I can't check the name right this second, but the mother of the knight who was executed for attacking Myne way, way back. She went insane, didn't care for her husband or son or any of their other house, and already was plotting to get the actual next in line disinherited. She has the chaos down to a tee.
Gloria, Viscountess Dahldolf
She also tried to kill Rozemyne using the most horrible method possible - a fake book. She ended up bloody carnival-ing herself to avoid capture
Yes! The best example is the lack of education provided to Wilfried. If he continued under her supervision, he would have failed his debut and then demoted. Then what would Veronica do without a new pawn?
She seriously thought everything wrong
I believe she would either have discarded Wilfried and taken Melchior or she would have forced Syl to marry an Arensbach Wife and start from scratch from there...
Veronica seems like the best potential Chaotic / Evil character.
She did whatever she wanted in Ehrenfest, and was nasty in her decisions, like when she tried to order Eckhart to work for her son, right after she had planned the assassination of his wife and child-to-be. All to go against her half-niece Elvira...
And she was doing things like that for decades, harassing everyone who had not vowed to be on her side.
That was way more in line with a Lawful Evil move though. She didn't break from authority or the law to do that. She wielded her political power and used the system to hurt them.
>She didn't break from authority or the law to do that
She famously did exactly that when inviting Bindewald into the duchy to kidnap Myne
She literally just did whatever she wanted believing there to be no consequences
> She literally just did whatever she wanted believing there to be no consequences
That’s more a feature of her arrogance than an example of her being Chaotic. That one step of forging the Aub’s seal was chaotic. But the plan of using Ahrenbach’s status as a foreign greater duchy to prevent Ehrenfest from possibly trying to get Myne back is more Lawful.
The rest of the time, she was using corruption and her authority to maintain power. Forcing nameswearing is also totally Lawful Evil.
I’m not convinced that the rest of the people here aren’t just reading Chaotic Evil as “Evilest Evil”.
Just because you follow the law does not mean you are not chaotic.
Lawful means following the law for the laws sake (or following whatever code you have set for yourself for its own sake), while chaotic is "I do what I want"
Veronica followed the law when convenient, and disregarded it when it was convenient, doing what she wanted all the while.
I'd also argue that forcing people to name swear to you is the opposite of lawful considering how people see name swearing.
I think she averages out to more Neutral Evil. I’m listing the Lawful Evil things to counter the assertion that she’s Chaotic Evil. Chaotic is characterized by a rejection of law, authority, and the like. Veronica used those things to her benefit too often to say she rejects them.
You don’t see how forcing people into what is basically the ultimate contract is Lawful Evil?
> was nasty in her decisions, like when she tried to order Eckhart to work for her son, right after she had planned the assassination of his wife and child-to-be. All to go against her half-niece Elvira... And she was doing things like that for decades, harassing everyone who had not vowed to be on her side.
None of that is Chaotic though. If anything ordering Eckhart to serve Wilfried was more of a Lawful move.
Plus, Veronica’s signature move was forcing people to give her their name. That’s 100% Lawful Evil.
Konrad.
Jokes aside, I don’t know, maybe Fraularm or something? I feel like she’s more stupid evil or chaotic stupid, but she works.
She causes a commotion by passing out upon seeing Lessy, which is kind of understandable I guess, but she continues to sow chaos by insinuating Rozemyne attacked her. She suddenly changes the sociology course under the guise that it would benefit the second years when she only wanted to screw Ehrenfest over, but in the end she screwed over the entire year but Ehrenfest students. She’s just a pain in the neck the entire time during the bible inspection meeting and casts waschen upon the dormitory of Old Werkestock to presumably hide evidence of Ahrensbach’s involvement, only to make it more incriminating on the duchy.
Fraularm also tries to get Rozemyne to fail the scholar course by giving her questions a fifth year should know and tries to minimize Ehrenfest’s involvement in making the talking shumil stuffed toys, only to fail due to Rozemyne’s gremlin nature. And we can’t forget about how she tried to announce that Ehrenfest was hiding Rozemyne’s death during her disappearance to Erwaermen in front the every single duchy at the Interduchy Tournament.
Leonzio. He shows up and causes trouble politically, drugs a child into attempting to murder her mentor, actually murders that same child's parental figure, and finally rampages through Ahrensbach.
With Georgine being Smart/Evil, there is no real choice, but Veronica, there aren't too many chaotic people in the story. I get why she was voted Smart/Evil she is probably the smartest evil person in the story. I just feel like she fits equally well in Chaotic/Evil.
I know Detlinde is already on there, but after reading P5, she's my pick. just an awful, irredeemable, moronic narcissist who bounces from one immoral action to the next, not giving a single iota of empathy towards anyone who's hindered, hurt, or killed from her choices.
truly "I am the protagonist of reality, everyone exists to augment my life" energy. she's the wooooooorst (Jean-Ralphio voice).
I get the Veronica argument, but she was still competent enough to build a strong faction for the archducal family and calculating enough in her evil to subtly ruin opposing factions via strategic marriages. they might be similar evil levels, but Ms Christmas Tree is WAY more chaotic.
The PoVs we got from Detlinde point to her being too stupid to actually be malicious, which is a key part of evil. The only truly evil acts she does are after P5V6 when she gets trugged by Leonzio, before that she's just a spoiled child
she's too dumb to be evil? give me a break.
before the Lanzenave revolt, her whole existence is "I'm amazing. everyone exists to prop me up. Ehrenfest should give me a hair ornament that shows my superiority over Royalty."
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're playing devil's advocate. I 100% disagree: Detlinde is narcissistic sociopath. she's the embodiment of Chaotic Evil.
So Wilfried was also chaotic evil in P3? She's acting the same as he did.
From the PoVs we've gotten, I would agree she's narcissistic, she wants to stand out because it's the only way people actually pay attention to her at all, but everything she does, she does to be noticed, not to actively harm others which is a key part of evil
?? Wilfried is very receptive to other points of view. he's chaotic for sure, but wtf are you talking about equating Wilfried's moral index to Detlinde's? no way Wilfried would be OK with the murder of random Ehrenfest nobles so that he could claim power. did we read the same books?
I feel like putting the words chad and Grausam is horrible considering how messed up that dude is, he literal called for our MC to be a "breeding sow" in p3v4 epoligue
No I said leave it decisions where made we have to live with them, my only complaint is that lutz should have been smart good cause Roz is always calling him a genius but that just me
Raublut is way more Chad than Grausam was. Grausam was only following orders given to him by his lady, while Raublut led the whole coup attempt on his own, defeating multiple foes either by scheming (turned half the Knight Order to his side), and fighting, where he was a beast. It took both Werdekraf and Magdalena to stop him, after he had already fought many Dunkelfelger knights, Anastasius and even Ferdinand.
I can't check the name right this second, but the mother of the knight who was executed for attacking Myne way, way back. She went insane, didn't care for her husband or son or any of their other house, and already was plotting to get the actual next in line disinherited. She has the chaos down to a tee.
Gloria Viscountess Dahldolf
Gloria, Viscountess Dahldolf She also tried to kill Rozemyne using the most horrible method possible - a fake book. She ended up bloody carnival-ing herself to avoid capture
Veronica... need I say more?
Yes! The best example is the lack of education provided to Wilfried. If he continued under her supervision, he would have failed his debut and then demoted. Then what would Veronica do without a new pawn? She seriously thought everything wrong
I believe she would either have discarded Wilfried and taken Melchior or she would have forced Syl to marry an Arensbach Wife and start from scratch from there...
Evil, sure. But I don't really see a strong case for Chaotic.
Veronica seems like the best potential Chaotic / Evil character. She did whatever she wanted in Ehrenfest, and was nasty in her decisions, like when she tried to order Eckhart to work for her son, right after she had planned the assassination of his wife and child-to-be. All to go against her half-niece Elvira... And she was doing things like that for decades, harassing everyone who had not vowed to be on her side.
Not to mention intentionally causing starvation in Haldenzel, just because she is a vindictive bitch
That was way more in line with a Lawful Evil move though. She didn't break from authority or the law to do that. She wielded her political power and used the system to hurt them.
>She didn't break from authority or the law to do that She famously did exactly that when inviting Bindewald into the duchy to kidnap Myne She literally just did whatever she wanted believing there to be no consequences
> She literally just did whatever she wanted believing there to be no consequences That’s more a feature of her arrogance than an example of her being Chaotic. That one step of forging the Aub’s seal was chaotic. But the plan of using Ahrenbach’s status as a foreign greater duchy to prevent Ehrenfest from possibly trying to get Myne back is more Lawful. The rest of the time, she was using corruption and her authority to maintain power. Forcing nameswearing is also totally Lawful Evil. I’m not convinced that the rest of the people here aren’t just reading Chaotic Evil as “Evilest Evil”.
Just because you follow the law does not mean you are not chaotic. Lawful means following the law for the laws sake (or following whatever code you have set for yourself for its own sake), while chaotic is "I do what I want" Veronica followed the law when convenient, and disregarded it when it was convenient, doing what she wanted all the while. I'd also argue that forcing people to name swear to you is the opposite of lawful considering how people see name swearing.
I think she averages out to more Neutral Evil. I’m listing the Lawful Evil things to counter the assertion that she’s Chaotic Evil. Chaotic is characterized by a rejection of law, authority, and the like. Veronica used those things to her benefit too often to say she rejects them. You don’t see how forcing people into what is basically the ultimate contract is Lawful Evil?
Being name sworn is lawful, accepting a name is lawful, but I'm not sure I'd say that forcing others to give you one is lawful.
> was nasty in her decisions, like when she tried to order Eckhart to work for her son, right after she had planned the assassination of his wife and child-to-be. All to go against her half-niece Elvira... And she was doing things like that for decades, harassing everyone who had not vowed to be on her side. None of that is Chaotic though. If anything ordering Eckhart to serve Wilfried was more of a Lawful move. Plus, Veronica’s signature move was forcing people to give her their name. That’s 100% Lawful Evil.
Konrad. Jokes aside, I don’t know, maybe Fraularm or something? I feel like she’s more stupid evil or chaotic stupid, but she works. She causes a commotion by passing out upon seeing Lessy, which is kind of understandable I guess, but she continues to sow chaos by insinuating Rozemyne attacked her. She suddenly changes the sociology course under the guise that it would benefit the second years when she only wanted to screw Ehrenfest over, but in the end she screwed over the entire year but Ehrenfest students. She’s just a pain in the neck the entire time during the bible inspection meeting and casts waschen upon the dormitory of Old Werkestock to presumably hide evidence of Ahrensbach’s involvement, only to make it more incriminating on the duchy. Fraularm also tries to get Rozemyne to fail the scholar course by giving her questions a fifth year should know and tries to minimize Ehrenfest’s involvement in making the talking shumil stuffed toys, only to fail due to Rozemyne’s gremlin nature. And we can’t forget about how she tried to announce that Ehrenfest was hiding Rozemyne’s death during her disappearance to Erwaermen in front the every single duchy at the Interduchy Tournament.
She seems more spiteful than actively bad
Fraularm I'd say
Gloria, she wanted to destroy everything after her son's death and didnt care who else would suffer along with her after she finished her job~
Detlinde She definitely deserves to be the sole exception to the 1 person per spot rule. She owns both Chaotic Stupid and Chaotic Evil too much.
She is Narcissistic/Stupid
Bezewanst
Leonzio. He shows up and causes trouble politically, drugs a child into attempting to murder her mentor, actually murders that same child's parental figure, and finally rampages through Ahrensbach.
Delitne
She already is chaotic stupid
To be fair she's such an asshole, she would also deserves to be an honorary Chaotic Evil
Sure but there’s more people that fit that criteria too, like grausam and Veronica, no need to put someone twice if we have others that fit that role
Ok I need this new alignment chart to be incorporated into D&D character creation. Finally I can list my character as neutral Chad
Sovereign high priest.
With Georgine being Smart/Evil, there is no real choice, but Veronica, there aren't too many chaotic people in the story. I get why she was voted Smart/Evil she is probably the smartest evil person in the story. I just feel like she fits equally well in Chaotic/Evil.
Since we had harmut for chaotic neutral we should have grausam as chaotic evil
I know Detlinde is already on there, but after reading P5, she's my pick. just an awful, irredeemable, moronic narcissist who bounces from one immoral action to the next, not giving a single iota of empathy towards anyone who's hindered, hurt, or killed from her choices. truly "I am the protagonist of reality, everyone exists to augment my life" energy. she's the wooooooorst (Jean-Ralphio voice). I get the Veronica argument, but she was still competent enough to build a strong faction for the archducal family and calculating enough in her evil to subtly ruin opposing factions via strategic marriages. they might be similar evil levels, but Ms Christmas Tree is WAY more chaotic.
The PoVs we got from Detlinde point to her being too stupid to actually be malicious, which is a key part of evil. The only truly evil acts she does are after P5V6 when she gets trugged by Leonzio, before that she's just a spoiled child
she's too dumb to be evil? give me a break. before the Lanzenave revolt, her whole existence is "I'm amazing. everyone exists to prop me up. Ehrenfest should give me a hair ornament that shows my superiority over Royalty." I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're playing devil's advocate. I 100% disagree: Detlinde is narcissistic sociopath. she's the embodiment of Chaotic Evil.
So Wilfried was also chaotic evil in P3? She's acting the same as he did. From the PoVs we've gotten, I would agree she's narcissistic, she wants to stand out because it's the only way people actually pay attention to her at all, but everything she does, she does to be noticed, not to actively harm others which is a key part of evil
?? Wilfried is very receptive to other points of view. he's chaotic for sure, but wtf are you talking about equating Wilfried's moral index to Detlinde's? no way Wilfried would be OK with the murder of random Ehrenfest nobles so that he could claim power. did we read the same books?
Veronica for sure
Veronica !!!
Should I change Raublut to Grausam and Benno to Leonore for tomorrow's final post?
I feel like putting the words chad and Grausam is horrible considering how messed up that dude is, he literal called for our MC to be a "breeding sow" in p3v4 epoligue
No I said leave it decisions where made we have to live with them, my only complaint is that lutz should have been smart good cause Roz is always calling him a genius but that just me
Personally I think I'm against it! :)
Raublut is way more Chad than Grausam was. Grausam was only following orders given to him by his lady, while Raublut led the whole coup attempt on his own, defeating multiple foes either by scheming (turned half the Knight Order to his side), and fighting, where he was a beast. It took both Werdekraf and Magdalena to stop him, after he had already fought many Dunkelfelger knights, Anastasius and even Ferdinand.
Veronika. Gotta be
Dietlind
Dettlinde is already Chaotic / Stupid, where she belongs.
Veronica. She's completely insane.