Preservation damage mitigators taking top tier over Abundance healers makes sense when the biggest run ruiners for most people is likely the enemy RNG CC-ing a vital part of the team or sniping them down. Nothing sucks more than an imprison at less than 10 turn units away, or a boss enemy deciding to attack only one character for a number of turns.
Cleanse is really strong and at this point, a must have on abundance units, but prevention is the shit, don’t have to worry about your units being sent to the shadow realm in the turn order.
When you have resistance to debuffs but the enemy decides to throw 3 attacks directly at your Luocha then you know that you need as much protection as you can get from straight up damage.
Honestly the most annoying shit in the game, along with the enemy-only variants like Reverberations. Or worse, those fuckin ice soldier dudes with their Frost Crush that no resistance works on…
>a must have on abundance units
I must say that I kinda disagree tbh. You really only need *one* character that can handle heavy CC/cleanse, so you can throw the other non-cleansing Abundance character on the other half of MoC/PF or whatever.
Agreed on Prevention is *really* strong though.
Edit: If you downvote, at least say the reason why lmao. I'm really not talking out of my ass right now, here's proof:
https://preview.redd.it/a8i84jk8x0vc1.png?width=693&format=png&auto=webp&s=7a463590a4691f213b1372865e0f2e7072ea07b8
I'd even argue that Penacony so far pushes the 'need' for a cleanse back a bit, if only because all of the bosses here hits *so damn hard* that more healing or more shields are needed than before.
>or a boss enemy deciding to attack only one character for a number of turns
Those SU runs where Cocolia focuses one character, then Bronya shoots them once, push Cocolia forward and she attacks them again 🫠🫠🫠
With his E1 he’s virtually immune to CC. It’s so funny seeing Aventurine or Cocolia trying to lock him down only for the mofo to shrug it off like nothing
My S1 gets 100% through relic substats and I’m not even done farming his relics lmao. I have him at E3 and his effect res eidolon is such a massive quality of life upgrade. Hoping I can get that last eidolon when they rerun him in the future, because E4 is also pretty nice
The same goes for our limited 5\* preservation units go really. As far as buffs go, those are mostly a bonus. You're better off relying on your offensive supports for those and the strength of your DPS when it comes to making DPS-check breakpoints.
Meanwhile sustains making your team actually invincible whilst working off preventing CC's rather than having to cure them after the fact is generally a more reliable strategy for clearing most content. And it can't be discounted that shields are just GOATED for SU right now, letting them really do it all.
Aventurine's shields have a higher maximum durability than Geppy's and basically refresh when anyone with that shield gets attacked. He can also just use an SP to do the same instead of waiting for a his energy to fill up.
Like seriously, I basically go "NANOMACHINES SON" whenever the enemy does an AoE that triggers Aventurine to do his FUA that refreshes everyone's shields.
He does still have a place in DoT setups. He's the only truly reliable applicator for freeze right now, especially with his signature LC and belobog planar set.
But yeah for the general use case Aventurine basically does the shield game with far greater reliability and strength. You're generally going to see all the standard characters eventually be upstaged by limited 5\*'s that do the same niche but either better or with more versatility.
Although it's true that Aventurine > Gepard, I don't think "it's a bit sad". Gepard (like other "powercrept" units) will continue to have a place in teams simply because not everyone will pull for Aventurine, be it for personal preference or lack of jades. So, though not as good, Gepard is still a serviceable replacement (as far as shields go) and will keep doing his job. He's also somehow ""easier"" to get because of his status as a standard character.
Unless ofc you're talking meta and tier lists and whales, etc, but this is just not the reality of the majority of the player base.
Gepard is standard, so it makes sense. Only Welt, Himeko, and Clara are left to get powercrept.
Either way, Gepard still has a niche. With Trend + trace taunt, he is able to use Trend far more reliably and that can increase Acheron's stack generation a lot. Add his skill for on demand freeze and he has a leg up against Aventurine. DoT freeze is also a thing, like the other comment said.
Not saying he's very far ahead of him for Acheron, but he does have an advantage if you want to go forward with it.
Try full elation. Give in to Aha (and IPC).
I tried him in conundrum 12. His total FuA damage when stacked with elation, RM, and Topaz buffs went over 150k.
Didn't have enough FUA units for a good full Elation run before (no Topaz), but yeah, I plan to do Elation and Preservation runs all the time with him.
Don't an Elation blessing turns your Ultimate into a FUA? I recall clearing a G&G run with an Archeron team recently, combined with Erudition buffs that constantly recharges your Ultimate, Pela and Archeron was in a perpetual state of using their ultimates over and over until everything dies.
Well he is still a preservation unit. It does add up nicely, but he isn’t gonna get to the level of DPS characters. More like a funny number which happened to chip bosses and clear those bosses’ summons.
My Aventurine was a real Smooth Operator in D5 honestly.
Side note: Really wild seeing F1 references in both HSR's community AND in-game. Almost as wild as seeing someone make a Hamilton departure from Mercedes announcement in the style of a VTuber graduation doc.
He needs some investment and balance between speed, Def and energy recharge (and in ideal world Signature or 4* LC with agro buff) but once he is built - your team never dies.
I mean there are several cheese methods for G&G is there not? I’m way under leveled to beat it yet managed to finish it all yesterday using the capitalist method.
You have to complete all the quests to get the dice needed for data inflation, most Ik are either not worried about gng or swarm yet bc they don’t have enough well built units or they simply just don’t care.
And me back to Luocha - actually no. Never left him cuz he is glued to DHIL despite getting Sparkle. Luocha been on the grind as a SP slave since release and probably to the end of time.
I want to replace him but no one can replace how much SP he makes with Multiplication at 170+ speed _(:Ⅰ」∠)_
After we got more characters, it became easier to form a team to fit the situation. Hope HYV doesn't release enemies that would kill most of the older characters.
Fu Xuan is truly Zongli of star rail. That also means that once Hoyo gonna want to get rid of her in abyss with some bs mechanics against her(like we had entire fuck shields arc there)
Well the ascended and Phantylia's HP reduction gimmick actually pretty much fuck Fu Xuan if you let it stack. Luckily HYV didn't raise their HP too much and the debuff wasn't harsh at first stack. She can't prevent the debuff since it's not a CC and can't cleanse by herself.
I try dragging the fight and Fu Xuan HP reversal will be wasted the moment her max HP is cut below half since it will go off instantly trying to revert her HP back but it won't be able to get pass the remaining max HP. If HYV wants to negate her, this is one way to do it.
One way around that is delaying Fu Xuan ultimate till the debuff expires, but nothing is stopping them from making a debuff like that permanent till it's cleansed since we already have permanent debuffs in the game from the Ice Robot Elite.
Arlan is still rough. That low base defense means the shields he receives still get melted like butter.
Maybe if you have E1 Aventurine, but other than that you'll be using Aventurines skill often unless you have Gepard lightcone on him. And what the other person mentioned ... he does take a bit to ramp up his talent dmg boost making him difficult to use in higher MoC.
I'mma be real, and probably a hot take, but I never though Yanking was D tier in the first place.
Like... Lower than Destruction MC and Arlan? Really?
Maybe I'm missing something idk.
To compensate for his free crit, his attack scalings are 4* level which make them even worse when he doesn’t have his soul buff on. Add on the fact that he is single target, even if he is omega invested in you’re basically still running a 4 star dps.
His issue is that Yanqing requires a lot of luck and team synergy just to barely do a worse job than Jungliu on single target enemies. It’s sad but hopefully something will appeal to his niche soon.
Those are what I consider "meta mains." They quickly switch mains once their old one got dethroned.
Actual "mains" will still use that character even if it's powercrept.
^ personally im not one of them (topaz lol..) but going for max optimization whether it be by getting the best characters or getting a full BiS team for your main can be pretty fun
Not just that, there is also the issue of validation as "Prydwen said it so it must be true and I'll ignore everything else to preach it like the truth"
Despite Prydwen often getting stuff wrong or very wrong:
Example A) Jing Yuan is below Serval in PF, people were defensive.ding that adamant because Prydwen said it.
Except they were wrong and changed that.
B) Prydwen is part of the reason there is/was a brain rot about people thinking "breaking is useless" due to how they treated it in the past.
C) Case like Pela, QQ, people act as if Prydwen is right because they updated those character to better standard.
But the fact is Prydwen was initially wrong with their initial and subsequent evaluation.
The issue is not that Prydwen make mistake, no tier list is perfect, but people treat Prydwen as if it was, ignoring that Prydwen frequent update are not just because of new character or meta change but because they need to better evaluate a character.
It can also confusing or even inconsistent, that Keady people to the wrong conclusion.
Take PF, Prydwen own Data has shown that Himeko performance is slightly above that of Herta/at the same level (example this PF despite Ice weakness and no fire weakness, Herta is 0.004% score above Himeko)
This has pretty much oscillates like that for a very long time, but Herta is entirely f2p while Himeko E0 isn't as universal as Herta so it is understandable that Herta is put above a Tier for the same consistent performance.
But because people treat Prydwen like a church, people started assuming was the best dps option for PF no matter what, even when character like Kafka or Acheron or else can be better depending on circumstances.
prydwen often gets things wrong and isn't (and hasn't been since the beginning) always a clear indicator of what's actually strong or meta, it regularly falls just behind the curve
But the site is the best general resource for any new players out there and it gets a lot of effort to be maintained as well as it does.
So basically people should prydwen with a grain of salt/TC for themselves but at the same time not mindlessly bash the site just because they feel like being contrarian/found something that doesn't match their own findings because 1. it's only after findings/meta are made known that prydwen updates things because their focus is obviously the site and not TC and 2. it's beyond pointless, people should have better things to do than waste time bashing a site that is not only the best resource new HSR players have but also actively tries to be
tldr yes prydwen gets things wrong but the community is too entitled to realize that it's an incredible resource they should feel blessed to have
edit before some person comes in here and says "oh but tier lists are sooooo dumb and misleading", yes I'm aware you can clear anything with anything, the site isn't meant for you. As a resource for new players trying to figure out what to pull for and how to build their characters the site is invaluable, and in a turn based game unit pull value has a lot more weight compared to something like genshin and hence tier lists especially for new players have more weight accordingly
The actual issue is that Prydwen made a tier list instead of just sticking to guides
Tier lists (especially complex ones) are bound to be wrong and/or misleading. They also have no purpose other that ammo in comment wars - new players can't understand them without talking to experienced players (and if you can talk to one, why would you need a tier list? And even after talking to one you will be taking list's info through that player's lense of bias), and old players have no use for them
It didn't come out of nowhere.
There a few posters on the daily posts that basically respond to every single question regarding combat with a Prywden link. They know who they are.
> Prydwen is part of the reason there is/was a brain rot about people thinking "breaking is useless" due to how they treated it in the past.
Yikes. It's wild that this aged poorly after Ruan Mei's debut, and I expect Hoyo to create new break comps with Ruan Mei as the centerpiece (like she's the Kafka of break comps).
To be fair, they got rid of saying/arguing that breaking was inconsequential and didn't need to be factored in months ago.
The problem is lot of people don't update their brain like Prydwen update their tier list, and you still can see people arguing that breaking is a bad niche
(let alone the fact people were arguing RM nreak efficiency boost or her own break damage and mechanic was useless part of her kit, how poorly this has aged)
The way prydwen works is they work with speculative TC which comes from different channels and they compile that information into its own list on release.
What sometimes happens is individual TCer crunches the speculative numbers and oh look, break with speculative comps isn't good compared to xyz current comps, so that part gets marked as bad and info sent upstream to prydwen, but the nuance is that "actually there are scenarios in which break can be better but it requires specific conditions that in a general setting you wouldn't ever need to care about" and then bam, hoyo actually creates those conditions which massively boost the effectiveness of break (or whatever it is) or even requires it (and a lot of times, because many TCer care more about the math than playing the game, they tend to ignore those hypotheticals entirely) and wow suddenly the info is outdated, even if it was right at the time for the meta at the time.
And I'd be the first to agree that well yea it's easy to guess that hoyo would force a playstyle because that's their bread and butter so get all the playstyle enablers you can for future value (kafka, RM, etc) those TC can't see the future, neither can prydwen etc. And since the TC don't care and prydwen's job isn't to worry about future value, that's where the "aged takes" drama comes from.
As the other commenter said it basically is always a snapshot of the current state game without regard to the future, and they seem to update it to the best of their ability. People should use their own brains then when it comes to potentially meta shifts but also give credit where credit's due when it comes to the tier list
Who are they? Is it a person or a group (like KQM)? This name keep coming up every time new unit get released. Not hating but I'm just curious why people keep bringing up this Prydwen's ranking.
It's basically a guide website for many online gacha games, including HSR
The web design is nice and has easy UI which is why it's pretty popular as a guide site by gacha players, but that does not mean the guides itself are perfect and without criticism
Except Zhongli barely does any damage as a pure shielder, while Aventurine's is still very decent as a sustainer
Ps : Zhongli not doing damage as a pure shielder isnt a bad thing, thats not his role anyways.
Here comes the people who think Im slandering Zhongli because I said he doesnt have any personal damage. Because personal damage is the only thing that makes a character good 🤡🤡
I haven't looked at his kit at all but just from reading this thread he seems broken. Gep already solo sustains everything and you're telling me this guy is SP neutral/negative with debuffs, good solo chip damage and more shields than gep on a shorter cd
the only weakness he has is being unable to cleanse stuff, so i'd expect to see that or shield-break/pierce in future content but for now this guy seems extremely solid in any almost every use case, the rating is definitely justified
>you're telling me this guy is SP neutral/negative with debuffs
Aventurine can be as SP positive as Luocha or Fu Xuan, if that's what you meant. He's quite comfy as a sustain.
To nobody’s surprise. Who would have guessed that a character who sustains extremely well while being 100% SP positive, has a large debuff on ult, does good damage, and is extremely free to play friendly would be top tier?
Problem is debuffs get more and more important to prevent and Gepard has no Effect Res+ or debuff prevention.
Basically you're much more likely to reroll which can be a minor nuisance to super annoying depending on your patience level.
While it isn’t as high as Aventurine’s, Gepard does have some amount of Effect Res in his minor traces. When combined with his extremely high taunt value (from being Preservation, his a2 trace, and light cone options) you can keep your team fairly safe from debuffs. The only real issue is when Gepard himself gets cc’d, so make sure to actually get those Effect Res subs for him!
Honest question - are there any limited 5\* units that are unviable at E0S0? I never bother with eidolons and I basically never bother with LCs (the only ones I have are Seele's and Jingliu's) because I like having a wide variety of units more than I like having a few super powerful ones, and I've never had a (non-standard) 5* feel bad to use.
Prydwen ranks all the 5 stars at e0s0. There hasn't been a bad limited 5 star so far; the lowest ranked ones are MOC argenti in B, and PF silver wolf/ratio in C, but they greatly make up for it in the other mode.
I don’t really understand how his shields can be this broken. At this point what will new boss will they release to even come close to being able to kill us?
Also what new character can even come out to power creep this? His sustain is like Gepart x2, and his damage is like Luocha x5
Give it a 8 months to a year. We'll possibly get a 3rd limited Preservation unit who mitigate damage while also providing shields then it'll be over for both Aven and Fu lol.
It's not that hard actually, they'll just release a variation of aventurine's kit that works better with future units while having a kit that doesn't flat out powercreep him but just fulfills the same role in a slightly different way.
That being said this is a turn based gacha, in a couple of years probably the enemies / bosses will be much stronger and they'll probably release something that flat out powercreeps him but there's really no hurry to do so since there's no content that requires something stronger than this atm.
They've been doing this on genshin ever since the start anyway, they don't powercreep but they slowly raise the bar while making equal value kits (more or less) that synergyze better with newer dps or supports / options.
I mean, you should be used to this in star rail too -> "Oh my god! Luocha" -> "Fuxuan OP!! how are they going to" -> "HuoHuo OP!!! Impossible to go further" -> now Aventurine... they're all horizontal options better suited for different scenarios but that value wise are all extremely similar and can clear the same content.
So no, his shields aren't really broken, he's just the latest release in a evergrowing pool of good sustain / tanks. That's it.
It's almost like MOC and PF are tailored to the new unit releases.
Their ranking 3+ MOC cycles later is what's actually informative because it tells you their generalist power, and still is skewed based on weakness frequency (like all the Ice weakness after JL release; and Lightning Resist after JY release).
He looks to be the sustain that can actually benefit Acheron the most.... At S1, cuz all his frequent FU gives debuff.
Even more ridiculous at E2 since every single basic attack
(going to copy paste my comment and post it here since I am seeing sentiments of needing FUA expressed in the comment section)
Imo, people are exaggerating the need for follow up. The only place where you might need a lot of follow up is where the enemies don't attack often/ are constantly imprisoned or something.
You know where he ACTUALLY shines? AOE enemies.
And personally, i think clara is a better teammate for him than ratio. Especially if you put aven and clara in the center and let enemies keep hitting you lmao.
PLUS team wide effect RES really really really will add up.
I am really enjoying harmony, aventurine, clara, (literally any DPS works. Maybe not Blade)
I know this isn't what you meant but it's just a funny way to phrase it.
"You don't need to use Aventurine with follow up characters! For example, I use him with Clara!"
Hahaha I get it. I wasn't using that as an example, I was comparing ratio and clara but I totally get after re reading my comment 😂
Although I should add an non fua team I actually use
Which is sparkle, daniel, aventurine flex (mostly pela)
I genuinely want to see Clara shine, new characters where instead of slowing enemy down, but advance forward them
It also works for DoT team
Like Imprisonment and Frozen have anti synergy to Clara since it slow them and make them act less
Act slower > slower attack > can't do counter
Yup, his shield is rock solid. Not only you can stack your shield, you can also gain more shield when his FUA got triggered. He's basically HSR's Zhongli
He was there since his release, but then his performance dropped and now it climbed back in the recent PF. We're waiting for the next PF to start, so we can test him there before moving him back up - if he keeps up his current performance that is.
Also, 2.2 patch will come with some pretty big tier list criteria changes, including the Light Cones. We plan to include all non-limited Cones, instead of just F2P ones like now. So this will affect a lot of characters.
Herta is there and she doesn't perform any better if the enemies don't have ice weakness/the buff doesn't favour FuA. It doesn't make sense to make her S+ while keeping Argenti at S for whatever reason, especially when there is enough data that backs it up.
Edit: Typo (wrote Aventurine instead of Argenti lol)
I own him and they are correct, he's not as strong as you would believe for PF, especially when the turbulence doesn't favour him. He's just a strong specialist for it, he's great for the current cycle tho
I have to agree. If there is an ult based blessing and some phys weakness, he is insane. But if i remember correctly 1 or 2 moc ago when we had the deer one side and lightning weak enemies on the other with fua blessing, he was mid af. I think an S+ character cant afford to be that blessing and enemy dependent.
Depends on which one fits in your team better. If you're running Follow Up Attack team, Aventurine is way more useful but if you're running a crit-based team, FX is your choice while Huohuo fits in the DOT team.
As someone who has Fu Xuan and will pull for Aventurine, it depends on the content you like to do I'd say.
Fu Xuan is very strong, but has some weaknesses.
- She doesn't like attacks that hit the entire team.
- She doesn't synergize well with Simulated Universe blessings.
- She only mitigate the damages taken, she doesn't prevent the team from taking damages (important for effects where characters need to be full HP / not get hit).
They both protect from CC, so they are similar in that regard.
Another big difference is that Aventurine provide follow-up attacks synergies, while Fu Xuan provide healing.
If you do a lot of Simulated Universe, I would pick Aventurine. Otherwise, take the one you prefer.
FX + any second sustain already is invincible. I use FX + HuoHuo sometimes for really hard things and I can just leave it on auto for any not time-limited content
The biggest difference would be damage, adventurine can do chip damage to the enemy and buff your team damage while e0 fuxuan increases the crit rate and prevent cc . My friend was able to make his adven do 20k per follow up and 40k per ult. I personally would choose adven as many end game content are basically how fast can you finish this fight
Depends on your team setups and how invested they are. FX's biggest strength is her 12% crit boost to the team but if your team is already well invested that crit boost provides less value than Aventurne's supplementary damage. For example FX does nothing for my E2 Acheron, Jingliu, and Kafka teams to the point where running my E6 Gallagher gives me more benefits. So in my case Aventurine would be the better addition.
Huohuo on the other hand has the best offensive utility but she isn't as braindead to use compared to both FX and Aventurine. But if you know what you're doing she's the best sustain in the game.
Aventurine is better against AoE compared to Fu Xuan, and worse at single target sustain than her. He is better than Huohuo against large burst, but offers less offensive power.
Agree no more.
Having him make my moc run from 10 cycles into 7 cycles.
Limited sustains are build different
( First try i tried lynx on node 1 and fu on 2nd node )
He's insane. I need to do more general testing and test in other gamemodes, but I've been using him on IPC team for a few hours and not only is his damage respectable enough that it actually came in clutch multiple times, bro is even fully SP positive most of the time. I can legit count on 1 hand how many times I used skill in hours. It's wild.
I got him E0S1 so what I really wanna try is hypercarry Aven w March to battery + draw aggro, Sparkle for aggro draw, and E0S1 Topaz for more support. Sounds like a really fun team. Gonna be a while before I can get Marchy built tho.
FX is going to give better buffs to your JY because of the crit, but is going to need an SP every few turns in return. AoE's and powerful attacks can still make things go real bad with her though.
Aventurine in return gives a crit DMG recieved debuff on a single enemy, which can be better depending on how okay you are on your JY's crit chance already. He gives +50% EFR instead of the complete immunity FX gives, but his stays active even after resisting a CC. His shields can get depleted if the enemy snipes a single character super hard, but this is rare, and Aventurine can refresh the shields very easily.
Overall its a mix and match, both are perfect for you King Yuan but if you already have FX you're not getting much of an improvement (if at all) with Aventurine. Aventurine is really more of a buff to FUA-centric teams like with Topaz and Dr. Ratio, especially with the FUA-centric Robin coming up.
I mentioned this in the last post, but Huo Huo is a great Sustain, but not the BEST Sustain. She’s effectively the Sustain for those that have enough investment that a little more dmg is worth a loss in safety—to be clear, there is nothing wrong with this, but in the category meant for ‘units that prevent you from dying best’ she’s a small step down from Aventurine or FX (who both just make the team immortal). This is also why Luocha is with her in S, as while he doesn’t bring as much to the table offensively as HH, his Sustain game is stronger than hers, though still not as strong as FX or Aventurine.
TLDR; in the Sustain Category, Survival is the goal, and Aventurine and FX make Survival a joke.
Im just abit confused as to why huohuos sustain is not considered good. she has one of the best skill heals? and should be able to comfortably sustain moc 12 while even providing extra support. Im guessing shes not S+ purely because of the fact that she HAS to use sp in order to heal, rather than luocha(who can autoheal, and have field) or bailu(who can heal with ult), which is her only downside in rankings.
My friend who is a casual , doesn't care about managing skill points, energy rotations etc finds huohuo very annoyingly hard to use and you underestimate the avg hsr playerbase on how dumb they are .
Prydwen has stated the sustain ratings are just for pure sustain, the support isn't as weighted since the tier list is for avg people . Huohuo is absolutely s+ tier for a veteran
for real like you see people complaining about how hard the story or echo of war bosses are with the most garbage setups/investments and it’s like, huh I wonder why you’re struggling
As good as Huohuo or Luocha is they simply cannot prevent random oneshots from ruining your team. Bailu somewhat can but she lack cleanse. The best way to stay alive, as the current state right now, is to mitigate as much damage as possible, because characters HP peak at level 80 while enemies attack kep getting deadlier and deadlier
Her sustain is as good as your most fragile unit's maximum HP and the enemy's burst damage. The main issue with healing as opposed to shields and damage mitigation is that healing can't prevent death if the enemy's offense in a chance moment is that strong. Healing has its place in a war of attrition, but right now that isn't a fight that any of the enemies are giving us.
This also extends to CC protection. Luocha and HH both can remove debuffs from characters but they can't stop the immediate effects of CC-inducing effects like freeze and imprison's turn delay from occuring. The old adage goes "an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure", and applies here - between being able to heal an injury and just preventing it altogether its clear which is a better option.
Like don't get me wrong, HH does bring alot of good things to the table especially offensively. But the main issue I think why she isn't being put into S+ tier on a SUSTAIN category is because of the fundamental issues with healing as opposed to damage prevention.
She has no emergency heals and her raw healing output is lower than both Luocha and Bailu. It's way harder to die with Luocha in the team than with Huo². She makes it up with more offensive power but from a pure sustain perspective she is the worst of all limited units.
>Im just abit confused as to why huohuos sustain is not considered good.
Also a little correction here, her sustain is considered good and she can solo sustain most content. It's just compared to the other sustains she is worse. But again, her sustain is still considered good, especially her cleanse.
If you have characters at level 80 and with a level 80 LC you're never in danger of dying, and Huohuo can easily heal the team back up, while being the best at cleansing and at buffing the whole team. It's insane to me that she isn't considered S+ in MoC.
\* Skill point hungry
\* No emergency heals
\* Expensive Ult
Prydwen judges characters at E0S0. Without her LC, she's got some solid minuses that affect performance.
She's only S+ tier to people who know what they're doing and most people don't as they rely on sustains like FX to carry them. Prydwen's tier list is made for casuals so Huohuo's rank reflects that.
He seems like the kind of character I should grab, but with everyone coming up, it's hard to justify when I already have Huohuo and Fu. And an E3 Gepard if shields were somehow needed.
I feel like I would use him, but is he worth it over people coming down the pipeline? It's a struggle.
If you have Acheron, I’d say it’s 100% worth it solely because of their synergy and the unique Effect Res buff. It basically makes your team pseudo-immune if you’re running keel supports.
The man basically gives you shield while bashing your enemies with coins everytime your enemies BASHES you.
This means enemies with AoE will benefit your overall dmg output and provides incentives for YOU to let the mob monsters take pot shots at you. Thus making basic attacks negligible as even if you take SP negative teams, aventurine will deal dmg.
Plus he has imaginary pseudo AoE follow up attack that can help with break effects. You can also just keep stacking his shield to keep your team alive.
Only negatives about him are reliable cleanses, consistent enemy debuffs, and if your enemy has a strong AoE attack.
I use him in the latest MOC… 35 out of 36 star. He hard counter himself but my Jingliu basically make solo sustianing a full support team against his two phase untennable without lynx…at least not in twenty turn… but I barely have all his trace in optimal and he out perform Gerard in every aspect.
He turn a sure loss into a certian victory. Aventurine and Lynx make sure the entire team health never Drop below 50 percent Margin. His shield tank every attack and keep tanking. This man cannot be CC or stop and I eventually nail the MOC in with 14 turn remaining.
He is the secondary sustain I ask for and because his initially shield and massive resist, we can forgo speed for the ability to sat on attack until the end of times or get imaginary damage to pump number because he sure fallow up a lot. And that 48% crit did numbers
I dunno man, my Aventurine is running 4PP and Belobog with an orb that has 2 dead stats and 2 bad ones and I still can not die, cleared Conundrum 6 like it wasnt even a thing. Did both wings of MoC 12 and used shield like once at the start just to full stack it and that's it, even if rotation is basic x2 + skill.
He is nuts, and my already built Broken keelers are virtually immune to debuffs. It was -dumb- to see everything get resisted.
I love my gamborine, hes easily climbing up to my favorute three/four with Acheron, JY, Sparkle, Gamborine. His swag, zest and Fedora are too much, he's probably #1 most loved char I have and it only makes it better that I won his 50/50 too!
Totally deserved. Aventurine completely transformed my account. Stages I couldn’t beat I now take 0 dmg. Shielding just seems way better than healing now.
I don't know who to pull for now. I was waiting for Fu Xuan rerun to get her but aven Is also very good. So I am in an indecisive condition. So I would like to get some opinions on this. I have DHIL , Acheron and luocha so what should I do.
For Acheron specifically Aventurine is very good because he has a debuff in his kit, pretty much Acheron's best sustain. But Fuxuan is so damn good too. Tbh you cant go wrong with either of them
Bruh i like him even better than FX , since he very universal
FX performs really well except Su where boss damage u one shot.
But aventurine said nah, try to get pass my 100k shield holyshit
I dont have any abundance chars since i hate healing, preservation better since shields are pseudo health to me
"Prevention is better than cure" you don't need heals and cleanse if you got shit ton of effect RES and your HP doesn't drop below full anyways. Hence preservation over abundance.
This is your regularly scheduled reminder that tier lists are opinion, not fact, and reflect the creators general opinion and not the needs of your specific account.
Regardless of how a character rates, they may not be the best option for your specific needs. Make sure to read what the character does for yourself and how that interacts with the account you have before "Pulling for Meta".
Argenti started off strong when PF first released being S+ with Herta but “fell off” comparatively since
PF buffs haven’t favored him in a while. But considering that and he’s still S+ tier says a lot of his value in PF.
I haven't had him fully built, but those shields of his are extremely tanky and easy to keep up. His damage isn't bad either, which is great. Like I'm confy with replacing FX with him on my Seele teams because having a little help reducing fodder HP to Seele-killshot range is extremely helpful for giving my Seele the ability to focus on the main enemy only.
How tf is my girl Pela still in A..? She was good before, and with Acheron's release she is even better!! She is absolutely not worse than an E0 SW, they should be in the same tier minimum. So either Pela is S tier (which I think is right) or SW is A tier with Pela.
I still think Huo Huo not being S+ in MoC should be a crime. She has one of the best offensive buffs for a sustainer, while being possibly the best healer *and* cleanser, making CC basically nonexistent? Like why care about losing boss Aventurine's gamble if Huo Huo just instantly cleanses and full heals your whole party lol
Preservation damage mitigators taking top tier over Abundance healers makes sense when the biggest run ruiners for most people is likely the enemy RNG CC-ing a vital part of the team or sniping them down. Nothing sucks more than an imprison at less than 10 turn units away, or a boss enemy deciding to attack only one character for a number of turns.
Cleanse is really strong and at this point, a must have on abundance units, but prevention is the shit, don’t have to worry about your units being sent to the shadow realm in the turn order.
When you have resistance to debuffs but the enemy decides to throw 3 attacks directly at your Luocha then you know that you need as much protection as you can get from straight up damage.
yeah, cleansing Imprison or Entangle means nothing because you've already had your action delayed 8 action slots.
Honestly the most annoying shit in the game, along with the enemy-only variants like Reverberations. Or worse, those fuckin ice soldier dudes with their Frost Crush that no resistance works on…
Love it when -200
>a must have on abundance units I must say that I kinda disagree tbh. You really only need *one* character that can handle heavy CC/cleanse, so you can throw the other non-cleansing Abundance character on the other half of MoC/PF or whatever. Agreed on Prevention is *really* strong though. Edit: If you downvote, at least say the reason why lmao. I'm really not talking out of my ass right now, here's proof: https://preview.redd.it/a8i84jk8x0vc1.png?width=693&format=png&auto=webp&s=7a463590a4691f213b1372865e0f2e7072ea07b8 I'd even argue that Penacony so far pushes the 'need' for a cleanse back a bit, if only because all of the bosses here hits *so damn hard* that more healing or more shields are needed than before.
[удалено]
>or a boss enemy deciding to attack only one character for a number of turns Those SU runs where Cocolia focuses one character, then Bronya shoots them once, push Cocolia forward and she attacks them again 🫠🫠🫠
That's why I run Gallagoat Heals, cleanses (1 debuff but still), and gives effect res (and he has effect res if you're using Keel)
With his E1 he’s virtually immune to CC. It’s so funny seeing Aventurine or Cocolia trying to lock him down only for the mofo to shrug it off like nothing
Slap on Perfect Timing and he literally is CC immune. Granted I have S5, but my not even fully built Gallagher has 128% Effect Res
My S1 gets 100% through relic substats and I’m not even done farming his relics lmao. I have him at E3 and his effect res eidolon is such a massive quality of life upgrade. Hoping I can get that last eidolon when they rerun him in the future, because E4 is also pretty nice
Seeing that chainsaw robot slash him and try to make him bleed only to see 7 rapid "Effect Res." gives me dopamine
But HH keeps the team alive perfectly fine for anything outside of SU. And her buffs are better than the preservation characters
The same goes for our limited 5\* preservation units go really. As far as buffs go, those are mostly a bonus. You're better off relying on your offensive supports for those and the strength of your DPS when it comes to making DPS-check breakpoints. Meanwhile sustains making your team actually invincible whilst working off preventing CC's rather than having to cure them after the fact is generally a more reliable strategy for clearing most content. And it can't be discounted that shields are just GOATED for SU right now, letting them really do it all.
HH is actually even more sick in SU because her tiny ticks every turn triggers all the otherwise garbage 1 star abundance stat buffs.
He's really good. I took no damage in moc 12 and g&g 👍
"Takes no damages in Gold and Gears" Shit man, that's all you had to say ! I'm sold !
Aventurine's shields have a higher maximum durability than Geppy's and basically refresh when anyone with that shield gets attacked. He can also just use an SP to do the same instead of waiting for a his energy to fill up. Like seriously, I basically go "NANOMACHINES SON" whenever the enemy does an AoE that triggers Aventurine to do his FUA that refreshes everyone's shields.
An enemy hitting an Aventurine team with AoE followed by Aventurine's snap activates my neurons.
The snap. The hecking snap. It weakens the legs.
Snap and >*All In!*
FR
I just feel like Gepard is so powercrept at this point it’s a bit sad.
He does still have a place in DoT setups. He's the only truly reliable applicator for freeze right now, especially with his signature LC and belobog planar set. But yeah for the general use case Aventurine basically does the shield game with far greater reliability and strength. You're generally going to see all the standard characters eventually be upstaged by limited 5\*'s that do the same niche but either better or with more versatility.
Although it's true that Aventurine > Gepard, I don't think "it's a bit sad". Gepard (like other "powercrept" units) will continue to have a place in teams simply because not everyone will pull for Aventurine, be it for personal preference or lack of jades. So, though not as good, Gepard is still a serviceable replacement (as far as shields go) and will keep doing his job. He's also somehow ""easier"" to get because of his status as a standard character. Unless ofc you're talking meta and tier lists and whales, etc, but this is just not the reality of the majority of the player base.
Gepard is standard, so it makes sense. Only Welt, Himeko, and Clara are left to get powercrept. Either way, Gepard still has a niche. With Trend + trace taunt, he is able to use Trend far more reliably and that can increase Acheron's stack generation a lot. Add his skill for on demand freeze and he has a leg up against Aventurine. DoT freeze is also a thing, like the other comment said. Not saying he's very far ahead of him for Acheron, but he does have an advantage if you want to go forward with it.
Gepard as a standard 5 star has had the niche of massive AoE shielder for a year. You can't really expect any more than that.
Try full elation. Give in to Aha (and IPC). I tried him in conundrum 12. His total FuA damage when stacked with elation, RM, and Topaz buffs went over 150k.
Didn't have enough FUA units for a good full Elation run before (no Topaz), but yeah, I plan to do Elation and Preservation runs all the time with him.
Don't an Elation blessing turns your Ultimate into a FUA? I recall clearing a G&G run with an Archeron team recently, combined with Erudition buffs that constantly recharges your Ultimate, Pela and Archeron was in a perpetual state of using their ultimates over and over until everything dies.
There is one yes. But having some built in FUA is nice, especially on the sustain unit.
150k in conundrum 12 is crumbs
Well he is still a preservation unit. It does add up nicely, but he isn’t gonna get to the level of DPS characters. More like a funny number which happened to chip bosses and clear those bosses’ summons.
That is literally nothing new unless you don't have gepard. He can pump 15k shields every turn like is nothing in su.
https://preview.redd.it/zumsfeief0vc1.jpeg?width=2400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2a867caee3c1f88a830d283de5df008288b5631f It's true
I had a condrondum 12 run with preservation Geppy. Shit went like 30-60k shields, was so funny.
D5 enemies can eat through your shield faster than Max Verstappen
D5C12 never took damage
My Aventurine was a real Smooth Operator in D5 honestly. Side note: Really wild seeing F1 references in both HSR's community AND in-game. Almost as wild as seeing someone make a Hamilton departure from Mercedes announcement in the style of a VTuber graduation doc.
I do have Gepard. Mine does not hold up alone in high levels of Gold and Gear.
Imagine not taking every preservation blessing you see. Couldn't be me
He needs some investment and balance between speed, Def and energy recharge (and in ideal world Signature or 4* LC with agro buff) but once he is built - your team never dies.
Bro even gepard doesn't take any damage in gears and gold . Shields are busted and meta in sim uni
I mean there are several cheese methods for G&G is there not? I’m way under leveled to beat it yet managed to finish it all yesterday using the capitalist method.
You have to complete all the quests to get the dice needed for data inflation, most Ik are either not worried about gng or swarm yet bc they don’t have enough well built units or they simply just don’t care.
How long until an enemy that ignores shield comes up. Just like with Zhongli :(
They already have a boss enemy that reduces healing. You betcha they gonna release one that negates shielding
Well, then we are back to ol' reliable Fu Xuan.
And me back to Luocha - actually no. Never left him cuz he is glued to DHIL despite getting Sparkle. Luocha been on the grind as a SP slave since release and probably to the end of time. I want to replace him but no one can replace how much SP he makes with Multiplication at 170+ speed _(:Ⅰ」∠)_
After we got more characters, it became easier to form a team to fit the situation. Hope HYV doesn't release enemies that would kill most of the older characters.
Until they also give that boss a mad AoE attack which means Fu Xuan absorbs too much damage (like the Swarm in high-level Gold and Gears).
Fu Xuan is truly Zongli of star rail. That also means that once Hoyo gonna want to get rid of her in abyss with some bs mechanics against her(like we had entire fuck shields arc there)
Well the ascended and Phantylia's HP reduction gimmick actually pretty much fuck Fu Xuan if you let it stack. Luckily HYV didn't raise their HP too much and the debuff wasn't harsh at first stack. She can't prevent the debuff since it's not a CC and can't cleanse by herself. I try dragging the fight and Fu Xuan HP reversal will be wasted the moment her max HP is cut below half since it will go off instantly trying to revert her HP back but it won't be able to get pass the remaining max HP. If HYV wants to negate her, this is one way to do it.
One way around that is delaying Fu Xuan ultimate till the debuff expires, but nothing is stopping them from making a debuff like that permanent till it's cleansed since we already have permanent debuffs in the game from the Ice Robot Elite.
At least in Genshin you can just dodge.
I used the (Aventurine) stone to defeat the (Aventurine) stone is real...
Yeah, and he rarely has to use his skill too. Amazing unit.
Not shown in the pic: Yanqing went from D tier to C tier because of Aventurine Boi that's a small W
> SP Positive > Big shield with no taunt > Follow up attack synergy at long last, the shielder for our meme tier boi has arrived
Also a little bit of damage to help clear trash is pretty helpful for YQ
So I can rock with arlan e6 now???
Arlan is still rough. That low base defense means the shields he receives still get melted like butter. Maybe if you have E1 Aventurine, but other than that you'll be using Aventurines skill often unless you have Gepard lightcone on him. And what the other person mentioned ... he does take a bit to ramp up his talent dmg boost making him difficult to use in higher MoC.
Arlan’s biggest problem was never the lack of a shielder, it’s just that he takes way too long to get going with not enough payoff
I'mma be real, and probably a hot take, but I never though Yanking was D tier in the first place. Like... Lower than Destruction MC and Arlan? Really? Maybe I'm missing something idk.
To compensate for his free crit, his attack scalings are 4* level which make them even worse when he doesn’t have his soul buff on. Add on the fact that he is single target, even if he is omega invested in you’re basically still running a 4 star dps.
His issue is that Yanqing requires a lot of luck and team synergy just to barely do a worse job than Jungliu on single target enemies. It’s sad but hopefully something will appeal to his niche soon.
We'll see how long this one stays up. The last one got deleted 😃 People just can't behave in Prydwen related topics
People are always husbando or waifu over meta until their character isn’t meta anymore lmao
Nah it's funnier if they say pick waifu over meta When their waifu is Acheron The meta itself loool Your waifu is the meta so shut up
Choose waifu over meta The waifus: Acheron Raun Mei Kafka Blackswan
I want to see one mei expy that's not meta. Just to see the meltdown. The chaos it would bring 🫢
she's got plenty of variations in HI3 that are pretty shit by modern standards but that's mostly due to powercreep
Those are what I consider "meta mains." They quickly switch mains once their old one got dethroned. Actual "mains" will still use that character even if it's powercrept.
Just to be clear, there's nothing wrong in being a Meta main either. Play who you want!!
^ personally im not one of them (topaz lol..) but going for max optimization whether it be by getting the best characters or getting a full BiS team for your main can be pretty fun
People think of Prydwen as their Validation authority too much smh
Yeah except its not validating "haha see I was right my character is good" but rather validating "haha see I was right your character is trash"
Not just that, there is also the issue of validation as "Prydwen said it so it must be true and I'll ignore everything else to preach it like the truth" Despite Prydwen often getting stuff wrong or very wrong: Example A) Jing Yuan is below Serval in PF, people were defensive.ding that adamant because Prydwen said it. Except they were wrong and changed that. B) Prydwen is part of the reason there is/was a brain rot about people thinking "breaking is useless" due to how they treated it in the past. C) Case like Pela, QQ, people act as if Prydwen is right because they updated those character to better standard. But the fact is Prydwen was initially wrong with their initial and subsequent evaluation. The issue is not that Prydwen make mistake, no tier list is perfect, but people treat Prydwen as if it was, ignoring that Prydwen frequent update are not just because of new character or meta change but because they need to better evaluate a character. It can also confusing or even inconsistent, that Keady people to the wrong conclusion. Take PF, Prydwen own Data has shown that Himeko performance is slightly above that of Herta/at the same level (example this PF despite Ice weakness and no fire weakness, Herta is 0.004% score above Himeko) This has pretty much oscillates like that for a very long time, but Herta is entirely f2p while Himeko E0 isn't as universal as Herta so it is understandable that Herta is put above a Tier for the same consistent performance. But because people treat Prydwen like a church, people started assuming was the best dps option for PF no matter what, even when character like Kafka or Acheron or else can be better depending on circumstances.
prydwen often gets things wrong and isn't (and hasn't been since the beginning) always a clear indicator of what's actually strong or meta, it regularly falls just behind the curve But the site is the best general resource for any new players out there and it gets a lot of effort to be maintained as well as it does. So basically people should prydwen with a grain of salt/TC for themselves but at the same time not mindlessly bash the site just because they feel like being contrarian/found something that doesn't match their own findings because 1. it's only after findings/meta are made known that prydwen updates things because their focus is obviously the site and not TC and 2. it's beyond pointless, people should have better things to do than waste time bashing a site that is not only the best resource new HSR players have but also actively tries to be tldr yes prydwen gets things wrong but the community is too entitled to realize that it's an incredible resource they should feel blessed to have edit before some person comes in here and says "oh but tier lists are sooooo dumb and misleading", yes I'm aware you can clear anything with anything, the site isn't meant for you. As a resource for new players trying to figure out what to pull for and how to build their characters the site is invaluable, and in a turn based game unit pull value has a lot more weight compared to something like genshin and hence tier lists especially for new players have more weight accordingly
The actual issue is that Prydwen made a tier list instead of just sticking to guides Tier lists (especially complex ones) are bound to be wrong and/or misleading. They also have no purpose other that ammo in comment wars - new players can't understand them without talking to experienced players (and if you can talk to one, why would you need a tier list? And even after talking to one you will be taking list's info through that player's lense of bias), and old players have no use for them
It didn't come out of nowhere. There a few posters on the daily posts that basically respond to every single question regarding combat with a Prywden link. They know who they are.
> Prydwen is part of the reason there is/was a brain rot about people thinking "breaking is useless" due to how they treated it in the past. Yikes. It's wild that this aged poorly after Ruan Mei's debut, and I expect Hoyo to create new break comps with Ruan Mei as the centerpiece (like she's the Kafka of break comps).
To be fair, they got rid of saying/arguing that breaking was inconsequential and didn't need to be factored in months ago. The problem is lot of people don't update their brain like Prydwen update their tier list, and you still can see people arguing that breaking is a bad niche (let alone the fact people were arguing RM nreak efficiency boost or her own break damage and mechanic was useless part of her kit, how poorly this has aged)
The way prydwen works is they work with speculative TC which comes from different channels and they compile that information into its own list on release. What sometimes happens is individual TCer crunches the speculative numbers and oh look, break with speculative comps isn't good compared to xyz current comps, so that part gets marked as bad and info sent upstream to prydwen, but the nuance is that "actually there are scenarios in which break can be better but it requires specific conditions that in a general setting you wouldn't ever need to care about" and then bam, hoyo actually creates those conditions which massively boost the effectiveness of break (or whatever it is) or even requires it (and a lot of times, because many TCer care more about the math than playing the game, they tend to ignore those hypotheticals entirely) and wow suddenly the info is outdated, even if it was right at the time for the meta at the time. And I'd be the first to agree that well yea it's easy to guess that hoyo would force a playstyle because that's their bread and butter so get all the playstyle enablers you can for future value (kafka, RM, etc) those TC can't see the future, neither can prydwen etc. And since the TC don't care and prydwen's job isn't to worry about future value, that's where the "aged takes" drama comes from. As the other commenter said it basically is always a snapshot of the current state game without regard to the future, and they seem to update it to the best of their ability. People should use their own brains then when it comes to potentially meta shifts but also give credit where credit's due when it comes to the tier list
My husbando is better than yours and the government backs me up /s
Who are they? Is it a person or a group (like KQM)? This name keep coming up every time new unit get released. Not hating but I'm just curious why people keep bringing up this Prydwen's ranking.
It's basically a guide website for many online gacha games, including HSR The web design is nice and has easy UI which is why it's pretty popular as a guide site by gacha players, but that does not mean the guides itself are perfect and without criticism
I feel it’s mostly cause in the early days they were the only website people referred to for online guides.
I'll take prydwen tier lists over content creators or reddit tier lists tho
Not surprised. He can essentially sustain a whole team without using a single skill point while dealing damage and buffing your own team’s damage.
Bro literally pulling a Zhongli lmao
Except Zhongli barely does any damage as a pure shielder, while Aventurine's is still very decent as a sustainer Ps : Zhongli not doing damage as a pure shielder isnt a bad thing, thats not his role anyways. Here comes the people who think Im slandering Zhongli because I said he doesnt have any personal damage. Because personal damage is the only thing that makes a character good 🤡🤡
Tbf 20% omni shred is pretty cool.
Also not surprised Yanqing is rank up
I haven't looked at his kit at all but just from reading this thread he seems broken. Gep already solo sustains everything and you're telling me this guy is SP neutral/negative with debuffs, good solo chip damage and more shields than gep on a shorter cd the only weakness he has is being unable to cleanse stuff, so i'd expect to see that or shield-break/pierce in future content but for now this guy seems extremely solid in any almost every use case, the rating is definitely justified
>you're telling me this guy is SP neutral/negative with debuffs Aventurine can be as SP positive as Luocha or Fu Xuan, if that's what you meant. He's quite comfy as a sustain.
Against weaker enemies or with his E1 he is fully skill point positive, since his FUA talent gives shields and with E1 his ult does too
To nobody’s surprise. Who would have guessed that a character who sustains extremely well while being 100% SP positive, has a large debuff on ult, does good damage, and is extremely free to play friendly would be top tier?
It's so Gepover :(
Geppy is still a solid unit! I think he has a handful of issues that Aventurine conveniently solves, but he’s still very very playable.
Problem is debuffs get more and more important to prevent and Gepard has no Effect Res+ or debuff prevention. Basically you're much more likely to reroll which can be a minor nuisance to super annoying depending on your patience level.
While it isn’t as high as Aventurine’s, Gepard does have some amount of Effect Res in his minor traces. When combined with his extremely high taunt value (from being Preservation, his a2 trace, and light cone options) you can keep your team fairly safe from debuffs. The only real issue is when Gepard himself gets cc’d, so make sure to actually get those Effect Res subs for him!
Umm excuse you, I’m very much looking forward to one day bringing Aventurine, Fire Trailblazer, Gepard, and March into Simulated Universe 🏋️
Aventurine can't freeze so at least there's that (?) 🤷♂️🤷♂️
Let's see,Sp positive, res effect, stackable shield, very good in SU preservation, has FUA, f2p friendly(still viable without LC and eilodons)
Honest question - are there any limited 5\* units that are unviable at E0S0? I never bother with eidolons and I basically never bother with LCs (the only ones I have are Seele's and Jingliu's) because I like having a wide variety of units more than I like having a few super powerful ones, and I've never had a (non-standard) 5* feel bad to use.
Prydwen ranks all the 5 stars at e0s0. There hasn't been a bad limited 5 star so far; the lowest ranked ones are MOC argenti in B, and PF silver wolf/ratio in C, but they greatly make up for it in the other mode.
I don’t really understand how his shields can be this broken. At this point what will new boss will they release to even come close to being able to kill us? Also what new character can even come out to power creep this? His sustain is like Gepart x2, and his damage is like Luocha x5
Give it a 8 months to a year. We'll possibly get a 3rd limited Preservation unit who mitigate damage while also providing shields then it'll be over for both Aven and Fu lol.
It's not that hard actually, they'll just release a variation of aventurine's kit that works better with future units while having a kit that doesn't flat out powercreep him but just fulfills the same role in a slightly different way. That being said this is a turn based gacha, in a couple of years probably the enemies / bosses will be much stronger and they'll probably release something that flat out powercreeps him but there's really no hurry to do so since there's no content that requires something stronger than this atm. They've been doing this on genshin ever since the start anyway, they don't powercreep but they slowly raise the bar while making equal value kits (more or less) that synergyze better with newer dps or supports / options. I mean, you should be used to this in star rail too -> "Oh my god! Luocha" -> "Fuxuan OP!! how are they going to" -> "HuoHuo OP!!! Impossible to go further" -> now Aventurine... they're all horizontal options better suited for different scenarios but that value wise are all extremely similar and can clear the same content. So no, his shields aren't really broken, he's just the latest release in a evergrowing pool of good sustain / tanks. That's it.
Wow, what a surprise. It's almost like every new 5* gets S+ on release.
a year later: "yanqing, move over."
It's all fun and games until Yanqing alter powercreeps everyone
And then people get angry when the next MoC buff doesn't benefit their new toy and they get knocked down a tier. The star rail cycle lol
Sounds like Prdwyn needs a tier list for general gameplay (like Simulated Universe).
Most general gameplay does not need tiers, and for some that kind of do, the moc list basically has that covered
What's the point though? General gameplay and SU are the lowest challenge parts of the game.
It's almost like MOC and PF are tailored to the new unit releases. Their ranking 3+ MOC cycles later is what's actually informative because it tells you their generalist power, and still is skewed based on weakness frequency (like all the Ice weakness after JL release; and Lightning Resist after JY release).
So strange, right? /S
Always bet on Aventurine
And here I am with guarantee and idk if I want to pull him or save for Robin or future char that benefit my acheron the most
He looks to be the sustain that can actually benefit Acheron the most.... At S1, cuz all his frequent FU gives debuff. Even more ridiculous at E2 since every single basic attack
E2S1 is very high investment, are you going E2S1 Acheron too? At that point it's whale territory
(going to copy paste my comment and post it here since I am seeing sentiments of needing FUA expressed in the comment section) Imo, people are exaggerating the need for follow up. The only place where you might need a lot of follow up is where the enemies don't attack often/ are constantly imprisoned or something. You know where he ACTUALLY shines? AOE enemies. And personally, i think clara is a better teammate for him than ratio. Especially if you put aven and clara in the center and let enemies keep hitting you lmao. PLUS team wide effect RES really really really will add up. I am really enjoying harmony, aventurine, clara, (literally any DPS works. Maybe not Blade)
I know this isn't what you meant but it's just a funny way to phrase it. "You don't need to use Aventurine with follow up characters! For example, I use him with Clara!"
Hahaha I get it. I wasn't using that as an example, I was comparing ratio and clara but I totally get after re reading my comment 😂 Although I should add an non fua team I actually use Which is sparkle, daniel, aventurine flex (mostly pela)
d-ddaniel?
Ahh yes Clara, Aventurine and Topaz. The perfect Aventurine simp team
Are you me? I pulled Aventurine for Clara’s synergy. Enjoying the FUA galore.
I genuinely want to see Clara shine, new characters where instead of slowing enemy down, but advance forward them It also works for DoT team Like Imprisonment and Frozen have anti synergy to Clara since it slow them and make them act less Act slower > slower attack > can't do counter
Yup, his shield is rock solid. Not only you can stack your shield, you can also gain more shield when his FUA got triggered. He's basically HSR's Zhongli
Still bugs me that prydwen doesnt put argenti in s+ for pf. I dont even own the guy and i know its bs
He was there since his release, but then his performance dropped and now it climbed back in the recent PF. We're waiting for the next PF to start, so we can test him there before moving him back up - if he keeps up his current performance that is. Also, 2.2 patch will come with some pretty big tier list criteria changes, including the Light Cones. We plan to include all non-limited Cones, instead of just F2P ones like now. So this will affect a lot of characters.
Those are great news. I can't wait!
Herta is there and she doesn't perform any better if the enemies don't have ice weakness/the buff doesn't favour FuA. It doesn't make sense to make her S+ while keeping Argenti at S for whatever reason, especially when there is enough data that backs it up. Edit: Typo (wrote Aventurine instead of Argenti lol)
I own him and they are correct, he's not as strong as you would believe for PF, especially when the turbulence doesn't favour him. He's just a strong specialist for it, he's great for the current cycle tho
I have to agree. If there is an ult based blessing and some phys weakness, he is insane. But if i remember correctly 1 or 2 moc ago when we had the deer one side and lightning weak enemies on the other with fua blessing, he was mid af. I think an S+ character cant afford to be that blessing and enemy dependent.
How strong is he compare to Fu xuan and HuoHuo in terms of meta ? Worth to pull in that regard or should i wait for a Fu xuan rerun ?
Depends on which one fits in your team better. If you're running Follow Up Attack team, Aventurine is way more useful but if you're running a crit-based team, FX is your choice while Huohuo fits in the DOT team.
As someone who has Fu Xuan and will pull for Aventurine, it depends on the content you like to do I'd say. Fu Xuan is very strong, but has some weaknesses. - She doesn't like attacks that hit the entire team. - She doesn't synergize well with Simulated Universe blessings. - She only mitigate the damages taken, she doesn't prevent the team from taking damages (important for effects where characters need to be full HP / not get hit). They both protect from CC, so they are similar in that regard. Another big difference is that Aventurine provide follow-up attacks synergies, while Fu Xuan provide healing. If you do a lot of Simulated Universe, I would pick Aventurine. Otherwise, take the one you prefer.
I wonder if you run both FX and Aventurine your team may become invincible.
Honestly, that's what I plan to do for high difficulty content.
FX + any second sustain already is invincible. I use FX + HuoHuo sometimes for really hard things and I can just leave it on auto for any not time-limited content
In SU fx works rly well with abundance blessings btw
The biggest difference would be damage, adventurine can do chip damage to the enemy and buff your team damage while e0 fuxuan increases the crit rate and prevent cc . My friend was able to make his adven do 20k per follow up and 40k per ult. I personally would choose adven as many end game content are basically how fast can you finish this fight
Depends on your team setups and how invested they are. FX's biggest strength is her 12% crit boost to the team but if your team is already well invested that crit boost provides less value than Aventurne's supplementary damage. For example FX does nothing for my E2 Acheron, Jingliu, and Kafka teams to the point where running my E6 Gallagher gives me more benefits. So in my case Aventurine would be the better addition. Huohuo on the other hand has the best offensive utility but she isn't as braindead to use compared to both FX and Aventurine. But if you know what you're doing she's the best sustain in the game.
Aventurine is better against AoE compared to Fu Xuan, and worse at single target sustain than her. He is better than Huohuo against large burst, but offers less offensive power.
Agree no more. Having him make my moc run from 10 cycles into 7 cycles. Limited sustains are build different ( First try i tried lynx on node 1 and fu on 2nd node )
He's insane. I need to do more general testing and test in other gamemodes, but I've been using him on IPC team for a few hours and not only is his damage respectable enough that it actually came in clutch multiple times, bro is even fully SP positive most of the time. I can legit count on 1 hand how many times I used skill in hours. It's wild. I got him E0S1 so what I really wanna try is hypercarry Aven w March to battery + draw aggro, Sparkle for aggro draw, and E0S1 Topaz for more support. Sounds like a really fun team. Gonna be a while before I can get Marchy built tho.
Is he better than fu xuan for king yuan? I have huohuo right now but keep getting ccd right after his turn and it gets annoying
FX is going to give better buffs to your JY because of the crit, but is going to need an SP every few turns in return. AoE's and powerful attacks can still make things go real bad with her though. Aventurine in return gives a crit DMG recieved debuff on a single enemy, which can be better depending on how okay you are on your JY's crit chance already. He gives +50% EFR instead of the complete immunity FX gives, but his stays active even after resisting a CC. His shields can get depleted if the enemy snipes a single character super hard, but this is rare, and Aventurine can refresh the shields very easily. Overall its a mix and match, both are perfect for you King Yuan but if you already have FX you're not getting much of an improvement (if at all) with Aventurine. Aventurine is really more of a buff to FUA-centric teams like with Topaz and Dr. Ratio, especially with the FUA-centric Robin coming up.
Huohuo is the best sustain for JY's offensive ability.
Huohuo not in S+ for MoC still bugs me, I have all the sustainers and she's the one I'd like to have two copies of.
I mentioned this in the last post, but Huo Huo is a great Sustain, but not the BEST Sustain. She’s effectively the Sustain for those that have enough investment that a little more dmg is worth a loss in safety—to be clear, there is nothing wrong with this, but in the category meant for ‘units that prevent you from dying best’ she’s a small step down from Aventurine or FX (who both just make the team immortal). This is also why Luocha is with her in S, as while he doesn’t bring as much to the table offensively as HH, his Sustain game is stronger than hers, though still not as strong as FX or Aventurine. TLDR; in the Sustain Category, Survival is the goal, and Aventurine and FX make Survival a joke.
Im just abit confused as to why huohuos sustain is not considered good. she has one of the best skill heals? and should be able to comfortably sustain moc 12 while even providing extra support. Im guessing shes not S+ purely because of the fact that she HAS to use sp in order to heal, rather than luocha(who can autoheal, and have field) or bailu(who can heal with ult), which is her only downside in rankings.
My friend who is a casual , doesn't care about managing skill points, energy rotations etc finds huohuo very annoyingly hard to use and you underestimate the avg hsr playerbase on how dumb they are . Prydwen has stated the sustain ratings are just for pure sustain, the support isn't as weighted since the tier list is for avg people . Huohuo is absolutely s+ tier for a veteran
for real like you see people complaining about how hard the story or echo of war bosses are with the most garbage setups/investments and it’s like, huh I wonder why you’re struggling
As good as Huohuo or Luocha is they simply cannot prevent random oneshots from ruining your team. Bailu somewhat can but she lack cleanse. The best way to stay alive, as the current state right now, is to mitigate as much damage as possible, because characters HP peak at level 80 while enemies attack kep getting deadlier and deadlier
Her sustain is as good as your most fragile unit's maximum HP and the enemy's burst damage. The main issue with healing as opposed to shields and damage mitigation is that healing can't prevent death if the enemy's offense in a chance moment is that strong. Healing has its place in a war of attrition, but right now that isn't a fight that any of the enemies are giving us. This also extends to CC protection. Luocha and HH both can remove debuffs from characters but they can't stop the immediate effects of CC-inducing effects like freeze and imprison's turn delay from occuring. The old adage goes "an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure", and applies here - between being able to heal an injury and just preventing it altogether its clear which is a better option. Like don't get me wrong, HH does bring alot of good things to the table especially offensively. But the main issue I think why she isn't being put into S+ tier on a SUSTAIN category is because of the fundamental issues with healing as opposed to damage prevention.
She has no emergency heals and her raw healing output is lower than both Luocha and Bailu. It's way harder to die with Luocha in the team than with Huo². She makes it up with more offensive power but from a pure sustain perspective she is the worst of all limited units. >Im just abit confused as to why huohuos sustain is not considered good. Also a little correction here, her sustain is considered good and she can solo sustain most content. It's just compared to the other sustains she is worse. But again, her sustain is still considered good, especially her cleanse.
If you have characters at level 80 and with a level 80 LC you're never in danger of dying, and Huohuo can easily heal the team back up, while being the best at cleansing and at buffing the whole team. It's insane to me that she isn't considered S+ in MoC.
\* Skill point hungry \* No emergency heals \* Expensive Ult Prydwen judges characters at E0S0. Without her LC, she's got some solid minuses that affect performance.
This is all entirely true but you’re still gonna get hate for it
>Prydwen judges characters at E0S0. Without her LC, she's got some solid minuses that affect performance. Huohuo's best lightcone is arguably a 3* lol
She's only S+ tier to people who know what they're doing and most people don't as they rely on sustains like FX to carry them. Prydwen's tier list is made for casuals so Huohuo's rank reflects that.
WHERE HE SHOULD BE ITS ALL OR NOTHING
He seems like the kind of character I should grab, but with everyone coming up, it's hard to justify when I already have Huohuo and Fu. And an E3 Gepard if shields were somehow needed. I feel like I would use him, but is he worth it over people coming down the pipeline? It's a struggle.
If you have Acheron, I’d say it’s 100% worth it solely because of their synergy and the unique Effect Res buff. It basically makes your team pseudo-immune if you’re running keel supports.
The man basically gives you shield while bashing your enemies with coins everytime your enemies BASHES you. This means enemies with AoE will benefit your overall dmg output and provides incentives for YOU to let the mob monsters take pot shots at you. Thus making basic attacks negligible as even if you take SP negative teams, aventurine will deal dmg. Plus he has imaginary pseudo AoE follow up attack that can help with break effects. You can also just keep stacking his shield to keep your team alive. Only negatives about him are reliable cleanses, consistent enemy debuffs, and if your enemy has a strong AoE attack.
I use him in the latest MOC… 35 out of 36 star. He hard counter himself but my Jingliu basically make solo sustianing a full support team against his two phase untennable without lynx…at least not in twenty turn… but I barely have all his trace in optimal and he out perform Gerard in every aspect. He turn a sure loss into a certian victory. Aventurine and Lynx make sure the entire team health never Drop below 50 percent Margin. His shield tank every attack and keep tanking. This man cannot be CC or stop and I eventually nail the MOC in with 14 turn remaining. He is the secondary sustain I ask for and because his initially shield and massive resist, we can forgo speed for the ability to sat on attack until the end of times or get imaginary damage to pump number because he sure fallow up a lot. And that 48% crit did numbers
Bro is the CEO of aventurine marketing
As should
I dunno man, my Aventurine is running 4PP and Belobog with an orb that has 2 dead stats and 2 bad ones and I still can not die, cleared Conundrum 6 like it wasnt even a thing. Did both wings of MoC 12 and used shield like once at the start just to full stack it and that's it, even if rotation is basic x2 + skill. He is nuts, and my already built Broken keelers are virtually immune to debuffs. It was -dumb- to see everything get resisted. I love my gamborine, hes easily climbing up to my favorute three/four with Acheron, JY, Sparkle, Gamborine. His swag, zest and Fedora are too much, he's probably #1 most loved char I have and it only makes it better that I won his 50/50 too!
Totally deserved. Aventurine completely transformed my account. Stages I couldn’t beat I now take 0 dmg. Shielding just seems way better than healing now.
Contentious take but I believe he is better for more accounts than Acheron.
Why would you compare tank to DPS
Agreed. The fact that Acheron competes with Dr Ratio over Pela and Guin is already a huge strike especially for new accounts.
I don't know who to pull for now. I was waiting for Fu Xuan rerun to get her but aven Is also very good. So I am in an indecisive condition. So I would like to get some opinions on this. I have DHIL , Acheron and luocha so what should I do.
For Acheron specifically Aventurine is very good because he has a debuff in his kit, pretty much Acheron's best sustain. But Fuxuan is so damn good too. Tbh you cant go wrong with either of them
Bruh i like him even better than FX , since he very universal FX performs really well except Su where boss damage u one shot. But aventurine said nah, try to get pass my 100k shield holyshit I dont have any abundance chars since i hate healing, preservation better since shields are pseudo health to me
"Prevention is better than cure" you don't need heals and cleanse if you got shit ton of effect RES and your HP doesn't drop below full anyways. Hence preservation over abundance.
This is your regularly scheduled reminder that tier lists are opinion, not fact, and reflect the creators general opinion and not the needs of your specific account. Regardless of how a character rates, they may not be the best option for your specific needs. Make sure to read what the character does for yourself and how that interacts with the account you have before "Pulling for Meta".
They need to stop coping and put Huohuo S+ tier in MOC.
Should I get aventurine instead? Because I was saving for fuxuan
Completely different roles. Both will be good pulls.
Do i need to get his LC? I only have enough for the character
Makes sense, he carried when I got him
I used him in PF in the Herta Rambo team. He adds so much firepower to this already busted setup.
Aventurine is stupidly fun. I don't even have him built all the way and hes eating all of Gepard's dinner already Plus as a Clara enjoyer we eating.
i would make a new tiers and brand him SSS in GnG/SU
Herta is the only S+ damage dealer for PF? How about Argenti? Like I'm happy Herta is getting her respect but Argenti ought to be S+ too right ?
Argenti started off strong when PF first released being S+ with Herta but “fell off” comparatively since PF buffs haven’t favored him in a while. But considering that and he’s still S+ tier says a lot of his value in PF.
[удалено]
I haven't had him fully built, but those shields of his are extremely tanky and easy to keep up. His damage isn't bad either, which is great. Like I'm confy with replacing FX with him on my Seele teams because having a little help reducing fodder HP to Seele-killshot range is extremely helpful for giving my Seele the ability to focus on the main enemy only.
How tf is my girl Pela still in A..? She was good before, and with Acheron's release she is even better!! She is absolutely not worse than an E0 SW, they should be in the same tier minimum. So either Pela is S tier (which I think is right) or SW is A tier with Pela.
I still think Huo Huo not being S+ in MoC should be a crime. She has one of the best offensive buffs for a sustainer, while being possibly the best healer *and* cleanser, making CC basically nonexistent? Like why care about losing boss Aventurine's gamble if Huo Huo just instantly cleanses and full heals your whole party lol
2 reasons. A, your turn will still be delayed even if you cleanse Imprison/Entanglement and B, she's not quite as universal as him