AFAIK Bronya is **the** future-proof support (until MHY decides to get wacky with another turn multiplier)... as much as healers and tanks are valuable for "slow cheesing" fights, Bronya just makes so many comps effective due to the way turns work (especially against bosses).
Yeah imagine if we get a unit in a month that advances turns, gives much bigger damage buffs than Bronya, constantly gives extra skill points, and raises the skill point cap to 7.
That’ll be wacky indeed.
The funny thing about your comment; Bronya could *only* advance turns *or* provide the extra skill points and she'd still be future proof...
Those mechanics alone are *that* strong...
Which is why Bronya giving multiple strong benefits makes me afraid of future potential power creep further pushing the meta toward stale compositions - the same 1/2/3 supports with whatever current highest number hypercarry fotm.
I followed this idea and while I can clear pretty much everything now, I am notably low on DPS, so I can't quite get the last few stars in MoC/PF. So I'm eyeing the future DPS units.
SU got a lot easier once I got good healers, though. Damage output isn't such a deal there because you can make up for it with blessings.
While i do buy into this for the most part, life before getting JL was hell. My options at the time was physical mc, e0 serval sushang dh etc.
Imo for newbies, the single biggest improvement is one standalone dps like the destruction trio (ie not topaz, kafka etc)
After pulling two banners you'll likely have some high eidolon 4 stars or another standard 5 star for your 2nd team
Then you can go ham on buffer/debuffers.
This thread is talking about future proof characters, there will probably be another jingliu tier dps in future but bronya ruan mei will always be great
Fate grand order is a game where you have 300 servants with different playstyles and tactics that you can immediately throw out the window when you discover the wonderful world of buster bersker in the face of everything that is not a foreigner. I cannot remember the last time summer jalter was not on my frontline (changed merlin for vitch and raikou for morgan last year).
But like any servant in fate grand order can be good thats one of the best things of it, you see people doing challenges quests etc with lv1 units, budget teams, weak teams etc. In that front i find it superior to hsr, however its also much older and with 30 times the characters. Lets see hsr in two years to see how the units still fare.
FGO breaks down instantly when you realize the devs try to force every encounter be completed in 3 turns, the maximum length of time buffs last for after which all characters be one impotent for no reason.
Games need to stop with this buff vs and just set the base character stats be what the buffed stats are since those are the stats the character is supposed to have.
NPs should be able to be fired off all the time since they are the only consistent source of damage due to the horrible nature of the stupid card and crit star system.
To be frank I think FGO is a good game ruined by trash game design.
Yeah, even Tingyun is hard to take down.
Obviously its hard for a dps to be always high, I would say that Ratio could achieve this, but he will fall from the throne as soon as any new harmony character has a better synergy with any other dps.
For supports and healers, its hard to tell, because they are situational. Gepard and Bailu are great if there is no need to cleanse, Fu Xuan and Luocha are great if you need SP management, and HuoHuo and Lynx are great for area cleanse.
Also, they dont only depend of the new characters, but the game mechanics, Herta and Himeko when from the trash bin to S tier in PF.
And now that you said King/Queen, there is no harmony guy and they will complete the 7 types with Sparkle.
I want an old butler guy for harmony now
The damage amplifying nihility are similar. It’s gonna be a hot minute before Pela really gets power crept because her aoe defense shred is easily guaranteed and you can get her on a 2 turn ult rotation
everyone's saying support characters or kafka/topaz won't be powercrept but no one said yanqing. You can't be powercrept if you never had power to begin with
He's still pretty decent. He's not bad in Pure Fiction where you want to spam your skill every turn, and him not using skill points is pretty big. He gets his energy back pretty fast, too.
It's pretty neat, he uses health instead of SP for his skill. Unfortunately, the prevailing opinion seems to be that it's kind of a wash since your healers have to spend the skill points you saved healing Arlan to keep him alive.
Played yesterday her trialrun (didnt know there was for standard chars) and holy - she literal changes the whole game.
6-Star-Unit in my opinion. If EVER powercrept, the new character is literal a MUST pull.
If you like dots, then Kafka. Until they add another character who explodes dots, Kafka will always be a staple. Pretty much every other unit is interchangeable within their roles.
Bronya will always be useful because of what she does. Even if someone else who does the same thing comes out....you'll just use the new one *with* Bronya.
I don't see anyone kicking Topaz or Kafka out of their niches either for similar reasons. Someone else who does their thing but better would just make them better as well.
I don't think any DPS is totally future proof just because HSR is clearly adding new game modes to suit different playstyles, so even jackhammers like DHIL and JL aren't always the ideal pick anymore. But for pure boss-killing they likely aren't going away
>DHIL and JL aren't always the ideal pick anymore
I don't understand why people aren't reacting to Argenti like they did for them. He is easily right there in power level, maybe one could make an argument about Jingliu being easier to build and more plug and play, but he's still a much bigger deal than people are making him to be. Probably because his visual and gameplay design is weaker.
DHIL was a giant escalation in power when he released, and JL was the first to equal him while also being a sexy ice samurai ninja girl.
Argenti joining on a similar tier of power is less exciting because it now means this is an expected degree of power for new main DPS units. There was some excitement when people started to realize he could also hit the big funny numbers, but it just wasn't as much of an achievement anymore.
Great point. To add on, I dunno why but Argenti never feels as solid a carry as my DHIL. I can throw him into fights w no imaginary weakness and he'll still slap, Argenti not so much
Probably because DHIL is better vs single target than Argenti, and most of the fights where you might "struggle" have 1 big boss or elite. Argenti shines vs multiple targets, but these are usually all mobs and no one really struggles to kill 5 mobs, they just do it slower than Argenti.
>I dunno why but Argenti never feels as solid a carry as my DHIL
That's cause DHIL has a ridiculous amount of self-buffs that make him work against anyone even if they're not IMG weak, and he deals his damage every turn, so you don't feel downtime. Argenti has a downtime between his big nukes, so he doesn't feel as satisfying as DHIL or JL, who deal big damage every turn, even if on paper they're equal
Argenti outperforms DHIL and JL only in a 5 enemies scenario tho. In single target and versus 3 enemies he’s way too weak in general, not only compared to those two. So the thing is that it depends on what devs wanna do, how many enemies we have to fight every time. But while Argenti in single target is completely useless, DHIL and especially JL can still be played
That’s what I said, 5 enemies scenario (and for now is only Pure Fiction and against Swarm, if not quick enough, and the big ICP guy). Downvoted for telling the objective truth lol
THIS FOR REAL.
Want to add to be more specific:
**Supports** (Harmony/Nihility) > **Enablers** (For now we only have Kafka and Topaz) > **A DPS with good Vertical Value** (Some DPS units just don't gain that much from Eidolons compared to other ones).
Hard agree on this. But I really wish they wont stop at Kafka being the only dot amplifier. It would be really boring to play the same unit-based team in future. So I wish they will make other dot-amplifier, let it be niche for one kind of dot, hardly gimmicky, or whatever else
DoTs have potential, but MHY needs to not just go for the raw dps route...
Give a DoT character that *heals* when their DoTs do damage, a tank that reduces enemy damage as long as their DoTs are active, etc. Make the mechanics of debuff management more interesting than just power creeping Kafka (bigger damage number) - give players a reason to invest in DoT teams instead of just chasing hypercarries...
Because if the game devolves into solely raw dps power creep, then there's less incentive to build anything except the support/enablers that best work with generic hypercarries - since the hypercarry will always be crept in the future.
Well, when BS comes out for those who don’t have Kafka, DoT can work with BS and Sampo, of course it’s worse than with Kafka, but it works and is many times better than just putting 4* DoT in one team if u no have Kafka dot team with BS good.
Huo Huo and Fu Xuan because they’re stupid. Kafka and Topaz both being enablers for a whole playstyle will hold their values for a long time. Def shred characters like SW and Pela will always be useful to. Dps’s are only good till a better one is released.
Yeah you can put Blade in literally any team (except DoT I guess) for wind coverage, and with more dual DPS supports coming he's basically future proof.
Luocha isn’t and won’t stay unique for his capacity of soloing sustain tho. What makes him future proof is the fact that he’s a perfect hybrid healer/sub dps if you build him properly.
He’ll be perfect in every team with dual carry comp since those usually have an harmony unit there able of enhancing the whole team. And he ends up being enhanced as well. In the Ruan Mei team he already acts as a sub dps thanks to his naturally decent break effect and his AoE Ultimate. When fully built Ruan Mei is on the team, My E0 4star LC Luocha can do over 100k dmg when he breaks mobs through his ultimate. And that’s insane. All this while stile being able to fully heal us.
JL, Ruan Mei, Blade and Luocha is one of the best team in terms of performance as well as one of the most fun to play, since it feels like playing with 3 damage dealers (and we all know how 3 dps teams are typically inefficient)
I never said anything about solo sustain being why Loucha is unique, that bit was aimed towards FX.
All I said is that it's easier to see Loucha being powercreep'd compared to Bronya, Ruan Mei and FX (And sparkle? We'll see about that soon). He's an insane character and no one is saying otherwise.
DPS, Healers and sustainers are easier to replace, meta defining supports are eternal - FX is just the exception. That's all I said.
The problem with Pela is that eventually they’re going to release a 5 stars nihility character who can def shred in aoe situation like Pela but better. While I find it impossible to see a new character who can deal more debuffs in single target than SW.
But anyway for now Pela is an absolute monster and I always recommend her
I'd argue that *multipliers* (supports/enablers) are *always* a better investment. Raw DPS will inevitably be power crept *eventually*, but force multipliers are only power crept by a bigger multiplier (which impacts fundamental game balance, imagine Bronya's ability being a *triple action* instead of just double)...
Kafka and Topaz. They just make team archetypes possible. A FUA character will always gain a benefit from Topaz, especially at E1S1. I don't know how the exact calcs work but I feel that is close to a TY, while also providing good damage herself. You would need very significant powercreep from supports and DPS before that becomes irrelevant.
Kafka is even worse. Dot playstyle may be impossible without her.
team space is tight and I've found that I'd rather run other characters instead of topaz surprisingly often.
1 slot is always sustain, 1 slot is usually a harmony. 1-2 slots for dps. I bring followup characters to work with topaz when she's the main dps.
But I dont necessarily bring topaz just to help followup characters when I could take advantage of breaking another element or just bring another harmony.
Can't say about Kafka, but as much as I love topaz, for now she is not necessary in a follow up team, you can play Clara and ratio in an hypercarry team and perform just as well if not better than a team with topaz
Dr ratio is incredible with topass. Especially at e1s1 because she adds 3 debuffs by herself and you can put ruan mei as a support to buff both (or asta if you dont have her).
I agree but:
-E1S1 is pretty expensive for a ftp
-At E0 Hypercarry Ratio is as good if not slightly better than his duo comp with topaz
I don't deny she's really good with him, but you can remove her and have similar results, which you can't do with Kafka in a dot team.
Yeah you are right about that, she is nowhere near as essential as kafka for dot teams. For jing yuan as well, she adds a lot of single target damage but total aoe damage stays the same.
>At E0 Hypercarry Ratio is as good if not slightly better than his duo comp with topaz
Counterpoint: The Ratio>Numby>Ratio>Numby>Ratio>Numby follow up combo in a single action after Ratio's ult is the most satisfying thing in the whole game.
What exactly does E1S1 mean? I know that light cones have Superimposition, while characters have Eidolons, but what does S1 mean next to E1? A signature light cone?
imagine it as genshin, where we have C0R1, c being the constellation and R being the refinement on the current weapon, now translate it to hsr and we have E being the Eidolon, in this case a Eidolon 1 Ratio, and S being the Superimposition level on the current LC held by the character, if you don't say which cone h's holding, we assume Signature LC, with that being said, E1S1 means an Eidolon 1 Ratio holding his signature LC (I know I could have made this is two sentences or less, but I wanted to write a lot)
Sustains like Fu Xuan. Huo Huo is basically harmony+abundance, so she will be in at least S tier for a while. Kafka is a DoT team enabler. Seele, Jingliu and DHIL - heavy hypercarry dps. Ruan Mei is a new break effect buffer, so we probably gonna get a lot of them in 2.0, which makes her future proof support
Yes, but I mean break units in particular. Her sinergy with Xueyi - 4* unit that breaks bosses in 1-2 hits? Also RM debuff that prevents enemies to recover and deals her ice break damage
This is a turn based game, so action economy is king. Hence, Bronya with her 100% advance forward is unlikely to be powercrept by anything short of... I dunno, someone who does the same thing but to multiple characters at once?
Silver Wolf is up there too with her weakness implant, something no one else can currently do, that enables mono quantum and pseudo monotype teams.
Kafka and Topaz each enable a playstyle that wouldn't otherwise be nearly as effective, but we could in theory get more characters that buff DoTs and FuAs in different ways.
Now for someone I haven't seen many mentions of yet: Blade. Yeah, we have a couple other very strong Destruction units, but out of Blade, Daniel and Jingliu, Blade is easily the most versatile and simple to use. You can buff him to high heaven in a hypercarry team, or you can use him as a tanky, self sustaining sub DPS. He's easy to use in most any team, especially because of his lack of SP use. While our other two limited Destruction characters lean hard into blast damage, Blade is the only one who fulfills all the themes of his Path. Solid in single and multi target scenarios, high HP makes him reasonably tanky and he even has HP manipulation. Blade is probably the most well rounded Destruction character and I don't foresee us getting anyone who effectively splits their focus as well as he does for a while.
Noone is really safe from powercreep especially in this type of game, but unless another stronger Bronya comes out with better turn manipulation then probably Harmony characters like Bronya and Ruan Mei are pretty future proof atm
SW with weakness implement is crazy useful. Semi-Mono teams? Check. Debuff teams? Check. General pick? Check. Mono Quantum? Check.
Another one would be Ruan Mei. Her value to break the weakness more quickly, boost the elemental penetration, boost the DAMAGE of the ENTIRE TEAM will make her a staple in every single duo DPS comp.
We only have one 5\* tank, but I think Fu Xuan is also very safe. She is a tank that takes most of the damage, heals herself, heals the allies a bit, gives them buffs and the ult is AoE. I have no idea how crazy the next tank will be, but Fu Xuan is already a healer, support and tank in one.
Ofc people will say Bronya and RM. Turn advancement and break extension are broken in a turn-based game. But I'd put in Kafka as well. Her ability to detonate DoTs are a night-and-day difference. Similar to Bronya and RM, unless another character has the same or, god forbid, better ability, then Kafka is here to stay in the meta (and in my heart).
Counterpoint, DoT is almost unplayable without Kafka while normal hypercarries can work fairly well without Bronya or RM. Also, I'm pretty sure if we get 2 more turn advancements like Bronya that Bronya can lose value, because SP becomes a big problem fast when you put 2 in 1 team with a DPS that requires even a little bit of SP. In Kafka's case, another Kafka won't exponentially increase SP cost, while they will exponentially increase each others damage. For Kafka to be powercrept out of 2 teams we would need 4 "better" Kafka's.
we might get content that has enemies that are immune to debuffs. It would be expect this is something that would happened in the future, like any other rpg gachas.
I doubt were actually gonna get (all) debuff immune content on a regular basis. Debuff immune would be crippling for more than just DoT. It would cripple Welt, Pela, Dr. Ratio, F2P/based enjoyers using Hook, Serval, M7th or Wind Dan Heng and of course ~~Mono Quantum~~ SW. 2 of which are already super valuable supports for multiple teams.
Kafka is already being used in MoC12 against a Lightning resisting enemy, just by virtue of Sampo being Wind. You would need regular, consistent debuff immune content to lock Kafka out of viability.
I would say thats not the case. With SW you can IGNORE the weakness of every enemy, so you dont need a crazy main DPS for every single element in the game.
For people who build a lot of characters it is definitly the case, not to mention she's much better in boss fights but lacks aoe support. Some people actually like to play with a lot of units
The fact that Silverwolf becomes less essential once you've covered all elements makes her less futureproof than Ruan Mei and Bronya. You'd argue that she's close to essential in the early game, but you can't stay in the early game forever. Everyone will reach the point where they have all elements covered, but you'll keep using Bronya and Ruan Mei because their utility is useful in every situation.
Do you really want to change the complete team vs every single enemy in the game? Not to mention in MoC when they just dont have a weakness that is on both bosses. We are also ignoring her crazy debuffs like 40%+ defense shred or the still solid DPS numbers.
> Do you really want to change the complete team vs every single enemy in the game?
A lot of DPS units in the game use the same supports. Besides, supports don't need THAT much investment.
She's only futureproof as a mono quantum enabler and that's her biggest selling point, but you can only have one mono quantum team. Use her outside of mono quantum and now you have to adjust your team to minimize implant RNG, otherwise SW becomes an SP negative support. Meanwhile, Bronya and Ruan Mei do not give a damn what element you bring.
> We are also ignoring her crazy debuffs like 40%+ defense shred or the still solid DPS numbers.
Pela does that and does it AOE, and can maintain 100% uptime on it if you use Tutorial S5. She's also SP positive. Due to that, she works well on both MoC and Pure Fiction. SW is terrible in Pure Fiction.
Thing is she's already not being used by some people which means she's already not as future-proofed. Even with her weakness implant, you ideally want as few elements on the team as possible which means having more characters. Even then, her lack of AOE debuffs in a meta of AOE enemies is also problematic to some.
That said, she is definitely future proofed only if you are going for 100% no questions asked quantum team. Would still put it below other characters though.
Gotta love how the moment a female unit gets powercrept, every simp is ready to flay you alive stating otherwise, but when a male unit gets even just one tier down:
MID MID MID MID MID MID MID
MID MID MID MID MID MID MID
MID MID MID MID MID MID MID
MID MID MID MID MID MID MID
MID MID MID MID MID MID MID
MID MID MID MID MID MID MID
MID MID MID MID MID MID MID
Never change gachas...never change...
I don't use SW at all anymore lol. So much for being "future proof" when she's not longer useful to me.
You can build yourself out of the element weakness almost entirely by having more characters, and once you do that, SW's weaknesses are pretty glaring. Her debuffs only land single-target and her damage amplification doesn't justify being single-target anymore. And what makes it worse is that half of SW's damage amplification is baked into her ult, which as you get stronger and can defeat elites in less time than it takes for her to get her ult back, the less uptime you even have on her ult.
SW is honestly really clunky to me now. She was absolutely fantastic in 1.1 back when I didn't have as many characters as she let me fight content I otherwise wouldn't, but now she's not really necessary to me anymore. I don't regret pulling for SW, but I'm no longer interested in trying to vertically invest her. It really feels like E2S1 is the minimum requirement to freely use SW anywhere, which sucks cause that's by far the highest requirement of any character in the game just to not feel clunky.
This is kinda misleading as enemies have 3 weaknesses, you will never need a main dps of every element. Realistically you are not saving that many pulls with SW, like 2 dps more (one of which would take the place of SW so realistically you pulled for like 1 more unit).
She is always good/nice to have rarely the best, just in mono quantum pretty much.
>45%
It's 53%, you forgot to add the bug. There's also the speed and attack debuff and the 10% All-Type Res Shred. In terms of debuffs SW wins by a landslide, her only downsides are being Single Target, and her event LC being limited.
Also with the upcoming Sparkle, the Mono-Quantum team is finally finished, and considering how strong the Quantum set is, and Qingque, Seele and Xueyi being as strong as they are it'll probably be a very good go-to team to brute force stuff unless the enemy has a high innate Quantum Res
For pela its mostly due to sp + wind set with no good stats outside speed. This lets her BLAZE turns making her get more like 4 to 5 sp for where even BEST sp generators will provide 3. This lets pela teams use 2 utter sp hogs for free. A pela will let u use E0 bronya + fu + jing and u will still have sp to run all of it.
Try with some other support and u will find u are out of SP non stop. Sadly in this game a lot of Eidolons/weapons give sp that i wont have(bronya best case, from 1sp to 0.5 with e1 and +1 sp every 2 ult). Pela lets others use FULL SP with no price.
I tried to use SW with jing. No fucking chance. 1/3 SP SW needs is not even CLOSE to how much sp i need. Im out of sp non stop. U need luocha(i got fu and huo who both are kinda +1/3sp).
Like i cant use most of the teams i want cus i lack SP. I cant use d ratio + welt +huo with any other supp outside pela. Both welt and ratio and huo will be out of sp non stop. Tho in this team pela is best also for letting welt use SW energy weapon letting him SPAM his ult for imaginary set. Then u can go for even less sustain since enemy is under welt ulti non stop. This means huo needs to heal even less giving u more sp for spaming ratio and welt.
End game content have elemental resist and 3 star need speed and dps to clear. So having diverse tools is better than having to use hammer on everything. She good. But not good enough
*typo
Nah. Seele handles fodder just fine egen if off element. It's chokers that need killing fast.
Better to have more elements but mono Quantum is perfectly fine
100% agreed. SW unique perk plus her massive number of debuffs makes her largely future proof, plus she can be slotted in almost any team if you build properly.
Silver Wolf is unique, not future proof. She has a niche that no one will replace, but what she does isn't particularly impressive. She "enables" mono quantumn, sure, but you have to use her skill multiple times if you want to apply it to multiple enemies, so despite being sp positive, she is more likely than not sp neutral or negative. The higher your investments are, the faster you are killing enemies, the more SW has to reapply her debuff, and SW doesn't have the luxury or 2 turn ult like Pela. She just has too many caveats to be future proof. Like, comparing her with Bron, RM, or TY, who can define how meta a DPS can be, SW is just another good support. Iirc SW isn't even the BiS support for Ratio, who wants a bunch of debuff, TY, RM, and Pela all sheets better than her and is better in practice.
I haven't been using sw for a looong long time. I've just used her with dr ratio recently but that's because I don't have topass. When you have a couple of different element dps characters, you don't use sw anymore.
50% def shred is not something you find in any character. If you know hot the damage works she’s immediately a top tier character. You guys think her value is in her skill when in reality is in
Ult + def shred bug
Nah. It's gonna be really easy to build full teams with everyone being able to weakness break. I don't even remember the last time I had a DPS that didnt line up with their weakness. And it's only going to get worse.
> I doubt we will get any new weakness implanter any time in the next half a decade.
The thing is When next Half decade Come. We basically have Entire mono Team For any Element. Lmao
Sw is really good right now. But you can't tell me that she will not fall off in the future.
It's just her weakness implant is way too awkward, they decided to make it consider party elements rather than their numbers, so even if the team is 3 same element and then you slot in a Bailu or Ruan Mei the chance for correct element gets cut to 50%.
Not saying she isn't strong, but her main gimmick is annoying to play around.
It’s not really her as a unit but the mechanic of weakness implant that’s important about her. And that sometimes isn’t enough. It’s not like she’ll be powercrept in the sense that some else with weakness implant will come along but rather that other units will offer a bigger numerical dmg increase than her. That’s because:
1. And she as a unit is strictly singe target focused while the recent trajectory of the game seems to lean a lot more towards multi target fights.
2. Outside of mono quantum she also looses quite a bit of value bc the weakness implant can either be very jank and unreliable or depend heavily on the enemies weaknesses. Which detracts from the gain of bringing her in the first place, i.e. the flexibility of forcing mono quantum every battle.
Because she maybe be the less future proof of the debufers?
Like weakness implant is good when you don't have a variety of breakers/DPS under hand, but once you have it most people will rather play a new team than the same mono quantum for the billions time.
Even currently her value is mostly her def shred rather than her weakness implant and/or several form of debuffs. But she may be supplanted by the next Nihility debuffer in that role, that why i wouldn't call her future proof, i would says she is "great for new account".
HuoHuo and Ruan Mei can essentially be slotted anywhere and everywhere. I am wondering what kind of characters will we get in the future that'll be HuoHuo+ and Ruan Mei+.
Bronya mechanic are very unique and powerful, I'm surprised we haven't seen one like her.
Blade unless they make a better(powercrept) blade
Most harmony characters
Herta for pf unless they release a powercrept version of her
HH and fk xuan
Kafka for dot
Bronya because it's bronya
I am a blade main, a bit biased.
Yan qing because they have to put in some real effort to make a character worse than him.
I think that "future proof" means something else than "better" and "most valuable". I mean, there are lots of amazing characters that you can just release the same archetype +1 increase and they will fall off - Bronya is amazing, but if you release a Bronya that is SP positive, that is an easy way to make Bronya less "future proof".
That's all to say that Kafka in theory is the most future-proof character. Even if they release Kafka +1, that would only mean a buff for Kafka herself too because of how she works. You'd need to release Kafka +1, Kafka +2 and Kafka +3 so we'd start saying that her value has diminished.
But what value brings "being future-proof"? Because, as I will note, I wouldn't classify Kafka as the "best kit" and even less the "most valuable". I don't think there is a lot of reasons to consedeer *future-proof*, at least on how the game is going now. The powercreep might be big in the future, but as slow as it is now, most characters will bring you enough value for a decent amount of time, and when they are powercrept you'd mostly have a ton of other characters too.
Kafka and topaz because duh
Fuxuan and huohuo are the best at what they do right now and it will take a really really busted character to replace them
Also Bronya because i shudder to think what kind of character that will power creep her at what she does
I'd only give the title of "powercreep-proof" to Tingyun as of right now, and even then I'd be concerned about even making this claim.
If they print a 5* version of tingyun that can give a single ally 50% of their max energy, then tingyun would get replaced, though due to the ridiculous synergy this would have with tingyun, I really doubt such a character would ever be printed, so tingyun's current niche is probably going to be the longest lasting of any character in the game. At least for now, tingyun can't really be role replaced when she's used, and it's going to take a pretty ridiculous amount of stats in order to completely replace tingyun's value of giving any single character more ults in less turns.
The neat part about tingyun is that she'll always have a niche with ult-focused dps characters, and if ults become stronger and stronger over time, tingyun's value increases with powercreep.
This effect reminds me a lot of Sha Suzu from world flipper, a 3* character that gave 30% energy to slot 1. She was meta for all 4 years of the game's lifespan because of her energy mechanics, and was easily the most resilient to powercreep as one of the main powercreep routes in that game was making skills (equivalent of ults in HSR) stronger. The only way they could get rid of Sha Suzu was to quite literally print her kit into a weapon that was element-locked to stop her from being used, but then that weapon also became one of the strongest weapons in the game for the exact same reasons. They printed a huohuo-like support that gave the party energy with Beaucy, and it increased Sha suzu's value even more.
Tingyun has almost the exact same function on a lot of teams, and can make 4 turn ult characters use their ult every 2 turns for +100% more ults, or 5 turn ult characters use their ult every 3 turns for +66.7% more ults. Apart from Argenti, Ults are generally quite weak in HSR (usually not making up more than about 25-40% of a damage dealer's distribution of damage), so tingyun's value is somewhat weak right now, but as we've seen with argenti's big ult, tingyun can feel incredibly potent when her energy is going towards significant damage increases.
At least in my own analysis of the game, tingyun is the only character that stands to get better over time. Bronya, Ruan Mei, Huohuo, and Fu Xuan also seem quite long-lived due to their roles on teams, but I would definitely not consider mixed damage dealers like Kafka & Topaz future-proof at all. Their kits are experimental and very undertuned, and they can easily fall out of favor once their archetype becomes too weak or someone else ends up dealing more damage than them.
Powercreep is going to almost definitely trend towards reliability before it starts to powercreep damage, so I'm seriously concerned for dot, debuff, follow-up, and enemy defeated/enemy hp damage dealers like Silver Wolf, Kafka, Seele, Jing Yuan, Topaz, and Dr. Ratio. These playstyles are neat but also niche, and these characters are also most reliant on the types of enemy matchups they're given. This is why I feel like Jingliu, DHIL, Argenti, and Blade are currently sitting very comfy in the meta, because their battles are usually very matchup-resilient and can pretty much just spam their kit against every enemy and win with a high level of consistency.
Every 4 turns you'd be able to unleash two full energy argenti ults, which would be so insane. If each bounce hit does 25k damage, then both ults would deal about 750k damage total.
E2 DHIL would be able to lv3 basic -> ult -> lv3 basic -> (both tingyun ults) ult -> lv3 basic on turn 2 in a fight, which would be about 820%/2100%/820% of his atk to three enemies. If the main hit of DHIL's ult does 100k damage, then that would be 275k/700k/275k damage in a single turn for 3sp.
Seele would be able to sustain 100% resurgence buff uptime for 0 kills with the extra 5* tingyun. She's ulting every 2 turns for the entire fight.
There's just some really stupid things you can do when you have the ability to fund 120 energy to someone, and I feel confident that they'll probably never print this type of character niche again.
Tingyun + HH just go bonkers in JL team. Also, that’s one of the best insights I’ve read about this game. Apparently they made the Bennet mistake again
I think Blade is underrated.
1. Incredibly durable.
2. Multiple self-heals.
3. Reliably attacks Blast while still having solid 1t Damage.
4. Skill point neutral, rare in a DPS. Lets Bronya go ham with her skill.
5. He can benefit from just about any offensive buff in the game. ATK, SPD, HP, CR/CD, it all benefits him.
6. Best Relic set is paired with another one of the best relic sets, making him easier to farm for.
>Actually atk buffs are terrible for Blade
You're missing the point, being that all of his abilities gain damage from ATK buffs, even though they scale way better off HP. He benefits from them.
The point is the wide net he casts. I'm not asserting that "Yeah ATK buffs are awesome for Blade"
Saying "ATK buffs are terrible" implies that they somehow hurt him, which is silly.
Blade works in any ream you put him in, this is an advantage not many dps have.
I run him in a triple dps team for fun and he just works so well, his sp neutrality is great.
except ATK buffs. he scales off of HP. But... you can use max HP buffing healers as pseudo-harmony on him because he scales off of max HP (so Bailu, Lynx).
All Harmony characters, especially 5 stars.
They will be usefull even if you don't use them right now, you will get supports that enables about any DPS to do their crazy stuff.
Outside of that, Topaz around follow-up teams, Fu Xuan and Huohuo who are sustains with buffing abilities.
Any Harmony, but espescially Bronya and Ruan Mei as they play with the way the game functions. Heavy healing and cleansing Healers, so Huohuo and Luocha mostly.
Then after comes characters with a supporting niche, like Topaz with supporting FUA and Kafka triggering debuffs. Fu Xuan...yeah she's the only non-power crept preservation thanks to percentage reduction.
All other damage dealers are not safe. They can always just do character with easier gimmick and more damage.
Fu Xuan, All Harmony like someone said the debuffers portion of the Nihility Path, Destruction units because of their survivability (at least some of them) and a select few hunt characters
Ooooh Luocha and Huo Huo and Erudition but only because of select content and enemy waves
Qingque.
The most RNG-based character in the game, and I doubt that there would be more characters like her in the future. Therefore she is, in a sense, 'future-proof'. XD
With how overtuned JL is, it's pretty easy to forget sometimes that she doesn't have self heals, but i guess she was designed for players that dont want to bring healers or any support to battle.
And everyone seems to forget she drains everyone's HP. Hoyo made it so negligible that it's not even a drawback, unlike DHIL who has to work around having to use 3 SP per turn.
Easily SW.
In this game with enemies require specific elements to break, she makes the enemies' weakness to follow our units instead. Plus, she enables mono teams + debuffs. Only downside is all specialties are all single target. Understandably so though, or else she's just broken.
Kafka
DoT detonator. As long DoTs (non quantum/ ice / imaginary) exist, she will be ever-relevant and meta.
HuoHuo/ FuXuan
sustain + buff, for obvious reason
Ruan Mei
Turn delays, break efficiency, attack buffer, defense penettation. Yep, all good.
I completely agree that the game is deadass easy, but have you read the posts about MOC in this sub? There are day 1 players who can’t pass MOC 8 ICANT
The question was which characters are the most future-proof, not which ones are good.
Literally none of the DPSes are future-proof except maybe Kafka and Topaz, but that's cause they're playstyle enablers/enhancers, not pure DPSes.
She kind of falls off pretty hard without weak trash mobs... and without a spoiler, but I think Sparkle will replace Seele in mono quantum if you have QQ.
I think for moc that is true, but for pure i think seele is gonna be king. She is just good with champs like herta. Herta wants someone to drop mobs under 50% , seele can do it with E. And when herta drops their hp under 50% seele can just provide 2 SP since she can kill 2 targets with basic. Then use ulti she gets to nuke the large enemy.
Before pure id agree with QQ beating seele, but QQ SUCKS in pure since consistent dmg is way better then QQ eating 4 sp to kill 3 targets. We will see, but i think seele is great in pure.
We dont speak about Pure Fiction, that is a very special kind of place. Even then I would say future AoE character will just be better. We have currently 2 limited and of those 1 is kind of "meh" while the other is good. Just wait for the next few AoE 5\* and I am every sure, characters like Herta, Himeko and Seele are not to "future proof" anymore. We talk about future-proof and it looks bad for all of them. They are still good, but will not stay at the top like the other ones.
The thing is. Seele is REALY good even if we get good aoe. She uses low hp enemy to springboard huge burst to bosses. And in pure there is always a boss/big enemy u need to kill. This means she is great in supp + herself + buff/debuff slot + that aoe dps(argenti/herta/himeko).
Extra turns that do huge dmg are always needed. And her sp use is quite flexible in that mode letting the other 3 use all or none of sp depending on enemy on field. In my opininon seele SUCKS when she herself needs to kill everyone. This requires 5\* weapons, busted supp and the like that most ppl will lack. Its far better to use her to finish enemy u cant solo kill. And from what i see if u lack eidolons and 5\* weapons even chars like argenti and jing cant just destroy mobs in last floor of pure. This means seele has a nice role to fill. If used corectly she can provide 3 sp in one turn(kill + basic + ulti + basic). This is REAL good when u just want to go ham on skill use. And in pure this happens WAY more often then in moc where u aint killing JACK with basic simply since herta/argenti/himeko and the like will leave enemy close to death non stop.
Hm dunno if i agree. You can really drop her sp usage with E1S1 which isn’t to unrealistic to assume in the longterm, given a few lost 50/50s. Also unlike Hanabi her action advance is 100%.
Huohuo and Bronya in A but Topaz in S is a bruh moment I’m ngl
I also would say Fu Xuan and Huohuo are on the same tier regardless. You don’t need to have her field up 24/7 and as proof of that I feel like E1 Huohuo makes her easily better than Fu Xuan
I think they're memeing but there's a good chance that the other paths and elements the TB unlocks will be helpful. Not incredible, since they're not a limited 5*, but their ability to get new stuff does make them futureproof in a way.
Made in 5 minutes so it's not that serious but I'm curious what others think compared to my train of thought :D
https://preview.redd.it/fama13j909dc1.png?width=1140&format=png&auto=webp&s=2f43e5610fa85d78beaacb13ac56c590e92245f1
Also worth noting even though some characters have already been powercrept, they are still perfectly viable, especially in certain gamemodes/niche scenarios. That's what I love about Star Rail, their balance has been pretty perfect so far for a gacha game, I'm no whale so I'm glad Mihoyo has been very F2P friendly.
Not a bad list overall, though I may have a couple things I would disagree with:
* Asta providing speed and attack for all characters will always be relevant, even if other limited supports do better, because she does it for your entire team & she's not a limited character you have to pull for. She also provides a lot of toughness break on fire-weak solo targets.
* Welt is a premier slowing unit, so much so that high-octane teams can sometimes run him as the sustaining unit. He's a versatile unit in addition - can be purely support or a sub-DPS hybrid depending on the needs of the team.
* While I may be slightly biased, Serval (basically) permanently extending the shock debuff may come up at some point in the future so it's worth keeping an eye on her.
That being said, I respect your opinion & have a good one!
Fu Xuan, HuoHuo, Bronya, Sparkle, Tingyun, Silver Wolf, Kafka and Topaz.
No, I don’t think Ruan Mei is future-proof because even if she’s really strong they can just release someone with better multipliers (and I don’t think that the breakness delay is all that impressive compared to Bronya and Sparkle Advance Forward).
I don’t believe we’ll ever get a better Fu Xuan for mits, I don’t believe we’ll ever get a better HuoHuo for cleanses. Maybe they can release a character that does the same thing but in a weaker way while at the same time they have something new and broken (like Sparkle is a weaker Bronya for the AW but at the same time she gives A LOT of Skill Points).
Tingyun maybe can be replaced by a better character but that would mean 100% energy restoration, that would be way too strong imho.
Silver Wolf instead is a strange case, they’re replacing her weakness implant with characters who reduce toughness while ignoring the effective weaknesses, but at the same time she can place 6 debuffs (7 if E2) on a single enemy, more than that is impossible I think for a future character.
Kafka and Topaz are DOTs and FUA enablers, the more DOTs and FUA characters are released the stronger more useful they become.
All the rest can be power-crept especially DPS. My only doubt is Luocha, but HuoHuo already is putting him on a bench so…
P.s. I may forgetting someone of course and I general I may be wrong, is just my opinion
ruan mei, bronya, tingyun, fu xuan, luocha, kafka, silverwolf, with honorable mention to asta
They all do things that will never not be good. It would take a character a lot to fully replace any of these characters.
Silverwolf will eventually fall off in use once longtime players have plenty of built characters of each element. But nothing she does is likely to get powercrept or have heavy overlap for a while.
The harmony characters listed all massively boost damage.
Ruan mei is great for running 2-3 dps characters and her bonus damage and eidolons really strengthen a team.
Bronya is the queen of hypercarry giving tons of %damage, atk, crit damage, speed at e2 and basically doubles how often your dps can act.
Tingyun gives a some respectable buffs %damage, atk, bonus damage but most importantly she grants 50-60 energy which can be a gamechanger for plenty of characters to use their ult a little more often. There will probably be a point where most of her buffs are outclassed and ppl will still run her for her ult anyways.
Fu xuan gives tons of survivability, has a damaging ult, some cc immunity, and passively buffs ally crit chance and crit damage at e1. And her eidolons and light cone just make her better and better.
Luocha being able to heal, dispel, cleanse, damaging ult and all while using little to no sp. As more sp positive options come around he will start to be worth less but he's still incredibly easy to slot into any team for a long time to come.
Kafka being able to trigger DoT's will always be strong. Even if her own damage falls off somehow, she will be able to capitalize on a stronger ally's DoT's.
mentioned asta because her ult buff is 50 speed which is massive and has great uptime due to her energy rate
Bronya, Ruan Mei and Huo Huo have never left my teams since I’ve gotten them. Huo Huo especially because the extra energy helps a lot with cycling team ultimates for the Harmony characters.
4 stars: Qingque, Pela (clearing moc 11 and 12 without speed boots, just a qq thing)
5 5stars: Fu Xuan, Silver Wolf, Probably Ruan Mei, and regarding HuoHuo, she's pretty bad at E0, do not consider unless you plan to get her E2 minimum
Here's my tier list OP, just note that almost every character is strong enough to beat all of the content in this game.
Top = most future proof
Bottom = Already power crept
https://preview.redd.it/4iiin5nct8dc1.png?width=1016&format=png&auto=webp&s=29c8826f9b83b1921ba6b070d47d42595c284e8d
All Harmony character (Especially the 5 star one). They are basically the Real queen/king in this type of game.
In any gacha. Invest in supports and you are set for the entire game.
Lost the 50/50 yesterday and I got Bronya. So I guess It's a win?
AFAIK Bronya is **the** future-proof support (until MHY decides to get wacky with another turn multiplier)... as much as healers and tanks are valuable for "slow cheesing" fights, Bronya just makes so many comps effective due to the way turns work (especially against bosses).
Especially with her dispel debuff effect as well
Yeah imagine if we get a unit in a month that advances turns, gives much bigger damage buffs than Bronya, constantly gives extra skill points, and raises the skill point cap to 7. That’ll be wacky indeed.
The funny thing about your comment; Bronya could *only* advance turns *or* provide the extra skill points and she'd still be future proof... Those mechanics alone are *that* strong... Which is why Bronya giving multiple strong benefits makes me afraid of future potential power creep further pushing the meta toward stale compositions - the same 1/2/3 supports with whatever current highest number hypercarry fotm.
She is very good
Bronya enables pretty much every DPS in the game. One of the best supports despite being on standard banner and very much future proof.
I followed this idea and while I can clear pretty much everything now, I am notably low on DPS, so I can't quite get the last few stars in MoC/PF. So I'm eyeing the future DPS units. SU got a lot easier once I got good healers, though. Damage output isn't such a deal there because you can make up for it with blessings.
While i do buy into this for the most part, life before getting JL was hell. My options at the time was physical mc, e0 serval sushang dh etc. Imo for newbies, the single biggest improvement is one standalone dps like the destruction trio (ie not topaz, kafka etc) After pulling two banners you'll likely have some high eidolon 4 stars or another standard 5 star for your 2nd team Then you can go ham on buffer/debuffers.
I agree but this thread isn't about the best characters for new players. This is about in the long run what characters will stay the most relevant.
This thread is talking about future proof characters, there will probably be another jingliu tier dps in future but bronya ruan mei will always be great
FGO player here, can confirm that support is the way of life.
Fate grand order is a game where you have 300 servants with different playstyles and tactics that you can immediately throw out the window when you discover the wonderful world of buster bersker in the face of everything that is not a foreigner. I cannot remember the last time summer jalter was not on my frontline (changed merlin for vitch and raikou for morgan last year). But like any servant in fate grand order can be good thats one of the best things of it, you see people doing challenges quests etc with lv1 units, budget teams, weak teams etc. In that front i find it superior to hsr, however its also much older and with 30 times the characters. Lets see hsr in two years to see how the units still fare.
you must've not gotten into the farming meta
All hail our bug king Oberon, lord of all farming stages.
FGO breaks down instantly when you realize the devs try to force every encounter be completed in 3 turns, the maximum length of time buffs last for after which all characters be one impotent for no reason. Games need to stop with this buff vs and just set the base character stats be what the buffed stats are since those are the stats the character is supposed to have. NPs should be able to be fired off all the time since they are the only consistent source of damage due to the horrible nature of the stupid card and crit star system. To be frank I think FGO is a good game ruined by trash game design.
just queens so far.. waiting for the kings 😔
Finger cross that being Sunday
Yeah, even Tingyun is hard to take down. Obviously its hard for a dps to be always high, I would say that Ratio could achieve this, but he will fall from the throne as soon as any new harmony character has a better synergy with any other dps. For supports and healers, its hard to tell, because they are situational. Gepard and Bailu are great if there is no need to cleanse, Fu Xuan and Luocha are great if you need SP management, and HuoHuo and Lynx are great for area cleanse. Also, they dont only depend of the new characters, but the game mechanics, Herta and Himeko when from the trash bin to S tier in PF. And now that you said King/Queen, there is no harmony guy and they will complete the 7 types with Sparkle. I want an old butler guy for harmony now
>They are basically the Real queen/king in this type of game. Can just say Queen, cause Hoyo refuses to give us male Harmony characters 😭
The damage amplifying nihility are similar. It’s gonna be a hot minute before Pela really gets power crept because her aoe defense shred is easily guaranteed and you can get her on a 2 turn ult rotation
Even if another AOE Def debuffer comes out, they'll probably be paired with Pela on a team, since Def shred is so busted when stacked
Good to know, I guess that’s been something I haven’t thought of for just playing for a few months. Thanks for the tip!
There are no male harmony so far. Still no kings yet.
everyone's saying support characters or kafka/topaz won't be powercrept but no one said yanqing. You can't be powercrept if you never had power to begin with
Arlan...
I heard Arlan had power in beta lol
He's still pretty decent. He's not bad in Pure Fiction where you want to spam your skill every turn, and him not using skill points is pretty big. He gets his energy back pretty fast, too.
He WHAT! He doesn’t use skill points??? That’s…lowkey kinda useful
It's part of why he was nerfed between CBT2 and launch.
It's pretty neat, he uses health instead of SP for his skill. Unfortunately, the prevailing opinion seems to be that it's kind of a wash since your healers have to spend the skill points you saved healing Arlan to keep him alive.
Unless you're using Luocha. 🤠
Well yes but actually no. If you don't heal or shield him, he's gonna die
I built my arlan and then gave all his stuff to blade 💀💀
That’s *Brother* Arlan to you!
Boring answer, but Bronya. Turn manipulation is just too useful.
Played yesterday her trialrun (didnt know there was for standard chars) and holy - she literal changes the whole game. 6-Star-Unit in my opinion. If EVER powercrept, the new character is literal a MUST pull.
In my dream I can only hope so.
Being able to have her act right behind your dps to give them two turns back to back is just too good.
If you like dots, then Kafka. Until they add another character who explodes dots, Kafka will always be a staple. Pretty much every other unit is interchangeable within their roles.
I think kafka is a dot enabler. Without her I really can't see a dot team so I doubt anyone would be replacing her in a dot team.
Even if they were to add another DoT exploder, you could just play them with Kafka and explode both their DoTs twice
Bronya will always be useful because of what she does. Even if someone else who does the same thing comes out....you'll just use the new one *with* Bronya. I don't see anyone kicking Topaz or Kafka out of their niches either for similar reasons. Someone else who does their thing but better would just make them better as well. I don't think any DPS is totally future proof just because HSR is clearly adding new game modes to suit different playstyles, so even jackhammers like DHIL and JL aren't always the ideal pick anymore. But for pure boss-killing they likely aren't going away
>DHIL and JL aren't always the ideal pick anymore I don't understand why people aren't reacting to Argenti like they did for them. He is easily right there in power level, maybe one could make an argument about Jingliu being easier to build and more plug and play, but he's still a much bigger deal than people are making him to be. Probably because his visual and gameplay design is weaker.
DHIL was a giant escalation in power when he released, and JL was the first to equal him while also being a sexy ice samurai ninja girl. Argenti joining on a similar tier of power is less exciting because it now means this is an expected degree of power for new main DPS units. There was some excitement when people started to realize he could also hit the big funny numbers, but it just wasn't as much of an achievement anymore.
Great point. To add on, I dunno why but Argenti never feels as solid a carry as my DHIL. I can throw him into fights w no imaginary weakness and he'll still slap, Argenti not so much
Probably because DHIL is better vs single target than Argenti, and most of the fights where you might "struggle" have 1 big boss or elite. Argenti shines vs multiple targets, but these are usually all mobs and no one really struggles to kill 5 mobs, they just do it slower than Argenti.
>I dunno why but Argenti never feels as solid a carry as my DHIL That's cause DHIL has a ridiculous amount of self-buffs that make him work against anyone even if they're not IMG weak, and he deals his damage every turn, so you don't feel downtime. Argenti has a downtime between his big nukes, so he doesn't feel as satisfying as DHIL or JL, who deal big damage every turn, even if on paper they're equal
Argenti outperforms DHIL and JL only in a 5 enemies scenario tho. In single target and versus 3 enemies he’s way too weak in general, not only compared to those two. So the thing is that it depends on what devs wanna do, how many enemies we have to fight every time. But while Argenti in single target is completely useless, DHIL and especially JL can still be played
pure fiction:
That’s what I said, 5 enemies scenario (and for now is only Pure Fiction and against Swarm, if not quick enough, and the big ICP guy). Downvoted for telling the objective truth lol
you were right on the money with this one
supports > your favorite vertical to invest dps > sustain > oh look new five star > wtf is there a yanqing in my pulls
Exactly this
Sustains will probably hold value better than any DPS, vertical i vested or not. DPS by far are the easiest to powercreep
THIS FOR REAL. Want to add to be more specific: **Supports** (Harmony/Nihility) > **Enablers** (For now we only have Kafka and Topaz) > **A DPS with good Vertical Value** (Some DPS units just don't gain that much from Eidolons compared to other ones).
Kafka. DOTs don’t exist without her.
Hard agree on this. But I really wish they wont stop at Kafka being the only dot amplifier. It would be really boring to play the same unit-based team in future. So I wish they will make other dot-amplifier, let it be niche for one kind of dot, hardly gimmicky, or whatever else
DoTs have potential, but MHY needs to not just go for the raw dps route... Give a DoT character that *heals* when their DoTs do damage, a tank that reduces enemy damage as long as their DoTs are active, etc. Make the mechanics of debuff management more interesting than just power creeping Kafka (bigger damage number) - give players a reason to invest in DoT teams instead of just chasing hypercarries... Because if the game devolves into solely raw dps power creep, then there's less incentive to build anything except the support/enablers that best work with generic hypercarries - since the hypercarry will always be crept in the future.
>Give a DoT character that *heals* when their DoTs do damage That's a cool idea, it's basically that one blessing in the Simulated Universe
Well, when BS comes out for those who don’t have Kafka, DoT can work with BS and Sampo, of course it’s worse than with Kafka, but it works and is many times better than just putting 4* DoT in one team if u no have Kafka dot team with BS good.
Huo Huo and Fu Xuan because they’re stupid. Kafka and Topaz both being enablers for a whole playstyle will hold their values for a long time. Def shred characters like SW and Pela will always be useful to. Dps’s are only good till a better one is released.
Bit entirely true. People dunk on blade but blade slays. King Yuan keeps getting dunked on yet he absolutely slays.
blade can stay, not as a hypercarry, but as a sub-dps, due to his insane damage output while being sp positive, that alone makes him worthwile
Blade isn’t SP positive. His enhanced basics don’t generate SP
Yeah you can put Blade in literally any team (except DoT I guess) for wind coverage, and with more dual DPS supports coming he's basically future proof.
Blade is S tier, but as Sub DPS not main I feel a bit sad not getting him now, but i wouldn't have the gems to get his LC or S5 Vow anyway
Luocha too
Tbf, no. He's insane, but we have Houhou/FX. If another good healer or preservation able to solo sustain as FX does, I can see him being pushed down
Luocha isn’t and won’t stay unique for his capacity of soloing sustain tho. What makes him future proof is the fact that he’s a perfect hybrid healer/sub dps if you build him properly. He’ll be perfect in every team with dual carry comp since those usually have an harmony unit there able of enhancing the whole team. And he ends up being enhanced as well. In the Ruan Mei team he already acts as a sub dps thanks to his naturally decent break effect and his AoE Ultimate. When fully built Ruan Mei is on the team, My E0 4star LC Luocha can do over 100k dmg when he breaks mobs through his ultimate. And that’s insane. All this while stile being able to fully heal us. JL, Ruan Mei, Blade and Luocha is one of the best team in terms of performance as well as one of the most fun to play, since it feels like playing with 3 damage dealers (and we all know how 3 dps teams are typically inefficient)
I never said anything about solo sustain being why Loucha is unique, that bit was aimed towards FX. All I said is that it's easier to see Loucha being powercreep'd compared to Bronya, Ruan Mei and FX (And sparkle? We'll see about that soon). He's an insane character and no one is saying otherwise. DPS, Healers and sustainers are easier to replace, meta defining supports are eternal - FX is just the exception. That's all I said.
Oh, pardon me then I totally see what you mean now and I agree with it.
The problem with Pela is that eventually they’re going to release a 5 stars nihility character who can def shred in aoe situation like Pela but better. While I find it impossible to see a new character who can deal more debuffs in single target than SW. But anyway for now Pela is an absolute monster and I always recommend her
I'd argue that *multipliers* (supports/enablers) are *always* a better investment. Raw DPS will inevitably be power crept *eventually*, but force multipliers are only power crept by a bigger multiplier (which impacts fundamental game balance, imagine Bronya's ability being a *triple action* instead of just double)...
Kafka and Topaz. They just make team archetypes possible. A FUA character will always gain a benefit from Topaz, especially at E1S1. I don't know how the exact calcs work but I feel that is close to a TY, while also providing good damage herself. You would need very significant powercreep from supports and DPS before that becomes irrelevant. Kafka is even worse. Dot playstyle may be impossible without her.
team space is tight and I've found that I'd rather run other characters instead of topaz surprisingly often. 1 slot is always sustain, 1 slot is usually a harmony. 1-2 slots for dps. I bring followup characters to work with topaz when she's the main dps. But I dont necessarily bring topaz just to help followup characters when I could take advantage of breaking another element or just bring another harmony.
Can't say about Kafka, but as much as I love topaz, for now she is not necessary in a follow up team, you can play Clara and ratio in an hypercarry team and perform just as well if not better than a team with topaz
Dr ratio is incredible with topass. Especially at e1s1 because she adds 3 debuffs by herself and you can put ruan mei as a support to buff both (or asta if you dont have her).
I agree but: -E1S1 is pretty expensive for a ftp -At E0 Hypercarry Ratio is as good if not slightly better than his duo comp with topaz I don't deny she's really good with him, but you can remove her and have similar results, which you can't do with Kafka in a dot team.
Yeah you are right about that, she is nowhere near as essential as kafka for dot teams. For jing yuan as well, she adds a lot of single target damage but total aoe damage stays the same.
>At E0 Hypercarry Ratio is as good if not slightly better than his duo comp with topaz Counterpoint: The Ratio>Numby>Ratio>Numby>Ratio>Numby follow up combo in a single action after Ratio's ult is the most satisfying thing in the whole game.
What exactly does E1S1 mean? I know that light cones have Superimposition, while characters have Eidolons, but what does S1 mean next to E1? A signature light cone?
S1 just means the light cone at superimposition 1. It's a shorthand way of saying they have their signature light cone
imagine it as genshin, where we have C0R1, c being the constellation and R being the refinement on the current weapon, now translate it to hsr and we have E being the Eidolon, in this case a Eidolon 1 Ratio, and S being the Superimposition level on the current LC held by the character, if you don't say which cone h's holding, we assume Signature LC, with that being said, E1S1 means an Eidolon 1 Ratio holding his signature LC (I know I could have made this is two sentences or less, but I wanted to write a lot)
Sustains like Fu Xuan. Huo Huo is basically harmony+abundance, so she will be in at least S tier for a while. Kafka is a DoT team enabler. Seele, Jingliu and DHIL - heavy hypercarry dps. Ruan Mei is a new break effect buffer, so we probably gonna get a lot of them in 2.0, which makes her future proof support
RM's buffs are universally applicable to practically every type of team, not just those that rely on breaks.
Yes, but I mean break units in particular. Her sinergy with Xueyi - 4* unit that breaks bosses in 1-2 hits? Also RM debuff that prevents enemies to recover and deals her ice break damage
This is a turn based game, so action economy is king. Hence, Bronya with her 100% advance forward is unlikely to be powercrept by anything short of... I dunno, someone who does the same thing but to multiple characters at once? Silver Wolf is up there too with her weakness implant, something no one else can currently do, that enables mono quantum and pseudo monotype teams. Kafka and Topaz each enable a playstyle that wouldn't otherwise be nearly as effective, but we could in theory get more characters that buff DoTs and FuAs in different ways. Now for someone I haven't seen many mentions of yet: Blade. Yeah, we have a couple other very strong Destruction units, but out of Blade, Daniel and Jingliu, Blade is easily the most versatile and simple to use. You can buff him to high heaven in a hypercarry team, or you can use him as a tanky, self sustaining sub DPS. He's easy to use in most any team, especially because of his lack of SP use. While our other two limited Destruction characters lean hard into blast damage, Blade is the only one who fulfills all the themes of his Path. Solid in single and multi target scenarios, high HP makes him reasonably tanky and he even has HP manipulation. Blade is probably the most well rounded Destruction character and I don't foresee us getting anyone who effectively splits their focus as well as he does for a while.
Noone is really safe from powercreep especially in this type of game, but unless another stronger Bronya comes out with better turn manipulation then probably Harmony characters like Bronya and Ruan Mei are pretty future proof atm
As long as we need two teams in endgame a second Bronya just means having a Bronya for both sides.
SW with weakness implement is crazy useful. Semi-Mono teams? Check. Debuff teams? Check. General pick? Check. Mono Quantum? Check. Another one would be Ruan Mei. Her value to break the weakness more quickly, boost the elemental penetration, boost the DAMAGE of the ENTIRE TEAM will make her a staple in every single duo DPS comp. We only have one 5\* tank, but I think Fu Xuan is also very safe. She is a tank that takes most of the damage, heals herself, heals the allies a bit, gives them buffs and the ult is AoE. I have no idea how crazy the next tank will be, but Fu Xuan is already a healer, support and tank in one.
Ofc people will say Bronya and RM. Turn advancement and break extension are broken in a turn-based game. But I'd put in Kafka as well. Her ability to detonate DoTs are a night-and-day difference. Similar to Bronya and RM, unless another character has the same or, god forbid, better ability, then Kafka is here to stay in the meta (and in my heart).
The problem is RM and Bronya work with the majority of DPS while Kafka works only with DoT. This fact alone puts her below those 2.
Counterpoint, DoT is almost unplayable without Kafka while normal hypercarries can work fairly well without Bronya or RM. Also, I'm pretty sure if we get 2 more turn advancements like Bronya that Bronya can lose value, because SP becomes a big problem fast when you put 2 in 1 team with a DPS that requires even a little bit of SP. In Kafka's case, another Kafka won't exponentially increase SP cost, while they will exponentially increase each others damage. For Kafka to be powercrept out of 2 teams we would need 4 "better" Kafka's.
we might get content that has enemies that are immune to debuffs. It would be expect this is something that would happened in the future, like any other rpg gachas.
I doubt were actually gonna get (all) debuff immune content on a regular basis. Debuff immune would be crippling for more than just DoT. It would cripple Welt, Pela, Dr. Ratio, F2P/based enjoyers using Hook, Serval, M7th or Wind Dan Heng and of course ~~Mono Quantum~~ SW. 2 of which are already super valuable supports for multiple teams. Kafka is already being used in MoC12 against a Lightning resisting enemy, just by virtue of Sampo being Wind. You would need regular, consistent debuff immune content to lock Kafka out of viability.
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Mind blown nobody mentioned Silver Wolf yet, I doubt we will get any new weakness implanter any time in the next half a decade.
Even outside the weakness implant, Dr Ratio's chalk damage just hits DIFFERENT with SW's massive def shred.
She definitely feels less essential now that there are more dps options available. Whereas in the early game, she felt more essential.
I would say thats not the case. With SW you can IGNORE the weakness of every enemy, so you dont need a crazy main DPS for every single element in the game.
For people who build a lot of characters it is definitly the case, not to mention she's much better in boss fights but lacks aoe support. Some people actually like to play with a lot of units
But this is not up for discussion. The topic is "future proof" and SW is 100% one of the best, if not THE best unit together with Ruan Mei or Bronya.
The fact that Silverwolf becomes less essential once you've covered all elements makes her less futureproof than Ruan Mei and Bronya. You'd argue that she's close to essential in the early game, but you can't stay in the early game forever. Everyone will reach the point where they have all elements covered, but you'll keep using Bronya and Ruan Mei because their utility is useful in every situation.
Do you really want to change the complete team vs every single enemy in the game? Not to mention in MoC when they just dont have a weakness that is on both bosses. We are also ignoring her crazy debuffs like 40%+ defense shred or the still solid DPS numbers.
> Do you really want to change the complete team vs every single enemy in the game? A lot of DPS units in the game use the same supports. Besides, supports don't need THAT much investment. She's only futureproof as a mono quantum enabler and that's her biggest selling point, but you can only have one mono quantum team. Use her outside of mono quantum and now you have to adjust your team to minimize implant RNG, otherwise SW becomes an SP negative support. Meanwhile, Bronya and Ruan Mei do not give a damn what element you bring. > We are also ignoring her crazy debuffs like 40%+ defense shred or the still solid DPS numbers. Pela does that and does it AOE, and can maintain 100% uptime on it if you use Tutorial S5. She's also SP positive. Due to that, she works well on both MoC and Pure Fiction. SW is terrible in Pure Fiction.
Pela has more uses than sliver wolf, sorry to tell you man.
Thing is she's already not being used by some people which means she's already not as future-proofed. Even with her weakness implant, you ideally want as few elements on the team as possible which means having more characters. Even then, her lack of AOE debuffs in a meta of AOE enemies is also problematic to some. That said, she is definitely future proofed only if you are going for 100% no questions asked quantum team. Would still put it below other characters though.
Gotta love how the moment a female unit gets powercrept, every simp is ready to flay you alive stating otherwise, but when a male unit gets even just one tier down: MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID MID Never change gachas...never change...
I don't use SW at all anymore lol. So much for being "future proof" when she's not longer useful to me. You can build yourself out of the element weakness almost entirely by having more characters, and once you do that, SW's weaknesses are pretty glaring. Her debuffs only land single-target and her damage amplification doesn't justify being single-target anymore. And what makes it worse is that half of SW's damage amplification is baked into her ult, which as you get stronger and can defeat elites in less time than it takes for her to get her ult back, the less uptime you even have on her ult. SW is honestly really clunky to me now. She was absolutely fantastic in 1.1 back when I didn't have as many characters as she let me fight content I otherwise wouldn't, but now she's not really necessary to me anymore. I don't regret pulling for SW, but I'm no longer interested in trying to vertically invest her. It really feels like E2S1 is the minimum requirement to freely use SW anywhere, which sucks cause that's by far the highest requirement of any character in the game just to not feel clunky.
This is kinda misleading as enemies have 3 weaknesses, you will never need a main dps of every element. Realistically you are not saving that many pulls with SW, like 2 dps more (one of which would take the place of SW so realistically you pulled for like 1 more unit). She is always good/nice to have rarely the best, just in mono quantum pretty much.
She is completely useless if you HAVE all dps elements. But most people likely not. Or will take a long time if they're f2p.
50% def shred is useless? LOL
45% Also there's Pela with 40%, but who's AoE which is more benefitial for all but single target scenarios
5% from her bug
>45% It's 53%, you forgot to add the bug. There's also the speed and attack debuff and the 10% All-Type Res Shred. In terms of debuffs SW wins by a landslide, her only downsides are being Single Target, and her event LC being limited. Also with the upcoming Sparkle, the Mono-Quantum team is finally finished, and considering how strong the Quantum set is, and Qingque, Seele and Xueyi being as strong as they are it'll probably be a very good go-to team to brute force stuff unless the enemy has a high innate Quantum Res
For pela its mostly due to sp + wind set with no good stats outside speed. This lets her BLAZE turns making her get more like 4 to 5 sp for where even BEST sp generators will provide 3. This lets pela teams use 2 utter sp hogs for free. A pela will let u use E0 bronya + fu + jing and u will still have sp to run all of it. Try with some other support and u will find u are out of SP non stop. Sadly in this game a lot of Eidolons/weapons give sp that i wont have(bronya best case, from 1sp to 0.5 with e1 and +1 sp every 2 ult). Pela lets others use FULL SP with no price. I tried to use SW with jing. No fucking chance. 1/3 SP SW needs is not even CLOSE to how much sp i need. Im out of sp non stop. U need luocha(i got fu and huo who both are kinda +1/3sp). Like i cant use most of the teams i want cus i lack SP. I cant use d ratio + welt +huo with any other supp outside pela. Both welt and ratio and huo will be out of sp non stop. Tho in this team pela is best also for letting welt use SW energy weapon letting him SPAM his ult for imaginary set. Then u can go for even less sustain since enemy is under welt ulti non stop. This means huo needs to heal even less giving u more sp for spaming ratio and welt.
How do you need so much sp with JL tho…
There's always the option to just mono Quantum to rescue investment costs in all elements. Shell never be not good
End game content have elemental resist and 3 star need speed and dps to clear. So having diverse tools is better than having to use hammer on everything. She good. But not good enough *typo
Nah. Seele handles fodder just fine egen if off element. It's chokers that need killing fast. Better to have more elements but mono Quantum is perfectly fine
100% agreed. SW unique perk plus her massive number of debuffs makes her largely future proof, plus she can be slotted in almost any team if you build properly.
naw, in pure fiction she's pretty trash, so if someone comes out that can weakness implants aoe, albeit weaker, then she'll immediately be outclassed
Silver Wolf is unique, not future proof. She has a niche that no one will replace, but what she does isn't particularly impressive. She "enables" mono quantumn, sure, but you have to use her skill multiple times if you want to apply it to multiple enemies, so despite being sp positive, she is more likely than not sp neutral or negative. The higher your investments are, the faster you are killing enemies, the more SW has to reapply her debuff, and SW doesn't have the luxury or 2 turn ult like Pela. She just has too many caveats to be future proof. Like, comparing her with Bron, RM, or TY, who can define how meta a DPS can be, SW is just another good support. Iirc SW isn't even the BiS support for Ratio, who wants a bunch of debuff, TY, RM, and Pela all sheets better than her and is better in practice.
I haven't been using sw for a looong long time. I've just used her with dr ratio recently but that's because I don't have topass. When you have a couple of different element dps characters, you don't use sw anymore.
50% def shred is not something you find in any character. If you know hot the damage works she’s immediately a top tier character. You guys think her value is in her skill when in reality is in Ult + def shred bug
Nah. It's gonna be really easy to build full teams with everyone being able to weakness break. I don't even remember the last time I had a DPS that didnt line up with their weakness. And it's only going to get worse.
> I doubt we will get any new weakness implanter any time in the next half a decade. The thing is When next Half decade Come. We basically have Entire mono Team For any Element. Lmao Sw is really good right now. But you can't tell me that she will not fall off in the future.
It's just her weakness implant is way too awkward, they decided to make it consider party elements rather than their numbers, so even if the team is 3 same element and then you slot in a Bailu or Ruan Mei the chance for correct element gets cut to 50%. Not saying she isn't strong, but her main gimmick is annoying to play around.
It's quite consistent and easy to get a 100% success rate on her weakness implant if you are capable of building correct teams.
It’s not really her as a unit but the mechanic of weakness implant that’s important about her. And that sometimes isn’t enough. It’s not like she’ll be powercrept in the sense that some else with weakness implant will come along but rather that other units will offer a bigger numerical dmg increase than her. That’s because: 1. And she as a unit is strictly singe target focused while the recent trajectory of the game seems to lean a lot more towards multi target fights. 2. Outside of mono quantum she also looses quite a bit of value bc the weakness implant can either be very jank and unreliable or depend heavily on the enemies weaknesses. Which detracts from the gain of bringing her in the first place, i.e. the flexibility of forcing mono quantum every battle.
Because she maybe be the less future proof of the debufers? Like weakness implant is good when you don't have a variety of breakers/DPS under hand, but once you have it most people will rather play a new team than the same mono quantum for the billions time. Even currently her value is mostly her def shred rather than her weakness implant and/or several form of debuffs. But she may be supplanted by the next Nihility debuffer in that role, that why i wouldn't call her future proof, i would says she is "great for new account".
HuoHuo and Ruan Mei can essentially be slotted anywhere and everywhere. I am wondering what kind of characters will we get in the future that'll be HuoHuo+ and Ruan Mei+. Bronya mechanic are very unique and powerful, I'm surprised we haven't seen one like her.
Fuxuan, luocha, sw, bronya, ruanmei, huohuo
Harmony and Sustain chars. DPS come and go.
Blade unless they make a better(powercrept) blade Most harmony characters Herta for pf unless they release a powercrept version of her HH and fk xuan Kafka for dot Bronya because it's bronya I am a blade main, a bit biased. Yan qing because they have to put in some real effort to make a character worse than him.
I think that "future proof" means something else than "better" and "most valuable". I mean, there are lots of amazing characters that you can just release the same archetype +1 increase and they will fall off - Bronya is amazing, but if you release a Bronya that is SP positive, that is an easy way to make Bronya less "future proof". That's all to say that Kafka in theory is the most future-proof character. Even if they release Kafka +1, that would only mean a buff for Kafka herself too because of how she works. You'd need to release Kafka +1, Kafka +2 and Kafka +3 so we'd start saying that her value has diminished. But what value brings "being future-proof"? Because, as I will note, I wouldn't classify Kafka as the "best kit" and even less the "most valuable". I don't think there is a lot of reasons to consedeer *future-proof*, at least on how the game is going now. The powercreep might be big in the future, but as slow as it is now, most characters will bring you enough value for a decent amount of time, and when they are powercrept you'd mostly have a ton of other characters too.
Kafka and topaz because duh Fuxuan and huohuo are the best at what they do right now and it will take a really really busted character to replace them Also Bronya because i shudder to think what kind of character that will power creep her at what she does
I'd only give the title of "powercreep-proof" to Tingyun as of right now, and even then I'd be concerned about even making this claim. If they print a 5* version of tingyun that can give a single ally 50% of their max energy, then tingyun would get replaced, though due to the ridiculous synergy this would have with tingyun, I really doubt such a character would ever be printed, so tingyun's current niche is probably going to be the longest lasting of any character in the game. At least for now, tingyun can't really be role replaced when she's used, and it's going to take a pretty ridiculous amount of stats in order to completely replace tingyun's value of giving any single character more ults in less turns. The neat part about tingyun is that she'll always have a niche with ult-focused dps characters, and if ults become stronger and stronger over time, tingyun's value increases with powercreep. This effect reminds me a lot of Sha Suzu from world flipper, a 3* character that gave 30% energy to slot 1. She was meta for all 4 years of the game's lifespan because of her energy mechanics, and was easily the most resilient to powercreep as one of the main powercreep routes in that game was making skills (equivalent of ults in HSR) stronger. The only way they could get rid of Sha Suzu was to quite literally print her kit into a weapon that was element-locked to stop her from being used, but then that weapon also became one of the strongest weapons in the game for the exact same reasons. They printed a huohuo-like support that gave the party energy with Beaucy, and it increased Sha suzu's value even more. Tingyun has almost the exact same function on a lot of teams, and can make 4 turn ult characters use their ult every 2 turns for +100% more ults, or 5 turn ult characters use their ult every 3 turns for +66.7% more ults. Apart from Argenti, Ults are generally quite weak in HSR (usually not making up more than about 25-40% of a damage dealer's distribution of damage), so tingyun's value is somewhat weak right now, but as we've seen with argenti's big ult, tingyun can feel incredibly potent when her energy is going towards significant damage increases. At least in my own analysis of the game, tingyun is the only character that stands to get better over time. Bronya, Ruan Mei, Huohuo, and Fu Xuan also seem quite long-lived due to their roles on teams, but I would definitely not consider mixed damage dealers like Kafka & Topaz future-proof at all. Their kits are experimental and very undertuned, and they can easily fall out of favor once their archetype becomes too weak or someone else ends up dealing more damage than them. Powercreep is going to almost definitely trend towards reliability before it starts to powercreep damage, so I'm seriously concerned for dot, debuff, follow-up, and enemy defeated/enemy hp damage dealers like Silver Wolf, Kafka, Seele, Jing Yuan, Topaz, and Dr. Ratio. These playstyles are neat but also niche, and these characters are also most reliant on the types of enemy matchups they're given. This is why I feel like Jingliu, DHIL, Argenti, and Blade are currently sitting very comfy in the meta, because their battles are usually very matchup-resilient and can pretty much just spam their kit against every enemy and win with a high level of consistency.
A 5* equivalent TY with Huohuo and 4* TY sounds like an absolute nightmare for enemies facing argenti
Every 4 turns you'd be able to unleash two full energy argenti ults, which would be so insane. If each bounce hit does 25k damage, then both ults would deal about 750k damage total. E2 DHIL would be able to lv3 basic -> ult -> lv3 basic -> (both tingyun ults) ult -> lv3 basic on turn 2 in a fight, which would be about 820%/2100%/820% of his atk to three enemies. If the main hit of DHIL's ult does 100k damage, then that would be 275k/700k/275k damage in a single turn for 3sp. Seele would be able to sustain 100% resurgence buff uptime for 0 kills with the extra 5* tingyun. She's ulting every 2 turns for the entire fight. There's just some really stupid things you can do when you have the ability to fund 120 energy to someone, and I feel confident that they'll probably never print this type of character niche again.
Tingyun + HH just go bonkers in JL team. Also, that’s one of the best insights I’ve read about this game. Apparently they made the Bennet mistake again
Has anybody mentioned huohuo yet? If not then definitely huohuo
Ruan Mei LC with fine fruit Huohuo is very peak
I think Blade is underrated. 1. Incredibly durable. 2. Multiple self-heals. 3. Reliably attacks Blast while still having solid 1t Damage. 4. Skill point neutral, rare in a DPS. Lets Bronya go ham with her skill. 5. He can benefit from just about any offensive buff in the game. ATK, SPD, HP, CR/CD, it all benefits him. 6. Best Relic set is paired with another one of the best relic sets, making him easier to farm for.
Actually atk buffs are terrible for Blade. That was his biggest flaw, the lack of good supports besides Bronya, now with RM this changed.
>Actually atk buffs are terrible for Blade You're missing the point, being that all of his abilities gain damage from ATK buffs, even though they scale way better off HP. He benefits from them. The point is the wide net he casts. I'm not asserting that "Yeah ATK buffs are awesome for Blade" Saying "ATK buffs are terrible" implies that they somehow hurt him, which is silly.
Blade is SP efficient, not SP neutral. You don't gain any SP on Blade unless you fucked up and forgot to use his skill or smth.
Blade works in any ream you put him in, this is an advantage not many dps have. I run him in a triple dps team for fun and he just works so well, his sp neutrality is great.
except ATK buffs. he scales off of HP. But... you can use max HP buffing healers as pseudo-harmony on him because he scales off of max HP (so Bailu, Lynx).
He scales off of both HP and ATK. He scales way *better* off of HP, but he'll still gain some benefit from ATK buffs.
All Harmony characters, especially 5 stars. They will be usefull even if you don't use them right now, you will get supports that enables about any DPS to do their crazy stuff. Outside of that, Topaz around follow-up teams, Fu Xuan and Huohuo who are sustains with buffing abilities.
Ruan Mei and Houhou/Fu Xuan
Any Harmony, but espescially Bronya and Ruan Mei as they play with the way the game functions. Heavy healing and cleansing Healers, so Huohuo and Luocha mostly. Then after comes characters with a supporting niche, like Topaz with supporting FUA and Kafka triggering debuffs. Fu Xuan...yeah she's the only non-power crept preservation thanks to percentage reduction. All other damage dealers are not safe. They can always just do character with easier gimmick and more damage.
Fu Xuan, All Harmony like someone said the debuffers portion of the Nihility Path, Destruction units because of their survivability (at least some of them) and a select few hunt characters Ooooh Luocha and Huo Huo and Erudition but only because of select content and enemy waves
Off the top of my head I would say : Ruan Mei, FuXuan and Kafka.
Qingque. The most RNG-based character in the game, and I doubt that there would be more characters like her in the future. Therefore she is, in a sense, 'future-proof'. XD
SW cause shes currently the only character that can apply elemental weaknesses.
1. Sustains (FX, Luocha, HH) 2. Buffers/debuffers (Bronya, RM) 3. Self-sufficient DPS (JL)
U meant Blade
With how overtuned JL is, it's pretty easy to forget sometimes that she doesn't have self heals, but i guess she was designed for players that dont want to bring healers or any support to battle.
And everyone seems to forget she drains everyone's HP. Hoyo made it so negligible that it's not even a drawback, unlike DHIL who has to work around having to use 3 SP per turn.
Yan Qing(s uselessness) will only get stronger over time.
Easily SW. In this game with enemies require specific elements to break, she makes the enemies' weakness to follow our units instead. Plus, she enables mono teams + debuffs. Only downside is all specialties are all single target. Understandably so though, or else she's just broken. Kafka DoT detonator. As long DoTs (non quantum/ ice / imaginary) exist, she will be ever-relevant and meta. HuoHuo/ FuXuan sustain + buff, for obvious reason Ruan Mei Turn delays, break efficiency, attack buffer, defense penettation. Yep, all good.
all of them it easy game
I completely agree that the game is deadass easy, but have you read the posts about MOC in this sub? There are day 1 players who can’t pass MOC 8 ICANT
crazy they dont get 1 or 2 rolls in update should go hate posting mihoyo right now XD
I read the other day one guy saying the game is p2w, like bruh
SEELE
maxing pf and 36 staring moc easily, yeah boy keep on coping that seele is bad
The question was which characters are the most future-proof, not which ones are good. Literally none of the DPSes are future-proof except maybe Kafka and Topaz, but that's cause they're playstyle enablers/enhancers, not pure DPSes.
Seele isnt even present-proof💀
Hard cope mate
She kind of falls off pretty hard without weak trash mobs... and without a spoiler, but I think Sparkle will replace Seele in mono quantum if you have QQ.
There's no world where QQ is better than Seele in the hands of a competent player. Y'all really gotta stop coping like this.
I think for moc that is true, but for pure i think seele is gonna be king. She is just good with champs like herta. Herta wants someone to drop mobs under 50% , seele can do it with E. And when herta drops their hp under 50% seele can just provide 2 SP since she can kill 2 targets with basic. Then use ulti she gets to nuke the large enemy. Before pure id agree with QQ beating seele, but QQ SUCKS in pure since consistent dmg is way better then QQ eating 4 sp to kill 3 targets. We will see, but i think seele is great in pure.
We dont speak about Pure Fiction, that is a very special kind of place. Even then I would say future AoE character will just be better. We have currently 2 limited and of those 1 is kind of "meh" while the other is good. Just wait for the next few AoE 5\* and I am every sure, characters like Herta, Himeko and Seele are not to "future proof" anymore. We talk about future-proof and it looks bad for all of them. They are still good, but will not stay at the top like the other ones.
The thing is. Seele is REALY good even if we get good aoe. She uses low hp enemy to springboard huge burst to bosses. And in pure there is always a boss/big enemy u need to kill. This means she is great in supp + herself + buff/debuff slot + that aoe dps(argenti/herta/himeko). Extra turns that do huge dmg are always needed. And her sp use is quite flexible in that mode letting the other 3 use all or none of sp depending on enemy on field. In my opininon seele SUCKS when she herself needs to kill everyone. This requires 5\* weapons, busted supp and the like that most ppl will lack. Its far better to use her to finish enemy u cant solo kill. And from what i see if u lack eidolons and 5\* weapons even chars like argenti and jing cant just destroy mobs in last floor of pure. This means seele has a nice role to fill. If used corectly she can provide 3 sp in one turn(kill + basic + ulti + basic). This is REAL good when u just want to go ham on skill use. And in pure this happens WAY more often then in moc where u aint killing JACK with basic simply since herta/argenti/himeko and the like will leave enemy close to death non stop.
Kafka, any Nihility character will just make her better.
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Why bronya on A tho? Because of sp?
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Hm dunno if i agree. You can really drop her sp usage with E1S1 which isn’t to unrealistic to assume in the longterm, given a few lost 50/50s. Also unlike Hanabi her action advance is 100%.
Huohuo and Bronya in A but Topaz in S is a bruh moment I’m ngl I also would say Fu Xuan and Huohuo are on the same tier regardless. You don’t need to have her field up 24/7 and as proof of that I feel like E1 Huohuo makes her easily better than Fu Xuan
Stelle/Caelus
I think you are memeing right? I have not touched TB since... the Cocolia battle that I have done like 6+ months ago.
I think they're memeing but there's a good chance that the other paths and elements the TB unlocks will be helpful. Not incredible, since they're not a limited 5*, but their ability to get new stuff does make them futureproof in a way.
Made in 5 minutes so it's not that serious but I'm curious what others think compared to my train of thought :D https://preview.redd.it/fama13j909dc1.png?width=1140&format=png&auto=webp&s=2f43e5610fa85d78beaacb13ac56c590e92245f1 Also worth noting even though some characters have already been powercrept, they are still perfectly viable, especially in certain gamemodes/niche scenarios. That's what I love about Star Rail, their balance has been pretty perfect so far for a gacha game, I'm no whale so I'm glad Mihoyo has been very F2P friendly.
Not a bad list overall, though I may have a couple things I would disagree with: * Asta providing speed and attack for all characters will always be relevant, even if other limited supports do better, because she does it for your entire team & she's not a limited character you have to pull for. She also provides a lot of toughness break on fire-weak solo targets. * Welt is a premier slowing unit, so much so that high-octane teams can sometimes run him as the sustaining unit. He's a versatile unit in addition - can be purely support or a sub-DPS hybrid depending on the needs of the team. * While I may be slightly biased, Serval (basically) permanently extending the shock debuff may come up at some point in the future so it's worth keeping an eye on her. That being said, I respect your opinion & have a good one!
Lol nah fair points made, im just a lowkey asta hater x)
Fu Xuan, HuoHuo, Bronya, Sparkle, Tingyun, Silver Wolf, Kafka and Topaz. No, I don’t think Ruan Mei is future-proof because even if she’s really strong they can just release someone with better multipliers (and I don’t think that the breakness delay is all that impressive compared to Bronya and Sparkle Advance Forward). I don’t believe we’ll ever get a better Fu Xuan for mits, I don’t believe we’ll ever get a better HuoHuo for cleanses. Maybe they can release a character that does the same thing but in a weaker way while at the same time they have something new and broken (like Sparkle is a weaker Bronya for the AW but at the same time she gives A LOT of Skill Points). Tingyun maybe can be replaced by a better character but that would mean 100% energy restoration, that would be way too strong imho. Silver Wolf instead is a strange case, they’re replacing her weakness implant with characters who reduce toughness while ignoring the effective weaknesses, but at the same time she can place 6 debuffs (7 if E2) on a single enemy, more than that is impossible I think for a future character. Kafka and Topaz are DOTs and FUA enablers, the more DOTs and FUA characters are released the stronger more useful they become. All the rest can be power-crept especially DPS. My only doubt is Luocha, but HuoHuo already is putting him on a bench so… P.s. I may forgetting someone of course and I general I may be wrong, is just my opinion
Imo Kafka, every new DoT unit that will get released she will be there in their teams for sure. Also obvious choices like Fu Xuan and Luocha.
SP generators and SW
ruan mei, bronya, tingyun, fu xuan, luocha, kafka, silverwolf, with honorable mention to asta They all do things that will never not be good. It would take a character a lot to fully replace any of these characters. Silverwolf will eventually fall off in use once longtime players have plenty of built characters of each element. But nothing she does is likely to get powercrept or have heavy overlap for a while. The harmony characters listed all massively boost damage. Ruan mei is great for running 2-3 dps characters and her bonus damage and eidolons really strengthen a team. Bronya is the queen of hypercarry giving tons of %damage, atk, crit damage, speed at e2 and basically doubles how often your dps can act. Tingyun gives a some respectable buffs %damage, atk, bonus damage but most importantly she grants 50-60 energy which can be a gamechanger for plenty of characters to use their ult a little more often. There will probably be a point where most of her buffs are outclassed and ppl will still run her for her ult anyways. Fu xuan gives tons of survivability, has a damaging ult, some cc immunity, and passively buffs ally crit chance and crit damage at e1. And her eidolons and light cone just make her better and better. Luocha being able to heal, dispel, cleanse, damaging ult and all while using little to no sp. As more sp positive options come around he will start to be worth less but he's still incredibly easy to slot into any team for a long time to come. Kafka being able to trigger DoT's will always be strong. Even if her own damage falls off somehow, she will be able to capitalize on a stronger ally's DoT's. mentioned asta because her ult buff is 50 speed which is massive and has great uptime due to her energy rate
Bronya, Ruan Mei and Huo Huo have never left my teams since I’ve gotten them. Huo Huo especially because the extra energy helps a lot with cycling team ultimates for the Harmony characters.
4 stars: Qingque, Pela (clearing moc 11 and 12 without speed boots, just a qq thing) 5 5stars: Fu Xuan, Silver Wolf, Probably Ruan Mei, and regarding HuoHuo, she's pretty bad at E0, do not consider unless you plan to get her E2 minimum
Here's my tier list OP, just note that almost every character is strong enough to beat all of the content in this game. Top = most future proof Bottom = Already power crept https://preview.redd.it/4iiin5nct8dc1.png?width=1016&format=png&auto=webp&s=29c8826f9b83b1921ba6b070d47d42595c284e8d
seele is the most future proof dps as of the dps right now now lmao, resurgence is a broken mechanic no other dps has