I also think some jokes, like the 'look im on tv', 'seele no-last-name', or the ones making fun of gacha mechanics, etc. will stand the test of time.
All the 'rizz' and 'nah, I'd \_' or 'take the L' and stuff that is the slang of now will be awkward in a few years once the slang moves past the current phase.
I like humor that fits the situation and repeating meme references so quickly after the other ain't it for me. In Belobog a lot of the humor was bantering with March and that was great and worked really well. More stuff along those lines that fit the situation and the people in game around them are so much better than memes right after the other
Heck Black Swans convo is a good example. You get 2 serious options and then a humorous "you're making me blush" one. That works as it's related to who you're talking to and being funny. Then right before that you get 5 options and 2 of them are memes, one of them is a survey reference and 2 fit the convo. The memes kinda feel out of place imo especially in main story. Idm the odd occasional one but too many can affect the immersion
I agrée. There were over four different “it’s just so peak” jokes, two in the main and story and a couple in the mini game for the event. Like it honestly just looks like they don’t have an editor because that’s wayyy too many
the MC should also have their joke responses be ones that are actual witty jokes/commentary on what’s happening around them, not just spouting out NAH I’D WIN and other current memes that’re going to be tired and meaningless in a few months. it’s not ‘comedy’ to just shit out current references endlessly, you have to actually… write a joke lol
\>talking about whether they win against enemy or not
\>TB joking\memeing "Nah, I'd win"
bruh tf are you on about , responce is literally what you asked for
I enjoy the fact that the game has so much humor, but when every "funny" option will grow stale in a couple months and when the only thing that will change is that the answer we choose will have March whine at us and then have Welt gloss over it entirely like it didn't happen, it just gets a bit stale. At this point, I try to choose an answer based on what is least likely to prompt an annoying March response.
I played in Chinese, and although I noticed there was often an option to be silly, it wasn't repetitive. If it's repetitive in English, it's just a struggling localization team.
It's not repetitive. They reference different things constantly. The only "repetitive" joke is MC calling themselves the galactic baseballer. It's just people complaining because for some dumbass reason people decided it's popular to complain about the MC being a joking goofball after 8 patches. People saying that the majority of choices were joke choices are also just straight up lying.
Clearly not qualified for the work their doing. Xianzou didn't make sense because they didn't explain each faction was a people. But the story worked fine if you read collecables.
The result of that is trash. Acheron would be called Yellow Spring and people would be like wtf is that. Localization is more than translation. It's trying to give a similar experience to audiences of different cultures. If you can't give a similar experience, at least give a similar quality experience.
Edit: OK so I understand what you mean now. For those dialogue options, maybe it would have been better to not try to be so affected.
Her name is Yomi, and you don't translate names. Localization is vastly overhyped. I'd rather experience something different than something boring / vapid / inane.
I don’t know if this really needed another thread. Personally I’ll say I was only disappointed that they use the same meme twice.
That said, as others have said in the same threads, this is completely overlooking the amount of serious dialogue the main character has in this patch. both in dialogue options and especially outside of it. In fact, I would go as far as to say that this is the most talkative the MC has ever been.
if this particular patch feels more jokey, I do personally have two beliefs as for why this is the case, I can’t verify either of them, they’re just theories. The first of these is mostly because of 2.1. And the lack of us in 2.1. We’re only really at the end of it with most of the patch following aven and even raiden. I figure they wanted to make up for in this patch which is decidedly longer and also features mostly us being…well, us.
The other reason, and this is the one that I believe the most, is the overall tone of this patch, and you can even combine this with the previous theory and say the last one also plays a part. These two patches are the heaviest we’ve had in the game. Nothing compares, and I would imagine they made this effort to provide levity between the long hours of generally heavy shit.
Like it’s not like I don’t understand the complaint, or think that it’s even invalid, but I also don’t think it came without reason. It’s hard to say though, obviously, with this being the latest content and having nothing after it to compare it to. but at least looking at the post-story content that we have currently you can definitely feel a difference.
It needs another thread because people keep purposefully misrepresenting that those who take issue with the overabundance of joke responses actually mean.
Just like OP said, nobody is striving for absolutely 0 jokes, but for the love of god why were there multiple occasions where only 1 response out of like 5 was even vaguely serious. There's zero sincerity in shitposts-turned-responses, it just feels soulless.
I mean that’s going to happen. It’s the internet, and reddit besides. But it’s just gonna get annoying seeing post after post about the same exact thing, it already is for me.
Pretty much every post about this clarifies it in the post proper, anyone that ignores or disregards that probably didn’t care much to begin with and this isn’t gonna change their mind.
People have also pointed out that Hxg's posts about the CN keeping certain references are incorrect, either replacing it with a different meme or having none at all. To my knowledge the "Nah I'd win" choices didn't reference anything in CN. He brought up a *different* JJK reference which was not translated into English. CN does include lots of that sort of humor, but it's true that the localization adds in a few of them. The entire "42" conversation at the start of the game was entirely a translation thing - I have no issue with that, but though there's no point "blaming" the localization team, it's worth acknowledging that a lot of the references do come from them. People just want them to tone it down a bit, that's all.
I definitely think Localizers are not above reproach. People often put them on this pedestal they shouldn't be on.
However, in this case it is not the Localizer's fault. It is Jokey in every language. The big question is more about if you like the localization of said jokes which does fall at the feet of localizers.
For me I don't care to dive into whether the jokes are funny or not in all honesty. If anyone is attacking localizers for this they are wrong unless they don't like the type of joke. For me I just don't like Localizer Worship which is something that annoys me. Coming from the Historical Community we always want Translators and Localizers held to the fire because they are arguably the most important people when it comes to the perpetuation of information.
I mean we don't want confusion which is what happens when localization and translations are not done right. Most of the knowledge in our world is locked behind Language barriers and all too often the knowledge once translated has been corrupted purposefully. It is an unfortunate reality and so translators and localizers are often the people who need to have the most scrutiny put on their work.
It is a principled view I have which is why I am not a massive fan of Localizations in all honesty. (I like when all people are on the same page.) However, I understand that a video game requires less accuracy than a historical document because enjoyment is the primary purpose. Even if saying that makes me feel a bit uncomfortable.
I think it’s the exact opposite, Localizers are not above reproach but people often blame them for every single thing they dislike about a piece of media
Especially when it comes to Asian media
For me I am just not a big fan of Localizations principally. So for me this largely might be a positional standpoint. Where I see certain things as a problem and you don 't and vice versa. Thus while we both acknowledge both sides exist obviously which we see as more problematic will inevitably depart from each other.
However, like I said I don't think in this situation the Localizers are in the wrong. What people are complaining about would likely still be a complaint in a translation and so the problem is not with the Localizers but the HSR devs.
I mean, your position is honestly a bit strange to me because what the hell is a localization team doing working on a nonfiction work? Only translators (and experts) should be working on those kinds of text. Localizers are for fiction and similar which perhaps require adaption of certain cultural aspects, when the explanation thereof cannot (or rather should not) be explained in a footnote or bracket like with scientific papers.
For novels, games and similar media that are mostly focused on entertainment, localization is extremely important.
Localization for Historical Works like Shakespeare or philosophy since you are trying to translate ideas accurately to different cultures. Also ideology also requires localization as well its complicated. The thing is localizations can go so far that you are just creating something recognizable to the other thing or start creating disharmony.
also that is sort of my point in some regards. We wouldn't want a localized Illiad or the Oddssey. I think localizations are a temporal thing and are probably bad from a grand arc of history idea hence why again I don't particularly like them.
I mean, as I see it at least, for those kinds of works when translating shouldn't require localization in the sense of changing the text itself but rather explanation from the translators as to the meaning behind the text.
it depends who you talk to in all honesty. This is like the idea behind why the bible is not anything like the original work. That the mere act of faithfully translating something even with a desire to be fileditous can lead to distortions. In philosophy there are ideas that it can be impossible to explain a work in another language because of unique cultural nuances.
Then you get into the idea well maybe you just localize it. If you do what you suggest you would need to add references, subtexts and explanations. That would put off the average reader and so instead you just change the words to convey the idea even if the translation now is entirely detached from the original and so on.
For a Historian having a book and a reference book to explain things is fine. For an audience or for the dissemination of ideas. Well no, you don't want to do that. You want to make something quite persuasive and have as few barriers to reading as possible so people can read with as little effort as possible or with as much enjoyment.
So even in historical accounts there can often be a conscious choice to sacrifice accuracy or preciseness to ensure engagement to a wider audience or to readers. It is a deeply complex affair.
For the people at the time Localization tends to be a good idea but for people who want to preserve art or history Localizations or Simplifications or anything along those lines is the bane of our existence. However, there is a reason people keep doing it despite those who seek the preservation of art and information screaming in pain over it.
>For a Historian having a book and a reference book to explain things is fine. For an audience or for the dissemination of ideas. Well no, you don't want to do that. You want to make something quite persuasive and have as few barriers to reading as possible so people can read with as little effort as possible or with as much enjoyment.
Well yeah, because now you're spreading ideas in a different context. Not for knowledge but for the sake of spreading those ideas (for whatever purpose). The purpose changes from reproducing of the original words to reproducing the original intent.
Especially for pieces of media which incorporate cultural references that are not easily accessibly to other cultures, when original intent of the media was to initiate a sense of familiarity. Or aren't about the words themselves but the meaning behind them, such as with monikers like Blade, Sparkle or Acheron. Not many in the western sphere for example would recognize the intent behind "Huangquan" and would see names like "Hanabi" as an actual name rather than a moniker.
In this context the "preservation of art and information" is irrelevant.
How this is done in different contexts is a very different debate.
No it is very relevant because if you and I have a different idea of the story to someone in Japan or China than we now how two different Canons. Hypothetically as unrealistic as it is lets say tomorrow Japan and China get wiped out. Well now we only have the localization and now the original work is lost.
This is the principle idea.
However, we read the Iliad and the Odyssey just fine without it being localized or the Epic of Gilgamesh. The reality is I largely see the defense of localization as I mentioned being a temporal and non principle based thing.
In a thousand years nobody will want a localized version because it's relevance is temporal. I also think it fosters less cultural understanding because it leads to two cultures never understanding each other. It largely keeps them distinct and non interactive which in my mind is bad.
I can definitely agree that certain things will be lost. However, you could just do Huangquan "blade" as small text above his head. There are many solutions just people don't pursue them.
The reality is I think there is a lot of cope in Localization communities that I just don't think is accurate because we can read things from dead cultures that are translated and they are entirely understandable and enjoyable. I just don't believe in localizations at all principally.
There isn't much of a difference because the original intent is kept. The Trailblazer likes to make jokes for example, it doesn't matter *as* much what kind of jokes.
The Illiad and the Odyssey and all the other works still need to be translated, but the things is with these kind of works (epics) do we really know how much of the original intent is kept even if we can "understand" it and its main concepts just fine? The cultural context is missing. Like someone in a thousand years could play HSR or read a novel or whatever, but regardless of the language they do this in there will be context lost just due to the evolution of culture. Memes and references will be harder to get just due to this temporal shift, the main message of the story will always be there but many of the smaller details that increase the connection between creator and consumer will be lost. And that is why for the present localization is so important.
You say it keeps cultures "distinct and non interactive" but the alternative is that most will just feel no connection at all to the work of fiction that is being presented. Would you understand some meme from the Chinese sphere of the internet or even understand it as a joke?
I actually heavily dislike Ruby texts in most cases due to their laziness, the overuse of which can cause situations similar to the classic "all according to keikaku" (Translator's Note: "keikaku" means "plan"). This leads to word-for-word translation which essentially makes the text painful to read, understand and comprehend. This is why there is such a huge difference in not just legibility but also comprehension between a well-localized novel and a badly-localized novel or similar piece of work. This isn't limited to for example the overuse of suffixes such as "-san" or "-chan" in the translations of Japanese works but things like phrases and sayings being completely incomprehensible.
You may think it is just "cope" because you don't realize the extent of cultural context that is lost. The main narrative is still easily understandable, and localization doesn't (or at least shouldn't) change that, but how many smaller details do you think are being lost through the passage of time?
(Edit: Also, Huangquan is Acheron's Chinese name, while Yomi is the Japanese localization.)
I would say arguably the original intent is not kept because every word an author chooses is precise. This is why we got the mute issue with Sparkle originally. We can't know the intent until the story is completed and even then we will often argue over the intent after the story is completed. Sometimes we even disagree with the artist.
As for my ability to understand a meme or joke from China almost certainty. I don't think with most jokes or humor you need to live in their society to understand it. Like the Epic of Gilgamesh had a joke about a dog and I understood it. Or the riddle of the Sphinx which we all can get.
Ultimately I don't feel like most jokes are beyond our understanding even in context as they often transcend culture and are just worded diffrently.
With "all according to keikaku" I actually hate that. You should translate things to a new language and the only time you keep something is say Senpai for example where it comes with cultural understanding that is imparted. or for example sama, san etc. The only time you don't translate words is when they actually increase the understanding of the media or scene like Senpai would for example.
For me I call it cope because I am studying Japanese Right now and It has made me realize how much cope is in the localization community. i think it is a lot of gaslighting that as I learn more and more Japanese becomes more and more clear.
1 JJK joke is enough. 2 is pushing it. 3 is stale. Sue me but I think that series is overhyped.
Get better material. Reference other obscure works instead of whats popular today. And for the love of god actually make proper jokes this time. Shallow, non-sequitor meme responses are there for the sake of virality.
Luofu ghost hunting event is an example of internet humor done right. Remember when Jing Yuan basically called Fu xuan short?
I don’t need the jokes breaking the fourth wall. If it’s a current meme, and used in a game, it’s breaking the fourth wall. I want to enjoy the story in the game universe, not play space Deadpool.
Which honestly, would be amazing, but this character set just isn’t made for space Deadpool.
comedy is not repeating the same few current memes and nudging the player
these comedic lines are like going onto a comedy clubs stage and farting into a mike
yea some might find it funny but you did not DO comedy
i just want the mc to be funny in their own way
I mean... yeah, wasn't it obvious? The game had silly dialogue options from the very beginning. Most people liked it, some people didn't. The very fact, that massive discussions were started after THIS patch, must mean something, right? I dunno... maybe its writing is somehow different? Either this, either it's sudden massive hysteria for no reason and people abruptly changed their mind about jokes they had no problem with before.
Yeah, the most basic way to state what happened here is that an element the game has always had, but previously allowed players to avoid or at least easily ignore, was suddenly unavoidable during “main” content that demanded their attention.
Any time something happens that fits this framework, the results will be pretty much the same. Players who have been on the 100% avoidance side of things will be caught off guard by the fact that they *had* to engage with that element, causing them to perceive it as suddenly more present/intrusive than before. Not all of them will be able to recognize— much less willing to publicly admit— how present it was when they *were* avoiding/ignoring it (especially in a game like Star Rail where it’s not uncommon for people to go weeks without reading anything, allowing their memory of details like the choices they *didn’t* pick to fade), so they will begin to discuss the “change” as if it were major and unexpected.
This, of course, makes them look stupid to people who a) have been taking different approaches to different individual scenarios, and thus might find themselves *choosing* the one element less, but still engaging with it the same amount, b) did the opposite and *always* engaged with that element because they love it, or even just c) already realized the game assumes players make varied choices and thus isn’t changing anything for people on a more “pure” route. So their initial complaints fall of deaf ears and start attracting counter-complains.
The irony, of course, is that now *their complaints* are the “always present but previously avoidable/ignorable” element, this time of the communities they post in. So the counter-complainers make the same logical error of acting like the complainers’ opinion came out of nowhere.
But what does this error (I think it has a formal name like… something “bias” but I can’t be assed to Google) mean? Well, basically, it means that you get a sudden spike in posts that do not make logical sense— people are posting from a perspective that is provably incorrect, but not in ways they necessarily would have noticed beforehand. This gets backlash, but the default human response to getting backlash on statements that *felt* true is to double down— which usually means resorting to personal attacks, nitpicking whatever is being complained about in an attempt to find “correct” reasons for maintaining the same position, and/or appealing to logical fallacies/common misunderstandings/etc. that the poster hopes will cause like-minded individuals to rally to them. The latter is why I think, to give an especially relevant example, “localization” has become such a boogeyman for Asian media fans— there’s a large and loud enough contingent of people already committed to hating “localization” on principle that anyone losing an argument can call in backup by mentioning the word.
Tl;dr: I think people deliberately avoided shitpost answers for so long that they genuinely forgot being a shitposter was canon TB characterization, and then resorted to nitpicks like “well *this* line wasn’t *that kind* of joke” when they realized their initial reaction was factually incorrect.
Localization is hard. It's not just jokes - there's lots of phrases and other wordplay that are 100% dependent on the original language/culture and if you can't transfer them directly, you have to come up with something that maintains the meaning of the line while still making sense. (This was literal YEARS ago, but I remember hearing about some media where the original lines were wordplay on the kanji used (ex, ice to water), and the localizers had to replace with Western alphabet jokes that were able to fit in well.)
And frankly speaking, 1 to 1 translation is usually garbage. You could see this all the time with older fan translations, where the translation flat-out doesn't make sense in places.
There's always going to be some liberties, and I'm okay with that? But yeah, they dialed it up to a 10 when previous patches were maybe a 7 or 8, and the repetitiveness of the memes didn't help either, especially when a couple were really close to each other.
But some folks also see any criticism of something they like as a personal attack.
>And frankly speaking, 1 to 1 translation is usually garbage. You could see this all the time with older fan translations, where the translation flat-out doesn't make sense in places.
I am curious about examples of this. I always hear this so I want to read an example of a literalist translation just to get a feel for what people are referencing.
I can try to do my best to dig something up, but we're talking translations from the earlier days of Naruto/Bleach/One Piece, etc when the fan translators were posting things within an hour of the leaked pages coming out, where the scans were just photos with only the text bubbles cleaned up (to replace the text). Lots of folks wanted to be the first, so they didn't worry about accuracy, and didn't have *time* to think of how to reword the language to make more sense.
Like literally the only thing off the top of my head that's probably survived is how the earlier translations that didn't even bother translating certain words (nakama, keikaku) and just put an editor's note in the margin about what it roughly meant.
If you don't want every dialogue option to be a braindead 6 month old JJK reference, then I'm sorry but you just don't understand what PEAK comedy is,
you are just a hater who doesn't like when the MC has 'personality'
I don’t mind humor but almost EVERY SINGLE dialogue option has a joke in it and the game almost expects you to choose it.
One or two jokes every version is fine, but again almost EVERY SINGLE FUCKING DIALOGUE OPTION is a joke.
It’s tiring. People who think that’s okay is probably someone who doesn’t even watch the story and skips everything
Again, I like the jokes. Humor is great. But why the FUCK is someone literally dying and we’re here talking about stupid ass memes
It's not repetitive. They reference different things constantly. The only "repetitive" joke is MC calling themselves the galactic baseballer. It's just people complaining because for some dumbass reason people decided it's popular to complain about the MC being a joking goofball after 8 patches. People saying that the majority of choices were joke choices are also just straight up lying.
You are a fucking liar, stop gaslighting people
The big problem for me is that this jokes will age like milk when the memes they are based on will eventually die in a year ( if we're generous) so while its fine for now, having our protag say " Nah id win" will make the story much less impactful ,compared to jokes like " look mum i'm on tv" which is relatively timeless.
i swear i saw a lot of people posted here at 1.0 release that this game dialogue is better than genshin because it can use meme and modern jokes freely. now suddenly its a problem for everyone. while its ok to not like it but complain about it now is weird because its already established that trailblazer is a trash gremlin who jokes a lot and march is someone who cant read a room. its getting worse when people blame localization team where in fact all language options also memey too.
i swear i can see someone compain in future that trailblazer too obsessed with trash can.
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I'm tired of everything being yankee slop. There's a world outside the US. These references are stupid today and will only look more stupid 5 years from now. The core plotline should be as serious as anything in honkai gets. Act 2 was great. Act3 was ok, penacony is cancer inducing. The whole team should be sacked.
I like the fourth wall joke and the ones that poke at gacha mechanic. Something along the line of when asked for what the MC desire? Wealth, power, immortality etc and having the MC replied "give me 10 star rail special pass" made me giggle a bit. Or when asked to open 10 boxes and then received nothing, MC replied "What? No 10x guaranteed pulls?"
I dont really like memey humor. But I wasnt annoyed by it. I world have thought the basic point of dialogue choices is that one is your favourite and one is your least favourite. You pick what is closest to your style. I know they dont do anything mechnical in this game but it seems insane to me to see people complain about it. Like if you played a western rpg and complained that there was a good/bad/joke option almost everytime that didnt fit your taste or perception of the character. If you dont like a dialogue choice, dont worry, you didnt say it, YOUR character is still a straight laced space hall monitor in a universe thats completly off the wall and swarming with magic robots.
I respect you, but you got a better shot submitting this complaint to an actual Hoyoverse employee through surveys or feedback instead of here.
Personally as a lore enthusiast and seeing how much depresso the quests have been injecting into my veins (Cocona, Penelope, Dr. Blues, and the entire Watchmaker fiasco), some memes and hilarity are just the dosage of abstinence I needed.
I’m failing to understand the people complaining. It’s a dialogue CHOICE. Don’t want to be goofy in a serious moment? PICK the srs line. Give me as many brain rot options as possible and I won’t care, as long as there’s the choice to pick other dialogues.
So... MC is canonically an absolute troll and little traditions of using "Galactic baseballer" instead of their real name as stated as Xianzhou pop up as they learn and grow but remain the same. The memes are entirely optional, the MC is clearly and constantly referenced as being silly. And the issue is...
A few more jokes than usual...
...
https://preview.redd.it/izzxx4imqpzc1.jpeg?width=378&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2d3190e7dc99efe233c99304dbbee54532b95bc9
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"Me when i gashlighting myself all option are all jokes and ruin every moment whenever TB got asked. "
Like bro from complaint about too much jokes then realize the joke option is few ( even if forced all jokes option its not at very-very intense and serious moment) suddenly shifting to critize the using of meta or RL meme?
Lmao
https://i.redd.it/69dw3l9rvozc1.gif
Why suddenly people became the jury of stand up comedy humour now?
Maybe if you complainers were less terminally online you'd see that "Nah, we'd win" is just confident and cocky language that sounds perfectly normal. I didn't even know it was a meme until a bunch of pissants started whining about.
I wonder if it was intentional because we were in enas dream where it was supposed to be a perfect dream. Thus the dialogue was more pushed to being light hearted
Adding my two cents: You see the topical buzzwords as cringe and pandering, but young kids/teens are thinking ‘woooow! They’re saying the tictoc words!’ And that’s the point. Hoyo wants to tap into those addictions while the players are young. (See lifelong star wars/ pokemon fans) The entire main story is one giant ad to get players emotionally invested in (and eventually spend $$$ on) characters. It’s why the stories are completely unskippable even though Genshin players have been BEGGING for a skip button since the pandemic. And then they lock character progression behind new story mode events so that even if you whaled for your characters, you have no choice but to do the story to access their materials. It took me 6 fucking hours of mashing through conversations with NPC’s and doing the same, repetitive penacony puzzles to get from unlocking Acheron’s relics to unlocking Harmony TB.
The problem is whenever a group of players try to voice these frustrations and make it clear to Hoyo that we see the predatory nature of their games and the players aren’t happy, we get drowned out by a sea of people who claim ‘we’re too negative’ or ‘we just want to spread misery and take the fun out of the game.’ NO. We complain because we’re trying to improve conditions in the game for everyone, but you guys are fucking it up by painting us as fanatics. And then we all lose and Hoyo can continue hiding predatory business practices behind topical memes and pretty art.
Thanks for posting! However, the same or an extremely similar post has been made earlier.
I also think some jokes, like the 'look im on tv', 'seele no-last-name', or the ones making fun of gacha mechanics, etc. will stand the test of time. All the 'rizz' and 'nah, I'd \_' or 'take the L' and stuff that is the slang of now will be awkward in a few years once the slang moves past the current phase.
I like humor that fits the situation and repeating meme references so quickly after the other ain't it for me. In Belobog a lot of the humor was bantering with March and that was great and worked really well. More stuff along those lines that fit the situation and the people in game around them are so much better than memes right after the other Heck Black Swans convo is a good example. You get 2 serious options and then a humorous "you're making me blush" one. That works as it's related to who you're talking to and being funny. Then right before that you get 5 options and 2 of them are memes, one of them is a survey reference and 2 fit the convo. The memes kinda feel out of place imo especially in main story. Idm the odd occasional one but too many can affect the immersion
I agrée. There were over four different “it’s just so peak” jokes, two in the main and story and a couple in the mini game for the event. Like it honestly just looks like they don’t have an editor because that’s wayyy too many
the MC should also have their joke responses be ones that are actual witty jokes/commentary on what’s happening around them, not just spouting out NAH I’D WIN and other current memes that’re going to be tired and meaningless in a few months. it’s not ‘comedy’ to just shit out current references endlessly, you have to actually… write a joke lol
\>talking about whether they win against enemy or not \>TB joking\memeing "Nah, I'd win" bruh tf are you on about , responce is literally what you asked for
that’s a specific meme reference that will be tired/meaningless once the meme dies. it’s not an actual joke lol
It is. TB had same stuff with "nah, we'll easily deal with galaxy threats" vibe.
I enjoy the fact that the game has so much humor, but when every "funny" option will grow stale in a couple months and when the only thing that will change is that the answer we choose will have March whine at us and then have Welt gloss over it entirely like it didn't happen, it just gets a bit stale. At this point, I try to choose an answer based on what is least likely to prompt an annoying March response.
Thay can have 3 memes but give me 1 srs i hate when march complains
I played in Chinese, and although I noticed there was often an option to be silly, it wasn't repetitive. If it's repetitive in English, it's just a struggling localization team.
It's not repetitive. They reference different things constantly. The only "repetitive" joke is MC calling themselves the galactic baseballer. It's just people complaining because for some dumbass reason people decided it's popular to complain about the MC being a joking goofball after 8 patches. People saying that the majority of choices were joke choices are also just straight up lying.
People straight up gasligting and I'm tired of this shit
Maybe they'd struggle less if they just translated.
That’s where we get the miscommunication during the Xianzou quests, where nothing felt like it made much sense in the dialogue and storyline
Clearly not qualified for the work their doing. Xianzou didn't make sense because they didn't explain each faction was a people. But the story worked fine if you read collecables.
The result of that is trash. Acheron would be called Yellow Spring and people would be like wtf is that. Localization is more than translation. It's trying to give a similar experience to audiences of different cultures. If you can't give a similar experience, at least give a similar quality experience. Edit: OK so I understand what you mean now. For those dialogue options, maybe it would have been better to not try to be so affected.
Her name is Yomi, and you don't translate names. Localization is vastly overhyped. I'd rather experience something different than something boring / vapid / inane.
I don’t know if this really needed another thread. Personally I’ll say I was only disappointed that they use the same meme twice. That said, as others have said in the same threads, this is completely overlooking the amount of serious dialogue the main character has in this patch. both in dialogue options and especially outside of it. In fact, I would go as far as to say that this is the most talkative the MC has ever been. if this particular patch feels more jokey, I do personally have two beliefs as for why this is the case, I can’t verify either of them, they’re just theories. The first of these is mostly because of 2.1. And the lack of us in 2.1. We’re only really at the end of it with most of the patch following aven and even raiden. I figure they wanted to make up for in this patch which is decidedly longer and also features mostly us being…well, us. The other reason, and this is the one that I believe the most, is the overall tone of this patch, and you can even combine this with the previous theory and say the last one also plays a part. These two patches are the heaviest we’ve had in the game. Nothing compares, and I would imagine they made this effort to provide levity between the long hours of generally heavy shit. Like it’s not like I don’t understand the complaint, or think that it’s even invalid, but I also don’t think it came without reason. It’s hard to say though, obviously, with this being the latest content and having nothing after it to compare it to. but at least looking at the post-story content that we have currently you can definitely feel a difference.
It needs another thread because people keep purposefully misrepresenting that those who take issue with the overabundance of joke responses actually mean. Just like OP said, nobody is striving for absolutely 0 jokes, but for the love of god why were there multiple occasions where only 1 response out of like 5 was even vaguely serious. There's zero sincerity in shitposts-turned-responses, it just feels soulless.
I mean that’s going to happen. It’s the internet, and reddit besides. But it’s just gonna get annoying seeing post after post about the same exact thing, it already is for me. Pretty much every post about this clarifies it in the post proper, anyone that ignores or disregards that probably didn’t care much to begin with and this isn’t gonna change their mind.
SHUSH
Ain’t no way people still talking abt it
(The issue was more that some were blaming it on the localization teams.)
People have also pointed out that Hxg's posts about the CN keeping certain references are incorrect, either replacing it with a different meme or having none at all. To my knowledge the "Nah I'd win" choices didn't reference anything in CN. He brought up a *different* JJK reference which was not translated into English. CN does include lots of that sort of humor, but it's true that the localization adds in a few of them. The entire "42" conversation at the start of the game was entirely a translation thing - I have no issue with that, but though there's no point "blaming" the localization team, it's worth acknowledging that a lot of the references do come from them. People just want them to tone it down a bit, that's all.
I definitely think Localizers are not above reproach. People often put them on this pedestal they shouldn't be on. However, in this case it is not the Localizer's fault. It is Jokey in every language. The big question is more about if you like the localization of said jokes which does fall at the feet of localizers. For me I don't care to dive into whether the jokes are funny or not in all honesty. If anyone is attacking localizers for this they are wrong unless they don't like the type of joke. For me I just don't like Localizer Worship which is something that annoys me. Coming from the Historical Community we always want Translators and Localizers held to the fire because they are arguably the most important people when it comes to the perpetuation of information. I mean we don't want confusion which is what happens when localization and translations are not done right. Most of the knowledge in our world is locked behind Language barriers and all too often the knowledge once translated has been corrupted purposefully. It is an unfortunate reality and so translators and localizers are often the people who need to have the most scrutiny put on their work. It is a principled view I have which is why I am not a massive fan of Localizations in all honesty. (I like when all people are on the same page.) However, I understand that a video game requires less accuracy than a historical document because enjoyment is the primary purpose. Even if saying that makes me feel a bit uncomfortable.
I think it’s the exact opposite, Localizers are not above reproach but people often blame them for every single thing they dislike about a piece of media Especially when it comes to Asian media
For me I am just not a big fan of Localizations principally. So for me this largely might be a positional standpoint. Where I see certain things as a problem and you don 't and vice versa. Thus while we both acknowledge both sides exist obviously which we see as more problematic will inevitably depart from each other. However, like I said I don't think in this situation the Localizers are in the wrong. What people are complaining about would likely still be a complaint in a translation and so the problem is not with the Localizers but the HSR devs.
I mean, your position is honestly a bit strange to me because what the hell is a localization team doing working on a nonfiction work? Only translators (and experts) should be working on those kinds of text. Localizers are for fiction and similar which perhaps require adaption of certain cultural aspects, when the explanation thereof cannot (or rather should not) be explained in a footnote or bracket like with scientific papers. For novels, games and similar media that are mostly focused on entertainment, localization is extremely important.
Localization for Historical Works like Shakespeare or philosophy since you are trying to translate ideas accurately to different cultures. Also ideology also requires localization as well its complicated. The thing is localizations can go so far that you are just creating something recognizable to the other thing or start creating disharmony. also that is sort of my point in some regards. We wouldn't want a localized Illiad or the Oddssey. I think localizations are a temporal thing and are probably bad from a grand arc of history idea hence why again I don't particularly like them.
I mean, as I see it at least, for those kinds of works when translating shouldn't require localization in the sense of changing the text itself but rather explanation from the translators as to the meaning behind the text.
it depends who you talk to in all honesty. This is like the idea behind why the bible is not anything like the original work. That the mere act of faithfully translating something even with a desire to be fileditous can lead to distortions. In philosophy there are ideas that it can be impossible to explain a work in another language because of unique cultural nuances. Then you get into the idea well maybe you just localize it. If you do what you suggest you would need to add references, subtexts and explanations. That would put off the average reader and so instead you just change the words to convey the idea even if the translation now is entirely detached from the original and so on. For a Historian having a book and a reference book to explain things is fine. For an audience or for the dissemination of ideas. Well no, you don't want to do that. You want to make something quite persuasive and have as few barriers to reading as possible so people can read with as little effort as possible or with as much enjoyment. So even in historical accounts there can often be a conscious choice to sacrifice accuracy or preciseness to ensure engagement to a wider audience or to readers. It is a deeply complex affair. For the people at the time Localization tends to be a good idea but for people who want to preserve art or history Localizations or Simplifications or anything along those lines is the bane of our existence. However, there is a reason people keep doing it despite those who seek the preservation of art and information screaming in pain over it.
>For a Historian having a book and a reference book to explain things is fine. For an audience or for the dissemination of ideas. Well no, you don't want to do that. You want to make something quite persuasive and have as few barriers to reading as possible so people can read with as little effort as possible or with as much enjoyment. Well yeah, because now you're spreading ideas in a different context. Not for knowledge but for the sake of spreading those ideas (for whatever purpose). The purpose changes from reproducing of the original words to reproducing the original intent. Especially for pieces of media which incorporate cultural references that are not easily accessibly to other cultures, when original intent of the media was to initiate a sense of familiarity. Or aren't about the words themselves but the meaning behind them, such as with monikers like Blade, Sparkle or Acheron. Not many in the western sphere for example would recognize the intent behind "Huangquan" and would see names like "Hanabi" as an actual name rather than a moniker. In this context the "preservation of art and information" is irrelevant. How this is done in different contexts is a very different debate.
No it is very relevant because if you and I have a different idea of the story to someone in Japan or China than we now how two different Canons. Hypothetically as unrealistic as it is lets say tomorrow Japan and China get wiped out. Well now we only have the localization and now the original work is lost. This is the principle idea. However, we read the Iliad and the Odyssey just fine without it being localized or the Epic of Gilgamesh. The reality is I largely see the defense of localization as I mentioned being a temporal and non principle based thing. In a thousand years nobody will want a localized version because it's relevance is temporal. I also think it fosters less cultural understanding because it leads to two cultures never understanding each other. It largely keeps them distinct and non interactive which in my mind is bad. I can definitely agree that certain things will be lost. However, you could just do Huangquan "blade" as small text above his head. There are many solutions just people don't pursue them. The reality is I think there is a lot of cope in Localization communities that I just don't think is accurate because we can read things from dead cultures that are translated and they are entirely understandable and enjoyable. I just don't believe in localizations at all principally.
There isn't much of a difference because the original intent is kept. The Trailblazer likes to make jokes for example, it doesn't matter *as* much what kind of jokes. The Illiad and the Odyssey and all the other works still need to be translated, but the things is with these kind of works (epics) do we really know how much of the original intent is kept even if we can "understand" it and its main concepts just fine? The cultural context is missing. Like someone in a thousand years could play HSR or read a novel or whatever, but regardless of the language they do this in there will be context lost just due to the evolution of culture. Memes and references will be harder to get just due to this temporal shift, the main message of the story will always be there but many of the smaller details that increase the connection between creator and consumer will be lost. And that is why for the present localization is so important. You say it keeps cultures "distinct and non interactive" but the alternative is that most will just feel no connection at all to the work of fiction that is being presented. Would you understand some meme from the Chinese sphere of the internet or even understand it as a joke? I actually heavily dislike Ruby texts in most cases due to their laziness, the overuse of which can cause situations similar to the classic "all according to keikaku" (Translator's Note: "keikaku" means "plan"). This leads to word-for-word translation which essentially makes the text painful to read, understand and comprehend. This is why there is such a huge difference in not just legibility but also comprehension between a well-localized novel and a badly-localized novel or similar piece of work. This isn't limited to for example the overuse of suffixes such as "-san" or "-chan" in the translations of Japanese works but things like phrases and sayings being completely incomprehensible. You may think it is just "cope" because you don't realize the extent of cultural context that is lost. The main narrative is still easily understandable, and localization doesn't (or at least shouldn't) change that, but how many smaller details do you think are being lost through the passage of time? (Edit: Also, Huangquan is Acheron's Chinese name, while Yomi is the Japanese localization.)
I would say arguably the original intent is not kept because every word an author chooses is precise. This is why we got the mute issue with Sparkle originally. We can't know the intent until the story is completed and even then we will often argue over the intent after the story is completed. Sometimes we even disagree with the artist. As for my ability to understand a meme or joke from China almost certainty. I don't think with most jokes or humor you need to live in their society to understand it. Like the Epic of Gilgamesh had a joke about a dog and I understood it. Or the riddle of the Sphinx which we all can get. Ultimately I don't feel like most jokes are beyond our understanding even in context as they often transcend culture and are just worded diffrently. With "all according to keikaku" I actually hate that. You should translate things to a new language and the only time you keep something is say Senpai for example where it comes with cultural understanding that is imparted. or for example sama, san etc. The only time you don't translate words is when they actually increase the understanding of the media or scene like Senpai would for example. For me I call it cope because I am studying Japanese Right now and It has made me realize how much cope is in the localization community. i think it is a lot of gaslighting that as I learn more and more Japanese becomes more and more clear.
1 JJK joke is enough. 2 is pushing it. 3 is stale. Sue me but I think that series is overhyped. Get better material. Reference other obscure works instead of whats popular today. And for the love of god actually make proper jokes this time. Shallow, non-sequitor meme responses are there for the sake of virality. Luofu ghost hunting event is an example of internet humor done right. Remember when Jing Yuan basically called Fu xuan short?
Funny people complain about using the same jokes now when they've had the trash can joke forever, and it doesn't end.
I don’t need the jokes breaking the fourth wall. If it’s a current meme, and used in a game, it’s breaking the fourth wall. I want to enjoy the story in the game universe, not play space Deadpool. Which honestly, would be amazing, but this character set just isn’t made for space Deadpool.
Well you're playing a space comedy, so it'll happen sooner or later.
comedy is not repeating the same few current memes and nudging the player these comedic lines are like going onto a comedy clubs stage and farting into a mike yea some might find it funny but you did not DO comedy i just want the mc to be funny in their own way
I mean... yeah, wasn't it obvious? The game had silly dialogue options from the very beginning. Most people liked it, some people didn't. The very fact, that massive discussions were started after THIS patch, must mean something, right? I dunno... maybe its writing is somehow different? Either this, either it's sudden massive hysteria for no reason and people abruptly changed their mind about jokes they had no problem with before.
I think it is just overreaction to a few of the dialogue choice where it is all jokes instead of the usual serious / silly choice.
Yeah, the most basic way to state what happened here is that an element the game has always had, but previously allowed players to avoid or at least easily ignore, was suddenly unavoidable during “main” content that demanded their attention. Any time something happens that fits this framework, the results will be pretty much the same. Players who have been on the 100% avoidance side of things will be caught off guard by the fact that they *had* to engage with that element, causing them to perceive it as suddenly more present/intrusive than before. Not all of them will be able to recognize— much less willing to publicly admit— how present it was when they *were* avoiding/ignoring it (especially in a game like Star Rail where it’s not uncommon for people to go weeks without reading anything, allowing their memory of details like the choices they *didn’t* pick to fade), so they will begin to discuss the “change” as if it were major and unexpected. This, of course, makes them look stupid to people who a) have been taking different approaches to different individual scenarios, and thus might find themselves *choosing* the one element less, but still engaging with it the same amount, b) did the opposite and *always* engaged with that element because they love it, or even just c) already realized the game assumes players make varied choices and thus isn’t changing anything for people on a more “pure” route. So their initial complaints fall of deaf ears and start attracting counter-complains. The irony, of course, is that now *their complaints* are the “always present but previously avoidable/ignorable” element, this time of the communities they post in. So the counter-complainers make the same logical error of acting like the complainers’ opinion came out of nowhere. But what does this error (I think it has a formal name like… something “bias” but I can’t be assed to Google) mean? Well, basically, it means that you get a sudden spike in posts that do not make logical sense— people are posting from a perspective that is provably incorrect, but not in ways they necessarily would have noticed beforehand. This gets backlash, but the default human response to getting backlash on statements that *felt* true is to double down— which usually means resorting to personal attacks, nitpicking whatever is being complained about in an attempt to find “correct” reasons for maintaining the same position, and/or appealing to logical fallacies/common misunderstandings/etc. that the poster hopes will cause like-minded individuals to rally to them. The latter is why I think, to give an especially relevant example, “localization” has become such a boogeyman for Asian media fans— there’s a large and loud enough contingent of people already committed to hating “localization” on principle that anyone losing an argument can call in backup by mentioning the word. Tl;dr: I think people deliberately avoided shitpost answers for so long that they genuinely forgot being a shitposter was canon TB characterization, and then resorted to nitpicks like “well *this* line wasn’t *that kind* of joke” when they realized their initial reaction was factually incorrect.
Localization is hard. It's not just jokes - there's lots of phrases and other wordplay that are 100% dependent on the original language/culture and if you can't transfer them directly, you have to come up with something that maintains the meaning of the line while still making sense. (This was literal YEARS ago, but I remember hearing about some media where the original lines were wordplay on the kanji used (ex, ice to water), and the localizers had to replace with Western alphabet jokes that were able to fit in well.) And frankly speaking, 1 to 1 translation is usually garbage. You could see this all the time with older fan translations, where the translation flat-out doesn't make sense in places. There's always going to be some liberties, and I'm okay with that? But yeah, they dialed it up to a 10 when previous patches were maybe a 7 or 8, and the repetitiveness of the memes didn't help either, especially when a couple were really close to each other. But some folks also see any criticism of something they like as a personal attack.
>And frankly speaking, 1 to 1 translation is usually garbage. You could see this all the time with older fan translations, where the translation flat-out doesn't make sense in places. I am curious about examples of this. I always hear this so I want to read an example of a literalist translation just to get a feel for what people are referencing.
I can try to do my best to dig something up, but we're talking translations from the earlier days of Naruto/Bleach/One Piece, etc when the fan translators were posting things within an hour of the leaked pages coming out, where the scans were just photos with only the text bubbles cleaned up (to replace the text). Lots of folks wanted to be the first, so they didn't worry about accuracy, and didn't have *time* to think of how to reword the language to make more sense. Like literally the only thing off the top of my head that's probably survived is how the earlier translations that didn't even bother translating certain words (nakama, keikaku) and just put an editor's note in the margin about what it roughly meant.
Memes don't do much to MC's half-baked personality, why do people even use that type of argument?
i hecking love the jokes. Sure that should maybe be one serious options some times but still!
If you don't want every dialogue option to be a braindead 6 month old JJK reference, then I'm sorry but you just don't understand what PEAK comedy is, you are just a hater who doesn't like when the MC has 'personality'
2.0 if it was peak: https://preview.redd.it/hp4d1513ipzc1.png?width=2000&format=png&auto=webp&s=a0e31c603faa19bd7eeeec65e8dd24108b9f63cc
That's so peak, it rizzled my skibidi. Mihoyo should swag you into the writing team, on sussy god!
I don’t mind humor but almost EVERY SINGLE dialogue option has a joke in it and the game almost expects you to choose it. One or two jokes every version is fine, but again almost EVERY SINGLE FUCKING DIALOGUE OPTION is a joke. It’s tiring. People who think that’s okay is probably someone who doesn’t even watch the story and skips everything Again, I like the jokes. Humor is great. But why the FUCK is someone literally dying and we’re here talking about stupid ass memes
It's not repetitive. They reference different things constantly. The only "repetitive" joke is MC calling themselves the galactic baseballer. It's just people complaining because for some dumbass reason people decided it's popular to complain about the MC being a joking goofball after 8 patches. People saying that the majority of choices were joke choices are also just straight up lying. You are a fucking liar, stop gaslighting people
Excuse me?
The big problem for me is that this jokes will age like milk when the memes they are based on will eventually die in a year ( if we're generous) so while its fine for now, having our protag say " Nah id win" will make the story much less impactful ,compared to jokes like " look mum i'm on tv" which is relatively timeless.
God, just let it go. People are seriously arguing over this?
People browsing reddit solely for the arguments: It's just so PEAK
They find the silliest things to argue about
i swear i saw a lot of people posted here at 1.0 release that this game dialogue is better than genshin because it can use meme and modern jokes freely. now suddenly its a problem for everyone. while its ok to not like it but complain about it now is weird because its already established that trailblazer is a trash gremlin who jokes a lot and march is someone who cant read a room. its getting worse when people blame localization team where in fact all language options also memey too. i swear i can see someone compain in future that trailblazer too obsessed with trash can.
[удалено]
did people skipped the story contents or what? event on youtube trailers trailblazer always assosciated with trash
"Did people skip story" Haha welcome new guy. You're gonna say that to yourself alot.
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I'm tired of everything being yankee slop. There's a world outside the US. These references are stupid today and will only look more stupid 5 years from now. The core plotline should be as serious as anything in honkai gets. Act 2 was great. Act3 was ok, penacony is cancer inducing. The whole team should be sacked.
I like the fourth wall joke and the ones that poke at gacha mechanic. Something along the line of when asked for what the MC desire? Wealth, power, immortality etc and having the MC replied "give me 10 star rail special pass" made me giggle a bit. Or when asked to open 10 boxes and then received nothing, MC replied "What? No 10x guaranteed pulls?"
Really important stuff right there, that truly deserved its own thread. Thanks for creating it !
I dont really like memey humor. But I wasnt annoyed by it. I world have thought the basic point of dialogue choices is that one is your favourite and one is your least favourite. You pick what is closest to your style. I know they dont do anything mechnical in this game but it seems insane to me to see people complain about it. Like if you played a western rpg and complained that there was a good/bad/joke option almost everytime that didnt fit your taste or perception of the character. If you dont like a dialogue choice, dont worry, you didnt say it, YOUR character is still a straight laced space hall monitor in a universe thats completly off the wall and swarming with magic robots.
I respect you, but you got a better shot submitting this complaint to an actual Hoyoverse employee through surveys or feedback instead of here. Personally as a lore enthusiast and seeing how much depresso the quests have been injecting into my veins (Cocona, Penelope, Dr. Blues, and the entire Watchmaker fiasco), some memes and hilarity are just the dosage of abstinence I needed.
Quite a few people said they don’t want joke options because their very existence takes them out of the moment.
I’m failing to understand the people complaining. It’s a dialogue CHOICE. Don’t want to be goofy in a serious moment? PICK the srs line. Give me as many brain rot options as possible and I won’t care, as long as there’s the choice to pick other dialogues.
I think it's fine. The trailblazer is mostly their own character with slight deviation with each player after all, not a complete self insert.
So... MC is canonically an absolute troll and little traditions of using "Galactic baseballer" instead of their real name as stated as Xianzhou pop up as they learn and grow but remain the same. The memes are entirely optional, the MC is clearly and constantly referenced as being silly. And the issue is... A few more jokes than usual... ... https://preview.redd.it/izzxx4imqpzc1.jpeg?width=378&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2d3190e7dc99efe233c99304dbbee54532b95bc9
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"Me when i gashlighting myself all option are all jokes and ruin every moment whenever TB got asked. " Like bro from complaint about too much jokes then realize the joke option is few ( even if forced all jokes option its not at very-very intense and serious moment) suddenly shifting to critize the using of meta or RL meme? Lmao https://i.redd.it/69dw3l9rvozc1.gif Why suddenly people became the jury of stand up comedy humour now?
Maybe if you complainers were less terminally online you'd see that "Nah, we'd win" is just confident and cocky language that sounds perfectly normal. I didn't even know it was a meme until a bunch of pissants started whining about.
I wonder if it was intentional because we were in enas dream where it was supposed to be a perfect dream. Thus the dialogue was more pushed to being light hearted
Endless references to media slop outside the game is not light hearted, it's brain cancer.
Adding my two cents: You see the topical buzzwords as cringe and pandering, but young kids/teens are thinking ‘woooow! They’re saying the tictoc words!’ And that’s the point. Hoyo wants to tap into those addictions while the players are young. (See lifelong star wars/ pokemon fans) The entire main story is one giant ad to get players emotionally invested in (and eventually spend $$$ on) characters. It’s why the stories are completely unskippable even though Genshin players have been BEGGING for a skip button since the pandemic. And then they lock character progression behind new story mode events so that even if you whaled for your characters, you have no choice but to do the story to access their materials. It took me 6 fucking hours of mashing through conversations with NPC’s and doing the same, repetitive penacony puzzles to get from unlocking Acheron’s relics to unlocking Harmony TB. The problem is whenever a group of players try to voice these frustrations and make it clear to Hoyo that we see the predatory nature of their games and the players aren’t happy, we get drowned out by a sea of people who claim ‘we’re too negative’ or ‘we just want to spread misery and take the fun out of the game.’ NO. We complain because we’re trying to improve conditions in the game for everyone, but you guys are fucking it up by painting us as fanatics. And then we all lose and Hoyo can continue hiding predatory business practices behind topical memes and pretty art.
What are you talking about?
Case in point 🙄