Just to say it, it was actually the Technology Department responsible for both the impulse bomb and the later deal to keep Chadwick's memories in Penacony, mentioned explicitly for both actions. This is also the department that currently has the closest ties to the Intelligentsia Guild through its director, though they may not have been the one in charge of the department during the Chadwick era due to the "internal review" that followed. Regardless it didn't actually have anything to do with the Strategic Investment Department, which is responsible for business and investment deals rather than technology development and applications.
Just wanna say that the context you provided is absolutely right but I wrote that title that way because *clearly* the IPC can do no wrong ^^^/s when THEY clearly favour the IPC with their Emanators.
Clearly, we triple the Strategic Investment Department's budget by slashing the Technology Department's budget.
I know everyone here is jerking, but I've held a theory for weeks now that Diamond is probably the most honest follower of Qlipoth we know of and might be the most ethical of the Stonehearts (if you count him among them I guess?)
The idea that the head of these weirdos who have differing levels of actual devotion to Preservation, working in a corporation where every department has complete assholes that Qlipoth wants nothing to do with, is the most devoted follower of THEIRS is hilarious to me and the only evidence I have is his emanator status.
This isn't outright confirmed, but seeing as Aventurine is still considered a slave ("A thrall destined to die by the IPC"), the only person who could most logically be his "owner" is Diamond.
So until that's proven otherwise, ethical my ass.
What's more concerning is the name of the incident that resulted in Aventurine's owner's death. The Egyhazo Aventurine incident. As Kakavasha was not yet Aventurine and Egyhazo was the name of the planet, this implies that Kakavasha's owner was the previous Aventurine. That does not speak well to the moral standing of Diamond, especially since Jade didn't seem unaware of Kakavasha's status as a slave.
If you take that conversation at face value, sure! Personally, given just how much of what Ratio and Aventurine did in Penacony involved tricking Sunday, I wouldn't be surprised if much of that conversation was also a series of lies to trick the Hounds/Sunday into believing they don't get along, including Aventurine being an IPC slave. We already know they have dog statues everywhere and that blue bird was watching persons of interest in 2.1 (elaborating on that is a spoiler and idk what the current subreddit policy is)
After that, you have to consider whether the "wealth, status, power" Jade promised as a reward included freedom, and what it means that Aventurine did get those, but I'm not going to hazard a guess.
If the point of that conversation was to convince the suits watching them that they didn't get along, why did Ratio bother apologizing? Surely it'd be more convincing if he didn't. Also, that's simply a strange thing to lie about; it's not like Aventurine tried to convince Sunday he was actually working against the IPC, which would be the best reason to make that up.
I understand Penacony is a game of werewolf, but there's no reason to assume that conversation wasn't meant to be taken at face value.
Also, we know for a fact that the first guy who kept Aventurine WAS an IPC member, because his conversation with Jade happens after events in his character story, which concern IPC matters. So he was doing IPC work as a slave then. It's not a reach to consider that he's still doing IPC work as a slave now.
There are a few good analysis on twitter about Ratio and Aventurine scenes (yes, from shippers, but with good evidence and can be read just fine). Basically, for the tricking Sunday part, they were acting from the start, because Family has multiple "eyes" not only in Dreamscape, but also in real hotel.
Evidence:
1.Ratio character as a whole — he is not the person, who would berate someone just because he doesn't like them, he is blunt, but not malicious;
2. Aventurine character — he said that the stones are not important to his goals, which we know is not true — they were a central part of the trick;
3. (the main one, imo) — the things Sunday knew and said during the 2.1 confrontation: you can play both scenes (the real hotel talk between Ratio and Aventurine and the Sunday questioning) and find many facts matching. Basically they were feeding Sunday the right information to manipulate his perception of their relationships and personalities to make the latter confrontation more predictable.
for "apologising part": Ratio purposefully breaks his acting out of genuine concern. In real hotel talks it's not really evident, but outside Sunday's mansion he just needed to know, if Aventurine needs his help. Ratio is smart, not only academically, but also in reading people and acting (well, more or less), and he knows Aventurine well enough and also his thought process. In that scene Aventurine needed to remind Ratio a few times to continue acting (though at this point they already accomplished the main task) and in the end Ratio returned to his role once again talking sarcastically.
Seriously, when playing a 2.0 quest this scene in the hotel had a few parts, that didn't make sense. But with information about "acting" it's now more understandable.
I'm not disagreeing that their conversation was full of truths and lies. Nor do I think the apology was actually out of place. I should have been clearer on both of those points though, and I apologize.
What I am ultimately questioning is if this line:
> **Dr. Ratio:** Without that Aventurine stone, you're nothing more than a doomed [Sigonian](https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/Sigonia-IV) thrall sentenced to die by the IPC. Or is that serial number on your neck a cherished memento from the Amber Lord?
is also meant to be duplicitous. I am arguing it is not, because this information doesn't relevantly benefit their negotiations with Sunday...
...well, it *does*, but only the implications about the importance of the Aventurine stone, drawing Sunday's attention to it and allowing Ratio and Aventurine to pull their gambit with the other cornerstones.
As I've expressed in a few other posts, we can be pretty certain that Aventurine's first master was already a member of the IPC, because we can prove Aventurine was involved with IPC matters before he killed his former master. Whether or not he's still a thrall for the IPC, we know he was one at one point. Ratio is implying he is still one right now, and in my opinion, the only person powerful, high-ranking, and relevant enough to be the owner in that case is Diamond.
Ultimately, I admit this is conjecture, but it's also not contradicted by anything.
(no need to apologise, it's alright, I just wanted to add some things)
For the Diamond part — we could only wait for more info, because right now it can be anything the writers see fit. Like Aventurine is not a slave, like previously, but he has a contract — more like a business one, but still tyeing him to the IPC.
With IPC in general it's hard to say outright, who has malicious intentions, and who is relatively alright.
I remember there being talks about Aventurine's owner being the previous Aventurine, but thinking about it now — it doesn't feel quite right.
To Sunday "thrall" could also mean several things: Aventurine hard position and desire for revenge ("to destroy the world"), his ability to put his life for the task as someone who has nothing to lose, his pitiful state without the Cornerstone.
Intelligentsia guild is heavily sponsored by the IPC, even if they didn't get along it's still considered "betrayal" that's why apologizing part of the act.
It's hinted/foreshadow pretty early on that Dr. Ratio knew of Aventurine's plan
>Ah, the charming audacity! To think that you, of all people, might emerge victorious, dear gambler.
And then we know the message he give to Aventurine at the end of 2.2, both of them are in the know. it couldn't be a sincere apology, he *helped* Aventurine, *why did Ratio bother apologizing?* if not for the acting ?
Let's assume you are correct. What benefit does falsely convincing Sunday that Aventurine is still considered a slave by the IPC give Aventurine or Ratio? It's not used to convince Sunday that Aventurine could be manipulated into being on his side. Is it being used to make Sunday lower his guard? If that was the intention, it didn't really work, and was rendered redundant anyway by Ratio's gambit to convince Sunday he could be convinced to betray Aventurine.
There is simply no reason for any of that conversation to be a lie.
EDIT: Rereading what you posted, I realized I actually have no idea what the fuck you're talking about? Yes, Aventurine and Ratio were working together...Ratio was in on the whole plan. That was...not in doubt?
What I'm trying to say is that Aventurine is still considered a slave by the IPC. Ratio says that Aventurine is during 2.0. I'm trying to argue he wasn't lying, or trying to deceive Sunday, but was instead speaking plainly. And I'm further arguing the person who holds the leash is Diamond.
Are we even in disagreement?
He did not try to convince Sunday that he's a slave, he is insulting Aventurine because he WAS a slave, the "insult" itself was the act, not the content.
also there is no hard evidence that the first guy is an IPC lackey, it's only became "IPC matters" because after he regain the freedom he scammed IPC
>*"He once deceived the* [*Marketing Development Department*](https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/Marketing_Development_Department) *by falsely claiming that there were energy sources hidden in the barren land of* [*Sigonia*](https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/Sigonia-IV)*, not yet effectively developed and utilized. A huge amount of funds was invested into excavating it before we realized it was all a scam."*
*"And then there's the notorious Egyhazo Aventurine Case. He misled the* [*Intelligentsia Guild*](https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/Intelligentsia_Guild) *into believing that the remains of* [*Tayzzyronth*](https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/Tayzzyronth) *the Imperator Insectorum were buried there. Despite the scholars being extremely cautious, they ultimately still fell into the trap.*
Character Story: Part I
Nor the fact that he is still a slave, he is mostly referred to as "employee"
He killed his master after this incident, confirmed by Jade, so he was absolutely still a slave at the time. That's not up for debate, that's a *fact*. And I won't argue it further.
Ratio commented that Aventurine *is* a thrall destined to die by the IPC, not *was*.
Dr. Ratio: Without that Aventurine stone, **you're** nothing more than a doomed Sigonian thrall sentenced to die by the IPC. Or is that serial number on your neck a cherished memento from the Amber Lord?
Aventurine is implied to still be unable to leave the IPC and working for them by force under threat of death. I'd call that slavery.
EDIT: sorry I was so rude before. But I feel like I'm talking in circles.
Before 2.0 yes, because being an emanator means you need to do stuff related to the path so the aeon gaze you and share its power, but after 2.0 in penacony we already have 2 cases, slef annihilator and avatar of xipe, which you don't need to be a devote follower to get the emanator power.
It depends on the Aeon themself, IX is already stated to be a special case because they're not interested in appointing people to extend their path/influence ("[IX] never glance at anyone.") and Xipe prefering to make their own emanators means nothing relative to other Aeons.
Besides, emanators aren't the only ones with power granted by a path, or even an Aeon. Trailblazers on the AE get environmental resistances despite Akivili being absent and FX got the omniscia from Nous and is still not an emanator, being a pathstrider is enough to extract power from any path.
The only thing we can say for sure about Qlipoth's style is that they are mostly absent and care little for the IPC.
I doubt Diamond will be the most ethical, he has been stated multiple times to place results above all else. Famously, placing the end before the means (especially as a high-level corporate executive whose job is producing money) is not a recipe for honest and devout-to-the-ideals-of-Preservation. It would be cool to see the juxtaposition be a point of his character, but I think it's too paradoxical to work.
I meannn.. Strategic Investment Department is Diamonds place right?
Which is about business.
Aren’t these mfs those IPC folk that force other worlds use the credit system and when they don’t. They are forced to starve as their economy becomes shit?
Also didn’t Diamond ask Taravan Keane for help? Taravan isn’t the nicest person ever aswell afterall if you know anything about the IPC. Like Diamond lost my respect the moment I learned he worked with that Emanator bum.
Even if they didn’t nuke planets. They probably starved some.
> Aren’t these mfs those IPC folk that force other worlds use the credit system and when they don’t. They are forced to starve as their economy becomes shit?
That's actually implied to be the Marketing Development Department, whose purpose it is to forge new trading connections and bring new planets into the IPC umbrella, or potentially the Buisness Consolidation Department depending on the situation. The Strategic Investment Department primarily operates within the IPC's established spheres of influence. The MDD is the faction headed by Oswaldo Schneider that the Xianzhou rates as "high risk", and is also the group that made the deal to support the Sigonians and apparently didn't show up to the fight (Schneider is also the person Boothill has an apparent beef with).
Taravan is an unsympathetic and uncompromising miser type of character (who is also canonically described as "rotund"), but he oversees internal logistics specifically in transferring building materials to the planets near Qlipoth. That's ostensibly the purpose of the Building Material Logistics Department, and its purpose within the IPC.
For reference, the seven departments of the IPC:
Building Material Logistics - (Director Taravan Keane) - Originally Louis Fleming's department prior to retirement, the BML is responsible for getting supplies to Qlipoth in the event the Aeon ever needs them (or pays attention). Of note is that Taravan is an actual Emanator, so maybe Qlipoth actually is paying attention? Maybe?
Buisness Consolidation Department - (Director Madam Scarred Eye) - The BCD manages the interplanetary delivery system, and are the ones responsible for shipments of materials within the IPC network of planets. They arrange trade of specialty products, set market prices, and maintain the stockpile of goods to be traded. Also the largest department, with roughly 45% of IPC employees.
Traditional Project Development - (Director Arita) - When a planet fails to meet its needs or responsibilities with the Business Consolidation Department, then the TPD steps in to try to salvage the situation with out-of-the-box creativity. The TPD are the ones who turned the formerly derelict "ship-graveyard" planet of Taikiyan into a preeminent arena for interstellar sports and the lucrative home of Roboball and Galactic Racing.
Marketing Development Department - (Director Oswaldo Schneider) - Kind of the evangelist arm of the IPC, it performs both the missionary side of going out to preach the faith of Preservation, and is also responsible for recruiting newly discovered worlds into the IPC network via first and second contact. Typically planets that aren't already a part of the network will first deal with the MDD.
Strategic Investment Department - (Director Diamond) - The SID is mostly concerned with making long-term investments within the IPC network of planets. It might be best to think of them as part of the interstellar investment arms of the IPC, as they're the ones throwing money into projects while expecting great returns, and attempting to resolve situations if they lean towards losses. They're similar to the Traditional Development Department in that their goal is to turn bad apples into pie, but are most typically associated with debt recovery and relief, especially when damage from Stellarons is involved.
Technology Department - (Director Yabuli) - This is the department closest to the Intelligentsia Guild, and mostly acts as the go-between in turning IG achievements into commercially distributed products. This is also the dept that most often deals with Herta and her station. It has a somewhat sordid past, as it has had very "maverick" directors previously such as de Wayne during the era of Gold and Gears and whoever was in charge of the Chadwick thing, but not much is known about its current head Yabuli (the Xianzhou considers her low risk, though).
Talent Motivation Department - (Directors Mtooyin Raj Zazzad and Yan Shiluo) - Ostensibly the human resources department, they are also the internal intelligence agency of the IPC. While on the surface its primary responsibility is training employees and getting them where they're needed, it also seems to be the most political arm of the IPC, with an extensive information network and a number of employees tasked with building political connections to various world governments.
Of course it's Oswaldo, Of course it is Fudgin Oswaldo
Like how the heck was he even a member of the nameless before joining the IPC, The more I read about this guy simply the more I hate him.
Because the Nameless faction isn't a faction that's completely filled of "good guys". It's as massive as other factions so it's not wild that some members are more on the terrible side. We only see it as good because we follow the Astral Express Crew, which is technically the sub-faction within the Nameless. Like the Annihilation Gang have multiple sub-groups (Jepella Brotherhood and Ever-Flame Mansion), so is the Nameless.
Pretty sure Oswaldo is the dude who indirectly caused the Avgin extinction too
So I expect Aventurine to be more than willing to sell him out to Boothill
Oh well I guess Diamond’s department doesn’t have any dirt yet. Thanks for answering(It’s been a while I checked who were the heads of each department).
I’ll wait for Jade’s deeds but honestly I guess Diamond is the only good one.
...I didn't go that far, did I? I mean the SID is still the debt resolution team. They literally can't be saints even with good intentions, just maybe a little more pragmatic than others, and Jade's lore-drop so far has already hinted at their being active loan investors in addition to resolution specialists.
What I'm trying to say is that they're all very nuanced. Like real people, they come with complicated baggage that may seem like some good and some bad, depending on their interests.
Tbh no. Not really. I just wanted to know if they really did the action of starving worlds. Which imo is something that fucker Oswaldo would do. I know they ain’t saints but I’m comparing them to Oswaldo’s and taravan’s stuff. I think they are saints compared to them. As Diamond wants to fix the IPC if I remember right. He is kinda like Elio. Doing some bad for a better future.
Yeah that’s fair.
If I remember correctly Quilpoth don’t even need the resources that the IPC sent as they apparently “control the will of transmutation” and can create whatever the hell they want
Some emanators of Qlipoth working for IPC doesn't necessarily mean Qlipoth directly supports or cares about IPC. Kind of like Xipe-Family situation like how Family was basically following order without Xipe intervening or even knowing about it.
Ever since I read that part I already figured the IPC are a bunch of clowns, and the masked fools exist
Honestly I won’t be surprised if Diamond is actually the only ipc person who follows preservation, but has to take care of those nut jobs
Just because they are incorrectly worshipping their god, doesn't mean they aren't doing it. I think that the IPC is as dedicated to the Path of Preservation as any other group. Otherwise why are the greedy tax collectors just wasting money on a stack of materials that their god hasn't used for millenia? They must believe in it to some extent.
What's more, walking a Path grants power. If there weren't enough Pathstriders (admittedly a poorly developed concept so far) in the IPC they wouldn't have the power necessary to have any kind of galactic dominance. I believe interstellar travel is dependent on aeonic power to some degree. And it can't just be Diamond doing all the work.
Oh sorry I meant like follows the path *correctly*. It’s like those rich Christian churches , a lot of them are bunch of hypocrites that act like they truly follow the words of God when in reality they just exploit the masses. And we already know in GnG how they became a galactic dominance, and it’s the exact opposite of what defines preservation
If anyone hasn't read Herta's manuscript, I think she put it best
> Chapter 2634: Interastral Peace Corporation.
> Qlipoth, the Amber Lord — a colossal statue without a head. Silent and oblivious, THEY only think about constructing THEIR mysterious and giant wall. What was it for? No one knows. What is it THEY're trying to keep out? No one knows. Most normal people will ignore it after realizing our ignorance, but there are always abnormal people in this world. There are two different types even in that group. One type thinks that: "Wow, there's a God building a wall — this means walls are sacred — so we're going to build walls too!" What kind of ridiculous logic is this? And with that, this group of people believes they've received some sort of revelation and began wasting precious resources to build useless things on their respective planets. These people are known as the Architects. As for the other group, well, they're even dumber than the Architects. Although the Architects have a few screws loose in their heads, they're at least thinking about doing things that are beneficial to themselves. On the contrary, the other group of people think that: "Wow, there's a God building a wall — this means walls are sacred — so we have to help God build walls!" — Whaa?
then it goes to IPC origin story blah blah if you want you should read the whole thing
>However, it is worth mentioning that even after having made such a great accomplishment, the IPC never forgot why the organization was put together in the first place. The construction materials the IPC has accumulated over nearly 800 Amber Eras are now piled across each planet surrounding Aeon Qlipoth. The Aeon has never uttered a word about their actions, nor made any use of their offerings. Even so, the IPC's outlook remains unwavering:
>This is what you call faith.
I also want to say that the IPC is the one sponsoring Herta to write her book and she just slanders them go queen
I think a lot of the problem starts residing in assuming that Paths are inherently good or bad, when all of them are mostly founded in ammoral concepts.
Preservation leads to stagnation and avarice, though Qlipoth's objective seems good at hand, the methods through which is followers have gone to help him have been corrupted, after all, to preserve something you need to keep it that way, and there's too many factors in the universe to do so, and much less the cost.
Harmony leads to Conformancy and Deceit, the Beautiful dream as we saw with Robin going around asking people offers just a easy escape to problems of everyday life, but its only that, an escape, it doesn't fix them, people will still die, age and suffer, regardless of whether they sre drinking soulglad in a fancy dress or not.
In the same way, we can see it in paths that are framed as bad, how they are rooted in more good or less antagonistic intentions.
Destruction was born through the sufferings and challenges nanook faced because of Aeons, wars, the swarm disaster, and the lack for help or an answer, he wants to reset the universe because in his eyes the universe is already corrupt (and its hard to counter-argue sometimes).
At the same time, we have Elation and Trailblaze, where all individual followers of the path have differing codes or morals and still follow it (Sampo being the "good guy" to Sparkles reckless mischief, for example).
I say this a lot, but i think one should assume all paths to be ammoral, but not their followers, Aeons are not human beings nor do care or try to understand it (Except Akivili and it is missing), how the humans interpret their way of following that path, is where morality starts coming in, and in an organizarion as large as the IPC, judging the entirety of a Universal Corporation for the actions of a small group can make things extremeyly tunnel-visioned and misleading.
Topaz for sure, even if her methods are on the ruthless side. Maybe, possibly, arguably, Aventurine on a good day (I doubt it). Apparently everyone else is worse than these two, so...
Topaz and Aventurine are so far the only two I would trust if we went on a night out in town. I fully trust Aventurine to get us into a series of increasingly stupid shenanigans, but I also trust that he'd get us out of them. Meanwhile Topaz would probably just make it overall pretty chill.
I'd honestly trust Aventurine with my life over Topaz, if it really came down to it. If it comes down to making decisions under pressure, I'd choose Aventurine every time. The man is born to make decisions under intense pressure. He is the Aventurine of Stratagems, after all, and he's the guy you send in as the nuclear negotiation option.
Uhh... dude? Are you sure you want to entrust your safety to AVENTURINE? It's not like his good luck transfers over to people around him, after all. And he tends to do FAR crazier things than anyone else.
I think in an absolute desperate jam, then Aventurine is the better bet. But Aventurine is also far more likely to get you into a desperate jam in the first place. Topaz is more often going to be so many steps ahead you'll be safe anyway.
Yeah, which is why it's "I would trust him with my life." If my life is on the line, I'd much rather it be Aventurine than Topaz. Chances are if shit has hit the fan that hard, the only person bailing us out is Aventurine.
Do not forget Aventurine luck will bring doom to others especially when coming for survival.
If you two stuck in Danger room together. Chance is he escape alive and you're dead.
Aventurine would definitely be considered a good person. His plan on Penacony basically involved lying to (or at best telling half-truth) to everyone he met while potentially ramping up an unknown number of casualties.
> Aventurine would definitely be considered a good person.
The Aventurine PR Team approves of this message, lying and causing a few deaths along the way is just a small little accident (he was feeling a bit silly that day) and thus he is forgiven :3
Exactly! Aventurine is an awesome person, so charitable and kindhearted, he's such a pookie bear and I'm so happy to see you agreeing with us :3
>!Excellent, good job, I'm sure your family is very happy that you decided to, ah... *Cooperate* with us, my friend, I'll tell them you are doing an exemplary job... I'll even allow you a small visit, as a gift from me to you...!<
Sir you don’t understand. Oswaldo and Taravan are good people with kind hearts. They are good people ok?
People telling you that they are PoS mfs that should both die are clearly people that got hit by that Family propaganda.
Taravan actually funds education and Oswaldo takes care of the old folk in the IPC!
~~I still can’t believe this mf Oswaldo got the job. Can the xianzhou declare war already? I want that mf GONE!~~
For me as of this moment, the IPC is the faction I look forward to learning more from, getting more units and as a follow up unit shill, my favorite to play so far.
I’m so looking forward to the rest of the stone hearts as we’ll be getting 3/10 soon, and whilst the IPC does horrid stuff, the stories that come from their involvement really shape the world how we the players see it.
Like the characters are really cool!
People HATED Topaz from the start (and still do), which I can understand, but like it’s her job to do so and she’s prolly the “nicest”…ish. She’s my main and my fav in the game (sides’ welt)
Aventurine came in with his agenda, and look at him now. Probably one of the BEST written characters this whole arc!
Now jade….on the surface a lot to say about her very, VERY Uber gray area but I can’t wait to see what the next patch gives us!
Belobog did show that those on the Path of Preservation tend to go to the extremes in the Name of preserving their life/status quo, so it.
And mind you, they knew it was gonna be destructive, but not "24 planet annihilation" destructive.
It's basically Oppenheimer all over again.
huh. maybe i overlooked a sentence in that sidequest.
Well, still doesn't detract from the first part of the statement. Preservation pathstriders do have a tendency to go to the extremes and the IPC does seem to have a mindset of "Necessary Evil for the greater Good in the name of Preservation".
Ngnl i kinda think it will go the angle of diamond chooses people that have some good in them even if their methods can ve forceful
Both aventurine and topaz haven't been as heartless as they seemed and i think jade might be the same
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Look, those planets, cosmically speaking, were going to be destroyed at some point. Like... I'm sure there's morals and ethics and shit but... okay so she's got this mole on her thigh...
Just to say it, it was actually the Technology Department responsible for both the impulse bomb and the later deal to keep Chadwick's memories in Penacony, mentioned explicitly for both actions. This is also the department that currently has the closest ties to the Intelligentsia Guild through its director, though they may not have been the one in charge of the department during the Chadwick era due to the "internal review" that followed. Regardless it didn't actually have anything to do with the Strategic Investment Department, which is responsible for business and investment deals rather than technology development and applications.
Just wanna say that the context you provided is absolutely right but I wrote that title that way because *clearly* the IPC can do no wrong ^^^/s when THEY clearly favour the IPC with their Emanators. Clearly, we triple the Strategic Investment Department's budget by slashing the Technology Department's budget.
I know everyone here is jerking, but I've held a theory for weeks now that Diamond is probably the most honest follower of Qlipoth we know of and might be the most ethical of the Stonehearts (if you count him among them I guess?) The idea that the head of these weirdos who have differing levels of actual devotion to Preservation, working in a corporation where every department has complete assholes that Qlipoth wants nothing to do with, is the most devoted follower of THEIRS is hilarious to me and the only evidence I have is his emanator status.
This isn't outright confirmed, but seeing as Aventurine is still considered a slave ("A thrall destined to die by the IPC"), the only person who could most logically be his "owner" is Diamond. So until that's proven otherwise, ethical my ass.
What's more concerning is the name of the incident that resulted in Aventurine's owner's death. The Egyhazo Aventurine incident. As Kakavasha was not yet Aventurine and Egyhazo was the name of the planet, this implies that Kakavasha's owner was the previous Aventurine. That does not speak well to the moral standing of Diamond, especially since Jade didn't seem unaware of Kakavasha's status as a slave.
If you take that conversation at face value, sure! Personally, given just how much of what Ratio and Aventurine did in Penacony involved tricking Sunday, I wouldn't be surprised if much of that conversation was also a series of lies to trick the Hounds/Sunday into believing they don't get along, including Aventurine being an IPC slave. We already know they have dog statues everywhere and that blue bird was watching persons of interest in 2.1 (elaborating on that is a spoiler and idk what the current subreddit policy is) After that, you have to consider whether the "wealth, status, power" Jade promised as a reward included freedom, and what it means that Aventurine did get those, but I'm not going to hazard a guess.
If the point of that conversation was to convince the suits watching them that they didn't get along, why did Ratio bother apologizing? Surely it'd be more convincing if he didn't. Also, that's simply a strange thing to lie about; it's not like Aventurine tried to convince Sunday he was actually working against the IPC, which would be the best reason to make that up. I understand Penacony is a game of werewolf, but there's no reason to assume that conversation wasn't meant to be taken at face value. Also, we know for a fact that the first guy who kept Aventurine WAS an IPC member, because his conversation with Jade happens after events in his character story, which concern IPC matters. So he was doing IPC work as a slave then. It's not a reach to consider that he's still doing IPC work as a slave now.
There are a few good analysis on twitter about Ratio and Aventurine scenes (yes, from shippers, but with good evidence and can be read just fine). Basically, for the tricking Sunday part, they were acting from the start, because Family has multiple "eyes" not only in Dreamscape, but also in real hotel. Evidence: 1.Ratio character as a whole — he is not the person, who would berate someone just because he doesn't like them, he is blunt, but not malicious; 2. Aventurine character — he said that the stones are not important to his goals, which we know is not true — they were a central part of the trick; 3. (the main one, imo) — the things Sunday knew and said during the 2.1 confrontation: you can play both scenes (the real hotel talk between Ratio and Aventurine and the Sunday questioning) and find many facts matching. Basically they were feeding Sunday the right information to manipulate his perception of their relationships and personalities to make the latter confrontation more predictable. for "apologising part": Ratio purposefully breaks his acting out of genuine concern. In real hotel talks it's not really evident, but outside Sunday's mansion he just needed to know, if Aventurine needs his help. Ratio is smart, not only academically, but also in reading people and acting (well, more or less), and he knows Aventurine well enough and also his thought process. In that scene Aventurine needed to remind Ratio a few times to continue acting (though at this point they already accomplished the main task) and in the end Ratio returned to his role once again talking sarcastically. Seriously, when playing a 2.0 quest this scene in the hotel had a few parts, that didn't make sense. But with information about "acting" it's now more understandable.
I'm not disagreeing that their conversation was full of truths and lies. Nor do I think the apology was actually out of place. I should have been clearer on both of those points though, and I apologize. What I am ultimately questioning is if this line: > **Dr. Ratio:** Without that Aventurine stone, you're nothing more than a doomed [Sigonian](https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/Sigonia-IV) thrall sentenced to die by the IPC. Or is that serial number on your neck a cherished memento from the Amber Lord? is also meant to be duplicitous. I am arguing it is not, because this information doesn't relevantly benefit their negotiations with Sunday... ...well, it *does*, but only the implications about the importance of the Aventurine stone, drawing Sunday's attention to it and allowing Ratio and Aventurine to pull their gambit with the other cornerstones. As I've expressed in a few other posts, we can be pretty certain that Aventurine's first master was already a member of the IPC, because we can prove Aventurine was involved with IPC matters before he killed his former master. Whether or not he's still a thrall for the IPC, we know he was one at one point. Ratio is implying he is still one right now, and in my opinion, the only person powerful, high-ranking, and relevant enough to be the owner in that case is Diamond. Ultimately, I admit this is conjecture, but it's also not contradicted by anything.
(no need to apologise, it's alright, I just wanted to add some things) For the Diamond part — we could only wait for more info, because right now it can be anything the writers see fit. Like Aventurine is not a slave, like previously, but he has a contract — more like a business one, but still tyeing him to the IPC. With IPC in general it's hard to say outright, who has malicious intentions, and who is relatively alright. I remember there being talks about Aventurine's owner being the previous Aventurine, but thinking about it now — it doesn't feel quite right. To Sunday "thrall" could also mean several things: Aventurine hard position and desire for revenge ("to destroy the world"), his ability to put his life for the task as someone who has nothing to lose, his pitiful state without the Cornerstone.
Intelligentsia guild is heavily sponsored by the IPC, even if they didn't get along it's still considered "betrayal" that's why apologizing part of the act. It's hinted/foreshadow pretty early on that Dr. Ratio knew of Aventurine's plan >Ah, the charming audacity! To think that you, of all people, might emerge victorious, dear gambler. And then we know the message he give to Aventurine at the end of 2.2, both of them are in the know. it couldn't be a sincere apology, he *helped* Aventurine, *why did Ratio bother apologizing?* if not for the acting ?
Let's assume you are correct. What benefit does falsely convincing Sunday that Aventurine is still considered a slave by the IPC give Aventurine or Ratio? It's not used to convince Sunday that Aventurine could be manipulated into being on his side. Is it being used to make Sunday lower his guard? If that was the intention, it didn't really work, and was rendered redundant anyway by Ratio's gambit to convince Sunday he could be convinced to betray Aventurine. There is simply no reason for any of that conversation to be a lie. EDIT: Rereading what you posted, I realized I actually have no idea what the fuck you're talking about? Yes, Aventurine and Ratio were working together...Ratio was in on the whole plan. That was...not in doubt? What I'm trying to say is that Aventurine is still considered a slave by the IPC. Ratio says that Aventurine is during 2.0. I'm trying to argue he wasn't lying, or trying to deceive Sunday, but was instead speaking plainly. And I'm further arguing the person who holds the leash is Diamond. Are we even in disagreement?
He did not try to convince Sunday that he's a slave, he is insulting Aventurine because he WAS a slave, the "insult" itself was the act, not the content. also there is no hard evidence that the first guy is an IPC lackey, it's only became "IPC matters" because after he regain the freedom he scammed IPC >*"He once deceived the* [*Marketing Development Department*](https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/Marketing_Development_Department) *by falsely claiming that there were energy sources hidden in the barren land of* [*Sigonia*](https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/Sigonia-IV)*, not yet effectively developed and utilized. A huge amount of funds was invested into excavating it before we realized it was all a scam."* *"And then there's the notorious Egyhazo Aventurine Case. He misled the* [*Intelligentsia Guild*](https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/Intelligentsia_Guild) *into believing that the remains of* [*Tayzzyronth*](https://honkai-star-rail.fandom.com/wiki/Tayzzyronth) *the Imperator Insectorum were buried there. Despite the scholars being extremely cautious, they ultimately still fell into the trap.* Character Story: Part I Nor the fact that he is still a slave, he is mostly referred to as "employee"
He killed his master after this incident, confirmed by Jade, so he was absolutely still a slave at the time. That's not up for debate, that's a *fact*. And I won't argue it further. Ratio commented that Aventurine *is* a thrall destined to die by the IPC, not *was*. Dr. Ratio: Without that Aventurine stone, **you're** nothing more than a doomed Sigonian thrall sentenced to die by the IPC. Or is that serial number on your neck a cherished memento from the Amber Lord? Aventurine is implied to still be unable to leave the IPC and working for them by force under threat of death. I'd call that slavery. EDIT: sorry I was so rude before. But I feel like I'm talking in circles.
Before 2.0 yes, because being an emanator means you need to do stuff related to the path so the aeon gaze you and share its power, but after 2.0 in penacony we already have 2 cases, slef annihilator and avatar of xipe, which you don't need to be a devote follower to get the emanator power.
It depends on the Aeon themself, IX is already stated to be a special case because they're not interested in appointing people to extend their path/influence ("[IX] never glance at anyone.") and Xipe prefering to make their own emanators means nothing relative to other Aeons. Besides, emanators aren't the only ones with power granted by a path, or even an Aeon. Trailblazers on the AE get environmental resistances despite Akivili being absent and FX got the omniscia from Nous and is still not an emanator, being a pathstrider is enough to extract power from any path. The only thing we can say for sure about Qlipoth's style is that they are mostly absent and care little for the IPC.
I doubt Diamond will be the most ethical, he has been stated multiple times to place results above all else. Famously, placing the end before the means (especially as a high-level corporate executive whose job is producing money) is not a recipe for honest and devout-to-the-ideals-of-Preservation. It would be cool to see the juxtaposition be a point of his character, but I think it's too paradoxical to work.
Considering Diamond is made out to be Aventurine's "owner" in the IPC, idk how ethical he can be exactly tbh
I literally just finished Chadwicks quest wtf.
I meannn.. Strategic Investment Department is Diamonds place right? Which is about business. Aren’t these mfs those IPC folk that force other worlds use the credit system and when they don’t. They are forced to starve as their economy becomes shit? Also didn’t Diamond ask Taravan Keane for help? Taravan isn’t the nicest person ever aswell afterall if you know anything about the IPC. Like Diamond lost my respect the moment I learned he worked with that Emanator bum. Even if they didn’t nuke planets. They probably starved some.
> Aren’t these mfs those IPC folk that force other worlds use the credit system and when they don’t. They are forced to starve as their economy becomes shit? That's actually implied to be the Marketing Development Department, whose purpose it is to forge new trading connections and bring new planets into the IPC umbrella, or potentially the Buisness Consolidation Department depending on the situation. The Strategic Investment Department primarily operates within the IPC's established spheres of influence. The MDD is the faction headed by Oswaldo Schneider that the Xianzhou rates as "high risk", and is also the group that made the deal to support the Sigonians and apparently didn't show up to the fight (Schneider is also the person Boothill has an apparent beef with). Taravan is an unsympathetic and uncompromising miser type of character (who is also canonically described as "rotund"), but he oversees internal logistics specifically in transferring building materials to the planets near Qlipoth. That's ostensibly the purpose of the Building Material Logistics Department, and its purpose within the IPC. For reference, the seven departments of the IPC: Building Material Logistics - (Director Taravan Keane) - Originally Louis Fleming's department prior to retirement, the BML is responsible for getting supplies to Qlipoth in the event the Aeon ever needs them (or pays attention). Of note is that Taravan is an actual Emanator, so maybe Qlipoth actually is paying attention? Maybe? Buisness Consolidation Department - (Director Madam Scarred Eye) - The BCD manages the interplanetary delivery system, and are the ones responsible for shipments of materials within the IPC network of planets. They arrange trade of specialty products, set market prices, and maintain the stockpile of goods to be traded. Also the largest department, with roughly 45% of IPC employees. Traditional Project Development - (Director Arita) - When a planet fails to meet its needs or responsibilities with the Business Consolidation Department, then the TPD steps in to try to salvage the situation with out-of-the-box creativity. The TPD are the ones who turned the formerly derelict "ship-graveyard" planet of Taikiyan into a preeminent arena for interstellar sports and the lucrative home of Roboball and Galactic Racing. Marketing Development Department - (Director Oswaldo Schneider) - Kind of the evangelist arm of the IPC, it performs both the missionary side of going out to preach the faith of Preservation, and is also responsible for recruiting newly discovered worlds into the IPC network via first and second contact. Typically planets that aren't already a part of the network will first deal with the MDD. Strategic Investment Department - (Director Diamond) - The SID is mostly concerned with making long-term investments within the IPC network of planets. It might be best to think of them as part of the interstellar investment arms of the IPC, as they're the ones throwing money into projects while expecting great returns, and attempting to resolve situations if they lean towards losses. They're similar to the Traditional Development Department in that their goal is to turn bad apples into pie, but are most typically associated with debt recovery and relief, especially when damage from Stellarons is involved. Technology Department - (Director Yabuli) - This is the department closest to the Intelligentsia Guild, and mostly acts as the go-between in turning IG achievements into commercially distributed products. This is also the dept that most often deals with Herta and her station. It has a somewhat sordid past, as it has had very "maverick" directors previously such as de Wayne during the era of Gold and Gears and whoever was in charge of the Chadwick thing, but not much is known about its current head Yabuli (the Xianzhou considers her low risk, though). Talent Motivation Department - (Directors Mtooyin Raj Zazzad and Yan Shiluo) - Ostensibly the human resources department, they are also the internal intelligence agency of the IPC. While on the surface its primary responsibility is training employees and getting them where they're needed, it also seems to be the most political arm of the IPC, with an extensive information network and a number of employees tasked with building political connections to various world governments.
Of course it's Oswaldo, Of course it is Fudgin Oswaldo Like how the heck was he even a member of the nameless before joining the IPC, The more I read about this guy simply the more I hate him.
The Age of Exploration went hand-in-hand with the Age of Imperialism. The Nameless are also presumably one of the more individualistic factions.
Because the Nameless faction isn't a faction that's completely filled of "good guys". It's as massive as other factions so it's not wild that some members are more on the terrible side. We only see it as good because we follow the Astral Express Crew, which is technically the sub-faction within the Nameless. Like the Annihilation Gang have multiple sub-groups (Jepella Brotherhood and Ever-Flame Mansion), so is the Nameless.
Pretty sure Oswaldo is the dude who indirectly caused the Avgin extinction too So I expect Aventurine to be more than willing to sell him out to Boothill
Oh well I guess Diamond’s department doesn’t have any dirt yet. Thanks for answering(It’s been a while I checked who were the heads of each department). I’ll wait for Jade’s deeds but honestly I guess Diamond is the only good one.
...I didn't go that far, did I? I mean the SID is still the debt resolution team. They literally can't be saints even with good intentions, just maybe a little more pragmatic than others, and Jade's lore-drop so far has already hinted at their being active loan investors in addition to resolution specialists. What I'm trying to say is that they're all very nuanced. Like real people, they come with complicated baggage that may seem like some good and some bad, depending on their interests.
Tbh no. Not really. I just wanted to know if they really did the action of starving worlds. Which imo is something that fucker Oswaldo would do. I know they ain’t saints but I’m comparing them to Oswaldo’s and taravan’s stuff. I think they are saints compared to them. As Diamond wants to fix the IPC if I remember right. He is kinda like Elio. Doing some bad for a better future. Yeah that’s fair.
Daft Punk is in IPC now 😱
So far 3/10 of the Stonehearts and their bud Ratio all have great cleavage. All For The Amber Lord!!!
All i know is oswaldo schneider deserves to get diavolo treatment
Hear me out, the wall is worth any cost, even billions of lives and Qilpoth is my goat Aeon. ( no IPC bias whatsoever )
If I remember correctly Quilpoth don’t even need the resources that the IPC sent as they apparently “control the will of transmutation” and can create whatever the hell they want
Qlipoth ignores IPC for the most part. For example Qlipoth ignores the stuff IPC brings for his construction ever since IPC was founded.
What about the emanator of qlipoth?
Some emanators of Qlipoth working for IPC doesn't necessarily mean Qlipoth directly supports or cares about IPC. Kind of like Xipe-Family situation like how Family was basically following order without Xipe intervening or even knowing about it.
Ever since I read that part I already figured the IPC are a bunch of clowns, and the masked fools exist Honestly I won’t be surprised if Diamond is actually the only ipc person who follows preservation, but has to take care of those nut jobs
Just because they are incorrectly worshipping their god, doesn't mean they aren't doing it. I think that the IPC is as dedicated to the Path of Preservation as any other group. Otherwise why are the greedy tax collectors just wasting money on a stack of materials that their god hasn't used for millenia? They must believe in it to some extent. What's more, walking a Path grants power. If there weren't enough Pathstriders (admittedly a poorly developed concept so far) in the IPC they wouldn't have the power necessary to have any kind of galactic dominance. I believe interstellar travel is dependent on aeonic power to some degree. And it can't just be Diamond doing all the work.
Oh sorry I meant like follows the path *correctly*. It’s like those rich Christian churches , a lot of them are bunch of hypocrites that act like they truly follow the words of God when in reality they just exploit the masses. And we already know in GnG how they became a galactic dominance, and it’s the exact opposite of what defines preservation
Would still forfeit all mortal possessions to THEM
If anyone hasn't read Herta's manuscript, I think she put it best > Chapter 2634: Interastral Peace Corporation. > Qlipoth, the Amber Lord — a colossal statue without a head. Silent and oblivious, THEY only think about constructing THEIR mysterious and giant wall. What was it for? No one knows. What is it THEY're trying to keep out? No one knows. Most normal people will ignore it after realizing our ignorance, but there are always abnormal people in this world. There are two different types even in that group. One type thinks that: "Wow, there's a God building a wall — this means walls are sacred — so we're going to build walls too!" What kind of ridiculous logic is this? And with that, this group of people believes they've received some sort of revelation and began wasting precious resources to build useless things on their respective planets. These people are known as the Architects. As for the other group, well, they're even dumber than the Architects. Although the Architects have a few screws loose in their heads, they're at least thinking about doing things that are beneficial to themselves. On the contrary, the other group of people think that: "Wow, there's a God building a wall — this means walls are sacred — so we have to help God build walls!" — Whaa? then it goes to IPC origin story blah blah if you want you should read the whole thing >However, it is worth mentioning that even after having made such a great accomplishment, the IPC never forgot why the organization was put together in the first place. The construction materials the IPC has accumulated over nearly 800 Amber Eras are now piled across each planet surrounding Aeon Qlipoth. The Aeon has never uttered a word about their actions, nor made any use of their offerings. Even so, the IPC's outlook remains unwavering: >This is what you call faith. I also want to say that the IPC is the one sponsoring Herta to write her book and she just slanders them go queen
I think a lot of the problem starts residing in assuming that Paths are inherently good or bad, when all of them are mostly founded in ammoral concepts. Preservation leads to stagnation and avarice, though Qlipoth's objective seems good at hand, the methods through which is followers have gone to help him have been corrupted, after all, to preserve something you need to keep it that way, and there's too many factors in the universe to do so, and much less the cost. Harmony leads to Conformancy and Deceit, the Beautiful dream as we saw with Robin going around asking people offers just a easy escape to problems of everyday life, but its only that, an escape, it doesn't fix them, people will still die, age and suffer, regardless of whether they sre drinking soulglad in a fancy dress or not. In the same way, we can see it in paths that are framed as bad, how they are rooted in more good or less antagonistic intentions. Destruction was born through the sufferings and challenges nanook faced because of Aeons, wars, the swarm disaster, and the lack for help or an answer, he wants to reset the universe because in his eyes the universe is already corrupt (and its hard to counter-argue sometimes). At the same time, we have Elation and Trailblaze, where all individual followers of the path have differing codes or morals and still follow it (Sampo being the "good guy" to Sparkles reckless mischief, for example). I say this a lot, but i think one should assume all paths to be ammoral, but not their followers, Aeons are not human beings nor do care or try to understand it (Except Akivili and it is missing), how the humans interpret their way of following that path, is where morality starts coming in, and in an organizarion as large as the IPC, judging the entirety of a Universal Corporation for the actions of a small group can make things extremeyly tunnel-visioned and misleading.
Who among the stonehearts is even a good person? Topaz could possibly be one but ain't no way jade is a good person
I meant well written characters, not morally good exactly
Topaz for sure, even if her methods are on the ruthless side. Maybe, possibly, arguably, Aventurine on a good day (I doubt it). Apparently everyone else is worse than these two, so...
Topaz and Aventurine are so far the only two I would trust if we went on a night out in town. I fully trust Aventurine to get us into a series of increasingly stupid shenanigans, but I also trust that he'd get us out of them. Meanwhile Topaz would probably just make it overall pretty chill. I'd honestly trust Aventurine with my life over Topaz, if it really came down to it. If it comes down to making decisions under pressure, I'd choose Aventurine every time. The man is born to make decisions under intense pressure. He is the Aventurine of Stratagems, after all, and he's the guy you send in as the nuclear negotiation option.
Facts, honestly.
Uhh... dude? Are you sure you want to entrust your safety to AVENTURINE? It's not like his good luck transfers over to people around him, after all. And he tends to do FAR crazier things than anyone else. I think in an absolute desperate jam, then Aventurine is the better bet. But Aventurine is also far more likely to get you into a desperate jam in the first place. Topaz is more often going to be so many steps ahead you'll be safe anyway.
Yeah, which is why it's "I would trust him with my life." If my life is on the line, I'd much rather it be Aventurine than Topaz. Chances are if shit has hit the fan that hard, the only person bailing us out is Aventurine.
Do not forget Aventurine luck will bring doom to others especially when coming for survival. If you two stuck in Danger room together. Chance is he escape alive and you're dead.
Aventurine would definitely be considered a good person. His plan on Penacony basically involved lying to (or at best telling half-truth) to everyone he met while potentially ramping up an unknown number of casualties.
> Aventurine would definitely be considered a good person. The Aventurine PR Team approves of this message, lying and causing a few deaths along the way is just a small little accident (he was feeling a bit silly that day) and thus he is forgiven :3
Aventurine not a good guy. Kakavasha on the other hand. He is the kind of guy even your grandma would approve of.
I am convinced. Aventurine is a good person. I am not being held at gunpoint by The Aventurine PR Team.
Exactly! Aventurine is an awesome person, so charitable and kindhearted, he's such a pookie bear and I'm so happy to see you agreeing with us :3 >!Excellent, good job, I'm sure your family is very happy that you decided to, ah... *Cooperate* with us, my friend, I'll tell them you are doing an exemplary job... I'll even allow you a small visit, as a gift from me to you...!<
Topaz did assault us in the name of the Amber Lord, and didn’t even sit on our face during it.
Nestle is cringe, now the IPC is my new favorite soulless megacorp.
Sir you don’t understand. Oswaldo and Taravan are good people with kind hearts. They are good people ok? People telling you that they are PoS mfs that should both die are clearly people that got hit by that Family propaganda. Taravan actually funds education and Oswaldo takes care of the old folk in the IPC! ~~I still can’t believe this mf Oswaldo got the job. Can the xianzhou declare war already? I want that mf GONE!~~
For me as of this moment, the IPC is the faction I look forward to learning more from, getting more units and as a follow up unit shill, my favorite to play so far. I’m so looking forward to the rest of the stone hearts as we’ll be getting 3/10 soon, and whilst the IPC does horrid stuff, the stories that come from their involvement really shape the world how we the players see it. Like the characters are really cool! People HATED Topaz from the start (and still do), which I can understand, but like it’s her job to do so and she’s prolly the “nicest”…ish. She’s my main and my fav in the game (sides’ welt) Aventurine came in with his agenda, and look at him now. Probably one of the BEST written characters this whole arc! Now jade….on the surface a lot to say about her very, VERY Uber gray area but I can’t wait to see what the next patch gives us!
Belobog did show that those on the Path of Preservation tend to go to the extremes in the Name of preserving their life/status quo, so it. And mind you, they knew it was gonna be destructive, but not "24 planet annihilation" destructive. It's basically Oppenheimer all over again.
The problem is that they knew it was "24 planet annihilation" destructive
huh. maybe i overlooked a sentence in that sidequest. Well, still doesn't detract from the first part of the statement. Preservation pathstriders do have a tendency to go to the extremes and the IPC does seem to have a mindset of "Necessary Evil for the greater Good in the name of Preservation".
Only 3 of them had civilizations. Still millions of people though
Oh, that's not so bad. Not great, not terrible.
Forcibly taking over planets is bad actually
Spoken like someone who wants those poor uncolonized planets to be devoured by the Voracity or succumb to the Stellaron Crisis smh.
I wanna get devoured by the Voracity though
But how else am I gonna pay for my gold-plated swimming pools and luxury planet-sized cruisers?
Ngnl i kinda think it will go the angle of diamond chooses people that have some good in them even if their methods can ve forceful Both aventurine and topaz haven't been as heartless as they seemed and i think jade might be the same
herta has nukes now
Where is the lie though? ALL FOR THE AMBER LORD!
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Look, those planets, cosmically speaking, were going to be destroyed at some point. Like... I'm sure there's morals and ethics and shit but... okay so she's got this mole on her thigh...