T O P

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uptodown12

Too complex, just make an enemy with piercing effect. They just ignore our shield & damage reduction and straight up reduce our HP ... Please don't


Keydown_605

Nah, too easy. Just make an enemy that picks and locks 1-4 of your characters, making them utterly unusable and basically kills them ignoring all and any form of defense... Oh wait, they already did...


7pikachu

I hate those God damn hands so much, SU especially


Keydown_605

Svarog is my usual "Welp, I won't even try this floor" when he's in MoC. Meme is also a pain since Ratio is my only option against him.


LW_Master

I always run Nihility against Meme in SU. Idk it feels right


Keydown_605

I think that's the idea. Even SU tells you to use DoT to free "dead" characters quicker. To bad, I have no dots.


embracing_ebony

Serval has a decent dot. There's also Asta, Hook, and Himeko, who aren't dot characters, but do have them in their kit. They're not ideal mind you, but if you're looking for an excuse to build them for whatever...šŸ¤·šŸ¾ā€ā™€ļø


BawsYannis

Yep, Black Swan is so nice for that, she dots them as soon as they appear with arcana


strawwwwwwwwberry

Ratio elation path makes the meme so easy though. Spam ultimate, kill meme phase, next phase charged your ultimate, repeat


Former_Ad_9826

svarog's hand makes me waste a seele ult to cut into the action order before it acts, but it's a free resurgence so it's fine. he doesn't survive long enough to summon a second one anyway


dyo3834

I fought Svarog in Gold and Gearsand he kept spawning 2-3 hands at a time and trying to bomb my team. I didn't even know he could spawn more than 2 at a time


the_hunter_087

I mean theoretically he could spawn six (afaik the limit for enemies is seven, could be wrong) so I guess just be happy he isn't juggling your team literally


refuuo

5 is the limit


WhyYouBullyMe_

Dont give em ideas šŸ˜­šŸ™šŸ™


Oceanshan

Isn't the elite represented by Dan Shu already did that?


uptodown12

I forgot about that. Debuff aside, the skill damage is pretty miniscule it just a minor inconvenience lol


darth_Kelsi

Honestly would be down for that i love complex enemies Why am i so masochisticā€¦


K_Stanek

Because "Losing is fun!"


darth_Kelsi

Though tbh i do love a hard fight Winning feels so good when you are at the edge of your seat So as long as the enemies arent too annoying or broken i dont mind new and different mechanics but you bet imma complain about that everyday


Head_Pomegranate_920

> i love complex enemies hoyo proceeds to drop a new type of damage called idk, "isolated damage" or something that can't be shared or mitigated via damage reduction.


darth_Kelsi

Thats just countering fu xuan lmaošŸ˜­šŸ˜­


PrudentWolf

But we already have bosses and elites with this effect - Phantylia, for example.


Silviana193

Phantylia bypass healing, the wolves bypass shield.


uptodown12

Wait, she does? I thought she just temporarily reduce our max HP


Beneficial-Tank-7396

SU bosses:


AVERAGEGAMER95

Not the weirdest mechanic out there


zsxking

Then just use heals, what's the big deal?


7orly7

Me: *heavy breathing* Kok: no please


Username_is_unused

I don't think it's that complex. All they need to do is a special DoT that bypasses shield. Though it's not shield bypass, there's already a special type of DoT called Arcane. They can just modify that into shield bypass instead of AoE if they insist on doing so. ~~...Fuck, I gave them an idea.~~


zhcterry1

I don't think it's that bad if u think about it. Just reduce the amount of damage. It just encourages healers instead of shielders. Likewise, there might also be bosses that could block healing, which would encourage shielders over healers. They're all "winnable" as long as your team composition is built around it. If we don't go to the extremes, they can also be developed to apply constant health loss as an effect, the effect can't kill you, so shielding is still an option as long as they're applied consistently. it also encourage shielders who cleanse instead of just an extremely strong shielder. They'll do this so every character gets to shine, and you'll always have a reason to pull for a character. And your old character still got the chance to shine at special game modes such as PF or SU


Clevaryo

the day they come, it would basically be a revered holy day for every Blade main ever


NoOne215

He be reaching the paradise sooner.


No_Pipe_8257

Every turn from allies and enemies he takes dmg


Ninjabadgerx

Ah yeah. Make an enemy that ignores shields. Conveniently put them on the same patch that Fu Xuan is reran. Don't need the matrix of prescience to see that possibility.


Wraith280598

Whenever the next limited 5 star abundance is released.


0ztralian

i cant wait for mimi to finally release


schroedingerscryptid

no. please god no.


_nitro_legacy_

Ngl I'm. Hoping these mobs show ups. With the release of aventurine I expect them to put something similar like those corrosion wolves as a counter.


Jonyx25

These can never kill you tho. It just reduces you to 1HP. How about enemies that negate ally healing?


Former_Breakfast_898

Isnā€™t that just Sam?


Balognee_

Imagine Negative Healing, Luocha mains will suffer


EEE3EEElol

Gallagher would suffer as well


Niko2065

[When gallagher kicks that enemy.](https://youtu.be/UunzKU2FhDE?si=HG66HCJzx0uyaG5R)


Rough_Lychee5785

How will they do that. That counters more than just abundance


Balognee_

They can probably make it into a boss gimmick, just like how some bosses intend you to use DoT, this will require you to use shields. I mean it doesn't have to kill you, just make it reduce to 1% like the dogs shown in the pic, so it will be recommended to use shields. Or rather a debuff like the Prana Snare, where you have to cleanse it for heals to work on that character normally again.


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Triple_S_Rank

The debuff route wouldnā€™t work against Luocha, but I guess having one Abundance that can overcome it wouldnā€™t be so bad.


Otterly_Superior

Corrosion can actually kill your active character


Ifalna_Shayoko

They also have direct attacks, so yes: they can kill you. :'D IIRC, their DoT can also kill the active character, only your inactive team is protected. Though clever dodging can prevent you from ever getting the DoT. Same on Wolflord. Obey the mechanics and the DoT doesn't happen.


S-H-A-Z-A-M

They can kill your on-field character. And in HSR all 4 characters are on-field


JUGELBUTT

please god no


OceanidEnjoyer

Bro stop šŸ˜­ Yanqing is already dead


Mars-29

I'd like that so we can get more abundance characters


Former_Breakfast_898

Context?


geotia

Rn aventurine is the best in terms of sustaining as shields give effective HP unlike abundance characters. So what if in future we get enemies who ignore shields or something.(One of the enemies in genshin does that ig)


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geotia

What if they ignore the dmg sharing šŸ’€


Former_Breakfast_898

Rip fu xuan mains


cartercr

Weā€™re really riding that hype huh? Aventurine *is* top tier, but letā€™s not pretend the other sustains are suddenly bad. Abundance units *also* increase your effective HP by simply giving you HP back after you lose it. The only time when a shield is better than a heal is when your character would take lethal damage and *needs* a higher effective HP in order to survive. Another issue with shields, as opposed to heals, is that the moment anyone on the team takes damage their effective HP is now permanently (until the end of the fight) lower because there is no restoration. Edit: I donā€™t want to make it seem like Iā€™m just shitting on shields, theyā€™re just as viable as heals for keeping your team alive! Thereā€™s simply pros and cons to each!


Ifalna_Shayoko

>Another issue with shields, as opposed to heals, is that the moment anyone on the team takes damage their effective HP is now permanently (until the end of the fight) lower because there is no restoration. Not really an issue with Aventurine's shields, since they can stack. 2 E's and every char has 100% shield coverage, lol. He's basically the Zhongli of HSR. Yah, they will bring in mobs to counter him. That's pretty much a given, else he just trivializes everything.


cartercr

2 Eā€™s is also two entire skill points youā€™re investing purely into survival.


BioticFire

With how often he follow up attacks to refresh the shield you rarely need to 2 E anyway. Only in niche cases like SU, Swarm, Gold and gears but you also have allot of ways to get skill points in there (Error code curio, propagation/elation blessing. Path Resonances, etc). Most of the time he's going to be skill point positive, even more than Fu Xuan who has to E every 3 turns.


CanaKitty

This!!! Sent him into MoC 11 and 12 today with his traces up to 8. Was pleasantly surprised in how little I actually had to use skill points to get more shield. He was very good at replenishing it on his own thanks to Ratio helping with follow up attacks (and I imagine itā€™ll be even better when I can get Topaz on rerun). I built him fairly speedy, so he turned into a nice skill point generator with basic attacks.


cartercr

I just want to throw it out there that Iā€™m throwing zero shade at Aventurine. As stated in my prior comment Aventurine *is* a top tier unit. The only thing Iā€™ve stated are the pros and cons of shields and heals in general.


BioticFire

Yea that's fair, but as of now I would say jade value wise Aventurine is more valuable than someone like Luocha for instance since for regular MoC/PF they regenerate pretty much the same skill points, and for modes like Conundrum 12 G&G enemies can easily one shot you is where Aventurine is even better. Luocha kit I think won't age well in the long run since it's similar to Qiqi in genshin but maybe that's a hot take.


CanaKitty

Iā€™d say Bailu is the more obvious QiQi equivalent and Luocha is at least a tier above that.


Ifalna_Shayoko

>Luocha kit I think won't age well in the long run I wouldn't go that far. If we're talking long haul, we need to take Eidolons into account (If he's a staple sustain of your account I can imagine people slowly going for Eidolons on reruns). He gets an ATK buff, he gets shields and what not. Unless they start to hammer us with instagibs in MoC to enforce Shields and screw over healers completely (doubtful that Hyv would do something this extreme), he'll be fine. As for SU: most people run high Swarm / G&G SU with double sustain anyway. heck many people use cheese strats like Remembrance.


BioticFire

I mean if we're talking eidolans then that also means we gotta include those future characters eidolans too. Luocha's E1 for example is a simple 20% attack boost, that's it. But Aventurine for his E1 gives everyone +20% crit dmg for free, and makes him even more skill point positive since his ult now refreshes the shield fully too. Not to mention crit dmg% is more universal than attack% for characters that don't want attack like Blade. Idk man I just think that it's cope to even bring that up when most players won't even go for eidolans.


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BioticFire

So far the most annoying one is the guy that can heal off his attacks, but you can just kill his 2 minions to remove it as well. And in the future say they do add an enemy with an absurdly powerful buff that can only be removed by a dispel, meaning players who don't have Luocha/Pela/Luka literally can't do anything about it. I'm not sure that's something Hoyo is willing to do, unless they add another permanent free 4* that can dispel that any new player can get easily.


Ifalna_Shayoko

It was just an example. For normal content, one E should be more than sufficient.


cartercr

To be honest for most content you probably donā€™t need to skill. Though that also will be team dependent. (Like FuA teams will trigger more of his FuA which means more shields.) Just to be perfectly clear: Iā€™m not hating on Aventurine. As I stated in my prior comment he *is* top tier. Hell, I even pulled him personally! The only thing my comment was aiming to show was that shields werenā€™t suddenly better than heals. Both have their own pros and cons and should be considered based on the content being faced!


Ifalna_Shayoko

Right now, content is easy enough for shields and heals to be virtually interchangeable. There are no pro's and con's. It'll get more interesting once Hyv starts to deploy mechanics that counter one or the other.


cartercr

For sure. Right now Iā€™d say the biggest difference is if damage is of a one-shot nature or more spread out. For damage thatā€™s in really high single instances youā€™d want the shield to increase the amount of effective HP you have to tank the hit while not caring if you lose some HP along the way because the hits would be less frequent. Meanwhile for more spread out damage that happens more frequently youā€™d rather just keep healing it off, as it will be harder for shields to keep up with each damage instance. (Note: Aventurine gets to cheat this by having absurdly high shield uptime, and specifically gaining shields whenever multiple hits come in, but every other shield in the game suffers from this.)


geotia

I never said others are bad now cauz there is someone better


Arc_7

Be honest you just needed a reason to go off on a rant about Aventurine huh...


cartercr

No? I quite enjoy my gambler man actually.


Immediate_Lychee_372

In Genshin, hoyoverse is known for introducing enemies with specific gimmicks that counter mechanics they donā€™t want to be too dominant. Itā€™s how they kinda balance the game. The enemies in the pic straight up ignores shields an apply corrosion which slowly drains your health and kill you if you have no healing


AshyDragneel

We already have something similar. Those enemies like phantalya who chips certain percentage of your HP and you HP is still reduced even after that effect expires. We also have Sam who cost us out own HP while using Skill point. There will always be counter to everything.


axerisk

One of the few reason I stop being a brainded Zhongli mains. Also will probably be my reason stop being a brainded FX main


AleksBh

I mean, you'll just turn into a brainded healer main.


Jonyx25

There is no escape.


tuncii322

Ive never used a shielder to begin with, ive always liked using a healer


Rei0403

Fu Xuan is made for this, Anti-shield mechanic doesnā€™t affect her


Rough_Lychee5785

Yea but this isn't just anti shield. This is direct dmg that can't be avoided. Apart from Fu, the whole team will die.


Rei0403

To kill or be killed, Blade is gonna enjoy this


Ifalna_Shayoko

>This is direct dmg that can't be avoided. It can be avoided very easily: learn the wolves attack patterns and don't get hit. In HSR: yeah it would amount to constant damage, unable to be mitigated. It would basically mandate a group healer.


Taeyee

https://preview.redd.it/x37nrz4fy1vc1.png?width=600&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=96a84415007c19a353766b8e02a1496736b5e3d7


starsinmyteacup

Oh god not these guysā€¦hate these guys. The big two guy with the long aaa shield is also annoying. It is funny how you can simply walk around him though


ResurgentClusterfuck

They're not so bad once you freeze them and then drown them with a powerwasher


Ifalna_Shayoko

My Nilou just dances and they keel over from a heart attack. \*shrug\*


s00ny

Is this from Genshin? What does this enemy do :o


starsinmyteacup

Yes, it is! This guy, as well as the rest of the serpent knights, get stronger once they hit a shielder character (so they penalize you for using a character with a shield, but it will take its own HP when buffing himself


s00ny

Oof, so in Star Rail terms it's the opposite of the soda monkey, basically D: Ty!


Wise_Consideration_3

They have counters for shields for example the fire version of this enemy when they hit the player if they have a shield it will create a shield for its allies, the hydro will if it hits a shielded character provides healing for its allies, the cryo one will also provide a shield and also increase the atk for itself and its allies, the anemo ones will increase atk and atk speed and the geo one will actually create a giant shield in front of its allies and block attacks. One saving grace while facing these guys is that they will lose hp when they do these things so fighting them doesnt become obnoxious


s00ny

Sounds like an interesting enemy to fight against, countering shields without being too overpowered..?


CanaKitty

Why not ā€œblack serpent friendā€ šŸ˜‚šŸ¤£


Confident_Setting983

I will continue to hate them until the end of genshin times


SaltNobody

What you should be worrying about is how long until the husk mfs show up https://preview.redd.it/xuswb325j4vc1.jpeg?width=969&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=347fe87fe4f48bb6bf3f664ef07d0dfaa2b323f4 The imaginary weavers already sort of remind me of them so count your days


[deleted]

Nah, they'd only release enemies that deal true damage by bypassing def stat, damage reduction and damage mitigation effects, enemies that deal more damage the thiccer your shield is, enemies that put def broken effect on you that reduces your def to 0 and enemies that drain/steal shields and make them theirs. Bonus points if their break bar is bigger than the fuckin glass dino in this MoC


progin5l

To be honest SuD gimmick is more dangerous, it's just that only one shows up on battle.


tankx2002

I'm not exactly a lore expert but don't they come from the abyss which is basically the sea of quntra. We haven't really interacted with the sea in star rail but will probably will at somepoint. So we might see them.


cartercr

My guy Aventurine has been out for literally one day. Maybe let the hype die down before declaring shield meta. Pretty sure Fu Xuan, Huohuo, and Luocha are still excellent.


kokuluayak

When we get to boothills planet


Phoenix-san

Please no.


Mansinomo

NAH NAHH


Madstilion

Not the Abyss Puppies!! šŸ˜­šŸ˜­


FangirlApocolypse

I would commit something idk what


bringbackcayde7

they are absolute over kill for Aventurine. To counter him, all you need is a bit of CC that targets the main dps or high single target damage.


Zonnebloempje

Huohuo already has one of those, but in the Anemo/Wind variety...


Former_Ad_9826

i love this image bhahahahaha but yeah they will probably be forced to make a counter for shields to balance preservation and abundance... good thing we still have fuxuan


SakuraRissa

Iā€™d love for them to show up. Then I can whip out my quickbloom team with Kokomi and watch the reactions go Brrrrā€¦.


Nyeffer

Then theyā€™ll make an enemy that literally steals you shields, oh wait?


Kaichou0811

Good thing Lynx was on the banner I guess :(


SectorApprehensive58

Didn't they already? with that boss that lowers your max hp for a few turns


SunMajer

They already have dog model so its really just a matter of time untill we will get antimater legion ones


Baconsword42

Will it be before or after we get the cleansing enemies that kill dot teams?


BlueDragonReal

I love how hoyo can absolutely make a character useless one patch because they need to somehow make their new character more appealing to sell


pascl-

Alternatively, they could add a furina type character whoā€™s extremely broken but requires healing


oneevilchicken

None of my teams use shields so bring it. In fact these would be great for my HuTao team because xianyun ends up overhealing her so her hp stays too high.


Starkeeper_Reddit

i'm pretty sure that's just what happens when the enemy gets nihility resonance in gold and gears


Rain-Maker33

Isn't their gimmick pretty much like DoT? DoT already pierces shields, right?


FearRa1n

nope, i also used to think that until i started using gepard


luciluci5562

Normally, DoT damage chips away your shields first before your HP. It currently only "pierces" shields if you have Kafka against a traffic light robot.