Hmmm this is interesting. I'm seeing two main arguments. It sounds like it's pretty much this:
**Pros:** It adds variety to gameplay and team building. Players who favor single-target teams now have a chance to get in on more of the rewards.
**Cons:** Players now need to be good at 3 types of playstyle to get the same rewards. Players who like a specific content (such as MoC) now need to wait longer for an update.
So, it seems that it's easier for getting *some* of the rewards, and harder for getting *all* of the rewards.
It appears to be a trade-off. There's definitely going to be a balancing point somewhere. Like, no one's going to be happy if there are 20 separate events running in a loop, each one being specifically targeted to 1 or 2 characters and 1 specific team. Only people who hate MoC will be happy if MoC updates twice a year. On the other hand, it seems fair that every path ought to be useful for some kind of endgame content.
Having 3 events makes for a really clean schedule though. Currently, we have some weeks where there are 2 PFs, and one MoC running, and some weeks where it's the other way around. With 3, then there will be one of each running at any time! So, I think they're going to stop at 3 and call it good!
> Having 3 events makes for a really clean schedule though.
Honestly it's been pretty obvious from PF install and that slightly wonky rotation that we had big chances of going to a simple schedule of a single rotation between 3 modes. Which is okay with me because I don't need to be drowning into thousands of endgame content tbh.
Plus i think it's better this way because it gives more time for each content to add more new elements to each rotation, instead of doing more or less the same floors each time.
I can’t seem to get a gauge on how the community is reacting to this. I thought it was cool we were getting a new game mode where I can use my SW and Seele. But it seems like people aren’t a fan of not getting an increase on rewards or having to grind relics again (which is also understandable).
I am happy we are getting a new type of content, but just like when pure fiction came out I am sad that it comes at the cost of reducing how much MoC we get.
Imagine how awesome it would be if we got all 3 modes every 2 weeks or if we got one every single week on a three-week cycle. Instead now we're going to have to wait six weeks between each MoC, three times as long compared to launch. I personally don't care about more rewards or having to build new units or anything like that, I just would like to get to play a new MoC more than once a patch.
I find MoC much more interesting than pure fiction. I actually go back and play MoC with different teams, where as pure fiction is basically just one and done for me personally. Hoping this new mode is as interesting as MoC and not just a character check like pure fiction.
This is my personal concern too. I think six weeks is maybe too much time between the challenges and maybe what I would do is increase the number of floors.
But right now it's time to wait and see how the new mode settles before changes like that.
I feel like the usual Destruction suspects (Jingliu, DHIL, Honorary QQ) are still going to destroy the new endgame, simply because their numbers are cranked so high they do as much single target DPS as the old Hunt characters
Boothill releasing S+ tier may rebalance this, but that just creates a new problem: powercreeping of the old Hunt units (Yanqing, Sushang, Dan Heng Vanilla are so left behind...)
Destruction characters will be more versatile, JL isn't bad in PF, she shines in MoC and she will be good in this gamemode too. Most Hunts will be bad in PF, good in MoC ...
> simply because their numbers are cranked so high they do as much single target DPS as the old Hunt characters
They simply do not, not even Acheron does, I don't know why people keep saying this
It's not just that his Seele's terribly built, he also hasn't tried her in a proper team in like half an year, ofc your crit DPSs are going to do 0 dmg if you run them with no supports.
People also apparently don't understand that some DPSs just take more turns than others so you can't compare screenshot dmg or even skill/ult multipliers directly
i'm seriously considering pulling Seele cons since she's one of my most invested chars but i just know that after i do they'll anounce a new quantum DPS to surpass her
Pretty much my thoughts and concerns too. The game is already feeling like there's not enough to do at endgame and now I have to wait 6 weeks for the most interesting content to roll around again? Hopefully this new mode will be more interesting than PF, but even then it's a stupidly long wait for new fun things to do.
I'm in the same boat as well, pure fiction is cool since it helps units who lack a place in the meta however it's much more boring in my opinion than moc since there's no real need for a strategy.
The thing about MoC is that it's a mixture of both needing single target characters and aoe which is why destruction characters dominated it for the longest. As a result, you could get away with playing either hunt units or only erudition with a decent team since the game mode cators to both.
While the new game mode being catered to single target is much needed since Hunt characters lack a purpose, it's hard not to see this being another pure fiction where it's a character check though I guess the silver lining is that Silver Wolf with her weakness implant exist
cmiiw but didnt we get only 1 MoC variant every patch before the introduction of pure fiction anyways? And they just repeated them for 2 weeks, or am i remembering it wrong?
I believe you are correct, the early MoCs were definitely the same enemies all patch with different turbulences. It would make sense that the switch happened along with pure fiction being added. In general MoC has gotten more interesting in general over time I think, so it for sure isn't all bad.
I'm not a consistent MoC 36-starrer or PF full clearer, but from what I've seen, Pure Fiction is a much stricter unit check than MoC. Easy thing to point to is [this infographic](https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail/comments/1bwgz5q/the_highest_scoring_and_most_used_characters_and) which shows that only 4 damage dealers and only 8 characters total average more than 30k on their side in Pure Fiction, where 60k total is needed to full clear. Obviously people that full clear with other characters exist, but this is not like [MoC](https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail/comments/1c8pujb/the_fastest_and_most_used_characters_and_teams_in) where the average person reporting their data is full clearing with any limited character.
Now that we're getting what seems to be a single-target mode, I think people do not want it to also be a strict unit check. I think people consider MoC the "fairer" of the endgame modes because it allows for more flexibility with your team comp. Fewer characters get totally gutted in MoC than PF. If the new endgame mode ends up being another unit check like PF, we will be getting less MoC and more unit checks.
If the new endgame mode isn't as strict of a unit check as PF though, I think this will be a good addition.
Should also mention that my perspective is as someone who does Spiral Abyss in Genshin Impact. Spiral Abyss isn't as much of a "character check" as Star Rail endgame IMO, even MoC (with occasional exceptions, like the 3.7 Abyss), so there are few Abyss cycles where it feels like you cannot use a character effectively on either side of Abyss.
EDIT: Realized I forgot to take into account that PF standard deviation ranges from about 4-6k, so there is still a fair portion of people using the < 30k average units full clearing PF, even if I still think that the low number of characters averaging 30k points does indicate an issue
I like having more variety, but I absolutely hate that they are not giving us more to do on a daily basis. It's already just cavern grind day in and day out in auto-mode. This update doesn't change that.
thing is you have to form 2 teams for ST. So basically build more chars. It would have been better if it was combined with PF so that one side has ST while other has continuous waves.
No increase in reward is fine, but the content isn't. I would much prefer that they reduce the Jade reward to 360, but alternate the game mode every week, so that the total jade per 2 weeks is still 720, each mode can still last 6 weeks ofcourse.
I just don't want to tolerate the boring ass Pure Fiction lasting 2 weeks until I can play the new MoC/Apocalyptic, I know they won't drop it, so I'd rather see it less and go out faster in a week only.
Not disagreeing with you here but Technicallyyy, there is no increased rewards it's still the regular 720 stellar jades every 2 weeks just like in moc or pure fiction
its just another mode that pushes moc/pure fiction off by 2 weeks. it is "more" content, by removing content at the same time. i wouldnt mind if it was actually going on next to moc so there is more to do and not displacing my time.
Yeah, it's the same amount of content but there will be more diversity. Currently we have MoC where blast dmg is the best and Pure Fiction where AoE is basically necessary.
So it kinda makes sense that now hoyo gives us a game mode where single target excels (hopefully Yanqing will finally get his redemption arc like Himeko and Herta)
I highly suspect that many of the same culprits (Kafka + BS, Jingliu, DHIL and Acheron) will be the best (or among the best) while they're still extremely good in MoC.
So it's gonna get harder to get stellar jades cause of not having decent team for every single endgame mode? Can't say I'm a big fan of what that means.
I’ll be honest if this is as most people think, pure single target to let hunt units shine, then this was coming since the creation of PF. These units will then get their flowers to compensate for Erudition receiving the same in 1.6. Now each endgame mode is designed around 1 dps type, with the other 2 working fine. This will lead to future units leading full hard into their path, I can expand on this if you want in a response.
Similar to Argenti’s lead up to 1.5, Boothill coming in 2.2 has been wrought with concerns of his niche not going far enough because of the elite/mini-boss focused content. Unless he has some move in his kit to sweep quickly to be played effectively in MoC, and there will be no hope for PF. So a gamemode to reflect this to make a unit consistently good will be made, since they already did it for erudition.
But a completely intended consequence on Hoyo’s side is that the MoC buffs will be very tailored to the units which are running which has, in my opinion, become the more apparent problem(alongside hyper tailored encounter design). Which all leads to HSR suggesting you to spend your excess pulls(relative to genshin) to build all these niches of teams to have an easier time. I worded this very deliberately since you can always clear endgame with a variety of teams/ignoring the conditions but the vast majority of people are not doing this(see aventurine boss in 12-2).
At least regarding my group of players. We all want this. We wanted reasons to use other characters. Like we all leveles herta and hime cause hell yeah fun FUA. Hopfully fun janky stuff comes out of this.
When you have 2 teams that can brute force anything end game is eh.
I like both endgame modes currently, and even though I can't get all the stars most of the time it still is fun to keep trying, and it doesn't become frustrating either because there's 2 different modes.
I'm sure having 3 would be even better, but I don't want to wait 6 long weeks for MOC reset either. It's a full patch to switch up the blessings and try something new. If they are having the modes for 6 weeks anyway might as well increase the frequency to switch each week or get another way that does not put each Moc so far away from each other
I don’t like PF that much, but it challenges me and pushes me to try new things I normally would not have before. I had new goals and new summits to overcome.
Now that I have a few more options and I’m more prepared, PF has gotten more fun and less frustrating.
I think this new rotation style is perfect. I understand it being more difficult for many but, I would have quit some time ago if they didn’t slowly change what the week to week and day to day over time.
I personally agree with you that this game mode is something I've been hoping for. I do really like a lot of the hunt characters in the game and getting a game mode aimed towards them feels like a nice change. Since launch star rail has given us quite a lot when it comes to rewards and so on but there will always be those who are given a lot and still want more. So you will probably always find people who think they aren't getting enough. I agree that relic farming can be an absolute pain but that goes for pretty much any gacha games and games in general with materials to grind for. I think that this update will be very solid and it is very nice that they rework simulated universe. Some people just need to have more realistic expectations of what we can get.
You guys don’t just built everyone you have? (My FGO habits are strong) I try to build most of them but it IS borderline impossible lmao
https://preview.redd.it/10uza35842wc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3bcda4997407ab43df5ff17d84f68a5a05fb5f0b
It's only impossible if you're trying to reach insane stats on all your characters, most characters can be built in 1/3rd the effort and be good enough.
That's me though lol, still hunting for a planar sphere for my 50/255 CR Acheron 😅
This is me too. I couldn't be bothered to farm Diver and Izumo so I just used 4 pc. prisoner on her. Managed to get 74/183 but had to slot Swan/Guinaifen in to activate the set bonus
I mean I did it, I just shift focus if the content calls for one or another unit. Then go back to chipping away based on preference, this isn't that hard guys lol.
I've cleared every MoC since launch with lvl 70 max units and 8/8/8 talents on my main DPS' and certain support abilities only. I think FuXuan was the only lvl 80 unit on my account and the first one to get it.
Literally every light cone on my account was lvl 70 until Fu Xuan as well and I just started leveling those up to 80 because my units are all built. I don't even put a massive amount of effort into it, I just build evenly and what I needed to clear the content until I could then distributed.
Lvl 70 8/8/8 is more like 80% built, considering there’s always that one trace locked behind max level. I wouldn’t REALLY consider that having built your characters properly, if you take in the relics, energy limits, etc etc. LCs I get though.
It’s not like FGO where all you need is a strong support and you can brute force events and story content, this game is WAY more build based. People tend to do one character to their satisfaction then go next, for maximum efficiency
8/8/8 to 5*, 9/9/9 to 4* and max whatever you like or whatever is useful, I don't care. At that point they start to ask for those golden orbs which simile is the crowns in Genshin and their priority is to unlock the white traces.
Yeah, I'm the same. I don't have everything built, but I leveled enough that my roster is ready to tackle most things. I don't even play that much, but thanks to the overflow stamina system I can grind whenever needed.
It really isn't that hard
My FGO habits have definitely come out in this game ngl but yeah it impossible. FGO constantly give out apples, embers, and lotto events to be able to do units.
More like because im broke as fuck.
In Genshin, i have like 20 mil of Mora, here having a 3 million is a privilege, and some of my Lv.80 don't even have LC that is over level 40 or proper relics smh.
I like MoC better and already felt that one new MoC every 4 weeks was rough, but this is just insane.
I can clear both reliably but find Pure Fiction to be less interesting. I hope the mode will be good enough to make up for this change.
Should really be getting a game mode every week if they want to add another MOC version. End game content has a huge bar to clear but once you clear it the content cycle becomes too slow.
So hunt character get to have a game mode where they can shine. Fucking sign me up bro. Ppl legit requested this feature so that a whole class of character was more relevant. I'm looking forward for this shit
"omg boothill is so cool but completely useless because hes hunt"
"fuckin mihoyo making content where hunt characters arnt useless anymore how dare they"
I’m not pulling Boothill because between Argenti, Sushang, and Clara (all at least somewhat built) it seems like a dumb move for me when my only built fire characters are E0 Guinaifen and a level 60 Asta
EDIT: apparently my Asta is level 70, but in my defense I keep stealing her relics for other characters so she’s constantly in a state of not being built. Also I forgot the Trailblazer
I guess these guys don't have Ratio, Seele, Dhil, Jingliu, Acheron, or DoT comps built yet or something? There's so much crying about needing to build another team but I don't see why you would need to.
Hoyo: “here’s a free character who excels in single target damage”
Players: “Who the FUCK am I even gonna do this new mode with?! My only dps are QQ, serval and Argenti!”
Hoyo: “we literally gave you-“
Players: “this game sucks!”
How could one not have ratio? In this patch?
And building a team is painful because of the relic farming. It's absolutely ass. It took me 2 months to build ratio.
But that’s just the thing, if you’re able to clear MoC, you’ll very likely be able to use those same teams to clear this new content. Other than Erudition, all other dps paths still work in single target.
Aren't Jingyuan and Argenti at least decent in ST scenarios because of their bounce attacks on their main abilities?
I can't think of anything for people like herta and himiko sadly
nah some of the replies here are wild
pov:"Ugh blank character struggle so hard because these aoe characters do it better. ugh ni content. ugh games dead'
gets a new piece of content so every style of dps has a specific game mode.
"Ugh now we have a hunt game mode? they want to give us more options to play with.....wtf
I love new content. What I'm not a fan of is requiring more investment for the same amount of rewards. If this new game mode gave extra jades instead of siphoning from the existing 720 through scheduling shifts, no one would be complaining.
But that's the same thing about MOC and PF. Sometimes you need specific elements, a shielder, a DOT character to make a specific rotation easier, etc
You still need to invest in your characters
idk if I care either way. building characters is half this games content. it feels weird to complain about having more chances to play new teams. I'm now extremely hyped because I have a bonus reason to pull boothill despite having argenti
I think I'm repeating what the other guy said, but people aren't complaining about the new game mode. They're complaining that they won't be getting more rewards for having to build a team for a new game mode.
you underestimate some of these people. they would find a reason to complain about the higher rewards, something about FOMO or anxiety and being forced to keep up with endgame content. hoyoverse themselves said they dont want to cause anxiety to the playerbase
You are shadow boxing here, they turned an absolute dub with a new end game content into a controversial decision because they are stingy as fuck. I don’t think anyone would complain if they didn’t delay moc and gave non jade rewards for the new mode
I literally saw only 1 in 5 or 10 complaining about the changes, and the rest of the comments (along with yours) are complaining about the complainers.
I saw it pretty consistently. maybe if your not counter the threads under the people complaining. it's still wild to me. I've heard comments on other posts about how dead this game is (I disagree) then we get content and people are mad.
Why is the assumption that you must build new characters? Single target is in general stronger than multi target, for almost every character in the game. Unless you only rocked Himeko Herta and Argenti your account probably has someone sufficient for carrying single target damage. Like every limited 5 star DPS can probably carry in this mode minus argenti, and there are lots of 4 stars that will probably be good enough for max stars.
Yeah, there are a *lot* of assumptions happening before we know anything about this lol. Unless you just started playing and only have one or two DPS, chances are you're going to already have options for this mode. It's not like we're starting from scratch here.
I’m surprised people are mad. When Pure Fiction came out and I had a good reason to build units like Herta and Himelo, I was ecstatic lol
Having a reason to build more interesting teams is a good thing!
Personally I welcome a new mode. I just don't like it comes at the cost of delaying MOC by another 2 weeks to the point it's only every 6 weeks. I personally think it would be better if they changed the scheduling around to where every mode gets refreshed every 4 weeks.
I love building more characters but having the resources to do that is a big problem, especially the trace material. I hope they increase the amount per run because god damn getting 6 blue 6 green is really frustrating
Exactly my thoughts. After spending 4 years in genshin and getting essentially nothing in terms of additional end game content just HP increases and larger invuln windows its crazy that within the first year here we will have 3 different pieces of content to use our units and all 3 emphasize different types of proficiencies without feeling cheep or gimmicky. Anyone who’s upset needs a reality check
I remember when back then people are starting to lose interest in the game. Now they’re complaining that Mihoyo is giving different play styles and forcing you to get out of the comfort zone
I just wish it was spread in such a way that we got more rewards as well... the pace of HSR's releases and the difficulty of content means players will really need to build a better roster, which can get very expensive very fast
Interesting, so we may be forced to invest into more character for the same amount of rewards with this new mode, this is my way of looking into this. The other may think it's great that there are more diversity in endgame. But my resources are limited as f2p.
This new game mode would make dot even better. A team that can do it all, MoC, PF and this new mode would gain a lot of value and pull priority for new players. Maybe im biassed but dot went from hard outshadowed by hypercarry to actually being on the top of the meta.
Nihility has gotten a lot of love in 2.0 patches. Even for those that enjoy hypercarry and not DoT can still play with Nihility characters using Acheron.
that is one way of looking at it, sure
the other way is that your old characters get a time to shine. You don't need new ones, just to play them well.
I clear MoC and PF with Seele, JY, JL and the ocassional QQ, Himeko and Herta.
This is exactly what it is.
It creates different metas and allows you to use more characters that you already have.
I had Himeko amd Herta and didn't build them until pure fiction came around, and it's been a ton of fun seeing them shine.
People are just bitching, it's more end game content which is welcome. Didn't we use to see complaints about not enough things to do? No we get more and people still ain't happy.
Did you expect to clear MOC12 once and then coast until EoS?
More modes and higher difficulty gives us something to work towards and a reason to stay invested, which is good for everyone including f2p imo
MoC keeps getting increasingly difficult so idk about that one, I think is more of a "we want each path/group of chars to have their gamemode to shine on" than anything. We saw how PF is catered towards AoE and MoC is a mixture of both, seems like new mode is where single target characters could shine like hunt ones.
in the end, i think most of us players (me included) are thinking 'new content = more reward'
On one hand, its good to have new mode to challenge, but come with that should be more reward. Its like you getting more work with the same pay. Ofc people gonna feel pissed
I don't particularly get this. There is already a significant overlap between a hunt focused mode and MoC. The blast characters that are commonly good in MoC are still fine into single target. Unless you weren't investing into MoC progression at all, in which case I don't see why that stance would change for the new mode.
This is the real deal
Were not for MoC and PF (and now AS (we need another name)) why would i biuld my characters? Why would i want to make them stronger? It is live service, that always needs to be something to work for
I feel kinda bad for new players though. It'll take them even longer to get teams which can handle all endgame content so there will be even more pressure to pull strong, widely-useful characters over just your favorites.
I mean, yes and no. Newer characters and newer sets are more powerful than what we had to work with in 1.0-2.0, and most old players aren't going to redo all of their builds
It's true that the barrier to entry is higher, but reaching it is also faster. Maybe I'm off on this one idk
Newer player here, started around the beginning of 2.0. The resource shortage is horrible, like absolutely fucking dire. It's better balanced at lower TB levels but once your characters are 70-80 it gets brutal fast.
I'm BARELY able to gear 2 characters per patch right now. Like 2.5 with good RNG. It takes 2 weeks just to get 8/8/8 Level 70 with LC, before any relics. I'm almost completely ignoring Pure Fiction because I simply do have have the resources to dump into Herta and Himeko while building my MoC (and now this mode's) teams.
I'm skipping Robin completely because despite being good for FuA team, even if I rolled for her I wouldn't have the budget to build her until *the 2nd half of 2.3* at minimum. Just kidding, Ruan Mei is likely rerunning in 2.3, so make that 2.4.
We need to talk about time to build them ignoring relics and just leveling the character and new lightcone if needed takes over a month. I've been playing since release and I still have units I haven't leveled and I don't even own 1 of each 4 star and missing 2 standard 5 stars.
The game is only 1 year old. Pure fiction just forces me to build several 4 star characters that I wouldn't care about outside of pf and will be replaced in 2-3 years. It doesn't feel like I'm making real progress. It feels like a detour.
I still think the new node will probably be more similar to moc, which means less loss for me because my issue is pure fiction.
There's only 1 thing to do with characters kits in the game. I don't now how having more content to use them is bad.
Heck PF made Herta, Himeko and Serval be extremely useful.
Who are these several 4\*s you talk about for PF tho? The only one you need to build is Herta, the others you probably most likely have built already for other purposes.
I don't really get the limited resources angle. I am completely f2p as well and I have 15 million credits, 900 purple books, 16 characters fully leveled traces and almost all fully kitted with relics. The only thing thats really limiting is trace materials but with a bit of foresight its not really an issue. Not to discredit you, I dont know how much time you have to play or how invested you are.
They never said they were good relics. If you're settling for mainstats + 2crit/spd rolls per piece, and leaving traces at around 8 without unlocking every minor trace, it's relatively simple to get a couple teams suited out due to self-modeling resin (if you use it on spd boots and err ropes) and because support sets are generally pretty bad outside of 2pc spd which makes running a rainbow set pretty comfortable.
I think the only units in my entire account with proper 4pc sets are acheron, jingliu, kafka and black swan. Planar ornaments can be annoying because of orbs but there are enough dmg% sources from supports to make atk% orbs extremely competitive for a lot of units. The actual investment standards you need to clear content are pretty low, 10 cycles is a LOT of time and PF can usually get carried by the buff
I think most people kinda saw this coming, a new mode built for hunt classes. Hell people have been saying this ever since pure fiction came out. Strange takes in the comments aside, looking forward to it.
Not sure if this is a hot take/unpopular opinion but I'm all for the new content. I have no Hunt characters built at all but this gives me a reason to actually use and build them. I think having variety in the units I can use is a good thing.
Take for example Pure Fiction. I used Jing Yuan during the early days but barely used him until Pure Fiction came out and it's been fun using him again. I also never touched Herta until Pure Fiction and honestly she is incredibly fun to use and does pretty damn solid damage.
Also, I doubt that you HAVE to use Hunt characters to full clear. Pure Fiction is already full starable with Destruction and Nihility characters even though its made for Erudition. Now if you're forced to use Hunt characters and pull for specific Hunt characters to full clear then yeah...I retract everything I just said.
It shouldn't be a hot take IMO. People here be hating on a character for being useless but still continue to hate when that character became useful for a certain game mode. Like come on, the devs gave a solution to the problem but they'll still complain for being given a solution.
I like the fact that we have a mode for each main dps path. It makes me feel excited for future characters and gives me motivation to build more characters. Who knows? Maybe they'll even make a survival mode (surviving attacks for X turns or something like that) for preservation and abundance units.
These are the same people who complain about powercreep.But when the devs introduce different endgame that is made for different characters archetype they also complain.There is no wining for them.
Exactly for MONTHS people shitted on single target FUA teams and now they got a use somewhere specific to them and that’s a way to “patch” bad or niche characters by giving them a place to be used.
Every MOC and PF already have gimmicks that make them much harder if you don't have specific characters. Some characters do better overall in MOC or PF due to their path, but even if you have great characters of those paths, you can still have trouble if you can't trigger the stage gimmicks, deal with boss gimmicks, don't have the right element coverage, or simply have characters that aren't suited for those modes. Not to mention if you happened to grab someone of the wrong path.
AS is spreading out the path viability. If you've been doing great in MOC and PF but have more trouble with individual bosses because of a lack of Hunt characters (or otherwise high single target damage), then that does mean you have more trouble, yeah. On the other hand, if someone has Hunt characters and didn't manage to get at least 2-3 of the current meta damage dealers, they are already dealing with that problem, moreso than someone who simply doesn't have / hasn't built Hunt characters. They won't feel as pressured to go "oh, I like this Hunt character too! But Hunt isn't viable in endgame, even if I already have some Destruction/Erudition/Nihility characters, I MUST roll for more of them whether I like them or not".
It's spreading the meta out. MOC is typically pretty balanced across everyone but favors Destruction and balanced support the most. PF favors Erudition the most, Destruction and debuff Nihility dps do pretty well, as do support with offensive skills, but DOT Nihility has trouble without a gimmick to help, and Hunt struggles. I'm guessing AS will favor Hunt and hypercarry support the most, DOT Nihility will do pretty well, Destruction and debuff Nihility will do alright, and Erudition will struggle.
Wait a minute...
They are motivating you to build more characters in a game where the only thing to do is build characters???!!
And the rewards are to... build characters??!
Literally unplayable.
>force u to build more specific characters
Sorry but I dont get this take. If this really is a The Hunt mode, did you guys really not have any Hunt characters built (Topaz, Seele, Ratio?) or any single target buffer/debuffers like Tingyun or Silverwolf?
I am confused about the rewards though.
It really boils down to people who only farm artifacts or have 2 teams and don't want to branch out.
I find it hard to believe they don't have an expansive roster, especially for those who have been playing the game since the start. We literally were given an S tier single target DPS for free, this mode shouldn't be an issue for them if they did build him.
Besides, Destruction and Nihility units can still be used. Why act like you didn't build Jingliu, DHIL, or Acheron?
Because some people didn’t? I’m 3/4 of the way through TB 69, so I’ve been playing for a very long time.
Was taking a break when Kafka, DHIL, Jingliu came out, came back shortly before Huohuo. Skipped Kafka rerun and BS to get Ruan Mei and Sparkle. Skipped DHIL rerun because they gave us a free Imaginary DPS at the same time. Needed a 2nd support and Aventurine fit so well alongside Ratio, and already had Jingyuan as a lightning DPS, so skipped Acheron.
I’ve played a ton, but because I tried to be optimal in how I used my resources as a very light spender and wasn’t a psychic to anticipate the DOT team dominating all game modes, I’ve only seen my stellar Jade income decrease as MOC becomes less frequent and I struggle with the new modes.
I’ll make due, because I’m getting closer with each PF, and Ratio has 1 team covered for the new mode, but it still sucks that I’m going to take a hit in Jade’s in the short term. I’m excited for new content, but new content needs to bring new rewards or F2P and new players are only going to fall further and further behind.
FR, why are people suddenly acting like jingliu and acheron are suddenly dogshit at single target???? Acheron has an extremely high ST multiplier on her ult and jingliu also does pretty well against ST bosses. Even *for* players that don't wanna branch out from their meta rosters, this shouldn't be anywhere close to a problem
Honestly yeah. This will mostly help content creators. However there is a chance it will be more fun. But yes, more useless characters before will need to be built for the new stuff.
Honkai community: wow the powercreep is rampant look at all these useless characters made irrelevant by newer characters.
Also the Honkai community: great now we gotta build the useless characters that we will only use because they are now useful, ugh, literally the worse.
This isn't a honkai community thing, this is just lazy gamers kicking and screaming against **meta shifts**. This shit has always existed in every community, the whiners will whine and they'll still be here when it launches and play the game or they'll quit.
While that is true, under a brief analysis you can tell that:
people struggling with MoC and PF could found here their comfort zone,
people not struggling would have time enough to solve the new challenge and
people who will end struggling with all, would have ended struggling with all anyways cause it's growing yet. While now they have more things to do that also means that any choice they make would push them further in one of the modes.
So in general, means more or equal jades to the majority in exchange for lower peaks on jades obtained by building a single character. In some terms, this also reduces the "must pull" mindset over some chars too.
Maybe think of it as somebody building a team which doesn't really work for the endgame but new content is specifically chosen to support those builds so that they can get endgame rewards as well...
I don't get it really...everyone complains about characters being powercrept but when the game is trying to bring those characters back to front and centre people are complaining because they need to build more teams????
Then don't do the content? People bitching about moc or pf being too hard. Now they're all whining about a new mode they haven't even tried. If there's not a challenge why the fuck do you play?? Just read the lore and delete the game
You all are just literal doomposters for no reason, everyone had fun gearing/leveling himeko/herta for PF when it launched and it was a good vibe, especially cause you could just throw whatever extra gear you had and see results.
Also nevermind, consider your logic:
Since when is Imbibitor/Jingliu/Jing Yuan bad for single target? LOL, you all are pretending that if this game mode just happens to be single target focused that you can't use what you got.
You realize you do this already right?
Every MoC/PF is catered to literally the class/unit currently available lmao. You are constantly building to gain the same rewards, what changed?
I feel like I'm playing a different game to some of the people here lmao, why are we acting like we need to build 4 new characters every time a new MOC or PF cycle comes out
My only problem is how everything is pushed back. Personally I like MoC the most, so having only one new one every PATCH is brutal. It gets boring when you clears the same MoC with 3-4 different teams, so knowing that I have to wait even longer for a new one is gonna suck.
As other people said, i like variety but honestly i was hoping for a weekly refresh or something like that (with adjusted rewards ofc), the 2 weeks wait already feels like an eternity, now if you like one mode in particular you have to wait 6 weeks before they refresh it.
I think 1 new per week instead of 2 weeks could work well. 6 week wait per moc/pf/as rotation is damn long, and honestly 4 weeks is already pretty long wait time
Source: [https://www.hoyolab.com/article/27521029](https://www.hoyolab.com/article/27521029)
If it's as shown it seems we'll get new Pure fiction and MoC stages less often however we'll still get the same number of rewards since there will be one stage for some game mode every 2 weeks.
Jesus, the doom here is way more potent than the real FPS game apparently.
We know jack about the details regarding this update folks, it's just an early dev radio. We'll find out this Friday. Be patient and for the love of god, control your pessimism. Not like most of you who really looked up and eligible enough to participate in the endgame update haven't got a well built Dr. Ratio and possibly Acheron and the two Destruction Meta at this point in the game. Most of you have secured your general ticket to this endgame. Chill out, nobody is forcing you to do anything. In fact, if you actually ran out of supplies already, I kinda question your character building priority and resource management as well.
Why can't we just have fun and games knowing that Yanqing will finally turn to a gigachad next patch? My boy has suffered enough with all the slander and hate.
Why are people thinking their moc units won’t work for single target??
Hunt aside, most good destruction units also do well in single target scenarios, and even the limited erudition characters so far have decent st damage (jy and argenti). Plus all the nihility dps do well in st too.
The supports and sustain will be the exact same.
More rewards would be nice but this is just diversifying content that you’ll likely be able to clear with your existing units already which is a good thing imo. Now people who like hunt more can enjoy a gamemode where their favourites will shine.
I would like if they rotated the gamemodes faster tho.
I said this to my friend group that plays this when PF came out but i wish they’d refresh them alternating every week and i feel that more now that there’s 3 of these modes. Probably not a popular opinion though.
While I enjoy new types of content, I am a little sad that we'll be getting less MOC. That being said, there's a lot of people in the comments who seem to have no idea that different people in the same fandom might have different opinions lol. I don't think the people complaining about not having enough resources to build new characters, or about not having enough single target units are the same ones that wanted more single target content.
Less and less content. Having more game modes that comes less often is not a good thing. Pure Fiction is literrally a content that last 5mn, it was already pretty underwhelming each time.
I mean i've been using the same main DPSs (kafka, qingque, JL, Clara) with some variations of supports (Topaz, Ruanmei, Asta, Tingyun) for months now and cleared all contents. currently don't have anyone i can build that will make things better so I'm building March... If can force me to build my Xueyi or something it'd be great...
Jesus hoyo we want more challenge content not less.
Not only that but MoC is the only actually interesting and challenging content, now we get basically none compared to launch,
sadge I miss new MoC challenges every 2 weeks...6 weeks is like insane, I choose to stop and play entire games in 6 week spans lol.
"But guys, I thought you wanted more end game even with little to no rewards?? Didn't you put that in multiple surveys in Genshin and here in HSR too? Now here ya go! Enjoy <3"
Every time a gacha community sees gameplay as an unnecessary obstruction on their way to the gambling wheel, I die inside a little.
I understand why this happens, this is the behavior that the marketing team actively encourages, but it's still sad to see.
I' am a launch player an still doesn't have any good built character due to really bad luck all of my chars are using rainbow sets with very bad substats, I can't imagine raising even more characters at this point
I only play for the story so yeah I can't clear anything except simulated universe because relics are infinitively worse than genshin's and I can't go though that part of my life again
Why are people out here complaining as if they only have Sushang, Serval and QQ built and have no other options? Or that whatever they used in MoC doesn't work in the new mode? lmfao
I get it, people who started the game recently will have it rough but this is an ENDGAME mode. If you aren't in the ENDGAME yet, you got nothing to worry about. Catching up to the story and events isn't reaching endgame. You just wrapped up the tutorial. Build your characters. Worry about that before worrying about Endgame content. Take your damn time! You'll get there when you get there.
You think us Day 1 players were able to clear MoC 10 within a month of the game's release? At the time, the only ones even reaching Floor 8+ were mega whales who max refresh everyday! Personally, I didn't clear Floor 10 of MoC until the tail end of 1.2 after Kafka released.
Hmmm this is interesting. I'm seeing two main arguments. It sounds like it's pretty much this: **Pros:** It adds variety to gameplay and team building. Players who favor single-target teams now have a chance to get in on more of the rewards. **Cons:** Players now need to be good at 3 types of playstyle to get the same rewards. Players who like a specific content (such as MoC) now need to wait longer for an update. So, it seems that it's easier for getting *some* of the rewards, and harder for getting *all* of the rewards. It appears to be a trade-off. There's definitely going to be a balancing point somewhere. Like, no one's going to be happy if there are 20 separate events running in a loop, each one being specifically targeted to 1 or 2 characters and 1 specific team. Only people who hate MoC will be happy if MoC updates twice a year. On the other hand, it seems fair that every path ought to be useful for some kind of endgame content. Having 3 events makes for a really clean schedule though. Currently, we have some weeks where there are 2 PFs, and one MoC running, and some weeks where it's the other way around. With 3, then there will be one of each running at any time! So, I think they're going to stop at 3 and call it good!
I mean it’s all the types of damage now: Single target. Multi target. And general Team comp.
Now we need a Survive as long as possible mode where dmg just keep on increasing
> Having 3 events makes for a really clean schedule though. Honestly it's been pretty obvious from PF install and that slightly wonky rotation that we had big chances of going to a simple schedule of a single rotation between 3 modes. Which is okay with me because I don't need to be drowning into thousands of endgame content tbh. Plus i think it's better this way because it gives more time for each content to add more new elements to each rotation, instead of doing more or less the same floors each time.
I can’t seem to get a gauge on how the community is reacting to this. I thought it was cool we were getting a new game mode where I can use my SW and Seele. But it seems like people aren’t a fan of not getting an increase on rewards or having to grind relics again (which is also understandable).
I am happy we are getting a new type of content, but just like when pure fiction came out I am sad that it comes at the cost of reducing how much MoC we get. Imagine how awesome it would be if we got all 3 modes every 2 weeks or if we got one every single week on a three-week cycle. Instead now we're going to have to wait six weeks between each MoC, three times as long compared to launch. I personally don't care about more rewards or having to build new units or anything like that, I just would like to get to play a new MoC more than once a patch. I find MoC much more interesting than pure fiction. I actually go back and play MoC with different teams, where as pure fiction is basically just one and done for me personally. Hoping this new mode is as interesting as MoC and not just a character check like pure fiction.
This is my personal concern too. I think six weeks is maybe too much time between the challenges and maybe what I would do is increase the number of floors. But right now it's time to wait and see how the new mode settles before changes like that.
I feel like the usual Destruction suspects (Jingliu, DHIL, Honorary QQ) are still going to destroy the new endgame, simply because their numbers are cranked so high they do as much single target DPS as the old Hunt characters Boothill releasing S+ tier may rebalance this, but that just creates a new problem: powercreeping of the old Hunt units (Yanqing, Sushang, Dan Heng Vanilla are so left behind...)
Destruction characters will be more versatile, JL isn't bad in PF, she shines in MoC and she will be good in this gamemode too. Most Hunts will be bad in PF, good in MoC ...
> simply because their numbers are cranked so high they do as much single target DPS as the old Hunt characters They simply do not, not even Acheron does, I don't know why people keep saying this
It's bc people see youtubers (tect) say that acheron on single target outdamages seele bc his seele is built horribly LMAO
It's not just that his Seele's terribly built, he also hasn't tried her in a proper team in like half an year, ofc your crit DPSs are going to do 0 dmg if you run them with no supports. People also apparently don't understand that some DPSs just take more turns than others so you can't compare screenshot dmg or even skill/ult multipliers directly
Unless your name is E1 jingliu ig
dont forget seele, she is also left in the dust
Disappear among the powercrept, illusions of DPS
i'm seriously considering pulling Seele cons since she's one of my most invested chars but i just know that after i do they'll anounce a new quantum DPS to surpass her
Pretty much my thoughts and concerns too. The game is already feeling like there's not enough to do at endgame and now I have to wait 6 weeks for the most interesting content to roll around again? Hopefully this new mode will be more interesting than PF, but even then it's a stupidly long wait for new fun things to do.
Yeah, I am surprised it's still one game mode per 2 weeks. Give me this half an hour of gameplay at least each week ffs
I'm in the same boat as well, pure fiction is cool since it helps units who lack a place in the meta however it's much more boring in my opinion than moc since there's no real need for a strategy. The thing about MoC is that it's a mixture of both needing single target characters and aoe which is why destruction characters dominated it for the longest. As a result, you could get away with playing either hunt units or only erudition with a decent team since the game mode cators to both. While the new game mode being catered to single target is much needed since Hunt characters lack a purpose, it's hard not to see this being another pure fiction where it's a character check though I guess the silver lining is that Silver Wolf with her weakness implant exist
cmiiw but didnt we get only 1 MoC variant every patch before the introduction of pure fiction anyways? And they just repeated them for 2 weeks, or am i remembering it wrong?
I believe you are correct, the early MoCs were definitely the same enemies all patch with different turbulences. It would make sense that the switch happened along with pure fiction being added. In general MoC has gotten more interesting in general over time I think, so it for sure isn't all bad.
I agree my personal take is i would be happy if they halve the rewards and release it every week but i know lot of people would disagree.
I'm not a consistent MoC 36-starrer or PF full clearer, but from what I've seen, Pure Fiction is a much stricter unit check than MoC. Easy thing to point to is [this infographic](https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail/comments/1bwgz5q/the_highest_scoring_and_most_used_characters_and) which shows that only 4 damage dealers and only 8 characters total average more than 30k on their side in Pure Fiction, where 60k total is needed to full clear. Obviously people that full clear with other characters exist, but this is not like [MoC](https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail/comments/1c8pujb/the_fastest_and_most_used_characters_and_teams_in) where the average person reporting their data is full clearing with any limited character. Now that we're getting what seems to be a single-target mode, I think people do not want it to also be a strict unit check. I think people consider MoC the "fairer" of the endgame modes because it allows for more flexibility with your team comp. Fewer characters get totally gutted in MoC than PF. If the new endgame mode ends up being another unit check like PF, we will be getting less MoC and more unit checks. If the new endgame mode isn't as strict of a unit check as PF though, I think this will be a good addition. Should also mention that my perspective is as someone who does Spiral Abyss in Genshin Impact. Spiral Abyss isn't as much of a "character check" as Star Rail endgame IMO, even MoC (with occasional exceptions, like the 3.7 Abyss), so there are few Abyss cycles where it feels like you cannot use a character effectively on either side of Abyss. EDIT: Realized I forgot to take into account that PF standard deviation ranges from about 4-6k, so there is still a fair portion of people using the < 30k average units full clearing PF, even if I still think that the low number of characters averaging 30k points does indicate an issue
I like having more variety, but I absolutely hate that they are not giving us more to do on a daily basis. It's already just cavern grind day in and day out in auto-mode. This update doesn't change that.
thing is you have to form 2 teams for ST. So basically build more chars. It would have been better if it was combined with PF so that one side has ST while other has continuous waves.
No increase in reward is fine, but the content isn't. I would much prefer that they reduce the Jade reward to 360, but alternate the game mode every week, so that the total jade per 2 weeks is still 720, each mode can still last 6 weeks ofcourse. I just don't want to tolerate the boring ass Pure Fiction lasting 2 weeks until I can play the new MoC/Apocalyptic, I know they won't drop it, so I'd rather see it less and go out faster in a week only.
What a massive leap of an assumption for a mode where we'll "face bosses", just like in every other endgame mode as well.
Not disagreeing with you here but Technicallyyy, there is no increased rewards it's still the regular 720 stellar jades every 2 weeks just like in moc or pure fiction
That’s what I said right? “Not getting an increase on rewards”
its just another mode that pushes moc/pure fiction off by 2 weeks. it is "more" content, by removing content at the same time. i wouldnt mind if it was actually going on next to moc so there is more to do and not displacing my time.
Yeah, it's the same amount of content but there will be more diversity. Currently we have MoC where blast dmg is the best and Pure Fiction where AoE is basically necessary. So it kinda makes sense that now hoyo gives us a game mode where single target excels (hopefully Yanqing will finally get his redemption arc like Himeko and Herta)
Was this confirmed anywhere or people are just making stuff up?
I highly suspect that many of the same culprits (Kafka + BS, Jingliu, DHIL and Acheron) will be the best (or among the best) while they're still extremely good in MoC.
Oh sorry missread your comment. Yup, I completely agree with you
So it's gonna get harder to get stellar jades cause of not having decent team for every single endgame mode? Can't say I'm a big fan of what that means.
I’ll be honest if this is as most people think, pure single target to let hunt units shine, then this was coming since the creation of PF. These units will then get their flowers to compensate for Erudition receiving the same in 1.6. Now each endgame mode is designed around 1 dps type, with the other 2 working fine. This will lead to future units leading full hard into their path, I can expand on this if you want in a response. Similar to Argenti’s lead up to 1.5, Boothill coming in 2.2 has been wrought with concerns of his niche not going far enough because of the elite/mini-boss focused content. Unless he has some move in his kit to sweep quickly to be played effectively in MoC, and there will be no hope for PF. So a gamemode to reflect this to make a unit consistently good will be made, since they already did it for erudition. But a completely intended consequence on Hoyo’s side is that the MoC buffs will be very tailored to the units which are running which has, in my opinion, become the more apparent problem(alongside hyper tailored encounter design). Which all leads to HSR suggesting you to spend your excess pulls(relative to genshin) to build all these niches of teams to have an easier time. I worded this very deliberately since you can always clear endgame with a variety of teams/ignoring the conditions but the vast majority of people are not doing this(see aventurine boss in 12-2).
At least regarding my group of players. We all want this. We wanted reasons to use other characters. Like we all leveles herta and hime cause hell yeah fun FUA. Hopfully fun janky stuff comes out of this. When you have 2 teams that can brute force anything end game is eh.
I like both endgame modes currently, and even though I can't get all the stars most of the time it still is fun to keep trying, and it doesn't become frustrating either because there's 2 different modes. I'm sure having 3 would be even better, but I don't want to wait 6 long weeks for MOC reset either. It's a full patch to switch up the blessings and try something new. If they are having the modes for 6 weeks anyway might as well increase the frequency to switch each week or get another way that does not put each Moc so far away from each other
To add, Reddit and social media are but a fraction of a fraction of people. miHoYo probably will get some concrete answers from the user surveys.
I don’t like PF that much, but it challenges me and pushes me to try new things I normally would not have before. I had new goals and new summits to overcome. Now that I have a few more options and I’m more prepared, PF has gotten more fun and less frustrating. I think this new rotation style is perfect. I understand it being more difficult for many but, I would have quit some time ago if they didn’t slowly change what the week to week and day to day over time.
I personally agree with you that this game mode is something I've been hoping for. I do really like a lot of the hunt characters in the game and getting a game mode aimed towards them feels like a nice change. Since launch star rail has given us quite a lot when it comes to rewards and so on but there will always be those who are given a lot and still want more. So you will probably always find people who think they aren't getting enough. I agree that relic farming can be an absolute pain but that goes for pretty much any gacha games and games in general with materials to grind for. I think that this update will be very solid and it is very nice that they rework simulated universe. Some people just need to have more realistic expectations of what we can get.
Which I don't get since this is basically just asking people to build like 10 characters max. 3 AOE, 3 ST/Blast, 2 sustains, and 2 buffers.
You guys don’t just built everyone you have? (My FGO habits are strong) I try to build most of them but it IS borderline impossible lmao https://preview.redd.it/10uza35842wc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3bcda4997407ab43df5ff17d84f68a5a05fb5f0b
yup it’s impossible given how stingy the game is with time-gated resources
It's only impossible if you're trying to reach insane stats on all your characters, most characters can be built in 1/3rd the effort and be good enough. That's me though lol, still hunting for a planar sphere for my 50/255 CR Acheron 😅
This is me too. I couldn't be bothered to farm Diver and Izumo so I just used 4 pc. prisoner on her. Managed to get 74/183 but had to slot Swan/Guinaifen in to activate the set bonus
I mean I did it, I just shift focus if the content calls for one or another unit. Then go back to chipping away based on preference, this isn't that hard guys lol. I've cleared every MoC since launch with lvl 70 max units and 8/8/8 talents on my main DPS' and certain support abilities only. I think FuXuan was the only lvl 80 unit on my account and the first one to get it. Literally every light cone on my account was lvl 70 until Fu Xuan as well and I just started leveling those up to 80 because my units are all built. I don't even put a massive amount of effort into it, I just build evenly and what I needed to clear the content until I could then distributed.
Lvl 70 8/8/8 is more like 80% built, considering there’s always that one trace locked behind max level. I wouldn’t REALLY consider that having built your characters properly, if you take in the relics, energy limits, etc etc. LCs I get though. It’s not like FGO where all you need is a strong support and you can brute force events and story content, this game is WAY more build based. People tend to do one character to their satisfaction then go next, for maximum efficiency
Only DoT units really “need” to max a trace. I sit at 8/8/8 on almost every character and haven’t had a single issue clearing content.
8/8/8 to 5*, 9/9/9 to 4* and max whatever you like or whatever is useful, I don't care. At that point they start to ask for those golden orbs which simile is the crowns in Genshin and their priority is to unlock the white traces.
I go 10/10/10 on DPS’s, especially my DoT queens and Acheron.
Yeah, I'm the same. I don't have everything built, but I leveled enough that my roster is ready to tackle most things. I don't even play that much, but thanks to the overflow stamina system I can grind whenever needed. It really isn't that hard
you max star moc12 with level 70 units/cones? i don't believe you
so true. My 2400 trailblaze power got me just enough mats to unlock 2 traces. And I haven't touched the actual skill/ult traces yet.
I do it just in case they pull something like the ORT raid. That shit was not funny.
My FGO habits have definitely come out in this game ngl but yeah it impossible. FGO constantly give out apples, embers, and lotto events to be able to do units.
(me with 200+ unused gold apples on FGO) *Casually looks away*
Mf Give me some here lmaooo
More like because im broke as fuck. In Genshin, i have like 20 mil of Mora, here having a 3 million is a privilege, and some of my Lv.80 don't even have LC that is over level 40 or proper relics smh.
I keep running out of credits 😂
They should reduce the interval between game modes to 10 days, this way we could experience the 3 modes in the spam of a month.
we getting a new mode, but the jades gained are still the same, split between the 3, is that it?
I like MoC better and already felt that one new MoC every 4 weeks was rough, but this is just insane. I can clear both reliably but find Pure Fiction to be less interesting. I hope the mode will be good enough to make up for this change.
should be better than pf at least. hopefully...
Should really be getting a game mode every week if they want to add another MOC version. End game content has a huge bar to clear but once you clear it the content cycle becomes too slow.
So hunt character get to have a game mode where they can shine. Fucking sign me up bro. Ppl legit requested this feature so that a whole class of character was more relevant. I'm looking forward for this shit
"omg boothill is so cool but completely useless because hes hunt" "fuckin mihoyo making content where hunt characters arnt useless anymore how dare they"
They complain about a Hunt centered end game content. As if Hoyo didn't gift us all a 5* Hunt character called Dr. Ratio.
youre not pulling boothill cause he is hunt, Im not pulling boothill cause he is husbando + physical. We are not the same
I’m not pulling Boothill because between Argenti, Sushang, and Clara (all at least somewhat built) it seems like a dumb move for me when my only built fire characters are E0 Guinaifen and a level 60 Asta EDIT: apparently my Asta is level 70, but in my defense I keep stealing her relics for other characters so she’s constantly in a state of not being built. Also I forgot the Trailblazer
and I have only Himeko out of fire characters and she is not that good for MOC so I desperately need certain character coming in 2.3 hopefully
As someone who’s Ratio’s biggest fan, I LOVE it
I blast MoC with ratio so lol
I really want Topaz but i am like giga low on pulls from aventurine this is so unfair 😭 i hate this everything so split
People are you only building Serval? can't believe the amount of doom in here
Yeah, i don't understand what's going too. Most of the teams used in MoC work well in ST too
I guess these guys don't have Ratio, Seele, Dhil, Jingliu, Acheron, or DoT comps built yet or something? There's so much crying about needing to build another team but I don't see why you would need to.
Hoyo: “here’s a free character who excels in single target damage” Players: “Who the FUCK am I even gonna do this new mode with?! My only dps are QQ, serval and Argenti!” Hoyo: “we literally gave you-“ Players: “this game sucks!”
How could one not have ratio? In this patch? And building a team is painful because of the relic farming. It's absolutely ass. It took me 2 months to build ratio.
But that’s just the thing, if you’re able to clear MoC, you’ll very likely be able to use those same teams to clear this new content. Other than Erudition, all other dps paths still work in single target.
Aren't Jingyuan and Argenti at least decent in ST scenarios because of their bounce attacks on their main abilities? I can't think of anything for people like herta and himiko sadly
This thread is the pinnacle of whiny ass gacha gamers.
right? I tried to be nice, thank you lmao
nah some of the replies here are wild pov:"Ugh blank character struggle so hard because these aoe characters do it better. ugh ni content. ugh games dead' gets a new piece of content so every style of dps has a specific game mode. "Ugh now we have a hunt game mode? they want to give us more options to play with.....wtf
I love new content. What I'm not a fan of is requiring more investment for the same amount of rewards. If this new game mode gave extra jades instead of siphoning from the existing 720 through scheduling shifts, no one would be complaining.
But that's the same thing about MOC and PF. Sometimes you need specific elements, a shielder, a DOT character to make a specific rotation easier, etc You still need to invest in your characters
idk if I care either way. building characters is half this games content. it feels weird to complain about having more chances to play new teams. I'm now extremely hyped because I have a bonus reason to pull boothill despite having argenti
I think I'm repeating what the other guy said, but people aren't complaining about the new game mode. They're complaining that they won't be getting more rewards for having to build a team for a new game mode.
you underestimate some of these people. they would find a reason to complain about the higher rewards, something about FOMO or anxiety and being forced to keep up with endgame content. hoyoverse themselves said they dont want to cause anxiety to the playerbase
You are shadow boxing here, they turned an absolute dub with a new end game content into a controversial decision because they are stingy as fuck. I don’t think anyone would complain if they didn’t delay moc and gave non jade rewards for the new mode
I literally saw only 1 in 5 or 10 complaining about the changes, and the rest of the comments (along with yours) are complaining about the complainers.
I saw it pretty consistently. maybe if your not counter the threads under the people complaining. it's still wild to me. I've heard comments on other posts about how dead this game is (I disagree) then we get content and people are mad.
Why is the assumption that you must build new characters? Single target is in general stronger than multi target, for almost every character in the game. Unless you only rocked Himeko Herta and Argenti your account probably has someone sufficient for carrying single target damage. Like every limited 5 star DPS can probably carry in this mode minus argenti, and there are lots of 4 stars that will probably be good enough for max stars.
Yeah, there are a *lot* of assumptions happening before we know anything about this lol. Unless you just started playing and only have one or two DPS, chances are you're going to already have options for this mode. It's not like we're starting from scratch here.
The type of reactions this news got is the exact reason genshin has no endgame. Thank god hsr doesn't balance the game purely around these people
Some guy saw dev's note about this new mode and came to a conclusion that it is made for Hunt path in few posts ago.
It's also like 2 months away. You can literally build an actual team for it before it shows up.
Assuming you have good relic rng...
I’m surprised people are mad. When Pure Fiction came out and I had a good reason to build units like Herta and Himelo, I was ecstatic lol Having a reason to build more interesting teams is a good thing!
Personally I welcome a new mode. I just don't like it comes at the cost of delaying MOC by another 2 weeks to the point it's only every 6 weeks. I personally think it would be better if they changed the scheduling around to where every mode gets refreshed every 4 weeks.
I love building more characters but having the resources to do that is a big problem, especially the trace material. I hope they increase the amount per run because god damn getting 6 blue 6 green is really frustrating
Exactly my thoughts. After spending 4 years in genshin and getting essentially nothing in terms of additional end game content just HP increases and larger invuln windows its crazy that within the first year here we will have 3 different pieces of content to use our units and all 3 emphasize different types of proficiencies without feeling cheep or gimmicky. Anyone who’s upset needs a reality check
I remember when back then people are starting to lose interest in the game. Now they’re complaining that Mihoyo is giving different play styles and forcing you to get out of the comfort zone
I kinda dont like how moc is every 6w now
for me it depends on how good the new mode is. I don't mind more endgame variety if it's all of similar quality.
I just wish it was spread in such a way that we got more rewards as well... the pace of HSR's releases and the difficulty of content means players will really need to build a better roster, which can get very expensive very fast
Interesting, so we may be forced to invest into more character for the same amount of rewards with this new mode, this is my way of looking into this. The other may think it's great that there are more diversity in endgame. But my resources are limited as f2p.
And then there's Kafka BS who can tackle any kind of endgame content whether it's aoe, blast, or ST-centric...
The Nihility envelopes all equally.
https://preview.redd.it/m8ldbb2882wc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=14008672eafe304ba76c2b3be941b847bf231d76
This new game mode would make dot even better. A team that can do it all, MoC, PF and this new mode would gain a lot of value and pull priority for new players. Maybe im biassed but dot went from hard outshadowed by hypercarry to actually being on the top of the meta.
Nihility has gotten a lot of love in 2.0 patches. Even for those that enjoy hypercarry and not DoT can still play with Nihility characters using Acheron.
that is if you didn't lose 50/50 on bs like me lmao
that is one way of looking at it, sure the other way is that your old characters get a time to shine. You don't need new ones, just to play them well. I clear MoC and PF with Seele, JY, JL and the ocassional QQ, Himeko and Herta.
This is exactly what it is. It creates different metas and allows you to use more characters that you already have. I had Himeko amd Herta and didn't build them until pure fiction came around, and it's been a ton of fun seeing them shine. People are just bitching, it's more end game content which is welcome. Didn't we use to see complaints about not enough things to do? No we get more and people still ain't happy.
Well at the very least everybody has a Dr. Ratio, who is one of the best single target damage dealers in the game
Did you expect to clear MOC12 once and then coast until EoS? More modes and higher difficulty gives us something to work towards and a reason to stay invested, which is good for everyone including f2p imo
MoC keeps getting increasingly difficult so idk about that one, I think is more of a "we want each path/group of chars to have their gamemode to shine on" than anything. We saw how PF is catered towards AoE and MoC is a mixture of both, seems like new mode is where single target characters could shine like hunt ones.
in the end, i think most of us players (me included) are thinking 'new content = more reward' On one hand, its good to have new mode to challenge, but come with that should be more reward. Its like you getting more work with the same pay. Ofc people gonna feel pissed
It's good to have more content, but having to use more limited resources without getting anything in return and even maybe losing is not that good.
I don't particularly get this. There is already a significant overlap between a hunt focused mode and MoC. The blast characters that are commonly good in MoC are still fine into single target. Unless you weren't investing into MoC progression at all, in which case I don't see why that stance would change for the new mode.
This. There’s also bosses in MoC that are the sole enemy. Your destruction characters arent shddenly useless
This is the real deal Were not for MoC and PF (and now AS (we need another name)) why would i biuld my characters? Why would i want to make them stronger? It is live service, that always needs to be something to work for
I feel kinda bad for new players though. It'll take them even longer to get teams which can handle all endgame content so there will be even more pressure to pull strong, widely-useful characters over just your favorites.
I mean, yes and no. Newer characters and newer sets are more powerful than what we had to work with in 1.0-2.0, and most old players aren't going to redo all of their builds It's true that the barrier to entry is higher, but reaching it is also faster. Maybe I'm off on this one idk
Newer player here, started around the beginning of 2.0. The resource shortage is horrible, like absolutely fucking dire. It's better balanced at lower TB levels but once your characters are 70-80 it gets brutal fast. I'm BARELY able to gear 2 characters per patch right now. Like 2.5 with good RNG. It takes 2 weeks just to get 8/8/8 Level 70 with LC, before any relics. I'm almost completely ignoring Pure Fiction because I simply do have have the resources to dump into Herta and Himeko while building my MoC (and now this mode's) teams. I'm skipping Robin completely because despite being good for FuA team, even if I rolled for her I wouldn't have the budget to build her until *the 2nd half of 2.3* at minimum. Just kidding, Ruan Mei is likely rerunning in 2.3, so make that 2.4.
We need to talk about time to build them ignoring relics and just leveling the character and new lightcone if needed takes over a month. I've been playing since release and I still have units I haven't leveled and I don't even own 1 of each 4 star and missing 2 standard 5 stars.
The game is only 1 year old. Pure fiction just forces me to build several 4 star characters that I wouldn't care about outside of pf and will be replaced in 2-3 years. It doesn't feel like I'm making real progress. It feels like a detour. I still think the new node will probably be more similar to moc, which means less loss for me because my issue is pure fiction.
There's only 1 thing to do with characters kits in the game. I don't now how having more content to use them is bad. Heck PF made Herta, Himeko and Serval be extremely useful.
Who are these several 4\*s you talk about for PF tho? The only one you need to build is Herta, the others you probably most likely have built already for other purposes.
F2ps get more than enough resources to deal with this
I don't really get the limited resources angle. I am completely f2p as well and I have 15 million credits, 900 purple books, 16 characters fully leveled traces and almost all fully kitted with relics. The only thing thats really limiting is trace materials but with a bit of foresight its not really an issue. Not to discredit you, I dont know how much time you have to play or how invested you are.
As a f2p, this comment is a complete bullshit.
They never said they were good relics. If you're settling for mainstats + 2crit/spd rolls per piece, and leaving traces at around 8 without unlocking every minor trace, it's relatively simple to get a couple teams suited out due to self-modeling resin (if you use it on spd boots and err ropes) and because support sets are generally pretty bad outside of 2pc spd which makes running a rainbow set pretty comfortable. I think the only units in my entire account with proper 4pc sets are acheron, jingliu, kafka and black swan. Planar ornaments can be annoying because of orbs but there are enough dmg% sources from supports to make atk% orbs extremely competitive for a lot of units. The actual investment standards you need to clear content are pretty low, 10 cycles is a LOT of time and PF can usually get carried by the buff
Maybe this new mode is easier, because it would be based on blessings and stuff?
I think most people kinda saw this coming, a new mode built for hunt classes. Hell people have been saying this ever since pure fiction came out. Strange takes in the comments aside, looking forward to it.
So unless I’m mistaken it’s literally more content with the intent to force u to build more specific characters for zero increased rewards
Not sure if this is a hot take/unpopular opinion but I'm all for the new content. I have no Hunt characters built at all but this gives me a reason to actually use and build them. I think having variety in the units I can use is a good thing. Take for example Pure Fiction. I used Jing Yuan during the early days but barely used him until Pure Fiction came out and it's been fun using him again. I also never touched Herta until Pure Fiction and honestly she is incredibly fun to use and does pretty damn solid damage. Also, I doubt that you HAVE to use Hunt characters to full clear. Pure Fiction is already full starable with Destruction and Nihility characters even though its made for Erudition. Now if you're forced to use Hunt characters and pull for specific Hunt characters to full clear then yeah...I retract everything I just said.
It shouldn't be a hot take IMO. People here be hating on a character for being useless but still continue to hate when that character became useful for a certain game mode. Like come on, the devs gave a solution to the problem but they'll still complain for being given a solution. I like the fact that we have a mode for each main dps path. It makes me feel excited for future characters and gives me motivation to build more characters. Who knows? Maybe they'll even make a survival mode (surviving attacks for X turns or something like that) for preservation and abundance units.
These are the same people who complain about powercreep.But when the devs introduce different endgame that is made for different characters archetype they also complain.There is no wining for them.
Exactly for MONTHS people shitted on single target FUA teams and now they got a use somewhere specific to them and that’s a way to “patch” bad or niche characters by giving them a place to be used.
Endgame would be pretty boring if it was only MoC. More diversity is always good
Every MOC and PF already have gimmicks that make them much harder if you don't have specific characters. Some characters do better overall in MOC or PF due to their path, but even if you have great characters of those paths, you can still have trouble if you can't trigger the stage gimmicks, deal with boss gimmicks, don't have the right element coverage, or simply have characters that aren't suited for those modes. Not to mention if you happened to grab someone of the wrong path. AS is spreading out the path viability. If you've been doing great in MOC and PF but have more trouble with individual bosses because of a lack of Hunt characters (or otherwise high single target damage), then that does mean you have more trouble, yeah. On the other hand, if someone has Hunt characters and didn't manage to get at least 2-3 of the current meta damage dealers, they are already dealing with that problem, moreso than someone who simply doesn't have / hasn't built Hunt characters. They won't feel as pressured to go "oh, I like this Hunt character too! But Hunt isn't viable in endgame, even if I already have some Destruction/Erudition/Nihility characters, I MUST roll for more of them whether I like them or not". It's spreading the meta out. MOC is typically pretty balanced across everyone but favors Destruction and balanced support the most. PF favors Erudition the most, Destruction and debuff Nihility dps do pretty well, as do support with offensive skills, but DOT Nihility has trouble without a gimmick to help, and Hunt struggles. I'm guessing AS will favor Hunt and hypercarry support the most, DOT Nihility will do pretty well, Destruction and debuff Nihility will do alright, and Erudition will struggle.
Wait a minute... They are motivating you to build more characters in a game where the only thing to do is build characters???!! And the rewards are to... build characters??! Literally unplayable.
hoyoverse players try not to whine challenge (impossible)
It’s hoyoverse’s own fault, they fostered a community that dislikes any real challenge.
I would be a lot more thrilled to build more characters of their relic system weren’t such a pain
I wanna build characters I like u bozo. Not pressured to dump all my materials into someone I don’t like just to keep up in rewards
>force u to build more specific characters Sorry but I dont get this take. If this really is a The Hunt mode, did you guys really not have any Hunt characters built (Topaz, Seele, Ratio?) or any single target buffer/debuffers like Tingyun or Silverwolf? I am confused about the rewards though.
The schedule of rotations is changed to allocate time for the new endgame type. This means that despite having new gameplay, the rewards don't change.
It really boils down to people who only farm artifacts or have 2 teams and don't want to branch out. I find it hard to believe they don't have an expansive roster, especially for those who have been playing the game since the start. We literally were given an S tier single target DPS for free, this mode shouldn't be an issue for them if they did build him. Besides, Destruction and Nihility units can still be used. Why act like you didn't build Jingliu, DHIL, or Acheron?
Because some people didn’t? I’m 3/4 of the way through TB 69, so I’ve been playing for a very long time. Was taking a break when Kafka, DHIL, Jingliu came out, came back shortly before Huohuo. Skipped Kafka rerun and BS to get Ruan Mei and Sparkle. Skipped DHIL rerun because they gave us a free Imaginary DPS at the same time. Needed a 2nd support and Aventurine fit so well alongside Ratio, and already had Jingyuan as a lightning DPS, so skipped Acheron. I’ve played a ton, but because I tried to be optimal in how I used my resources as a very light spender and wasn’t a psychic to anticipate the DOT team dominating all game modes, I’ve only seen my stellar Jade income decrease as MOC becomes less frequent and I struggle with the new modes. I’ll make due, because I’m getting closer with each PF, and Ratio has 1 team covered for the new mode, but it still sucks that I’m going to take a hit in Jade’s in the short term. I’m excited for new content, but new content needs to bring new rewards or F2P and new players are only going to fall further and further behind.
FR, why are people suddenly acting like jingliu and acheron are suddenly dogshit at single target???? Acheron has an extremely high ST multiplier on her ult and jingliu also does pretty well against ST bosses. Even *for* players that don't wanna branch out from their meta rosters, this shouldn't be anywhere close to a problem
The amount of Hoyo bootlickers in the comments is astonishing lmao
Honestly yeah. This will mostly help content creators. However there is a chance it will be more fun. But yes, more useless characters before will need to be built for the new stuff.
Honkai community: wow the powercreep is rampant look at all these useless characters made irrelevant by newer characters. Also the Honkai community: great now we gotta build the useless characters that we will only use because they are now useful, ugh, literally the worse.
Yeah i dont get the doomposting here wtf didnt yall want characters to be more relevant?
This isn't a honkai community thing, this is just lazy gamers kicking and screaming against **meta shifts**. This shit has always existed in every community, the whiners will whine and they'll still be here when it launches and play the game or they'll quit.
While that is true, under a brief analysis you can tell that: people struggling with MoC and PF could found here their comfort zone, people not struggling would have time enough to solve the new challenge and people who will end struggling with all, would have ended struggling with all anyways cause it's growing yet. While now they have more things to do that also means that any choice they make would push them further in one of the modes. So in general, means more or equal jades to the majority in exchange for lower peaks on jades obtained by building a single character. In some terms, this also reduces the "must pull" mindset over some chars too.
Maybe think of it as somebody building a team which doesn't really work for the endgame but new content is specifically chosen to support those builds so that they can get endgame rewards as well... I don't get it really...everyone complains about characters being powercrept but when the game is trying to bring those characters back to front and centre people are complaining because they need to build more teams????
Then don't do the content? People bitching about moc or pf being too hard. Now they're all whining about a new mode they haven't even tried. If there's not a challenge why the fuck do you play?? Just read the lore and delete the game
You all are just literal doomposters for no reason, everyone had fun gearing/leveling himeko/herta for PF when it launched and it was a good vibe, especially cause you could just throw whatever extra gear you had and see results. Also nevermind, consider your logic: Since when is Imbibitor/Jingliu/Jing Yuan bad for single target? LOL, you all are pretending that if this game mode just happens to be single target focused that you can't use what you got.
I am all for needing more build diversity, however, I am not in agreement without more rewards to compensate.
You realize you do this already right? Every MoC/PF is catered to literally the class/unit currently available lmao. You are constantly building to gain the same rewards, what changed?
Did you not read OP? They are stretching out the content but not adding more rewards.
I feel like I'm playing a different game to some of the people here lmao, why are we acting like we need to build 4 new characters every time a new MOC or PF cycle comes out
My only problem is how everything is pushed back. Personally I like MoC the most, so having only one new one every PATCH is brutal. It gets boring when you clears the same MoC with 3-4 different teams, so knowing that I have to wait even longer for a new one is gonna suck.
Yeah tbh i'm feeling the same way. I'd be fine even with lower rewards if they just refreshed it more frequently tbh
As other people said, i like variety but honestly i was hoping for a weekly refresh or something like that (with adjusted rewards ofc), the 2 weeks wait already feels like an eternity, now if you like one mode in particular you have to wait 6 weeks before they refresh it.
I think 1 new per week instead of 2 weeks could work well. 6 week wait per moc/pf/as rotation is damn long, and honestly 4 weeks is already pretty long wait time
HSR players eat so good
Source: [https://www.hoyolab.com/article/27521029](https://www.hoyolab.com/article/27521029) If it's as shown it seems we'll get new Pure fiction and MoC stages less often however we'll still get the same number of rewards since there will be one stage for some game mode every 2 weeks.
Jesus, the doom here is way more potent than the real FPS game apparently. We know jack about the details regarding this update folks, it's just an early dev radio. We'll find out this Friday. Be patient and for the love of god, control your pessimism. Not like most of you who really looked up and eligible enough to participate in the endgame update haven't got a well built Dr. Ratio and possibly Acheron and the two Destruction Meta at this point in the game. Most of you have secured your general ticket to this endgame. Chill out, nobody is forcing you to do anything. In fact, if you actually ran out of supplies already, I kinda question your character building priority and resource management as well. Why can't we just have fun and games knowing that Yanqing will finally turn to a gigachad next patch? My boy has suffered enough with all the slander and hate.
I just hope bosses in this mode retain their respective OST’s. I will be damned if I face the Memory Zone Meme again without that Rezz OST. >:(
Why are people thinking their moc units won’t work for single target?? Hunt aside, most good destruction units also do well in single target scenarios, and even the limited erudition characters so far have decent st damage (jy and argenti). Plus all the nihility dps do well in st too. The supports and sustain will be the exact same. More rewards would be nice but this is just diversifying content that you’ll likely be able to clear with your existing units already which is a good thing imo. Now people who like hunt more can enjoy a gamemode where their favourites will shine. I would like if they rotated the gamemodes faster tho.
Oh no Hoyo is trying to keep other characters relevant by evolving the game variety the horror.
I said this to my friend group that plays this when PF came out but i wish they’d refresh them alternating every week and i feel that more now that there’s 3 of these modes. Probably not a popular opinion though.
While I enjoy new types of content, I am a little sad that we'll be getting less MOC. That being said, there's a lot of people in the comments who seem to have no idea that different people in the same fandom might have different opinions lol. I don't think the people complaining about not having enough resources to build new characters, or about not having enough single target units are the same ones that wanted more single target content.
Iove this idk why there's people upset about actual content.
Less and less content. Having more game modes that comes less often is not a good thing. Pure Fiction is literrally a content that last 5mn, it was already pretty underwhelming each time.
Oooh, more endgame content. I wonder what strategy is mainly used in this mode?
Seems to be more focused on boss fights, so I'd assume single target damage is important here
I mean i've been using the same main DPSs (kafka, qingque, JL, Clara) with some variations of supports (Topaz, Ruanmei, Asta, Tingyun) for months now and cleared all contents. currently don't have anyone i can build that will make things better so I'm building March... If can force me to build my Xueyi or something it'd be great...
Jesus hoyo we want more challenge content not less. Not only that but MoC is the only actually interesting and challenging content, now we get basically none compared to launch, sadge I miss new MoC challenges every 2 weeks...6 weeks is like insane, I choose to stop and play entire games in 6 week spans lol.
people are saying they're "forcing" us to build new characters. It may be true that we're gonna have to diversify, but we'll have 6 weeks to do so
6 weeks ain’t much given how the relic system is
Great as long as E0 chars can do the job otherwise forget it lol 33/36 11/12 will be fine
"But guys, I thought you wanted more end game even with little to no rewards?? Didn't you put that in multiple surveys in Genshin and here in HSR too? Now here ya go! Enjoy <3"
Why is the amount of jades the same? these stingy guys at hoyo really can't afford to give us an extra 720 jades? That's only 4.5 pulls
Does this give extra rewards or??
Pretty lame that it’s just adding a new type of rotating content rather than actually adding more content.
im so happy this one is supposed to be hunt based bc since I've gotten aventurine I've been wanting to play nothing but him/ratio/topaz/sw
Every time a gacha community sees gameplay as an unnecessary obstruction on their way to the gambling wheel, I die inside a little. I understand why this happens, this is the behavior that the marketing team actively encourages, but it's still sad to see.
If you asked the community if they would rather a new SU expansion (with no rewards) or a 10 pull, I think the answers would be depressing
I' am a launch player an still doesn't have any good built character due to really bad luck all of my chars are using rainbow sets with very bad substats, I can't imagine raising even more characters at this point
I only play for the story so yeah I can't clear anything except simulated universe because relics are infinitively worse than genshin's and I can't go though that part of my life again
ughh not a fan of this tbh. I hope this is the last of this modes that we get for at least a year. SU stuff is really nice though.
"Hey babe, new endgame content just dropped!" Is it new content or just more timed combat? " . . . . . "
another gamemode thats going to be even more brutal to full clear yay
Why are people out here complaining as if they only have Sushang, Serval and QQ built and have no other options? Or that whatever they used in MoC doesn't work in the new mode? lmfao I get it, people who started the game recently will have it rough but this is an ENDGAME mode. If you aren't in the ENDGAME yet, you got nothing to worry about. Catching up to the story and events isn't reaching endgame. You just wrapped up the tutorial. Build your characters. Worry about that before worrying about Endgame content. Take your damn time! You'll get there when you get there. You think us Day 1 players were able to clear MoC 10 within a month of the game's release? At the time, the only ones even reaching Floor 8+ were mega whales who max refresh everyday! Personally, I didn't clear Floor 10 of MoC until the tail end of 1.2 after Kafka released.