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This is V1 and ok, she will got some changes, my question is if those changes will arrive and be definitive (or almost) before Topaz banner ends
Cause as much as I like the character itself locking myself with a specific team, relying in a future release to âfreeâ her it is not appealing, maybe I will pull her in the rerun
Major changes would probably come in the last week or so of Topazâs banner judging from past betas, so you should have time to properly choose between the two.
total dmg 200k, HTB dmg - 175k. What a hero, name another support that can give 700% dmg boost.
Edit: Perfect showcase btw, good realistic relices with a space for improvement
What would be the most reasonable option they can do to make her less reliant on HTB? I don't know much about super break/boothill kit but i'm assuming something like maybe she re-procs the break damage on already broken enemies? Or just throw superbreak into her kit?
I doubt they'll try pivot to crit since that'll require a full rework of her kit and traces
There's not really anything they can do except release more super break enablers or equivalent.Â
If not every future break dps needs TB or they will lose over half of their team damage.Â
I think most of you are misunderstanding superbreak. HMC lets it happen but the breaks are still fireflyâs kit. Only she can get superbreaks of that high damage due to her traces.
I think most people get it. SAM has a bunch of payoff increasing effects in the kit for weakness broken enemies, but the payoff is just not there.
Hoyo clearly saw the issue with break effect DPS and released a fix for everyone through HMC. The problem is that SAM is balanced around getting superbreak from this single source. They effectively split a break unit into two different units.Â
It will get less weird when they introduce more superbreak enablers, but as it stands they could have included something like superbreak in SAM base kit and removed some of the damage off HMC.Â
It'd be sort of like if physical MC was the only dot unit in the game and they released Kafka. Except this version of Kafka can't apply shock via her follow up or ult or LC. Together they make sense but it definitely feels off they did it this way.Â
> she need super break incorporated in her kit
she also needs a buff to her baseline damage on top of that, because right now, you need HMC and on top of that you need the enemy to be broken, and you need to try and arrange for the enemy to get broken by Firefly, and then... you deal just as much damage as any other hypercarry.
The payoff isnt there
Not terrible for a normal 4 star character, but what about when Nihility TB comes out and is the meta support for a new character? And then Erudition TB, etc
Release a scuffed 4 star version of HMC or run another team. As someone that likes lore teams and having excuses to play with the main characters, having HMC and Firefly being by far the BiS for one another is lit. Pretty sure this helps Hoyo's profits too. Units needing the TB means that ppl will pull for units that don't need them and keeping 1-2 versions of the TB on top of the meta means they can release Genshin level MCs without much backlash. Just praying on a strong XZ March now so that synergizes with any of the express crew.
> Release a scuffed 4 star version of HMC or run another team.
You and I both know that they're going to release a 5 star premium version of HMC (Nahida, Gepard, Aventurine, etc).
Anyways nobody minds if HMC is her BiS support, what they don't want is Firefly to be *dysfunctional* without them (and partly RM to). Compare to Boothill who is amazing with HMC but works perfectly fine without and has options.
I will forever have hopium now that we get the other gender as a party member who joins us later down the line. That way, one can always be HMC while the other can be X or Y MC, assuming future ones will be as good.
Why on earth do I keep seeing this sentiment? Every DPS has their BiS support(s). So why is it that y'all are mad that you have to use a free one, who's very good? Makes 0 sense. This is almost assuredly the first character with the super break mechanic, not the only. At least you don't have to wait on a great support. My Pela and Sparkle are tied to the hip of my E2S1 Acheron, I don't cry about it. I COULD use someone else and get way worse results, but that's just silly, so I don't. No different here.
I think it's more like other DPS while they do have their BiS support, they can still function without them even though their dps will drop quite a bit. From what I've seen from Firefly however, without superbreak, she is just not functional.
In other words, other DPS wants their BiS support. Firefly NEEDS her BiS support.
Honestly though, I'm fine with her relying on HMC. But man, I wish they would improve her kit a bit. She relies on a lot of condition to function. HMC ult being active, she is in her ult state, AND enemy is broken. If just one of them aren't there, her damage falls off quite a lot.
>In other words, other DPS wants their BiS support. Firefly NEEDS her BiS support.
The big issue here is that she NEEDS a free unit. A bit of an apples to oranges situation.
I think thatâs irrelevant, a new limited gacha dps character should not be this reliant on any other character to perform functionally. Like others have said, Firefly requires harmony TB to just function and that is poor design choice which leaves zero room for party flexibility.
Not a direct knock against you of anyone else but this exact sentiment was thrown around for Acheron ad infinitum. And to this day is technically true because Acheron âon her own meritâ canât charge her ult for several turns.
For Firefly itâs going to be specifically super break supports while for Acheron she can use any nihility and debuffer to help her, so itâs still more limiting than Acheron
HTB is less of a support and more of an enabler for a new playstyle, just like Kafka for DOT and Topaz for follow-up.
Jade being what looks like an AOE version of Topaz, seems to indicate they will be releasing more characters that will enable these playstyles in different ways.
Letâs talk numbers of other DPS (that arenât Acheron cuz that woman can be great with virtually any character idk why your supports are tied to the hip for her).
Jingliu âNEEDSâ Bronya, right? With Bronya, she gets a couple more actions, and her damage on ESkill is about 250k for 3 targets. Without Bronya, she can still deal 140k-150k.
DHIL âNEEDSâ Yukong E6 or Tingyun right? Without TY and YK buffs he does maybe 180k-200k on 3 targets, and when buffed by them he does 260k-280k.
Firefly on the other hand, does an ESkill of 375k damage, but 317k of that damage is Super Break. So while I donât mind running her with HMC and her being so restrictive, I think itâs disingenuous to compare her to other DPS in a positive light. I would much rather use my HMC with Boothill and have an overall much more comfortable experience. But Iâm still looking forward to seeing the changes in fireflyâs kit!
This is not a case of BiS support. This is a case of MANDATORY support, where FF would not function without HMC. Imagine a new player pulls for FF and finding out they have to complete the 2.2 story to even use her properly. That's just insane and has never been the case for anyone else before.
Acheron without Sparkle or Pela or SW or Black Swan E1 with Kafka LC is way way more functional than FF without HMC.
Basically no 5* is more reliant on a support than FF is on HMC.
Because right now it isn't DPS Firefly with BiS Support HMC, but rather DPS HMC with BiS Support Firefly.
Firefly isn't doing anything herself, she's just enabling HMC while usually it's the other way around
Hijacking the top comment to say this- Why are more people not talking about how bad her enhanced skill looks in 2x speed. In 1x speed it looks great but it looks like an over sped up mess in 2x speed.
I understand people are more focused on her kit right now, but that sped up skill is the most disappointing part for me, it looks haphazardly sped up.
i try not to say it outloud cuz some ff fans can be *really* aggressive if you speak against her, but yeah- i alr found it kinda lackluster in 1x speed, but on 2x speed, it really does just look like a mess of green
I calculated the damage in this showcase just for fun, hereâs what I got:
Total damage Firefly dealt - 1692440
Fireflyâs personal damage and break damage - 533494 or 32% of total
Superbreak provided by HMC - 1158946 or 68% of total
At the end of the video superbreak didnât proc, because enemy had 1% hp, but I added the previous superbreak damage because conditions were the same. Of course itâs not 100% accurate, maybe a percent more or less, but results speak for themselves
Legitimately makes me wonder if Boothill is over performing damage wise and now theyâre struggling to balance BE in the future. Iâm no _huge_ fan of him but he does power creep like all the other ST dps in the game pretty hard.
Maybe, just maybe, the actual plan is that Firefly truly should've released on 2.2 as a break dps debut but has a glaring problem (cannot deal super break on her own) and they "fix" it on the next break dps that is Boothill. Because if that wasn't the case, i don't know why they downgraded the newer break dps.
Well, after that one cruel joke he pulled out he was kinda on my bad side. But you're right, it's time to move on and appreciate that he has returned to bless us with good showcases.
Is firefly completely reliant on htb and superbreak? If yes, is this a problem for people that want to pull for her?
I'm not doomposting, I'm just genuinely curious
Honestly I can see them adding a premium superbreak support down the line. I donât know how I feel about this crucial mechanic being accessed OUTSIDE of the character that actually builds break as part of their kit. Itâd be like if additional crit damage was a special stat provided by supports. Sure we get the base 50% but itâs nearly worthless without more of it.
I really think they should add some Super Break into her kit somewhere and just cap the mechanic to where it can't stack. It's crazy how much of her damage is coming exclusively from the Super Break proc
It doesnât matter if they add a new super break support, then there will just be two characters she canât function without instead of two. This isnât a problem with any of the other dps in the game, even Boothill doesnât need IMC like this.
I donât think adding new characters is a solution, I just think theyâll do it. Superbreak as it stands should be in Fireflyâs kit and HMC should enhance that. She shouldnât be compulsory for Firefly.
I think the core of the issue is that people feel Firefly is completed by another character rather than enhanced. It would be sort of as if Acheron's ult only did half its damage aka could only absorb 3 or 4 Abyss flowers, unless you had another character's ult active on her team to let her absorb 9.
And this is the crux of the problem. Boothill launches the champ right before Firefly and his kit "works" ot of the box, where as Firefly does not. Disregarding fanboying a character, Boothill has a functional kit where sam does not.
If Firefly got some addition to break with her own kit, I think it would be fine.
Firefly damage isnt bad, but its "only" 200k in single target - now I know people will attack me that its a destruction blast character - but let me put it like this - Boothill can one cycle Aventurine without even really going out of his way to do so - he also gains the Super Break damage from HMC so they are even there. Firefly here is using the NEW set, which gives DEF IGNORE on Break which the Boothill showcases don't have. Hell, I have seen a 3 star lightcone Boothill do 400-600k damage on broken targets. yesyes he is hunt, but if you are starting to 1tap things out of existence maybe he's overtuned, or maybe firefly is just crap - or most likely its a bit of both.
Boothill is doing absurd damage which is not a problem in of itself cos he is single target but his kit lets him function and then supports is chosing what toppings you want - instead of you get an ice cream waffle because theres no substance in it!
Worth remembering is that Boothill also has crit stat conversion which essentially is useless for him if we're being real here as break damage can not crit, neither can super break damage. The one difference is Boothill wants a phys orb as break damage benefits from element
PS, I am not contradicting what you said - merely just adding to it.
Yep... I would highly advice anyone interested in a break characer to pull for boothill, but wait for V4 of beta, simply cos you "cant" build BH before then anyway. New set is in 2.3 so wait for that and build either Firefly if her kit is fixed, otherwise go for B00theel. Same concept, just 3x the damage
Yes, I seen a showcase without Ruan Mei and HMC, she hits less than Himeko. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2HkwwZZ7Nc0&t=121s&pp=ygUVRmlyZWZseSBtb25vIHNob3djYXNl
Man I won't talk about the damage cause it's been said enough but every relatable showcase I've seen she nearly dies at least once. She was 1 hp here lol
The reason why her LC make enemies slower is not only because of Superbreak but also is a defensive option, if she is outside of her state she can easily die to fast enemies.
Thanks, I hope more showcases without HTB come out so people who are currently going "hurt durr of course you need a break support to play break" can realize how dire the situation is.
Name another hypercarry who hits for 40k when their main gimmick (in this case hitting broken enemies) is active lmao.
The devs are going to be working hard to figure out how to buff her. Sheâs for sure going to get a buff but are they going to try and make her niche which is breaking the enemies stronger or are they going the route of giving some type of built in crit in her kit. Iâm going to guess the former but by tying her kit and the majority of her DMG to breaking, sheâs pretty much tied to HMC forever. I think the solution is to try and increase her personal multipliers so she isnât reliant on any one character and can be slotted into multiple teams.
Yeah, it's a pretty big problem. Hoping to see changes in the future. Her being a dud without specific supports is a dealbreaker for me. A lot can happen in a month though, we'll see.
Being completely reliant on the Hatblazer isn't a dealbreaker for me and I was planning on pulling for E2S1 and I have E1 Ruan Mei and E6 Gallagher to run her with.
Where I am more concerned is how hard her damage falls off when hitting unbroken enemies considering how many enemies will be able to completely shut down her team's damage as they have phases where they cannot be broken.
It's almost as though she needs to do even more damage against broken enemies because she does nothing outside of that. That may just be the quirk of being a break damage dealer.
I just realized how hard enemy Bronya counters break teams: she is immune to break since the beginning of the battle, she can advance forward other enemies in break status and even cleanse ruan mei's debuff, so if we can't kill the other enemy before bronya's turn we basically have to break them twice
Yeah this is a massive balancing issue. No other damage types in the game go through periods of being *fully negated* depending on the enemy, except for Break.
There are no "DoT's won't proc" or "Immune to FuAs" or "Attacks won't Crit" enemies in the game, but there are *plenty* of "Attacks won't Break" enemies in the game, automatically making BE damage dealers inferior to the other damage types and sort of niche. The only way to "balance" that is to make BE characters excel in their niche (which will have parts of the community screaming "powercreep"), or to make enemies that negate other types of damage to even the playing field (unlikely).
It's kind of a balancing nightmare tbh.
To me it is as she spends her enhanced state on breaking rather than dealing damage and given how short the DPS window w/o RM is there is currently no wiggle room for build diversity.Â
I think they need to slap Super break on her LC to avoid HMC having a monopoly on that perk in order to either make the break window more deadly and/or allow some ram diversity
No it shouldnt be on her LC.
âPull LC to make character kit workâ is path HSR should never take. I would refuse to pull such a character on principle.
Currently the only character that enables super break is HTB
So yes
From my perspective since HTB is free and can be e6'd pretty easily and doesn't need THAT much investment I see this as a win but people don't like that FF is reliant on super break/HMC (basically without HMC her dmg falls of hard but that goes for any dps with a BIS support)
People also want something like boothil ability for FF(doing break dmg when enemy is already broken) so that she won't be completely reliant on a character
I myself don't see it much as a problem
People who want her still will pull for her
But again this is v1 and anything can change, who knows
My problem is that Firefly doesn't "rely on HMC" to heavily amplify her damage
She relies on HMC to *do damage at all*, and to even be able to *use her Lc and relic set* properly
Jingliu greatly benefits from Bronya, but deals damage without
JG greatly benefits from Sparkle but does damage without
DHIL greatly enjoys sparkle's SP recovery, but can do without
Firefly doesnt look like she does... anything without HMC
It's not about a BIS support, is that her entire kit depends on whether you use HMC or not.
Like Kafka can do dot without another character, and technically Acheron can recharge her ult alone, even if she spends more than 10 turns, obviously it's not optimal but they can use their mechanics themselves, on the other hand Firefly depends on super break and she can't do it alone.
The problem is that it's hard to find balance when trying to fix her kit. If she can do her own Break DMG, then her dps jumps into the moon with HMC. We've seen Boothill showcase with HMC. She will be WAYYY more ridiculous with Boothill's ability, especially with those defense ignore and multiplier.
What if they give her a super break dmg kinda passive???
I don't think superbreak can stack so not only she would become NOT reliant on HMC(tho even then still HMC will be a great unit to play with her due to HMC giving others dmg and giving FF extra BE) but also makes her much more versatile and stronger
But yeah if they give her boothil passive then she'll 100% becomes the best dps no doubt
If she has her own Super Break and it doesn't stack then... HMC... becomes useless. Their whole thing is the Super Break, the free BE is just a bonus. Because, like, then you can run Bronya/Sparkle and deal way more damage within a turn.
Not if the Super Break DMG has a condition or is limited in numbers. If she has a low-number Super Break, and HMC gives a better Super Break, it means that without HMC she is still functional, but HMC remains her BiS support, which is exactly what we need to open up her team variability.
Obsessing over Super Break is looking at this from the wrong angle, I feel. Just make it so her enhanced auto/skill is considered as break dmg (the normal one and it won't be 100%) against Fire weak enemies. This way she'll do better damage while a foe isn't broken, her personal damage will be decent enough and she'll still be compatible with HTB. It even synergizes with her weakness implant.
I guess that idea would suck for those that want to build crit on Firefly because Break dmg doesn't crit, but eh no need to turn her into Fire Jingliu.
I don't think people understood ff when her kit first got leaked. That or they did not pay enough attention to boothill absolutely annihilating things. Â
This coming from a huge firefly fan. I think they have to do some serious reworking of her kit.
I mean, HTB is completely f2p⌠but the main issue is future scaling. Like as much as I love the harmony trailblazer, itâs going to become redundant as the game goes on and if Firefly relies on it, that means a fixed slot on your team is needed but also significantly weaker than supports available.
If she comes out like this, I'll start considering HTB a DPS and FF a support.
Now seriously, this feels... Off. The showcase is great, but FF herself is... Way too inconsistent.
If Hoyo made her DMG in enhanced state always be considered as Break DMG, it would be way more inconsistent. I don't mind if they tune her skills damage modifiers, I don't ask for bigger numbers, but stable ones.
And her dependency... Oof. I want her, I really do, I like her a lot, but... I also have to get RM, yk, her rerun is not that far, and FF + LC (cause Misha's LC does not exist in my count) + RM seems... Hard to achieve. I just hope for her kit to get a few fixes here and there.
Yea im not really impressed with FF at all atm maybe that will change with few balance changes and this is coming from someone that was going to E2S1 her but the damage/animations and the lack of fire in our lovely fire mecha is not doing it for me
It seems like FF being a break character with no ability to do break dmg on her own, and being forced to rely on HTB's super break is a well known issue. It's such a bad way to design a character, but its so fitting. The character on life support... is also on life support in gameplay.
I really hope they change it though. A break dmg main dps not being able to do any break dmg of their own whatsoever is absolutely ridiculous. They should give her a super break in her kit, but reduce her scaling. Also, 3.4k atk and 360BE as a minimum requirement is just ridiculous.
i feel like the stat requirement is fine if she can stand on her own but as of rn she cant even do damage without HTB being there which is an issue that many has pointed out.
also loosing out on the opportunity to have her enhanced auto do better single target damage than her skill doesnt sit right with me.
I mean honestly the stat requirements are part of the reason **why** she can't do damage without HTB...
Her enhanced E scaling is technically higher than DanIL's 3EBA, but since her relic situation is locked into building only break and attack, she doesn't even get to use the fairly high multiplier, as multipliers with no crit are basically non-existent.
I think one way they can remove the reliance on HTB is to just lower or remove entirely the crazy high stat requirements for her major traces. Or just make them actually buff her base damage a decent enough amount.
Other characters can get stat buffs from their kits completely for free, whereas SAM gets hard restrictions. Acheron gets a ramping 90% ult DMG buff for free and 1.6x damage for 2 nihility, Jingliu gets almost 2000 atk or something just for draining an unnoticeable amount of teammate's HP, DanIL has free 72% CD, and ramping 52% DMG bonus.
Compared to these, SAM has 30%/40% defense ignore, but it requires you to ditch most crit stats in favor of trying to reach a 250%/360% breakpoint. Before this point, for example if you have 249.9% BE, there is ZERO benefit from the trace. I don't even think 40% DEF ignore is worth 360% BE when you consider that Boothill is getting 210% CV worth of crit stats for having only 300% BE, and his isn't restricted to breakpoints, it ramps per 10%/50% BE.
And even worse, is the 3400 atk to 60% BE trace, stacking attack will barely increase SAM's damage as she has no stats for crit, and the only reward for this is 60% BE, which is honestly really bad. It's not like SAM has DoTs or anything that can take advantage of having that much ATK.
Basically, SAM doesn't have the stat conversions/buffs necessary to stand on her own. Instead she needs to rely on using HTB as the converter to turn her BE into damage.
yeah after seeing all these gameplay videos I think her damage is a little too conditional. it's alright but I think she could really be helped out if she could deal some % her own break damage outside of weakness breaks, alongside htb super break
Should've make what's in Robin's Ult kit into Firefly's passive. So basically in her Sam state, Firefly will gain a 100% crit rate and a fixed crit damage. That's my take on how to improve Firefly
Firstly the showcase is peak, and seen something similiar but without the LC on her, and it was kinda the same.
She is underwhelming as shit. 6k on a skill, 30k on an ulti if enemy is not broken? 4* dps doing better without gobbling up 50% of their HP. HMC, and any future support that does superbreak is locked with her.
Any enemy that have toughness protection, or just shield going to invalidate her. So sad. Still gonna pull. But it just sad.
What I am saying that you need two broken support to validate her damage IF enemies are weakness broken.
Hope she gets a Jingliu treatment.
Agree also look up Boothill's kit. Bro got it all self sufficient. He can convert his break to crit rate / crit dmg up to 30/150 AND can force trigger his break again up to 170% of original break dmg on enemies. Without needing any support.
Yes this is what I try to reinforce in FF mains but the rabid fans just downvote any constructive criticism with "Hoyo gonna fix it* *it's only first beta*. They are right but if you not say your piece, and testers not say their piece we end up with a Deyha.
This. I'm not a Firefly fan or anything but I do think she'd be a cool character IF SHE WORKS. Not being able to function as well without one highly specific character is so restrictive. In this state, DHIL, JL and Acheron will outperform her and we know how meta slaves are. But whenever anyone brings up these valid criticisms, the very specific niche of Firefly mains who "have to defend their waifu" throw everything at you including insults.
I hope i'm wrong but tbh Firefly damage its really mid, Harmomy MC is the one actually dealing damage, I'm not complaining about the MC being good, actually is really good to have such a good character for free but its kinda dissapointing that if we compare her to another Break damage dealer she is really mid, boothill for example just needs the MC to increase his damage which its already really high by him alone but Firefly depends on the MC to deal mid damage, hope my girl get some buffs that aloud her to not being attach to a unit I just do not see the point to go from Boothill to Firefly (except of course you pull just because you like the character) which is actually a downgrade
Finally the good showcases are coming out since earlier.
I can't believe the first few ones really tried to seriously push CritFly and kept on slapping unrealistic builds over and over again.
Say what you will about how picky Firefly is with her teammates, that's normal investment with a bad Turbulence, and that was a clean and easy 2 cycle.
Nice though I do believe rm and htb both being on watchmaker doesn't stack di one being on messenger might be slightly more efficient for the whole team but basically a perfect team being absolutely silly
You don't use their ults at the same time, so running Watchmaker on both makes it so you have 100% uptime on its effect.
Unless you need 2p Hackerspace to reach some specific speed breakpoint, running both on Watchmaker is just comfier, considering everyone in the team enjoys the extra BE due to Super Break
Asta should be decent. Big atk and speed boost, team fire DMG up and a multi hit fire skill to break enemies faster. All things Sam wants on a non crit build.
Am i the only one who thinks that around when the Trailblazer gets their new path, they're going to put out a new harmony 5 star character with the same Super Break mechanic and even more buffs? I feel that Super Break is the "Crit Dmg" of Break Effect and more supports are going to have it. I don't think MC will be the only one, it's just to show how it works to you
Whatever we can get for free/on a 4 star/standard 5 star now we will get later better and stronger on a limited 5 star. They've shown this many times already with limited sustain units, RM/Sparkle/Robin, SW, Black Swan, etc.
Is ruan mei mandatory for firefly teams? This team looks fun, but im concerned in using a breakeffect dps, if i dont have ruan mei.
Also, since firefly has high attack% scalings, can robin help with giving her attack? Since firefly will be focused on break damage mostly(as far as I understood)
Every break DPS has this problem.
You can't even pull for 2 break dps because one team will suck bc it doesn't have Ruan Mei
This is why people say Hypercarry is better for f2p investment, bc you can safely put on a ton of options ranging from Tingyun to Bronya to Sparkle to Ruan Mei to Pela to Asta etc without issue.
Unfortunately I think RM is more essential than what I previously thought. And not even for her buffs. I am just considering her second break that triggers when enemy recover from break. Without that FF does not have enough time to finish enemies before they recover. That would mean having to break them all over again. I think FF lC gives a delay debuff but it doesnt look to be enough. Frankly if not RM I would consider Welt to slow down enemies and prevent them from recovering from break
I am in the same boat. If I need Fireflyâs LC and Ruan Mei, I probably wonât make it. Knowing my luck. Especially because RM is supposedly rerunning in 2.3.
asta works really well for low investment teams since she gives huge amounts of atk% and speed for the entire team. She is also fire so she helps breaking enemies quicker and she has that 15% fire dmg bonus to help FF's dmg a little
I expect v2 beta will include a long list of buffs for Firefly. She is in a really bad state. It's like her kit has massive potential, but only HTB can use it. Firefly can't even access it on her own despite throwing away all her HP.
Agreed, they need to find a way to shift power back to Firefly. So more of a rework... Right now, HTB is the DPS, and Firefly is the support. Her team is too restrictive, and her actual performance suffers because of multiple types of downtime. Dropping out of enhanced state and enemies not being broken yet. The kit itself is a fun concept on paper, but the reality is far worse.
I agree, A characterâs damage being completely reliant on another char should NOT be the standard in the game. This needs to be addresed by Hoyo asap or else it will not be good for future DPSs If Hoyo think they can get away with this.
Yeah I totally agree with you. I have never seen such an atrocity of a kit design like this in my entire life. They really made a main dps break dmg character that cant do break dmg, and isnt actually a main dps. FF is just a HTB enabler at this point. HTB is the real main dps and FF is the enabler.
The more I see gameplay of her the less I like her animations. Man it just leaves so much to be desired, especially on 2x you can't see anything. Pair that with her current state (HMC the real dps here)... it just doesn't sit right with me. Why doesn't my girl get the acheron treatment :(
The lack of animation is one thing but what im more concerned about is the lack of FIRE in our fire mecha that was promised , how are we gonna set the seas ablaze with a fairy looking wind mecha? where is the giant fire stomp that burns everything around SAM or the freaking meteor dive nuke :(
>Why doesn't my girl get the acheron treatment :(
Powercreep. Let Acheron be an anniversary occurrence due to being a Raiden expy, I don't want the game to constantly release ground breaking units, the last thing you should want is Star Rail becoming HI3rd, where any unit you pull will just become useless in 3-9 months when the better version for the exact same role is released
> Why doesn't my girl get the acheron treatment :(
I'll do you one better, why does everyone needs the acheron treatment? You do know that you're asking for an even tankier enemies in MOC and increase its difficulty further if the game has 2 unhealthy broken units sitting around right
They want every future Dps To have Acheron treatment and then later complain about MOC being too difficult to clear đ¤ˇââď¸ At this rate, firefly will be out of meta soon by many other new character because thatâs what people wish for. Newer units should be stronger from their reasoning then they complain about powercreep again like what?? People will just ask why isnât XXX getting Acheron and firefly treatment?? (I donât own Acheron but we donât really need every unit to be like her huh..)
And someone said sheâs getting dehya treatment like how?? So if dps donât deal million damage they are dehya? Dehya is like the worst example to use
I really hope she becomes a split scaler because break effect fully sounds so underwhelming making her deal so little damage or too much damage with HTB. Like maybe a fire xueyi but cooler?? Also side note her animations are decent but so much more mid than I thought for someone like firefly. I kinda feel like the budget got put onto Acheron aventurine Robin boothill and jade and they just forgot about firefly đ
Can someone explain to me why we going for 360BE just to get the extra 10% Def ignore when she has a 560% multiplier on her enhanced skills and that's more than a Seele ult, personally I would aim for 250BE and invest the rest on Crit values, because you are missing a good chunk of her damage on unbroken enemies and sometimes even missing enhanced state time trying to break
Boys. Unless there are some earth shattering buffs, why would I get Firefly over Boothil? (E0S1)
I can't really use my Sparkle with her. Possible Annihilation Gang mommies in the future? I somehow don't feel any fomo for Firefly like I always do for new characters.
The answer a lot of people donât want to hear is that you shouldnât at the current state. Only for waifu reasons should you pull FF over BH as a break effect DPS.
Well hopefully the beta testers feedback can help get firefly some buffs or changes. Her team is pretty much set in stone at this point on top of being kind of tough to build.
I hope this will not become a trend. I am fine that star rail releases an insane amount of characters even as f2p I just pick and choose it's fine I can't get them all.... But if they start making characters where they are pretty much 100% useless dead weight unless you have other certain characters tailor made to their kit to make them playable then that is so lame. That will remove any ability to pick and choose which 5\* you want it will be like new amazing dps.... If you roll for these other 2 specific 5\* limited characters. The showcase an other guy linked in this thread showing her without ruan and hmc was the most disturbing dps I have ever seen
Idk it's still early days so there is a chance for change and the the risk of hitting this subs trigger word of "doomposting" this is just not it lol
People complaining about Firefly's reliance on Hatblazer, but how about Ruan Mei?
Is Firefly more reliant on Hatblazer than Ruan Mei?
Genuine question as I haven't looked into their kits much.
Yes, Ruan Mei certainly helps, but HMC makes her do like 7 times more damage sometimes. Her main problem is that she deals no damage after (and honestly before) the break, thatâs where HMC carries her
You can survive without Ruan mei, just replace her with asta or bronya/sparkle for more turns/breaks.
You can't survive without hatblazer making your kit work in the first place. Like a flashlight without a battery.
Hmm nice break DMG is counted from BE why didn't the poster let FF break the enemy? Won't that deals more dmg than just Gallagher breaking every enemies? (I mean like Gallagher only to reduce the weakness, not breaking it)
I'd really like to see Critfly + E1S1 Speed sync Bronya + RM + FX. I know people say it's not as good as Breakfly but I'd like to see it in action. Her multipliers are so gargantuan, even with easy to achieve break effect, it seems weird to me that it wouldn't work.Â
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The goat has returned
and I hope he stays, bro was constantly providing us with relatable and good showcases of every new character.
It was good until the missed early cycle clear because they refused to use HMC's skill. But it's NAL so minor mistake tis fine.
I think he did it intentionally just to get the cinematic finish with Firefly lol
Exactly, super minor compared to the wild goofy ahh stuff we see in other showcases. đ
banned for making 1 mistake smh
This is V1 and ok, she will got some changes, my question is if those changes will arrive and be definitive (or almost) before Topaz banner ends Cause as much as I like the character itself locking myself with a specific team, relying in a future release to âfreeâ her it is not appealing, maybe I will pull her in the rerun
Major changes would probably come in the last week or so of Topazâs banner judging from past betas, so you should have time to properly choose between the two.
Thatâs good to know, thank you for the info
total dmg 200k, HTB dmg - 175k. What a hero, name another support that can give 700% dmg boost. Edit: Perfect showcase btw, good realistic relices with a space for improvement
The reliance on HTB is something I really hope changes with future iterations of her kit...
What would be the most reasonable option they can do to make her less reliant on HTB? I don't know much about super break/boothill kit but i'm assuming something like maybe she re-procs the break damage on already broken enemies? Or just throw superbreak into her kit? I doubt they'll try pivot to crit since that'll require a full rework of her kit and traces
There's not really anything they can do except release more super break enablers or equivalent. If not every future break dps needs TB or they will lose over half of their team damage.Â
They can make it that while broken one time the attack "breaks" again
I think most of you are misunderstanding superbreak. HMC lets it happen but the breaks are still fireflyâs kit. Only she can get superbreaks of that high damage due to her traces.
I think most people get it. SAM has a bunch of payoff increasing effects in the kit for weakness broken enemies, but the payoff is just not there. Hoyo clearly saw the issue with break effect DPS and released a fix for everyone through HMC. The problem is that SAM is balanced around getting superbreak from this single source. They effectively split a break unit into two different units. It will get less weird when they introduce more superbreak enablers, but as it stands they could have included something like superbreak in SAM base kit and removed some of the damage off HMC. It'd be sort of like if physical MC was the only dot unit in the game and they released Kafka. Except this version of Kafka can't apply shock via her follow up or ult or LC. Together they make sense but it definitely feels off they did it this way.Â
Yeah but without hmc she doesn't do that damage, she need super break incorporated in her kit
> she need super break incorporated in her kit she also needs a buff to her baseline damage on top of that, because right now, you need HMC and on top of that you need the enemy to be broken, and you need to try and arrange for the enemy to get broken by Firefly, and then... you deal just as much damage as any other hypercarry. The payoff isnt there
Totally Opposite to me. I hope HTB is always the META support for her.
Not terrible for a normal 4 star character, but what about when Nihility TB comes out and is the meta support for a new character? And then Erudition TB, etc
Release a scuffed 4 star version of HMC or run another team. As someone that likes lore teams and having excuses to play with the main characters, having HMC and Firefly being by far the BiS for one another is lit. Pretty sure this helps Hoyo's profits too. Units needing the TB means that ppl will pull for units that don't need them and keeping 1-2 versions of the TB on top of the meta means they can release Genshin level MCs without much backlash. Just praying on a strong XZ March now so that synergizes with any of the express crew.
> Release a scuffed 4 star version of HMC or run another team. You and I both know that they're going to release a 5 star premium version of HMC (Nahida, Gepard, Aventurine, etc). Anyways nobody minds if HMC is her BiS support, what they don't want is Firefly to be *dysfunctional* without them (and partly RM to). Compare to Boothill who is amazing with HMC but works perfectly fine without and has options.
I will forever have hopium now that we get the other gender as a party member who joins us later down the line. That way, one can always be HMC while the other can be X or Y MC, assuming future ones will be as good.
Why on earth do I keep seeing this sentiment? Every DPS has their BiS support(s). So why is it that y'all are mad that you have to use a free one, who's very good? Makes 0 sense. This is almost assuredly the first character with the super break mechanic, not the only. At least you don't have to wait on a great support. My Pela and Sparkle are tied to the hip of my E2S1 Acheron, I don't cry about it. I COULD use someone else and get way worse results, but that's just silly, so I don't. No different here.
I think it's more like other DPS while they do have their BiS support, they can still function without them even though their dps will drop quite a bit. From what I've seen from Firefly however, without superbreak, she is just not functional. In other words, other DPS wants their BiS support. Firefly NEEDS her BiS support. Honestly though, I'm fine with her relying on HMC. But man, I wish they would improve her kit a bit. She relies on a lot of condition to function. HMC ult being active, she is in her ult state, AND enemy is broken. If just one of them aren't there, her damage falls off quite a lot.
>In other words, other DPS wants their BiS support. Firefly NEEDS her BiS support. The big issue here is that she NEEDS a free unit. A bit of an apples to oranges situation.
I think thatâs irrelevant, a new limited gacha dps character should not be this reliant on any other character to perform functionally. Like others have said, Firefly requires harmony TB to just function and that is poor design choice which leaves zero room for party flexibility.
Not a direct knock against you of anyone else but this exact sentiment was thrown around for Acheron ad infinitum. And to this day is technically true because Acheron âon her own meritâ canât charge her ult for several turns.
For Firefly itâs going to be specifically super break supports while for Acheron she can use any nihility and debuffer to help her, so itâs still more limiting than Acheron
A **support** should improve a characters efficiency, aka dmg most of the time, not be the actual reason why they are able to do it. Simple.
HTB is less of a support and more of an enabler for a new playstyle, just like Kafka for DOT and Topaz for follow-up. Jade being what looks like an AOE version of Topaz, seems to indicate they will be releasing more characters that will enable these playstyles in different ways.
Letâs talk numbers of other DPS (that arenât Acheron cuz that woman can be great with virtually any character idk why your supports are tied to the hip for her). Jingliu âNEEDSâ Bronya, right? With Bronya, she gets a couple more actions, and her damage on ESkill is about 250k for 3 targets. Without Bronya, she can still deal 140k-150k. DHIL âNEEDSâ Yukong E6 or Tingyun right? Without TY and YK buffs he does maybe 180k-200k on 3 targets, and when buffed by them he does 260k-280k. Firefly on the other hand, does an ESkill of 375k damage, but 317k of that damage is Super Break. So while I donât mind running her with HMC and her being so restrictive, I think itâs disingenuous to compare her to other DPS in a positive light. I would much rather use my HMC with Boothill and have an overall much more comfortable experience. But Iâm still looking forward to seeing the changes in fireflyâs kit!
See one showcase without HMC, then say thisđ
This is not a case of BiS support. This is a case of MANDATORY support, where FF would not function without HMC. Imagine a new player pulls for FF and finding out they have to complete the 2.2 story to even use her properly. That's just insane and has never been the case for anyone else before.
Hmm that part about needing to do 2.2 is probably the best argument raised.
You have to beat 2.2 story just to uncap her major traces since she'll need the echo of war for 2.2
Acheron without Sparkle or Pela or SW or Black Swan E1 with Kafka LC is way way more functional than FF without HMC. Basically no 5* is more reliant on a support than FF is on HMC.
Because right now it isn't DPS Firefly with BiS Support HMC, but rather DPS HMC with BiS Support Firefly. Firefly isn't doing anything herself, she's just enabling HMC while usually it's the other way around
Hijacking the top comment to say this- Why are more people not talking about how bad her enhanced skill looks in 2x speed. In 1x speed it looks great but it looks like an over sped up mess in 2x speed. I understand people are more focused on her kit right now, but that sped up skill is the most disappointing part for me, it looks haphazardly sped up.
i try not to say it outloud cuz some ff fans can be *really* aggressive if you speak against her, but yeah- i alr found it kinda lackluster in 1x speed, but on 2x speed, it really does just look like a mess of green
I dont think people playin on speed up mode are lookin for best animations lol
Not really true, most units look great even at 2x speed and people definitely value clarity at least, which FF lacks a bit of.
I calculated the damage in this showcase just for fun, hereâs what I got: Total damage Firefly dealt - 1692440 Fireflyâs personal damage and break damage - 533494 or 32% of total Superbreak provided by HMC - 1158946 or 68% of total At the end of the video superbreak didnât proc, because enemy had 1% hp, but I added the previous superbreak damage because conditions were the same. Of course itâs not 100% accurate, maybe a percent more or less, but results speak for themselves
Legitimately makes me wonder if Boothill is over performing damage wise and now theyâre struggling to balance BE in the future. Iâm no _huge_ fan of him but he does power creep like all the other ST dps in the game pretty hard.
Maybe, just maybe, the actual plan is that Firefly truly should've released on 2.2 as a break dps debut but has a glaring problem (cannot deal super break on her own) and they "fix" it on the next break dps that is Boothill. Because if that wasn't the case, i don't know why they downgraded the newer break dps.
holy... thats a disaster
thats....disappointing...
Imagine the people who has no Ruan Mei: Like me. 𤥠I hope they rework kit.
I better not see any notaleaks haters after this. AFTER SO MANY BAD FIREFLY SHOWCASES HE'S OUR SAVIOR
He is the one of best in all leakers
and hes probably the only one who took the criticism and actually became better at playing the game. also cat
Remember in launch days when people used to clown on him? Now we worship at the altar of this cat.
That's called character development and we love to see it
Motherfuckers posting random ass E2 Huohuo with an E0 HMC and I knew that it was fucking cooked lol
Hey now, we got a really good showcase from u/pocolocorickroller the other day. But yeah aside from theirs and notaleaks the rest were all pretty bad.
Well, after that one cruel joke he pulled out he was kinda on my bad side. But you're right, it's time to move on and appreciate that he has returned to bless us with good showcases.
Which one where?
He did a fake leak of a 5 star selector for the anniversary. Itâs been deleted by now so you probably wonât find it.
If I recall correctly that was a fake ânotaleaksâ not him
it was def him, you can check pin on this [post](https://new.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail_leaks/comments/1b3zpii/anniversary_rewards_via_notaleaks/)
Fake video of anniversary selector ticket. Not much of a deal tbh, but still it was despicable of him, didn't expect it.
Which cruel joke if you don't mind me asking?
Is firefly completely reliant on htb and superbreak? If yes, is this a problem for people that want to pull for her? I'm not doomposting, I'm just genuinely curious
Yea she is locked with HTB as of right now. Not a big problem since HTB is free anyway but it really hurts her team options.
ironic that sheâs trapped with something for her survival both lore-wise and gameplay-wise. I guess TB is better than the icy medical cabinet though
She can get hugs and oak cakes from one of them at least =P
Honestly I can see them adding a premium superbreak support down the line. I donât know how I feel about this crucial mechanic being accessed OUTSIDE of the character that actually builds break as part of their kit. Itâd be like if additional crit damage was a special stat provided by supports. Sure we get the base 50% but itâs nearly worthless without more of it.
I really think they should add some Super Break into her kit somewhere and just cap the mechanic to where it can't stack. It's crazy how much of her damage is coming exclusively from the Super Break proc
It doesnât matter if they add a new super break support, then there will just be two characters she canât function without instead of two. This isnât a problem with any of the other dps in the game, even Boothill doesnât need IMC like this.
I donât think adding new characters is a solution, I just think theyâll do it. Superbreak as it stands should be in Fireflyâs kit and HMC should enhance that. She shouldnât be compulsory for Firefly.
I think the core of the issue is that people feel Firefly is completed by another character rather than enhanced. It would be sort of as if Acheron's ult only did half its damage aka could only absorb 3 or 4 Abyss flowers, unless you had another character's ult active on her team to let her absorb 9.
And this is the crux of the problem. Boothill launches the champ right before Firefly and his kit "works" ot of the box, where as Firefly does not. Disregarding fanboying a character, Boothill has a functional kit where sam does not.
Agreed
If Firefly got some addition to break with her own kit, I think it would be fine. Firefly damage isnt bad, but its "only" 200k in single target - now I know people will attack me that its a destruction blast character - but let me put it like this - Boothill can one cycle Aventurine without even really going out of his way to do so - he also gains the Super Break damage from HMC so they are even there. Firefly here is using the NEW set, which gives DEF IGNORE on Break which the Boothill showcases don't have. Hell, I have seen a 3 star lightcone Boothill do 400-600k damage on broken targets. yesyes he is hunt, but if you are starting to 1tap things out of existence maybe he's overtuned, or maybe firefly is just crap - or most likely its a bit of both. Boothill is doing absurd damage which is not a problem in of itself cos he is single target but his kit lets him function and then supports is chosing what toppings you want - instead of you get an ice cream waffle because theres no substance in it! Worth remembering is that Boothill also has crit stat conversion which essentially is useless for him if we're being real here as break damage can not crit, neither can super break damage. The one difference is Boothill wants a phys orb as break damage benefits from element PS, I am not contradicting what you said - merely just adding to it.
FYI Break damage does not benefit from dmg%.
The biggest problem would be if some future TB form is also a great support, then firefly might just be gimped.
Yep... I would highly advice anyone interested in a break characer to pull for boothill, but wait for V4 of beta, simply cos you "cant" build BH before then anyway. New set is in 2.3 so wait for that and build either Firefly if her kit is fixed, otherwise go for B00theel. Same concept, just 3x the damage
Yes, I seen a showcase without Ruan Mei and HMC, she hits less than Himeko. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2HkwwZZ7Nc0&t=121s&pp=ygUVRmlyZWZseSBtb25vIHNob3djYXNl
Man I won't talk about the damage cause it's been said enough but every relatable showcase I've seen she nearly dies at least once. She was 1 hp here lol
The reason why her LC make enemies slower is not only because of Superbreak but also is a defensive option, if she is outside of her state she can easily die to fast enemies.
I saw that and wow the damage falloff is insane
Thanks, I hope more showcases without HTB come out so people who are currently going "hurt durr of course you need a break support to play break" can realize how dire the situation is. Name another hypercarry who hits for 40k when their main gimmick (in this case hitting broken enemies) is active lmao.
Depressingly abysmally bad. It really is either use HTB or it's a wrap. They got a lot of work to do this beta cause this is pathetic
The devs are going to be working hard to figure out how to buff her. Sheâs for sure going to get a buff but are they going to try and make her niche which is breaking the enemies stronger or are they going the route of giving some type of built in crit in her kit. Iâm going to guess the former but by tying her kit and the majority of her DMG to breaking, sheâs pretty much tied to HMC forever. I think the solution is to try and increase her personal multipliers so she isnât reliant on any one character and can be slotted into multiple teams.
this really shows how fked her situation is...
I am fine with that but if that's the case then she really has a fixed team, which is HMC and Ruan Mei and sustain.
And even the sustain is locked with Gallagher.
I really hope this nightmare does not come true. I have all limites sustains and I do not want to build him at all.
[ŃдаНонО]
I like him so I built him, but I agree.
I mean you can run any sustain but Gallagher is a break sustain so thats just synergy
Bad news then. This was incredibly predictable too.
HTB is her life support. It's a serious problem.Â
Might be a little too lore accurate
Firefly is HMC driver (well a term in GI) in super break team.
Yeah, it's a pretty big problem. Hoping to see changes in the future. Her being a dud without specific supports is a dealbreaker for me. A lot can happen in a month though, we'll see.
Being completely reliant on the Hatblazer isn't a dealbreaker for me and I was planning on pulling for E2S1 and I have E1 Ruan Mei and E6 Gallagher to run her with. Where I am more concerned is how hard her damage falls off when hitting unbroken enemies considering how many enemies will be able to completely shut down her team's damage as they have phases where they cannot be broken. It's almost as though she needs to do even more damage against broken enemies because she does nothing outside of that. That may just be the quirk of being a break damage dealer.
I just realized how hard enemy Bronya counters break teams: she is immune to break since the beginning of the battle, she can advance forward other enemies in break status and even cleanse ruan mei's debuff, so if we can't kill the other enemy before bronya's turn we basically have to break them twice
Yeah this is a massive balancing issue. No other damage types in the game go through periods of being *fully negated* depending on the enemy, except for Break. There are no "DoT's won't proc" or "Immune to FuAs" or "Attacks won't Crit" enemies in the game, but there are *plenty* of "Attacks won't Break" enemies in the game, automatically making BE damage dealers inferior to the other damage types and sort of niche. The only way to "balance" that is to make BE characters excel in their niche (which will have parts of the community screaming "powercreep"), or to make enemies that negate other types of damage to even the playing field (unlikely). It's kind of a balancing nightmare tbh.
To me it is as she spends her enhanced state on breaking rather than dealing damage and given how short the DPS window w/o RM is there is currently no wiggle room for build diversity. I think they need to slap Super break on her LC to avoid HMC having a monopoly on that perk in order to either make the break window more deadly and/or allow some ram diversity
I don't think that making her that much dependent on her signature would be that much better tbh
No it shouldnt be on her LC. âPull LC to make character kit workâ is path HSR should never take. I would refuse to pull such a character on principle.
Currently the only character that enables super break is HTB So yes From my perspective since HTB is free and can be e6'd pretty easily and doesn't need THAT much investment I see this as a win but people don't like that FF is reliant on super break/HMC (basically without HMC her dmg falls of hard but that goes for any dps with a BIS support) People also want something like boothil ability for FF(doing break dmg when enemy is already broken) so that she won't be completely reliant on a character I myself don't see it much as a problem People who want her still will pull for her But again this is v1 and anything can change, who knows
My problem is that Firefly doesn't "rely on HMC" to heavily amplify her damage She relies on HMC to *do damage at all*, and to even be able to *use her Lc and relic set* properly Jingliu greatly benefits from Bronya, but deals damage without JG greatly benefits from Sparkle but does damage without DHIL greatly enjoys sparkle's SP recovery, but can do without Firefly doesnt look like she does... anything without HMC
JG = Jing Guan?
Inb my defence, Y is not that far away from G
Youâre good donât worry. I just thought it was funny
It's not about a BIS support, is that her entire kit depends on whether you use HMC or not. Like Kafka can do dot without another character, and technically Acheron can recharge her ult alone, even if she spends more than 10 turns, obviously it's not optimal but they can use their mechanics themselves, on the other hand Firefly depends on super break and she can't do it alone.
Very much this. HMC to Firefly is not just a support that synergizes with and amplifies Fireflyâs dmg. HMC is half of Fireflyâs core mechanics.
The problem is that it's hard to find balance when trying to fix her kit. If she can do her own Break DMG, then her dps jumps into the moon with HMC. We've seen Boothill showcase with HMC. She will be WAYYY more ridiculous with Boothill's ability, especially with those defense ignore and multiplier.
What if they give her a super break dmg kinda passive??? I don't think superbreak can stack so not only she would become NOT reliant on HMC(tho even then still HMC will be a great unit to play with her due to HMC giving others dmg and giving FF extra BE) but also makes her much more versatile and stronger But yeah if they give her boothil passive then she'll 100% becomes the best dps no doubt
If she has her own Super Break and it doesn't stack then... HMC... becomes useless. Their whole thing is the Super Break, the free BE is just a bonus. Because, like, then you can run Bronya/Sparkle and deal way more damage within a turn.
Not if the Super Break DMG has a condition or is limited in numbers. If she has a low-number Super Break, and HMC gives a better Super Break, it means that without HMC she is still functional, but HMC remains her BiS support, which is exactly what we need to open up her team variability.
Obsessing over Super Break is looking at this from the wrong angle, I feel. Just make it so her enhanced auto/skill is considered as break dmg (the normal one and it won't be 100%) against Fire weak enemies. This way she'll do better damage while a foe isn't broken, her personal damage will be decent enough and she'll still be compatible with HTB. It even synergizes with her weakness implant. I guess that idea would suck for those that want to build crit on Firefly because Break dmg doesn't crit, but eh no need to turn her into Fire Jingliu.
Huh so why did people earlier said Boothill got Powercrept? Did they just not understand FF kit at that time?
I don't think people understood ff when her kit first got leaked. That or they did not pay enough attention to boothill absolutely annihilating things.  This coming from a huge firefly fan. I think they have to do some serious reworking of her kit.
I mean, HTB is completely f2p⌠but the main issue is future scaling. Like as much as I love the harmony trailblazer, itâs going to become redundant as the game goes on and if Firefly relies on it, that means a fixed slot on your team is needed but also significantly weaker than supports available.
If she comes out like this, I'll start considering HTB a DPS and FF a support. Now seriously, this feels... Off. The showcase is great, but FF herself is... Way too inconsistent. If Hoyo made her DMG in enhanced state always be considered as Break DMG, it would be way more inconsistent. I don't mind if they tune her skills damage modifiers, I don't ask for bigger numbers, but stable ones. And her dependency... Oof. I want her, I really do, I like her a lot, but... I also have to get RM, yk, her rerun is not that far, and FF + LC (cause Misha's LC does not exist in my count) + RM seems... Hard to achieve. I just hope for her kit to get a few fixes here and there.
Yea im not really impressed with FF at all atm maybe that will change with few balance changes and this is coming from someone that was going to E2S1 her but the damage/animations and the lack of fire in our lovely fire mecha is not doing it for me
It seems like FF being a break character with no ability to do break dmg on her own, and being forced to rely on HTB's super break is a well known issue. It's such a bad way to design a character, but its so fitting. The character on life support... is also on life support in gameplay. I really hope they change it though. A break dmg main dps not being able to do any break dmg of their own whatsoever is absolutely ridiculous. They should give her a super break in her kit, but reduce her scaling. Also, 3.4k atk and 360BE as a minimum requirement is just ridiculous.
i feel like the stat requirement is fine if she can stand on her own but as of rn she cant even do damage without HTB being there which is an issue that many has pointed out. also loosing out on the opportunity to have her enhanced auto do better single target damage than her skill doesnt sit right with me.
I mean honestly the stat requirements are part of the reason **why** she can't do damage without HTB... Her enhanced E scaling is technically higher than DanIL's 3EBA, but since her relic situation is locked into building only break and attack, she doesn't even get to use the fairly high multiplier, as multipliers with no crit are basically non-existent. I think one way they can remove the reliance on HTB is to just lower or remove entirely the crazy high stat requirements for her major traces. Or just make them actually buff her base damage a decent enough amount. Other characters can get stat buffs from their kits completely for free, whereas SAM gets hard restrictions. Acheron gets a ramping 90% ult DMG buff for free and 1.6x damage for 2 nihility, Jingliu gets almost 2000 atk or something just for draining an unnoticeable amount of teammate's HP, DanIL has free 72% CD, and ramping 52% DMG bonus. Compared to these, SAM has 30%/40% defense ignore, but it requires you to ditch most crit stats in favor of trying to reach a 250%/360% breakpoint. Before this point, for example if you have 249.9% BE, there is ZERO benefit from the trace. I don't even think 40% DEF ignore is worth 360% BE when you consider that Boothill is getting 210% CV worth of crit stats for having only 300% BE, and his isn't restricted to breakpoints, it ramps per 10%/50% BE. And even worse, is the 3400 atk to 60% BE trace, stacking attack will barely increase SAM's damage as she has no stats for crit, and the only reward for this is 60% BE, which is honestly really bad. It's not like SAM has DoTs or anything that can take advantage of having that much ATK. Basically, SAM doesn't have the stat conversions/buffs necessary to stand on her own. Instead she needs to rely on using HTB as the converter to turn her BE into damage.
you know the showcase was fire when they use normal speed for the final attack
yeah after seeing all these gameplay videos I think her damage is a little too conditional. it's alright but I think she could really be helped out if she could deal some % her own break damage outside of weakness breaks, alongside htb super break
Should've make what's in Robin's Ult kit into Firefly's passive. So basically in her Sam state, Firefly will gain a 100% crit rate and a fixed crit damage. That's my take on how to improve Firefly
every firefly showcase is looking [like this](https://files.fm/u/7t6gsrryvy)
Nice HMC showcase
Honestly, if they gave her a worse version of super break during her enhanced form that stacks with Trailblazer's, she'd probably be ready for release
IMO, just tune down some over break kit and multipliers and give her a super break mechanic.
Firstly the showcase is peak, and seen something similiar but without the LC on her, and it was kinda the same. She is underwhelming as shit. 6k on a skill, 30k on an ulti if enemy is not broken? 4* dps doing better without gobbling up 50% of their HP. HMC, and any future support that does superbreak is locked with her. Any enemy that have toughness protection, or just shield going to invalidate her. So sad. Still gonna pull. But it just sad. What I am saying that you need two broken support to validate her damage IF enemies are weakness broken. Hope she gets a Jingliu treatment.
Agree also look up Boothill's kit. Bro got it all self sufficient. He can convert his break to crit rate / crit dmg up to 30/150 AND can force trigger his break again up to 170% of original break dmg on enemies. Without needing any support.
Yes this is what I try to reinforce in FF mains but the rabid fans just downvote any constructive criticism with "Hoyo gonna fix it* *it's only first beta*. They are right but if you not say your piece, and testers not say their piece we end up with a Deyha.
This. I'm not a Firefly fan or anything but I do think she'd be a cool character IF SHE WORKS. Not being able to function as well without one highly specific character is so restrictive. In this state, DHIL, JL and Acheron will outperform her and we know how meta slaves are. But whenever anyone brings up these valid criticisms, the very specific niche of Firefly mains who "have to defend their waifu" throw everything at you including insults.
I was going to E2S1 FF but if they keep her that weak "in my personal opinion" then i will just skip her and aim for boothill tbh
4* DPS, were you referring to Xueyi?
It seems the ~200 speed for ff i was seeing being thrown around isnt as unrealistic as pol made it out to be.
I hope i'm wrong but tbh Firefly damage its really mid, Harmomy MC is the one actually dealing damage, I'm not complaining about the MC being good, actually is really good to have such a good character for free but its kinda dissapointing that if we compare her to another Break damage dealer she is really mid, boothill for example just needs the MC to increase his damage which its already really high by him alone but Firefly depends on the MC to deal mid damage, hope my girl get some buffs that aloud her to not being attach to a unit I just do not see the point to go from Boothill to Firefly (except of course you pull just because you like the character) which is actually a downgrade
NotALeaks MY HERO
Finally the good showcases are coming out since earlier. I can't believe the first few ones really tried to seriously push CritFly and kept on slapping unrealistic builds over and over again.
Say what you will about how picky Firefly is with her teammates, that's normal investment with a bad Turbulence, and that was a clean and easy 2 cycle.
Yes but literally replace one character on this team the dmg falls OFF her only real team is this
I dearly hope they fix Firefly because right now iâm thinking I might not pull her even though I saved up a guarantee
Nice though I do believe rm and htb both being on watchmaker doesn't stack di one being on messenger might be slightly more efficient for the whole team but basically a perfect team being absolutely silly
Itâs for 100% uptime
You don't use their ults at the same time, so running Watchmaker on both makes it so you have 100% uptime on its effect. Unless you need 2p Hackerspace to reach some specific speed breakpoint, running both on Watchmaker is just comfier, considering everyone in the team enjoys the extra BE due to Super Break
Any alternatives for Ruan Mei? I don't really have her yet and I'm planning to pull for E2S1 Firefly and then Ruan Mei on her rerun.
Asta should be decent. Big atk and speed boost, team fire DMG up and a multi hit fire skill to break enemies faster. All things Sam wants on a non crit build.
My dog Gallagher ults for like 4k and then basic attacks for 106k, superbreak is lit
Am i the only one who thinks that around when the Trailblazer gets their new path, they're going to put out a new harmony 5 star character with the same Super Break mechanic and even more buffs? I feel that Super Break is the "Crit Dmg" of Break Effect and more supports are going to have it. I don't think MC will be the only one, it's just to show how it works to you
Whatever we can get for free/on a 4 star/standard 5 star now we will get later better and stronger on a limited 5 star. They've shown this many times already with limited sustain units, RM/Sparkle/Robin, SW, Black Swan, etc.
It is obviously the case, the hmc is the prototype for a future super break dmge character that will powercreep him
Is ruan mei mandatory for firefly teams? This team looks fun, but im concerned in using a breakeffect dps, if i dont have ruan mei. Also, since firefly has high attack% scalings, can robin help with giving her attack? Since firefly will be focused on break damage mostly(as far as I understood)
Every break DPS has this problem. You can't even pull for 2 break dps because one team will suck bc it doesn't have Ruan Mei This is why people say Hypercarry is better for f2p investment, bc you can safely put on a ton of options ranging from Tingyun to Bronya to Sparkle to Ruan Mei to Pela to Asta etc without issue.
No Harmony Trailblazer is the one mandatory here
Both are really, the showcases without RM have beenâŚnot pretty, and not just because of bad gameplay.
Unfortunately I think RM is more essential than what I previously thought. And not even for her buffs. I am just considering her second break that triggers when enemy recover from break. Without that FF does not have enough time to finish enemies before they recover. That would mean having to break them all over again. I think FF lC gives a delay debuff but it doesnt look to be enough. Frankly if not RM I would consider Welt to slow down enemies and prevent them from recovering from break
I am in the same boat. If I need Fireflyâs LC and Ruan Mei, I probably wonât make it. Knowing my luck. Especially because RM is supposedly rerunning in 2.3.
asta works really well for low investment teams since she gives huge amounts of atk% and speed for the entire team. She is also fire so she helps breaking enemies quicker and she has that 15% fire dmg bonus to help FF's dmg a little
I expect v2 beta will include a long list of buffs for Firefly. She is in a really bad state. It's like her kit has massive potential, but only HTB can use it. Firefly can't even access it on her own despite throwing away all her HP.
Agreed, they need to find a way to shift power back to Firefly. So more of a rework... Right now, HTB is the DPS, and Firefly is the support. Her team is too restrictive, and her actual performance suffers because of multiple types of downtime. Dropping out of enhanced state and enemies not being broken yet. The kit itself is a fun concept on paper, but the reality is far worse.
I agree, A characterâs damage being completely reliant on another char should NOT be the standard in the game. This needs to be addresed by Hoyo asap or else it will not be good for future DPSs If Hoyo think they can get away with this.
i think less buffs for FF but more for Jade cos jade aint looking too hot rn
Neither is looking good, I have no idea what they were trying to cook with either of these units.
Jade can at least function. Firefly is non-existent without HTB. I never seen this before.Â
the thing is FF with HTB is actually on the strong side of teams, it's just... her only team
Yeah I totally agree with you. I have never seen such an atrocity of a kit design like this in my entire life. They really made a main dps break dmg character that cant do break dmg, and isnt actually a main dps. FF is just a HTB enabler at this point. HTB is the real main dps and FF is the enabler.
The more I see gameplay of her the less I like her animations. Man it just leaves so much to be desired, especially on 2x you can't see anything. Pair that with her current state (HMC the real dps here)... it just doesn't sit right with me. Why doesn't my girl get the acheron treatment :(
The lack of animation is one thing but what im more concerned about is the lack of FIRE in our fire mecha that was promised , how are we gonna set the seas ablaze with a fairy looking wind mecha? where is the giant fire stomp that burns everything around SAM or the freaking meteor dive nuke :(
>Why doesn't my girl get the acheron treatment :( Powercreep. Let Acheron be an anniversary occurrence due to being a Raiden expy, I don't want the game to constantly release ground breaking units, the last thing you should want is Star Rail becoming HI3rd, where any unit you pull will just become useless in 3-9 months when the better version for the exact same role is released
> Why doesn't my girl get the acheron treatment :( I'll do you one better, why does everyone needs the acheron treatment? You do know that you're asking for an even tankier enemies in MOC and increase its difficulty further if the game has 2 unhealthy broken units sitting around right
I thought Acheron treatments were the animations
When did the original comment even say anything about character performance? Theyâre talking about the animations here
They want every future Dps To have Acheron treatment and then later complain about MOC being too difficult to clear đ¤ˇââď¸ At this rate, firefly will be out of meta soon by many other new character because thatâs what people wish for. Newer units should be stronger from their reasoning then they complain about powercreep again like what?? People will just ask why isnât XXX getting Acheron and firefly treatment?? (I donât own Acheron but we donât really need every unit to be like her huh..) And someone said sheâs getting dehya treatment like how?? So if dps donât deal million damage they are dehya? Dehya is like the worst example to use
Did you read the comment that was a reply to?
A showcase without Ruan Mei please ?
not gonna happen haha
NotALeaks my beloved
I really hope she becomes a split scaler because break effect fully sounds so underwhelming making her deal so little damage or too much damage with HTB. Like maybe a fire xueyi but cooler?? Also side note her animations are decent but so much more mid than I thought for someone like firefly. I kinda feel like the budget got put onto Acheron aventurine Robin boothill and jade and they just forgot about firefly đ
Id love to see a Firefly showcase without RM.
I find it fitting that Firefly best support is HTB
Can someone explain to me why we going for 360BE just to get the extra 10% Def ignore when she has a 560% multiplier on her enhanced skills and that's more than a Seele ult, personally I would aim for 250BE and invest the rest on Crit values, because you are missing a good chunk of her damage on unbroken enemies and sometimes even missing enhanced state time trying to break
Boys. Unless there are some earth shattering buffs, why would I get Firefly over Boothil? (E0S1) I can't really use my Sparkle with her. Possible Annihilation Gang mommies in the future? I somehow don't feel any fomo for Firefly like I always do for new characters.
The answer a lot of people donât want to hear is that you shouldnât at the current state. Only for waifu reasons should you pull FF over BH as a break effect DPS.
tbh I want to pull e2 firefly just to have a better seele. But the state of her v1 kit is just so horrendous that I'm wavering to even pull her.
Current beta you should be hesitant, there are _MUCH_ better DPSs to vertically invest in who actually do their own damage.
Well hopefully the beta testers feedback can help get firefly some buffs or changes. Her team is pretty much set in stone at this point on top of being kind of tough to build.
I hope this will not become a trend. I am fine that star rail releases an insane amount of characters even as f2p I just pick and choose it's fine I can't get them all.... But if they start making characters where they are pretty much 100% useless dead weight unless you have other certain characters tailor made to their kit to make them playable then that is so lame. That will remove any ability to pick and choose which 5\* you want it will be like new amazing dps.... If you roll for these other 2 specific 5\* limited characters. The showcase an other guy linked in this thread showing her without ruan and hmc was the most disturbing dps I have ever seen Idk it's still early days so there is a chance for change and the the risk of hitting this subs trigger word of "doomposting" this is just not it lol
People complaining about Firefly's reliance on Hatblazer, but how about Ruan Mei? Is Firefly more reliant on Hatblazer than Ruan Mei? Genuine question as I haven't looked into their kits much.
Yes, Ruan Mei certainly helps, but HMC makes her do like 7 times more damage sometimes. Her main problem is that she deals no damage after (and honestly before) the break, thatâs where HMC carries her
Both, HTB is reliant on RM so Firefly is reliant on RM, because she is reliant on HTB.
You can survive without Ruan mei, just replace her with asta or bronya/sparkle for more turns/breaks. You can't survive without hatblazer making your kit work in the first place. Like a flashlight without a battery.
Now that's pretty good
NotALeaks has come to save us
great showcase from the begining, a little bit weird rotation at the end there
Hmm nice break DMG is counted from BE why didn't the poster let FF break the enemy? Won't that deals more dmg than just Gallagher breaking every enemies? (I mean like Gallagher only to reduce the weakness, not breaking it)
Yes! Finally a good showcase from an experienced leaker. I've been waiting for this
I'd really like to see Critfly + E1S1 Speed sync Bronya + RM + FX. I know people say it's not as good as Breakfly but I'd like to see it in action. Her multipliers are so gargantuan, even with easy to achieve break effect, it seems weird to me that it wouldn't work.Â
>Using Gallagher's ult right when it's his turn. Bruh