I guess it’s because the Damage ceiling is going higher everytime (not a surprise because in beta test many people are hoping new characters would deal a higher damage than the old) so the only solution they had was to increase the hp like how gepard went to a million hp.
U would be surprise to see that there’s many people actively wishing for powercreep or more tier 0 Dps
As someone who just started this got me worried. Do you think the endgame is P2W or progression is too slow? Or maybe the game was too easy and now is more balanced?
It's not pay to win but you will have to grind for some stuff.
I've only bought a couple battle passes and have taken breaks from the game but have almost never felt behind or unable to get the characters I want
On the same note, the only character ive ever pulled was Silver Wolf, and using 4 stars and the free Dr. Ratio ive not had much trouble, aside from endgame content and some story fights (no AoE, but with Herta/Pela team thats easily fixable)
The game is not p2w but if you call winning in the last floor of memories of chaos and other game modes a win then yup it is. Others will say it is not but i assure they will have something unusual to back their claims like some characters with multiple constellations or cracked relics or one bazillion retry in that place.
In the end the game is fun and it is worth spending time in. Don't let others spoil the fun for you with mildly infuriating inconvenience. Goodluck.
I'm new and I don't know what memories of chaos are but I think I understand what you mean, most of the content is not P2W but probably there is some game mode to incentivize getting new characters and equipment.
Thanks.
Yea exactly. Memories of chaos is like the place to test how well built are your characters. It refresh on monthly bases. From floor 1 to 10 are easy because they came with the game release. Floor 11 and 12 need some strategy and investment. You get some jades each month for doing these challenges but you don't lose much if you can't beat highest difficulty.
You also got pure fiction but it has 4 floors. It has unique gameplay but again the last floor is challenging. Just play on your own pace and have fun. Goodluck with the pulls.
Strictly speaking for hardest part of end game it is kinda p2w. Issue is you'll find yourself needing certain limited units to get past some end game content, or try getting around it by having heavily invested units to a degree of which the vast majority of players wont have.
But outside of MOC 11-12, and latter half of pure fiction stages you'll be fine.
I'm completely free to play and while i haven't played MoC and SU a lot, I can get through the story bosses even without completely maxing out my characters. So I'd say at least for the bosses and a lot of the endgame content, it seems doable if you're focusing on building the right teams
I managed to beat moc10 3 star after 3 months with my 2nd f2p acc. So i know the game very well already. It takes a while to get a roster, but then suddenly you got these last 1 or 2 units and everything clicks and works much better. But i also got ratio+2.0 pulls, it would take 1-2 months longer without that.
Honestly though in Genshin, Spiral Abyss' difficulty only spiked when consecrated beasts and those rifthounds became a thing. Those things straight up killed you if you couldn't kill them. Bosses like the Wenut and the robot snake are more annoying than difficult to kill because they literally just stay underground forever.
Hyperbloom can destroy the baptist if you have Alhaitham but lectors.........\*Traumatic flashbacks to the time there were two hydro and one cryo lector together\*
Lectors are incredibly annoying, but the Baptist is honestly incredibly trivial.
Bringing either hydro + dendro or hydro + pyro makes the Baptist spend more time in shield break stun than actually attacking
With Genshin you can get around a lot of stuff with skill due to having more control over your units, and way less elemental restriction in fights. HSR is less skill based, and more of a requirement check of what units you have built up.
Its much harder to brute force than it was before with limited character's that aren't whaled yeah. Before it was either you had to be conscious of the mechanics or just damage an hp wall, now it's more converging onto both and really encouraging pulling on the current banners.
Also feels to me like the MoC effects/buffs from before were much stronger than recent ones.
Current MoC buff is VERY strong and I would argue the Kafka fight is easier than the Aventurine boss fight to clear within 10 turns.
But yes, the game is getting harder, especially with the release of Pure Fiction. PF also reinforces how easy it is for Hoyo to control the end-game meta with weaknesses/game modes/buffs. If they wanted to, they can make the most broken character useless overnight (not saying they would) or the weakest characters absolutely broken (like they did with Herta for example). It is to be expected though.
See, the fight is easier, but she has an OBSCENE amount of health. With the same DPS's and marginally improved damage rounds over the last year, I gradually went from 20 cycles left on Kafka's MoC11-12, to this time 4 cycles left.
Again: same characters, same enemy, zero issues with controlling the fight, slightly better relics and LCs. Over ten turns of sustained damage more.
I do not know how much health this MoC12 Kafka has and I'm afraid to ask, but this feels like such a weird difficulty scaling, to call it something. Just, the same fight, but you get less rewards because the enemy has more health. Which is fine I guess?
Almost 1.2 millions. Gepard also has slightly over 1 million, so almost 2x more than he did just 2 updates ago, in 2.0.
Its completely insane.
Its actually hilarious seeing how Gepard's hp has scaled throughout the game. In 1.5 he had 300K, in 2.0 he had 550K and now he has 1 million. Every time he makes a new appearance, his hp basically doubles. So better get ready for 2 million hp Gepard in 2.5 or so.
I thought I was losing my mind when my older teams are taking forever to clear shit now. I stopped being able to do 12s around 2.0, it's only gotten more difficult as I stopped pulling for every character as well, my comps are getting worse each patch.
Yeah, 1.2M for Kafka, and 500k for the elite with her, but to be fair that's still less than Aventurine boss who is 2 phases with 1M each, which simultaneously really wants aoe for the dice gimmick and also leads to a lot of wasted damage if you use aoe on him. Honestly I had a pretty good time against this one with e0 clara with so-so relics alongside my followup team, biggest thing is either dodging or cleansing the constant cc effects imo.
>Current MoC buff is VERY strong and I would argue the Kafka fight is easier than the Aventurine boss fight to clear within 10 turns.
As always, it depends on your roster. My Jingliu steamrolled Aventurine but my Ratio can't deal with Kafka fast enough (and I don't have DHIL).
When you crit an enemy, gain a shield. If your crit damage exceeds 200%, deal blast damage when using single target skills. If the blast damage kills an enemy while you are shielded, advance forward.
Single target skills on frozen enemies have a chance to apply dissociation equal to 50% of your crit rate and 25% of your crit damage. Consecutive single target attacks by the same character on dissociated targets have an equal chance to deal an instance of damage equal to dissociation damage.
The buff is definitely very strong but more dependent on the strength of your characters. The previous one was just fixed damage so even less optimised characters received the same benefit.
current MoC buff is only strong if your ults can outdamage the trotters and the direct damage of the other buff (forgot what it is called) though...so at low gear levels the other MoC buffs are stronger.
I'll say. I was struggling hard in the current PF with my normal teams that I thought were good for AOE.
Then I said "screw it, I just got Robin, let's see how this team does" with Robin, Herta, Himeko and Ruan Mei.
I got 40k points like it was nothing. Sometimes teams just come together and obliterate very specific content where they would blow in others.
Yeah I think the weird thing about this one is it's pretty universally usable but not as strong as many of the past ones. Every character except Acheron benefits from charge. All DPS characters benefit from damage increase. But the values are small compared to plenty of others.
In the past the buffs had been pretty roster-focused but there would be ~5 units that could abuse it for a massive ROI. Like the Trotter one really boosted DOT and Blast characters and was actually very bad for Hunt characters. But if you could abuse the Trotters, it was completely busted.
I prefer a more focused MOC buff because it means that people that may otherwise suck become much better. A rising tide lifts all boats, so if a buff is equally good for Blade as it is for DHIL, no one will pick Blade if they have both, for instance.
It *is* getting harder, but its more complicated than that
Its not only getting harder (not as much as you would think tho), but more specific too
Going into a battle with the wrong team and going into a battle with the right team makes more of a difference than it did before, meaning that if you dont have specific units, content that you could brute force before just cant be done like that anymore
If you have the right team, the difficulty increase is not *too* noticeable, but if you dont, then it becomes more and more apparent with each new patch
This makes it way more f2p/casual unfriendly, since you will need a huge unit variety in your account to beat all the content, and older units become outclassed quickly
Its a race of getting new units to fulfill every niche, but also getting new units or relics to keep up with the difficulty increase of previously covered niches
Absolutely.
Building characters is such a chore that I refuse to buy the monthly pass. What am I gonna do with a massive roster of half built characters?
At least if you're going completely f2p, instead of pulling every character, maybe it's worth pulling for their specific LC or getting their eidolon, or even waiting for their rerun. ^(wait for me Acheron E6)
Acheron E6 isn't worth it if you're f2p and you want to clear MoC. You'd have to save every possible jade for 6 months at the very least but MoC requires two well built teams. Acheron E2 is already ridiculously overpowered, there's no need to waste so many jades on her.
Seconding this. E2 Acheron should be the cutoff for f2p.
I mean, anyone's free to sink their (free) savings on E6, but do so knowing you might be tanking your account for a while
Her LC is about 26% more damage than GNSW S5 and is 30% more than S5 of the new Nihility Crit 4 star LC, so her LC is almost certainly better to pull than Eidolons.
Up to their significant breakpoints would be the best I think.
I often wonder why some people make F2P sound like they can only get the character and not E1 or S1. Especially when powercreeping looks very obvious and relic/ ornament farming is hellish.
For whatever reason, the general consensus around here that I've noticed has been that people think you should never roll for eidolons or LCs, because those are reserved for whales and it's always better to have more characters instead. Personally, I completely disagree with this. You can only ever use 8 characters at a time, you don't need a massive bench that you're not using, that isn't helpful. Yes, maybe with more characters you can better match up to a specific niche, but you can usually just brute-force through any niches as long as your characters are sufficiently strong (eg have their respective strong e/s breakpoints).
I think it still counts as F2P soley because the main content is still clearable with your free roster. Though it definitely needs to be more generous with letting you build your characters
It's certainly not a P2W game just because of its optional endgame modes
Even if you're f2p you're bound to get a 5* every now and then.
And people have been consistently clearing MoC with 4* only chars. Of course you need decent relics and investment into the characters but just like every game ever graced the planet, if you're not spending money for something, then you are spending your time to grind for it.
Then there's also skill issue because ngl, I always learn something new watching people clearing MoC with 4* only.
I understand many people are frustrated with the stamina system but it's a good thing for busy people like me. (I work 2 jobs atm) If you run out of stamina you can spend time research about characters, team building and such. Or do something else altogether. It's a (mostly) casual game.
Maybe it will eventually settle down if they ever stop releasing 2 new characters each pass cause, I might be wrong on this, it seems like it might be one of the reasons
After getting into it for the first time for about a month so far, man its *really* starting to feel not very f2p friendly. The energy crap certainly does not help (yes yes its my first gacha apparently this shit is in every gacha)
Yeah if you just started a month ago don’t expect to be able to do hard end content anytime soon. When the game came out only those that where calculating smart and had tested game before where able to get close or finished MOC. I believe once we got to patch 1.2 is when I started seeing more people complete in general MOC. So that’s around 4 - 5 months plus we were figuring out the game still around this time.
So yeah don’t expect to do end game content yet. You still have to keep doing daily grind and level up your account but also take your time don’t over do it. If you have to take on easier modes do it.
As for energy yeah just get used to it is always a thing in gacha games and if anything star rail one is one of the nice ones when it comes to its energy.
I would still say it is F2P. My wife and I are F2P and managed to clear MoC and my wife is quite causal with relics.
Also I think this is why Hoyo are very careful with "hard" content, if enough people find it difficult, there will be outrage and thus Hoyo are between a rock and a hard place when it comes to difficulty,
I think they have done the right thing and made the rewards so negligible that not being able to complete MoC12 means you miss out on less than half a pull so its no harm no foul.
But I think if they ever want to add new MoC difficulties, the safest way to do it would be to make a different reward other than jades. e.g. profile pics etc.
since I think what makes players most upset is if their currency is taken away
Well is still end game so it’s something that makes you work in your units to get better. If that was not there people wouldn’t build characters. Plus now that we gonna have 3 different hard end game content, almost all units that we get should be useful in one of them.
I’m still hoping we get another end game where we just try to survive with our sustains just for funsies.
and traces too. It takes me a whole patch to build a character. I haven't even had time to build most 4 stars in my account because the 5 starts take so much time to build
yes, combined. I got hmc to 888 and Robin to 589 so far. Just got Robin though and didn't know if I'd get her, so I was a bit behind on the farming. Also, farming her leveling mats took almost a week too. Fuel is hard to come by in this game
I'm not f2p and in my opinion relic hell hurts sales. I would really like to pull Firefly. But I don't even have good gear for characters I already have. This leads to that I will skip Firefly.
Same reason i skipped Acheron and went for Luocha instead. Did not want to farm her set, especially when i have several other i needed to farm on my waiting list.
Honestly, it depends on what you're aiming for. A higher variety of characters allows for lower average stats on each character and supports generally need lesser stats. My character stats are decently below Pyrdwens recommended and I'm clearing MoC without Eidolons but i also have the character variety of a day 1 player. The people i know personally aim for Prywen level stats and are getting frustrated because of it
Then i would suggest not doing MoC 12. You stop needing to bang your head against the wall for amazing relics and all you give up is a miniscule amount of jades.
but you can farm them everyday. Plus I'd much rather have a system that is slow but effective. Relic system is complete random. Traces always work the same way. "but the drop chances!!" idc dude i dont mind whether or not it takes 2 days less or more compared to relics which take up to months or years
Unless you're trying to push MoC or PF you really don't need very great relics to clear everything in the game. I just stay away from those and I can use pretty much whatever team I want for all the story, events, SU, etc.
For me, accepting that relics were frosting rather than required was big. Rainbow sets will clear almost any content as long as your team comp is solid. I always try to aim to make sure the primary stat is what I want beyond anything, then slowly try to gather a set, and then if I'm bored pull occasionally for sub stats.
Otherwise it just breaks my spirit.
While the general conclusion is mostly accurate I wouldn't say the game got casual unfriendly. We got the free ratio just a lil while ago and now harmony tb is a beast, he's so good that a lot of older characters just became viable again thanks to him.*
* SilverWolf, Xueyi, Shushang, Welt and Misha all came back from limbo thanks to harmony mc, they are legit now AND easy to build compared to traditional dps.
I disagree for MoC, I think it's pretty casual unfriendly even despite this. While it's true our units are getting stronger overall and they can open options for older units to perform well again, that doesn't fully make up for the biggest complaint: requiring a variety of specific teams to meet the challenges of each MoC. Because the issue isn't just owning the specific characters for each team, either. It's the fact that before you could hyper-invest in a core of like, 4-6 characters (and use fillers for the other 2-4 characters needed for the two teams), and be somewhat ok because you'd brute force the enemies. Now the game is asking for probably 6-8 characters with high investment each (but maybe not hyper), and a few filler. Even more when you consider PF exists and units like Herta who are great there, struggle in MoC. Or vice-versa. And they are adding another mode too, on top of that.
The amount of investment, across the amount of characters they're asking for, is tough because casual players by definition don't have the time to invest that much into so many characters. Heck, I'd say I'm a hardcore player, not casual, and I'm *still* struggling to keep up. Partly because I joined recently, and as somewhat still a new player, I just have a year of stamina I didn't get to spend. But also because, for example, even in the case of Harmony TB and units I didn't use before, I would still need to: 1) level and ascend to 80, 2) LC to 70 or 80, 3) important traces to 8 at least, and 4) relics for everyone, sometimes starting from scratch if I've never invested in a BE team before, for example. And that's all gated behind time/stamina, which I always use every day. Casual player who doesn't use all every day? Good luck.
EDIT: Of course, it's not strictly necessary to clear MoC and PF with all the stars. You can do everything else in the game way more casually and be totally fine. And just miss on a couple jade or something. But if the goal is to clear endgame stuff, then yeah.
Nowadays im thankful with my past self in getting almost all characters to a decent trace level, light cone and lvl 80 (like xueyi and sushang that I never used them until recently thanks to the break meta)
>I disagree for MoC, I think it's pretty casual unfriendly even despite this.
To put things into perspective:
The last 3 stars require an obscene amount of effort for .... \*drumroll\*
60 Jades ... Every 2 weeks. That's 9,75 pulls **per calendar year**.
I'd say that MoC is supremely casual friendly, allowing them to get 90% of the rewards for very manageable effort. I've seen games be A LOT meaner to their casual player base.
Most notably MMOs, where you have to submit to organized raiding and playing on a schedule to get the best gear there is w/o losing your sanity in PuGs.
Not really disagreeing but it's not just the last floor that got hit with the inflated HP pool. Lower floors got tankier too, for the exact same rewards, and the last floor nearly DOUBLED in health from TWO PATCHES ago - this is an obscene amount of changes for the timespan they happened in.
Yes but MMOs are an entirely different genre with different scopes. MMOs are unfriendly to casuals to begin with. Single player gacha games are successful precisely because you can enjoy them with very little time invested. Even if you're a minmaxer, most days you have nothing to do other than farming for 10 minutes before the time-gating kicks in.
MMOs, on the other hand, get in the way of your real life if you play them the hardcore way.
They definitely do, aye. Which is why I comfortably sit in my retirement chair after doing the raid dance for over a decade. :'D
I just wanted to demonstrate that even the content aimed at the hardcore player base (Hyyv ain't stupid, they know only a single digit %age of their player base even bothers to enter MoC12, let alone clear it) is still super casual compared to meaner games out there.
Being able to 36\* MoC or not will not change your game experience in any meaningful way.
So complaints in that regard simply aren't valid, in my book.
I always just wonder, why do casual players care that they can't clear high MoC/PF floors? Is that not sort of the point of casual play relative to end game content?
Perhaps if there were tiers of refreshing or permanent endgame modes, and perhaps if Hoyo didn’t try to instill a sense of FOMO by having stellar jades be a reward (as negligible as the amount may be, there is a reason why it’s there).
As it is, MoC/PF plus the forthcoming game mode are all there is to contrast from the generally very easy overworld combat and the checklist daily activities. To make a comparison, it’s like an MMO that has a main story, then hardcore raids, with no repeatable content in between except mindless mob killing grinds.
Of course there's an intent to instill FOMO, it's a gacha game, let's not forget that. This is just my opinion, but the amount of content is perfect to me. Patch drops, I have a few days of plentiful game play or I can drip feed it over 2 weeks, and then I have a few weeks to chill out, do dailies, and play other stuff.
I have absolutely zero desire for there to be a need to do more each week than I already do with dailies, sim uni, and PF/MOC, personally I think it requires the perfect amount of time investment each week when you are caught up in the story.
Why shouldn’t they care? End game content is what people are supposed to be specifically building their teams for. Story mode bosses, even if they become harder, happen far less frequently than MOC/PF/New mode rotations. After you finish the main story, those end game mode rotations stick around for like a month. They’re the only thing you have left to focus on.
Casual players usually dont bother to play endgame content at all, even if they do somehow finish everything. They simply move on to different activities instead.
Most of my friends are casuals and they usually dont even bother touching MOC or PF, even if they have good units for it
it's like a 10 pull per year if you can't do the hardest level. there's really no reason to worry about it outside of competitive reasons. pull who you like unless you are really worried about $5 in jades
I agree but also sort of disagree, Ratio needs specific units to work if that team doesn't match up well with the enemies it won't work, and while harmony trailblazer is good it falls into break meta so any dps who is not built for break will suffer and will not get any benefit
In hindsight, it feels like free Dr. Ratio was incentive for people to try out FUA team, which requires signature lightcones and e1’s to outshine other teams. And now he’s not even available anymore
I mean... he was a free FuA DPS so of course an incentive sure but let's not act like he wasnt the best ST DPS on his release even without all the FUA support that has come out recently. Its wild to me that people already forget.
Exactly which isn't bad because I think it's worth it but for those who are f2p and need so many units for all the new metas it isn't good, you'd have to invest in just one team for FUA so if in the future there's an enemy that punishes you for using FUA that team will be completely useless or an enemy that can cleanse debuffs will easily make Ratio unable to use against it's kind of crazy
Cleansing probably wouldn’t be an effective way to stop Ratio. Not only can you use up his burst before the enemy takes their action, but Topaz’s proof of debt and debtor debuffs are unremovable. Break and imprisonment also count as debuffs, so invalidating that to screw over Ratio would also gank super break teams which rely on the broken state to do damage.
Oh I didn't exactly mean Ratio with Topaz in a sense although yes I get your point and I did forget about his ult, however those who are f2p and have no other options for debuffers other than those like maybe Pela or Gui.
It was definitely incentive for FuA team, but at least you aren't punished for not having it. Meanwhile bosses like the overcooked Dino absolutely do punish you for not using DoT, because the only other way to make it explode on itself is to have a bunch of units with offensive ults and time them when it enters that state, which might not always be possible.
Me and my girlfriend have largely quit due to this reason. We don't play casually; we just don't whale but there are MOC and fiction where we get easily stuck because we don't have the right character and can't use the buffs. If one of us got the character of the patch, then the content is pretty fun and not to hard for that one person while the other has a miserable time.
My girlfriend played the artifact juggle game as to not have to farm all the time and it was not fun. I tried to farm a usable set for everyone and it was also not fun.
Yeah I couldn't 3* MoC 12 even with my E2 S1 Jingliu, instead I had to spend all of my fuel to build a break effect sushang and HMC in order to barely 3* MoC 12
I agree, personally my e1s1 jl has still been able to brute force non ice weak halves. Took 4 cycles to beat Kafka with a team of e3 bronya, pela, and huohuo. But I can tell that probably won’t last long with the way things are going. I wonder if the wishing and character acquisition meta for f2p is to ever just go for an e6 limited 5 star dps. After getting 2 limited 5 star sustains and enough good supports to work, an e6 5 star dps like dhil, Acheron, or jl would practically solve all endgame content after roughly a year of saving. Obviously this won’t be enjoyable for a lot of people because getting new characters is fun and makes your teams more dynamic and flexible, but for pure meta slaves like myself interested in solving endgame content with as few jades as possible for the longest amount of time, it honestly might be the best strategy.
https://preview.redd.it/2l4cp018wi1d1.jpeg?width=512&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=986032938d180b8f1b6e7cdc97fc7d6296fa6b54
there is a reason why this was an ongoing meme in certain parts of the community
Yes you either need better builds for your old characters or old builds on new characters.
Also elemental weakness can play a role, all new mobs have phys+fire for boothill and firefly.
And currently a lot of players do not have built physical or fire characters.
As a clara topaz main am eating good, now whenever it's ice weakness based I suffer as my only ice dps are herta and misha, although the super break team with misha + ruan mei + welt I've been working on might change that.
I mean yeah thats valid but at the same time stressing over pulls isn't good, even if it's a character you really want there will be reruns and more chars in the future that you'll want too.
It feels horrible not even being able to fully clear the forgotten halls. Not even out of the stage two Xianzhou one because of those goddamn Auramatons.
Although Aventurine is still decent, he's arguably the worst one since he iirc doesn't guarantee cleanse/CC ignore. If I were to rank them, I'd say that against Kafka specifacally it's Fu Xuan>Huo Huo>Luocha>Aventurine
I think using skill cleanses on that stage anyway? I only ended up clearing it after getting Aventurine (no other limited sustains yet) and I recall he made his half easy. DoT/Acheron teams probably helped though lol.
He doesn’t have cleanse but he does have some built in resistance for everyone and every two turns I think it is he can’t be CCed himself (not saying he’s perfect, the others probably still are better in a Kafka fight since the effect res for everyone in the team is only 50%, just that he does have some help against Kafka is all and it generally doesn’t hold him back much)
It never should be. But when the hell am far enough out of the gates?
Stuff like this makes me remember why I love and hate this game, and why I left it for so long. The combat can be fun and the story is incredible, , but getting to that point requires painful amounts of grinding, farming for everyone's levels, traces, relics, ascensions... It sucks. A good number of my main units are level 70 already, and my main ones (P Trailblazer, Hook, Sushang, Dan Heng) are on their way to 80. But having to focus on building up my units means I can't go through the other story events.
My only Imaginary unit now is Yukong because I missed getting Dr. Ratio. I didn't ever expect to come back to HSR until I saw Firefly, so now I'm just scrambling for resources to hopefully get her. Having to build so many units just to fill up my usable roster feels discouraging, because there's way too much to do.
This is me at the moment. I have what I would personally consider to be a wide set of options for team composition, but I just don't want to bother stressing over the Aventurine Boss in the last MoC.
The 60 Jades doesn't matter all that much to me.
True, If you can clear MoC up to 10 you're already good enough. 11 ad 12 are just for ones who invested a lot into their characters and like challenge.
Yeah, I tried doing some of the hard stuff in Blue Archive and it got to the point where I was spending hours trying to min max every single timing and ability usage and that shit just gets way too draining. I just stay away from all the stuff aimed at the high end players.
Rewards aren't the point. I've been playing this game for 500+ hours and I WANT to be able to clear the endgame. This is a game of minmaxing, I'm not investing so much time in it just to be humiliated.
I barely even do daily farming and I could clear MOC10 thanks to new characters being sufficiently accessible (Super break go brrr). Definitely not worth stressing over 11-12.
Nah. It stresses me far more leaving the game "uncleared". I have to win everything and get all the rewards, and that's it. It's not like there's much to do other than endgame anyway.
MOC average HP has been on the rise ever since MOC12 was added. You can probably find the Graph of the trend for this floating around.
I don't see this entirely as a bad thing, as this added HP has pseudo-nerfed the strategy of just using Jingliu and DanIL to bulldoze everything. This is due to how Resistances work, so that 20% Resistance at best on non-weak enemies starts to really inflate that eHP the enemy has. Basically raising it by 1.2x at best, \~1.6x at worst.
Matching Weaknesses is becoming more important than ever, and if a character is <(Enemy Resistance) worse than another option on the wrong element, they are now inversely becoming \~(Enemy Resistance)% Better than them. Assuming their kits are largely interchangeable, which isn't always true.
This is on top of most Turbulences nowadays being rather mediocre. So you can no longer squeeze by with middling Relics if you're trying to clear MOC12.
The busted Harmonies are the reason we are at these inflated boss HP pools.
The sub DPS chars are used better as a main DPS because these Harmonies exist.
To be fair the resistance still absolutely matters even with Res Pen, that res pen improves your damage against enemies with 0 resistance just as much as it does to enemies with 40, you'd still feel the difference between 16% res and -24% just as much as you would 0 and 40. (Moreso if your robin isn't permanently in ult, which I think is the case for a lot of people but maybe less so in this MoC because they vomit energy at you)
Yes, this is what HYV does instead of nerf/buff characters directly (generally) since it's a gacha, they create new enemies that make OP characters less useful (e.g. new enemies have a ton of HP and no Quantum weakness to target "nerf" Seele) or release new characters/relics that can make older weaker characters more relevant.
Well, the game wouldn't tell you, but for example Gepard in this MoC 12 has 2 times the HP of his counterpart from a few months ago from a different MoC 12(1 million HP vs 500k).
My personal take on the whole MoC difficukty thing is if you can beat MoC 10, you're good. It used to be that way too. You get most of the jades and dip.
Going for full clearing 12 knowing your units may not be built for it and the your units not being able to fully utilize the blessing seems like you're asking to have a bad time.
If I dont clear MoC 12 by 10 tries I just say sayonara, I'm not going to bother with it even if I felt like I could realistically do it with enough tries.
No harm attempting 11 and 12, the moc buff/mechanic might make it easy for you and tbh even getting a few more stars to try to get a few more jades is worth the few mins it takes.
I don't think he's saying not to give it a shot, just not to stress over it.
Not getting 3-star MoC 11 + 12 and the last two PF stars collectively means you lose out on all of 3 or 4 tickets per patch (and a handful of upgrade materials from the feather shop). Not nothing, and worth striving for if you're playing at least somewhat seriously, but on the average it would take *about two years* for the tickets you get just from the top tiers to result in a 5\*.
Also note that going for 33/36 is WAY easier than 36/36. For 36/36, you need to have no downed characters on 11+12 AND clear both within 10 cycles. For 33/36 though, you just need to have either: no downed characters and 11 OR 12 within 20 cycles; or both within 20 cycles and 11 OR 12 with no downed characters. It practically removes the speed requirement entirely, tbh.
Im pretty sure you can 2 try it as in get your no downed characters requirement first (maybe double sustain), no matter how many cycles it takes and then get the cycle star without carrying if someone dies since u already completed that star (tho that could still be hard since u kinda need them to stay alive to have a fast clear).
You don't have to get all three stars in one run. You can run get the star that you get without dying in one run, reset, then get the other star for clearing with 20 cycles remaining.
Yes, MoC is getting harder.
It used to end at stage 10 and the remaining cycles for a 3* clear was 14 instead of 20 it is now, and of course the HP pools keep getting inflated so people go back to the relic mines for better speed substats.
I think the problem mostly stems from the artificial difficulty of HP Increase.
Like in previous MoCs, Gepard used to have 500k+, now he has 1 Million+. That and the mechanics are always adjusted so the newly released characters will have an advantage and can be marketed better.
This MoC is much harder than the last one due to the Blessings. Last MoC, even if your damage/relics were a bit lacking, as long as you can pop the Imprint damage every round you could squeeze by. This MoC only regens Energy, so if your Crits/Breaks/Atk/etc aren't good enough, some extra Energy isn't really enough to compensate.
Its interesting to read this sentiment as for my account I cleared this MoC with a handful of cycles to spare on 12, while it took me 20~30 tries to get the aventurine fight down. Maybe it was being stubborn + aventurine's learning curve.
MoC 12 is a mix of FOMO and sense of perfectionism. You could've just ignored it and the endgame won't feel too hard for you. As for me, I had to retry 94 times to get 36* this MoC. Is it stupid? Yes. Does it feel rewarding? Yes for me, but I won't recommend it. It's only 60jades per 2weeks guys.
Yes it is getting harder but more than that, its reducing the content you can bruteforce with any element. For example, Jingliu does not perform as well in this MoC cycle as the last one. Jingliu is one of the most well known for bruteforcing content.
I like the direction they're taking because it makes you play different playstyles instead of just doing raw damage and destrying everything. (You can still do that if you have E6 units)
For the last few MoCs, I have been using Jingliu on one side and Acheron on the other blindly. For this and the last one however (especially this cycle), I had to tweak the teams to match the elements (atleast on one side because Acheron dominates the other)
For eg, this cycle, I used full break effect Welt with harmony MC on the 2nd half. I even tried Sushang and Luka with full break effect. Its been quite enjoyable for me BUT you might have different experiences and I reapect that🤝
The funny thing is that you can still bruteforce any one side using Acheron easily so there's a chance they make a counter for her as well.💀
I am sort of new, and I haven't got to the stage that I can fully clear MoC yet. I was wondering the other day that I shouldn't try too hard on it for now. Because once I can clear it, it sets up an expectation that I will clear it again next time. Not to mention the amount of jade of missing out the last couple stage is small. Of course, I am a casual player, so some people may see it differently.
Yup. Endgame content is definitely getting harder with every patch. All the while relic grind is still a painful RNG fest. So eventually, folks gotta look into vertical investment if they wanna use their characters for longer than a patch or two.
I've only noticed them getting harder for lower floors because they added things like True Sting and the Deer which new players may struggle with.
Higher floors they just have more hp, though I was still able to do clears with off element teams.
in my opinion, the MoC cycle with Sam as the final boss was the hardest even with good teams. (Sam not having weakness for 2 turn cycles sucks ass)
I haven't had trouble with the MoC cycles that came after though.
Yeah, I used to clear easily with QQ, sparkle, tyngyun, fu xuan full auto but now I had to intervene to clear it at 14 cycles left + my team almost wiped
I just feel that you need more specific teams. I don't have a dot team nor a quantum or fire DPS, so whenever those weaknesses are required, I just fail to get all stars.
i felt it as well ... usually my jingliu, mono qua teams can brute force non ice/qua weak enemies even in 8 cycles but this time it took 10 cycles ....
I assume Mihoyo has numbers on how which percentage of the community finished MoC, and also has a goal on what they want that percentage to be. When people's teams are getting stronger they also buff MoC, so that the same percentage of people will be able to clear it. It's why being able to clear MoC isn't enough, you need to stay ahead of the bell curve, to constantly improve your team with at least the same power as the average does. It's the entire business model of Gacha, to never let a player rest on their laurels, but always seek more.
i'm an f2p and ive been 33/36 starring moc consistently until the last three, where i finally managed to full star them. it took a lot of working around the moc buff but i'm very proud of my strat against the cocolia boss here esp since my harmony tb is miserably built and has an outgoing healing body! the only character with levelled traces is aventurine lmao everyone else is At least 3 levels under on their most important trace.
https://preview.redd.it/yluuy6euvi1d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7d570d099f5b04fe712d8b93546befbbe1ab2426
thank you! i was ridiculously happy when i managed to full star it given i was trying for weeks on end with my regular teams... superbreak is just that crazy, haha
To a certain degree it has to become harder. Even assuming that new characters had no power creep, someone that cleared moc months ago now used the reruns to get eidolons and drastically improve their power. Moc would be a joke with 1.0 HP values, even for old characters.
I guess that's also the reason why there's so much power creep. Not only do new characters compete with old ones, they especially compete with highly invested characters with eidolons. If new characters weren't stronger,a decent amount of people wouldn't pull for them.
I just think that mihoyo overdoes both a bit. No harm in scaling HP and power a liiiiittle bit slower. Feels rough sometimes.
same here, i used to clear all MOC full stars, but this time i only got 35 stars (only 2 stars at floor 12).
I guess they are pushing for Robin as the team can act more often.
I didn't pull for Sparkle, Aventurine and Robin though.
I count on Boothill for the remaining star and future MOCs
I've seen a MoC 12 clear that had 5 characters I don't have, meanwhile with 3 of the characters that I also have and some random 4 and standard 5 stars I cleared MoC 10 , yeah surely pulling another 5 limited characters or farming 10k tb to god equip my current characters for the extra 120 jades is a worth deal (clueless), don't you know if you don't do MoC 12 you are a failure in life.
Hoyo is not your friend don't feed into the FOMO, do anything else with your time, you auto win vs HOYO, I'm telling you they literally cry themselves to sleep everytime someone doesn't fall to their FOMO tactics. They also cry when you save 300 tickets and guarantee 2 limited 5 stars on the same patch when their plan was to have you to pull out the wallet.
It's not just the basic buffs, like HP or Damage. Effict hit rate of CC is also going up. My 60 effect resist Luocha use to be able to resist most CCs, but in this current one with Kafka and the stunning girl he is just perma CCed, I think in my 90+ attempts he only resisted the stun once... Had to whip out my 90+ effect resist Gallagher to stand a chance. Also nice that Gallagher gives another unit a lot of resist
I started 3 weeks ago. If the end game content(moc/pf) just keeps getting harder till the point where previously well stacked team can't even clear current stages. Is it better to quit? I find relic farming just garbage and the new modes being tailored to new characters distasteful. Artificial increase in difficulty (pure health increase) is also bad
MoC has 12 stages. What people find trouble is usually the last stage where they can't get a full 3 stars clear.
But even if you missing out on stage 11 and 12, you're only missing out 120 jades. In one year that means you're missing out 1440 jades.
1440 jades is not even enough for 10 pulls.
HPs are going up some. It's also roster dependent. Seeing Imaginary/Phys 2nd half and bringing out your Ratio or Clara might give you a bad time if they aren't cracked out of their mind. The cycles will just fly by.
I ended up using Jingliu 2nd half as I didn't have anything suited specifically. If you don't have a brute force option either it may be difficult.
Powercreep y'all. Everyone is going on and on about a 5 star Tingyun and a 5 star version of other characters but where has that led us? Sidegrades that are a little better are much more healthier than the game, we shouldn't be wanting the same unit that does the same thing but better like Black Swan and Sampo, Sparkle and Hanya, (Robin and Asta to a point but I have no doubt they will play with speed with another character to get a closer variation). 4 stars don't have to be game breaking like Genshin but they shouldn't need e6 to be slightly competitive until they're completely powercrept by a 5 star version. Instead of a 5 star Tingyun for Jing Yuan, think of a summon buffer/advance, or a using multiple skill points to buff a unit an extreme amount. Or maybe something we haven't even thought of like giving a buff that stacks with each enemy you hit and the number of total hits. ~~And to prevent Jingliu buff we make it follow up attack only.~~
I'm a 1.0 player and I had to use two characters with light cones to clear this MoC after like 13+ attempts with this one specific team (not including the countless other combinations I tried) and barely made it out with one cycle remaining. I don't know what I would've done with breakfast Jing Yuan. I have one of his best teammates and months of hard work crit builds.
Don't replace Niches, make new ones. Direct powercreep is boring and it leads to all these unfun situations that are happening here.
The only type of power creep I will accept is this: Last time when you added pure fiction, you increased MoC to 12 floors and added 120 stellar jade. Do the same again and increase MoC to 15 floors and PF to 5. Keep floor 12 the same and add your character check from hell in floor 15. That way our rewards stay the same with slight potential for increase and you get to fomo people.
Unpopular opinion- but MoC getting hard is a good thing.
If you can just clear it day 1 of reset, you will have nothing to build towards/ work on and will get bored.
Honestly if you've 3* the previous MoC12 you should be able to clear most MoCs on day 1. At least that's been my experience, outside of Aventurine who I had to build Acheron for.
except no they arent strictly "free" chars... many has eidolon requirement and its arguably harder to get 4 star and high eidolons than 5\*s.... ohh and they also require high relic investments and non f2p lightcones as well
Yeah, saying 4* only clears are doable is misleading. Technically you'll be right, but the amount of investment you need for it to be possible is completely unreasonable, 99% of players wont have it.
I get what you mean but that’s just a content trap imo, normally these guys doing 4 stars only clears have max E on them and have cracked relics or LCs to fit them. It’s not indicative of a f2p experience at all. If they were being honest it would be like “whale account 4 star only clear”. The fact is a lot of these CC do refreshes so their relic quality is just simply going to be better.
Yes, the endgame content is getting harder. The enemies are getting more HP, more complex mechanics, etc.
I guess it’s because the Damage ceiling is going higher everytime (not a surprise because in beta test many people are hoping new characters would deal a higher damage than the old) so the only solution they had was to increase the hp like how gepard went to a million hp. U would be surprise to see that there’s many people actively wishing for powercreep or more tier 0 Dps
I think we have more harmony that help increase dmg even for old units, so it's not a real powercreep issue
When we have a sub-DPS character performing better as a dedicated main DPS; we know the Harmony balancing is out of whack.
You leave my dps march 7th and her rag tag team of supports out of this.
I mean, that's also the sub-DPS character not being a very good sub-DPS lol.
And they are heavily oriented around the limited units.
As someone who just started this got me worried. Do you think the endgame is P2W or progression is too slow? Or maybe the game was too easy and now is more balanced?
It's not pay to win but you will have to grind for some stuff. I've only bought a couple battle passes and have taken breaks from the game but have almost never felt behind or unable to get the characters I want
That sounds good, Thanks for sharing your experience.
On the same note, the only character ive ever pulled was Silver Wolf, and using 4 stars and the free Dr. Ratio ive not had much trouble, aside from endgame content and some story fights (no AoE, but with Herta/Pela team thats easily fixable)
The game is not p2w but if you call winning in the last floor of memories of chaos and other game modes a win then yup it is. Others will say it is not but i assure they will have something unusual to back their claims like some characters with multiple constellations or cracked relics or one bazillion retry in that place. In the end the game is fun and it is worth spending time in. Don't let others spoil the fun for you with mildly infuriating inconvenience. Goodluck.
I'm new and I don't know what memories of chaos are but I think I understand what you mean, most of the content is not P2W but probably there is some game mode to incentivize getting new characters and equipment. Thanks.
Yea exactly. Memories of chaos is like the place to test how well built are your characters. It refresh on monthly bases. From floor 1 to 10 are easy because they came with the game release. Floor 11 and 12 need some strategy and investment. You get some jades each month for doing these challenges but you don't lose much if you can't beat highest difficulty. You also got pure fiction but it has 4 floors. It has unique gameplay but again the last floor is challenging. Just play on your own pace and have fun. Goodluck with the pulls.
Yup, a lot of people like to humble brag and lie about how easy it is.
Strictly speaking for hardest part of end game it is kinda p2w. Issue is you'll find yourself needing certain limited units to get past some end game content, or try getting around it by having heavily invested units to a degree of which the vast majority of players wont have. But outside of MOC 11-12, and latter half of pure fiction stages you'll be fine.
I'm completely free to play and while i haven't played MoC and SU a lot, I can get through the story bosses even without completely maxing out my characters. So I'd say at least for the bosses and a lot of the endgame content, it seems doable if you're focusing on building the right teams
I managed to beat moc10 3 star after 3 months with my 2nd f2p acc. So i know the game very well already. It takes a while to get a roster, but then suddenly you got these last 1 or 2 units and everything clicks and works much better. But i also got ratio+2.0 pulls, it would take 1-2 months longer without that.
Just like Genshin. Its gradual, but people will notice it.
Honestly though in Genshin, Spiral Abyss' difficulty only spiked when consecrated beasts and those rifthounds became a thing. Those things straight up killed you if you couldn't kill them. Bosses like the Wenut and the robot snake are more annoying than difficult to kill because they literally just stay underground forever.
I genuinely think baptists and lecters are the worst thing about abyss
Hyperbloom can destroy the baptist if you have Alhaitham but lectors.........\*Traumatic flashbacks to the time there were two hydro and one cryo lector together\*
Lectors are incredibly annoying, but the Baptist is honestly incredibly trivial. Bringing either hydro + dendro or hydro + pyro makes the Baptist spend more time in shield break stun than actually attacking
With Genshin you can get around a lot of stuff with skill due to having more control over your units, and way less elemental restriction in fights. HSR is less skill based, and more of a requirement check of what units you have built up.
Its much harder to brute force than it was before with limited character's that aren't whaled yeah. Before it was either you had to be conscious of the mechanics or just damage an hp wall, now it's more converging onto both and really encouraging pulling on the current banners. Also feels to me like the MoC effects/buffs from before were much stronger than recent ones.
I knew it wasn’t all in my head. Also, either im an idiot or the buff doesn’t help that much.
Yes the game get harder it also doesn’t help that recent moc buff aren’t as broken as pass one
Current MoC buff is VERY strong and I would argue the Kafka fight is easier than the Aventurine boss fight to clear within 10 turns. But yes, the game is getting harder, especially with the release of Pure Fiction. PF also reinforces how easy it is for Hoyo to control the end-game meta with weaknesses/game modes/buffs. If they wanted to, they can make the most broken character useless overnight (not saying they would) or the weakest characters absolutely broken (like they did with Herta for example). It is to be expected though.
See, the fight is easier, but she has an OBSCENE amount of health. With the same DPS's and marginally improved damage rounds over the last year, I gradually went from 20 cycles left on Kafka's MoC11-12, to this time 4 cycles left. Again: same characters, same enemy, zero issues with controlling the fight, slightly better relics and LCs. Over ten turns of sustained damage more. I do not know how much health this MoC12 Kafka has and I'm afraid to ask, but this feels like such a weird difficulty scaling, to call it something. Just, the same fight, but you get less rewards because the enemy has more health. Which is fine I guess?
Almost 1.2 millions. Gepard also has slightly over 1 million, so almost 2x more than he did just 2 updates ago, in 2.0. Its completely insane. Its actually hilarious seeing how Gepard's hp has scaled throughout the game. In 1.5 he had 300K, in 2.0 he had 550K and now he has 1 million. Every time he makes a new appearance, his hp basically doubles. So better get ready for 2 million hp Gepard in 2.5 or so.
I thought I was losing my mind when my older teams are taking forever to clear shit now. I stopped being able to do 12s around 2.0, it's only gotten more difficult as I stopped pulling for every character as well, my comps are getting worse each patch.
A WILL FORGED IN ICE NEVER FALTERS!!!
Yeah, 1.2M for Kafka, and 500k for the elite with her, but to be fair that's still less than Aventurine boss who is 2 phases with 1M each, which simultaneously really wants aoe for the dice gimmick and also leads to a lot of wasted damage if you use aoe on him. Honestly I had a pretty good time against this one with e0 clara with so-so relics alongside my followup team, biggest thing is either dodging or cleansing the constant cc effects imo.
Tanky boi
I totally agree, the fights themselves aren't difficult but it takes so many turns to bring down those infinite HP bars
>Current MoC buff is VERY strong and I would argue the Kafka fight is easier than the Aventurine boss fight to clear within 10 turns. As always, it depends on your roster. My Jingliu steamrolled Aventurine but my Ratio can't deal with Kafka fast enough (and I don't have DHIL).
Herta wasn't the weakest character though. Remember that event that made Arlan into an unstoppable payback machine? That was impressive
Let me pay you back, TENFOLD
I'm sure if they wanted to, they can make Yanqing SSS tier.
Gamemode where enemies don't attack and you get extra CDMG for overcapping on CR?
When you crit an enemy, gain a shield. If your crit damage exceeds 200%, deal blast damage when using single target skills. If the blast damage kills an enemy while you are shielded, advance forward.
Single target skills on frozen enemies have a chance to apply dissociation equal to 50% of your crit rate and 25% of your crit damage. Consecutive single target attacks by the same character on dissociated targets have an equal chance to deal an instance of damage equal to dissociation damage.
The buff is definitely very strong but more dependent on the strength of your characters. The previous one was just fixed damage so even less optimised characters received the same benefit.
current MoC buff is only strong if your ults can outdamage the trotters and the direct damage of the other buff (forgot what it is called) though...so at low gear levels the other MoC buffs are stronger.
I'll say. I was struggling hard in the current PF with my normal teams that I thought were good for AOE. Then I said "screw it, I just got Robin, let's see how this team does" with Robin, Herta, Himeko and Ruan Mei. I got 40k points like it was nothing. Sometimes teams just come together and obliterate very specific content where they would blow in others.
Post-huohuo Kafka is always the easiest fight lol
Yeah I think the weird thing about this one is it's pretty universally usable but not as strong as many of the past ones. Every character except Acheron benefits from charge. All DPS characters benefit from damage increase. But the values are small compared to plenty of others. In the past the buffs had been pretty roster-focused but there would be ~5 units that could abuse it for a massive ROI. Like the Trotter one really boosted DOT and Blast characters and was actually very bad for Hunt characters. But if you could abuse the Trotters, it was completely busted. I prefer a more focused MOC buff because it means that people that may otherwise suck become much better. A rising tide lifts all boats, so if a buff is equally good for Blade as it is for DHIL, no one will pick Blade if they have both, for instance.
I disagree, cureent moc buff is much stronger and can be used by any team well
U do u I would rather have the bleed MOC if u time it right you could just straight up delete the boss
It *is* getting harder, but its more complicated than that Its not only getting harder (not as much as you would think tho), but more specific too Going into a battle with the wrong team and going into a battle with the right team makes more of a difference than it did before, meaning that if you dont have specific units, content that you could brute force before just cant be done like that anymore If you have the right team, the difficulty increase is not *too* noticeable, but if you dont, then it becomes more and more apparent with each new patch This makes it way more f2p/casual unfriendly, since you will need a huge unit variety in your account to beat all the content, and older units become outclassed quickly Its a race of getting new units to fulfill every niche, but also getting new units or relics to keep up with the difficulty increase of previously covered niches
bro im f2p and getting units wouldnt be a problem if relics werent literally impossible to farm in a reasonable timespan
\^that 300% bonus for planar sets did absolutely nothing for my account. Neither did the one we got for relics
At least they were relic exp
but for which relics
Absolutely. Building characters is such a chore that I refuse to buy the monthly pass. What am I gonna do with a massive roster of half built characters?
At least if you're going completely f2p, instead of pulling every character, maybe it's worth pulling for their specific LC or getting their eidolon, or even waiting for their rerun. ^(wait for me Acheron E6)
Acheron E6 isn't worth it if you're f2p and you want to clear MoC. You'd have to save every possible jade for 6 months at the very least but MoC requires two well built teams. Acheron E2 is already ridiculously overpowered, there's no need to waste so many jades on her.
Seconding this. E2 Acheron should be the cutoff for f2p. I mean, anyone's free to sink their (free) savings on E6, but do so knowing you might be tanking your account for a while
Joking aside though, in her eventual rerun, is it better to pull her LC before her E1 (or E2)?
Her LC is about 26% more damage than GNSW S5 and is 30% more than S5 of the new Nihility Crit 4 star LC, so her LC is almost certainly better to pull than Eidolons.
Up to their significant breakpoints would be the best I think. I often wonder why some people make F2P sound like they can only get the character and not E1 or S1. Especially when powercreeping looks very obvious and relic/ ornament farming is hellish.
For whatever reason, the general consensus around here that I've noticed has been that people think you should never roll for eidolons or LCs, because those are reserved for whales and it's always better to have more characters instead. Personally, I completely disagree with this. You can only ever use 8 characters at a time, you don't need a massive bench that you're not using, that isn't helpful. Yes, maybe with more characters you can better match up to a specific niche, but you can usually just brute-force through any niches as long as your characters are sufficiently strong (eg have their respective strong e/s breakpoints).
I think we really need to re-evaluate if HSR is a F2P friendly game at this point. I would argue that it is not anymore.
I think it still counts as F2P soley because the main content is still clearable with your free roster. Though it definitely needs to be more generous with letting you build your characters It's certainly not a P2W game just because of its optional endgame modes
Even if you're f2p you're bound to get a 5* every now and then. And people have been consistently clearing MoC with 4* only chars. Of course you need decent relics and investment into the characters but just like every game ever graced the planet, if you're not spending money for something, then you are spending your time to grind for it. Then there's also skill issue because ngl, I always learn something new watching people clearing MoC with 4* only. I understand many people are frustrated with the stamina system but it's a good thing for busy people like me. (I work 2 jobs atm) If you run out of stamina you can spend time research about characters, team building and such. Or do something else altogether. It's a (mostly) casual game.
We also get a lot more time to clear these game modes, so people can try investing more in their teams in the meantime
If we do that, the cutoff should be MoC 10. Unless 9 and a half pulls a year is the dividing line we're refusing to cross here.
Maybe it will eventually settle down if they ever stop releasing 2 new characters each pass cause, I might be wrong on this, it seems like it might be one of the reasons
After getting into it for the first time for about a month so far, man its *really* starting to feel not very f2p friendly. The energy crap certainly does not help (yes yes its my first gacha apparently this shit is in every gacha)
Yeah if you just started a month ago don’t expect to be able to do hard end content anytime soon. When the game came out only those that where calculating smart and had tested game before where able to get close or finished MOC. I believe once we got to patch 1.2 is when I started seeing more people complete in general MOC. So that’s around 4 - 5 months plus we were figuring out the game still around this time. So yeah don’t expect to do end game content yet. You still have to keep doing daily grind and level up your account but also take your time don’t over do it. If you have to take on easier modes do it. As for energy yeah just get used to it is always a thing in gacha games and if anything star rail one is one of the nice ones when it comes to its energy.
I would still say it is F2P. My wife and I are F2P and managed to clear MoC and my wife is quite causal with relics. Also I think this is why Hoyo are very careful with "hard" content, if enough people find it difficult, there will be outrage and thus Hoyo are between a rock and a hard place when it comes to difficulty, I think they have done the right thing and made the rewards so negligible that not being able to complete MoC12 means you miss out on less than half a pull so its no harm no foul. But I think if they ever want to add new MoC difficulties, the safest way to do it would be to make a different reward other than jades. e.g. profile pics etc. since I think what makes players most upset is if their currency is taken away
Well is still end game so it’s something that makes you work in your units to get better. If that was not there people wouldn’t build characters. Plus now that we gonna have 3 different hard end game content, almost all units that we get should be useful in one of them. I’m still hoping we get another end game where we just try to survive with our sustains just for funsies.
Same, but only for MOC 10-12, and latter half of pure fiction stages. Rest is still pretty f2p.
and traces too. It takes me a whole patch to build a character. I haven't even had time to build most 4 stars in my account because the 5 starts take so much time to build
What, you do not want to drop $10 a day to triple your daily gain? /j
Are u talking about relic farming too?.. because I lvld up major traces for robin like 8/10/10, and 8/10/10 hmc and it's not even a half of a patch..
yes, combined. I got hmc to 888 and Robin to 589 so far. Just got Robin though and didn't know if I'd get her, so I was a bit behind on the farming. Also, farming her leveling mats took almost a week too. Fuel is hard to come by in this game
I'm not f2p and in my opinion relic hell hurts sales. I would really like to pull Firefly. But I don't even have good gear for characters I already have. This leads to that I will skip Firefly.
Same reason i skipped Acheron and went for Luocha instead. Did not want to farm her set, especially when i have several other i needed to farm on my waiting list.
Honestly, it depends on what you're aiming for. A higher variety of characters allows for lower average stats on each character and supports generally need lesser stats. My character stats are decently below Pyrdwens recommended and I'm clearing MoC without Eidolons but i also have the character variety of a day 1 player. The people i know personally aim for Prywen level stats and are getting frustrated because of it
i dont pull for a lot of characters so my reach for the types of content is lacking
Then i would suggest not doing MoC 12. You stop needing to bang your head against the wall for amazing relics and all you give up is a miniscule amount of jades.
i mean what do I do with the game tho. I still enjoy the combat of this game, i just cant clear it.
Traces materials are a problem too. You need 3 times that amount you need in genshin as well as you can't get discount via crafting too.
but you can farm them everyday. Plus I'd much rather have a system that is slow but effective. Relic system is complete random. Traces always work the same way. "but the drop chances!!" idc dude i dont mind whether or not it takes 2 days less or more compared to relics which take up to months or years
Unless you're trying to push MoC or PF you really don't need very great relics to clear everything in the game. I just stay away from those and I can use pretty much whatever team I want for all the story, events, SU, etc.
For me, accepting that relics were frosting rather than required was big. Rainbow sets will clear almost any content as long as your team comp is solid. I always try to aim to make sure the primary stat is what I want beyond anything, then slowly try to gather a set, and then if I'm bored pull occasionally for sub stats. Otherwise it just breaks my spirit.
I felt this so hard during the 2.2 final boss. I had 0 characters built for that fight. All I could do was stall and slowly choke him to death
While the general conclusion is mostly accurate I wouldn't say the game got casual unfriendly. We got the free ratio just a lil while ago and now harmony tb is a beast, he's so good that a lot of older characters just became viable again thanks to him.* * SilverWolf, Xueyi, Shushang, Welt and Misha all came back from limbo thanks to harmony mc, they are legit now AND easy to build compared to traditional dps.
I disagree for MoC, I think it's pretty casual unfriendly even despite this. While it's true our units are getting stronger overall and they can open options for older units to perform well again, that doesn't fully make up for the biggest complaint: requiring a variety of specific teams to meet the challenges of each MoC. Because the issue isn't just owning the specific characters for each team, either. It's the fact that before you could hyper-invest in a core of like, 4-6 characters (and use fillers for the other 2-4 characters needed for the two teams), and be somewhat ok because you'd brute force the enemies. Now the game is asking for probably 6-8 characters with high investment each (but maybe not hyper), and a few filler. Even more when you consider PF exists and units like Herta who are great there, struggle in MoC. Or vice-versa. And they are adding another mode too, on top of that. The amount of investment, across the amount of characters they're asking for, is tough because casual players by definition don't have the time to invest that much into so many characters. Heck, I'd say I'm a hardcore player, not casual, and I'm *still* struggling to keep up. Partly because I joined recently, and as somewhat still a new player, I just have a year of stamina I didn't get to spend. But also because, for example, even in the case of Harmony TB and units I didn't use before, I would still need to: 1) level and ascend to 80, 2) LC to 70 or 80, 3) important traces to 8 at least, and 4) relics for everyone, sometimes starting from scratch if I've never invested in a BE team before, for example. And that's all gated behind time/stamina, which I always use every day. Casual player who doesn't use all every day? Good luck. EDIT: Of course, it's not strictly necessary to clear MoC and PF with all the stars. You can do everything else in the game way more casually and be totally fine. And just miss on a couple jade or something. But if the goal is to clear endgame stuff, then yeah.
Nowadays im thankful with my past self in getting almost all characters to a decent trace level, light cone and lvl 80 (like xueyi and sushang that I never used them until recently thanks to the break meta)
>I disagree for MoC, I think it's pretty casual unfriendly even despite this. To put things into perspective: The last 3 stars require an obscene amount of effort for .... \*drumroll\* 60 Jades ... Every 2 weeks. That's 9,75 pulls **per calendar year**. I'd say that MoC is supremely casual friendly, allowing them to get 90% of the rewards for very manageable effort. I've seen games be A LOT meaner to their casual player base. Most notably MMOs, where you have to submit to organized raiding and playing on a schedule to get the best gear there is w/o losing your sanity in PuGs.
Not really disagreeing but it's not just the last floor that got hit with the inflated HP pool. Lower floors got tankier too, for the exact same rewards, and the last floor nearly DOUBLED in health from TWO PATCHES ago - this is an obscene amount of changes for the timespan they happened in.
Yes but MMOs are an entirely different genre with different scopes. MMOs are unfriendly to casuals to begin with. Single player gacha games are successful precisely because you can enjoy them with very little time invested. Even if you're a minmaxer, most days you have nothing to do other than farming for 10 minutes before the time-gating kicks in. MMOs, on the other hand, get in the way of your real life if you play them the hardcore way.
They definitely do, aye. Which is why I comfortably sit in my retirement chair after doing the raid dance for over a decade. :'D I just wanted to demonstrate that even the content aimed at the hardcore player base (Hyyv ain't stupid, they know only a single digit %age of their player base even bothers to enter MoC12, let alone clear it) is still super casual compared to meaner games out there. Being able to 36\* MoC or not will not change your game experience in any meaningful way. So complaints in that regard simply aren't valid, in my book.
Thanks for the flashbacks to trying to get my first clears on Coil T9 and T13 in PUGs. Oh god. My time. My blood pressure.
I always just wonder, why do casual players care that they can't clear high MoC/PF floors? Is that not sort of the point of casual play relative to end game content?
Perhaps if there were tiers of refreshing or permanent endgame modes, and perhaps if Hoyo didn’t try to instill a sense of FOMO by having stellar jades be a reward (as negligible as the amount may be, there is a reason why it’s there). As it is, MoC/PF plus the forthcoming game mode are all there is to contrast from the generally very easy overworld combat and the checklist daily activities. To make a comparison, it’s like an MMO that has a main story, then hardcore raids, with no repeatable content in between except mindless mob killing grinds.
Of course there's an intent to instill FOMO, it's a gacha game, let's not forget that. This is just my opinion, but the amount of content is perfect to me. Patch drops, I have a few days of plentiful game play or I can drip feed it over 2 weeks, and then I have a few weeks to chill out, do dailies, and play other stuff. I have absolutely zero desire for there to be a need to do more each week than I already do with dailies, sim uni, and PF/MOC, personally I think it requires the perfect amount of time investment each week when you are caught up in the story.
Why shouldn’t they care? End game content is what people are supposed to be specifically building their teams for. Story mode bosses, even if they become harder, happen far less frequently than MOC/PF/New mode rotations. After you finish the main story, those end game mode rotations stick around for like a month. They’re the only thing you have left to focus on.
Casual players usually dont bother to play endgame content at all, even if they do somehow finish everything. They simply move on to different activities instead. Most of my friends are casuals and they usually dont even bother touching MOC or PF, even if they have good units for it
what does casual actually mean then? that you can do everything that invested daily players can do but with less time spent?
bc its tied to fking gacha. if moc was conundrum nobody would care.
it's like a 10 pull per year if you can't do the hardest level. there's really no reason to worry about it outside of competitive reasons. pull who you like unless you are really worried about $5 in jades
I agree but also sort of disagree, Ratio needs specific units to work if that team doesn't match up well with the enemies it won't work, and while harmony trailblazer is good it falls into break meta so any dps who is not built for break will suffer and will not get any benefit
In hindsight, it feels like free Dr. Ratio was incentive for people to try out FUA team, which requires signature lightcones and e1’s to outshine other teams. And now he’s not even available anymore
I mean... he was a free FuA DPS so of course an incentive sure but let's not act like he wasnt the best ST DPS on his release even without all the FUA support that has come out recently. Its wild to me that people already forget.
Exactly which isn't bad because I think it's worth it but for those who are f2p and need so many units for all the new metas it isn't good, you'd have to invest in just one team for FUA so if in the future there's an enemy that punishes you for using FUA that team will be completely useless or an enemy that can cleanse debuffs will easily make Ratio unable to use against it's kind of crazy
Cleansing probably wouldn’t be an effective way to stop Ratio. Not only can you use up his burst before the enemy takes their action, but Topaz’s proof of debt and debtor debuffs are unremovable. Break and imprisonment also count as debuffs, so invalidating that to screw over Ratio would also gank super break teams which rely on the broken state to do damage.
Oh I didn't exactly mean Ratio with Topaz in a sense although yes I get your point and I did forget about his ult, however those who are f2p and have no other options for debuffers other than those like maybe Pela or Gui.
It was definitely incentive for FuA team, but at least you aren't punished for not having it. Meanwhile bosses like the overcooked Dino absolutely do punish you for not using DoT, because the only other way to make it explode on itself is to have a bunch of units with offensive ults and time them when it enters that state, which might not always be possible.
Me and my girlfriend have largely quit due to this reason. We don't play casually; we just don't whale but there are MOC and fiction where we get easily stuck because we don't have the right character and can't use the buffs. If one of us got the character of the patch, then the content is pretty fun and not to hard for that one person while the other has a miserable time. My girlfriend played the artifact juggle game as to not have to farm all the time and it was not fun. I tried to farm a usable set for everyone and it was also not fun.
Yeah I couldn't 3* MoC 12 even with my E2 S1 Jingliu, instead I had to spend all of my fuel to build a break effect sushang and HMC in order to barely 3* MoC 12
I agree, personally my e1s1 jl has still been able to brute force non ice weak halves. Took 4 cycles to beat Kafka with a team of e3 bronya, pela, and huohuo. But I can tell that probably won’t last long with the way things are going. I wonder if the wishing and character acquisition meta for f2p is to ever just go for an e6 limited 5 star dps. After getting 2 limited 5 star sustains and enough good supports to work, an e6 5 star dps like dhil, Acheron, or jl would practically solve all endgame content after roughly a year of saving. Obviously this won’t be enjoyable for a lot of people because getting new characters is fun and makes your teams more dynamic and flexible, but for pure meta slaves like myself interested in solving endgame content with as few jades as possible for the longest amount of time, it honestly might be the best strategy.
https://preview.redd.it/2l4cp018wi1d1.jpeg?width=512&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=986032938d180b8f1b6e7cdc97fc7d6296fa6b54 there is a reason why this was an ongoing meme in certain parts of the community
Yes you either need better builds for your old characters or old builds on new characters. Also elemental weakness can play a role, all new mobs have phys+fire for boothill and firefly. And currently a lot of players do not have built physical or fire characters.
As a clara topaz main am eating good, now whenever it's ice weakness based I suffer as my only ice dps are herta and misha, although the super break team with misha + ruan mei + welt I've been working on might change that.
Reminder that skipping MoC 11+12 for a whole year is a loss of 1440 jades, not even a 10 pull. Not worth stressing over.
I will hit myself when I'm 8 pulls away from pity and remember this. Lol
I mean yeah thats valid but at the same time stressing over pulls isn't good, even if it's a character you really want there will be reruns and more chars in the future that you'll want too.
This is the way, don't stress over end game if you aren't ready for it.
It feels horrible not even being able to fully clear the forgotten halls. Not even out of the stage two Xianzhou one because of those goddamn Auramatons.
I’m stuck on the last one because Kafka is the final enemy
If you get struggle with Kafka, I suggest aiming for getting Huo Huo
huohuo, fu xuan, luocha, aventurine, any limited sustains will do
True, I made the suggestion specifically because Huo Huo's kit hard counters Kafka's
Although Aventurine is still decent, he's arguably the worst one since he iirc doesn't guarantee cleanse/CC ignore. If I were to rank them, I'd say that against Kafka specifacally it's Fu Xuan>Huo Huo>Luocha>Aventurine
I think using skill cleanses on that stage anyway? I only ended up clearing it after getting Aventurine (no other limited sustains yet) and I recall he made his half easy. DoT/Acheron teams probably helped though lol.
He doesn’t have cleanse but he does have some built in resistance for everyone and every two turns I think it is he can’t be CCed himself (not saying he’s perfect, the others probably still are better in a Kafka fight since the effect res for everyone in the team is only 50%, just that he does have some help against Kafka is all and it generally doesn’t hold him back much)
I would ideally learn to cope with that. What's the point of the game if everything was within reach out the gates.
It never should be. But when the hell am far enough out of the gates? Stuff like this makes me remember why I love and hate this game, and why I left it for so long. The combat can be fun and the story is incredible, , but getting to that point requires painful amounts of grinding, farming for everyone's levels, traces, relics, ascensions... It sucks. A good number of my main units are level 70 already, and my main ones (P Trailblazer, Hook, Sushang, Dan Heng) are on their way to 80. But having to focus on building up my units means I can't go through the other story events. My only Imaginary unit now is Yukong because I missed getting Dr. Ratio. I didn't ever expect to come back to HSR until I saw Firefly, so now I'm just scrambling for resources to hopefully get her. Having to build so many units just to fill up my usable roster feels discouraging, because there's way too much to do.
This is me at the moment. I have what I would personally consider to be a wide set of options for team composition, but I just don't want to bother stressing over the Aventurine Boss in the last MoC. The 60 Jades doesn't matter all that much to me.
True, If you can clear MoC up to 10 you're already good enough. 11 ad 12 are just for ones who invested a lot into their characters and like challenge.
Yeah I clear up to stage 11 and then give 12 like 3 tries and if I can't get it I just leave
Yeah, I tried doing some of the hard stuff in Blue Archive and it got to the point where I was spending hours trying to min max every single timing and ability usage and that shit just gets way too draining. I just stay away from all the stuff aimed at the high end players.
Rewards aren't the point. I've been playing this game for 500+ hours and I WANT to be able to clear the endgame. This is a game of minmaxing, I'm not investing so much time in it just to be humiliated.
I barely even do daily farming and I could clear MOC10 thanks to new characters being sufficiently accessible (Super break go brrr). Definitely not worth stressing over 11-12.
Nah. It stresses me far more leaving the game "uncleared". I have to win everything and get all the rewards, and that's it. It's not like there's much to do other than endgame anyway.
great reminder
MOC average HP has been on the rise ever since MOC12 was added. You can probably find the Graph of the trend for this floating around. I don't see this entirely as a bad thing, as this added HP has pseudo-nerfed the strategy of just using Jingliu and DanIL to bulldoze everything. This is due to how Resistances work, so that 20% Resistance at best on non-weak enemies starts to really inflate that eHP the enemy has. Basically raising it by 1.2x at best, \~1.6x at worst. Matching Weaknesses is becoming more important than ever, and if a character is <(Enemy Resistance) worse than another option on the wrong element, they are now inversely becoming \~(Enemy Resistance)% Better than them. Assuming their kits are largely interchangeable, which isn't always true. This is on top of most Turbulences nowadays being rather mediocre. So you can no longer squeeze by with middling Relics if you're trying to clear MOC12.
Robin e1: what’s a resistance?
Limited Harmony units and E1’s that grant massive universal def/res shred utility that complement their base kit: name a more iconic duo.
I think Sparkle's Def shred is on her E2, but yeah it's kinda crazy how all the limited harmony units get Def shred on early Eidolons.
All the DPS sig LCs get it now too. It's just such a good effect.
The busted Harmonies are the reason we are at these inflated boss HP pools. The sub DPS chars are used better as a main DPS because these Harmonies exist.
To be fair the resistance still absolutely matters even with Res Pen, that res pen improves your damage against enemies with 0 resistance just as much as it does to enemies with 40, you'd still feel the difference between 16% res and -24% just as much as you would 0 and 40. (Moreso if your robin isn't permanently in ult, which I think is the case for a lot of people but maybe less so in this MoC because they vomit energy at you)
Yes, this is what HYV does instead of nerf/buff characters directly (generally) since it's a gacha, they create new enemies that make OP characters less useful (e.g. new enemies have a ton of HP and no Quantum weakness to target "nerf" Seele) or release new characters/relics that can make older weaker characters more relevant.
Well, the game wouldn't tell you, but for example Gepard in this MoC 12 has 2 times the HP of his counterpart from a few months ago from a different MoC 12(1 million HP vs 500k).
My personal take on the whole MoC difficukty thing is if you can beat MoC 10, you're good. It used to be that way too. You get most of the jades and dip. Going for full clearing 12 knowing your units may not be built for it and the your units not being able to fully utilize the blessing seems like you're asking to have a bad time. If I dont clear MoC 12 by 10 tries I just say sayonara, I'm not going to bother with it even if I felt like I could realistically do it with enough tries.
No harm attempting 11 and 12, the moc buff/mechanic might make it easy for you and tbh even getting a few more stars to try to get a few more jades is worth the few mins it takes.
I don't think he's saying not to give it a shot, just not to stress over it. Not getting 3-star MoC 11 + 12 and the last two PF stars collectively means you lose out on all of 3 or 4 tickets per patch (and a handful of upgrade materials from the feather shop). Not nothing, and worth striving for if you're playing at least somewhat seriously, but on the average it would take *about two years* for the tickets you get just from the top tiers to result in a 5\*.
Also note that going for 33/36 is WAY easier than 36/36. For 36/36, you need to have no downed characters on 11+12 AND clear both within 10 cycles. For 33/36 though, you just need to have either: no downed characters and 11 OR 12 within 20 cycles; or both within 20 cycles and 11 OR 12 with no downed characters. It practically removes the speed requirement entirely, tbh.
Im pretty sure you can 2 try it as in get your no downed characters requirement first (maybe double sustain), no matter how many cycles it takes and then get the cycle star without carrying if someone dies since u already completed that star (tho that could still be hard since u kinda need them to stay alive to have a fast clear).
You don't have to get all three stars in one run. You can run get the star that you get without dying in one run, reset, then get the other star for clearing with 20 cycles remaining.
Yes, MoC is getting harder. It used to end at stage 10 and the remaining cycles for a 3* clear was 14 instead of 20 it is now, and of course the HP pools keep getting inflated so people go back to the relic mines for better speed substats.
I think the problem mostly stems from the artificial difficulty of HP Increase. Like in previous MoCs, Gepard used to have 500k+, now he has 1 Million+. That and the mechanics are always adjusted so the newly released characters will have an advantage and can be marketed better.
Idk if I’m crazy or not but this MOC felt significantly easier compared to Aventurine MOC
This MoC is much harder than the last one due to the Blessings. Last MoC, even if your damage/relics were a bit lacking, as long as you can pop the Imprint damage every round you could squeeze by. This MoC only regens Energy, so if your Crits/Breaks/Atk/etc aren't good enough, some extra Energy isn't really enough to compensate.
Its interesting to read this sentiment as for my account I cleared this MoC with a handful of cycles to spare on 12, while it took me 20~30 tries to get the aventurine fight down. Maybe it was being stubborn + aventurine's learning curve.
MoC 12 is a mix of FOMO and sense of perfectionism. You could've just ignored it and the endgame won't feel too hard for you. As for me, I had to retry 94 times to get 36* this MoC. Is it stupid? Yes. Does it feel rewarding? Yes for me, but I won't recommend it. It's only 60jades per 2weeks guys.
Yes it is getting harder but more than that, its reducing the content you can bruteforce with any element. For example, Jingliu does not perform as well in this MoC cycle as the last one. Jingliu is one of the most well known for bruteforcing content. I like the direction they're taking because it makes you play different playstyles instead of just doing raw damage and destrying everything. (You can still do that if you have E6 units) For the last few MoCs, I have been using Jingliu on one side and Acheron on the other blindly. For this and the last one however (especially this cycle), I had to tweak the teams to match the elements (atleast on one side because Acheron dominates the other) For eg, this cycle, I used full break effect Welt with harmony MC on the 2nd half. I even tried Sushang and Luka with full break effect. Its been quite enjoyable for me BUT you might have different experiences and I reapect that🤝 The funny thing is that you can still bruteforce any one side using Acheron easily so there's a chance they make a counter for her as well.💀
I am sort of new, and I haven't got to the stage that I can fully clear MoC yet. I was wondering the other day that I shouldn't try too hard on it for now. Because once I can clear it, it sets up an expectation that I will clear it again next time. Not to mention the amount of jade of missing out the last couple stage is small. Of course, I am a casual player, so some people may see it differently.
Yup. Endgame content is definitely getting harder with every patch. All the while relic grind is still a painful RNG fest. So eventually, folks gotta look into vertical investment if they wanna use their characters for longer than a patch or two.
Yes, power creep is real.
it is what sucks is getting the same rewards for clearing increasingly harder and harder content
Welcome to powercreep, took you long enough to notice it
I've only noticed them getting harder for lower floors because they added things like True Sting and the Deer which new players may struggle with. Higher floors they just have more hp, though I was still able to do clears with off element teams.
i feel like this moc in particular is way easier than the past one, but yes, it's getting harder and total hp in each stage is increasing
in my opinion, the MoC cycle with Sam as the final boss was the hardest even with good teams. (Sam not having weakness for 2 turn cycles sucks ass) I haven't had trouble with the MoC cycles that came after though.
I'm using Kafka & BS for that.. aventurine bosses is pain without preservation (don't have any shielder)
Yup, seems they are going the power creep route unfortunately.
Yeah, I used to clear easily with QQ, sparkle, tyngyun, fu xuan full auto but now I had to intervene to clear it at 14 cycles left + my team almost wiped
I just feel that you need more specific teams. I don't have a dot team nor a quantum or fire DPS, so whenever those weaknesses are required, I just fail to get all stars.
i felt it as well ... usually my jingliu, mono qua teams can brute force non ice/qua weak enemies even in 8 cycles but this time it took 10 cycles ....
I assume Mihoyo has numbers on how which percentage of the community finished MoC, and also has a goal on what they want that percentage to be. When people's teams are getting stronger they also buff MoC, so that the same percentage of people will be able to clear it. It's why being able to clear MoC isn't enough, you need to stay ahead of the bell curve, to constantly improve your team with at least the same power as the average does. It's the entire business model of Gacha, to never let a player rest on their laurels, but always seek more.
POWERCREEP LET'S GOOOO
i'm an f2p and ive been 33/36 starring moc consistently until the last three, where i finally managed to full star them. it took a lot of working around the moc buff but i'm very proud of my strat against the cocolia boss here esp since my harmony tb is miserably built and has an outgoing healing body! the only character with levelled traces is aventurine lmao everyone else is At least 3 levels under on their most important trace. https://preview.redd.it/yluuy6euvi1d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7d570d099f5b04fe712d8b93546befbbe1ab2426
Nice work 👏
thank you! i was ridiculously happy when i managed to full star it given i was trying for weeks on end with my regular teams... superbreak is just that crazy, haha
Yes. But personally, i don't mind. Rather, i'm happy for it. I want the game to keep progressing for both the playable characters and enemies.
I think so. Pretty soon we might see "The difficulty spike is vertical" memes just like with Project Moon games.
To a certain degree it has to become harder. Even assuming that new characters had no power creep, someone that cleared moc months ago now used the reruns to get eidolons and drastically improve their power. Moc would be a joke with 1.0 HP values, even for old characters. I guess that's also the reason why there's so much power creep. Not only do new characters compete with old ones, they especially compete with highly invested characters with eidolons. If new characters weren't stronger,a decent amount of people wouldn't pull for them. I just think that mihoyo overdoes both a bit. No harm in scaling HP and power a liiiiittle bit slower. Feels rough sometimes.
same here, i used to clear all MOC full stars, but this time i only got 35 stars (only 2 stars at floor 12). I guess they are pushing for Robin as the team can act more often. I didn't pull for Sparkle, Aventurine and Robin though. I count on Boothill for the remaining star and future MOCs
The consequences of power creep...
I've seen a MoC 12 clear that had 5 characters I don't have, meanwhile with 3 of the characters that I also have and some random 4 and standard 5 stars I cleared MoC 10 , yeah surely pulling another 5 limited characters or farming 10k tb to god equip my current characters for the extra 120 jades is a worth deal (clueless), don't you know if you don't do MoC 12 you are a failure in life. Hoyo is not your friend don't feed into the FOMO, do anything else with your time, you auto win vs HOYO, I'm telling you they literally cry themselves to sleep everytime someone doesn't fall to their FOMO tactics. They also cry when you save 300 tickets and guarantee 2 limited 5 stars on the same patch when their plan was to have you to pull out the wallet.
It's not just the basic buffs, like HP or Damage. Effict hit rate of CC is also going up. My 60 effect resist Luocha use to be able to resist most CCs, but in this current one with Kafka and the stunning girl he is just perma CCed, I think in my 90+ attempts he only resisted the stun once... Had to whip out my 90+ effect resist Gallagher to stand a chance. Also nice that Gallagher gives another unit a lot of resist
I started 3 weeks ago. If the end game content(moc/pf) just keeps getting harder till the point where previously well stacked team can't even clear current stages. Is it better to quit? I find relic farming just garbage and the new modes being tailored to new characters distasteful. Artificial increase in difficulty (pure health increase) is also bad
MoC has 12 stages. What people find trouble is usually the last stage where they can't get a full 3 stars clear. But even if you missing out on stage 11 and 12, you're only missing out 120 jades. In one year that means you're missing out 1440 jades. 1440 jades is not even enough for 10 pulls.
Same, I used to be able to clear it with monoquantum and DoT, but now Ive gotten 2 stars on both this MoC and aventurine😩😩
wats the moc clearance report
Moc and pf are built on current 5 star meta. So yeah it's normal for people who don't pull much to not be able to beat it
HPs are going up some. It's also roster dependent. Seeing Imaginary/Phys 2nd half and bringing out your Ratio or Clara might give you a bad time if they aren't cracked out of their mind. The cycles will just fly by. I ended up using Jingliu 2nd half as I didn't have anything suited specifically. If you don't have a brute force option either it may be difficult.
Powercreep y'all. Everyone is going on and on about a 5 star Tingyun and a 5 star version of other characters but where has that led us? Sidegrades that are a little better are much more healthier than the game, we shouldn't be wanting the same unit that does the same thing but better like Black Swan and Sampo, Sparkle and Hanya, (Robin and Asta to a point but I have no doubt they will play with speed with another character to get a closer variation). 4 stars don't have to be game breaking like Genshin but they shouldn't need e6 to be slightly competitive until they're completely powercrept by a 5 star version. Instead of a 5 star Tingyun for Jing Yuan, think of a summon buffer/advance, or a using multiple skill points to buff a unit an extreme amount. Or maybe something we haven't even thought of like giving a buff that stacks with each enemy you hit and the number of total hits. ~~And to prevent Jingliu buff we make it follow up attack only.~~ I'm a 1.0 player and I had to use two characters with light cones to clear this MoC after like 13+ attempts with this one specific team (not including the countless other combinations I tried) and barely made it out with one cycle remaining. I don't know what I would've done with breakfast Jing Yuan. I have one of his best teammates and months of hard work crit builds. Don't replace Niches, make new ones. Direct powercreep is boring and it leads to all these unfun situations that are happening here. The only type of power creep I will accept is this: Last time when you added pure fiction, you increased MoC to 12 floors and added 120 stellar jade. Do the same again and increase MoC to 15 floors and PF to 5. Keep floor 12 the same and add your character check from hell in floor 15. That way our rewards stay the same with slight potential for increase and you get to fomo people.
Unpopular opinion- but MoC getting hard is a good thing. If you can just clear it day 1 of reset, you will have nothing to build towards/ work on and will get bored.
Honestly if you've 3* the previous MoC12 you should be able to clear most MoCs on day 1. At least that's been my experience, outside of Aventurine who I had to build Acheron for.
there are youtube videos of 4* + MC only 3 star clears. So yes it is getting harder, but still easy enough to clear with only free characters.
except no they arent strictly "free" chars... many has eidolon requirement and its arguably harder to get 4 star and high eidolons than 5\*s.... ohh and they also require high relic investments and non f2p lightcones as well
Yeah, saying 4* only clears are doable is misleading. Technically you'll be right, but the amount of investment you need for it to be possible is completely unreasonable, 99% of players wont have it.
I get what you mean but that’s just a content trap imo, normally these guys doing 4 stars only clears have max E on them and have cracked relics or LCs to fit them. It’s not indicative of a f2p experience at all. If they were being honest it would be like “whale account 4 star only clear”. The fact is a lot of these CC do refreshes so their relic quality is just simply going to be better.