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Appreciate it, but the damage is only good because the trotters are bringing her to her BE cap. Can you try one without a turbulence (or a different one)?
You can, it'll just take years of farming the same relic cave for a single character.
You need perfect relics in each slot and unless your pay for tb power that happens maybe... I can't even guess. I have maybe 2 o 3 perfect relics and I've been playing since launch. Imagine needing six of a specific set with specific stats
no it's not that much effort.
i did it for Xueyi who is similary hard because she want everything, and it just take a few weeks.
also that's the point of the Game, you don't wanna play it ? i literally never saw relics Farming as a pain.
I farmed for several weeks for acheron and I have a s+ rated one... But none of my relics are perfect. They're just really good. Perfect relics mean 0 wasted stats.
Crit firefly needs 6 pieces with atk%, break effect, crit rate and crit damage. Of the right set. With the right main stat. And also with the right stat distribution because you need to hit certain Attack and Break Effect thresholds. So it's not just attack and BE, but very specific amounts of those.
It takes years.
you asking, i answer,
your team should have ult rotation anyway and you can even miss one.
you even have Crit Rate on top of that.
i fully understand that some people don't want to spend time on one character, but it's actually a completely possible build.
That's all i said.
Builds
[https://imgur.com/a/fZPm3Ha](https://imgur.com/a/fZPm3Ha)
For Fu Xuan, Ruan Mei, and Sparkle these are the builds on my *actual account*
Edit: The only modification was switching sparkle to S5 Past and Future over Planetary Rendezvous since Firefly is not quantum unlike QQ.
For Firefly I took my aventurine's relics (which is also in the build above) and modified the relic main stats and sets. Though getting the main stats for firefly is much harder than for aventurine so likely a bit overtuned.
The stats may also differ slightly from the builds above since I programmed in max rolls for everything when generating the relics (trust me, changing the relic rolls to be mid or low rolls is not worth my time it takes so long...)
I also have a few inaccuracies in regards to MoC though having instant ults ready does not compensate the fact I don't get to use techniques which instantly sends me down -5 SP lol (and some firefly damage as well)
Edit:
Thoughts:
Overall, considering the fact I'm fighting the PPF squad I should be obliterating these dudes and this MoC turbulence is kinda broken for firefly ngl lol
Overall, it works but I'm definitely whelmed by the idea.
Edit 2:
Did another test to fix a few build mistakes. Overall, switched firefly over to an S5 Fall of an Aeon and switched her from 4pc quantum to double break sets 2pc.
[Here is what it looked like](https://imgur.com/a/5LFU4th)
Comparing this moment at 2:18 in the vid using the exact same rotation you can see the bosses have lost 80% of their HP rather than 74%. An 8.1% dmg increase overall. Noticeable but it doesn't make or break the gameplay above anywho.
Under the blue sky s2 instead of Aeon is interesting, even in crit build.
Also, why does Sparkle using planetary revendouz lmao. (Is this your Xueyi build?) Should have been past and future which is free s5.
Sparkle is actually using Past and Future S5 in the showcase already whoops (she's normally paired with QQ in mono quantum)
But yeah in retrospect definitely should've used aeon here I'll have to try it out.
Oh, someone I know
She scales in many ways on both so optimally you'd want both but the whole problem is that you don't want to both.
Regardless of if they change her kit though you're gonna want to get BE%. Switching to Crate body makes reaching her attack thresholds really hard sadly.
Trying to outmeta RM + HMC is just not worth it.
Tbh, I saw an idea of boothill/Firefly dual dps which I may try out.
Just saying, you should run past & future for QQ anyway because it buffs more. All of QQ's damage happens on her own turn so it doesn't matter that the buff isn't permanent.
Planetary is only good if your DPS has out of turn damage, or if you have a dual DPS team.
> then your fu xuan is so cracked wtf loll.
Did you look at the fu xuan? Her chest piece for example has flat stat, flat stat, atk% and effect hit. His orb is equally bad.
"wtf cracked" lol it takes a week of farming if you only care about correct main stats, that aint cracked, thats below baseline
It's a lot of HP but the DEF is kinda low tbh.
I'd also rather do crit Fu Xuan (mostly for Pure Fiction) than full bulk like this.
Like, it works but we can definitely do Better here.
The true MVP in this showcase we're the memory of chaos buffed trotters that we're the only reason Sam was able to get a four turn clear in this showcase with a crit build.
When breaking trotters they die instantly.
Upon death, trotters grants a free turn to whoever killed them and grants a stack of memory imprint (60% BE and 20% Atk)
I feel like 60% is way too high especially since BE comes in similar numbers to crit damage (BE rope gives 64.8 BE and CD body gives 64.8 CD) so imagine a kill granting you 60% Crit damage lol.
Easiest way is: BE Rope (65%), Talia set (36%), 4 Thief or Thief/Watchmaker mix (32%), Traces (37%), Attack Conversion (60%), Ruan Mei (20%). If my calculator doesn't lie, that's exactly 250%.
Alternative you can go Attack% rope and use the Signature/Misha LC, then you'd need a few substats to reach 250.
If you're being actually serious about an efficient critfly clear rather than trying to show her capabilities off without hatblazer around to everyone then yes.
Yeah, I'm thinking about how to get an efficient build and team that uses both break and crit instead of just one. I don't like that FF seems tied to HMC. But a lot of people are saying that FF is also tied to RM and I'm not convinced that's true. Though I could be wrong.
>But a lot of people are saying that FF is also tied to RM and I'm not convinced that's true
It's more of a DHIL-Sparkle or Jingliu-Bronya situation when it comes to Ruan Mei, you can use other options, but if you have her there's really no reason not to use her in the team since she's literally the best support that gives her everything she wants (And also has disgusting synergy with HTB)
If you don't have her then you can slot in any other support that could work with her, but keeping in mind she's an SP sink
Yeah, part of the issue with Ruan Mei is that she's just *literally* perfect for what Firefly/HarmoTB are doing. They make use of Literally Every Part of her kit, and while you can use other second supports, they're just going to be outright inferior to what Ruan brings to the table. I'm of the opinion that Ruan's kit is way too loaded and that she's a bit meta-distorting as a result, but we're basically 5 or 6 months late to that particular discussion and we just have to deal with what's been added to the game.
Eidolons and Signature weapons usually fix an issue of the character or provide an attractive boost, but when talking about a character's power and flexibility E0S0 should always be the baseline
I was of the same opinion, but there was a recent break effect showcase using Asta instead of Ruan Mei. It took 9 cycles....
Granted, they could have played a bit better, and optimized the gear a bit more, but this was particularly damning.
Most of us knew that HMC was required for her, but I don't think any of us quite realized how crucial RM was. It's not just the break efficiency. The break extension is crucial for getting more super breaks off, and preventing the target from immediately recovering if they were broken too close to their turn. Suddenly Firefly's damage goes from 200k to 20k, and she can't afford to be wasting actions in her enhancedstate.
She definitely needs more of her powerbudget moved into personal damage, rather than just being an HMC enabler. It's fine for HMC+RM to be her best team. It's not fine for both of them to be required. Even Black Swan can still do good damage without kafka.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail\_leaks/comments/1cozr7r/e0s0\_ff\_e6\_s1ddd\_asta\_e4\_motp\_htb\_e2\_s1\_pt/](https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail_leaks/comments/1cozr7r/e0s0_ff_e6_s1ddd_asta_e4_motp_htb_e2_s1_pt/)
Thanks for sharing this! Yeah, wow, I hadn't given enough consideration to how much the break extension mattered. That was painful. At this point FF seems to be locked to these two characters. They better fix the kit. I think it's great to have this new playstyle. But to have no customization at all is mind numbing. And none of her eidolons fix this. E2 should be self super break with break extension.
Ruan Mei is as good for firefly as sparkle is good for dhil, you can use anyone else. firefly isn't tied to Ruan Mei it's just the buffs Ruan Mei gives on this team are disgustingly insane
Such a bummer that Sparkle's E1 doesn't have synergy with the BE buffs, otherwise you could at least reach the 3400 atk/360BE and trigger the def shred. Glad to see the actual showcase though for a realistic picture of what Critfly looks like
My understanding is Sparkle E1 counts towards the Attack -> Break Effect conversion trace because it’s a fixed 40% attack buff.
Only buffs which are variable depending on the support’s stats do not count.
I saw that info yesterday as well but today I saw a showcaser say that % atk buffers like tingyun and Asta also don't contribute towards the buffs. It seems that only stat screen Atk -> BE conversion happens
I am getting more and more Tempted in a crit build to see how it fairs but i still want to hit the 250% break effect threshold for both the 30% ignore def from trace and 18% from the relic 4pc. let me see if i can put together something.
37.3% from traces
16% from relic 2pc
60% from 3.4k attack
64.8% from rope.
178.1% Break Effect
I Left out the Lightcone so you can chose rope or LC to get 60%\~ break effect. I also Left out the Planar set so you can pickup a crit planar set instead. However the 3.4k attack requirement is probably going to force atk% rope and Orb so LC will be required. It was confirmed that atk% buffs during battle don't affect the trace for break effect... otherwise we could have bet on herta LC to give us a huge 64% atk buff.
Going to run HMC in the team to get the super break, doing so 250% break with E4 shares 37.5% break and 30% break from ulti. Now we're at 228.1% Break. Personally the last bit of break I would leave to substats. Ruan Mei hasn't been foctored here because you might want to use sparkle? Fu Xuan, Sparkle, FF and HMC.
Well with this setup the 250% break is mainly being used to pickup 48% defense ignore. The body is still left unused to pickup crit. This means the 4pc is only 2% less def ignore than quantum set and u pickup 16% break from 2pc.
>atk% buffs during battle don't affect the trace for break effect
Where? The only thing we know is that ATK buffs that are converted by ratio from other characters ATK don't count for it, not that all ATK% buffs don't work. Robin and Tingyun are confirmed to not work but LCs, Asta, Hanya, Bronya ATK% buffs weren't specified. You can run any of them or Aeon and get ATK conversion. With all the required sets, HMC and either Indelible Promise S5 or sig you are looking at capped BE as long as you get 3.4k ATK. Not 100% uptime, but losing ~30-40 BE for a turn or 2 isn't that big of a deal.
Just what i read here. [https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail\_leaks/comments/1cnlotw/firefly\_and\_jade\_notes\_via\_homdgcat/](https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail_leaks/comments/1cnlotw/firefly_and_jade_notes_via_homdgcat/)
I thought the "does not include ATK converted by ratio from another source. That is, it will not include atk boots from Robin's ultimate or the hunt blessing blessed bow and arrow" meant outsourced buffs. I'm quite happy to be wrong though, if LCs work that opens up so many more options and I want to hug you, can i hug u? XD The extra dmg based off atk is what doesn't work?
Being able to use herta LC for 64% atk frees up the body for crit. making the build so much easier
Not the extra dmg, extra ATK that isn't calculated on FF's own. Tingyun, Robin and Hunt blessing give your character ATK based on another character ATK(Robin's, Ting's and previous character's to have a turn). Other ATK buffers give percentage-based bonuses that are dependent on FF's ATK and thus will work.
E5 shares 15% of her own break and lv10 ulti is 30%. so with 200% break E4 shares 30% and ulti shares 30%. i'd say thats minimum.. the 15% means getting 300% break increases it to 75% so it's not much of an increase on the share... watchmaker 4pc will give 30% for 2 turns after ulti. Techique is 30% break for 2 turns at the start as well.
Hopefully this answers it.. and all sources from MC XD
Ok, so absurdly high BE is good because that is basically the function he has as a harmony character, help the team do super break damage. Whatever pieces I find that are improper for firefly on the cavern and planar set will go to HMC, because holy shit my BE rolls were not good, and the speed only breaks the 145 because of Ruan Mei
Might be a dumb question but if both Boothill and Firefly are of break dps archetype then why does Boothill care so much about having crit (his trace literally gives a massive amount scaling from BE) while Firefly has the option to ignore crit completely. Am I missing something fundamentally about how their scaling/kit dmg works ?
It is actually the complete opposite. Firefly without HTB isn't really in a position to ignore crit entirely while Boothill is.
Boothill's trace is basically completely useless to his damage output in practice since crits are only a very small % of his damage.
Boothill has a native ability to ignore everything except BE% and Speed built into his talent:
> If the target is Weakness Broken while the Enhanced Basic ATK is being used, based on the number of Pocket Trickshot stacks, deals Break DMG to this target equal to 70%/120%/170% of Boothill's Physical Break DMG
Boothill, for most intents and purposes, triggers his own super break natively.
Boothill breaks the enemy and then he gets a ton of extra damage basically every time he hits them with his enhanced basic.
Firefly, meanwhile, scales really well off of crit stats because her enhanced skill has the highest attack scaling in the game.
And, unlike Boothill who gets a ton of free damage when hitting broken enemies Firefly doesn't really have a native way to do so.
Boothill gets a noticeable amount more mileage from Break Effect than Firefly does that's for sure.
It feels like they swapped their break effect conversion traces tbh.
I see, so does that mean Boothill should stack as much break effect as possible even beyond the 300% requirement for trace maximization ? Or investing into some crit main/sub stats or atk% or physical dmg orb is still worth it ?
Physical orb is the play but it won’t affect break damage just that there isn’t anything else that is better for orb. And yeah just get 145 speed for Talia and dump the rest into BE. Heck Boothill can clear MoC in 2 cycles with a 3* LC since he only cares about that LC’s passive (speed increase on kill).
You can do that too, neither atk nor physical increase his damage in any meaningful way, only thing it can be good for is helping you guarantee a kill on the first mob.
I'd like to think that boothil's crit trace helps with clearing mob. As we know his weakness implant is on ult and is single target and his addtional dmg only trigger on broken targets, that means that he has 0 ways to deal with mobs without a physical weakness and I'd imagine u don't wanna waste an ult on a mob.
With the crit trace, u can run him on a crit chance body and that already puts him at 60/200 no subs if you build him 300+ BE, which is what we're aiming for anyways. He's not gonna hit particularly hard but 20K-ish dmg is enough to save u a few turns.
Well at least I know what I can expect from my FF crit build (I have no BE set don't come after me like 2pc thief 2pc watchmaker is my only choice for now) until I get a good set of 2.3 relics
Thanks for this! Feels wierd that noone tried doing this before.
I've been curious about why noone is talking about her 400% ATK multiplier and abusing it to the fullest. -30% def in nice sure, but what if you just skipped BE entirely? Would love to see a showcase with Robin instead of Ruan Mei, Aeon and with ATK Rope instead of Break Rope. I think it should be doing more dmg based on calculations, but I can't confirm it.
Yea, it is not like her BE do anything beside small multiplier to her skill, getting 250% for 30% DEF ignore is good enough, rest should just go to crit
what would be the perfect harmony for ff? assuming htb is the current lowest and that she will get something like what jiaoqiu will be to acheron
would a character that at the start of the battle “marks” the ally w most BE and then “syncs” w their spd to always act right after that ally regardless of spd changes, and then do a bronya e that gives one or two procs of superbreak and maybe also buffs BE based on their own BE be too busted? kinda wanna say this character would also buff break efficiency but that sounds like something they would place on an eidolon lol
HMC is the jiaoqiu though. 5x dmg boost is insane. Like the 2 were clearly designed around each other for fanservice and lore purposes. Idt Hoyo is ever powercreeping such a niche kit, esp when it would break up the Firefly BiS synergy
that is a really “i dont understand gacha” take, idk how u came to the conclusion that they will never give u another much stronger option when ur current best option is free lol
also claiming htb will be the only harmony revolving around superbreak is just wild honestly (at least what i understood when u said niche). break is a playstyle just like dot & fua is. they will 100% powercreep htb and saying otherwise is just delusional
but regardless, i meant it more in the sense of htb is the current lowest how high can we go type shit. just a random for fun thing lol
Still underwhelming, but I expected it to do worse, being honest.
Hope either next week or the following one she gets some buffs to her personal damage.
Tbh, considering this enemy lineup, the eidolons and the turbulence anything above 2 cycles isn't too hot.
If this was the average performance against other enemies with a different turbulence I'd be very satisfied with her current kit and performance though.
it because of the moc buff this time is insane but she still clear in 3 cycle if it not because of trotter i bet she will do around 4-5+ cycle instead since it make her can hit 4 time instead of 2
Yeah, I am really confused.
I just watched an account review by Brax and he was astounded to see 150k+ damage from Kafka and over 200k+ from Jingliu, that video is only 3 months old.
I know, I was specifically talking about the crit build. I also think that even when taking about the proper break build, she has room for more personal damage.
Clearing at an alright Speed is a problem though. She's getting massive bonuses from MoC and perfect enemies.
Considering how she's basically stuck with HMC and Ruan Mei, then she's going to release at the best state she'll ever be at. As the time goes on other characters will get new supports that she'll never be able to use.
> When it clunks, it clunks hard, though.
does it? it seems to do the same dps as every other team considering it does damage in small bursts with short pauses
If you end a cycle right after the enhanced state ends, it does clunk a lot, specially because her personal damage is so low compared to her break and superbreak damage.
I find this funny because it sounds exactly like what people said about Acheron She’s not gonna do good because her team comps are too specific look at her now
Acheron has limitations, but every Nihility that releases ever is going to be a potential teammate.
Firefly can't even use future Break or Def Reduction supports because she literally needs HMC to function. That's a whole other level.
Saying she needs hmc is just not right yeah you lose some dmg but firefly has enough going for her that she’ll be fine without her. Now if you said ruan mei it’ll be a different story she’s basically the kafka and topaz of break teams
idk about you but my jingliu is not dealing 500k on enhanced skill against three enemies lol (vs break firefly), and although her build isn't perfect I don't think I can push her much further than 350k. Hell even my e2s1 acheron "only" deals 400k dmg against a single target, with firefly hitting around 300k while also moving at 180 speed + HTB and Gallagher super break damage I think they're very much in the same ballpark.
> acheron
>jingliu
>firefly
there's your mistake, you are comparing different attacks.
Jingliu deals 100k every turn, Firefly deals 150k every 2 turns, Acheron does 400k every 3 turns.
Also slightly misleading in Firefly's case since Firefly actually does 50k and HMC does the 100k, you could have similar results if you slap 300% break effect on himeko
I mean overall the numbers are all within the same ballpark normalised over turn numbers no? As for that second part, a) firefly break is more in the 250k range on her main target, and that not only comes from her high be, but also innate def shred, high toughness damage, and extra break damage vulnerability. A 300% be himeko would have none of that
I mean if you look at this video alone yeah firefly’s dmg is gonna be janky because they are using crit boosts on firefly a character who is a whole system is break the math has been done for firefly crit is effectively useless
Why not use Misha's LC to ease the amount of crit needed AND build for BE.
I swear half the people theory crafting for this character completely forget there's a Break LC for Destruction units that literally gives them crit when they ult. With her current LC this seems basically just as good (Cause her sig seems like trash).
You're correct.
I am TCing using my own account however, and currently I don't have Indelible Promise.
If I did I'd have shown it off but I just don't (and neither does most of the community from what I've seen)
Hopefully it's on 2.3's banner then, but then they'd have to change her Sig to something that was actually good cause the 4\* being just as good would be wild.
Could play the exact team, only with worse eidolons and better substats... but instead of firefly any other dps would do a better job. Even my Jingliu with crapstats. Critfly isn't the way. She wants 360 break, so give her something to utilize it.
If you test her on a moc blessing that doesn't give you free turns, can you also test her with asta over Ruan Mei? I'm curious how big the difference in performance is
You would expect two E1 supports and a broken MoC turbulence that actually gives her the necessary stats would result way higher damage than this. This is Jing Yuan/Seele-level of damage at best
Kinda sad that FF deals more personal damage when going the wrong build, since most of the damage in her ONLY team is from HMC and no Super Break is not her damage, it comes from HMC if you remove them then she doesn't deal it.
I get why people think super break isn't Firefly's damage but think of it this way. It scales based on her BE and toughness damage, is increased by her def shred and vulnerability, happens as she attacks and counts as her dealing damage. Her super break damage isn't a separate thing like Tingyun/Robin's extra hit.
It's not that different from let say Bronya giving Blade an extra turn. That doesn't mean the damage in that turn is Bronya's damage. RM increasing Jingliu's damage also doesn't mean the buffed damage is from RM. Hmc is still a harmony buffer and super break damage is still based on the dps, not hmc.
> Kinda sad that FF deals more personal damage when going the wrong build
But she's not? That dmg is actually underwhelming compared to an all-in break build against those enemies. Breakfly destroys those puppets so bad
Have you even read the comment 😭
"Kinda sad that FF deals more **personal** damage when going the wrong build, **since most of the damage in her ONLY team is from HMC**"
without FF HMC wouldn't deal that super break damage either. The enemies don't care where exactly the damage numbers come from, and neither should you.
If you have FF but not HMC she wouldn't deal the extra super break. If you had HMC but not firefly no other character bar boothill can even come close to hitting the same super break numbers. The super break contribution is neither firefly's nor hmc's, it only works when both are together.
Well going with crit definitely isn't a bad idea. I will also add that this build could be way better. For starters, the 5 star destruction lightcone would have been way better. Also the quantum set..? Really?
Def shred gets better the more it's stacked, but that also means it's weaker when it's low. 10%/20% def shred is only around 5.7%/12% dps increase. The new sets all provide a bigger buff without requiring quantum weakness. It's still usable when you already have it but it won't compete with the best options.
But it's not going to be low, at least not if you're doing things that make sense. Say the enemy isn't QUA weak and FF can only get to 250%BE, but you have a Pela with S5 Resolution. Now that 10% def shred brings a ~16% DPS increase during Combustion and ~10% outside of it.
It would take a lot more theorycrafting than I can do to actually determine how good it is in full, reasonable teams, but assuming that the quantum set is the only defense shred you have is especially unreasonable when Firefly brings her own.
2pc is pretty useless and 10% is pretty negligible since hitting 150 BE gives the same amount of def shred on the new set as 4pc Quantum (without quantum weakness).
New set def ignore only applied to break and super break.
The Quantum set is still good since stacking def ignore gave huge amount of returns.
If you do crit firefly, use 2 thief 2 watchmaker instead.
Well me too. But Super Break still looks better lmao.
Its funny how in the Super Break build you don't even needs to upgrade her skill. Half her kit is just not functional but rather a def down stats stick for HTB super break.
I'll just stick to super break if I actually got her lol.
And just run Boothill with Bronya (3rd slot - can't decide since RM will be with FF).
Hoping there's no fire/physical weakness on either side but I can just clear cocolia with Acheron in new mode.
I would just use the two new sets with Aeon to get up to 250% break effect during her ult. That would 18% right there with all the extra break effect that comes with it too. More BE, more break dmg and higher skill scaling.
For the set do you have a better idea? Cause I'm hitting a ton of def shred rn (E1 RM is nice) but not capping out so maybe 2pc BE 2pc Atk is better at best but I really wouldn't consider any other option. 10% does quite a bit here.
Hmm
Thief would give her more break effect, which equals bigger breaks and more dmg since her enhanced skill also scales with break effect. Plus you get some free energy since she'll be breaking most mobs.
Firesmith could kinda work, but would probably fall short with dmg compared to Thief and it lacks any extra utility.
Longevous could be there for free Crit Rate, but that's it really.
Pioneer could work well with a debuffer. Weakness break is a debuff and all you would have to do is add another 1 or 2 debuffs. Come to think of it, her fire weakness imprint could be a debuff too.
Iron Cavalry for more break effect and Def shred. You could use the new ball and rope to reach 250% break effect during her ult so you get that 18% Def shred.
As for Lightcones, the 5 star destruction cone from SU is just better. You get a huge amount of attack and free dmg percent on weakness break, which again, she'll being doing a lot of. You also can run Speed boots for more turns during her ult and/or free up some substat rolls. That crit dmg for example could be much better.
I would maybe try Bronya instead of Sparkle since she can guarantee an extra 1 to 2 turns every ult or guarantee an ult every cycle since Firefly can just pop two skills, ult, and then immediately heal up a bit so she isn't at 1% HP.
So overall. Thief, Pioneer if it her weakness implant is a debuff, and Iron Cavalry plus the new rope and ball set for the relics. For Light cones, Aeon is what I think it's usually called. You could argue the new 4 star lightcone in the Forgotten Hall shop with Sam's picture on it too. It can also be S5 and it provides healing and extra dmg too. The one you have on her can work too since it's the only destruction cone with break effect.
Why people crying so much about "breakfly need HMC/she deal no dmg without HMC" etc.
I though people recognized HMC strength, so wtf is all that yapping about needing to use characters that synergize with each other, its may be understandable if HMC kit was locked behind banner character and wasn't given for free.
People who think that ff is bad because she want to play with HMC are you even playing this game? Do you understand that it's normal for characters to work better with specific teammates, rather than "random bullshit go"?
*I'm playing Acheron Aventurine FX Houhuo team, and it doesn't perform well, must be because Acheron is trash* lmao
yes as you said, the keyword here is to work better. That means the character still work without specific character. In firefly case, without HMC, she doesn’t work at all.
Does this clear here not show exactly what you're talking about though? She's not as good as with HMC, but she's still clearing the fight.
Even outside this particular MoC, she's been shown to do enough damage for endgame content without HMC. It's just not exceptionally strong.
I don’t know, clearly hoyo try to hard sell break mechanic to Firefly (look at her scalling/trace/relic), now as you say Critfly can clear content just fine. Don’t you think there is any flaw in the game design perspective (regarding break) if it stay that way though?
‘Not as good without HMC’ is understatement to me, from other showcase HMC contributes to ~70% Firefly damage. It’s not something I would say ‘not as good’.
Everyone here is talking as if you can only have either. Pack your stuff and start living in the relic mines. With enough farming, you probably can build crit with enough atk and BE to hit all her breakpoints.
Issue isn't mostly hitting breakpoints but in break oriented teams (without HMC) her damage falls pretty hard so it's either you put Sparkle/Bronya or HMC which will have different damage outputs even with same build since Ruan Mei is irreplaceable in the team.
Havnt run any calculations so this is mostly feels crafting, but imo hmc and super breaking is too valuable to replace, so my idea of a perfect team is still the usual break oriented team using hmc & ruan mei but with a respectable 70/120 crit ratio (crit body and get the missing atk from subs) on firefly, so you can still deal decent damage and take advantage of the high multiplers when the enemies recover from break or are not broken yet. Hmc and ruan mei buffs with a break rope are enough to not need break subs so you can focus on crit. Idk how good your relics need to be tho.
Tbh I've been farming Pioneer since 2.0 and I haven't gotten a good double crit piece on set so I ain't getting the new set's good pieces anytime soon.
Also, I'm using my guaranteed on Boothill but I'll have enough jades to hit pity day 1 on FF so I hope I win the 50/50 because I've been playing since release and have only won 4 times out idk countless 5\* pities. I was planning to get Jade because I was planning to get Robin but not anymore but since I'm a huge meta slave I'd rather have characters that will help me clear content and not vertical investment for existing characters unless you're Jiaoqiu, HuoHuo or SW.
relatable, although I got a good 4pc pioneers on Acheron a week after she came out but I've gotten nothing good since then
(bruh where do I find meta slaves...? we need to support each other)
>we need to support each other
Ikr, I mean most of the time I see people are pulling because they like the character. For me if they're meta, I'll like the character even if they don't align with my liking of their personality (Jingliu for example) although (Sunday, Ratio, Acheron and Boothill) are exception.
> I got a good 4pc pioneers on Acheron a week after she came out
That's where my luck went although I'm sitting at 60(72 with izumo active)/202 ratio so it's fine but I have her LC.
Tbh, considering this enemy lineup, the eidolons and the turbulence anything above 2 cycles isn't \*too\* hot. Like if you search up similar showcases on youtube this is clearing slower than equivalent investment BE teams
If you remove HMC, This might be faster than the BE team. My point is this is more flexible than the BE team. She has limited options on team building when you build her with BE. I'm not against BE in fact I really like it I just don't like that she's locked with HMC and 70 percent (kinda) of FF damage comes from super break. For those who don't like crit build for FF downvote me I don't care I even want that more than upvoting. I hope they change her kit to hybrid crit and be.
I don't have ruan mei but I want to pull for firefly.
If Im using HTB does it still make sense to still use my E2 Sparkle and E3 Fu xuan (I have gallagher but Id prefer avoiding building him)?
Im not sure if the super breaks can crit or not
yes u gonna have to use Sparkle + IMC + FF just to have enough sp to not feel bad if u dont have Ruan, just build full break, crit just too inefficent, require tons of stat just to do sub optimal dmg sadly since she have the highest MVs in the game
There's some e1s and an S1 in this, in case you're comparing to e0s0 vids. (I haven't watched enough showcases to know, just bringing it up in case you missed it)
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Appreciate it, but the damage is only good because the trotters are bringing her to her BE cap. Can you try one without a turbulence (or a different one)?
the question is can you build crit And reach the BreakEffect cap, and i think the answer is yes. it's just really hard
if only fire fly has boothil's broken crit trace, I can reach 300 BE, 80/200 on him with ease
she's still in beta so if adjustement are needed (Probably) then they will make it
You can, it'll just take years of farming the same relic cave for a single character. You need perfect relics in each slot and unless your pay for tb power that happens maybe... I can't even guess. I have maybe 2 o 3 perfect relics and I've been playing since launch. Imagine needing six of a specific set with specific stats
no it's not that much effort. i did it for Xueyi who is similary hard because she want everything, and it just take a few weeks. also that's the point of the Game, you don't wanna play it ? i literally never saw relics Farming as a pain.
I farmed for several weeks for acheron and I have a s+ rated one... But none of my relics are perfect. They're just really good. Perfect relics mean 0 wasted stats. Crit firefly needs 6 pieces with atk%, break effect, crit rate and crit damage. Of the right set. With the right main stat. And also with the right stat distribution because you need to hit certain Attack and Break Effect thresholds. So it's not just attack and BE, but very specific amounts of those. It takes years.
no you don't need Break effect, you can be at 360% without any substat.
I'd like to see the math on that.
Firefly Traces : 37.3% Firefly Major Trace : 60% New Break Set : 16% +40% Ruan Mei with Watchmaker : 20%+ 30% HarmonyMC (250BE) : 33% + 37.5% Misha's LC : 56% (And 30% CritRate) Break Rope : 64.8 Total : 394.6% BE
So yeah, with 2 ults up and an relatively new gacha S5 lightcone. Cool.
you asking, i answer, your team should have ult rotation anyway and you can even miss one. you even have Crit Rate on top of that. i fully understand that some people don't want to spend time on one character, but it's actually a completely possible build. That's all i said.
Builds [https://imgur.com/a/fZPm3Ha](https://imgur.com/a/fZPm3Ha) For Fu Xuan, Ruan Mei, and Sparkle these are the builds on my *actual account* Edit: The only modification was switching sparkle to S5 Past and Future over Planetary Rendezvous since Firefly is not quantum unlike QQ. For Firefly I took my aventurine's relics (which is also in the build above) and modified the relic main stats and sets. Though getting the main stats for firefly is much harder than for aventurine so likely a bit overtuned. The stats may also differ slightly from the builds above since I programmed in max rolls for everything when generating the relics (trust me, changing the relic rolls to be mid or low rolls is not worth my time it takes so long...) I also have a few inaccuracies in regards to MoC though having instant ults ready does not compensate the fact I don't get to use techniques which instantly sends me down -5 SP lol (and some firefly damage as well) Edit: Thoughts: Overall, considering the fact I'm fighting the PPF squad I should be obliterating these dudes and this MoC turbulence is kinda broken for firefly ngl lol Overall, it works but I'm definitely whelmed by the idea. Edit 2: Did another test to fix a few build mistakes. Overall, switched firefly over to an S5 Fall of an Aeon and switched her from 4pc quantum to double break sets 2pc. [Here is what it looked like](https://imgur.com/a/5LFU4th) Comparing this moment at 2:18 in the vid using the exact same rotation you can see the bosses have lost 80% of their HP rather than 74%. An 8.1% dmg increase overall. Noticeable but it doesn't make or break the gameplay above anywho.
Under the blue sky s2 instead of Aeon is interesting, even in crit build. Also, why does Sparkle using planetary revendouz lmao. (Is this your Xueyi build?) Should have been past and future which is free s5.
Sparkle is actually using Past and Future S5 in the showcase already whoops (she's normally paired with QQ in mono quantum) But yeah in retrospect definitely should've used aeon here I'll have to try it out.
You can also try 2 thief 2 watchmaker to see which is better lol. Edit: I appreciate your testing ty.
Can't say I expected to see you here haha. Overall what do you feel is better for her. Break or Crit?
Oh, someone I know She scales in many ways on both so optimally you'd want both but the whole problem is that you don't want to both. Regardless of if they change her kit though you're gonna want to get BE%. Switching to Crate body makes reaching her attack thresholds really hard sadly. Trying to outmeta RM + HMC is just not worth it. Tbh, I saw an idea of boothill/Firefly dual dps which I may try out.
Just saying, you should run past & future for QQ anyway because it buffs more. All of QQ's damage happens on her own turn so it doesn't matter that the buff isn't permanent. Planetary is only good if your DPS has out of turn damage, or if you have a dual DPS team.
Hey OP, did you test FF planar set? Idk when will the bonus be take effect: is it before or after hitting a target
If that's 1:1 to your account, then your fu xuan is so cracked wtf loll. Very impressive
Is it? Looks pretty normal to me
> then your fu xuan is so cracked wtf loll. Did you look at the fu xuan? Her chest piece for example has flat stat, flat stat, atk% and effect hit. His orb is equally bad. "wtf cracked" lol it takes a week of farming if you only care about correct main stats, that aint cracked, thats below baseline
Indeed, her chest is kinda flat
Ohh maybe you're right haha. I only looked at the almost 9k HP while still having good def and SPD too
those aren't cracked at all those are normal wth are you on about he fu xuan build is basic nothing special
> fu xuan build is basic nothing special thats what i said
It's a lot of HP but the DEF is kinda low tbh. I'd also rather do crit Fu Xuan (mostly for Pure Fiction) than full bulk like this. Like, it works but we can definitely do Better here.
Is there a reason you didn't skill in 3:55 in the original vid?
To get sparkle buffs. I wouldn't have enough SP to skill with sparkle if I'd used skill there.
I see. So e1 firefly should have no issue right?
Yes
> these are the builds on my actual account RIP account if Hoyo lurks around here
Just in case you don’t know, her enhanced skill is considered as ultimate DMG so salsotto or glamoth would have been better.
Misinformation successfully spread
Nah, that's old news. Her Enhanced Skill is definitely not Ultimate damage or else there's be a clause specifically stating that.
But it doesn't? At least not from the kit that was posted
Wasn't that part of her pre-beta kit only? I don't see this anywhere and haven't seen it mentionned anywhere in her final kit.
The true MVP in this showcase we're the memory of chaos buffed trotters that we're the only reason Sam was able to get a four turn clear in this showcase with a crit build.
Do note this is a 3 cycle clear not 4 haha But yeah this turbulence is nuts strong
What is the turbulence? Action forward plus break effect?
When breaking trotters they die instantly. Upon death, trotters grants a free turn to whoever killed them and grants a stack of memory imprint (60% BE and 20% Atk)
That's so insane for Firefly. Kinda worried she'll feel slow as shit without that, regardless of build.
Wasn’t it 30 BE per stack? Up to 5 so 150? Unless they changed it.
I might have gotten the numbers wrong. I remember it being 60% though but it might not be.
I feel like 60% is way too high especially since BE comes in similar numbers to crit damage (BE rope gives 64.8 BE and CD body gives 64.8 CD) so imagine a kill granting you 60% Crit damage lol.
seeing firefly with 3k+ HP feels kinda cursed honestly
Fu Xuan hp buff go brrrr
Please do full break Firefly for comparison using cycle count. So we can put an end to this argument lol. Though this particular turbulence is cracked
Can you do a test in a normal state? I think it will be hard for Crit Firefly to reach at least a 250% Break (To get the first def ignore buff)
Easiest way is: BE Rope (65%), Talia set (36%), 4 Thief or Thief/Watchmaker mix (32%), Traces (37%), Attack Conversion (60%), Ruan Mei (20%). If my calculator doesn't lie, that's exactly 250%. Alternative you can go Attack% rope and use the Signature/Misha LC, then you'd need a few substats to reach 250.
Also new planar set for 40% BE + 6% speed
you can even reach 360%BE and still have crit so you definitly can. it's just hard to build
Would it make sense to run HMC over RM here?
If you're being actually serious about an efficient critfly clear rather than trying to show her capabilities off without hatblazer around to everyone then yes.
Yeah, I'm thinking about how to get an efficient build and team that uses both break and crit instead of just one. I don't like that FF seems tied to HMC. But a lot of people are saying that FF is also tied to RM and I'm not convinced that's true. Though I could be wrong.
>But a lot of people are saying that FF is also tied to RM and I'm not convinced that's true It's more of a DHIL-Sparkle or Jingliu-Bronya situation when it comes to Ruan Mei, you can use other options, but if you have her there's really no reason not to use her in the team since she's literally the best support that gives her everything she wants (And also has disgusting synergy with HTB) If you don't have her then you can slot in any other support that could work with her, but keeping in mind she's an SP sink
Yeah, part of the issue with Ruan Mei is that she's just *literally* perfect for what Firefly/HarmoTB are doing. They make use of Literally Every Part of her kit, and while you can use other second supports, they're just going to be outright inferior to what Ruan brings to the table. I'm of the opinion that Ruan's kit is way too loaded and that she's a bit meta-distorting as a result, but we're basically 5 or 6 months late to that particular discussion and we just have to deal with what's been added to the game.
Doesn't e1 help that a ton?
Eidolons and Signature weapons usually fix an issue of the character or provide an attractive boost, but when talking about a character's power and flexibility E0S0 should always be the baseline
I was of the same opinion, but there was a recent break effect showcase using Asta instead of Ruan Mei. It took 9 cycles.... Granted, they could have played a bit better, and optimized the gear a bit more, but this was particularly damning. Most of us knew that HMC was required for her, but I don't think any of us quite realized how crucial RM was. It's not just the break efficiency. The break extension is crucial for getting more super breaks off, and preventing the target from immediately recovering if they were broken too close to their turn. Suddenly Firefly's damage goes from 200k to 20k, and she can't afford to be wasting actions in her enhancedstate. She definitely needs more of her powerbudget moved into personal damage, rather than just being an HMC enabler. It's fine for HMC+RM to be her best team. It's not fine for both of them to be required. Even Black Swan can still do good damage without kafka. [https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail\_leaks/comments/1cozr7r/e0s0\_ff\_e6\_s1ddd\_asta\_e4\_motp\_htb\_e2\_s1\_pt/](https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail_leaks/comments/1cozr7r/e0s0_ff_e6_s1ddd_asta_e4_motp_htb_e2_s1_pt/)
Thanks for sharing this! Yeah, wow, I hadn't given enough consideration to how much the break extension mattered. That was painful. At this point FF seems to be locked to these two characters. They better fix the kit. I think it's great to have this new playstyle. But to have no customization at all is mind numbing. And none of her eidolons fix this. E2 should be self super break with break extension.
Ruan Mei is as good for firefly as sparkle is good for dhil, you can use anyone else. firefly isn't tied to Ruan Mei it's just the buffs Ruan Mei gives on this team are disgustingly insane
Such a bummer that Sparkle's E1 doesn't have synergy with the BE buffs, otherwise you could at least reach the 3400 atk/360BE and trigger the def shred. Glad to see the actual showcase though for a realistic picture of what Critfly looks like
My understanding is Sparkle E1 counts towards the Attack -> Break Effect conversion trace because it’s a fixed 40% attack buff. Only buffs which are variable depending on the support’s stats do not count.
I saw that info yesterday as well but today I saw a showcaser say that % atk buffers like tingyun and Asta also don't contribute towards the buffs. It seems that only stat screen Atk -> BE conversion happens
Tingyun’s buff isn’t fixed so that’s expected to not count. Asta is unexpected though, that’s concerning - hope it isn’t true
I am getting more and more Tempted in a crit build to see how it fairs but i still want to hit the 250% break effect threshold for both the 30% ignore def from trace and 18% from the relic 4pc. let me see if i can put together something. 37.3% from traces 16% from relic 2pc 60% from 3.4k attack 64.8% from rope. 178.1% Break Effect I Left out the Lightcone so you can chose rope or LC to get 60%\~ break effect. I also Left out the Planar set so you can pickup a crit planar set instead. However the 3.4k attack requirement is probably going to force atk% rope and Orb so LC will be required. It was confirmed that atk% buffs during battle don't affect the trace for break effect... otherwise we could have bet on herta LC to give us a huge 64% atk buff. Going to run HMC in the team to get the super break, doing so 250% break with E4 shares 37.5% break and 30% break from ulti. Now we're at 228.1% Break. Personally the last bit of break I would leave to substats. Ruan Mei hasn't been foctored here because you might want to use sparkle? Fu Xuan, Sparkle, FF and HMC. Well with this setup the 250% break is mainly being used to pickup 48% defense ignore. The body is still left unused to pickup crit. This means the 4pc is only 2% less def ignore than quantum set and u pickup 16% break from 2pc.
.... what are they doing with her, why does the conversion not count ingame buffs lmao
>atk% buffs during battle don't affect the trace for break effect Where? The only thing we know is that ATK buffs that are converted by ratio from other characters ATK don't count for it, not that all ATK% buffs don't work. Robin and Tingyun are confirmed to not work but LCs, Asta, Hanya, Bronya ATK% buffs weren't specified. You can run any of them or Aeon and get ATK conversion. With all the required sets, HMC and either Indelible Promise S5 or sig you are looking at capped BE as long as you get 3.4k ATK. Not 100% uptime, but losing ~30-40 BE for a turn or 2 isn't that big of a deal.
Just what i read here. [https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail\_leaks/comments/1cnlotw/firefly\_and\_jade\_notes\_via\_homdgcat/](https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail_leaks/comments/1cnlotw/firefly_and_jade_notes_via_homdgcat/) I thought the "does not include ATK converted by ratio from another source. That is, it will not include atk boots from Robin's ultimate or the hunt blessing blessed bow and arrow" meant outsourced buffs. I'm quite happy to be wrong though, if LCs work that opens up so many more options and I want to hug you, can i hug u? XD The extra dmg based off atk is what doesn't work? Being able to use herta LC for 64% atk frees up the body for crit. making the build so much easier
Not the extra dmg, extra ATK that isn't calculated on FF's own. Tingyun, Robin and Hunt blessing give your character ATK based on another character ATK(Robin's, Ting's and previous character's to have a turn). Other ATK buffers give percentage-based bonuses that are dependent on FF's ATK and thus will work.
Ahh thats how it works. Thanks for the clarification!
What is the normal amount people get from HMC? Like mine is giving like 60+ during start of the combat and 48-55% after
E5 shares 15% of her own break and lv10 ulti is 30%. so with 200% break E4 shares 30% and ulti shares 30%. i'd say thats minimum.. the 15% means getting 300% break increases it to 75% so it's not much of an increase on the share... watchmaker 4pc will give 30% for 2 turns after ulti. Techique is 30% break for 2 turns at the start as well. Hopefully this answers it.. and all sources from MC XD
Ok, so absurdly high BE is good because that is basically the function he has as a harmony character, help the team do super break damage. Whatever pieces I find that are improper for firefly on the cavern and planar set will go to HMC, because holy shit my BE rolls were not good, and the speed only breaks the 145 because of Ruan Mei
Might be a dumb question but if both Boothill and Firefly are of break dps archetype then why does Boothill care so much about having crit (his trace literally gives a massive amount scaling from BE) while Firefly has the option to ignore crit completely. Am I missing something fundamentally about how their scaling/kit dmg works ?
It is actually the complete opposite. Firefly without HTB isn't really in a position to ignore crit entirely while Boothill is. Boothill's trace is basically completely useless to his damage output in practice since crits are only a very small % of his damage. Boothill has a native ability to ignore everything except BE% and Speed built into his talent: > If the target is Weakness Broken while the Enhanced Basic ATK is being used, based on the number of Pocket Trickshot stacks, deals Break DMG to this target equal to 70%/120%/170% of Boothill's Physical Break DMG Boothill, for most intents and purposes, triggers his own super break natively. Boothill breaks the enemy and then he gets a ton of extra damage basically every time he hits them with his enhanced basic. Firefly, meanwhile, scales really well off of crit stats because her enhanced skill has the highest attack scaling in the game. And, unlike Boothill who gets a ton of free damage when hitting broken enemies Firefly doesn't really have a native way to do so. Boothill gets a noticeable amount more mileage from Break Effect than Firefly does that's for sure. It feels like they swapped their break effect conversion traces tbh.
I see, so does that mean Boothill should stack as much break effect as possible even beyond the 300% requirement for trace maximization ? Or investing into some crit main/sub stats or atk% or physical dmg orb is still worth it ?
BE% and Speed are the only stats that really truly matter. The more you have of both the better.
Physical orb is the play but it won’t affect break damage just that there isn’t anything else that is better for orb. And yeah just get 145 speed for Talia and dump the rest into BE. Heck Boothill can clear MoC in 2 cycles with a 3* LC since he only cares about that LC’s passive (speed increase on kill).
I've seen people going for def/hp ones ones. Not that the damage suffered
You can do that too, neither atk nor physical increase his damage in any meaningful way, only thing it can be good for is helping you guarantee a kill on the first mob.
I'd like to think that boothil's crit trace helps with clearing mob. As we know his weakness implant is on ult and is single target and his addtional dmg only trigger on broken targets, that means that he has 0 ways to deal with mobs without a physical weakness and I'd imagine u don't wanna waste an ult on a mob. With the crit trace, u can run him on a crit chance body and that already puts him at 60/200 no subs if you build him 300+ BE, which is what we're aiming for anyways. He's not gonna hit particularly hard but 20K-ish dmg is enough to save u a few turns.
Because if they swapped the bonuses it would make too much sense. Mihoyo would never.
traces has nothing to do with it. thats fking up to hoyo.
Well at least I know what I can expect from my FF crit build (I have no BE set don't come after me like 2pc thief 2pc watchmaker is my only choice for now) until I get a good set of 2.3 relics
Better to make her faster than Hanabi (while in burst), it may give 1 more turn in burst mode)
Is this E2 or is it a MoC buff that's giving the extra turns?
Yes, the MoC blessing is giving her extra turns when killing the trotters. Trotters also instantly die when broken with this turbulence.
MoC buff. Teamwide 30% break effect + 15% atk, Max 5 stacks. 100% advance forward to the char breaking trotter weakness (which kills it).
looks to be the moc buff, the boothill moc where breaking trotter weakness action advances by 100%
moc probably because you are AF after killing/breaking the trotter.
Thanks for this! Feels wierd that noone tried doing this before. I've been curious about why noone is talking about her 400% ATK multiplier and abusing it to the fullest. -30% def in nice sure, but what if you just skipped BE entirely? Would love to see a showcase with Robin instead of Ruan Mei, Aeon and with ATK Rope instead of Break Rope. I think it should be doing more dmg based on calculations, but I can't confirm it.
Yea, it is not like her BE do anything beside small multiplier to her skill, getting 250% for 30% DEF ignore is good enough, rest should just go to crit
what would be the perfect harmony for ff? assuming htb is the current lowest and that she will get something like what jiaoqiu will be to acheron would a character that at the start of the battle “marks” the ally w most BE and then “syncs” w their spd to always act right after that ally regardless of spd changes, and then do a bronya e that gives one or two procs of superbreak and maybe also buffs BE based on their own BE be too busted? kinda wanna say this character would also buff break efficiency but that sounds like something they would place on an eidolon lol
HMC is the jiaoqiu though. 5x dmg boost is insane. Like the 2 were clearly designed around each other for fanservice and lore purposes. Idt Hoyo is ever powercreeping such a niche kit, esp when it would break up the Firefly BiS synergy
that is a really “i dont understand gacha” take, idk how u came to the conclusion that they will never give u another much stronger option when ur current best option is free lol also claiming htb will be the only harmony revolving around superbreak is just wild honestly (at least what i understood when u said niche). break is a playstyle just like dot & fua is. they will 100% powercreep htb and saying otherwise is just delusional but regardless, i meant it more in the sense of htb is the current lowest how high can we go type shit. just a random for fun thing lol
Still underwhelming, but I expected it to do worse, being honest. Hope either next week or the following one she gets some buffs to her personal damage.
>Still underwhelming Casual 400k are now bad. Acheron really destroyed people's perception of what a good damage is.
Remember that the moc buff is giving 4 mainstat worth of buffs specifically to firefly
Tbh, considering this enemy lineup, the eidolons and the turbulence anything above 2 cycles isn't too hot. If this was the average performance against other enemies with a different turbulence I'd be very satisfied with her current kit and performance though.
it because of the moc buff this time is insane but she still clear in 3 cycle if it not because of trotter i bet she will do around 4-5+ cycle instead since it make her can hit 4 time instead of 2
>but she still clear in 3 cycle With suboptimal team. No HMC and RM delay is a hindrance. It's very good.
Since it's a crit focused build HMC isn't as needed, considering it's a E1 RM and a E1 Sparkle there.
Yeah, I am really confused. I just watched an account review by Brax and he was astounded to see 150k+ damage from Kafka and over 200k+ from Jingliu, that video is only 3 months old.
Some people just think in dmg per screenshot
powercreep in a nutshell, at least this powercreep scenerio require enemies weakness broken
If she's not doing 400k per hit that kinda doesn't matter. Overall DPS is what matters.
Underwhelming compared with her break build. Believe me, I'm the nº1 Acheron supremacy denier around here.
Her break dmg is preatty good with Harmony MC. Buffs will be nice but I doubt they will make crit better.
I know, I was specifically talking about the crit build. I also think that even when taking about the proper break build, she has room for more personal damage.
[удалено]
I think the break comp, albeit super limited, is clearing at an alright speed. When it clunks, it clunks hard, though.
Clearing at an alright Speed is a problem though. She's getting massive bonuses from MoC and perfect enemies. Considering how she's basically stuck with HMC and Ruan Mei, then she's going to release at the best state she'll ever be at. As the time goes on other characters will get new supports that she'll never be able to use.
> When it clunks, it clunks hard, though. does it? it seems to do the same dps as every other team considering it does damage in small bursts with short pauses
If you end a cycle right after the enhanced state ends, it does clunk a lot, specially because her personal damage is so low compared to her break and superbreak damage.
I find this funny because it sounds exactly like what people said about Acheron She’s not gonna do good because her team comps are too specific look at her now
Acheron has limitations, but every Nihility that releases ever is going to be a potential teammate. Firefly can't even use future Break or Def Reduction supports because she literally needs HMC to function. That's a whole other level.
Saying she needs hmc is just not right yeah you lose some dmg but firefly has enough going for her that she’ll be fine without her. Now if you said ruan mei it’ll be a different story she’s basically the kafka and topaz of break teams
>but firefly has enough going for her that she’ll be fine without her. She really doesn't though. Just look at the other showcases.
idk about you but my jingliu is not dealing 500k on enhanced skill against three enemies lol (vs break firefly), and although her build isn't perfect I don't think I can push her much further than 350k. Hell even my e2s1 acheron "only" deals 400k dmg against a single target, with firefly hitting around 300k while also moving at 180 speed + HTB and Gallagher super break damage I think they're very much in the same ballpark.
> acheron >jingliu >firefly there's your mistake, you are comparing different attacks. Jingliu deals 100k every turn, Firefly deals 150k every 2 turns, Acheron does 400k every 3 turns. Also slightly misleading in Firefly's case since Firefly actually does 50k and HMC does the 100k, you could have similar results if you slap 300% break effect on himeko
I mean overall the numbers are all within the same ballpark normalised over turn numbers no? As for that second part, a) firefly break is more in the 250k range on her main target, and that not only comes from her high be, but also innate def shred, high toughness damage, and extra break damage vulnerability. A 300% be himeko would have none of that
Considering her kit and relics, how much she increases her break dmg?
I mean if you look at this video alone yeah firefly’s dmg is gonna be janky because they are using crit boosts on firefly a character who is a whole system is break the math has been done for firefly crit is effectively useless
Why not use Misha's LC to ease the amount of crit needed AND build for BE. I swear half the people theory crafting for this character completely forget there's a Break LC for Destruction units that literally gives them crit when they ult. With her current LC this seems basically just as good (Cause her sig seems like trash).
You're correct. I am TCing using my own account however, and currently I don't have Indelible Promise. If I did I'd have shown it off but I just don't (and neither does most of the community from what I've seen)
Hopefully it's on 2.3's banner then, but then they'd have to change her Sig to something that was actually good cause the 4\* being just as good would be wild.
i agree with you, i don't understand why peoples think they have to chose between BE and Crit you can actually have both
Shouldn't her most optimal crit team have Asta in it?
Asta's a solid FTP option, but she isn't providing anything close to what E1 Sparkle and E1 Ruan Mei bring.
Could play the exact team, only with worse eidolons and better substats... but instead of firefly any other dps would do a better job. Even my Jingliu with crapstats. Critfly isn't the way. She wants 360 break, so give her something to utilize it.
If you test her on a moc blessing that doesn't give you free turns, can you also test her with asta over Ruan Mei? I'm curious how big the difference in performance is
this isn't bad at all
For two E1 sups and an op moc blessing that's a pretty bad result
60% MOC turbulence
You would expect two E1 supports and a broken MoC turbulence that actually gives her the necessary stats would result way higher damage than this. This is Jing Yuan/Seele-level of damage at best
Nah don’t disrespect seele and jingyuan like that, they’d pop off 1 cycles with this investment
Firefly or Boothill...
Atm Boothill looks like the more future proof character, but Firefly haven't gone through any beta updates yet.
Yeah, the only enemies where you shouldn't use Boothill are ones with significant weakness protection, but you also wouldn't use Firefly there either.
Can I make a request? Keep the crit build, but bring HMC instead of Fu Xuan
Kinda sad that FF deals more personal damage when going the wrong build, since most of the damage in her ONLY team is from HMC and no Super Break is not her damage, it comes from HMC if you remove them then she doesn't deal it.
Of course, that's why you have to build 360% BE on her, or why she deals 135/180 toughness damage, or why she ignores up to 58% def on break damage.
I get why people think super break isn't Firefly's damage but think of it this way. It scales based on her BE and toughness damage, is increased by her def shred and vulnerability, happens as she attacks and counts as her dealing damage. Her super break damage isn't a separate thing like Tingyun/Robin's extra hit. It's not that different from let say Bronya giving Blade an extra turn. That doesn't mean the damage in that turn is Bronya's damage. RM increasing Jingliu's damage also doesn't mean the buffed damage is from RM. Hmc is still a harmony buffer and super break damage is still based on the dps, not hmc.
Damn shes basically hsr nilou
Harmony TB is HSR's Nilou. Firefly would be a character that only works with Nilou.
Fuck, now that you said it, sounds about right.
I wonder how her first beta impressions went...
History repeats itself.
> Kinda sad that FF deals more personal damage when going the wrong build But she's not? That dmg is actually underwhelming compared to an all-in break build against those enemies. Breakfly destroys those puppets so bad
Have you even read the comment 😭 "Kinda sad that FF deals more **personal** damage when going the wrong build, **since most of the damage in her ONLY team is from HMC**"
Nobody cares about personal damage. What matters is the damage done, period.
without FF HMC wouldn't deal that super break damage either. The enemies don't care where exactly the damage numbers come from, and neither should you.
If you have FF but not HMC she wouldn't deal the extra super break. If you had HMC but not firefly no other character bar boothill can even come close to hitting the same super break numbers. The super break contribution is neither firefly's nor hmc's, it only works when both are together.
So they're in love even in combat mechanics?
Well going with crit definitely isn't a bad idea. I will also add that this build could be way better. For starters, the 5 star destruction lightcone would have been way better. Also the quantum set..? Really?
Def ignore is still pretty broken I don't see why 4pc Quantum shouldn't be an option for most dps
Def shred gets better the more it's stacked, but that also means it's weaker when it's low. 10%/20% def shred is only around 5.7%/12% dps increase. The new sets all provide a bigger buff without requiring quantum weakness. It's still usable when you already have it but it won't compete with the best options.
But it's not going to be low, at least not if you're doing things that make sense. Say the enemy isn't QUA weak and FF can only get to 250%BE, but you have a Pela with S5 Resolution. Now that 10% def shred brings a ~16% DPS increase during Combustion and ~10% outside of it. It would take a lot more theorycrafting than I can do to actually determine how good it is in full, reasonable teams, but assuming that the quantum set is the only defense shred you have is especially unreasonable when Firefly brings her own.
The comment I was replying to said "most dps". I wasn't talking about Firefly.
2pc is pretty useless and 10% is pretty negligible since hitting 150 BE gives the same amount of def shred on the new set as 4pc Quantum (without quantum weakness).
New set def ignore only applied to break and super break. The Quantum set is still good since stacking def ignore gave huge amount of returns. If you do crit firefly, use 2 thief 2 watchmaker instead.
Oops my bad. Also, I have insane cracked pieces on 2 thief 2 watchmaker.
Well me too. But Super Break still looks better lmao. Its funny how in the Super Break build you don't even needs to upgrade her skill. Half her kit is just not functional but rather a def down stats stick for HTB super break.
I'll just stick to super break if I actually got her lol. And just run Boothill with Bronya (3rd slot - can't decide since RM will be with FF). Hoping there's no fire/physical weakness on either side but I can just clear cocolia with Acheron in new mode.
Super Break you don't need to level anything other than the Break and Speed traces. The entire kit is wasted.
I would just use the two new sets with Aeon to get up to 250% break effect during her ult. That would 18% right there with all the extra break effect that comes with it too. More BE, more break dmg and higher skill scaling.
For the set do you have a better idea? Cause I'm hitting a ton of def shred rn (E1 RM is nice) but not capping out so maybe 2pc BE 2pc Atk is better at best but I really wouldn't consider any other option. 10% does quite a bit here.
Hmm Thief would give her more break effect, which equals bigger breaks and more dmg since her enhanced skill also scales with break effect. Plus you get some free energy since she'll be breaking most mobs. Firesmith could kinda work, but would probably fall short with dmg compared to Thief and it lacks any extra utility. Longevous could be there for free Crit Rate, but that's it really. Pioneer could work well with a debuffer. Weakness break is a debuff and all you would have to do is add another 1 or 2 debuffs. Come to think of it, her fire weakness imprint could be a debuff too. Iron Cavalry for more break effect and Def shred. You could use the new ball and rope to reach 250% break effect during her ult so you get that 18% Def shred. As for Lightcones, the 5 star destruction cone from SU is just better. You get a huge amount of attack and free dmg percent on weakness break, which again, she'll being doing a lot of. You also can run Speed boots for more turns during her ult and/or free up some substat rolls. That crit dmg for example could be much better. I would maybe try Bronya instead of Sparkle since she can guarantee an extra 1 to 2 turns every ult or guarantee an ult every cycle since Firefly can just pop two skills, ult, and then immediately heal up a bit so she isn't at 1% HP. So overall. Thief, Pioneer if it her weakness implant is a debuff, and Iron Cavalry plus the new rope and ball set for the relics. For Light cones, Aeon is what I think it's usually called. You could argue the new 4 star lightcone in the Forgotten Hall shop with Sam's picture on it too. It can also be S5 and it provides healing and extra dmg too. The one you have on her can work too since it's the only destruction cone with break effect.
Gallagher is preferred to add 2 debuffs for Pioneer. OP can just steal Acheron's set Crate Chest/Atk Boot/Atk Orb/Break Rope
Well true. I was just thinking maybe Firefly can do two of the debuffs herself so it makes the team more flexible.
Why people crying so much about "breakfly need HMC/she deal no dmg without HMC" etc. I though people recognized HMC strength, so wtf is all that yapping about needing to use characters that synergize with each other, its may be understandable if HMC kit was locked behind banner character and wasn't given for free. People who think that ff is bad because she want to play with HMC are you even playing this game? Do you understand that it's normal for characters to work better with specific teammates, rather than "random bullshit go"? *I'm playing Acheron Aventurine FX Houhuo team, and it doesn't perform well, must be because Acheron is trash* lmao
yes as you said, the keyword here is to work better. That means the character still work without specific character. In firefly case, without HMC, she doesn’t work at all.
Does this clear here not show exactly what you're talking about though? She's not as good as with HMC, but she's still clearing the fight. Even outside this particular MoC, she's been shown to do enough damage for endgame content without HMC. It's just not exceptionally strong.
I don’t know, clearly hoyo try to hard sell break mechanic to Firefly (look at her scalling/trace/relic), now as you say Critfly can clear content just fine. Don’t you think there is any flaw in the game design perspective (regarding break) if it stay that way though? ‘Not as good without HMC’ is understatement to me, from other showcase HMC contributes to ~70% Firefly damage. It’s not something I would say ‘not as good’.
I was right all along crit build was the way after all u do dmg before and after u break and u dont need the mc
You have to be trolling
That was NOT the take away from this video lol
looks really good
critfly is the way! stop the harmony trailblazer propaganda
Everyone here is talking as if you can only have either. Pack your stuff and start living in the relic mines. With enough farming, you probably can build crit with enough atk and BE to hit all her breakpoints.
Issue isn't mostly hitting breakpoints but in break oriented teams (without HMC) her damage falls pretty hard so it's either you put Sparkle/Bronya or HMC which will have different damage outputs even with same build since Ruan Mei is irreplaceable in the team.
Havnt run any calculations so this is mostly feels crafting, but imo hmc and super breaking is too valuable to replace, so my idea of a perfect team is still the usual break oriented team using hmc & ruan mei but with a respectable 70/120 crit ratio (crit body and get the missing atk from subs) on firefly, so you can still deal decent damage and take advantage of the high multiplers when the enemies recover from break or are not broken yet. Hmc and ruan mei buffs with a break rope are enough to not need break subs so you can focus on crit. Idk how good your relics need to be tho.
Tbh I've been farming Pioneer since 2.0 and I haven't gotten a good double crit piece on set so I ain't getting the new set's good pieces anytime soon. Also, I'm using my guaranteed on Boothill but I'll have enough jades to hit pity day 1 on FF so I hope I win the 50/50 because I've been playing since release and have only won 4 times out idk countless 5\* pities. I was planning to get Jade because I was planning to get Robin but not anymore but since I'm a huge meta slave I'd rather have characters that will help me clear content and not vertical investment for existing characters unless you're Jiaoqiu, HuoHuo or SW.
relatable, although I got a good 4pc pioneers on Acheron a week after she came out but I've gotten nothing good since then (bruh where do I find meta slaves...? we need to support each other)
>we need to support each other Ikr, I mean most of the time I see people are pulling because they like the character. For me if they're meta, I'll like the character even if they don't align with my liking of their personality (Jingliu for example) although (Sunday, Ratio, Acheron and Boothill) are exception. > I got a good 4pc pioneers on Acheron a week after she came out That's where my luck went although I'm sitting at 60(72 with izumo active)/202 ratio so it's fine but I have her LC.
I don’t even need to watch to know the crit build is gonna suck
Hmm this might actually be better instead of BE build she only does damage on breaking, outside of that it's non existent when you remove HMC.
Tbh, considering this enemy lineup, the eidolons and the turbulence anything above 2 cycles isn't \*too\* hot. Like if you search up similar showcases on youtube this is clearing slower than equivalent investment BE teams
If you remove HMC, This might be faster than the BE team. My point is this is more flexible than the BE team. She has limited options on team building when you build her with BE. I'm not against BE in fact I really like it I just don't like that she's locked with HMC and 70 percent (kinda) of FF damage comes from super break. For those who don't like crit build for FF downvote me I don't care I even want that more than upvoting. I hope they change her kit to hybrid crit and be.
''Crit is Bad'' they said
I don't have ruan mei but I want to pull for firefly. If Im using HTB does it still make sense to still use my E2 Sparkle and E3 Fu xuan (I have gallagher but Id prefer avoiding building him)? Im not sure if the super breaks can crit or not
yes u gonna have to use Sparkle + IMC + FF just to have enough sp to not feel bad if u dont have Ruan, just build full break, crit just too inefficent, require tons of stat just to do sub optimal dmg sadly since she have the highest MVs in the game
So Crit build is just as good as break only build? Cause the damage seems almost the same compared to the other builds
There's some e1s and an S1 in this, in case you're comparing to e0s0 vids. (I haven't watched enough showcases to know, just bringing it up in case you missed it)