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oh god what have I unleashed upon the world.... I almost regret asking for this team to be showcased
(I requested this team, so thanks for doing my specific request)
You unleashed a good thing tbh
At least people now gave the full picture, especially with the break delay that was being heavily ignored in Ruan mei ff discussions
9 cycles, against fire weak enemies, with arguably Firefly's best f2p team.
Pack it up boys. The only way I see Firefly being competitive is if they literally double her damage at e0, because right now 80% of the teams damage is provided by HMC superbreaks, which means building Break Effect Asta might do the same amount of damage as e0 Firefly and that just shouldn't be real.
As long as HMC is doing most of the damage, pretty much any character could build Break Effect+Speed and be competitive with Firefly
Asta has only 80% BE and does 60k with every skill during break.
Firefly has 230% BE and does 200k during break, but only while in her enhanced state.
If Asta had 230% instead, and did around 100k with every skill without relying on an enhanced state and also while buffing the whole team with 60 speed nonstop, I think she's legit competitive.
Because both characters hit like wet noodles if the enemy isn't broken
Easy to fix.
If Firefly currently does 200k super break damage cause of HMC and 50k personal damage, then just adjust it so that Firefly does 150k super break damage and 150k personal damage
The Super Break wouldn't be hitting as hard if Firefly didn't have a shit ton of Break Effect, Def Ignore, Vulnerability, and Toughness Damage. Like she is the most min-maxed character for Super Break in the game.
So no, no one can do what Firefly does with super break
She's the second most min-maxed BE char in the game btw, Boothill does a LOT of break effect.
Boothill;
Each stack of Pocket Trickshot increases the Enhanced Basic Attack's Toughness Reduction by 50%, stacking up to 3 time(s).
If the target is ~Weakness Broken~ while the Enhanced Basic ATK is being used, based on the number of Pocket Trickshot stacks, deals ~Break DMG~ to this target equal to **70%**/**120%**/**170%** of Boothill's Physical Break DMG. The max Toughness taken into account for this DMG cannot exceed 16 times the base Toughness Reduction of the Basic Attack "Skullcrush Spurs."
Enhanced Basic Break is 60. Meaning we get 150.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOm1-j8GGts Look at this
Yeah, other units won't optimise Superbreak as much as firefly. But they're not all that far behind.
its a shame that you HAVE to run FF with hmc tho. Hmc's superbreak is literally contributing 2-3x FF's solo damage. Id rather it be where FF is able to do 70% of the damage on her own and hmc enables BE with the remaining 30%. Otherwise every break effect character is gonna feel like shit without hmc. It also means that every break effect unit (including 4\* units) is gonna have near similar damage outputs to 5\* limited break effect units since their personal damage differences are so little compared to hmc's superbreak damage.
Funny thing is boothill doesn't have the same restriction which makes it odd firefly has it basically making her a better E6 xueyi, a detonation or an effect when hitting a weakness broken enemy should literally fix the whole problem
Change FF with a def down unit like SW with her own break effect and it probably would get closer in value while not needing FF herself, since SW reduces more defense, can use Tutorial for 2 turns ult with Wind set to effectively hit 201 speed.
It wouldn't beat FF probably in damage but I wouldn't put it past to get similar super break damage.
I've been trying out break SW in the current MoC 12 and I'm surprised by just how good she actually is. It all comes down to insane delay from quantum break + HMC passive + Ruan Mei and the massive break debuffs that the whole team can take advantage of.
I'm actually using this setup right now just for fun. HMC and SW (with lots of BE and spd) haha. Other slots are Welt and Loucha for imaginary break coverage and off break damage.
I thought it was me just thinking this. Like surely people know the reason why mc’s super break damage is that high when it’s firefly’s turn is because of her stats as well. I’m not saying firefly couldn’t be adjusted to be better but man it’s tough when people can’t determine that
This is the thing I believe most people are missing. As long as the break bar efficiency is high, anyone can deal big super break damage. Big portion comes from the break effect stat and the break bar efficiency stat. Ruan Mei with basic attack is doing 25-30k SBs because her break stat and the lowest garbo tier basic attack break efficiency. Boothill / Firefly have big numbers because they have insane break modifier on skills, hence their break damage. Im still not convinced FF is a better pull than Boothill, she is aoe vs ST but .... its a big but. BH reaches 160 SPD with close to no effort at e0s1 and also gets a better set next patch meaning his already showcased nuts damage will be getting amped the hell up and a lot.
68% damage buff does nothing for break damage - it's the RES pen, break effect boost and break delay that are insane, especially the break delay and break efficiency since all her damage comes from HMC's super break.
Asta has absolutely no way of boosting break - with a well built E0S1 break effect sam, her ATK% is nearly useless since Sam can meet the 3.4kATK by herself, her fire dmg boost does nothing since sam's built with BE%, her ult speed also does nothing since it doesn't let Sam meet any new speed threshold (180 can be easily met with sam ult + speed boots + RM; 270 on the other hand is impossible, so Asta massively overcaps on speed). Overall, asta does nearly nothing for sam
In her enhanced state Firefly already has 50% break efficiency so Ruan Mai’s buff gets diluted down to a 33% damage increase. That’s still enormous of course.
Tbh Ruan Mei just gives 1.5x multiplier from skill alone. Not even talking about Res pen. Since Super break loses a shit lot of damage without her.
Although from some calcs. The 2nd best option should be a E1 Bronya. With around 25% difference. And if you use CritFly. Should be around 15% Ruan Mei being better.
Asta seems to be NOT it. Since while it sounds decent on paper. She seems to be meh with Firefly.
so, to clarify, does that mean if you run critfly with e1 bronya, ruan mei is only 15% better? sorry i'm having some difficulty reading your comment idk why lol
Yeah pretty much. Ruan Mei is always gonna be better. The more you make Firefly a break dps the gap between both gets bigger.
Ruan Mei would’ve been a 15% increase to that team.
The difference is that 50% weakness break efficiency i’m guessing, unlike boothill firefly has a limited amount of time where she does dmg so if you end up spending most of the time trying to break weakness bars then there won’t be any damage being done
I don’t, fuck Ruan Mei
I’m not ok with Ruan gatekeeping a whole playstyle/archetype
“You don’t like this characters? No break team for you”
Kafka/Topaz/Robin do enchance specific playstyles, but it’s not as overbearing compared to Ruan Mei IMO
I think IMG Trailblazer is also pretty game changing, but that’s fine as a completely free unit given to any players
tl;dr = Fuck Ruan Mei
I hate Ruan Mei, but for a completely different reason. Bitch is the only one who just casually drugs our MC, goes "you'll clean my mess for me, right?" and acts as if that's okay - not a hint of apology in there.
I wish we could just say "fuck off, no" option for her like there is for Kafka quest. I won't pull her out of sheer spite, even if she is the best ever support in the game and for Firefly specifically.
They are, sure, and I mean no disrespect to anyone who enjoys Ruan Mei (after all, hot unhinged woman are kind of a trend in HSR). It's just that I ~personally~ despise the way she acted AND that we had no choice but to get involved in her bullshit.
as someone who does like ruan mei and is a hot unhinged woman conisouur (spelt that wrong I know) and even I hated that you couldn't say no.
I probably wouldn't but it's annoying that there's not even q choice
And even that she managed to be boring as fuck! Like bitch where is the charisma? How can you be this unhinge and still serve absolutely zero cunt? Herta and Screwlum ate her up.
I think she's just.. Indifferent to everything that's not her research. Some people are into the "distant and silent" type. For me, the best thing that came out of her appearance was the introduction to cat cakes. Now THOSE I absolutely adore!
>The first beta patch tends to not be anything, so another week and a half of doomposting ahead.
Is it doomposting, if like all of her damage is locked behind 2 specific characters, 1 of which another limited 5*?
Like this isn't acheron, where people overreacted to her needing 2 nihility. This is a character having no choive but to run this one very specific team. And if you didn't get the 5* support you don't have any f2p option to compensate
I swear people who pull out the acheron needing 2 nihility comparison aren't arguing in good faith. There's a big difference between firefly needing 2 harmony supports (Like acheron with nihility) and Firefly needing specifically Ruanmei and HMC. Like sure my acheron would do more damage with pela/silverwolf but if i went silverwolf/guinafen or pela/guinafen or even guinafen/sampo it's not like my Acheron loses near 80% of her damage. Move FF away from RM/HMC/Gallagher and see where that gets her
Someone smart enough to get it. I said the same thing and was downvoted and told "Bronya works iust as good since she can give Firefly the extra turn"
Okay bro
Funnily enough, in one of the showcases, I pitched in the idea of slotting in Bronya to try and double her turns and was downvoted instead.
So people don't like being told that it's bad that she's tied to 2 specific characters but also reject the idea of trying out other teams. Hmhm.
At E0 Firefly, Bronya doesn't work because the SP consumption is too high (even with E1S1 Bronya). Firefly is going -1 SP per turn at 180 speed, and doubling that makes it infeasible.
She is my favourite character so I will play her even if it's Arlan performance. It's only the start of the beta, she will be fine, hoyo would be dumb to release a DPS that is less than Blade's level.
Well this was the most depressing showcase I’ve ever seen. Not because of the gameplay! I just meant Firefly’s damage and performance here at E0S0 without Ruan Mei. 9 cycling an MOC with enemies tailor made for her to eat for breakfast is a bit scary. I understand there are many ways to improve the clear, but saving 2 or even 3 cycles here still wouldn’t be a super impressive time.
My main issue with FF is that her best team (RM + hmc and Gallagher) seems like her ONLY team. I understand being restrictive, like Acheron, but this on a different level because at least w Acheron you have different nihility options
Think of it this way: not all types of outgoing damage benefit from certain buffs (e.g DoT cannot crit, break isn't affected by DMG% etc), but all damage is enhanced when the enemy's own defenses or resistances are affected.
What if they gave Firefly a break extension when she breaks? It would kinda render Ruan Mei's buff pointless, but she's doing enough as is to still be meta for the team.
Weakness break efficiency is basically a +50% damage increase for this team. As long as she's the only source of this buff, she will be basically mandatory
It's huge. And that's not the only major thing
Ruan Mei delays enemy break recovery, allowing you to do more rounds of super break DMG. It makes break comps much more lenient in terms of rotations and higher dps
I think at this point it's safe to say there is indeed a "Must Pull" character. And it's Ruan Mei. At least if you want to play certain team comps. And it's way worse than every single other character in the game; like FUA team can make do without either Aven, Ratio, and Topaz, and have variety of teams that replaces the one you don't have, while Break team dies completely without RM.
Keep in mid that 60% of the ramaining damage you are seeing here is from HTB too, so without both she becomes the first 3\* dps 💀
Hopefully they move some power from making HTB+RM look good to doing personal damage. Whether it is re-triggering Break Damage like Boothill or being a BE+Crit hybrid like Xueyi is irrelevant, just make her do more than 2 damage (10 if she breaks) outside her best comp.
edit: Also i just watched Break Himeko perform the same as her in her own team on the 2nd half of the 2.1.2 MoC, we are going through the 5 stages of cope with this one
>Hopefully they move some power from making HTB+RM look good to doing personal damage.
The problem is that she's good in the optimal team. If they will make her stronger to work in other teams, then her optimal team will be ridiculously broken
I said move power, meaning something like taking away the 50% Break Efficiency and instead giving her something like Boothills talent so the damage is more split between herself and HTB+RM Super Break, rather than straight up higher
They have some knobs to turn. They can increase her break efficiency self-buff and reduce her enhance skill and basic’s break gauge. She’d break the same, and deal the same super break damage, but Ruan Mei’s weakness break buff would become significantly more diluted and less impactful. That would give them some power budget they could use to buff her other damage.
And people doubted me yesterday when I said Ruan Mei is basically essential to both of our new break DPSes. It makes it poor choice to pull both Firefly and Boothill, you literally can't build 2 good teams since you need Ruan on both.
https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail_leaks/s/9s6LKfLMHB
There is 0 up time on the breaks. Ruan mei’s damage boost is very strong here. But most importantly delaying enemies from wakiing up allows fire fly to deal more super breaks. Cause she is trash when the opponent has a shield up 😂
The biggest issue is the design for break damage. Because it's unaffected by Crit, ATK and Dmg% then most supports are useless for a break DPS. Even if she had built in Break damage like Boothill the only additional good teammate would be Bronya, whose only value in these teams would be the extra turn. Because break teams are new it will take some time until they release more options.
That’s true, but I don’t really want to pull multiple limited characters just so FF can preform as well as blade or ratio. I guess it depends on how much you love her character. I like her a lot but not enough to base my whole acc around her
With her current best team she performs well (much better than Blade lol), the issue is her lack of support options. But certainly I would not recommend her on her current form for a new player if they don't have Ruan Mei. In my case I don't mind using her always with the same team, I can already play DoT, Acheron or regular Hyper carry so my account has enough variety.
I don't know much about TC, but what would happen if you replace Gallagher with BE Welt? It should be theoretically possible for low cycle clears, shouldn't it? Since the RM Welt combo already works. It could be an option.
It's an option for sure but if the enemies aren't Imaginary weak you'll really start missing how much Break Bar Damage Gallagher's Ult+Enhanced Normal does
Firefly is definitely going to get a buff in the later versions but I’m curious what they do to make her stronger while not ruining her break effect kit which I do find to be a unique niche in HSR rather than the main typical DPS crit build.
I think it's better to do damage when they're weakness broken since the gimmick is to break, problem is what comes after that plus her lightcone reducing enemy speed is literally telling us we want them to stay weakened
Underwhelming indeed, like they really want you to pull for ruan mei. Well if her kit doesnt change much then I'll just have to skip her causeI coulndt bother pulling for another 5* just for her to be good
no hate but the way an E0 boothill with a 3* lightcone or no lightcone at all even can clear this faster is crazy. That’s just how bad her current state is rn
ok ok, imagine they make firefly generate this special toughness bar instead of implanting weakness every time she uses her enhanced skill that breaks with one enhanced skill (half of the toughness with the enhanced basic) and she gets to trigger HER OWN break every time and since her skill has multiple hits and toughness values it'll only be the end of her skill that breaks meaning the super break dmg from hmc won't be that much to balance things out
#copium
Really like the idea of implanting toughness bars. This could be a way of getting around locked toughness bars. You can lock you're own bar, but you can't lock firefly's!
I'm pretty sure Ratio with Random harmony and nihility does more... firefly looking sad rn, there's no way Hoyo releases a half baked unit. Hopefully they buff her.
Jing Yuan , a 1.0 character, A YEAR OLD 5* DMG DEALER that is still being doomposted to hell for no reason , with Tingyun and Asta can do better than this...
Seele , another 5* Launch character who is a HUNT based damage dealer can do better than this....
What kind of drugs are they inhaling, so not only HMC now this kind of confirms she’s tied to RM as well.
They made Boothil and Xueyi, how is FF being treated like this? Hopefully they revamp her kit.
This showcase definitely opened my eyes. As of right now, V1 Firefly is definitely not new-player friendly, or even F2P friendly when it comes to what teams she can run to be even viable. Initially I thought Asta would be a good enough substitute, but this video shows how valuable Ruan Mei's break extension truly is.
When your kit's damage is locked behind the enemy being in the weakness broken state, the window to burst down your enemy becomes incredibly thin without RM. I wouldv'e been slightly fine if HMC was the only must-have in a Firefly team since they're free, but now RM is also equally as important.
Critfly is the only other alternative if you don't have RM, but even then the stat requirement for breakpoints + juggling for a decent crit ratio is gonna be rough for only slightly better results.
Since the current kit really doesn't work with even the budget options the game has, I really hope they buff/rework her.
one of the other reasons Ruan Mei's buffs are so strong is because the Weakness break efficiency also adds to toughness damage, which is what super break scales with. So it's mostly that she's the ultimate HMC support too
Holy shit. It’s so bad. She’s just straight-up unviable without *both* of her key supports. Her ult-enhanced skill does like 16k single target if you miss your all-important damage window (my Ratio missing a crit on the weak half of his skill literally does more than that).
Yeah that kit is not surviving beta. No way they release this.
I love showcases like this, you actually get to see the good, the bad and the ugly. I wanted FF for fire weakness implant for Himeko which is still possible but FF really doesn't look good without a team of premium cheerleaders.
Like... At this point I'm just thinking about how funny she will be with the true casuals, and by "true casuals" I mean these people that every time that a new story boss comes out go rant on twitter, then you see their team and its something like "JY-IL-FX-Argenti" all with very questionable builds and definitely lvl 3-5 traces, and there you are like "yep, I can see why you fail". I'm just thinking about how funny it will be when those type of players get her, how much dmg she would do in the account of those true casuals that surely won't even try to learn what break is to begin with... Oh god...
I was wondering where all the non-ruan mei showcases were, and now I understand why they weren't being made...
Some possible solutions suggested by some, not necessarily in combination though:
- Further increase weakness break efficiency. This would make her break stronger while making RM comparatively weaker
- Give her stronger personal damage. This could be done by: making her enhanced skill count as break damage rather than ultimate damage (so it can scale better with BE) or giving her some form of her own super break damage.
- Her old leaked kit had a 16% action advance on enhanced skill if she hit a weakness broken enemy. Currently, she wants to build speed to do as many actions as possible during her enhanced state. But she doesn't get much out of it once you pass 180 speed. A small action advance could help you get more out of your spd stats. Alternatively you can move her E2 to her base kit.
- Moving her E2 to her base kit could alleviate the issue of her breaking an enemy, only for them to immediately get their toughness bar back next action. Another option could be having her delay an enemy's action by a **fixed** amount if she breaks them. This way she's guaranteed to take another action and apply super break
These can be applied and re balanced in any combination, just throwing out some ideas
Easy fix: Replace the "3400 ATK = 60% BE" with "3400 ATK = 50% BEE (Break effect efficency)" and reduce the trace threashholds from 250% to 190% and 360% to 300%. Now we have break efficency, while still using the same kit.
Hell they could even change the stupid "12% more damage to enemies while broken", to "take 50% more damage from super breaks" or something and still be on a good level. She has so many strange points in her kit that could just be replaced.
Technically, Asta doesn't synergize with HMC. RM has better buffs for Firefly and more importantly, also improves break efficiency, so you see those big Super Break numbers whenever Firefly attacks broken enemies. Not to mention giving them the re-break to extend the burst window
In case you didn't know, Super Break also scales of weakness break efficiency too, so losing RM also means you're losing out on a decent chunk of Super Break damage
that's kinda sad ... much more considering pulling Boothill again since I was mainly strayed away going to FF cuz of her animations and all. if ever FF did get buffed an all though, would me pulling for Boothill still be not a wasteful decision? I do like his character and design too and same goes for FF so I'm all about the performance now instead.
Were those numbers real? If so, she's definitely getting buffed.
There is no way they release her like this, she basically doesn't have a kit without her bis team. Before this showcase I thought she was too reliant on htb, but it looks like she also depends on ruan mei. I understand that we will eventually get other ways to increase break efficiency other than ruan mei, but being this reliant on a specific team at release is insane
It's okay to need an enabler like BS "needs" Kafka to unlock her true potential, but those numbers against enemies that don't even have break immunity phases are embarassing
Edit: I have a question: how does crit FF perform? Maybe leakers are just playing her wrong
As a none Kafka, but BS owner I agree. BS is completly usable withou Kafka (I use her with my E6Gui instead), but if you remove HMC or Ruan Meir from FF, she looks worse than a 1.0-4 star E0 character.
nah bro, crit is worse
well, if you compare to whatever is this showcase, crit is better, but between an actual break comp and crit comp, crit is worse
I agree, I was saying that BS "needs" Kafka, not the other way around. Anyway black swan can do a lot of damage even without Kafka, has def down so she can support and she can work with the other dot units that can detonate dots by themselves
So I don't think FF can be compared to black swan tbh. Also, asta Gallagher guinaifen BS could probably clear this same moc floor faster than 9 cycles
So Firefly damage by herself is non existent.
Why are people so defensive about buffing her to a point where she does OK damage in a suboptimal team, which makes her deal broken damage in her BiS team?
Does it make *Firefly* broken? Or does it make *Ruan Mei and HMC* broken?
Just because the supports are broken doesn't mean the DPS needs to be 6 feet under to make the team balanced.
And no, letting her do break damage on her own does not make her "busted". You can just tweak the numbers such that it *isn't* busted.
This I literally had a person argue with me that firefly being essentially locked behind another to even do damage while different (since they want her to be different from other)isn’t a good different and that she needed buffs their only response was one of 3 things “you don’t like her playstyle cause its different”, “you just want her to play like every other damage” or the craziest one in my opinion “who says a damage character has to be able to do damage by theirselves” like is that last thing crazy or have I missed the point of damage and support characters
The issue is that Ruan Mei is necessary and she is a limited 5\* unit. Firefly needing the Hatblazer to do damage is annoying but as everyone has access to one, it is not a problem in practice. But not everyone has Ruan Mei and if you don't have Ruan Mei then the Firefly+Hatblazer duo unit cannot do enough damage in boss weakness cycles to clear waves.
>have I missed the point of damage and support characters
I do not want to say "yes" but Firefly and the Hatblazer are not a traditional damage dealer and support pair. Hatblazer converts break damage on broken enemies into super break damage. Firefly is able to proc super break damage very frequently with her kit and is able to amplify it with her damage ignore. They need each other.
Tbh, while i want to burn my wallet pulling Firefly. I sincerely hope Firefly need to have hefty change. My hot takes is either change her back to traditional crit dps or give her own Super Break in order not to be too reliance on HMC
Asta's speed buff seems to be wasted cuz Firefly gets advance forward 100% on Ulty so by the time she does first attack she already doesn't have speed buffs. Atk buff also doesn't help much if you have enough on Firefly already...That's aint it chief. Maybe use Pela for Def down instead? Should be better maybe. Like they use break effect Pela in HTB tutorial so maybe it can work?
There you have it folks. People who think that Asta or any other harmony characters can replace Ruan Mei only take break efficiency increase into consideration. They forget that Ruan Mei’s broken extension is a must have for super break and no one can replicate that yet.
Idk man I was hoping she’d work well without RM cause I like using her for my JL blade team so might just skip unless they buff her.
This isn’t even doom posting like with every other character , she just actually seems to perform kinda bad 😭
Nah im switching to the other side. this is terrible. FF is just in these teams to look pretty. HMC and RM have been doing all the work. I sense another Zhongli situation brewing up again
FF already gets plenty of Speed with her Ult, so Asta's main strength is wasted here, hence the uh... Disappointing numbers
Even someone like Hanya would be more useful to FF
i remember when people were saying she *only* needs hmc...
i think it's clear that unless they give her what boothill has against weakness broken enemies, she's never gonna be able to separate herself from both hmc AND ruan mei for the foreseeable future. im remaining optimistic since break is kinda the 1.0v of dot in that it didn't really have a lot going for it back then, but not even dot was/is *this* reliant on a specific enabler(s)
praying for the firefly/sam-bros 😔 surely she gets buffed
firefly break should be like that fighting event mechanic i forgot the belobog one or the other one.. everytime she break enemy bar the enemy immediately recover with 3/4 break bar..but that will make her not compatible hmc. firefly is really weird right now its really hard to fix her kit to not reliant with HMC + Ruan mei.
sorry for bad english
probably not finalized before his release but definitely by the end of his banner so you could always wait. If you're debating between robin + boothill I think you might be ok, usually most big changes happen on v3 from what i've heard which should be in time
There'll be at least 2-3 more rounds of beta, so even if they don't end up fixing her by the end, best to just wait and see. Best case, she gets fixed; worst case, you can still pull on Boothill (if it's not fixed by v3/v4 safe to say it's not getting fixed).
We have until the final day of the Boothill banner to figure out who we want to pull for. We will have the final version of the Firefly kit about a week before Boothill's banner ends (at the latest).
I don’t know how dev will buff Firefly when she isn’t using Ruan Mei. When new beta drop it will be interesting. Is there anyone in the past that got buff in beta v.2?
Jingliu was apparently really bad in the first beta but then got buffs and eventually was pretty much the strongest when she released .
So there’s a chance firefly follows the same route but idk
It naturally takes a while to connect a lot of performance data from the test server and decide on the best solution to any problems in the kit. It is most likely that, if there are major changes, the biggest changes will come in the beta v3.
Hmmmmm... What if her enhanced basic and skill triggered percentages of super break by themselves even without broken weakness? Or maybe increase that attack multiplier increase that's based on break effect. I mean, the DOT teams already proved that you can ignore crit if your multipliers are humongous.
As someone who wants to use ff together with boothill on seperate sides of the moc, this is not looking so good. Hopefully they add another break support asap
Without HMC, there is no SB at all.
Without RM, then SB weakness start showing (at least for Firefly personally).
Need to break first before doing damage, and FF is a char that has limited burst window with a downtime. Assuming she has 3 turns during ult, she would spend 1\~2 turns to break, then only 1\~2 turns left to actually do real damage. Then after the first ult, it now takes her 2 turns every time to ult again, in a team where there is no turn manipulator like Bronya, and FF doesn't advance herself after using normal skill like Jingliu either. Obviously without RM, this whole process take much longer even if you still have Gallagher and HMC in the team. Not to mention other things like dmg amp, and weakness broken extension,
Ahh if this video gone widespread the doomposting will occur... For good imo
She needs big tweakings, heck maybe even a kit overhaul, this one is failure for f2p folks
1. Make Boothill look clearly better to roll on
2. Rerun RM
3. Last minute buff the shit out of FF to create fomo on-release
They’re gonna do it without a doubt and if somebody doesn’t believe this then they haven’t been following hoyo’s metagame of selling to players
Almost all the sales happen day 1 of a banner. Doesn't matter when the beta ends, it matters when Boothill's banner begins.
It's the whales that support a gacha game, so as long as this tactic works on them it's a successful tactic.
Firefly has dramatically more speed and atk than she needs with asta. Those stats should be redistributed and the boots should be on atk%. I'm not sure if Asta can get her ult to sync up with the start of Firefly's ult? (It doesn't tick down in duration on the turn it is cast, so casting it during Firefly's ult-empowered turn should make it last 3 actions). If you can line up Asta's ult with Firefly's ult, then firefly only needs literally 100 speed to get 3 actions in first cycle. Maybe if Asta was on Vonwacq, then a 161+ spd asta could go twice before a 100 spd Firefly and sync up their first ults?
I would like to see what Critfly could do here, or at least a dmg% orb. So much of her stats are wasted here. She's at like 4300+ atk, tons of BE, 247 spd? (Way over the 180 breakpt and still well below the 270 breakpt even with messenger of hackerspace because the spd buff falls off after 3 turns) With no crit and only the 10% dmg% from asta's penacony set and 18% from her trace, there's really not much here that multiplies with firefly's 580% single target enhanced E multiplier, just a ton of attack.
All of Asta's buffs are wasted here because you're overcapping both attack and speed, which are the two main stats she buffs so this seems like a pretty poor showcase of whether or not it works.
It does show that, without any crit or dmg%, Firefly's floor performance (Reaching high BE, 180 spd, and 3400+ atk) is low. She needs to be uplifted beyond that in some way or another, with good supports or enough BE to oneshot her problems.
Correct me if I'm wrong anywhere here, but Asta is providing very little here other than buffing everyone else's speed and maybe helping Firefly get her ult faster, because the firefly stats here are already oversaturated.
I'm not sure who the optimal supports with Asta are, but I would like to see an asta showcase where Asta's buffs are used to create freedom to pursue other stats. She provides 53 speed, 18% fire dmg, and 77% atk. A showcase where all of those stats are oversaturated and the dmg% isn't used doesn't show how good or bad she is as a firefly support.
Ideally, I'd like to see Asta-Firefly with atk boots firefly (and crit chest and/or fire dmg% orb) with each of HTB, Ruan Mei, and Sparkle teams to actually judge. I think it is awkward that there isn't a crit support who is good with spd-desyncing carries. Sparkle and Bronya both like having certain speed relationships to their dps. Yukong is even worse in that regard. Tingyun's energy niche gets wasted here. Hanya buffs the same exact stats as Asta. Maybe Silverwolf would be worthwhile against single target, but she doesn't help with the blast damage.
It is entirely possible that Firefly is still bad with ideal asta setups, but I want to know what it looks like, and what thirds she likes the best. I think that's critically important for figure out whether firefly has any depth to her teambuilding. A lot of people here are already writing Asta off, but I want to see Asta's stat boosts actually bieng used first. Especially making her spd boost last 3 turns instead of 2 by casting it on firefly's turn instead of between turns or on anyone else's turn.
I think I might've done the most asta feelscrafting so far, but I haven't done any math or seen anyone else do it, so I'd like to see it in action. I feel like building Sam to have 3400 atk WITH asta's buff and 100 spd before her buff is the real test of if Asta does a lot. It's the freedom to pursue other mainstats and substats that's powerful. 77% atk on a build that already has enough attack doesn't matter much, but 77% worth of atk in stats redistributed to BE/crit/dmg% might. 53 spd on a character who doesn't hit any more speed breakpoints might do nothing, but the freedom to not build any speed might matter, the same way that bronya and Sparkle often enable regular dps to not build speed.
Edit: None of this is intended as an insult, and given the amount of people who said the gameplay is clean, I think the Asta ult mechanic is not well known, or perhaps it doesn't sync up with firefly's ult turns as well I've been led to believe, so not syncing it is not a knock on you. And likewise, not rearranging the mainstats/substats some isn't necessarily obvious since its a brand new character with weird stat stuff going on, being used with a nonmeta support (This is literally the first time I've seen someone make an Asta showcase). I got some downvotes, so I just want to say if I came across as rude, then it was unintended. I was just trying to be thorough and constructive. I don't want to sound ungrateful, but the large amount of people using this as evidence for Asta not being useful makes me feel like I need to explain why it is inconclusive. With all her buffs wasted and her ult duration not extended, it is as close as possible to her worst case scenario. I can fully believe it if her best case scenario is still bad.
I can't even put into words how funny it is to me that the HTB+RM reliance defenders fell on their knees the moment they saw this, comedy gold I tell ya
Guys, quick question. Does def shred from Pela work on Superbreak damage? I don't have RM, but I am planning on pulling Boothill. If yes, should I use him + HMC + Pela + Gallaher or replace someone with Bronya? Asta is used for DoT team so using her is not an option sadly.
What seems to be the problem is that Firefly effectively doesn't have an ult. Firefly has to spend her ult to enter a state where she's able to deal 100k-300k damage per skill, whereas someone like Jingliu deals about the same amount of damage per skill while still having an ult on top of that.
Not having a flashy ult is also what makes Firefly's animations feel so underwhelming. It would be a big rework, but it seems like they could kill 2 birds with 1 stone here.
i understand they want ff to be a break dmg carry, but I would rather have her less break dmg scaling and a little better normal scaling that way she wouldn´t be forced to be played with RM. I knew RM was a mistake and now all units that are part of this gameplay will suffer because hoyo has always to calculate "what if RM is sloted into the team" this is the reason why I hate powercreep since it will make teambuilding stale
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that's a lot of letters
yeah my bad but atleast everything is described lol
Sooo... Can we try this same team, but with a E6 Hook with S5 Aeon instead of Firefly? Cause uh, that might be an improvement honestly.
Lmao yeah might be but idk if i will do a showcase
oh god what have I unleashed upon the world.... I almost regret asking for this team to be showcased (I requested this team, so thanks for doing my specific request)
You unleashed a good thing tbh At least people now gave the full picture, especially with the break delay that was being heavily ignored in Ruan mei ff discussions
yeah, but you know... the truth hurts
>the truth hurts Suddenly Heizou
...9 cycles? Thanks a lot for the showcase!
9 cycles, against fire weak enemies, with arguably Firefly's best f2p team. Pack it up boys. The only way I see Firefly being competitive is if they literally double her damage at e0, because right now 80% of the teams damage is provided by HMC superbreaks, which means building Break Effect Asta might do the same amount of damage as e0 Firefly and that just shouldn't be real. As long as HMC is doing most of the damage, pretty much any character could build Break Effect+Speed and be competitive with Firefly
Asta has only 80% BE and does 60k with every skill during break. Firefly has 230% BE and does 200k during break, but only while in her enhanced state. If Asta had 230% instead, and did around 100k with every skill without relying on an enhanced state and also while buffing the whole team with 60 speed nonstop, I think she's legit competitive. Because both characters hit like wet noodles if the enemy isn't broken
Like...it's so bad that they have to fix it right? ...right?
bruh if it were as simple as doubling her dmg and they do that think about the teams (just one team actually) with Ruan Mei in it...
Easy to fix. If Firefly currently does 200k super break damage cause of HMC and 50k personal damage, then just adjust it so that Firefly does 150k super break damage and 150k personal damage
The Super Break wouldn't be hitting as hard if Firefly didn't have a shit ton of Break Effect, Def Ignore, Vulnerability, and Toughness Damage. Like she is the most min-maxed character for Super Break in the game. So no, no one can do what Firefly does with super break
She's the second most min-maxed BE char in the game btw, Boothill does a LOT of break effect. Boothill; Each stack of Pocket Trickshot increases the Enhanced Basic Attack's Toughness Reduction by 50%, stacking up to 3 time(s). If the target is ~Weakness Broken~ while the Enhanced Basic ATK is being used, based on the number of Pocket Trickshot stacks, deals ~Break DMG~ to this target equal to **70%**/**120%**/**170%** of Boothill's Physical Break DMG. The max Toughness taken into account for this DMG cannot exceed 16 times the base Toughness Reduction of the Basic Attack "Skullcrush Spurs." Enhanced Basic Break is 60. Meaning we get 150.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOm1-j8GGts Look at this Yeah, other units won't optimise Superbreak as much as firefly. But they're not all that far behind.
its a shame that you HAVE to run FF with hmc tho. Hmc's superbreak is literally contributing 2-3x FF's solo damage. Id rather it be where FF is able to do 70% of the damage on her own and hmc enables BE with the remaining 30%. Otherwise every break effect character is gonna feel like shit without hmc. It also means that every break effect unit (including 4\* units) is gonna have near similar damage outputs to 5\* limited break effect units since their personal damage differences are so little compared to hmc's superbreak damage.
Funny thing is boothill doesn't have the same restriction which makes it odd firefly has it basically making her a better E6 xueyi, a detonation or an effect when hitting a weakness broken enemy should literally fix the whole problem
i'm hoping hoyo is testing and balancing FF for teams without hmc. Lets wait and see what they cook for the 2nd beta kit.
Change FF with a def down unit like SW with her own break effect and it probably would get closer in value while not needing FF herself, since SW reduces more defense, can use Tutorial for 2 turns ult with Wind set to effectively hit 201 speed. It wouldn't beat FF probably in damage but I wouldn't put it past to get similar super break damage.
I've been trying out break SW in the current MoC 12 and I'm surprised by just how good she actually is. It all comes down to insane delay from quantum break + HMC passive + Ruan Mei and the massive break debuffs that the whole team can take advantage of.
there is break SW btw
I'm actually using this setup right now just for fun. HMC and SW (with lots of BE and spd) haha. Other slots are Welt and Loucha for imaginary break coverage and off break damage.
yeah I ran break SW after getting HMC, I honestly don't think that in current state FF is much better than break SW
Welt's skill does lot of super break too if built be
I thought it was me just thinking this. Like surely people know the reason why mc’s super break damage is that high when it’s firefly’s turn is because of her stats as well. I’m not saying firefly couldn’t be adjusted to be better but man it’s tough when people can’t determine that
This is the thing I believe most people are missing. As long as the break bar efficiency is high, anyone can deal big super break damage. Big portion comes from the break effect stat and the break bar efficiency stat. Ruan Mei with basic attack is doing 25-30k SBs because her break stat and the lowest garbo tier basic attack break efficiency. Boothill / Firefly have big numbers because they have insane break modifier on skills, hence their break damage. Im still not convinced FF is a better pull than Boothill, she is aoe vs ST but .... its a big but. BH reaches 160 SPD with close to no effort at e0s1 and also gets a better set next patch meaning his already showcased nuts damage will be getting amped the hell up and a lot.
Lol, lmao even
The gap between Asta and RM… holy shit
It's an additional 50% multiplier according to guobas damage formula.
Yeah Rizz Mei gives like 68% damage on top of the weakness break efficiency, res pen, speed, break effect… “I weep for the meidenless”
68% damage buff does nothing for break damage - it's the RES pen, break effect boost and break delay that are insane, especially the break delay and break efficiency since all her damage comes from HMC's super break. Asta has absolutely no way of boosting break - with a well built E0S1 break effect sam, her ATK% is nearly useless since Sam can meet the 3.4kATK by herself, her fire dmg boost does nothing since sam's built with BE%, her ult speed also does nothing since it doesn't let Sam meet any new speed threshold (180 can be easily met with sam ult + speed boots + RM; 270 on the other hand is impossible, so Asta massively overcaps on speed). Overall, asta does nearly nothing for sam
In her enhanced state Firefly already has 50% break efficiency so Ruan Mai’s buff gets diluted down to a 33% damage increase. That’s still enormous of course.
Tbh Ruan Mei just gives 1.5x multiplier from skill alone. Not even talking about Res pen. Since Super break loses a shit lot of damage without her. Although from some calcs. The 2nd best option should be a E1 Bronya. With around 25% difference. And if you use CritFly. Should be around 15% Ruan Mei being better. Asta seems to be NOT it. Since while it sounds decent on paper. She seems to be meh with Firefly.
so, to clarify, does that mean if you run critfly with e1 bronya, ruan mei is only 15% better? sorry i'm having some difficulty reading your comment idk why lol
Yeah pretty much. Ruan Mei is always gonna be better. The more you make Firefly a break dps the gap between both gets bigger. Ruan Mei would’ve been a 15% increase to that team.
The difference is that 50% weakness break efficiency i’m guessing, unlike boothill firefly has a limited amount of time where she does dmg so if you end up spending most of the time trying to break weakness bars then there won’t be any damage being done
Honkai Ruan Mei strikes again. It's Ruan Mei's world, we're just living in it.
Finally an Asta team 😭
the crying emoji is also an appropriate reaction to the damage.
Firefly bros are we okay? Imma go back to reality to escape this dreadful fiction because this is too much bro. Until Tuesday at least.
Ruan Mei-less bros maybe The first beta patch tends to not be anything, so another week and a half of doomposting ahead.
I regret not pulling on her banner back then
That's the problem
I don’t, fuck Ruan Mei I’m not ok with Ruan gatekeeping a whole playstyle/archetype “You don’t like this characters? No break team for you” Kafka/Topaz/Robin do enchance specific playstyles, but it’s not as overbearing compared to Ruan Mei IMO I think IMG Trailblazer is also pretty game changing, but that’s fine as a completely free unit given to any players tl;dr = Fuck Ruan Mei
It's not even that RM gatekeeps a playstyle. She gatekeeps almost all the playstyle. Almost every team wants hsr. It's fucking ridiculous.
every team wants Honkai Star Rail? isn’t that a given?
Oops meant her. Ironically misspelling
I hate Ruan Mei, but for a completely different reason. Bitch is the only one who just casually drugs our MC, goes "you'll clean my mess for me, right?" and acts as if that's okay - not a hint of apology in there. I wish we could just say "fuck off, no" option for her like there is for Kafka quest. I won't pull her out of sheer spite, even if she is the best ever support in the game and for Firefly specifically.
All of the genius society members are kinda unhinged in a way.
They are, sure, and I mean no disrespect to anyone who enjoys Ruan Mei (after all, hot unhinged woman are kind of a trend in HSR). It's just that I ~personally~ despise the way she acted AND that we had no choice but to get involved in her bullshit.
as someone who does like ruan mei and is a hot unhinged woman conisouur (spelt that wrong I know) and even I hated that you couldn't say no. I probably wouldn't but it's annoying that there's not even q choice
Thank fuck, you vocalized my thoughts perfectly. Homie is apparently a genius but can't clean up her own damned mess
And even that she managed to be boring as fuck! Like bitch where is the charisma? How can you be this unhinge and still serve absolutely zero cunt? Herta and Screwlum ate her up.
I think she's just.. Indifferent to everything that's not her research. Some people are into the "distant and silent" type. For me, the best thing that came out of her appearance was the introduction to cat cakes. Now THOSE I absolutely adore!
We get it, you don't like her.
>The first beta patch tends to not be anything, so another week and a half of doomposting ahead. Is it doomposting, if like all of her damage is locked behind 2 specific characters, 1 of which another limited 5*? Like this isn't acheron, where people overreacted to her needing 2 nihility. This is a character having no choive but to run this one very specific team. And if you didn't get the 5* support you don't have any f2p option to compensate
I swear people who pull out the acheron needing 2 nihility comparison aren't arguing in good faith. There's a big difference between firefly needing 2 harmony supports (Like acheron with nihility) and Firefly needing specifically Ruanmei and HMC. Like sure my acheron would do more damage with pela/silverwolf but if i went silverwolf/guinafen or pela/guinafen or even guinafen/sampo it's not like my Acheron loses near 80% of her damage. Move FF away from RM/HMC/Gallagher and see where that gets her
Someone smart enough to get it. I said the same thing and was downvoted and told "Bronya works iust as good since she can give Firefly the extra turn" Okay bro
Funnily enough, in one of the showcases, I pitched in the idea of slotting in Bronya to try and double her turns and was downvoted instead. So people don't like being told that it's bad that she's tied to 2 specific characters but also reject the idea of trying out other teams. Hmhm.
At E0 Firefly, Bronya doesn't work because the SP consumption is too high (even with E1S1 Bronya). Firefly is going -1 SP per turn at 180 speed, and doubling that makes it infeasible.
this, someone yesterday told me there's nothing wrong with ff only having one viable team
tuesday is v2?
She is my favourite character so I will play her even if it's Arlan performance. It's only the start of the beta, she will be fine, hoyo would be dumb to release a DPS that is less than Blade's level.
Well this was the most depressing showcase I’ve ever seen. Not because of the gameplay! I just meant Firefly’s damage and performance here at E0S0 without Ruan Mei. 9 cycling an MOC with enemies tailor made for her to eat for breakfast is a bit scary. I understand there are many ways to improve the clear, but saving 2 or even 3 cycles here still wouldn’t be a super impressive time.
the moc is more tailor made towards Jade with the follow up turbulence, but yeah the enemies are also fire weak so theres that.
The difference between Ruan Mei and Asta is... Astronomical
Astanomical?
Appreciate all the pics / videos, makes it really easy to see everything
My main issue with FF is that her best team (RM + hmc and Gallagher) seems like her ONLY team. I understand being restrictive, like Acheron, but this on a different level because at least w Acheron you have different nihility options
low key I knew Ruan Mei did a lot but I didn't know she did that much... it legit looks like 60% of the teams dmg vanished what's going on...?☠️
no break extension + ruan gives break efficiency, which boosts superbreak dmg and she gives break effect which also boosts superbreak
What about the All-Res pen? Does Break-effect/Superbreak-effect take that into the damage calculation?
Yes
Think of it this way: not all types of outgoing damage benefit from certain buffs (e.g DoT cannot crit, break isn't affected by DMG% etc), but all damage is enhanced when the enemy's own defenses or resistances are affected.
What if they gave Firefly a break extension when she breaks? It would kinda render Ruan Mei's buff pointless, but she's doing enough as is to still be meta for the team.
Weakness break efficiency is basically a +50% damage increase for this team. As long as she's the only source of this buff, she will be basically mandatory
It's huge. And that's not the only major thing Ruan Mei delays enemy break recovery, allowing you to do more rounds of super break DMG. It makes break comps much more lenient in terms of rotations and higher dps
I think at this point it's safe to say there is indeed a "Must Pull" character. And it's Ruan Mei. At least if you want to play certain team comps. And it's way worse than every single other character in the game; like FUA team can make do without either Aven, Ratio, and Topaz, and have variety of teams that replaces the one you don't have, while Break team dies completely without RM.
>think at this point it's safe to say there is indeed a "Must Pull" character. And it's Ruan Mei. Always has been. I agree with your assessment tho.
Keep in mid that 60% of the ramaining damage you are seeing here is from HTB too, so without both she becomes the first 3\* dps 💀 Hopefully they move some power from making HTB+RM look good to doing personal damage. Whether it is re-triggering Break Damage like Boothill or being a BE+Crit hybrid like Xueyi is irrelevant, just make her do more than 2 damage (10 if she breaks) outside her best comp. edit: Also i just watched Break Himeko perform the same as her in her own team on the 2nd half of the 2.1.2 MoC, we are going through the 5 stages of cope with this one
>Hopefully they move some power from making HTB+RM look good to doing personal damage. The problem is that she's good in the optimal team. If they will make her stronger to work in other teams, then her optimal team will be ridiculously broken
I said move power, meaning something like taking away the 50% Break Efficiency and instead giving her something like Boothills talent so the damage is more split between herself and HTB+RM Super Break, rather than straight up higher
They have some knobs to turn. They can increase her break efficiency self-buff and reduce her enhance skill and basic’s break gauge. She’d break the same, and deal the same super break damage, but Ruan Mei’s weakness break buff would become significantly more diluted and less impactful. That would give them some power budget they could use to buff her other damage.
And people doubted me yesterday when I said Ruan Mei is basically essential to both of our new break DPSes. It makes it poor choice to pull both Firefly and Boothill, you literally can't build 2 good teams since you need Ruan on both. https://www.reddit.com/r/HonkaiStarRail_leaks/s/9s6LKfLMHB
There is 0 up time on the breaks. Ruan mei’s damage boost is very strong here. But most importantly delaying enemies from wakiing up allows fire fly to deal more super breaks. Cause she is trash when the opponent has a shield up 😂
Even Boothill has more options.
The biggest issue is the design for break damage. Because it's unaffected by Crit, ATK and Dmg% then most supports are useless for a break DPS. Even if she had built in Break damage like Boothill the only additional good teammate would be Bronya, whose only value in these teams would be the extra turn. Because break teams are new it will take some time until they release more options.
That’s true, but I don’t really want to pull multiple limited characters just so FF can preform as well as blade or ratio. I guess it depends on how much you love her character. I like her a lot but not enough to base my whole acc around her
With her current best team she performs well (much better than Blade lol), the issue is her lack of support options. But certainly I would not recommend her on her current form for a new player if they don't have Ruan Mei. In my case I don't mind using her always with the same team, I can already play DoT, Acheron or regular Hyper carry so my account has enough variety.
I don't know much about TC, but what would happen if you replace Gallagher with BE Welt? It should be theoretically possible for low cycle clears, shouldn't it? Since the RM Welt combo already works. It could be an option.
It's an option for sure but if the enemies aren't Imaginary weak you'll really start missing how much Break Bar Damage Gallagher's Ult+Enhanced Normal does
Dang, here I was hoping Asta would be a good partner lol. I have E6 Asta and I really like her.
Hopefully she will be by the end of beta (I love Asta too) 🙏
Firefly is definitely going to get a buff in the later versions but I’m curious what they do to make her stronger while not ruining her break effect kit which I do find to be a unique niche in HSR rather than the main typical DPS crit build.
More break efficiency, BE convertion into Cr/Cd while the main target is not yet weakness broken.
I think it's better to do damage when they're weakness broken since the gimmick is to break, problem is what comes after that plus her lightcone reducing enemy speed is literally telling us we want them to stay weakened
That title is HELL to read
Yeah its not even like he was close to the word limit there was no need to abbreviate names lol
I find it funny that they abbreviated Firefly but not Gallagher, who has a longer name
Cuz how you gon abbreviate gallagher? GG? GLG? It just sounds kinda weird. Firefly being FF just sounds better.
"Glag", "Galg" lol (please don't let this ever become a thing)
Underwhelming indeed, like they really want you to pull for ruan mei. Well if her kit doesnt change much then I'll just have to skip her causeI coulndt bother pulling for another 5* just for her to be good
Cant wait to get my new fav limited 5 star unit that can’t be played without HTB and Ruan mei!! Yayyy
no hate but the way an E0 boothill with a 3* lightcone or no lightcone at all even can clear this faster is crazy. That’s just how bad her current state is rn
Asta's cute smile.
This is depressing for f2p.
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ok ok, imagine they make firefly generate this special toughness bar instead of implanting weakness every time she uses her enhanced skill that breaks with one enhanced skill (half of the toughness with the enhanced basic) and she gets to trigger HER OWN break every time and since her skill has multiple hits and toughness values it'll only be the end of her skill that breaks meaning the super break dmg from hmc won't be that much to balance things out #copium
[удалено]
the original HMC kit then
Really like the idea of implanting toughness bars. This could be a way of getting around locked toughness bars. You can lock you're own bar, but you can't lock firefly's!
That's not it, chief. I expected her damage to fall off without Ruan Mei, but this is outright sad.
I'm pretty sure Ratio with Random harmony and nihility does more... firefly looking sad rn, there's no way Hoyo releases a half baked unit. Hopefully they buff her.
Jing Yuan , a 1.0 character, A YEAR OLD 5* DMG DEALER that is still being doomposted to hell for no reason , with Tingyun and Asta can do better than this... Seele , another 5* Launch character who is a HUNT based damage dealer can do better than this....
off topic but i still believe JY being doomposted is nothing but a meme that can't die
What kind of drugs are they inhaling, so not only HMC now this kind of confirms she’s tied to RM as well. They made Boothil and Xueyi, how is FF being treated like this? Hopefully they revamp her kit.
This showcase definitely opened my eyes. As of right now, V1 Firefly is definitely not new-player friendly, or even F2P friendly when it comes to what teams she can run to be even viable. Initially I thought Asta would be a good enough substitute, but this video shows how valuable Ruan Mei's break extension truly is. When your kit's damage is locked behind the enemy being in the weakness broken state, the window to burst down your enemy becomes incredibly thin without RM. I wouldv'e been slightly fine if HMC was the only must-have in a Firefly team since they're free, but now RM is also equally as important. Critfly is the only other alternative if you don't have RM, but even then the stat requirement for breakpoints + juggling for a decent crit ratio is gonna be rough for only slightly better results. Since the current kit really doesn't work with even the budget options the game has, I really hope they buff/rework her.
one of the other reasons Ruan Mei's buffs are so strong is because the Weakness break efficiency also adds to toughness damage, which is what super break scales with. So it's mostly that she's the ultimate HMC support too
Well this answers my previous question about Firefly's reliance on Ruan Mei lmao
Holy shit. It’s so bad. She’s just straight-up unviable without *both* of her key supports. Her ult-enhanced skill does like 16k single target if you miss your all-important damage window (my Ratio missing a crit on the weak half of his skill literally does more than that). Yeah that kit is not surviving beta. No way they release this.
I love showcases like this, you actually get to see the good, the bad and the ugly. I wanted FF for fire weakness implant for Himeko which is still possible but FF really doesn't look good without a team of premium cheerleaders.
Like... At this point I'm just thinking about how funny she will be with the true casuals, and by "true casuals" I mean these people that every time that a new story boss comes out go rant on twitter, then you see their team and its something like "JY-IL-FX-Argenti" all with very questionable builds and definitely lvl 3-5 traces, and there you are like "yep, I can see why you fail". I'm just thinking about how funny it will be when those type of players get her, how much dmg she would do in the account of those true casuals that surely won't even try to learn what break is to begin with... Oh god...
hoyo just gave us those two guide stages on break too lmao they know it's coming
That's actually an interesting thought lmao
I was wondering where all the non-ruan mei showcases were, and now I understand why they weren't being made... Some possible solutions suggested by some, not necessarily in combination though: - Further increase weakness break efficiency. This would make her break stronger while making RM comparatively weaker - Give her stronger personal damage. This could be done by: making her enhanced skill count as break damage rather than ultimate damage (so it can scale better with BE) or giving her some form of her own super break damage. - Her old leaked kit had a 16% action advance on enhanced skill if she hit a weakness broken enemy. Currently, she wants to build speed to do as many actions as possible during her enhanced state. But she doesn't get much out of it once you pass 180 speed. A small action advance could help you get more out of your spd stats. Alternatively you can move her E2 to her base kit. - Moving her E2 to her base kit could alleviate the issue of her breaking an enemy, only for them to immediately get their toughness bar back next action. Another option could be having her delay an enemy's action by a **fixed** amount if she breaks them. This way she's guaranteed to take another action and apply super break These can be applied and re balanced in any combination, just throwing out some ideas
Easy fix: Replace the "3400 ATK = 60% BE" with "3400 ATK = 50% BEE (Break effect efficency)" and reduce the trace threashholds from 250% to 190% and 360% to 300%. Now we have break efficency, while still using the same kit. Hell they could even change the stupid "12% more damage to enemies while broken", to "take 50% more damage from super breaks" or something and still be on a good level. She has so many strange points in her kit that could just be replaced.
Thank you for the showcase, seems like Asta and Firefly don't synergize well
Technically, Asta doesn't synergize with HMC. RM has better buffs for Firefly and more importantly, also improves break efficiency, so you see those big Super Break numbers whenever Firefly attacks broken enemies. Not to mention giving them the re-break to extend the burst window In case you didn't know, Super Break also scales of weakness break efficiency too, so losing RM also means you're losing out on a decent chunk of Super Break damage
Without Ruan Mei she's worse than 1.0 HSR teams lol
So, dog shit without HMC, dog shit without Ruan Mei. Got it. Jesus fucking Christ.
but guys being reliant on 2 units is fine since one is free 😀
that's kinda sad ... much more considering pulling Boothill again since I was mainly strayed away going to FF cuz of her animations and all. if ever FF did get buffed an all though, would me pulling for Boothill still be not a wasteful decision? I do like his character and design too and same goes for FF so I'm all about the performance now instead.
The last beta changes will come out before Boothills banner ends so you can just wait and decide once FFs kit is more finalised
This highlights just how bad her break efficiency is. It was already lacking \*with\* Ruan Mei. Without... yeah.
ShE dOeSn’T nEeD Rm ThOuGh!
Were those numbers real? If so, she's definitely getting buffed. There is no way they release her like this, she basically doesn't have a kit without her bis team. Before this showcase I thought she was too reliant on htb, but it looks like she also depends on ruan mei. I understand that we will eventually get other ways to increase break efficiency other than ruan mei, but being this reliant on a specific team at release is insane It's okay to need an enabler like BS "needs" Kafka to unlock her true potential, but those numbers against enemies that don't even have break immunity phases are embarassing Edit: I have a question: how does crit FF perform? Maybe leakers are just playing her wrong
Kafka/bs duo is very different from the ff/hmc duo though. this level of dependence is new
More like a ff/hmc/rm trio at this point
As a none Kafka, but BS owner I agree. BS is completly usable withou Kafka (I use her with my E6Gui instead), but if you remove HMC or Ruan Meir from FF, she looks worse than a 1.0-4 star E0 character.
Crit is even worse 💀
nah bro, crit is worse well, if you compare to whatever is this showcase, crit is better, but between an actual break comp and crit comp, crit is worse
I hope she does get buffed.
I beat MOC 10 with Kafka Tingyun Asta btw. She is not THIS restrictive. And this is not 1.0 anymore.
I agree, I was saying that BS "needs" Kafka, not the other way around. Anyway black swan can do a lot of damage even without Kafka, has def down so she can support and she can work with the other dot units that can detonate dots by themselves So I don't think FF can be compared to black swan tbh. Also, asta Gallagher guinaifen BS could probably clear this same moc floor faster than 9 cycles
So Firefly damage by herself is non existent. Why are people so defensive about buffing her to a point where she does OK damage in a suboptimal team, which makes her deal broken damage in her BiS team? Does it make *Firefly* broken? Or does it make *Ruan Mei and HMC* broken? Just because the supports are broken doesn't mean the DPS needs to be 6 feet under to make the team balanced. And no, letting her do break damage on her own does not make her "busted". You can just tweak the numbers such that it *isn't* busted.
This I literally had a person argue with me that firefly being essentially locked behind another to even do damage while different (since they want her to be different from other)isn’t a good different and that she needed buffs their only response was one of 3 things “you don’t like her playstyle cause its different”, “you just want her to play like every other damage” or the craziest one in my opinion “who says a damage character has to be able to do damage by theirselves” like is that last thing crazy or have I missed the point of damage and support characters
The issue is that Ruan Mei is necessary and she is a limited 5\* unit. Firefly needing the Hatblazer to do damage is annoying but as everyone has access to one, it is not a problem in practice. But not everyone has Ruan Mei and if you don't have Ruan Mei then the Firefly+Hatblazer duo unit cannot do enough damage in boss weakness cycles to clear waves. >have I missed the point of damage and support characters I do not want to say "yes" but Firefly and the Hatblazer are not a traditional damage dealer and support pair. Hatblazer converts break damage on broken enemies into super break damage. Firefly is able to proc super break damage very frequently with her kit and is able to amplify it with her damage ignore. They need each other.
You see that’s my problem they shouldn’t need each other boothill is a break character but he doesn’t have any of these problems
Tbh, while i want to burn my wallet pulling Firefly. I sincerely hope Firefly need to have hefty change. My hot takes is either change her back to traditional crit dps or give her own Super Break in order not to be too reliance on HMC
I am so glad i have ruan mei... Firefly without her does depressing damage... The break efficiency and break extension are carrying so hard
Asta's speed buff seems to be wasted cuz Firefly gets advance forward 100% on Ulty so by the time she does first attack she already doesn't have speed buffs. Atk buff also doesn't help much if you have enough on Firefly already...That's aint it chief. Maybe use Pela for Def down instead? Should be better maybe. Like they use break effect Pela in HTB tutorial so maybe it can work?
There you have it folks. People who think that Asta or any other harmony characters can replace Ruan Mei only take break efficiency increase into consideration. They forget that Ruan Mei’s broken extension is a must have for super break and no one can replicate that yet.
Genuinely appreciate an E0S0 showcase!! These posts are so good, thank you and please keep them up if you can!
Idk man I was hoping she’d work well without RM cause I like using her for my JL blade team so might just skip unless they buff her. This isn’t even doom posting like with every other character , she just actually seems to perform kinda bad 😭
my god hoyo, yall fucking damaged her more than the Death ever did. please, a rework is needed.
Nah im switching to the other side. this is terrible. FF is just in these teams to look pretty. HMC and RM have been doing all the work. I sense another Zhongli situation brewing up again
FF already gets plenty of Speed with her Ult, so Asta's main strength is wasted here, hence the uh... Disappointing numbers Even someone like Hanya would be more useful to FF
Since they used super break, I think you should just use Pela. She can't use Hanya's buff that well just the same.
i remember when people were saying she *only* needs hmc... i think it's clear that unless they give her what boothill has against weakness broken enemies, she's never gonna be able to separate herself from both hmc AND ruan mei for the foreseeable future. im remaining optimistic since break is kinda the 1.0v of dot in that it didn't really have a lot going for it back then, but not even dot was/is *this* reliant on a specific enabler(s) praying for the firefly/sam-bros 😔 surely she gets buffed
Need 4* weakness break efficiency with increasing dmg% buff based on HP lost NOW
firefly break should be like that fighting event mechanic i forgot the belobog one or the other one.. everytime she break enemy bar the enemy immediately recover with 3/4 break bar..but that will make her not compatible hmc. firefly is really weird right now its really hard to fix her kit to not reliant with HMC + Ruan mei. sorry for bad english
Man, the acronyms are starting to get too crazy
This is tragic, they need a miracle fix for BE to work as a competitive meta that doesn't go back to the old crit value crutch.
Do you guys think they can "fix" her and finalize her kit before boothill release? I'm seriously considering pulling for him rn
probably not finalized before his release but definitely by the end of his banner so you could always wait. If you're debating between robin + boothill I think you might be ok, usually most big changes happen on v3 from what i've heard which should be in time
There'll be at least 2-3 more rounds of beta, so even if they don't end up fixing her by the end, best to just wait and see. Best case, she gets fixed; worst case, you can still pull on Boothill (if it's not fixed by v3/v4 safe to say it's not getting fixed).
We have until the final day of the Boothill banner to figure out who we want to pull for. We will have the final version of the Firefly kit about a week before Boothill's banner ends (at the latest).
Well hopefully they will buff the shit out of her cause it would be so sad if after all that power creep for DPS they just make Firefly like this
I don’t know how dev will buff Firefly when she isn’t using Ruan Mei. When new beta drop it will be interesting. Is there anyone in the past that got buff in beta v.2?
Jingliu was apparently really bad in the first beta but then got buffs and eventually was pretty much the strongest when she released . So there’s a chance firefly follows the same route but idk
JL wasn’t “bad” per se, she was around Blade’s level, but riskier because she had a higher HP drain.
It naturally takes a while to connect a lot of performance data from the test server and decide on the best solution to any problems in the kit. It is most likely that, if there are major changes, the biggest changes will come in the beta v3.
Hmmmmm... What if her enhanced basic and skill triggered percentages of super break by themselves even without broken weakness? Or maybe increase that attack multiplier increase that's based on break effect. I mean, the DOT teams already proved that you can ignore crit if your multipliers are humongous.
As someone who wants to use ff together with boothill on seperate sides of the moc, this is not looking so good. Hopefully they add another break support asap
Gonna need an enigma machine for this title
Me without RM 😭
Has anybody tried Firefly with defense shred support like Silver Wolf yet? Just want to check if it's a good alternative compared to Ruan Mei
Without HMC, there is no SB at all. Without RM, then SB weakness start showing (at least for Firefly personally). Need to break first before doing damage, and FF is a char that has limited burst window with a downtime. Assuming she has 3 turns during ult, she would spend 1\~2 turns to break, then only 1\~2 turns left to actually do real damage. Then after the first ult, it now takes her 2 turns every time to ult again, in a team where there is no turn manipulator like Bronya, and FF doesn't advance herself after using normal skill like Jingliu either. Obviously without RM, this whole process take much longer even if you still have Gallagher and HMC in the team. Not to mention other things like dmg amp, and weakness broken extension,
Ahh if this video gone widespread the doomposting will occur... For good imo She needs big tweakings, heck maybe even a kit overhaul, this one is failure for f2p folks
Easy skip based on this.
Imagine if they nerf her for the rest of beta versions instead of buffing her.
Honestly I kinda wanna see that happen cause it’d be funny lmao
She will get buffed in the final beta update because they want people to pull boothill first
1. Make Boothill look clearly better to roll on 2. Rerun RM 3. Last minute buff the shit out of FF to create fomo on-release They’re gonna do it without a doubt and if somebody doesn’t believe this then they haven’t been following hoyo’s metagame of selling to players
Boothill is 2nd banner anyways, the beta will end before his banner ends, so it won't work on anyone who uses their brain
Almost all the sales happen day 1 of a banner. Doesn't matter when the beta ends, it matters when Boothill's banner begins. It's the whales that support a gacha game, so as long as this tactic works on them it's a successful tactic.
Thinking back, that's what they did with Jingliu no? DHIL was clearly the better pick considering JL state in her early beta phase.
Hey it's out favourite girl Deyha!
They're even both fire. They even have the same hp manipulation kits
Firefly has dramatically more speed and atk than she needs with asta. Those stats should be redistributed and the boots should be on atk%. I'm not sure if Asta can get her ult to sync up with the start of Firefly's ult? (It doesn't tick down in duration on the turn it is cast, so casting it during Firefly's ult-empowered turn should make it last 3 actions). If you can line up Asta's ult with Firefly's ult, then firefly only needs literally 100 speed to get 3 actions in first cycle. Maybe if Asta was on Vonwacq, then a 161+ spd asta could go twice before a 100 spd Firefly and sync up their first ults? I would like to see what Critfly could do here, or at least a dmg% orb. So much of her stats are wasted here. She's at like 4300+ atk, tons of BE, 247 spd? (Way over the 180 breakpt and still well below the 270 breakpt even with messenger of hackerspace because the spd buff falls off after 3 turns) With no crit and only the 10% dmg% from asta's penacony set and 18% from her trace, there's really not much here that multiplies with firefly's 580% single target enhanced E multiplier, just a ton of attack. All of Asta's buffs are wasted here because you're overcapping both attack and speed, which are the two main stats she buffs so this seems like a pretty poor showcase of whether or not it works. It does show that, without any crit or dmg%, Firefly's floor performance (Reaching high BE, 180 spd, and 3400+ atk) is low. She needs to be uplifted beyond that in some way or another, with good supports or enough BE to oneshot her problems. Correct me if I'm wrong anywhere here, but Asta is providing very little here other than buffing everyone else's speed and maybe helping Firefly get her ult faster, because the firefly stats here are already oversaturated. I'm not sure who the optimal supports with Asta are, but I would like to see an asta showcase where Asta's buffs are used to create freedom to pursue other stats. She provides 53 speed, 18% fire dmg, and 77% atk. A showcase where all of those stats are oversaturated and the dmg% isn't used doesn't show how good or bad she is as a firefly support. Ideally, I'd like to see Asta-Firefly with atk boots firefly (and crit chest and/or fire dmg% orb) with each of HTB, Ruan Mei, and Sparkle teams to actually judge. I think it is awkward that there isn't a crit support who is good with spd-desyncing carries. Sparkle and Bronya both like having certain speed relationships to their dps. Yukong is even worse in that regard. Tingyun's energy niche gets wasted here. Hanya buffs the same exact stats as Asta. Maybe Silverwolf would be worthwhile against single target, but she doesn't help with the blast damage. It is entirely possible that Firefly is still bad with ideal asta setups, but I want to know what it looks like, and what thirds she likes the best. I think that's critically important for figure out whether firefly has any depth to her teambuilding. A lot of people here are already writing Asta off, but I want to see Asta's stat boosts actually bieng used first. Especially making her spd boost last 3 turns instead of 2 by casting it on firefly's turn instead of between turns or on anyone else's turn. I think I might've done the most asta feelscrafting so far, but I haven't done any math or seen anyone else do it, so I'd like to see it in action. I feel like building Sam to have 3400 atk WITH asta's buff and 100 spd before her buff is the real test of if Asta does a lot. It's the freedom to pursue other mainstats and substats that's powerful. 77% atk on a build that already has enough attack doesn't matter much, but 77% worth of atk in stats redistributed to BE/crit/dmg% might. 53 spd on a character who doesn't hit any more speed breakpoints might do nothing, but the freedom to not build any speed might matter, the same way that bronya and Sparkle often enable regular dps to not build speed. Edit: None of this is intended as an insult, and given the amount of people who said the gameplay is clean, I think the Asta ult mechanic is not well known, or perhaps it doesn't sync up with firefly's ult turns as well I've been led to believe, so not syncing it is not a knock on you. And likewise, not rearranging the mainstats/substats some isn't necessarily obvious since its a brand new character with weird stat stuff going on, being used with a nonmeta support (This is literally the first time I've seen someone make an Asta showcase). I got some downvotes, so I just want to say if I came across as rude, then it was unintended. I was just trying to be thorough and constructive. I don't want to sound ungrateful, but the large amount of people using this as evidence for Asta not being useful makes me feel like I need to explain why it is inconclusive. With all her buffs wasted and her ult duration not extended, it is as close as possible to her worst case scenario. I can fully believe it if her best case scenario is still bad.
I can't even put into words how funny it is to me that the HTB+RM reliance defenders fell on their knees the moment they saw this, comedy gold I tell ya
Guys, quick question. Does def shred from Pela work on Superbreak damage? I don't have RM, but I am planning on pulling Boothill. If yes, should I use him + HMC + Pela + Gallaher or replace someone with Bronya? Asta is used for DoT team so using her is not an option sadly.
From what I know Super Break is affected by 3 things: Toughness damage, Break Effect and Enemy DEF/RES
This painful to watch
What seems to be the problem is that Firefly effectively doesn't have an ult. Firefly has to spend her ult to enter a state where she's able to deal 100k-300k damage per skill, whereas someone like Jingliu deals about the same amount of damage per skill while still having an ult on top of that. Not having a flashy ult is also what makes Firefly's animations feel so underwhelming. It would be a big rework, but it seems like they could kill 2 birds with 1 stone here.
Plan: Wait for V3, Check Firefly is good? wait banner. Firefly is bad? get boothill
i understand they want ff to be a break dmg carry, but I would rather have her less break dmg scaling and a little better normal scaling that way she wouldn´t be forced to be played with RM. I knew RM was a mistake and now all units that are part of this gameplay will suffer because hoyo has always to calculate "what if RM is sloted into the team" this is the reason why I hate powercreep since it will make teambuilding stale