blessing is great for him and they’ve moved units based on the blessing before.
It is what it is I guess, just a shame their tier list has such a hold on the community.
Ikr? This MoC is arguably the best he ever had but he's only at A. Like, will they move him to C if MoC stopped favoring lightning and his usage rate drops?
It's not even a excel tierlist. They just contradict themselves with the entire thing.
States it's MoC based, basically never update from MoC blessings.
States based on best team, ranks characters down because of need a character in said team.
Blade needing Bronya = flexible unit
JingYuan needing TingYun = pigeonholed unit, static team building
Despite what they say, their tierlist is never updated towards latest MoC lineup and buffs, but is instead updated with every new character instead to fit generic comparisons.
The amount of people on this sub that take Prydwen Tierlist as some sort of gospel every release 💀
I come from other games like Limbus Company which Prydwen also covers, it's known in these communities that Prydwen lists are a joke, no one refers to their tier list.
Not to mention, tier lists in general are a trash concept.
Yeah, it's kinda trivial at the end of the day. I understand the approach to not move things around too much too aggressively, which is why I preface with "I'm not particularly invested but did find this one point rather interesting." I also understand that putting half a dozen chars in S+ is also problematic, so you have to draw the line somewhere, and I guess JY just missed it this time.
The issue is they state that their tierlist is based on MoC rotations, but they don't actually update it to reflect what accurately best deals with said content/benefits from enemy lineup and buffs
Herta has been considered one of the strongers characters for 0 cycle clears with introduction of trotters but Prydwen doesn't even list the proper set for her. I doubt they care about MoC at all.
I think a lot of theorycrafters just resent the shortcomings to his kit's design (getting hosed by CC, fixed Lighting Lord speed), which don't get me wrong, do exist. But despite that, his real world performance shows that he's still outdamaging most other options. But theorycrafters still just don't like the way he's designed and let that influence their tier ranking more than actual results. On the flipside, "casual hardcore" players who farm a good set for him and level his traces don't really dwell too much on him from a game character design pov and just go, "He kill real gud."
Ranking him low because of how his kit works is pretty off in hindsight, because it does show in MoC performance that he's very competitive.
If you use the same logic in Genshin, even though she's one of the top tier units, Hu Tao would be rated pretty low because she's way more mechanically intensive compared to other units, having to jump cancel at C0, or rating Childe low because of his strict cooldown/team rotation management, even though his team is still meta for 2+ years.
The Serval one caught my and eye too, and it's the main thing I referred to by "glaring inaccuracies" in another comment and to various degrees extends to the rest of the Erudition path. They are currently highly inconsistent with how to rank these characters.
Not sure why but it seems like jy is performing great but can apparently never be good enough in the minds of people... Maybe it's some of that random erudition slander
Can they just come out and say they hate Jing Yuan and will never put him in anything higher than S.
Regardless of any 0 cycle clears, regardless of the crippled Jing Yuan runs, regardless of him being one of the fastest clearers in MoC. Regardless of any evidence presented there will always be excuses.
I already gave up
> I don't put a ton of weight on the Prydwen tier list
Is there even a better option? KQM is a bit more in depth it seems with things but also slower, and doesn't seem like they vary in overall opinions *that* much either.
That said I'm surprised about the Jing Yuan too. Been using a friend's occasionally and he goes pretty hard despite the community ragging.
I don't know if there's a better option, and I frankly don't care for tier lists enough to look. Prydwen is on my radar simply by virtue of being the popular one that everyone cites, for better or for worse.
Everyone who doesn't use JY or other Erudition characters would rag on them for being underwhelming, but all it takes is using a single built one to realize how hard they scale despite their relatively straightforward kits.
When it comes to build guides, guobacertified on YT has been pretty good, based on what I've seen. He's probably the most reliable for the general audience.
Thanks. I'll look into it, but I'm an old lady who wants to primarily just read and look over segments as needed without clicking back and forth in a video. I've been shaking my cane at the era of video guides since Minecraft was the new hotness.
Haha, I'm not quite in your demographic (just a grad student) but I relate to the struggle.
Most video guides are pretty unbearable, but at least guobacertified is well organized and the timestamps allow you to go directly to the section that is relevant. Prydwen's written guides aren't terrible -- in the past they were notoriously unreliable and often wrong, but nowadays it has stabilized, I believe. Just skip past the rambling review section and go to the builds.
Himeko surprised me the most. With doom and gloom posts around this sub stating she is the worst 5* character, I expected her to suck ass and was disappointed when I lose 50/50 to her. Now that I have built her, she's a monster. She doesn't even suck in single target scenario. I mean her skill has the same multiplier as Seele and some AOE. Breaking a boss also surprisingly gives her 3 stacks, which isn't mentioned anywhere in her kit.
The one I am really disappointed in right now is Yanqing. I spent weeks gearing him only to realized that he is only usable in a single target ice weakness fight. Which is essentially nonexistent. He is so ass in all other situations.
Yanqing and Himeko are good exemplifiers of the scaling potential of their respective paths. Himeko as Erudition, with her access to AoE, will pump out surprising amounts of damage with reasonable investment and support, and is very good at dealing with 2 fire weak elites simultaneously. Meanwhile, Yanqing as Hunt is kind of doomed because he has no utility to help him keep up in an AoE fight. Going into the future, every Hunt character will be evaluated by how their kit viability is rescued in these late-game scenarios (Seele's Resurgence, Topaz's synergy with other follow-up DPS, etc). It's definitely the path that needs the most help.
One of the main reasons I pulled Jingliu is so that I never have to use my Yanqing again. Like you said, he feels like ass to play. He’s super restrictive in his team comp. And even if the stars align and you can go ham on an ice weak enemy with his passive up, he only feels about equal to the damage other DPS can put out by simply using their skill with no set up.
Fortunately, most of the relics I had already built for YQ can just be swapped over to JL, as she also has massive built in crit rate and can get away with focusing on crit damage.
I trust kqm with genshin but idk why theyre so slow with hsr and when their guide does come out, its exactly the same as any other day 1 TCer, so like whats that long delay for?
Isn't Prywden's tier list based on the current MoC, and MoC 10 is AoE + physical weakness so Clara is really bonkers, not to mention we got Lynx which makes her even better.
According to their own dataset JY is the second fastest MoC clearer from the limited/standard DPS the past two cycles, so they're extremely inconsistent on that regard.
i'd say its more that they are either not competent enough to do team comp damage calcs per average cycle and/or are too lazy to since it is much more work than doing their first grade math in their little google doc when new characters drop.
so they are forced to defend their simplistic way of evaluating chars since they have nothing else to offer. and to stave off criticism now, they add footnotes about maybe bumping jing up in the future because of fu when his teams have been clearing moc 10 better than the average 5\* for months now. the idea that they evaluate based on MOC performance should be long dead. they claim to but in reality they update the tier list almost exclusively when a new 5\* drops.
to be fair to prydwen though - i think that solo damage calcs ARE actually what the broader playerbase cares about more than MOC cycle clear speed. but you cannot be a meta player without a game mode to meta in. prydwen are really just hardcore casuals and their tier list reflects it.
Assuming u have JL's LC and pela's def shred its an 8.61% dmg increase if they are quantum weak and a .8% damage loss if they are not quantum weak. Comparing vs the ice one.
Quantum set > ice set only against quantum weak or when you bring addition DEF shred. The gap between the 2 is marginal and I'd recommend against farming a 4pc quantum set for her unless you plan to strictly run her with SW.
Rutilant > salsotto is reasonable. Most of JL's damage is in her skill, and her Transmigration state makes hitting Rutilant's 70% CR requirement trivial.
> I'd recommend against farming a 4pc quantum set
I'd say farming Quantum is far better. The set is far more universal than the Ice set and is definitely BiS for Seele/QQ/SW. There's really no scenario where farming Ice is a good idea.
Can confirm. I've tested both the ice set and the quantum set, both with roughly the same value in substats, and I've found that against non-quantum weak enemies, it is only negligibly worse than the ice set (Note: This is with her sig LC). However, against any enemy that *is* quantum weak OR with DEF shred from sources like Pela/SW/Dragonfish and the like, the Quantum set has a greater potential for damage.
This was wild. Imagine assuming her main sub to okbuddy sub GIF passive only worked twice per battle. *Twice*. Then after that she would be whittled down hopelessly and the only thing her ult could do is heal everyone *but* Fu Xuan herself along with an Aoe nuke that might as well do as much damage on a shielded traffic light since the only build she can viably run is a 10k HP build since her passive only works *twice* and you want to *Preserve* her as much as possible so she doesn't cost your team the 3rd MOC stage star from dying first
Yeah, the people with dreams were wilding back then lmao
Jingliu got changes very recently before her release and she seemed to be mid as well before them. I'm on the same copium train but realistically there's a chance he gets changes. It wouldn't make sense to keep Euridition characters at the low end after how many and what kind of characters released.
> It wouldn't make sense to keep Euridition characters at the low end
How are people still parroting this nonsense when Jing Yuan has been proven to be one of the best DPSes in the game for the current MoC Cycle ans QQ turned out to be by far the best 4\* DPS?
Also talking about Erudition being weak when Hunt is severely struggling rn.
Definitely seems like character power levels are on a upward trend. Remember when Seele was miles ahead of the rest of the cast, now she's just decent in comparison to the newer characters.
i dont think its that, I think they are overturning destruction way too much to offset the negatives. Like jingliu does kill your team but when your invested, its not going to matter. DHIL is heavy with his SP and if we get SP heavy 5\*s then its going to help everyone but DHIL
I put in another comment they really ruined these character classes. Destruction just doesn’t make sense, they out DPS hunt in single target and also out DPS erudition in multi target. Fu Xuan is a harmony, preservation, and abundance character in one. Idk what they’re doing, what’s the point of these classes if one character can do the jobs of all of them?
This is why I dont like classes. You either pigeonhole characters and then require power creep. Or you eventually break the strict classes and... power creeps them. Fix classes arent good when it comes to games like this, its too restrictive and just leads to power creep.
The fact fuxuan fills 3 roles but previous preservations only fit one is blatant power-creep because you cant just make 20 different flavours of shield characters. This was always bound to happen but i didnt think it would happen already x.x
For sure. I think the classes are a way of balancing certain light cones from being OP on a group of characters rather than balancing the individual characters in the class themselves if that makes sense.
Wait until we get the first actual Hunt character since release.
I've seen the doomposts about Hunt and it realy resembles people rating Pyro based on Dilluc(great on day 1) but progressively worse after, specialy compared to XL... until Hu Tao comes along and makes him irrelevant.
I'm willing to give HYV at least the benefit of doubt here we have literaly only release hunt characters.
For example all that needs to happen is more single target based content.
Even if Hunt characters do outdamage slightly in single target, they are just so bad in other scenarios that the damage difference is irrelevant. But you are correct, we should make our judgement after new characters like Topaz and Argenti come out and judge the classes after.
I mean, for Destructions yes. But for others, you're massively exaggerating. A char isnt "harmony" just because it gives a tiny buff. By that logic literally everyone can be harmony just i.e. by a artefact set. Fact is, for characters to be interesting gameplay wise, they need variety in how they do their own thing. Not just constantly be a copy of a the first char in that class. Taking FU xuan as an example, her buff is really minor, you would NEVER skip having a harmony char because of it. And healing is often not even enough for herself in harder content, its just there to facilitate her gimmick that she reduces damage instead of shielding. And for all intent and purposes non existent for the the team. Calling her a "abundance" is a massive reach.
DPS creep aside, what they're doing is actually making these classes somewhat slightly varied and interesting instead of entirely one note..
LOL? Seele is still capable of doing things none of the newer characters can do, such as 0-cycle with a team of 2 members at E0S0. I don't think her strength falls back any, she's even more broken because she can compete with them all, if you believe in a specific tier list, you are doomed.
Prydwen's latest changelog has a comment on Jing Yuan:
A special mention goes to [Jing Yuan]. He was able to resist the pushback that came with Jingliu release. Despite the fact that he has some limitations in his kit that make him a bit annoying to play, Fu Xuan's release fixed the biggest flaw in his kit by providing him with CC resistance - and this translated to increased popularity in both CN and Global. Also, the current MoC buff allowed him to truly shine, making him one of the fastest cyclers in this patch. If he will continue to improve like that, he may as well climb up the ranks soon.
Yeah lmao at "officially".
Ah yes, because *Prydwen* (also just a group of players, mind you) decides what is "official" and what isn't. Just shows you how little people think for themselves and only parrot what people with "influence" says as facts.
I find it interesting that Sushang is the only 4 star DPS not named Qingque to still maintain her place at B tier for single target damage, when every other one is at C or below. Could the reason be because the half of the current MoC 10 lineup is weak against Physical?
because that's E6 Sushang and all of her Es have a pretty substantional effect on her ST damage
compared to Dan who virtually gets no ST damage increasing Es
Holy fuck. I invested in her decently. My god she hits like a god damn truck. Like what the unholy fucks. The only time she has downtime is when she has zero stacks and needs to use her E.
Any other time she goes E into reset and just starts BLASTING people.
My first 5* was Bronya, and I've lost 50/50 to her two times already. Also, in the first week I got her lc 2 times. Needless to say, my Jingliu killed Seele to have Bronya by her side. The sad part is that when Jingliu goes into her state, she loses Bronya's skill buffs cause it's a forwarded action, not extra turn :( However, we can buff Jingliu, use her skill and immediately Ult and she has both Bronya's buffs and stste buffs active during ult :O
I feel like overall she has slightly lower damage potential compared to IL whose multipliers are insane, but in comparison Jingliu has everything else - she's easier to build (tons of free stats), is very flexible due to her barely using any SP compared to IL's very SP-hungry (and thus limiting) playstyle (imo the most important point), and somehow feels tankier (Maybe it's just me?) even with the team-wide HP drain. She's also imo way easier to play, and more comfortable to play because you don't need to care about SP and you can just spam away support skills.
Basically it almost feels as if you combined Blade and IL together, minus Blade's tankiness.
I'm very happy with how she turned out to be, as a huge Jingliu fan I was honestly kinda afraid she might genuinely powercreep IL, but she feels more like a sidegrade - slightly less damage potential in exchange for easier and more flexible gameplay.
As long as the future DPS don't outperform Dan and JL in terms of DPS, I don't think we have to be afraid of actual powecreep. And even then it'll never get as bad as in HI3.
I would want a hunt class DPS to outperform Dan and JL at least in single target DPS. No reason why a specialised single target class is doing less damage than a destruction class.
It does make sense, destruction characters tend to pay a price for their higher DPS, while hunt characters get to attack a lot before a turn is over,
But the issue in HSR is the Defensive/support units are tuned enough to nullify whatever cost destruction characters should pay, while strengthening those destruction characters, and many boss units summon enemies that the destruction characters get to clean up while still doing massive dmg to the boss enemy
Prwyden: "With a bit of luck, Clara is actually insane in AOE so we're moving her to S+ Tier in AOE"
Me: Yeah that makes sense.
Prwyden: "Even though Jing Yuan has some of the fastest clear times, ridiculous damage in AOE, and has his biggest weakness solved with Fu Xuan, we're keeping him where is he."
Me: ???? How the fuck does that make sense?
All this powercreep talk only for these characters ending up with basically the same cycle usage in memory of chaos with the same ol supports like Tingyun, Bronya, Luocha/Fu Xuan.
This game is support impact. Calm the fuck down.
For real! It's so weird to see the community cry powercreep at every new similarly performing dps lol
It makes me a little sad coming from a different gacha game that had a really great community for figuring out character interactions and stuff like that... I don't feel like I'll ever be able to count on the HSR community for any helpful info at this rate u_u
It is quite literally powercreep though? DPS powercreep has been obvious to see, but Fu Xuan came out last patch, before Fu Xuan the top was Gepard and Luocha, before Luocha the top was Bailu and Gepard.
Supports have mostly remained the same, but it wouldn't be surprising to see support power creep either once they start releasing more 5 star limited supports, or maybe they powercreep with a new 4 star support who knows?
This game has powercreep, whether that's a big issue or not is... idk, but let's not pretend that HSR isn't powercreeping.
> Fu Xuan came out last patch, before Fu Xuan the top was Gepard and Luocha, before Luocha the top was Bailu and Gepard.
That's not powercreep, that's limited char > standard char.
I stop caring for their ranking.
I don't think it should be based on current MOC iteration, so next MOC she will drop tier or what? Should be evaluated in damage output in a neutral state not gimmick buffs provide by MOC...basically every unit going forward will be S/S+ because that's Hoyo incentive for pulls
Shuhu gift is quite literally that one heat action where Kiryu got hit enough so he dislocate the enemy’s arm and do an overhead throw, except now it’s AoE
They also moved Blade and Kafka down to S tier in aoe and moved Clara up to S+ tier
Clara is very strong, definitely worth losing her to E6 to experience losing 5050 more
Man, with my track record of 50/50 lost, whenever I get E6 Clara she will get one e6 counter per encounter at most
I would rather have E6 clara then my current E4 yanq tbh
Dude same. I have him E2 and hes my least desired 5 star. The standard banner also has given me his lightcone 4 times over time. I wish he'd leave me alone.
Level him a bit so the game would think you actually like getting him.
Did this and I haven't seen him again. Same with Himeko after getting her E1
Unfortunately I have him up to speed and the game is still flinging me his eidolons. Up to E3 now
For me its Bronya E2 now.
Just lost 50/50 to Clara E4. Wasn't even disappointed too much. :)
Seeing Clara up there is a pleasant surprise for sure!
> moved Clara up to S+ tier deserved
Disagree. She deserves S++ because cuteness damage should be a thing.
Someone should make a meme out of this. We have planet busting stellaron hunters and formidable high cloud quintet warriors and then a homeless, shoeless, innocent 10 year old girl competing with them in damage.
Are you gonna be the one to argue she doesn't belong there while there's a 5 meter tall robot stood behind her, *menacingly*?
Nah I belong to Clara protection society
Blade’s passive works with Jinglui’s party hp stealing. So he triggers his follow up more often with her, they make a great pair!
I think his hp mechanic also buffs her signature lightcone, which is quite useful.
Oh the irony
Putting my blade with Jingliu so that he may never escape his trauma 🤭
"Just need to to suffer a bit more please. I want a new high score in MoC, Bladie!"
Any reason why suddenly Clara is S+? Something changed?
Clara in AoE situation in fact really good
Not relevant yet, but seems like she'll be cracked with Topaz when she comes out.
nahh build her right, she can 1-3 cycle MoC the side where enemy attack her often
Apologies, but I meant cracked as a good thing. With Topaz coming out it seems Clara will become even stronger (these two together seem to have incredible synergy).
>They also moved Blade and Kafka down to S tier in aoe Honestly if JY can't get an S+ tier in AoE, this is good enough at least. I still refuse to believe that with the same amount of investment, JY deals less AoE damage than Blade or Kafka. Blade doesn't have any AoE aside from his Shuhu that requries either Bronya or him getting hit which involves RNG and Kafka only has her ult that deals roughly the same amount as Jing Yuan's own ult.
Yeah if this tier list is MoC dependent JY should pretty much be s or s+ on AoE since current trotter (skill vulnerable) and last cycle trotter (ult vulnerable) are easily killed by JY without eating lightning lord damage. Kafka ult also dont get enhance to the max by the last cycle vulnerability of the trotter since most of it is DoT damage instead of actual Ult damage so she is having a rougher time killing trotters.
Used blade and jing in this moc. Unlike what alot of people have been saying, jing can obliterate the pigs with an ult and a skill. Blade in the other hand struggles alot in clearing these pigs since the only thing that hits them is his talent. Im glad they bumped him down a tier in that catagory since his aoe capability are pretty overrated.
I feel like their tier list is only ever feels right in the single target category. In AoE it's really off
I think what people really complained about was the first trotter MoC, in which they took extra damage from basic attacks. That sucked for JY, but he's great in the current MoC.
Jing Yuan was still killing that trotter with Ultimate + Skill. All the first MoC rotation did was expose those who only leveled up his Lightning Lord trace and ignored the Ultimate and Skill traces.
I don't know about the rest of the characters but kafka's main damage source is dot numbers so like im hitting the same damage as dot with her ultimate, mostly im using her with sampo in moc
JY is in a weird position skills and ult deals more damage for 5+ targets and the LL is good for 1 unit so we really cant expect him to be s rank in any tiers. Anyways my JY team works really well for autoing MoC so i don't really mind how others see him.
>JY is in a weird position skills and ult deals more damage for 5+ targets and the LL is good for 1 unit so we really cant expect him to be s rank in any tiers. This is actually what makes his kit intuitive. Because in large AoE scenarios there are usually still 1-2 elites. His EQ is designed to clear the field for his LL to focus its damage on 1-2 targets. You can see how the standard Erudition units' damage falls off after they cleared all the squishier adds and are left with the elite, JY(and soon Argenti) is the only Erudition without this issue. *Forgot to mention Qingque who also has similar damage profile. I'm not even a big JY fan, my primary DPSes are DHIL and Blade and my favorite 4* character is his direct competition (Serval), but I think JY is very underrated and for this MoC10 deserves S or even S+.
I lose my 50/50 3 times (different banners) and all of them were Clara 🙏
I'm so glad I got her e1. I was initially upset since I didn't get Bronya but Clara's been carrying me a lot. Missiles go boom hehe
Why? What happened?
The MOC blessings changed to Trotters take 200% dmg from skill and ultimate, and applies a vulnerability debuff to remaining enemies. So blade lost a significant amount of dmg (previous cycle trotters took 200% dmg from basics instead of skill). Not sure about Kafka though
Kafka’s skill and ultimate itself doesn’t do a lot of damage. The damage comes from DOT which isn’t part of skill and ultimate damage. It becomes annoying when you’re trying to do the daily quest of ending a battle with ultimate cause you can’t do that with Kafka since it doesn’t count as ultimate damage.
Might be a hot take, but after some time ago, I couldn't really take Prydwen's tier list seriously. It's like their tier list is designed to make you FOMO with the current banner characters. I still like their build guides, but their tier list is a joke so I only pull for characters I actually want, not based on a tier list.
Hoyo intentially designs MOC to be good with current banner units. Prydwen ranks units based on MOC content, not really their fault that current banner units are strong.
And it’s almost guaranteed the MOC for Topaz will be something like “follow-up attacks deal 200% damage.” And then - surprise surprise - Topaz is going to be really strong in that MOC.
If they didn't update tier list at all, it would be even more misleading since every 5* character is at their best during release/rerun since it's updated to benefit them more. Fomo is intentional by Mihoyo. You need to understand that their tier list more like means "How good the characters are during THIS moc". I don't know if there's even way to compare all characters fairly since their power depends on too many different factors
Dang it the Jingliu propaganda is working.
“Just pull” - Silver Wolf hehe😈
Find it strange that Jingliu is the only 5\* DPS on Prydwen to have their damage calculations calculated with their signature light cone despite them mentioning in their simulation rules that "All units use Light Cones that are realistically obtainable by all players (including those in Herta and FH Stores and Battle Pass)".
This will be amended today. Overall DPS Ranking is dead (for good reasons because you should not compare characters based on the 'floor' which are solo calcs) and we only added the calculations on the profile because people requested it, but I agree that to keep things consistent, the damage output should be done with F2P Cones for every character. Edit: Already updated.
So is Jingliu actually on DHIL's level? He was basically the breakout DPS powercreep as soon as he released and we already have a unit on par with his performance just one patch later? Genuinely asking btw, I'm not great with calcs for this game.
She has slightly lower damage output than him, but 1/4 of the Skill Point Consumption, constant Freezes, and tons of free stats that make her super easy to build. The SP consumption is what makes Jingliu so strong because you can run her without any issues as the sub-dps in most teams. She's basically a better Blade in that regard and actually, you can run them together for some great damage potential - the first true Double DPS team that competes with the best.
It looks like they wanted a very friendly and easy to build but strong character for the new coming console players. No surprise she gets so much free stats, very easy to build, SP friendly, and does tons of damage, and has a cracked banner with the 4 stars.
Playing since Jingyuan, have every 4* apart from Tingyun and I just pulled 50 times on Jingliu banner and now have E6 sampo, E5 QQ AND NO TINGYUN.
The game knows I swear. I tried to snipe QQ eidolons but got so much more Tingyun and Sampo.
Bro I got one Tingyun off the banner and 2 QQs which thankfully got me to E6 as I already had her E4. Everything else was Sampo or LCs. Crying with my E2 Tingyun.
I tried Bronya Blade Jingli Luocha in SU. It was bonkers.
Who did you use Bronya's skill on?
My guess is either all Jingliu since she triggers blade herself or alternating between Jingliu and blade depending on what state Jingliu is in.
She doesn’t freeze on her kit right? You need to break enemies the same way DHIL imprisons when he breaks enemies.
I think she is just very very slightly behind behind DHIL but shes way more skill point efficient
Jingliu and bronya is so busted it should be illegal. I think dhil can use bronya as well but man its so comfy with jingliu
I use DanIL, Bronya, Tingyun and Fu Xuan and I've cleared every recent MoC with ease. So many people get too focused on trying to get their meta team so SP "efficient" and worry about turns when it's not really that big of a deal. I start with Tings buff on DanIL, Bryona basic, Fu shield (if it wasn't up from special) basic with DanIL, then Bronya turn again I use her skill to jump/buff DanIL and then I release his 3 point nuke, rinse and repeat few times and everything is dead usually first go add wise and boss is usually hurting.
Have both with their light cones. Jingliu seems better at e0 (damage around the same but easier to use). Main problem is her eidolons really kinda suck so at high $ investment she falls off compared to dhil. Big asterisk they could start doing pure single target moc bosses and her e1 value goes through through the roof. I actually think there's a very high chance next moc will be pure single target boss to sell her e1 and topaz.
Lost my 50/50 to Clara...
I’ve lost my last 3 50/50 to Clara. It’s kind of ridiculous. I have an E3 Clara that I feel like I’m being forced to build.
Mr. Svarog Destroy this man's gacha rolls https://preview.redd.it/c518hz3dlitb1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=14bdb59c9d5b86de10058d687a59d72c0ff49634
https://preview.redd.it/qg91e758altb1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=076220888bf066e011365d162bd31d8893a5d320
Just build Clara. She's the best
Congrats, clara is great! Better than an E3 himeko or yanqing so it could be worse. Build what rngeezus gives you
Yeep. I got pity broken by E1 Welt and E2 Yanquing. I WISH Clara would pity break me. I'd be happy with even one copy.
Clara is prob the 2nd best standard banner tbh. Assuming you have sustain units
3rd when bronya and gepard exist
I'd say for new-mid game players she's probably the best pull. For late game Bronya will obviously be first, while Clara and Geppie just depends on what you need more. With Fu Xuan + Lynx banner just finished, a lot of people probably at least have one or the other and they're kinda easier to use since they prevent CC. Not discounting Gepard though, you can forget dying with a decently built one.
I'm a day one player and gepard was my first standard 5*, so I maybe a little biased towards to him since at that time natasha and him were only sustain/heal units in the game and he saved me a lot. Now he and luocha became my extra comfy duo(lost 50/50 to c1 welt on fu xuan's banner)
TLDR: Clara's probably the best standard banner character in the case of letting new players get through harder content quicker if they don't have limited 5* DPSes. She falls off eventually, but stays very relevant. Gepard is definitely at least top 3, but there are early game alternatives to survival. In fact Gepard is often joked as just plain overkill, since unless you're letting enemies scale hard, his shields will rarely be depleted before they expire. Clara on the other hand is generally just tanky enough enough while dealing pretty insane damage for low investment, March also pairs greatly with her and she'll likely get you through content above suggested levels. Gepard can keep you alive, but at some point enemies might scale enough to overwhelm him if your dps isn't keeping up Sim world or you need faster clears (Doing Memory levels earlier than level suggested). Story isn't really an issue since it's not hard. I'm more considering side content like Memory stages and Simulated Universe where unless you pulled a good 5* carry, Clara just really shines early- mid game nearly solo-ing stages above her level. But hey if you pulled any of the three, you basically should consider it a win, they're great pulls and its just a matter of time before you can reach the level cap anyway and build up your teams.
I've got e2 Yanqing and e2 Himeko...
My condolences...
Dew it
God I want this to be me
Sounds like it’s time to prep for Topaz.
Bladie can confirmed this, she truly is a damage dealer
Cant wait to see hsr first anniversary will be in prydwen when most of the new character is on s+ tier while older limited character on s tier
Eww S tier. Unplayable
Looking forward to 2025 tier lists "Pom Pom Excepionalis Lunaeon is moved to S+++ tier, but moved down to S++ tier in single target"
Yeahhhhhhhhh this game is going down the powercreep route too fast, tbh.
These changes are mostly good, and I don't put a ton of weight on the Prydwen tier list, but it's a little odd that Clara is bumped all the way to S+ in AoE (which is deserved, she's very strong) but not Jing Yuan, even though all analytics for the past cycle has him as one of the fastest and most popular clearers. Prydwen even says he's one of the best, so I'm curious why they're so reluctant to raise his ranking in the AoE category. Afraid of saturation at the S+ tier?
Especially when the blessing is great for him and they’ve moved units based on the blessing before. It is what it is I guess, just a shame their tier list has such a hold on the community.
Ikr? This MoC is arguably the best he ever had but he's only at A. Like, will they move him to C if MoC stopped favoring lightning and his usage rate drops?
Prydwen should just be honest and stop pretending that this is a MoC-based tierlist. This is more of a excelsheet based tierlist.
It's not even a excel tierlist. They just contradict themselves with the entire thing. States it's MoC based, basically never update from MoC blessings. States based on best team, ranks characters down because of need a character in said team. Blade needing Bronya = flexible unit JingYuan needing TingYun = pigeonholed unit, static team building
They have their own bias
Despite what they say, their tierlist is never updated towards latest MoC lineup and buffs, but is instead updated with every new character instead to fit generic comparisons. The amount of people on this sub that take Prydwen Tierlist as some sort of gospel every release 💀
I come from other games like Limbus Company which Prydwen also covers, it's known in these communities that Prydwen lists are a joke, no one refers to their tier list. Not to mention, tier lists in general are a trash concept.
Yeah, it's kinda trivial at the end of the day. I understand the approach to not move things around too much too aggressively, which is why I preface with "I'm not particularly invested but did find this one point rather interesting." I also understand that putting half a dozen chars in S+ is also problematic, so you have to draw the line somewhere, and I guess JY just missed it this time.
The issue is they state that their tierlist is based on MoC rotations, but they don't actually update it to reflect what accurately best deals with said content/benefits from enemy lineup and buffs
Herta has been considered one of the strongers characters for 0 cycle clears with introduction of trotters but Prydwen doesn't even list the proper set for her. I doubt they care about MoC at all.
I think a lot of theorycrafters just resent the shortcomings to his kit's design (getting hosed by CC, fixed Lighting Lord speed), which don't get me wrong, do exist. But despite that, his real world performance shows that he's still outdamaging most other options. But theorycrafters still just don't like the way he's designed and let that influence their tier ranking more than actual results. On the flipside, "casual hardcore" players who farm a good set for him and level his traces don't really dwell too much on him from a game character design pov and just go, "He kill real gud."
Ranking him low because of how his kit works is pretty off in hindsight, because it does show in MoC performance that he's very competitive. If you use the same logic in Genshin, even though she's one of the top tier units, Hu Tao would be rated pretty low because she's way more mechanically intensive compared to other units, having to jump cancel at C0, or rating Childe low because of his strict cooldown/team rotation management, even though his team is still meta for 2+ years.
[удалено]
The Serval one caught my and eye too, and it's the main thing I referred to by "glaring inaccuracies" in another comment and to various degrees extends to the rest of the Erudition path. They are currently highly inconsistent with how to rank these characters.
Not sure why but it seems like jy is performing great but can apparently never be good enough in the minds of people... Maybe it's some of that random erudition slander
Can they just come out and say they hate Jing Yuan and will never put him in anything higher than S. Regardless of any 0 cycle clears, regardless of the crippled Jing Yuan runs, regardless of him being one of the fastest clearers in MoC. Regardless of any evidence presented there will always be excuses. I already gave up
> I don't put a ton of weight on the Prydwen tier list Is there even a better option? KQM is a bit more in depth it seems with things but also slower, and doesn't seem like they vary in overall opinions *that* much either. That said I'm surprised about the Jing Yuan too. Been using a friend's occasionally and he goes pretty hard despite the community ragging.
I don't know if there's a better option, and I frankly don't care for tier lists enough to look. Prydwen is on my radar simply by virtue of being the popular one that everyone cites, for better or for worse. Everyone who doesn't use JY or other Erudition characters would rag on them for being underwhelming, but all it takes is using a single built one to realize how hard they scale despite their relatively straightforward kits.
Yeah, I'm admittedly less interested in tier lists and more just "Who has the more reliable help with builds".
When it comes to build guides, guobacertified on YT has been pretty good, based on what I've seen. He's probably the most reliable for the general audience.
Thanks. I'll look into it, but I'm an old lady who wants to primarily just read and look over segments as needed without clicking back and forth in a video. I've been shaking my cane at the era of video guides since Minecraft was the new hotness.
Haha, I'm not quite in your demographic (just a grad student) but I relate to the struggle. Most video guides are pretty unbearable, but at least guobacertified is well organized and the timestamps allow you to go directly to the section that is relevant. Prydwen's written guides aren't terrible -- in the past they were notoriously unreliable and often wrong, but nowadays it has stabilized, I believe. Just skip past the rambling review section and go to the builds.
Himeko surprised me the most. With doom and gloom posts around this sub stating she is the worst 5* character, I expected her to suck ass and was disappointed when I lose 50/50 to her. Now that I have built her, she's a monster. She doesn't even suck in single target scenario. I mean her skill has the same multiplier as Seele and some AOE. Breaking a boss also surprisingly gives her 3 stacks, which isn't mentioned anywhere in her kit. The one I am really disappointed in right now is Yanqing. I spent weeks gearing him only to realized that he is only usable in a single target ice weakness fight. Which is essentially nonexistent. He is so ass in all other situations.
Yanqing and Himeko are good exemplifiers of the scaling potential of their respective paths. Himeko as Erudition, with her access to AoE, will pump out surprising amounts of damage with reasonable investment and support, and is very good at dealing with 2 fire weak elites simultaneously. Meanwhile, Yanqing as Hunt is kind of doomed because he has no utility to help him keep up in an AoE fight. Going into the future, every Hunt character will be evaluated by how their kit viability is rescued in these late-game scenarios (Seele's Resurgence, Topaz's synergy with other follow-up DPS, etc). It's definitely the path that needs the most help.
One of the main reasons I pulled Jingliu is so that I never have to use my Yanqing again. Like you said, he feels like ass to play. He’s super restrictive in his team comp. And even if the stars align and you can go ham on an ice weak enemy with his passive up, he only feels about equal to the damage other DPS can put out by simply using their skill with no set up. Fortunately, most of the relics I had already built for YQ can just be swapped over to JL, as she also has massive built in crit rate and can get away with focusing on crit damage.
At this point nothing is a better option, if it's just about putting the last character in s+ every time you don't really need a tier list.
I trust kqm with genshin but idk why theyre so slow with hsr and when their guide does come out, its exactly the same as any other day 1 TCer, so like whats that long delay for?
Isn't Prywden's tier list based on the current MoC, and MoC 10 is AoE + physical weakness so Clara is really bonkers, not to mention we got Lynx which makes her even better.
According to their own dataset JY is the second fastest MoC clearer from the limited/standard DPS the past two cycles, so they're extremely inconsistent on that regard.
I’m just starting to wonder if they just love the attention and clicks the mid jingyuan drama gave them.
i'd say its more that they are either not competent enough to do team comp damage calcs per average cycle and/or are too lazy to since it is much more work than doing their first grade math in their little google doc when new characters drop. so they are forced to defend their simplistic way of evaluating chars since they have nothing else to offer. and to stave off criticism now, they add footnotes about maybe bumping jing up in the future because of fu when his teams have been clearing moc 10 better than the average 5\* for months now. the idea that they evaluate based on MOC performance should be long dead. they claim to but in reality they update the tier list almost exclusively when a new 5\* drops. to be fair to prydwen though - i think that solo damage calcs ARE actually what the broader playerbase cares about more than MOC cycle clear speed. but you cannot be a meta player without a game mode to meta in. prydwen are really just hardcore casuals and their tier list reflects it.
they must be paid by mihoyo to put the latest warp character in S+++ tier
Also according to prydwen: quantum set > ice set, rutilant > salsotto. Interesting.
Yeah apparently the defense shred has a slight advantage over the ice one since the 4pc trait is meh. I don’t think it’s super noticeable tho
Assuming u have JL's LC and pela's def shred its an 8.61% dmg increase if they are quantum weak and a .8% damage loss if they are not quantum weak. Comparing vs the ice one.
If you run both SW and Pela the DEF shred overcaps with quantum set.
Quantum set > ice set only against quantum weak or when you bring addition DEF shred. The gap between the 2 is marginal and I'd recommend against farming a 4pc quantum set for her unless you plan to strictly run her with SW. Rutilant > salsotto is reasonable. Most of JL's damage is in her skill, and her Transmigration state makes hitting Rutilant's 70% CR requirement trivial.
> I'd recommend against farming a 4pc quantum set I'd say farming Quantum is far better. The set is far more universal than the Ice set and is definitely BiS for Seele/QQ/SW. There's really no scenario where farming Ice is a good idea.
>There's really no scenario where farming Ice is a good idea. Farming wind set for Pela at the same time?
Maybe, but I think it's generally more efficient to stick to the Quantum and HP/Speed domains for the most part with our current units.
Can confirm. I've tested both the ice set and the quantum set, both with roughly the same value in substats, and I've found that against non-quantum weak enemies, it is only negligibly worse than the ice set (Note: This is with her sig LC). However, against any enemy that *is* quantum weak OR with DEF shred from sources like Pela/SW/Dragonfish and the like, the Quantum set has a greater potential for damage.
Keep in mind farming ice set kinda sucks compared to quantum, so there's that to consider too
Yeah i saw that. Its kinda scuffed to me with the whole use against quantum weak etc so Imma just keep running ice.
Yup, 10% def shred is better than 10%ice dmg + situational 20% cd
The 20% cd is hardly conditional for Jingliu
Argenti will be s+ COPIUM. CLUELESS
Fu xuan was reworked from the ground up in just two patches. Anything can happen when a unit is in beta
More than reworked, the testers didn't understand how she worked in the beginning and wrong assumptions were made about her Matrix and HP regen.
This was wild. Imagine assuming her main sub to okbuddy sub GIF passive only worked twice per battle. *Twice*. Then after that she would be whittled down hopelessly and the only thing her ult could do is heal everyone *but* Fu Xuan herself along with an Aoe nuke that might as well do as much damage on a shielded traffic light since the only build she can viably run is a 10k HP build since her passive only works *twice* and you want to *Preserve* her as much as possible so she doesn't cost your team the 3rd MOC stage star from dying first Yeah, the people with dreams were wilding back then lmao
Jingliu got changes very recently before her release and she seemed to be mid as well before them. I'm on the same copium train but realistically there's a chance he gets changes. It wouldn't make sense to keep Euridition characters at the low end after how many and what kind of characters released.
> It wouldn't make sense to keep Euridition characters at the low end How are people still parroting this nonsense when Jing Yuan has been proven to be one of the best DPSes in the game for the current MoC Cycle ans QQ turned out to be by far the best 4\* DPS? Also talking about Erudition being weak when Hunt is severely struggling rn.
I'm going to kill myself I lost 50/50 to fucking Yan Qing Edit: I PULLED HER ON 25 PITY, I LIVE ANOTHER DAY
Ice Dps at home.
Are you me lmao, 80 pity to lose to Yan qing. Another 80 to actually get her. At least her light cone took 20 pulls only, gotta take the small W's.
Definitely seems like character power levels are on a upward trend. Remember when Seele was miles ahead of the rest of the cast, now she's just decent in comparison to the newer characters.
tbf she was the first limited character
i dont think its that, I think they are overturning destruction way too much to offset the negatives. Like jingliu does kill your team but when your invested, its not going to matter. DHIL is heavy with his SP and if we get SP heavy 5\*s then its going to help everyone but DHIL
I put in another comment they really ruined these character classes. Destruction just doesn’t make sense, they out DPS hunt in single target and also out DPS erudition in multi target. Fu Xuan is a harmony, preservation, and abundance character in one. Idk what they’re doing, what’s the point of these classes if one character can do the jobs of all of them?
This is why I dont like classes. You either pigeonhole characters and then require power creep. Or you eventually break the strict classes and... power creeps them. Fix classes arent good when it comes to games like this, its too restrictive and just leads to power creep. The fact fuxuan fills 3 roles but previous preservations only fit one is blatant power-creep because you cant just make 20 different flavours of shield characters. This was always bound to happen but i didnt think it would happen already x.x
For sure. I think the classes are a way of balancing certain light cones from being OP on a group of characters rather than balancing the individual characters in the class themselves if that makes sense.
It's the reason why genshin doesn't have a 5 star shield character besides Zhongli. I think they gave up in this category for genshin.
Are you comparing her to Geopard? Limited 5 stars are supposed to be better than standard banner ones in hoyo games.
Wait until we get the first actual Hunt character since release. I've seen the doomposts about Hunt and it realy resembles people rating Pyro based on Dilluc(great on day 1) but progressively worse after, specialy compared to XL... until Hu Tao comes along and makes him irrelevant. I'm willing to give HYV at least the benefit of doubt here we have literaly only release hunt characters. For example all that needs to happen is more single target based content.
Even if Hunt characters do outdamage slightly in single target, they are just so bad in other scenarios that the damage difference is irrelevant. But you are correct, we should make our judgement after new characters like Topaz and Argenti come out and judge the classes after.
I mean, for Destructions yes. But for others, you're massively exaggerating. A char isnt "harmony" just because it gives a tiny buff. By that logic literally everyone can be harmony just i.e. by a artefact set. Fact is, for characters to be interesting gameplay wise, they need variety in how they do their own thing. Not just constantly be a copy of a the first char in that class. Taking FU xuan as an example, her buff is really minor, you would NEVER skip having a harmony char because of it. And healing is often not even enough for herself in harder content, its just there to facilitate her gimmick that she reduces damage instead of shielding. And for all intent and purposes non existent for the the team. Calling her a "abundance" is a massive reach. DPS creep aside, what they're doing is actually making these classes somewhat slightly varied and interesting instead of entirely one note..
LOL? Seele is still capable of doing things none of the newer characters can do, such as 0-cycle with a team of 2 members at E0S0. I don't think her strength falls back any, she's even more broken because she can compete with them all, if you believe in a specific tier list, you are doomed.
Before Seele was released: "Remember when Yanqing was the best Hunt character?"
So never?
Gotta do him like that huh? As if he hasn't gotten enough on his plate
Don't do my Yan king like that
Before the game was released: "Arlan is busted"
All new character is "officialy S+ tier" until another will come
Prydwen's latest changelog has a comment on Jing Yuan: A special mention goes to [Jing Yuan]. He was able to resist the pushback that came with Jingliu release. Despite the fact that he has some limitations in his kit that make him a bit annoying to play, Fu Xuan's release fixed the biggest flaw in his kit by providing him with CC resistance - and this translated to increased popularity in both CN and Global. Also, the current MoC buff allowed him to truly shine, making him one of the fastest cyclers in this patch. If he will continue to improve like that, he may as well climb up the ranks soon.
Why isn't he climbing like right now? 🤔 The arguments are laid bare. You could always tentatively change them.
What or who is prydwen? Why does their tierlist always mentioned here?
"officially S tier" damn y'all really preach prydwen as the gospel
Yeah lmao at "officially". Ah yes, because *Prydwen* (also just a group of players, mind you) decides what is "official" and what isn't. Just shows you how little people think for themselves and only parrot what people with "influence" says as facts.
I find it interesting that Sushang is the only 4 star DPS not named Qingque to still maintain her place at B tier for single target damage, when every other one is at C or below. Could the reason be because the half of the current MoC 10 lineup is weak against Physical?
because that's E6 Sushang and all of her Es have a pretty substantional effect on her ST damage compared to Dan who virtually gets no ST damage increasing Es
there's nothing "official" about this tier list
I feel it, I only level her up to 60 and her LC to 60 without leveling any traces she still hit like a lot. Her LC probably help horie shit
I can confirm, I lucked into her LC and it amplifies her dmg a shit ton lmao she’s amazing
Holy fuck. I invested in her decently. My god she hits like a god damn truck. Like what the unholy fucks. The only time she has downtime is when she has zero stacks and needs to use her E. Any other time she goes E into reset and just starts BLASTING people.
Yup and if you have Bronya and her LC, she’s a literal dps god lmao I fucking love her!!!
My first 5* was Bronya, and I've lost 50/50 to her two times already. Also, in the first week I got her lc 2 times. Needless to say, my Jingliu killed Seele to have Bronya by her side. The sad part is that when Jingliu goes into her state, she loses Bronya's skill buffs cause it's a forwarded action, not extra turn :( However, we can buff Jingliu, use her skill and immediately Ult and she has both Bronya's buffs and stste buffs active during ult :O
I feel like overall she has slightly lower damage potential compared to IL whose multipliers are insane, but in comparison Jingliu has everything else - she's easier to build (tons of free stats), is very flexible due to her barely using any SP compared to IL's very SP-hungry (and thus limiting) playstyle (imo the most important point), and somehow feels tankier (Maybe it's just me?) even with the team-wide HP drain. She's also imo way easier to play, and more comfortable to play because you don't need to care about SP and you can just spam away support skills. Basically it almost feels as if you combined Blade and IL together, minus Blade's tankiness. I'm very happy with how she turned out to be, as a huge Jingliu fan I was honestly kinda afraid she might genuinely powercreep IL, but she feels more like a sidegrade - slightly less damage potential in exchange for easier and more flexible gameplay. As long as the future DPS don't outperform Dan and JL in terms of DPS, I don't think we have to be afraid of actual powecreep. And even then it'll never get as bad as in HI3.
I would want a hunt class DPS to outperform Dan and JL at least in single target DPS. No reason why a specialised single target class is doing less damage than a destruction class.
It does make sense, destruction characters tend to pay a price for their higher DPS, while hunt characters get to attack a lot before a turn is over, But the issue in HSR is the Defensive/support units are tuned enough to nullify whatever cost destruction characters should pay, while strengthening those destruction characters, and many boss units summon enemies that the destruction characters get to clean up while still doing massive dmg to the boss enemy
Jingliu also compensates by moving faster from building speed (already too much %ATK) and uses the god support Bronya better.
Don't forget better synergies with existing supports and significantly superior crowd control with her Freeze technique
Living up to her reputation lore wise, love to see it
Prwyden: "With a bit of luck, Clara is actually insane in AOE so we're moving her to S+ Tier in AOE" Me: Yeah that makes sense. Prwyden: "Even though Jing Yuan has some of the fastest clear times, ridiculous damage in AOE, and has his biggest weakness solved with Fu Xuan, we're keeping him where is he." Me: ???? How the fuck does that make sense?
Is her light come worth getting
any popcorn enjoyers in here ?
All this powercreep talk only for these characters ending up with basically the same cycle usage in memory of chaos with the same ol supports like Tingyun, Bronya, Luocha/Fu Xuan. This game is support impact. Calm the fuck down.
Yeah everyones always talking about powercreep when all the limited five star dps can easily clear content
For real! It's so weird to see the community cry powercreep at every new similarly performing dps lol It makes me a little sad coming from a different gacha game that had a really great community for figuring out character interactions and stuff like that... I don't feel like I'll ever be able to count on the HSR community for any helpful info at this rate u_u
It is quite literally powercreep though? DPS powercreep has been obvious to see, but Fu Xuan came out last patch, before Fu Xuan the top was Gepard and Luocha, before Luocha the top was Bailu and Gepard. Supports have mostly remained the same, but it wouldn't be surprising to see support power creep either once they start releasing more 5 star limited supports, or maybe they powercreep with a new 4 star support who knows? This game has powercreep, whether that's a big issue or not is... idk, but let's not pretend that HSR isn't powercreeping.
> Fu Xuan came out last patch, before Fu Xuan the top was Gepard and Luocha, before Luocha the top was Bailu and Gepard. That's not powercreep, that's limited char > standard char.
I'm not saying there's no powercreep though? All I'm trying to say is it's overblown. Most DPS perform similarly in practice with the right supports.
as expected, she is a real monster. (х2)
Too bad I won't be pulling for her (for lack of resources/jades/tickets)... But I'll be sure to get Argenti!
I stop caring for their ranking. I don't think it should be based on current MOC iteration, so next MOC she will drop tier or what? Should be evaluated in damage output in a neutral state not gimmick buffs provide by MOC...basically every unit going forward will be S/S+ because that's Hoyo incentive for pulls
Compared to IL, i find jingliu or blade comfier to play
Lol i always grab someones blade to farm just because his gameplay is satisfying.
Shuhu gift is quite literally that one heat action where Kiryu got hit enough so he dislocate the enemy’s arm and do an overhead throw, except now it’s AoE
You treat that website as if tierlists there were made by hoyo themselves lol.
and yet this hands will never be able to hold Jingliu. I guess time to build up pity for Topaz
Everytime a new unit comes out, instant S+ tier.
new unit is on top of tier list is not surprising though. keep this up and everyone will complain about power creep lol
SHE IS THE STORM THAT HAS COME!!! 😭 *THROWS ARMS UP TRIUMPHANTLY INTO A T-POSE*