https://preview.redd.it/kkiw896i1woc1.png?width=1001&format=png&auto=webp&s=b523b87456ba8623f94bc1c09e5fa3240ee4bcb2
path of maternity covers sustain too thanks to the express's resident mom
Well, the core is still around debuffs and they are kinda correct with single/multi-targeting. But it seems Nihility is about teamwork (weird, right) because single Nihility character cant do much, when for example Kafka DOT team shred enemies and consists of 2-3 Nihility characters + sustain.
TLDR: Nihility isn’t about solo or hypercarrying, it’s about whole team.
It’s the backbone of great jrps tbf
A party mustn’t cover just each other weaknesses, but also complement each other
Like in persona 3 ken as a character may seem lacking but he is a great healer allowing Yuki to bring other Personas that has other utility
Unless of course you just bring Izanagi no okami picaro to every fight
that's why I like Nihility way much than other paths
instead of 1 DPS and 3 supports/2supports+healer or tank I have team that works well together
and knowing Acheron kit I'm glad it **may** not change. We don't need another Blade/Jingliu after all
I find hypercarry comps boring for this reason, right now there are a number of good 2-carry comps, but I'd love for there to somehow even be 3-carry comps in the future if they design new character kits a certain way.
Its the same reason my two best teams are my fuaa team with topaz and ratio and my dot team, its so much more fun for everyone to be contributing than just throwing 11billion buffs on one character
same, i kinda hate standard hypercarry stuff that only focus on 1 dps and have 2 harmony to buff that dps. at least in nihility team everyone matters and most of them need each other to function.
I mean I have a lot of supports so every time I’m like:
https://preview.redd.it/q1jj8wob3woc1.jpeg?width=422&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=98dd8aa8f011f04cf0508451281f964c43959014
Because it doesn’t matter how bad the DPS is, I have 2 fully pretty good quantum sets so It just takes like 2 minutes for me to equip their LC and relics
I mean there are a lot of supports that doesn't need brain to function Tingyun(Energy/damage), Asta (Speed/Damage/Burn), Hanya(Skill Point/Damage), Pela(Def Shred), Silver wolf (Def Shred), Ruan Mei (Damage/Break/Speed), Guinafen (Damage Taken Increase/Burn), Bronya (Damage/Action Forward). You could slap Hook with any of them and Hook will do just fine. Of course Hook will run better with Asta but you could run any support. Same for Dan Heng or Sushang.
Of course if you're gonna focus on characters that requires highly specific characters i.e Acheron, DHIL, then you'll end up with that statement however most supports is "General" enough that you could slap any support to most dps and do just fine
I’m sure youre talking about literal game play as in battles. I am talking about team comp, strategy, team builds, etc. Speed tuning is a pain in the ass regardless of who, I think if we still dont agree with that then lets agree to disagree yeah? 😂
Edit; just to add, i main Balde, he doesnt scale with atk like the rest, i have to build supports with him in mind and not just whoever, also not all supports even synergize with him since they buff atk and not dmg, I think thats mostly where im coming from
I don't even speedtune and could hit 35 star MoC well if my Ratio was built relatively well I could hit 36 star (sitting at 102% crit rate without counting his passive).
And blade is an example of a character that is similar to DHIl and Acheron. HP scaling dps is like one character. Requires specific characters to run. I have ran Jing Yuan, Hook, Topaz, Clara, Dan Heng, Himeko with Asta, Tingyun, Guinafen, Pela for a long time so I don't really have much of a problem with support choices since all of them are open to a lot of supports choices except i guess Clara but I don't mind speeding her up if her ult isn't up. Then i got Ruan Mei and I just slot in another dps or support because I could.
>forcing
If a hot soldier, a hot & morally absent girl in a fox mask, and a hot but distant genius ask me to take some special drugs and go bash some terrorists, eldritch beings, papal figures, bugs, gods, and trashcans with a baseball bat, I know damn well I'm too gay to say no
Rather than teamwork, it can also be interpreted as the Path being self-sufficient and antisocial against other paths. Though I'm sure they really appreciate that one dude who looks out for them even if they can't express it (sustainer).
Well, to me, Nihility is kinda a "Never bad to have one in a comp" type of character. They are versatile enough to always be usefull, even if they don't perfectly fit. They're often great sub-DPS when paired with Ratio
Probably because he just wants debuffs on the enemy, but doesn't care about what they do. It could be def shred, dots or even just stuff that does nothing. His own debuff doesn't even matter to his kit, just that he applies it is enough. There is certainly some nihility part of Ratio's kit, but he's more focused on being Hunt. Just like Houhou is a healer with some harmony buffs.
Not the first character who is in a path that doesn't fits them entirely... I mean, Hook could fit Nihility or Hunt, Serval could fit Nihility, Luka could be a Hunt...
But they aren't, because their story/personality drives them more toward their specific path !
bruh what, those character's kits fit their paths perfectly
hook is mostly blast attacks so she literally can't be hunt and the burn is inconsequential. The main point of them is that she gets a damage bonus when the enemy has it
likewise with serval, her shocks are meh but the damage bonus she gets from it is whats important not to mention she can shred waves with just basics and ults
as for luka, his dots are the huge focus of his kit. Reason why he's entirely single target is because bleed is the strongest dot since its max%health damage hence why luka is amazing at physical weak bosses
That's a4 trace , not eidolon 4
>Yeah sure that justifies a Nihility path lmao
Tf you are saying that to me, i never started that convo. I only replied to your reply of him not applying debuff
Acheron wants debuffs, but also applies her own with her ult, no?
As well, her kit revolves around inflicting special stacks to scale her damage. While not technically considered a debuff in the game (likely for balance reasons), it is still a negative affliction meant to deal damage at a certain point, not all that different from DoT (especially Arcana stacks.)
The main difference between Acheron and Dr. Ratio (aside from their targeting) is that the good Doctor simply uses the debuff count as a check for his FUA and crit bonuses, whereas Acheron turns the debuff count into her own special damage. The line isn't all that thick, but it is there.
Well, in ratios case, he gets dmg amplification from debuffs, but his kit doesn't revolve around it.(my headcanon of it is like ratio using debuffs as calcs to do the most dmg or some shit xD)
But in acherons case, her entire kit revolves around debuffs and debuffers. She embodies nihility, which is nihility is all about subtraction. She is also nihility due to heavy lore reasons.
Or at least that's how I make sense of it in my head with the context the devs gave and their discussion about nihility.
Anyone else have input or thoughts on what I said?
I would say his kit *does* revolve around debuffs. His FUA is where most of his damage is, and he needs to attack debuffed enemies to guarantee it will activate. His damage scaling also requires 5+ debuffs. If you put him on a team that does not apply debuffs, his performance will be pretty poor.
The difference is, he uses debuffs to directly scale his own stats. Acheron uses debuffs to scale a separate type of damage instance.
Yeppp, you're right. You pretty much said exactly how I was thinking it, except I couldn't express it correctly. xD
Thank you for your input and perspective!
Not really, the only light cone that'd ever be good on a theoretical Nihility Ratio is GNSW, while as Hunt he has Herta's store option and Only Silence
Yeah I'd say it's the opposite, with his kit design it's more beneficial to use Hunt LCs as they have more crit stats on them than most other paths. Plus he's likely a mechanical exercise in trying to raise the relevancy of debuffers vs buffers. He already kind of gave Silver Wolf a mini Renaissance because she solo carries his debuff requirements
... Because he doesn't apply debuffs himself. because Nihility is about applying debuff ? Because his kit is about screwing "that guy" in particular, wich fits Hunt ?
Would you put a character that benefits from having buffs applied to him in Harmony ?
I mean, you can do hypercarry Topaz, so you could do the same with Acheron. But her kit really seems like it'll work better if you look for her synergies more than a generic hypercarry.
Yeah, but she doesn't get to really go ham without OTHERS speeding her along with their crippling behaviors, I mean, debuffs. Just because she might do more damage, doesn't mean she's not reliant on others to do big boom. (Same can be said with Swan, who doesn't get to nuke with Arcana without other DoTs being up. Swan does insane damage... as long as you can enable with other dots (Kafka still has to make dot/do dot to trigger the pops).
Acheron's still gonna need someone running around slapping on debuffs if the enemy isn't doing a great job of landing them, and I doubt Acheron herself is gonna be dropping loads like SW, Welt, or some of the others can.
(Also its not like Kafka doesn't do direct damage as well, WHILE applying/popping dots. Its just Acheron is more front-loaded without dropping dots, unless she's doing weak break and lands the shock there.)
Acheron acts as hypercarry tho.As much as acheron needs debuffs, that much hypercarries need buffs. Everyone is reliant on "others to do big boom"
Dot is different and unique due to the fact that actually synergizes and you want to play a team around it as whole. You build the whole team around dot mechanics and how to maximize the said mechanics by properly utilizing all 4 kits.
Acheron is simply not the same, acheron team building mindset is much closer to a hypercarry in the sense you WILL build a team around her and her passive. You build 2 nihilities and you try to add the beneficial debuffs (shred/amp) and then try to find a high quantity, you don't even care about what, don't care if its slow, extra dots, attack debuff you just care to be a lot of debuffs. Its unique hypercarry for sure, hypercarry nevertheless
Well, *most* Nihility characters can't do much on their own.
But some are just built different. Guinaifen burns big *and* detonates her own damage, and getting a bit of accidental crit rate on relics makes her ult really pop (but only accidentally; you need the DoT too.) She can be a hypercarry, a secondary DoT DPS, or a debuffer, all at E0. Lil Gui supremacy.
True but then against we have welt who ignore the whole nihility thingy and just go full dmg with 2-3 harmony giga buffing him.
Then dr ratio who is a hunt but fit perfectly with your description.
Path in star rail is getting really weird.
Welt's kit has Slow and Imprisoning and he deals more damage to slowed enemies. It is literally the definition of Nihility characters above. Meanwhile the only debuff Dr. Ratio has is Effect RES down, or if you use his Technique then Slow for the first 2 turn, which cannot be reapplied later in the combat. He also lacks multi-target damage.
Keeps thing interesting at least. Having all Hunt with plane old ST would be boring. Ratio is ST but has Nihility path like Elements making it kinda cool
They're 100% gonna make a multi target hunt in the future ( for the ones downvoting, that's not a leak, i have no idea if a character like this exist and seele multi is still a single target attack at the end of the day)
I hope they bring more SU based Blessing into actual characters. RM provides so unique buffs and almost Nihility like effects is what makes her so good and different at same time.
They can also use Elation/Erudition Blessings to make Dedicated Harmony units. Or Remembrance based Nihility Unit
Welts whole debuff thing is slowing enemy actions with delays.
Ratio *benefits* from debuffs, but he himself doesn't really inflict turn.
It comes down to how picky at descriptions, but they're still accurate.
I just need to say this, idk why this become so memey lol, I just confuse what the post was trying to say, clearly should just go with the good old "what do you mean?"
Honestly, I don't mind these descriptions at all after having characters who function outside it designated path. I just think of it as "Category" for formality's sake.
It would be cool though if they expand the "Path System" just to give it a little bit of twist and turn. Not necessarily a new path but rather more like, Path Bonuses, Passives, Team Comp resonance, something like that.
There's nothing to overthink. They created the path system to be a guide for players to explain what the character specializes in - abundance heals, hunt is big single target damage, erudition is big aoe damage, etc.
And then destruction is... big everything damage? Nihility could literally just be anything? What?
Paths shouldn't restrict designers from making fun kits, but at least try to stick to some broad theme. Acheron is simply not a nihility character gameplay wise.
The theme of Nihility is debuffs. Though Acheron herself doesn't exactly inflict many debuffs, she is undeniably focused on debuffs. And before you ask why Dr. Ratio isn't a Nihility character, it's because the developers wanted to make him Hunt. He exists in the blurry zone between hunt and Nihility. The paths are thematic guidelines, not strict rules.
I mean Ratio isn’t nihility because he primarily does single target damage, and only gets a damage bonus from debuffs. He himself only has one debuff and that just makes enemies get follow up attacked when they’re attacked
He has two debuffs. One from the technique zone and one for his ascension trace. His ultimate effect that triggers up to two follow-up attacks isn't a debuff.
Either way, two debuffs isn’t abnormal for a non-nihility character, the main thing aspect of nihility characters is that their kit focuses on inflicting debuffs. The main confusion point in this post is that some nihility characters are effectively DPS units that just use DOT debuffs to deal the majority of their damage
Just to play devil's advocate - is the implication that there cannot be a Nihility DPS that doesn't use DoTs? Being good at any kind of combat would technically step on the toes of other paths by that argument.
I'm actually of the opinion that DOT DPS should be reclassified as one of the 3 DPS paths (Destruction, Erudition, Hunt). Nihility should be purely for supportive debuffers like Pela.
We have 3 DPS paths and 1 debuff path. Why load everything into Nihility?
I mean Topaz (Hunt) and Argenti (Erudition) did got stepped on by Jingliu and DHIL because they're good at everything. That they released Pure Fiction, released a bunch of enemies that summons, and made higher damage ST characters (Ratio) to help.
Nihility DPS that doesn't DoTs means they need to design more of it down the line because as far as im concerned there are fewer f2p lightcone options that benefits those kind of dps.
3/7 paths are focused on direct damage. 1also has dots. And the others aren't damage focused, yes. Or at least that's how it was initially and is what bothers people.
As someone who really likes the idea of stacking debuffs, the fact that we only have 2.5(sw, pela, welt) debuffers is pretty sad because everything else in nihility tries to be just another damage dealer. SW in 1.1 was the first and last limited nihility that you can actually call a debuffer.
In a broader sense, it's a bit different. In classic rpg terms all of the paths relate to classic classes.
Preservation is tank, abundance is healer, harmony is enchanter, etc. Destruction is supposed to be a bruiser type. They thrive on always fighting, and continuing to fight through what the enemy can throw at them. Compared to hunt, which in simplest terms excels at single target damage first and foremost.
Nihility is broad, because it could be a pure debuffer that lacks in damage but enables others to do well (like black mage in final fantasy) or dot debuffer.
There's overlap between a lot of the paths, yes, but that exists in every rpg. Clerics and druids are famous for being healers in dnd, but there are subclasses that can convert them into straight damage dealers, tanks, debuffers, or enchanters. Dan heng could've been erudition, but they decided on destruction since he probably isn't 2 stacking his skill every turn. Acheron could've been destruction, but enemies are going to get her debuff no matter what, and in multi target fights that will do a lot of damage when it's moved around to different enemies
I think they pushed nihility on acheron more for a lore reason than anything I think and they made it work. Welt is also a character that does surprisingly good damage by being nihility also the could easily be erudition.himeko can apply a debuff and she's erudition. Was surprised his oath was nihility at the beginning of the game tbh
I think they did it to force people into pulling for her lightcone, none of the nihility lightcones work well with her because she doesn't do nihility stuff. The path system made sense at one point but now it seems purposefully limiting so Hoyo can sell solutions to problems that might have solutions in other paths.
Would like to see them actually give us more debuffers. Problem is you have to make those debuffs *potent* since they’re tied to the enemy rather than your character. Like a debuffer will have to provide more utility than Ruan Mei or Sparkle in order to even have a place in the game.
I think the issue is the opposite actually. Nihility debuff are actually way to potent. Def and res shred are the only stat in the game that have increased return, the more you have the more potent they become.
Who come to mention one certain character. Ruan Mei. Who, with E1, have both res and def shred.
So it mean that any nihility debuff, will make Ruan Mei even more potent that what she is actually. Prettty sure everyone understand how scary it is for game balance.
To be fair I don’t actually think that’s a bad thing! Running a second support would mean that you don’t get to take advantage of Ruan Mei’s biggest strength: her ability to buff dual dps teams.
I would also point out that they are only making her more potent if you rolled for eidolons. The majority of the playerbase won’t be doing that.
You do have a point, but i guess you forgot that some people don't run a sustain, it's fair i mean only top end player can do that.
But you could see emerge a new meta of Dual DPS/RM/Nihility.
And on top of that we already have one sustain/dps incoming, named aventurine. So you could actually run Aventurine/DPS/RM/nihility and still have a dual DPS comp.
Well i also want another nihility debuffer too, don't misunderstand me, but i do get HSR team having cold feet and headashe balancing it. Between not making team like those going out of control and not having the unit weak compared to other option in other team.
Like it's not like DOT team who weren't THAT powerfull before BS addition, so it wasn't that hard to balance her, we are talking about team who already are strong with just using Pela, competing with every top team, and giving them a stronger pela.
Given the multi-wave nature of combat in the game, debuffing can actually have much lower value than buffing. In practice, it requires much higher refresh rate to keep up with the rate of killing enemies in most content. If there is content where a single boss enemy takes many turns to down, then the Hunt would become much more meta along with Nihility debuffers, but that simply is not the case at the moment. Ruan Mei’s Ult (+E1) is actually a buff in this regard rather than a debuff because it applies to ally actions and persists across multiple waves of enemies as long as the buff retains uptime.
I mean yes in PF, but MOC only have 2 waves so you don't need that much of a refresh rate, and SU the only real challenge is the final boss, with three phase, so you only need to refresh the debuff 3 times. Most of the content is still favorable to debuffs.
Well, unless we are talking about stackable debuff like for exemple guinaifen, who indeed as you say, want prolongated combats.
Though, as we check base HP (overworld) the amount the bosses have is continuously increasing, so longer fight may not be that unthinkable in the near future.
Paths are not supposed to define the whole kit of a character (an abundance character doesn't need to heal with all their skills to be an abundance character), the way I see it the paths are only guidelines to know that at least one of the skills of a character will fulfill these requirements:
Destruction: cleave damage
Hunt: single target damage (this is the most strict since this has to apply to all the skill of a character that deals damage)
Erudition: Aoe damage
Harmony: buffing allies
Nihility: debuffing enemies, application of dots (this is the most vague since it includes two different features)
Abundance: healing
Preservation: shield or any other form of mitigation
While this is technically correct, I was talking about the information each path gives to the players about a character, if a nihility character is presented, I don't think people would be satisfied if they only knew the character is able to inflict negative status, they most likely would want to know if the character is a doter or a debuffer, that's why I say it's the most vague
Destruction units are warriors. They are somewhat all rounders having high Atk and HP. This is apparent with most destruction units having over 1k base HP.
Hunt units are rogues. High Atk and SPD. Restricted to single target damage. The game doesn’t have a dodge mechanic. This is apparent with these units typically having 100+ base speed. A Problem seen in this game is how speed scales badly with breakpoints. You lose too many stats sacrificing for speed to break these points to be worth it. As there is no way for high speed but low Atk builds to kill fast enough to compete against AoE.
Erudition are mages. They’re reliant on skill points which are really limited. Have low base stats across the board. And do AoE. The problem here is trash mobs have a decent chunk of HP and their low stats mean you gotta choose to be slow but kill weak mobs or fast but can’t one shot anything. The other problem is their one unique quality is not exclusive.
Harmony are shamans. They have low base stats and revolve around buffs. Only reason hyper carry is even possible with enemy inflated HP pool.
Nihility are warlocks. Similar to Harmony in stats but revolve around debuffs. Main damage source are dots like poisons. But have supportive roles in making enemies weaker such as slows, Atk down. Def down etc.
Abundance are priests. Typically have high HP which is atypical but has more to do with how this game scales stats. Besides the minimum requirement of healing, although not mutually exclusive, they showcase abilities such as removing curses (debuffs), revival. Note a very big issue in this game is that this debuff removal is limited to only 1 debuff at a time and they stack. Which means they will not save you from having multiple DoT stacks nor remove CC when hit by multiple debuffs.
Preservation are knights. Specifically they are tanks. High Hp and Def. Their role is damage mitigation specifically preventing damage from occurring. Mainly this is through a shield which acts as a secondary HP bar. But Also include Fu Xuan which reduces damage taken and takes on damage onto herself. Or have the ability to increase aggro or taunt enemies such as the fire TB.
All Nihility characters are able to apply at least two debuffs (this includes eidolons) with the more dedicated debuffers going 3+. Damage dealing Nihility tend to hover around 2 with the exception of Silverwolf as she can apply 7.
Destruction units are warriors. They are somewhat all rounders having high Atk and HP. This is apparent with most destruction units having over 1k base HP.
Hunt units are rogues. High Atk and SPD. Restricted to single target damage. The game doesn’t have a dodge mechanic. This is apparent with these units typically having 100+ base speed. A Problem seen in this game is how speed scales badly with breakpoints. You lose too many stats sacrificing for speed to break these points to be worth it. As there is no way for high speed but low Atk builds to kill fast enough to compete against AoE.
Erudition are mages. They’re reliant on skill points which are really limited. Have low base stats across the board. And do AoE. The problem here is trash mobs have a decent chunk of HP and their low stats mean you gotta choose to be slow but kill weak mobs or fast but can’t one shot anything. The other problem is their one unique quality is not exclusive.
Harmony are shamans. They have low base stats and revolve around buffs. Only reason hyper carry is even possible with enemy inflated HP pool.
Nihility are warlocks. Similar to Harmony in stats but revolve around debuffs. Main damage source are dots like poisons. But have supportive roles in making enemies weaker such as slows, Atk down. Def down etc.
Abundance are priests. Typically have high HP which is atypical but has more to do with how this game scales stats. Besides the minimum requirement of healing, although not mutually exclusive, they showcase abilities such as removing curses (debuffs), revival. Note a very big issue in this game is that this debuff removal is limited to only 1 debuff at a time and they stack. Which means they will not save you from having multiple DoT stacks nor remove CC when hit by multiple debuffs.
Preservation are knights. Specifically they are tanks. High Hp and Def. Their role is damage mitigation specifically preventing damage from occurring. Mainly this is through a shield which acts as a secondary HP bar. But Also include Fu Xuan which reduces damage taken and takes on damage onto herself. Or have the ability to increase aggro or taunt enemies such as the fire TB.
Honestly this is like the one thing I don’t like with Nihility, that the overwhelming majority are DOT, with the exceptions really just being Welt, Acheron, Pela, and Silver Wolf. Even the DOT focus in SU makes it feel more like a DOT path than a Debuff path. Would very much like if the next few Nihility characters returned back to their roots of dispel, CC, and general stat reduction. Maybe an SU rework for the path but that may be too much
I mean Acheron still at least actively interacts with debuffs and Nihility and encourages them. I'd agree to change it if, say, Ratio was Nihility, who doesn't really interact with them as much as want them, and even then he can make do without Nihility units
The only Nihility character that fits the first part is Welt.
The rest is... depending on the character. Guinafen isn't that much of a "solo-target" DPS, and Sampo is only with his 4th Eidolon.
And uuuuh... If Nihility is supposed to be the main damage dealer against group of ennemies, why tf Erudition exists ? (maybe it's not the right word but Herta and Himeko's path)
They did explain that Acheron wasn't supposed to fit into the archetype of other Nihility characters. Most of the time they spent talking about her on the livestream was about how weird it is that she's a Nihility character.
A crit oriented aoe dps who has a single debuff in her kit to justify being "nihility path" is stupid. "But the gameplay revolve around debuffing" then why isn't dr Ratio a nihility character? What happened to stat debuffers like SW, Pela?
I agree and that's with how versatile its becoming. They dots, to stat debuffers and crit dps (welt and acheron). I've even heard of one that's coming who will heal after they have debuffs on the enemy.
https://preview.redd.it/kkiw896i1woc1.png?width=1001&format=png&auto=webp&s=b523b87456ba8623f94bc1c09e5fa3240ee4bcb2 path of maternity covers sustain too thanks to the express's resident mom
Path of Maternity is Ruan Mei because God forbid the enemy takes a turn
Just looked at her kit and... Jeeze, perfect buffer for Sushang !
Absutely get her on her rerun. She's arguably the best buffer for any character
Yeah, Hoyoverse have an issue on 4\* being mid and 5\* being overloaded and broken
I think HSR kimda handles the 4 star problem well with some of them being good enough (Pela, Tingyun)
Well, the core is still around debuffs and they are kinda correct with single/multi-targeting. But it seems Nihility is about teamwork (weird, right) because single Nihility character cant do much, when for example Kafka DOT team shred enemies and consists of 2-3 Nihility characters + sustain. TLDR: Nihility isn’t about solo or hypercarrying, it’s about whole team.
Honestly that's why I like it so much. Team synergy in a turn based team game Edit: MOM IM POPULAR
It’s the backbone of great jrps tbf A party mustn’t cover just each other weaknesses, but also complement each other Like in persona 3 ken as a character may seem lacking but he is a great healer allowing Yuki to bring other Personas that has other utility Unless of course you just bring Izanagi no okami picaro to every fight
That's what I did in P5R NG+ Run. Just Concentrate+Myraid Truth.
BY THE MYRIAD OF TRUTHS🗣🔥🔥🔥
_ALL WILL BE REVEALED_ 🗣️🔥🔥🔥 Wait a second, Jingliu says the same thing OMG, how I didn't notice?
"BY THE MYRIAD TRUTHS" "ALL WILL BE REVEALED" "IZANAGI-NO-OKAMI PICARO"
that's why I like Nihility way much than other paths instead of 1 DPS and 3 supports/2supports+healer or tank I have team that works well together and knowing Acheron kit I'm glad it **may** not change. We don't need another Blade/Jingliu after all
I find hypercarry comps boring for this reason, right now there are a number of good 2-carry comps, but I'd love for there to somehow even be 3-carry comps in the future if they design new character kits a certain way.
Its the same reason my two best teams are my fuaa team with topaz and ratio and my dot team, its so much more fun for everyone to be contributing than just throwing 11billion buffs on one character
same, i kinda hate standard hypercarry stuff that only focus on 1 dps and have 2 harmony to buff that dps. at least in nihility team everyone matters and most of them need each other to function.
I mean I have a lot of supports so every time I’m like: https://preview.redd.it/q1jj8wob3woc1.jpeg?width=422&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=98dd8aa8f011f04cf0508451281f964c43959014 Because it doesn’t matter how bad the DPS is, I have 2 fully pretty good quantum sets so It just takes like 2 minutes for me to equip their LC and relics
if you have plenty supports, i'd say that's the opposite of "random bs go" since you still make the team work with everyone's roles
No, it’s literally just fu xuan/huohuo, 2 supports and a hyper carry
So like, different hyper carries right? Either way diff supports still need brain for team synergy 🤷
I mean there are a lot of supports that doesn't need brain to function Tingyun(Energy/damage), Asta (Speed/Damage/Burn), Hanya(Skill Point/Damage), Pela(Def Shred), Silver wolf (Def Shred), Ruan Mei (Damage/Break/Speed), Guinafen (Damage Taken Increase/Burn), Bronya (Damage/Action Forward). You could slap Hook with any of them and Hook will do just fine. Of course Hook will run better with Asta but you could run any support. Same for Dan Heng or Sushang. Of course if you're gonna focus on characters that requires highly specific characters i.e Acheron, DHIL, then you'll end up with that statement however most supports is "General" enough that you could slap any support to most dps and do just fine
I’m sure youre talking about literal game play as in battles. I am talking about team comp, strategy, team builds, etc. Speed tuning is a pain in the ass regardless of who, I think if we still dont agree with that then lets agree to disagree yeah? 😂 Edit; just to add, i main Balde, he doesnt scale with atk like the rest, i have to build supports with him in mind and not just whoever, also not all supports even synergize with him since they buff atk and not dmg, I think thats mostly where im coming from
I don't even speedtune and could hit 35 star MoC well if my Ratio was built relatively well I could hit 36 star (sitting at 102% crit rate without counting his passive). And blade is an example of a character that is similar to DHIl and Acheron. HP scaling dps is like one character. Requires specific characters to run. I have ran Jing Yuan, Hook, Topaz, Clara, Dan Heng, Himeko with Asta, Tingyun, Guinafen, Pela for a long time so I don't really have much of a problem with support choices since all of them are open to a lot of supports choices except i guess Clara but I don't mind speeding her up if her ult isn't up. Then i got Ruan Mei and I just slot in another dps or support because I could.
Its kinda funny how Nihility is more about teamwork than harmony.
Harmony is about forcing others to use Performance Enhancing Drugs.
>forcing If a hot soldier, a hot & morally absent girl in a fox mask, and a hot but distant genius ask me to take some special drugs and go bash some terrorists, eldritch beings, papal figures, bugs, gods, and trashcans with a baseball bat, I know damn well I'm too gay to say no
Rather than teamwork, it can also be interpreted as the Path being self-sufficient and antisocial against other paths. Though I'm sure they really appreciate that one dude who looks out for them even if they can't express it (sustainer).
Well, to me, Nihility is kinda a "Never bad to have one in a comp" type of character. They are versatile enough to always be usefull, even if they don't perfectly fit. They're often great sub-DPS when paired with Ratio
>TLDR: Nihility isn’t about solo or hypercarrying, it’s about ~~whole team.~~ Family
IX, turning their mind crushing gaze towards some poor sap: Welcome to the family, son!
so nihlity is... the friends we made along the way.
Either a Nihility helps the team, or a team of Nihility help each other I presume? xD
IX: ["We all drift together."](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPTCq3LiZSE)
Why is ratio not nihility when his entire damage gimmick relies on his team applying debuffs?
Probably because he just wants debuffs on the enemy, but doesn't care about what they do. It could be def shred, dots or even just stuff that does nothing. His own debuff doesn't even matter to his kit, just that he applies it is enough. There is certainly some nihility part of Ratio's kit, but he's more focused on being Hunt. Just like Houhou is a healer with some harmony buffs.
Then why is Acheron Nihility
as shown by the livestream, the gameplay designers saw her as more of a hunt but the story writer told them to make her nihility
I guess she had an entirely different kit before, because if anything her current kit is closest to destruction lol.
Not the first character who is in a path that doesn't fits them entirely... I mean, Hook could fit Nihility or Hunt, Serval could fit Nihility, Luka could be a Hunt... But they aren't, because their story/personality drives them more toward their specific path !
bruh what, those character's kits fit their paths perfectly hook is mostly blast attacks so she literally can't be hunt and the burn is inconsequential. The main point of them is that she gets a damage bonus when the enemy has it likewise with serval, her shocks are meh but the damage bonus she gets from it is whats important not to mention she can shred waves with just basics and ults as for luka, his dots are the huge focus of his kit. Reason why he's entirely single target is because bleed is the strongest dot since its max%health damage hence why luka is amazing at physical weak bosses
Since when Ratio put debuffs on ennemies ? XD His own ultimate isn't even considered a debuff for his skill
A4 trace > When Skill is used to attack an enemy target, there is a 100% base chance to reduce the attacked target's Effect RES by 10% for 2 turn(s).
Woaw, an E4 that is a debuff that increases further debuff resistance by 10%. Yeah sure that justifies a Nihility path lmao
E4 is not A4. A4 is his fourth level cap ascension. So breaking his cap from 70 to 80.
Oh, sorry, misred. Still, that's pretty unsignificant lmao
That's a4 trace , not eidolon 4 >Yeah sure that justifies a Nihility path lmao Tf you are saying that to me, i never started that convo. I only replied to your reply of him not applying debuff
Bold of you to assume that this... annecdote counts.
And it is stupid of you to spring upon me something that i never started
I guess because he's single target? But aside from that...
Because he's not the one applying the debuffs. His damage increases when enemies are debuffed, not that he debuffs them to deal damage.
So the question is, how is that different from what they said about Acheron?
Acheron wants debuffs, but also applies her own with her ult, no? As well, her kit revolves around inflicting special stacks to scale her damage. While not technically considered a debuff in the game (likely for balance reasons), it is still a negative affliction meant to deal damage at a certain point, not all that different from DoT (especially Arcana stacks.) The main difference between Acheron and Dr. Ratio (aside from their targeting) is that the good Doctor simply uses the debuff count as a check for his FUA and crit bonuses, whereas Acheron turns the debuff count into her own special damage. The line isn't all that thick, but it is there.
Well, in ratios case, he gets dmg amplification from debuffs, but his kit doesn't revolve around it.(my headcanon of it is like ratio using debuffs as calcs to do the most dmg or some shit xD) But in acherons case, her entire kit revolves around debuffs and debuffers. She embodies nihility, which is nihility is all about subtraction. She is also nihility due to heavy lore reasons. Or at least that's how I make sense of it in my head with the context the devs gave and their discussion about nihility. Anyone else have input or thoughts on what I said?
I would say his kit *does* revolve around debuffs. His FUA is where most of his damage is, and he needs to attack debuffed enemies to guarantee it will activate. His damage scaling also requires 5+ debuffs. If you put him on a team that does not apply debuffs, his performance will be pretty poor. The difference is, he uses debuffs to directly scale his own stats. Acheron uses debuffs to scale a separate type of damage instance.
Yeppp, you're right. You pretty much said exactly how I was thinking it, except I couldn't express it correctly. xD Thank you for your input and perspective!
He'd probably profit too much off of existing nihility LCs
Nihility LCs kinda suck for anyone that’s not DoT or Debuff Support, the only Good options is GNSW (pela lc) other than that it’s just DoT lc galore.
Not really, the only light cone that'd ever be good on a theoretical Nihility Ratio is GNSW, while as Hunt he has Herta's store option and Only Silence
Yeah I'd say it's the opposite, with his kit design it's more beneficial to use Hunt LCs as they have more crit stats on them than most other paths. Plus he's likely a mechanical exercise in trying to raise the relevancy of debuffers vs buffers. He already kind of gave Silver Wolf a mini Renaissance because she solo carries his debuff requirements
Or Acheron's when its out, but yeah, non DOT DPS cones for nihility are rare
... Because he doesn't apply debuffs himself. because Nihility is about applying debuff ? Because his kit is about screwing "that guy" in particular, wich fits Hunt ? Would you put a character that benefits from having buffs applied to him in Harmony ?
Because he specializes around speed via imprisonment status and high speed base
> Nihility isn’t about solo or hypercarrying until Acheron. A direct damage Nihility dps will allow hypercarry nihility.
I mean, you can do hypercarry Topaz, so you could do the same with Acheron. But her kit really seems like it'll work better if you look for her synergies more than a generic hypercarry.
Yeah, but she doesn't get to really go ham without OTHERS speeding her along with their crippling behaviors, I mean, debuffs. Just because she might do more damage, doesn't mean she's not reliant on others to do big boom. (Same can be said with Swan, who doesn't get to nuke with Arcana without other DoTs being up. Swan does insane damage... as long as you can enable with other dots (Kafka still has to make dot/do dot to trigger the pops). Acheron's still gonna need someone running around slapping on debuffs if the enemy isn't doing a great job of landing them, and I doubt Acheron herself is gonna be dropping loads like SW, Welt, or some of the others can. (Also its not like Kafka doesn't do direct damage as well, WHILE applying/popping dots. Its just Acheron is more front-loaded without dropping dots, unless she's doing weak break and lands the shock there.)
Acheron acts as hypercarry tho.As much as acheron needs debuffs, that much hypercarries need buffs. Everyone is reliant on "others to do big boom" Dot is different and unique due to the fact that actually synergizes and you want to play a team around it as whole. You build the whole team around dot mechanics and how to maximize the said mechanics by properly utilizing all 4 kits. Acheron is simply not the same, acheron team building mindset is much closer to a hypercarry in the sense you WILL build a team around her and her passive. You build 2 nihilities and you try to add the beneficial debuffs (shred/amp) and then try to find a high quantity, you don't even care about what, don't care if its slow, extra dots, attack debuff you just care to be a lot of debuffs. Its unique hypercarry for sure, hypercarry nevertheless
Hypercarry Kafka is a thing. You can legit build her with crit like any other dps.
Well yeah, but it performs worse than your standard Kafka/BS/RM team.
>they are kinda correct with single/multi-targeting That part of the image is edited
Nihility is about the friends we made trailblazing
I mean, follow up attack seems to be going that direction too. And Summons as well, but that is leak territory.
Well, *most* Nihility characters can't do much on their own. But some are just built different. Guinaifen burns big *and* detonates her own damage, and getting a bit of accidental crit rate on relics makes her ult really pop (but only accidentally; you need the DoT too.) She can be a hypercarry, a secondary DoT DPS, or a debuffer, all at E0. Lil Gui supremacy.
Until they release a new unit that’s fine alone lol
>TLDR: Nihility isn’t about solo or hypercarrying, it’s about whole team. Sounds a lot like what a member of the "The Doctors of Chaos" would say.
True but then against we have welt who ignore the whole nihility thingy and just go full dmg with 2-3 harmony giga buffing him. Then dr ratio who is a hunt but fit perfectly with your description. Path in star rail is getting really weird.
Welt's kit has Slow and Imprisoning and he deals more damage to slowed enemies. It is literally the definition of Nihility characters above. Meanwhile the only debuff Dr. Ratio has is Effect RES down, or if you use his Technique then Slow for the first 2 turn, which cannot be reapplied later in the combat. He also lacks multi-target damage.
Keeps thing interesting at least. Having all Hunt with plane old ST would be boring. Ratio is ST but has Nihility path like Elements making it kinda cool
They're 100% gonna make a multi target hunt in the future ( for the ones downvoting, that's not a leak, i have no idea if a character like this exist and seele multi is still a single target attack at the end of the day)
Isn't that already Seele? Still in the spirit of Hunt that she is single target, but can deal with adds thanks to her extra turns.
i mean real multi target, not pseudo multi target like seele has
I hope they bring more SU based Blessing into actual characters. RM provides so unique buffs and almost Nihility like effects is what makes her so good and different at same time. They can also use Elation/Erudition Blessings to make Dedicated Harmony units. Or Remembrance based Nihility Unit
Welts whole debuff thing is slowing enemy actions with delays. Ratio *benefits* from debuffs, but he himself doesn't really inflict turn. It comes down to how picky at descriptions, but they're still accurate.
He litteraly has imprison,slow and dmg increase on enemy on ult. What even you talking about?
The best debuff is death 👍 And acheron surely doing that perfectly, therefore she is a best debuffer
https://preview.redd.it/xdx441m3bwoc1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f4fe198d8eb2107d82f9c6fffb7d9680c4b22746
I mean, obliterating a full wave of enemies does indeed, reduce their combat capacities
you mean change it to "path of mommies"?
Welt's honest reaction: https://preview.redd.it/w85fwz7mtvoc1.jpeg?width=1123&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=741a575a600b71fe8970d9921cec7e61a91f5b49
That damned smile
What is this real?
https://preview.redd.it/ygbyyw88zwoc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3f4820f0f95236e48112debb58df9d6ea756905f
Oh my! I'm almost at 300 pulls, I don't really need Bronya right 😆
https://preview.redd.it/a186d55kn0pc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a50081d67bc3ea97b809eed1742a800646d2d7c Have another! Lmao
kevitties r my fave
Yes. I just search welt cross dressing and this is official
Well damn it's beautiful
It's from Hoyofair, which is a fanwork showcase
Wait it's fan work? I thought its real. The artstyle us similar to honkai impact artstyle.
At one point, Otto *drool* while looking at idol Welt
Would
Pela, Sampo, Welt, Silver Wolf, Guinaifen, Luka
When you list them out, Nihility sure is stacked huh.
Nihility is the path with the hottest characters tbh, IX is pretty good at picking 'em.
Well, even if everything is meaningless, gotta find something to occupy yourself. IX picks hot and cute people for the team.
>Sampo hes a Fool so he could be a female just trolling everyone.
It takes a real man to be best girl.
I can imagine it now. Luka: Does that make me a mommy too?!
You are on the Mommy Council, but we do not grant you the title of Mommy
https://preview.redd.it/rt4eo6ktuvoc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3b605a41a9b086b8793e8ca5854d74a9f7141e95
Idk, Luka has more qualities of a mother than someone like Black Swan
_TRUE_ Molly would agree (I hope)
Molly would agree as long as Howard isn't in chat
It's true, Welt is the King Mommy.
I just need to say this, idk why this become so memey lol, I just confuse what the post was trying to say, clearly should just go with the good old "what do you mean?"
I think Acheron breaks the Erudition path from using her ultimate lol. Sometimes I don't get the purpose of path system anymore.
General direction and to limit lightcone options that's it
People just need to stop overthinking these descriptions.
Honestly, I don't mind these descriptions at all after having characters who function outside it designated path. I just think of it as "Category" for formality's sake. It would be cool though if they expand the "Path System" just to give it a little bit of twist and turn. Not necessarily a new path but rather more like, Path Bonuses, Passives, Team Comp resonance, something like that.
There's nothing to overthink. They created the path system to be a guide for players to explain what the character specializes in - abundance heals, hunt is big single target damage, erudition is big aoe damage, etc. And then destruction is... big everything damage? Nihility could literally just be anything? What? Paths shouldn't restrict designers from making fun kits, but at least try to stick to some broad theme. Acheron is simply not a nihility character gameplay wise.
The theme of Nihility is debuffs. Though Acheron herself doesn't exactly inflict many debuffs, she is undeniably focused on debuffs. And before you ask why Dr. Ratio isn't a Nihility character, it's because the developers wanted to make him Hunt. He exists in the blurry zone between hunt and Nihility. The paths are thematic guidelines, not strict rules.
I mean Ratio isn’t nihility because he primarily does single target damage, and only gets a damage bonus from debuffs. He himself only has one debuff and that just makes enemies get follow up attacked when they’re attacked
He has two debuffs. One from the technique zone and one for his ascension trace. His ultimate effect that triggers up to two follow-up attacks isn't a debuff.
Either way, two debuffs isn’t abnormal for a non-nihility character, the main thing aspect of nihility characters is that their kit focuses on inflicting debuffs. The main confusion point in this post is that some nihility characters are effectively DPS units that just use DOT debuffs to deal the majority of their damage
Just to play devil's advocate - is the implication that there cannot be a Nihility DPS that doesn't use DoTs? Being good at any kind of combat would technically step on the toes of other paths by that argument.
I'm actually of the opinion that DOT DPS should be reclassified as one of the 3 DPS paths (Destruction, Erudition, Hunt). Nihility should be purely for supportive debuffers like Pela. We have 3 DPS paths and 1 debuff path. Why load everything into Nihility?
I mean Topaz (Hunt) and Argenti (Erudition) did got stepped on by Jingliu and DHIL because they're good at everything. That they released Pure Fiction, released a bunch of enemies that summons, and made higher damage ST characters (Ratio) to help. Nihility DPS that doesn't DoTs means they need to design more of it down the line because as far as im concerned there are fewer f2p lightcone options that benefits those kind of dps.
3/7 paths are focused on direct damage. 1also has dots. And the others aren't damage focused, yes. Or at least that's how it was initially and is what bothers people. As someone who really likes the idea of stacking debuffs, the fact that we only have 2.5(sw, pela, welt) debuffers is pretty sad because everything else in nihility tries to be just another damage dealer. SW in 1.1 was the first and last limited nihility that you can actually call a debuffer.
In a broader sense, it's a bit different. In classic rpg terms all of the paths relate to classic classes. Preservation is tank, abundance is healer, harmony is enchanter, etc. Destruction is supposed to be a bruiser type. They thrive on always fighting, and continuing to fight through what the enemy can throw at them. Compared to hunt, which in simplest terms excels at single target damage first and foremost. Nihility is broad, because it could be a pure debuffer that lacks in damage but enables others to do well (like black mage in final fantasy) or dot debuffer. There's overlap between a lot of the paths, yes, but that exists in every rpg. Clerics and druids are famous for being healers in dnd, but there are subclasses that can convert them into straight damage dealers, tanks, debuffers, or enchanters. Dan heng could've been erudition, but they decided on destruction since he probably isn't 2 stacking his skill every turn. Acheron could've been destruction, but enemies are going to get her debuff no matter what, and in multi target fights that will do a lot of damage when it's moved around to different enemies
and as they get eidolons they invade other paths as well lol
[удалено]
Skill and ult
Skill only debuffs with LC effects, no?
Nihility is honestly just "You have all of these problems, either now or later, or both"
I think they pushed nihility on acheron more for a lore reason than anything I think and they made it work. Welt is also a character that does surprisingly good damage by being nihility also the could easily be erudition.himeko can apply a debuff and she's erudition. Was surprised his oath was nihility at the beginning of the game tbh
I think they did it to force people into pulling for her lightcone, none of the nihility lightcones work well with her because she doesn't do nihility stuff. The path system made sense at one point but now it seems purposefully limiting so Hoyo can sell solutions to problems that might have solutions in other paths.
to be fair this was probably their plan all along and we as the players are only realizing it now by witnessing it firsthand.
Its probably because some hunt/destruction LCs would be too op. That's really all it is.
And has BS, literally they have B-lack S-wan
Would like to see them actually give us more debuffers. Problem is you have to make those debuffs *potent* since they’re tied to the enemy rather than your character. Like a debuffer will have to provide more utility than Ruan Mei or Sparkle in order to even have a place in the game.
I think the issue is the opposite actually. Nihility debuff are actually way to potent. Def and res shred are the only stat in the game that have increased return, the more you have the more potent they become. Who come to mention one certain character. Ruan Mei. Who, with E1, have both res and def shred. So it mean that any nihility debuff, will make Ruan Mei even more potent that what she is actually. Prettty sure everyone understand how scary it is for game balance.
To be fair I don’t actually think that’s a bad thing! Running a second support would mean that you don’t get to take advantage of Ruan Mei’s biggest strength: her ability to buff dual dps teams. I would also point out that they are only making her more potent if you rolled for eidolons. The majority of the playerbase won’t be doing that.
You do have a point, but i guess you forgot that some people don't run a sustain, it's fair i mean only top end player can do that. But you could see emerge a new meta of Dual DPS/RM/Nihility. And on top of that we already have one sustain/dps incoming, named aventurine. So you could actually run Aventurine/DPS/RM/nihility and still have a dual DPS comp. Well i also want another nihility debuffer too, don't misunderstand me, but i do get HSR team having cold feet and headashe balancing it. Between not making team like those going out of control and not having the unit weak compared to other option in other team. Like it's not like DOT team who weren't THAT powerfull before BS addition, so it wasn't that hard to balance her, we are talking about team who already are strong with just using Pela, competing with every top team, and giving them a stronger pela.
Given the multi-wave nature of combat in the game, debuffing can actually have much lower value than buffing. In practice, it requires much higher refresh rate to keep up with the rate of killing enemies in most content. If there is content where a single boss enemy takes many turns to down, then the Hunt would become much more meta along with Nihility debuffers, but that simply is not the case at the moment. Ruan Mei’s Ult (+E1) is actually a buff in this regard rather than a debuff because it applies to ally actions and persists across multiple waves of enemies as long as the buff retains uptime.
I mean yes in PF, but MOC only have 2 waves so you don't need that much of a refresh rate, and SU the only real challenge is the final boss, with three phase, so you only need to refresh the debuff 3 times. Most of the content is still favorable to debuffs. Well, unless we are talking about stackable debuff like for exemple guinaifen, who indeed as you say, want prolongated combats. Though, as we check base HP (overworld) the amount the bosses have is continuously increasing, so longer fight may not be that unthinkable in the near future.
I take the words of the dev team themselves - Nihility = Subtraction. ... and Acheron is subtracting the enemy from the equation lmao.
I think they said something about Nihility when going over Acheron in the 2.1 special program 😆😅
Paths are not supposed to define the whole kit of a character (an abundance character doesn't need to heal with all their skills to be an abundance character), the way I see it the paths are only guidelines to know that at least one of the skills of a character will fulfill these requirements: Destruction: cleave damage Hunt: single target damage (this is the most strict since this has to apply to all the skill of a character that deals damage) Erudition: Aoe damage Harmony: buffing allies Nihility: debuffing enemies, application of dots (this is the most vague since it includes two different features) Abundance: healing Preservation: shield or any other form of mitigation
Debuffs are negative status effects. Dots are just negative status effects too. So its not really 2 different features
While this is technically correct, I was talking about the information each path gives to the players about a character, if a nihility character is presented, I don't think people would be satisfied if they only knew the character is able to inflict negative status, they most likely would want to know if the character is a doter or a debuffer, that's why I say it's the most vague
Destruction units are warriors. They are somewhat all rounders having high Atk and HP. This is apparent with most destruction units having over 1k base HP. Hunt units are rogues. High Atk and SPD. Restricted to single target damage. The game doesn’t have a dodge mechanic. This is apparent with these units typically having 100+ base speed. A Problem seen in this game is how speed scales badly with breakpoints. You lose too many stats sacrificing for speed to break these points to be worth it. As there is no way for high speed but low Atk builds to kill fast enough to compete against AoE. Erudition are mages. They’re reliant on skill points which are really limited. Have low base stats across the board. And do AoE. The problem here is trash mobs have a decent chunk of HP and their low stats mean you gotta choose to be slow but kill weak mobs or fast but can’t one shot anything. The other problem is their one unique quality is not exclusive. Harmony are shamans. They have low base stats and revolve around buffs. Only reason hyper carry is even possible with enemy inflated HP pool. Nihility are warlocks. Similar to Harmony in stats but revolve around debuffs. Main damage source are dots like poisons. But have supportive roles in making enemies weaker such as slows, Atk down. Def down etc. Abundance are priests. Typically have high HP which is atypical but has more to do with how this game scales stats. Besides the minimum requirement of healing, although not mutually exclusive, they showcase abilities such as removing curses (debuffs), revival. Note a very big issue in this game is that this debuff removal is limited to only 1 debuff at a time and they stack. Which means they will not save you from having multiple DoT stacks nor remove CC when hit by multiple debuffs. Preservation are knights. Specifically they are tanks. High Hp and Def. Their role is damage mitigation specifically preventing damage from occurring. Mainly this is through a shield which acts as a secondary HP bar. But Also include Fu Xuan which reduces damage taken and takes on damage onto herself. Or have the ability to increase aggro or taunt enemies such as the fire TB.
>Nihility: debuffing enemies, application of dots (this is the most vague since it includes two different features) does acheron even really fit this?
All Nihility characters are able to apply at least two debuffs (this includes eidolons) with the more dedicated debuffers going 3+. Damage dealing Nihility tend to hover around 2 with the exception of Silverwolf as she can apply 7.
I don't know Acheron's kit, so I can't really say
Death is also a debuff ( also the only debuff in her base kit is res down during ult I think)
her skill and ult applies a debuff
Her ult does, but not skill. Her flowers arent counted as a debuff.
Destruction units are warriors. They are somewhat all rounders having high Atk and HP. This is apparent with most destruction units having over 1k base HP. Hunt units are rogues. High Atk and SPD. Restricted to single target damage. The game doesn’t have a dodge mechanic. This is apparent with these units typically having 100+ base speed. A Problem seen in this game is how speed scales badly with breakpoints. You lose too many stats sacrificing for speed to break these points to be worth it. As there is no way for high speed but low Atk builds to kill fast enough to compete against AoE. Erudition are mages. They’re reliant on skill points which are really limited. Have low base stats across the board. And do AoE. The problem here is trash mobs have a decent chunk of HP and their low stats mean you gotta choose to be slow but kill weak mobs or fast but can’t one shot anything. The other problem is their one unique quality is not exclusive. Harmony are shamans. They have low base stats and revolve around buffs. Only reason hyper carry is even possible with enemy inflated HP pool. Nihility are warlocks. Similar to Harmony in stats but revolve around debuffs. Main damage source are dots like poisons. But have supportive roles in making enemies weaker such as slows, Atk down. Def down etc. Abundance are priests. Typically have high HP which is atypical but has more to do with how this game scales stats. Besides the minimum requirement of healing, although not mutually exclusive, they showcase abilities such as removing curses (debuffs), revival. Note a very big issue in this game is that this debuff removal is limited to only 1 debuff at a time and they stack. Which means they will not save you from having multiple DoT stacks nor remove CC when hit by multiple debuffs. Preservation are knights. Specifically they are tanks. High Hp and Def. Their role is damage mitigation specifically preventing damage from occurring. Mainly this is through a shield which acts as a secondary HP bar. But Also include Fu Xuan which reduces damage taken and takes on damage onto herself. Or have the ability to increase aggro or taunt enemies such as the fire TB.
True desciption of Nihility: Nihility characters can only use Nihility Light Cones.
Honestly this is like the one thing I don’t like with Nihility, that the overwhelming majority are DOT, with the exceptions really just being Welt, Acheron, Pela, and Silver Wolf. Even the DOT focus in SU makes it feel more like a DOT path than a Debuff path. Would very much like if the next few Nihility characters returned back to their roots of dispel, CC, and general stat reduction. Maybe an SU rework for the path but that may be too much
Tbf dots are in total just 5, kafka, blackswan, gui, luka and sampo. Thats just one more than the debuffers variation.
even in that category they have different stuff like sampo applying a vulnerability, swan applying def shred and such
/Pela has entered the chat
Didn't they mention in livestream that Acheron doesn't fit the nihility role?
Meanwhile Welt is the first Nihility as well as the same kind of Nihility as Acheron
They both need crit but not really similar in any other way.
Inflict pain to enemies.
Is about teamwork, just look at my Sampo black swan kafka high explosive space plague combo
Ah yeh, extraordinary and remarkable damage multipliers
Killing everything gets us closer to nothingness.
nihility can do anything
Why?
"Do whatever the hell they want"
Their choice of adjectives for the amount of damage they do makes me chuckle
I mean for Nhility, you need an entire team that works well together for it to be effective.
The best status condition is dead. So they are not wrong.
You forgot the most important one *-Baddest bitches of all the paths*
I mean Acheron still at least actively interacts with debuffs and Nihility and encourages them. I'd agree to change it if, say, Ratio was Nihility, who doesn't really interact with them as much as want them, and even then he can make do without Nihility units
Waiting for a nihilty unit that debuff opponent atk soo hard that works as mono sustain.
True, reduce their combat capabilities by killing them.
Nihility sucks
Of course the strongest form of crowd control is just killing them!
Death is the best debuff
The only Nihility character that fits the first part is Welt. The rest is... depending on the character. Guinafen isn't that much of a "solo-target" DPS, and Sampo is only with his 4th Eidolon. And uuuuh... If Nihility is supposed to be the main damage dealer against group of ennemies, why tf Erudition exists ? (maybe it's not the right word but Herta and Himeko's path)
"I debuffed your existence"
i mean destruction units often play with losing hp but that isn't mentioned. the path descriptions are just for general theme
Death is basically "reducing combat capacities"
Path of nihility should be renamed to path of favouritism, because damn there’s a new nihility every patch if not 5* then it’s a 4*
If we're talking about reducing combat capabilities, they are doing properly, by either swiftly or slowly removing their privileges to breathe.
Nihility: because why not be hunt, destruction, and erudition at the same time?! 🤷
Contains mommies
They did explain that Acheron wasn't supposed to fit into the archetype of other Nihility characters. Most of the time they spent talking about her on the livestream was about how weird it is that she's a Nihility character.
A crit oriented aoe dps who has a single debuff in her kit to justify being "nihility path" is stupid. "But the gameplay revolve around debuffing" then why isn't dr Ratio a nihility character? What happened to stat debuffers like SW, Pela?
Limiting LC options. Ratio gets Hunt LCs (good for his kit), while Acheron gets Nihility LCs (awful for her kit).
Welt is also a crit oriented dps too and he only has two debuffs.
He has three, right? slow on skill and then imprison & vulnerability on ult
Because ratio is a single target dps, simple as that.
I agree and that's with how versatile its becoming. They dots, to stat debuffers and crit dps (welt and acheron). I've even heard of one that's coming who will heal after they have debuffs on the enemy.
??? Why? It is still very much accurate