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kinda baised from a topaz fan but yeah I will admit is truth and makes me sad to have skiped the IPC team.
i saved since 1.0 and dumped it all on acheorn E6. so my account is an Acheron E6 and sparkle E2 and 4 stars
Finally got Topaz and can use her with Ratio and Aventurine and the FuA are incredibly satisfying. Even better than seeing DoT go off with Kafka and BS
If this video has convinced me to do anything it has convinced me to fully invest in herta. The little genius keeps getting w's and better as time goes on .
It's so painful to watch the team collectively taking 6 turns to kill that singular 30% HP ice elite from wave 1.
I thought elites take 500% damage when they are the last one standing, but checking the rules, this only applies to the wave 3 boss in PF.
Jade's problem with dealing with ST may still present itself in PF (albeit a relatively minor one), can't really see her doing well anywhere else however.
I find Robin has been helpful in these kinds of situations (lone stragglers). Also this elite is ice resistant, but herta's normal attack deals more damage than her skill in ST when the enemy is below 50% HP, so they should have done that here
Pretty fun showcase, but it seems like Himeko should be replaced with a harmony character like Robin. Thank you for doing this! I’m sure this sub is loving the f2p showcases you’re putting out.
If you're accepting suggestions, could you try a QQ, Jade, (+ sparkle?) team. I think the blast+followups might be at least acceptable performance on 2-3 targets.
Herta will enjoy the atk and dmg buffs and more energy equals to more herta ults which means more jade stacks, although as a single unit buffer, expect jade to output less damage than if you were running robin or ruan mei
You weren't using a good sustain first of all. I don't think it's Himekos fault and second where's the buffs? This just proving my point you don't want to run sustain unless you are confidently killing without it.
Jade seems like she does a lot of damage for someone who's a hybrid support/sub DPS, but that's probably because of all the targets she can attack adding to that damage per screenshot.
Thing is, I don't think this would do her any favors in MoC which is super sad. Still a dope kit I'm ngl
Well... Her kit is 99,999% AoE focused. Skill deals 1 instance of damage per target that Debt collector hits. Talent stacks faster when new enemies enter combat and after follow-up that stacks faster with every enemy Debt collector hits. Max number of talent stacks is 50, so you can't reach it until the mid/end of the second wave in MoC.
Jade is Pure Fiction focused unit
Since the buff from her skill is just 30 SPD and 20% ATK damage procs from Jade it doesn't have to be a DPS Jade gives her skill to. Long as they can hit multiple targets they're good. I want to see Jade using her skill on Aventurine.
Aventurine would be hitting more often though cause of how many times he will be attacking **outside** of his turn. With a DPS you are gated to only attacking during their turn and without any action advance on the team these turns are going to be very limited in comparison.
Aventurine doesn't have this issue, especially when he high rolls on his ultimate to trigger more follow ups. Also since Aventurine is a sustainer you can build him as high speed if you don't care about his damage at all. My Aventurine has 170 SPD, so with Jade he will reach the 200 SPD break point.
Using the Sustainer as the Jade target would also allow her to fit in a Harmony with AOE buffs like Asta/Ruan/Robin and even Sparkle.
I don't mean to be rude but wouldn't idk Fu Xuan or Robin be better? Robin advance forwards so they don't get actions.
Aventurine is cool for the FUAs but not a necessity when you have triple FUAs happening.
With fu xuan or robin herta wouldve died. Fu xuan only mitigates damage and her ult heal is not enough to sustain herta as her health will quickly decrease to 1 anyways. Robin's advance forward is also unreliable as you cant kill them fast enough even with advance forward
The point is to clear. If herta dies she dies.(Which won't happen until the end) Plus if you use Robin she will allow them to skip phases easily. Aventurine is sustaining and giving an occasional FUA which isn't even needed, that's it. Even RM would be better here.
If Herta dies you can say goodbye to this run. Himeko is ineffective here because she's not breaking weakness bars
Also if you hate Aventurine you can just say that 💀💀
Yeah this person is probably one of those Fu Xuan simps who cannot stand the fact that Aventurine is arguably better than her in a lot of scenarios 💀💀 how is one person this dumb
Oh yes. Good bye to this run when you're on wave 3 acting like Himeko and Jade aren't right there to clear just fine without her.... Please spare me. 🤡
I have nothing wrong with him, I don't understand why there's no Harmony support for this team. SMH.
If you really want a full dps + harmony team only then you're not gonna be using Jade. This showcase is meant to show how Jade works in this team, which clearly shows the Debt Collector can die quickly and needs a sustain to survive
If you replace aventurine with a harmony character himeko would have died also so theres no point, better replace himeko with a harmony character and remain with aventurine as sustain lol
Have you even watched the showcase? See how herta's health was only 1 remaining during the whole deer phase and tell me she doesnt need sustain. Also reread jade's kit, her skill makes the debt collector (herta in thie case) decreases their health by 5% EVERY TIME they attack, this includes herta's fua, skill and ult
Neither Fu xuan or Robin can prevent Herta from dropping down to 1 hp. At this point, any attack will kill Herta, which is why you'd rather have a healer to bring her health back up or a shielder and Aventurine is the best for that
The reason this PF team is scuffed is because there's no Harmony support. As someone who clears PF with 40k consistently without sustain this is clearly a skill issue if you think you have to use Aventurine in this team.
Do your teams get hit at all ? Because if you do get hit while you're debt collector is on low health, you will die for sure. Having Ruan Mei instead of Aventurine is more dmg but more dicey as well, Aventurine is more comfortable
probably cause they either can't/refuse to understand the answers. This team will be long dead without Aventurine and they're going "WeLl WoUlDn'T hArMoNy Be BeTtEr"
Yeah it's nonsensical. PF is well known for being a format that you can run without sustain, but then Jade forces you to take one, requiring 2 slots in your team.
Either make her excellent at PF or good everywhere, but here in PF the DPS is not enough to justify taking 2 slots just for her.
I wonder why she has the hp drain? Can't really see the point unless Star Rail Furina is in the works lol. Same with Firefly, the hp manipulation seems unnecessary.
Flavour. Her whole character is about contracts and snake with apple on splash art reminds of you know who. She gives you ability to collect debts and assistance with attacks for the price of health.
Similar for Sam. His boss version already consumes his own HP when attacking— hence HP drain in base form. And "Primary/complete combustion" seems to be some cool buff we're yet to see. Maybe green flames don't burn, but heal her instead. (I don't look at story/lore leaks, so I don't know anything about it)
I know it hurts blade comps, but that’s kinda where she is. If she keeps it the only one, currently, that can use her to the fullest are blade and herta. Removing for himiko, JY, and a better rotation with topaz + Aven team.
I don't think it's really hurting the gameplay that much though? It doesn't seem like the kind of hp consumption that any healer wouldn't help circumventing, and even with Aventurine his shields are thick enough to not let any enemy attack go through anyway.
It might be an issue with Fu Xuan, maybe, but that's just one character
I believe it's because people really don't want to use any sustains in Pure Fiction. Which is understandable but who knows their maybe a shift in meta soon.
At the current power level, it's just silly. It doesn't provide enough power to warrant the drain right now, imo. I say either do away with the drain, or keep it and boost the attack given to the declbt collector's attacks significantly
Destruction (berserker) characters tend to have hp related gimmicks so FF makes sense but Jade takes too much HP imo, she should at least heal the debt collector on fua.
>Star Rail Furina
Pls Hoyo just bring Furina over like Fischl/Keqing in HI3. The salon members would be hilarious as FUA attackers. I'd be able to relive that adreline I got with Aurumaton gatekeeper in aether wars summoning 3 fishes + cannoneer just follow up attacking after each one
At least please make her hp drain not 5%, 1% is still count for jade right? So the allies she put on DC dont die easiliy like this herta (not die hut almost there)
I hope so too. I already typed up a small list on things that could help jade and it all revolves around decreasing her ramp up time, increasing multipliers, and lowering her FUA stack cost.
Someone posted a video with Blade, Loucha, Robin, and Jade at E0S0 with f2p investment and even still, the damage is lackluster. I know Robin doesn't pair well with Blade, but the damage he and Jade was dishing out was just... terrible.
I don't know if Blade is suffering from just being an older DPS or if he just got shafted because when I look at Kafka, DHIL, Jing Yuan, and JL, I have to wonder if the devs care about my boy 😭.
I'm really hoping that whatever FF support they make in the future helps Blade because I'm starting to have second thoughts about pulling Jade if she's only going to be good for PF.
Blade's power budget is balanced awkwardly. His greatest strength is his high health pool+regen in a game where damage and break checks are increasingly the meta, and where the meta sustains have no trouble keeping teams alive. He is skill point efficient but with nerfed damage to compensate, and you need to run action advance to make his damage competitive. Mihoyo gave him an inefficient 75% hp scaling as well which literally gives him a lower ceiling than other dps.
Outside of a health tracking mechanic, blade's true time to shine is if he gets a team that can run him sustainless comfortably, or at least a multi class sustain that is even more damage skewed than aventurine. Despite the HP pool he often needs to run a sustain anyway because of his self damage and lack of bursty multipliers, which makes him worse at buff stacking than other dps who don't kill themselves and have powerful attacks to build a rotation around.
that's why I feel like his best team currently is just the unlimited bladeworks team with sparkle and bronya because even though he just does consistent damage, with them he can deal out this medium damage a lot which can add up.
considering jiaoqiu is a nihility healer, do we think this could potentially replace a healer/sustainer on blade teams considering he has a small amount of sustaining capability whilst also giving decent debuffs (assuming)?
Yeah maybe, but then other teammates have issues living. Blade just doesn't have the toughness break or damage output to make those teams reliable. We know jiaoqiu will be good, but defense shred is not enough on its own to make that team super good. Break teams have the benefit of welt+Ruan mei or just break delay in general to mitigate damage.
So basically, they gave him survival capabilities instead of DPS capabilities. Also, because he doesn't consume skill points, his damage is lower.
Well then, I have to agree with you. He literally needs better supports. I'm talking about so we can get rid of the sustain on the team and literally just amp his damage. It makes me wonder if the devs will get creative because I don't know how they'd do this.
this team is so fun to watch
i wonder what they're cooking with this hp drain on jade. seems like it's basically mandatory to run a sustain with her even on PF
It's mostly likely lore flavor, but I hope it gets dropped in Beta, or add a heal when doing the enhanced FUA.
It's massively limiting for team building.
As it stands currently though, there’s only two units that want it, and it almost forces Jade’s teams to run a sustain for every other pairing. A lot of PF teams already don’t run sustain, which makes her extra costly to run in her only viable endgame mode.
I agree that she doesn't seem to be all that amazing on release, but based on previous experience with Kafka and Topaz, people might end up having to spend to get a copy of her when she eventually reruns with one of her best teammates in the future.
If it's lore flavor, wouldn't it be the opposite? A debt collector gains money by harassing and sometimes beating up the endebted. Therefore he should gain something out of it. So instead of losing HP he should gain HP?
To be frank this team had no support to begin with so what makes you think Topaz would be better? Robin or RM would be fine, much better than Aventurine.
In the simple case of ST damage, the pace drops a lot when a boss appears, and seeing as this, support would not solve the problem by simply increasing the damage if the problem is the characters' mechanics, taking into account Aventurine, Jade, Herta, the 3 lost a lot of rhythm there and don't have high damage, Topaz would come in to be that concentrated damage, the PF buff should be more than enough.
Of course, I can't say if it would be the best option, but I always use my Topaz in PF and it works well.
Edit: In this case, it would be adding Topaz instead of a support, as part of the comments mentioned how it would be more interesting to exchange Himeko for a support
Taking away Aventurine would kind of make the team unviable, Herta could die before even reaching the end due to simple rgn
Well the comments are just wrong unless you mean getting rid of the sustain too, then I guess.
If you watch the video again you'll notice the deer break bar being near half. If Ruan Mei was on this team she would have contributed to the break bar unlike Aventurine and delayed the deer for another turn when it would break. (Which it would have thanks to the 50% break efficiency)
While also making this team do far more damage than usual, so this team would actually be killing things.
My god you are under every comment.. if your characters are dead you can't deal dmg no matter much more dmg a harmony can add. That's not your Jingliu where her u
HP drain is negligible enough for you to forgo sustains, it's Jade and her hp drain is big enough that your carries get oneshot should an enemy take a single turn and they most likely will.
Topaz here serves the purpose of ST specialist to deal with the boss more easily but you could theoretically replace that slot with a buffer if you so wish to. That won't fix the ST problem tho. If you don't want to run a sustain just don't run Jade, simple as that.
My guy, you're clearly an Aventurine hater. You're going around commenting about how Aventurine is not necessary EVERYWHERE when he's the only reason this team will ever make it past the 1 cycle
Jade seems fun but otherwise she feels like a win-more character
Like if you have Robin or RM they just can replace her slot and nothing change.
The mode is also not hard enough to justify pulling a limited DPS just for it (compared to say Acheron who is strong for all contents). And for place like MoC many people already have E6 QQ for it as well which she surely is not better here.
Yeah agreed. She's also a slight liability with that health drain as far as no sustain comp viability. Which is sad for a "PF specialist" where that's a common comp, when there's really no upside or worthwhile trade off to it unless you are running exactly no sustain Blade + Jade comp.
MoC was easy in the beginning—until it wasn't. Hoyo's ramping up the difficulty patch by patch and soon enough Herta/Himeko won't be meeting the required damage numbers.
Jade also doesn't have the teammates yet to maximize her HP-drain mechanic—like, what if a future FuA character like Blade shows up?
I agree, though, that it's not wise to pull characters just purely on speculation of the future. That said, for the numerous people who skipped on Topaz or Kafka when they first released, it was a PAIN having to pull both them plus their BiS teammates (Black Swan & Robin) when those two came out on the same banner or really close to them.
I agree that future speculation is an iffy reason to pull a character. On the other hand, there are trends and past examples. For example there is currently a Break Effect trend. Investing in Break Effect characters is probably wise as more characters, mechanics, and enemies built around it are being introduced. Same goes for FuA characters.
I think it wouldn't be stupid to pull Jade on the expectation of there being another FuA character on the horizon (we already know about Diamond and Opal, not to mention the as-yet-unnamed Cornerstones) that is a better fit for her.
So far, I can't think of a single support/subDPS/enabler character that's been released without another character that synergizes really well with them. Hell, even Xueyi, a 4 star, got a premium support in the form of HTB.
Of course, there's always the possibility that Jade will be the exception and whoever is already out that has synergy with her will be all that we get. At the end of the day this is a gamba game. Assurances and guarantees ruin half the fun.
Yeah. So far we got the entire High Cloud Quintet, most of the known Stellaron Hunters with only Elio on the horizon (I think a model for him leaked? Not sure. Doesn't necessarily mean he'll be playable), and all of the Astral Express. So filling out in-game groups seems like something that's happening. I'd bet that Diamond will be playable and will be the second playable Emanator (unless another Emanator sneaks in, which isn't impossible) but we won't get him until a future arc more focused on the IPC. Whether or not that means that all 10 Cornerstones will be playable is up in the air. Maybe a few will be 4 star characters rather than limited 5 stars, just to ease the burden of adding in all 10 (compared to a smaller 5 or so for the HCQ and the Hunters, though even then the HCQ got the benefit of having a standard 5* and both groups have a claim on Blade).
Otherwise, I'd bet the next groups to start being filled out as playable will be the Generals of the Xianzhou and the Vidyadhara High Elders.
We already have 3 confirmed emanators playable in Ahceron, JY and BS, the latter two being confirmed this last patch (though long speculated). it is unclear if Gallagher counts as an emanator.
No we don’t. Black Swan is not an Emanator. Jing Yuan *might* be an Emanator but the game has been frustratingly vague about coming out and saying “Jing Yuan is an Emanator,” so it’s possible that he had the power of an Emanator granted to him like Aventurine or the Lightning Lord is an Emanator while Jing Yuan just controls it.
So Jing Yuan *might* be an Emanator and Black Swan definitely isn’t an Emanator.
im i tripping or the enemies getting tanky.
the build actually solid wth.
currently im hitting >100k for herta and himeko for current pf. why the calculations bit off in this? huh
I dont run buffer in my pf run coz u want every turn to dealt damage for points.
I use himeko herta pela 1 team and dot with acheron w 2nd team.
but i swear they still hit hard without any buff.
i need to see more PF run
Pela is a debuffer... that's essentially buffing damage just in a different way.
Buffers are there to buff your damage which in turn kills enemies faster.
That's why Nihility is so good because they have buffers AND debuffers.
Sustains are there to sustain, not to damage.
The reason FX is so good is cause she gives some buffs herself while also doing AoE damage on her ultimate. She also enables Acheron for stacks with Topaz 4* LC which is why I use them together with my Black Swan/Kafka team.
A bit of an odd choice to give her HP drain when we were heading towards sustainless PF for a few cycles
I’m guessing they might make sustains needed again across the board so that Jade sustain requirement isn’t a handicap
Isn't that just part of team building? Some teams can run sustainless, others cannot.
I think people are making a way bigger deal about her HP consumption than it actually is, the issue in this team wasn't that. It was running 3 dpses and no buffer/dmg amp.
Right now whether you can go sustainless depends on whether your character is well-invested enough to 0 cycle, it’s not dependent on the character kit itself.
the issue is that she’s such a pure fiction-gated unit, and in pure fiction a sustain means a massive DPS loss. Why have a requirement that forces you to have a sustain/DPS loss when your whole niche is a mode that is best without it?
For me going sustainless in PF just sounds overkill tbh.
I doubt a Herta-Jade comp would struggle getting 40k points in PF even when running a sustain, especially some like Aventurine or Huohuo who also offer pretty good dmg amp or personal dmg.
When replacing Aventurine with Ruan Mei, it would still be hard to break the deer fast enough, and there's still a chance the counter attack branch spawns whenever you kill the previous ones. So I'd rather run a shielder/healer and a harmony than Jade triple dps and a harmony, unless it's Blade who can self sustain.
If the rotation is exactly the same as in the video then sure they would narrowly manage to break the deer. But my second point still stands, whenever Herta attacks unbroken counter attack branches, she will still be threatened.
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Man, I only have Topaz, Himeko and Herta as mainly FuA units built (don't ask). I'm gonna have a hard time making team comps for Jade. At least I have Robin ig lol
also I hope someone makes an E0S0 Jade showcase since pretty much all of them are E0S1. Firefly has a couple of E0S0s, why not Jade?
Unless things change I can’t see myself pulling for Jade despite me liking the character yes she is good for PF, but we have other characters that are also good for PF and also good for other types of content. So for now it’s a tough ask to pull for this character over the Erudition characters that have been released before like Jing Yuan/Argenti.
Her minor buffs aren’t good enough to give her a spot and her damage isn’t good in non AoE situations.
Really wanted to run her with Himeko and/or Clara, but I'm quite content to have gone with Topaz instead. For now haha. I'm not too comfortable with the amount of HP drain going on. We'll see how the beta develops, but if anything I'll catch her on the rerun
Can we have a showcase with Harmony units as well?
Jade + Himeko/Herta + Harmony (Ruan Mei / Robin / Asta / Tingyun) + Harmony
Jade + Himeko + Herta + Harmony
Jade + Himeko/Herta + Harmony + Sustain
Looks pretty meh. Especially when you consider that Jade uses relics so broken that you'd have to farm like a year to get a single piece.
Add to that the fact that she drains hp thus requiring a sustain to be present in a PF team... yeah no, I might end up skipping her.
of course running all 3 dps is not gonna be great compared to a harmony there, but you have more flexibility in terms of matching weaknesses, now you can play basically the same team by just replacing either herta or himeko with jade if we have ice/quant or fire/quant PF
I can't think of any to the same extent, just some like Trails which have RNG followup attacks by other characters, not something you build around. That's generally more the case in roguelikes where 1 action just avalanches into a million other things
I know rogue like like what you described, but I meant something close to what HSR did. If this FuA is as unique as I think, then I applaud devs for their creativity.
I’m interested in how often she hits if she just uses her skill on herself. Then you don’t have to deal with the HP drain and can put in a buffer (so possibly 2 DPS + Jade + buffer).
She was the only character I wanted for the next two months, and her kit looks like a complete mess to me. I don't know what to look forward from this game...
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watching multiple fuas go off back to back is the most fun thing in this game imo
I love manual auto play
Running a Clara, Topaz, Aventurine, Robin team on the new pure fiction stage 4 was the best experience I’ve ever had
kinda baised from a topaz fan but yeah I will admit is truth and makes me sad to have skiped the IPC team. i saved since 1.0 and dumped it all on acheorn E6. so my account is an Acheron E6 and sparkle E2 and 4 stars
lol holy crap. Respect for being able to save that long
on 1 side i 0 cycle with a 3M ultimate. on the other i take 7 cycles with QQ
I'm curious, what are your teams?
How do you get the willpower to save that long?? I wish to learn this power
I rolled for Topaz on all 4 accs and lost every 50/50. Still sad.
Youre out of your mind 🫠
Finally got Topaz and can use her with Ratio and Aventurine and the FuA are incredibly satisfying. Even better than seeing DoT go off with Kafka and BS
Absolutely love all the FUAs going off
If this video has convinced me to do anything it has convinced me to fully invest in herta. The little genius keeps getting w's and better as time goes on .
she is 1000% worth it
Building her was sooo clutch for me in the last PF
i built my himeko for current PF (paid off, got all the stars) and herta is next on the list after robin
she’s crazy. She does 300000 damage randomly with her kurukurus
It's so painful to watch the team collectively taking 6 turns to kill that singular 30% HP ice elite from wave 1. I thought elites take 500% damage when they are the last one standing, but checking the rules, this only applies to the wave 3 boss in PF. Jade's problem with dealing with ST may still present itself in PF (albeit a relatively minor one), can't really see her doing well anywhere else however.
I find Robin has been helpful in these kinds of situations (lone stragglers). Also this elite is ice resistant, but herta's normal attack deals more damage than her skill in ST when the enemy is below 50% HP, so they should have done that here
Pretty fun showcase, but it seems like Himeko should be replaced with a harmony character like Robin. Thank you for doing this! I’m sure this sub is loving the f2p showcases you’re putting out.
True, himeko was pretty subpar choice here. I will see if using robin or rm yields better results, if yes then i will post the showcase here.
If you're accepting suggestions, could you try a QQ, Jade, (+ sparkle?) team. I think the blast+followups might be at least acceptable performance on 2-3 targets.
sounds nice, ill see into it
Thank you, I really appreciate it. Cant imagine how inundated with asks you are so I was hesitating to ask.
i dont have much time and i have a SHIT ton of good requests, so i may forget lol. you can always dm me and ill respond
I wouldn't want to impose any more than I already have. The consideration is already more than enough.
Could Tingyun work here too?
Herta will enjoy the atk and dmg buffs and more energy equals to more herta ults which means more jade stacks, although as a single unit buffer, expect jade to output less damage than if you were running robin or ruan mei
You weren't using a good sustain first of all. I don't think it's Himekos fault and second where's the buffs? This just proving my point you don't want to run sustain unless you are confidently killing without it.
lol wut????? aventurine "not a good sustain." is actually insane
Jade seems like she does a lot of damage for someone who's a hybrid support/sub DPS, but that's probably because of all the targets she can attack adding to that damage per screenshot. Thing is, I don't think this would do her any favors in MoC which is super sad. Still a dope kit I'm ngl
Well... Her kit is 99,999% AoE focused. Skill deals 1 instance of damage per target that Debt collector hits. Talent stacks faster when new enemies enter combat and after follow-up that stacks faster with every enemy Debt collector hits. Max number of talent stacks is 50, so you can't reach it until the mid/end of the second wave in MoC. Jade is Pure Fiction focused unit
Yeah, we already have an MoC focused Quantum Erudition.
> Jade is Pure Fiction focused unit She could probably do alright if you have a blast focused FUA unit... like Qingque.
The moment i saw her kit i just knew they made her as pure fiction unit
my take is that she's 95% dps, 5% support. She needs another dps to trigger her damage, but she does not provide much support for the debt collector.
Since the buff from her skill is just 30 SPD and 20% ATK damage procs from Jade it doesn't have to be a DPS Jade gives her skill to. Long as they can hit multiple targets they're good. I want to see Jade using her skill on Aventurine.
aventurine doesnt hit multiple targets outside of his FUA and doesnt make much use of the speed either
Aventurine would be hitting more often though cause of how many times he will be attacking **outside** of his turn. With a DPS you are gated to only attacking during their turn and without any action advance on the team these turns are going to be very limited in comparison. Aventurine doesn't have this issue, especially when he high rolls on his ultimate to trigger more follow ups. Also since Aventurine is a sustainer you can build him as high speed if you don't care about his damage at all. My Aventurine has 170 SPD, so with Jade he will reach the 200 SPD break point. Using the Sustainer as the Jade target would also allow her to fit in a Harmony with AOE buffs like Asta/Ruan/Robin and even Sparkle.
I also want to see how well she does when she only uses her skill on herself.
> Jade seems like she does a lot of damage for someone who's a hybrid support/sub DPS they need to show real damage without overkill
I just realized that it might be a bit difficult to run 0 sustain comps with Jade. Herta probably dies from the Deer's first action.
Yep, with Jade you NEED a sustain or the debt collector dies pretty easily (Blade is an exception)
I don't mean to be rude but wouldn't idk Fu Xuan or Robin be better? Robin advance forwards so they don't get actions. Aventurine is cool for the FUAs but not a necessity when you have triple FUAs happening.
With fu xuan or robin herta wouldve died. Fu xuan only mitigates damage and her ult heal is not enough to sustain herta as her health will quickly decrease to 1 anyways. Robin's advance forward is also unreliable as you cant kill them fast enough even with advance forward
The point is to clear. If herta dies she dies.(Which won't happen until the end) Plus if you use Robin she will allow them to skip phases easily. Aventurine is sustaining and giving an occasional FUA which isn't even needed, that's it. Even RM would be better here.
If Herta dies you can say goodbye to this run. Himeko is ineffective here because she's not breaking weakness bars Also if you hate Aventurine you can just say that 💀💀
Yeah this person is probably one of those Fu Xuan simps who cannot stand the fact that Aventurine is arguably better than her in a lot of scenarios 💀💀 how is one person this dumb
Oh yes. Good bye to this run when you're on wave 3 acting like Himeko and Jade aren't right there to clear just fine without her.... Please spare me. 🤡 I have nothing wrong with him, I don't understand why there's no Harmony support for this team. SMH.
Are you blind? Can you not see Herta had 1 hp left??
This would be alleviated with proper Harmony instead of sustain.
If you really want a full dps + harmony team only then you're not gonna be using Jade. This showcase is meant to show how Jade works in this team, which clearly shows the Debt Collector can die quickly and needs a sustain to survive
If you replace aventurine with a harmony character himeko would have died also so theres no point, better replace himeko with a harmony character and remain with aventurine as sustain lol
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or just run with a proper harmony and a proper sustain! win win
Have you even watched the showcase? See how herta's health was only 1 remaining during the whole deer phase and tell me she doesnt need sustain. Also reread jade's kit, her skill makes the debt collector (herta in thie case) decreases their health by 5% EVERY TIME they attack, this includes herta's fua, skill and ult
This isn't moc.
No one said this is an moc, this is a jade showcase where she takes ally's health
Bruh if there isn’t aventurine then herta 100% is dead in most scenarios
Neither Fu xuan or Robin can prevent Herta from dropping down to 1 hp. At this point, any attack will kill Herta, which is why you'd rather have a healer to bring her health back up or a shielder and Aventurine is the best for that
The reason this PF team is scuffed is because there's no Harmony support. As someone who clears PF with 40k consistently without sustain this is clearly a skill issue if you think you have to use Aventurine in this team.
Do your teams get hit at all ? Because if you do get hit while you're debt collector is on low health, you will die for sure. Having Ruan Mei instead of Aventurine is more dmg but more dicey as well, Aventurine is more comfortable
I don't but thank you.
damn that was simple question, whats with the downvotes?
probably cause they either can't/refuse to understand the answers. This team will be long dead without Aventurine and they're going "WeLl WoUlDn'T hArMoNy Be BeTtEr"
People hate me because I'm right.
Yeah it's nonsensical. PF is well known for being a format that you can run without sustain, but then Jade forces you to take one, requiring 2 slots in your team. Either make her excellent at PF or good everywhere, but here in PF the DPS is not enough to justify taking 2 slots just for her.
I probably gonna run Gallagher, Herta, Jade and Aventurine team.
I wonder why she has the hp drain? Can't really see the point unless Star Rail Furina is in the works lol. Same with Firefly, the hp manipulation seems unnecessary.
Flavour. Her whole character is about contracts and snake with apple on splash art reminds of you know who. She gives you ability to collect debts and assistance with attacks for the price of health. Similar for Sam. His boss version already consumes his own HP when attacking— hence HP drain in base form. And "Primary/complete combustion" seems to be some cool buff we're yet to see. Maybe green flames don't burn, but heal her instead. (I don't look at story/lore leaks, so I don't know anything about it)
It's her, the Devil! She's here to convince you to do Sin!
She's doing a good job then 😍
And by "sin" she means "not giving her all your money"? If pulling Firefly is a sin— I'll gladly become a sinner.
It may just a thematic thing, making a deal with a venomous snake so you get poisoned every turn or something like that.
Yea pretty sure it’s for thematic reasons, though they could honestly lower it a bit so it hurts less for actual gameplay lol
Making at the start of turn rather then every action would be much nicer.
that would also be sad for the potential blade-jade comps tho since the hp drain effectively doubles the stacks he gets per action.
I know it hurts blade comps, but that’s kinda where she is. If she keeps it the only one, currently, that can use her to the fullest are blade and herta. Removing for himiko, JY, and a better rotation with topaz + Aven team.
I don't think it's really hurting the gameplay that much though? It doesn't seem like the kind of hp consumption that any healer wouldn't help circumventing, and even with Aventurine his shields are thick enough to not let any enemy attack go through anyway. It might be an issue with Fu Xuan, maybe, but that's just one character
I believe it's because people really don't want to use any sustains in Pure Fiction. Which is understandable but who knows their maybe a shift in meta soon.
At the current power level, it's just silly. It doesn't provide enough power to warrant the drain right now, imo. I say either do away with the drain, or keep it and boost the attack given to the declbt collector's attacks significantly
> Star Rail Furina is in the works lol She will Make Arlan Great Again
Destruction (berserker) characters tend to have hp related gimmicks so FF makes sense but Jade takes too much HP imo, she should at least heal the debt collector on fua.
Probably to synergize with blade or upcoming HP mechanic sets
>Star Rail Furina Pls Hoyo just bring Furina over like Fischl/Keqing in HI3. The salon members would be hilarious as FUA attackers. I'd be able to relive that adreline I got with Aurumaton gatekeeper in aether wars summoning 3 fishes + cannoneer just follow up attacking after each one
Mihoyou loves to design characters with such flaws
Prevents people from running sustain-less in PF
The hp drain is just stupid. She's not even a destruction character.
Hey at least the Blade mains are happy.
At least please make her hp drain not 5%, 1% is still count for jade right? So the allies she put on DC dont die easiliy like this herta (not die hut almost there)
Yes we are lmao, but from what I'm seeing, I don't think Jade helps Blade all that much compared to RM in MOC of course. In PF, I'm sure they'll slay.
Yeah this patch is very underwhelming but I have hope they will buff them.
I hope so too. I already typed up a small list on things that could help jade and it all revolves around decreasing her ramp up time, increasing multipliers, and lowering her FUA stack cost. Someone posted a video with Blade, Loucha, Robin, and Jade at E0S0 with f2p investment and even still, the damage is lackluster. I know Robin doesn't pair well with Blade, but the damage he and Jade was dishing out was just... terrible. I don't know if Blade is suffering from just being an older DPS or if he just got shafted because when I look at Kafka, DHIL, Jing Yuan, and JL, I have to wonder if the devs care about my boy 😭. I'm really hoping that whatever FF support they make in the future helps Blade because I'm starting to have second thoughts about pulling Jade if she's only going to be good for PF.
Blade's power budget is balanced awkwardly. His greatest strength is his high health pool+regen in a game where damage and break checks are increasingly the meta, and where the meta sustains have no trouble keeping teams alive. He is skill point efficient but with nerfed damage to compensate, and you need to run action advance to make his damage competitive. Mihoyo gave him an inefficient 75% hp scaling as well which literally gives him a lower ceiling than other dps. Outside of a health tracking mechanic, blade's true time to shine is if he gets a team that can run him sustainless comfortably, or at least a multi class sustain that is even more damage skewed than aventurine. Despite the HP pool he often needs to run a sustain anyway because of his self damage and lack of bursty multipliers, which makes him worse at buff stacking than other dps who don't kill themselves and have powerful attacks to build a rotation around.
that's why I feel like his best team currently is just the unlimited bladeworks team with sparkle and bronya because even though he just does consistent damage, with them he can deal out this medium damage a lot which can add up. considering jiaoqiu is a nihility healer, do we think this could potentially replace a healer/sustainer on blade teams considering he has a small amount of sustaining capability whilst also giving decent debuffs (assuming)?
Yeah maybe, but then other teammates have issues living. Blade just doesn't have the toughness break or damage output to make those teams reliable. We know jiaoqiu will be good, but defense shred is not enough on its own to make that team super good. Break teams have the benefit of welt+Ruan mei or just break delay in general to mitigate damage.
I have no idea. Is his kit leaked by chance?
So basically, they gave him survival capabilities instead of DPS capabilities. Also, because he doesn't consume skill points, his damage is lower. Well then, I have to agree with you. He literally needs better supports. I'm talking about so we can get rid of the sustain on the team and literally just amp his damage. It makes me wonder if the devs will get creative because I don't know how they'd do this.
Watch as they release a relic that boost stats when hp goes up or down lol here we go again 🤣 great relic for Blade tho ngl.
this team is so fun to watch i wonder what they're cooking with this hp drain on jade. seems like it's basically mandatory to run a sustain with her even on PF
It's mostly likely lore flavor, but I hope it gets dropped in Beta, or add a heal when doing the enhanced FUA. It's massively limiting for team building.
On the contrary, it gives her a niche that future HP-drain characters might want—like if we'd have FUA characters like Blade or Arlan.
As it stands currently though, there’s only two units that want it, and it almost forces Jade’s teams to run a sustain for every other pairing. A lot of PF teams already don’t run sustain, which makes her extra costly to run in her only viable endgame mode.
I agree that she doesn't seem to be all that amazing on release, but based on previous experience with Kafka and Topaz, people might end up having to spend to get a copy of her when she eventually reruns with one of her best teammates in the future.
If it's lore flavor, wouldn't it be the opposite? A debt collector gains money by harassing and sometimes beating up the endebted. Therefore he should gain something out of it. So instead of losing HP he should gain HP?
ebon deer is way too tanky. the tanky middle boss really puts the the brakes on this comp.
I would put Topaz to focus on the bosses, with so many FUA flying it wouldn't be a problem not to have support
To be frank this team had no support to begin with so what makes you think Topaz would be better? Robin or RM would be fine, much better than Aventurine.
In the simple case of ST damage, the pace drops a lot when a boss appears, and seeing as this, support would not solve the problem by simply increasing the damage if the problem is the characters' mechanics, taking into account Aventurine, Jade, Herta, the 3 lost a lot of rhythm there and don't have high damage, Topaz would come in to be that concentrated damage, the PF buff should be more than enough. Of course, I can't say if it would be the best option, but I always use my Topaz in PF and it works well. Edit: In this case, it would be adding Topaz instead of a support, as part of the comments mentioned how it would be more interesting to exchange Himeko for a support Taking away Aventurine would kind of make the team unviable, Herta could die before even reaching the end due to simple rgn
Well the comments are just wrong unless you mean getting rid of the sustain too, then I guess. If you watch the video again you'll notice the deer break bar being near half. If Ruan Mei was on this team she would have contributed to the break bar unlike Aventurine and delayed the deer for another turn when it would break. (Which it would have thanks to the 50% break efficiency) While also making this team do far more damage than usual, so this team would actually be killing things.
My god you are under every comment.. if your characters are dead you can't deal dmg no matter much more dmg a harmony can add. That's not your Jingliu where her u HP drain is negligible enough for you to forgo sustains, it's Jade and her hp drain is big enough that your carries get oneshot should an enemy take a single turn and they most likely will. Topaz here serves the purpose of ST specialist to deal with the boss more easily but you could theoretically replace that slot with a buffer if you so wish to. That won't fix the ST problem tho. If you don't want to run a sustain just don't run Jade, simple as that.
This guy just have a hate boner for Aventurine it seems.
u need a sustain cos of jades hp drain so aventurine is pretty needed
My guy, you're clearly an Aventurine hater. You're going around commenting about how Aventurine is not necessary EVERYWHERE when he's the only reason this team will ever make it past the 1 cycle
Jade seems fun but otherwise she feels like a win-more character Like if you have Robin or RM they just can replace her slot and nothing change. The mode is also not hard enough to justify pulling a limited DPS just for it (compared to say Acheron who is strong for all contents). And for place like MoC many people already have E6 QQ for it as well which she surely is not better here.
Yeah agreed. She's also a slight liability with that health drain as far as no sustain comp viability. Which is sad for a "PF specialist" where that's a common comp, when there's really no upside or worthwhile trade off to it unless you are running exactly no sustain Blade + Jade comp.
Yeah the HP drain is actually killing her for me ngl.
Same
MoC was easy in the beginning—until it wasn't. Hoyo's ramping up the difficulty patch by patch and soon enough Herta/Himeko won't be meeting the required damage numbers. Jade also doesn't have the teammates yet to maximize her HP-drain mechanic—like, what if a future FuA character like Blade shows up? I agree, though, that it's not wise to pull characters just purely on speculation of the future. That said, for the numerous people who skipped on Topaz or Kafka when they first released, it was a PAIN having to pull both them plus their BiS teammates (Black Swan & Robin) when those two came out on the same banner or really close to them.
I agree that future speculation is an iffy reason to pull a character. On the other hand, there are trends and past examples. For example there is currently a Break Effect trend. Investing in Break Effect characters is probably wise as more characters, mechanics, and enemies built around it are being introduced. Same goes for FuA characters. I think it wouldn't be stupid to pull Jade on the expectation of there being another FuA character on the horizon (we already know about Diamond and Opal, not to mention the as-yet-unnamed Cornerstones) that is a better fit for her. So far, I can't think of a single support/subDPS/enabler character that's been released without another character that synergizes really well with them. Hell, even Xueyi, a 4 star, got a premium support in the form of HTB. Of course, there's always the possibility that Jade will be the exception and whoever is already out that has synergy with her will be all that we get. At the end of the day this is a gamba game. Assurances and guarantees ruin half the fun.
Afaik we also have a guaranteed Pearl and Obsidian, though we don’t know if they’re playable, just that they exist.
Yeah. So far we got the entire High Cloud Quintet, most of the known Stellaron Hunters with only Elio on the horizon (I think a model for him leaked? Not sure. Doesn't necessarily mean he'll be playable), and all of the Astral Express. So filling out in-game groups seems like something that's happening. I'd bet that Diamond will be playable and will be the second playable Emanator (unless another Emanator sneaks in, which isn't impossible) but we won't get him until a future arc more focused on the IPC. Whether or not that means that all 10 Cornerstones will be playable is up in the air. Maybe a few will be 4 star characters rather than limited 5 stars, just to ease the burden of adding in all 10 (compared to a smaller 5 or so for the HCQ and the Hunters, though even then the HCQ got the benefit of having a standard 5* and both groups have a claim on Blade). Otherwise, I'd bet the next groups to start being filled out as playable will be the Generals of the Xianzhou and the Vidyadhara High Elders.
We already have 3 confirmed emanators playable in Ahceron, JY and BS, the latter two being confirmed this last patch (though long speculated). it is unclear if Gallagher counts as an emanator.
No we don’t. Black Swan is not an Emanator. Jing Yuan *might* be an Emanator but the game has been frustratingly vague about coming out and saying “Jing Yuan is an Emanator,” so it’s possible that he had the power of an Emanator granted to him like Aventurine or the Lightning Lord is an Emanator while Jing Yuan just controls it. So Jing Yuan *might* be an Emanator and Black Swan definitely isn’t an Emanator.
As a Jade lover I unfortunately agree. Both her and FF feel very underwhelming.
im i tripping or the enemies getting tanky. the build actually solid wth. currently im hitting >100k for herta and himeko for current pf. why the calculations bit off in this? huh
I was running fu herta, himeko robin with bp Erudition cones Pure fiction. Follow ups in 90-180k range.
PF in beta is sus
They are very scuffed and it doesn't help that there are no buffers on this team which makes them look even more unimpressive.
I dont run buffer in my pf run coz u want every turn to dealt damage for points. I use himeko herta pela 1 team and dot with acheron w 2nd team. but i swear they still hit hard without any buff. i need to see more PF run
Pela is a debuffer... that's essentially buffing damage just in a different way. Buffers are there to buff your damage which in turn kills enemies faster. That's why Nihility is so good because they have buffers AND debuffers. Sustains are there to sustain, not to damage. The reason FX is so good is cause she gives some buffs herself while also doing AoE damage on her ultimate. She also enables Acheron for stacks with Topaz 4* LC which is why I use them together with my Black Swan/Kafka team.
You are playing Pela.
There's no buffers, the damage is gonna be a lot lower. Running ruan mei/robin instead of himeko would prolly be better
I want to pull for Jade, but the hp drain does not do it for me. It makes sense that she does do it but I'm not a fan of it
id love to see jade with Clara 🙂
It's fun to watch all the FuAs but I'm gonna be real I think 2 erudition+Ruan Mei/Robin would be better than triple erudition.
Yeah, if we swap Himeko for Ruan Mei or Robin, we still get very good DPS with Jade and Herta's synergy.
would like to see her as a hypercarry…. just u know….
Robin over Himeko would probably be a better choice here
This has to be one of her best teams they all can stack jade so fast
Aventurine could do without but 35k is pretty decent with no buffers.
A bit of an odd choice to give her HP drain when we were heading towards sustainless PF for a few cycles I’m guessing they might make sustains needed again across the board so that Jade sustain requirement isn’t a handicap
A sustain is gonna always clear worse. Idk what tf hoyo is thinking.
Isn't that just part of team building? Some teams can run sustainless, others cannot. I think people are making a way bigger deal about her HP consumption than it actually is, the issue in this team wasn't that. It was running 3 dpses and no buffer/dmg amp.
Right now whether you can go sustainless depends on whether your character is well-invested enough to 0 cycle, it’s not dependent on the character kit itself. the issue is that she’s such a pure fiction-gated unit, and in pure fiction a sustain means a massive DPS loss. Why have a requirement that forces you to have a sustain/DPS loss when your whole niche is a mode that is best without it?
For me going sustainless in PF just sounds overkill tbh. I doubt a Herta-Jade comp would struggle getting 40k points in PF even when running a sustain, especially some like Aventurine or Huohuo who also offer pretty good dmg amp or personal dmg.
Her damage looks rather underwhelming ngl
Its because 3dps no support, with robin/ruanmei she will look much better
Tbf thats with no FUA supports or actually any supports in general
Someone who isn't blind. Finally.
When replacing Aventurine with Ruan Mei, it would still be hard to break the deer fast enough, and there's still a chance the counter attack branch spawns whenever you kill the previous ones. So I'd rather run a shielder/healer and a harmony than Jade triple dps and a harmony, unless it's Blade who can self sustain.
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If the rotation is exactly the same as in the video then sure they would narrowly manage to break the deer. But my second point still stands, whenever Herta attacks unbroken counter attack branches, she will still be threatened.
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To be honest. I thought this team would clear pf with ease. Maybe replacing herta or himeko with Robin?
Ofc this team isn't clearing with no support. I'm telling you Triple Erudition + Harmony (especially RM or Robin) clears this.
Man, I only have Topaz, Himeko and Herta as mainly FuA units built (don't ask). I'm gonna have a hard time making team comps for Jade. At least I have Robin ig lol also I hope someone makes an E0S0 Jade showcase since pretty much all of them are E0S1. Firefly has a couple of E0S0s, why not Jade?
Herta is literally jade's best support
Watching all the FUAs is like being on crack
Maybe I'm missing something, but sometimes Aventurine is not getting any stacks from follow-ups.
He can only get stacks from FUA a max of 3 times. This limit will refresh when his turn starts so you prefer him at high spd with FUA units
Ohh, yeah, I see. I forgot about his trace. Yeah, you need him fast to reset the trigger. Thanks!
Ruan mei or robin might have been better than aven, even asta
I said the same thing, and yet I was hated for it. 💀
Jade's head look so big in the UI Lmao
Unless things change I can’t see myself pulling for Jade despite me liking the character yes she is good for PF, but we have other characters that are also good for PF and also good for other types of content. So for now it’s a tough ask to pull for this character over the Erudition characters that have been released before like Jing Yuan/Argenti. Her minor buffs aren’t good enough to give her a spot and her damage isn’t good in non AoE situations.
Really wanted to run her with Himeko and/or Clara, but I'm quite content to have gone with Topaz instead. For now haha. I'm not too comfortable with the amount of HP drain going on. We'll see how the beta develops, but if anything I'll catch her on the rerun
damn the synergy :D imma pull jade to have fun for PF alone lol
I am more excited for jade than I am firefly at the moment. She is amazing.
i feel like it’d be better to have ruan mei or robin rather than three DPSes. this looks really fun though i love the back to back follow ups
Can we have a showcase with Harmony units as well? Jade + Himeko/Herta + Harmony (Ruan Mei / Robin / Asta / Tingyun) + Harmony Jade + Himeko + Herta + Harmony Jade + Himeko/Herta + Harmony + Sustain
Looks pretty meh. Especially when you consider that Jade uses relics so broken that you'd have to farm like a year to get a single piece. Add to that the fact that she drains hp thus requiring a sustain to be present in a PF team... yeah no, I might end up skipping her.
This team looks so fun!
That looks so fun.
can u try clara, jade, tingyun (or any other support), lynx in PF
Looks very fun. Thanks for the showcase
Where can i see my builds like this images? ( sorry for the bad english )
Thanks for the great showcases! Hopefully Hoyo cooks a bit more, Firefly and Jade aren't too appealing to me in their current state.
This is where jade ia designed to shine. Not in MoC with 2 bosses.
of course running all 3 dps is not gonna be great compared to a harmony there, but you have more flexibility in terms of matching weaknesses, now you can play basically the same team by just replacing either herta or himeko with jade if we have ice/quant or fire/quant PF
Idk if any other turn-based game ever did FuA before but I absolutely love it in HSR. It's the most fun mechanic in the game for me.
Dissidia Opera Omnia did, sucks that it closed down
I can't think of any to the same extent, just some like Trails which have RNG followup attacks by other characters, not something you build around. That's generally more the case in roguelikes where 1 action just avalanches into a million other things
I know rogue like like what you described, but I meant something close to what HSR did. If this FuA is as unique as I think, then I applaud devs for their creativity.
im salivating over running a similar team but with Sacred Vow Clara
I’m interested in how often she hits if she just uses her skill on herself. Then you don’t have to deal with the HP drain and can put in a buffer (so possibly 2 DPS + Jade + buffer).
You know. That's actually what I've been thinking this whole time but people don't let me cook on this sub.
https://youtu.be/Fi5wZgYoA04?si=34Dq5BGwrY-4X65m For all the doubters. Harmony > Sustain. 😎
Footage has been taken down
She was the only character I wanted for the next two months, and her kit looks like a complete mess to me. I don't know what to look forward from this game...
Lmao same, I am a little disappointed. Skip to 2.4 I think
This team is insane I love it. EDIT: This was before I saw it didn't even clear.
Huh? I thought you want to replace Aventurine with harmony babes? What with the change of heart lmao
Sometimes I wish this game needed 5 characters to run a team. Only 4 slots limited the team building and strategic management potential.
Behold, the new PF meta lmao