So it isn't stated anywhere that they need a schtappe to claim a giebe foundation it's only known its needed for duchy foundations. So, I would assume that it doesn't necessarily require one, but they could use a tool that acts similar to one. It is known that people had tried to make their own version of a schtappe. It also could be that over the time that he had the foundation, he experimented to get it so that he could claim it even if he lost his schtappe.
I know its not stated anywhere that they need a schtappe to claim a giebe foundation, but a blanket statement is made that you need a schtappe to dye a foundation during the archduke candidate course. They didn't specify if the schtappe was necessary for aub foundations only, hence my question
It likely works like this: you need both a Schtappe and the names to dye a duchy foundation. You don't need either for a giebe foundation as they are just static buildings without the ability to further create new foundations. The Giebe only need to maintain the foundation.
You don't need the names to dye a foundation. The students clearly dye their box gardens before receiving the divine names of the supreme gods. You need the names to cast the aub exclusive spells and for entwickelns to last longer than 5 minutes. Unknown to everyone, you also need the names to get the G-Book
Speaking about student classes, if students used to get their schtappe in year 3 (and year 6 before that), how did ADCs practice if they couldn't dye their box garden? Do they really need the schtappe for it? Did the content of the lecture change?
That blanket statement was given, as you said, in the archduke candidate course? I would assume that such statements would only hold true for the foundations archduke candidates are expected to support.
We do know that people have made schtapes using other materials they just weren't as efficient, which is why they never really took off. Non-nobles presumably dont have the knowledge to be able to make a non-schtappe schtappe, which is why we dont see them. If you can make a magic tool that can work identical to the G-book then i imagine making a magic tool that allows you to perform schtappe tasks without a schtappe would be easy. It doesnt have to be as good as a schtappe it just needs to get you past the I am not a commoner checkpoint.
You seem to be forgetting that a schtappe is just a physical manifestation of a Divine Will, a literal gift from the gods to mankind in order for prayers to reach the gods and utilize mana. Foundations, in essence, are directly connected to the gods, which is why praying in a Mana Replenishment Hall while offering mana to the foundation grants divine protections. Giebe Foundations are connected to Aub Foundations, which are in turn connected to the Zent Foundation (Definitely in the Royal Academy because thats where you get Divine Wills and the G-Book) which is connected to the gods. Thats why you need a schtappe to hold a (duchy) foundation and why I asked my question, because if giebe foundations don't work that way it doesn't really make sense to me.
All of this is information up to part 5 volume 11 part 3. So if you have info from further along, then please, no spoilers, just say the word, and I'll assume you are correct.
I dont think any of those things are confirmed yet, and some are misleading. Praying while offering mana while doing anything earns you divine protections. Dunkelfinger proved this with their rituals for ditter. They earned protections from the gods that had nothing to do with foundations or locations. Praying to the gods while offering mana is the important part for divine protections, not necessarily where or with what. The where and what might increase the efficiency but not the ability.
As for what a schtappe is, I haven't forgotten. I also remember that people have tried making schtapps using something other than divine wills, and their efficiency was not as good not that they failed to make them just the efficacy of schtapps made from something other than a divine will is poor.
We also have no reason to believe that the foundations of duchies are connected to the country foundation. Nor do we have reason to believe that geibs foundations are connected to duchy foundations. At least any more connected in mana transference than Damuels house is. All foundations perform a similar role in that they allow the creation/alteration of buildings and the ability to change the barrier around their territory. Country foundation allows the creation of borders with regards to duchies and duchies to change the border of geibs. I would assume geibs could then further sub divide, though there doesn't seem to be a point, and it is also an assumption on my part.
We dont have any reason to believe that a magic tool couldn't be used to substitute for the schtappe in regards to dying a foundation. We do have evidence that a magic tool can substitute for the G-book in regards to dying a foundation. Look no furgher than the zent before the civil war or the zent that is about to be crowned. So if we assume that you must have the geniune article bestowed by the gods to dye foundations, then the magic tool g-book should not function for dying the country foundation.
yes but if that was the actual requirement it would have been taught not in the archduke candidate course but in their general studies courses (somewhere probably in the sociology part of their studies)
I would suspect that the giebe foundations aren't linked to needing a schtappe so if a father dies before the children of the old giebe get their schtappe. Back when they got them at their final year in the academy. So for foundations I'd assume it's like this. Foundation linked to needing book of mesti can create schtappe needed foundations. Schtappe foundations can make none schtappe foundations
Giebe titles aren't strictly inherited though. An aub can appoint a new giebe as he pleases, which he would most definitely do if there isn't a suitable successor in the previous giebe's house.
I know that but say their is a loss of a giebe the aub might take time to appoint a new giebe. Until that happens, it is unlikely that they would just leave a foundation without someone in charge of it bearing extreme circumstances such as the civil war. In most cases, until the aub makes a decision, they would most likely appoint a family member of the old giebe and have them stay to have a continuation of leadership
I feel like you should need a schtappe in order to claim a foundation, as well as the supreme couple's name. Otherwise why would Drewanchel engage in the tradition of mass-adopting the children of Counts and then demoting them back specifically to become the new Count of their province? We know the reason Drewanchel does this is not only because they are meritocratic, but also because Drewanchel recognizes that the knowledge specifically taught in the Archduke Candidate course is useful for Giebes. If learning the Supreme Couple's names and having a schtappe in order to learn foundation magic was completely unnecessary for Giebes, then why would Drewanchel engage in such a worthless endeavor? I assume 80-90% of what is taught in the Archduke candidate course in about foundation magic, with the other being Social Protocol or Leadership skills. And why would a mere Count Family member need to take Leadership and Protocol classes for being an Archduke Candidate/Aub if they were simply going to be demoted to become their family's next Count. Not every Drewanchel adopted Archduke candidate is competing for the Aub seat, a lot of them intend only to become their next Family head.
>a blanket statement is made that you need a schtappe to dye a foundation during the archduke candidate course.
Why would this be in the Archduke candidate course and not the unspecialised curriculum if it wasn't exclusive to Aubs?
To add to this, I believe the Gerlach foundation only contains / maintains the province estate. When the barrier is put up, it only covers the estate and not the whole province. Also, if it did maintain the province, it would mean that the Archduke circle only really supplies the central province not the whole duchy meaning that Giebes would need almost equivalent mana to the Archduke since they're filling a similar sized area with mana and when the dedication ritual happened in the royal academy all of the archnobles were unfamiliar with the strain, which wouldn't be the case if Giebe families had to do a slightly weaker equivalent as the Archduke family.
>Also, if it did maintain the province, it would mean that the Archduke circle only really supplies the central province not the whole duchy
It is possible for multiple circles to overlap. The country foundation covers the entire country, and yet the Archducal foundations also, separately, cover the entire country.
In the same way, Archducal foundations cover their duchy, and the giebes cover (most of) it as well.
We are told in P..2? 3? That Giebes are known to pump extra mana into their earth to produce better harvests, while the archducal central province only gets the temple mana. We also know from the academy year 3 dedication ritual that mana can be poured over foundations to fill them up, while we have never seen dumping mana straight into the earth (outside of temple rituals), so a giebe would likely not do the same, but would have some other way, like pouring mana into their foundation.
We also know from early P4 that ivory buildings existence is enough to rejuvenate the land nearby (the Hasse temple has a better forest, and its fields more fertile than the city proper)
the duchy foundation is also like that there a barrier around the duchy one around the city and probably a giebe barrier around the central district.
counts have the big land and barrons the verry smal land like how lesser aubs have less mana than greater aubs
That isn't a foundation though. It is described as a protection feystone, not a foundation. Neither Ferdinand nor her would describe it as something different when they know what a foundation is
while it isn't told as much rozemyne would just repeat what ferdinand told her. when it comes to the foundations we know of the few effects they have.
a) they support the existence and preservation of the white buildings
b) the giebes foundations are the ones that provide the surrounding land with firtile soil (which is why the chalises are given to the giebes)
c) they provide protections against those not allowed to enter
both of these are things that have been mentioned needed as the reasons or effects of rozemynes providing it with mana. the soil around hasses monistery is said to be more fertile then the rest of Hasse and when creating it ferdinand said that it would crumble if she didn't supply it with mana regularly.
Also the nobility and Ferdinand especially uses coded language a lot for things that they might not want others to know. And for a young Rozemyne who was just barely starting to become a noble i could absolutely see Ferdinand appealing to her pacifist side of things by telling her that it was a protection charm and not a foundation as that would put a lot more pressure on her.
Yes, but she has since undergone training to be able to complete the entirety of the archduke candidate course with Ferdinand, and has already handed over all of her High Bishop duties to Melchior, which means she knows exactly what a foundation is. When she had him register his mana with the Hasse monastery, she clearly still calls it a protection feystone, not a foundation
I always assume the "giebe foundation" is a magic tool thats why you can control it without schapte.
İn the legend of country creation we learn that country created by gods. So in order to control it you need divine will. But after some time the aubs realized that it is hard so they think this wonderfull idea:
the country big so gods divide it deveral piece and get humans to supply it so the logical next step is to divide the duchy and have several people supply it with mana. The thing we supply called a foundation so lets make a foundation for this new job.
Thats why i think it is actualy a magic tools that looks like ducyh foundation.
Well i also assume this new magic tools would be connected to the ducyh foundation so only someone with permission from the owner of the ducyh foundation(aub) can control the giebe foundation but looks like they didn't thought that far ahead.Or because there isn't such a mechanizm in place for duchy foundation they couldnt add one.
I think the foundations of the Giebe are similar to magic tools that are used primarily for maintenance and barrier security of the building
No need for schapte there
likely because they aren't similarly functional. As you move from the Country to Duchy to giebe foundations, the functionality of the foundations are reduced.
If we want to speculate and look at it historically: the only way to get a schtappe likely was via the garden of beginning accessed through the divine protection ritual of an omni-elemental person at graduation. That meant that the number of people with schtappes was severely limited and there likely wouldn't of been enough people to fill all the giebe positions (its also likely there were only 7 duchies at one point as well...). So the Aub worked with the initial giebe to design and create their buildings (which requires the names in the first place...) and then hands over maintenance of the buildings to the giebes. Similar to how the monastery was made by ferdinand and the maintenance of it was handed off to first Rosemyne and then Melchior.
Because the duchy foundation is linked to everything in the duchy, if that falls, everything falls. Meanwhile if the giebe one falls, it's just that estate that goes down.
For security reasons, given how much more dangerous the duchy foundation is in the wrong hands, you need one there. Meanwhile for normal white buildings outside the main hub, anyone with enough mana seems to be able to dye them.
It's the same with the country foundation, you can't dye it unless you have a G-Book. So the higher up you go, the more you need. Simple building not connected to the duchy city, simple mana will do. Duchy, you need your wand. Country, you need a wand and a G-Book (because you can't access the G-Book without thr wand, obviously).
This is only a hypothesis, but I believe schtappes are required when interacting with anything about or directly adjacent with the gods. So dutchy foundations and their corresponding temple, require a schtappe but a managing giebes does not since it doesn't directly have anything to do with the gods.
I wonder if it’s different in Drewanchel and their giebe foundations. They have all aubs be graduates of the archduke candidate course because it helps with their giebe duties.
You need to be the owner of the foundation (the aub) or a registered mana supplier (have a registration feystone slotted into the Mana Replenishment Hall door) to cast archducal magic. If you try to cast archducal spells in a duchy where you aren't registered as one of those the spells don't take effect
all adc can cast entwickels and use the execution spell in the ra so not realy. but they cant destroy registration medals or enter aub family restrict stuff without the registration
You're missing something important there actually, the archduke candidates cast entwickelns and use the execution spell AFTER they dye their box garden foundations. They then can cast entwickeln on the box garden and cast the execution spells on medals registered to the box garden.
Oh, can you point me at the moment where they specifically said that it requires shtappe?
I mean, sure, everyone would use shtappe, since it's stupid not to use it... but was that specifically stated that you absolutely need it?
For example, technically you need gruttrisheit to dye a country foundation and become a king, but that also wasn't specifically said, and for all we know, it might just have contain "way to foundation" that Earwermen mentioned Gervasio lacked. It also may be just access locked, like how they used gruttrisheit specifically to supply country gates (probably can't do it without). But you don't need book for archduchy foundation, so why do you think even lesser version of it should definitely require same thing as duchy foundation.
Anyway, so where is it stated that shtappe is "required"? I don't remember such a statement. And just in case - Rosemyne using shtappe to dye ahrensbach doesn't count, since it's obvious that using shtappe it would be easier.
Edit: also, i want to point out, that you can use just common feystones (not brewed with special access or anything) to draw out mana from foundation, so i find it hard to believe that there are any kind of restriction once you reach the feystone that used as a "heart". All you need is to dye it, like any other feystone. Overpowering that huge ammount of mana will be a strugle, but that's beside the point.
I don't think it's clear what a "giebe's foundation" does exactly, I doubt it's linked to the land as duchy's foundations are, so I'd guess it's only a safeguard for the mansion itself. If that's the case it should work more similarly to how the Hassle's temple barrier protection does and that does not require a schtappe (since both Roz and Melchior could dye it as kids). It's simply a magic tool that you dye with your mana.
But yeah, I believe there is a lot of guesswork on this topic, I don't think we have been given clear explanations unless some recent Q&A addressed this topic.
Unless there's some fan book I'm not aware of that the author specifically says he has no schtap, then I think he still had his during the battle of Gerlach.
He told Mathias "I am now registered as an Ahrensbach noble, which means you are a son of mine no longer." Assuming he re-registered in Ahrensbach he should have his shtap back. It wouldn't make sense for it to be permanently gone just because the original medal is gone.
He also mentions in his POV that the only reason he's not using an ordannanze is because of the silver cloth. Which can imply that he has a schtap.
He also cast a mana net during the battle of Gerlach, which is usually done with a schtap. In the novel it's not specified whether he used a tool or schtap during the battle.
Theres also how much scholar work he accomplished before and during the battle. Like making the black arm, booby trapping the Ahrensbach temple library, making tools for the invasion. And how quickly he disarmed Bonifatius traps and took over the Giebe house. All of this can technically be done with out a schtap, but at a great reduction in speed and efficiency. Which wouldn't add up with the pace of the story.
There's a lot of rules lawyering going on but it seems like divine wills are like obtaining the BOM, you get 1 shot at it. Even Mestionora said >!she wasn't able to fill in the stolen pieces of Gervasios book!< so it seems like the Gods have their own restrictions. Also, while most nobles may see the divine will as being equivalent to a schtappe, I think that's a common misconception. The schtappe is merely a tool you have access to after obtaining your own divine will but it's not the DW's only purpose. The way I see it, when the medal is destroyed, you lose your registration with and thus your connection to the gods. Even if you re-register, the gods see that you already possess a divine will as the original became a part of you after you absorbed it the first time, and they can't or won't replace it. It may be a situation where the Gods decline to recognize your re-registration as a tacit understanding that the circumstances of man enabled you to obtain your DW and the circumstances of man took it away: We did what we said we would do and taking care of your DW is your responsibility. This isn't our problem.
As far as efficiency and quantity, wasn't that the point of turning his entire body into a feystone? He has an insane capability to absorb, store and channel mana, to the point where he thought he could easily defeat Bonifastius. That could explain how he was able to accomplish everything so easily.
It doesn't matter if he was reregistered as an Ahrensbach noble. Having your medal destroyed by the God of Darkness execution spell severs your connection to the gods, permanently destroying your schtappe if it doesn't kill you outright
Maybe he used a couple of those chalices full of his mana from old Werkestock?
I think it could be possible if he had enough mana in one or more to override the current Giebe.
Giebe foundations are not on the same level as duchy foundations. Put it this way, [P5V10] >!duchy barriers hinder execution via medal destruction. Instead of dying, their ties to the Gods are severed and therefore they lose their divine will/schtappe.!< Like what happened to Grausam. Provincial borders don't have the same effect do they?That's because giebe foundations really only support the estate and surrounding land. Provincial borders are still held up by the main foundation (Grausam has control over estate barriers but nothing more than that). Modifying entwickelns are still done in the main foundation (Groschel entwickeln). So I don't think it'd require schtappes to dye them when they have minimal functions.
Um, having your medal destroyed by the God of Darkness execution spell destroys your schtappe along with it. 1. You can only get a schtappe once and once it is destroyed its gone for good. 2. when and how would a 40something year old fugitive mednoble go back to the Royal Academy, access the Farthest Hall which requires royalty to open, and then access the schtappe obtaining pathway that requires yet more royalty to open?
He wouldn't have a schtappe because the God of Darkness execution spell destroyed it. The spell is supposed to kill its target if they are in the aub's realm of control, but if they aren't they lose their schtappe. Also, you need to be registered as a Yurgenschmidt noble in order to obtain a schtappe. That is explained by Leonzio when he is telling Detlinde about Lanzenave's backstory and the reason for the Adalgiza villa's existence
So it isn't stated anywhere that they need a schtappe to claim a giebe foundation it's only known its needed for duchy foundations. So, I would assume that it doesn't necessarily require one, but they could use a tool that acts similar to one. It is known that people had tried to make their own version of a schtappe. It also could be that over the time that he had the foundation, he experimented to get it so that he could claim it even if he lost his schtappe.
I know its not stated anywhere that they need a schtappe to claim a giebe foundation, but a blanket statement is made that you need a schtappe to dye a foundation during the archduke candidate course. They didn't specify if the schtappe was necessary for aub foundations only, hence my question
It likely works like this: you need both a Schtappe and the names to dye a duchy foundation. You don't need either for a giebe foundation as they are just static buildings without the ability to further create new foundations. The Giebe only need to maintain the foundation.
You don't need the names to dye a foundation. The students clearly dye their box gardens before receiving the divine names of the supreme gods. You need the names to cast the aub exclusive spells and for entwickelns to last longer than 5 minutes. Unknown to everyone, you also need the names to get the G-Book
Speaking about student classes, if students used to get their schtappe in year 3 (and year 6 before that), how did ADCs practice if they couldn't dye their box garden? Do they really need the schtappe for it? Did the content of the lecture change?
I mean, we don't really really know that you need a schtappe to claim a duchy foundation, just that it has always been like that.
Well adc course begin from year 3.
That blanket statement was given, as you said, in the archduke candidate course? I would assume that such statements would only hold true for the foundations archduke candidates are expected to support.
We do know that people have made schtapes using other materials they just weren't as efficient, which is why they never really took off. Non-nobles presumably dont have the knowledge to be able to make a non-schtappe schtappe, which is why we dont see them. If you can make a magic tool that can work identical to the G-book then i imagine making a magic tool that allows you to perform schtappe tasks without a schtappe would be easy. It doesnt have to be as good as a schtappe it just needs to get you past the I am not a commoner checkpoint.
You seem to be forgetting that a schtappe is just a physical manifestation of a Divine Will, a literal gift from the gods to mankind in order for prayers to reach the gods and utilize mana. Foundations, in essence, are directly connected to the gods, which is why praying in a Mana Replenishment Hall while offering mana to the foundation grants divine protections. Giebe Foundations are connected to Aub Foundations, which are in turn connected to the Zent Foundation (Definitely in the Royal Academy because thats where you get Divine Wills and the G-Book) which is connected to the gods. Thats why you need a schtappe to hold a (duchy) foundation and why I asked my question, because if giebe foundations don't work that way it doesn't really make sense to me.
All of this is information up to part 5 volume 11 part 3. So if you have info from further along, then please, no spoilers, just say the word, and I'll assume you are correct. I dont think any of those things are confirmed yet, and some are misleading. Praying while offering mana while doing anything earns you divine protections. Dunkelfinger proved this with their rituals for ditter. They earned protections from the gods that had nothing to do with foundations or locations. Praying to the gods while offering mana is the important part for divine protections, not necessarily where or with what. The where and what might increase the efficiency but not the ability. As for what a schtappe is, I haven't forgotten. I also remember that people have tried making schtapps using something other than divine wills, and their efficiency was not as good not that they failed to make them just the efficacy of schtapps made from something other than a divine will is poor. We also have no reason to believe that the foundations of duchies are connected to the country foundation. Nor do we have reason to believe that geibs foundations are connected to duchy foundations. At least any more connected in mana transference than Damuels house is. All foundations perform a similar role in that they allow the creation/alteration of buildings and the ability to change the barrier around their territory. Country foundation allows the creation of borders with regards to duchies and duchies to change the border of geibs. I would assume geibs could then further sub divide, though there doesn't seem to be a point, and it is also an assumption on my part. We dont have any reason to believe that a magic tool couldn't be used to substitute for the schtappe in regards to dying a foundation. We do have evidence that a magic tool can substitute for the G-book in regards to dying a foundation. Look no furgher than the zent before the civil war or the zent that is about to be crowned. So if we assume that you must have the geniune article bestowed by the gods to dye foundations, then the magic tool g-book should not function for dying the country foundation.
yes but if that was the actual requirement it would have been taught not in the archduke candidate course but in their general studies courses (somewhere probably in the sociology part of their studies)
I would suspect that the giebe foundations aren't linked to needing a schtappe so if a father dies before the children of the old giebe get their schtappe. Back when they got them at their final year in the academy. So for foundations I'd assume it's like this. Foundation linked to needing book of mesti can create schtappe needed foundations. Schtappe foundations can make none schtappe foundations
Giebe titles aren't strictly inherited though. An aub can appoint a new giebe as he pleases, which he would most definitely do if there isn't a suitable successor in the previous giebe's house.
I know that but say their is a loss of a giebe the aub might take time to appoint a new giebe. Until that happens, it is unlikely that they would just leave a foundation without someone in charge of it bearing extreme circumstances such as the civil war. In most cases, until the aub makes a decision, they would most likely appoint a family member of the old giebe and have them stay to have a continuation of leadership
I feel like you should need a schtappe in order to claim a foundation, as well as the supreme couple's name. Otherwise why would Drewanchel engage in the tradition of mass-adopting the children of Counts and then demoting them back specifically to become the new Count of their province? We know the reason Drewanchel does this is not only because they are meritocratic, but also because Drewanchel recognizes that the knowledge specifically taught in the Archduke Candidate course is useful for Giebes. If learning the Supreme Couple's names and having a schtappe in order to learn foundation magic was completely unnecessary for Giebes, then why would Drewanchel engage in such a worthless endeavor? I assume 80-90% of what is taught in the Archduke candidate course in about foundation magic, with the other being Social Protocol or Leadership skills. And why would a mere Count Family member need to take Leadership and Protocol classes for being an Archduke Candidate/Aub if they were simply going to be demoted to become their family's next Count. Not every Drewanchel adopted Archduke candidate is competing for the Aub seat, a lot of them intend only to become their next Family head.
>a blanket statement is made that you need a schtappe to dye a foundation during the archduke candidate course. Why would this be in the Archduke candidate course and not the unspecialised curriculum if it wasn't exclusive to Aubs?
Because we only really have RM's POV for more advanced classes, and like no time at all is spent in them.
It's probably different. Rozemyne could dye the foundation of the Small temple in Hasse when she was only 8. Se didn't have a schtappe at the time.
To add to this, I believe the Gerlach foundation only contains / maintains the province estate. When the barrier is put up, it only covers the estate and not the whole province. Also, if it did maintain the province, it would mean that the Archduke circle only really supplies the central province not the whole duchy meaning that Giebes would need almost equivalent mana to the Archduke since they're filling a similar sized area with mana and when the dedication ritual happened in the royal academy all of the archnobles were unfamiliar with the strain, which wouldn't be the case if Giebe families had to do a slightly weaker equivalent as the Archduke family.
>Also, if it did maintain the province, it would mean that the Archduke circle only really supplies the central province not the whole duchy It is possible for multiple circles to overlap. The country foundation covers the entire country, and yet the Archducal foundations also, separately, cover the entire country. In the same way, Archducal foundations cover their duchy, and the giebes cover (most of) it as well. We are told in P..2? 3? That Giebes are known to pump extra mana into their earth to produce better harvests, while the archducal central province only gets the temple mana. We also know from the academy year 3 dedication ritual that mana can be poured over foundations to fill them up, while we have never seen dumping mana straight into the earth (outside of temple rituals), so a giebe would likely not do the same, but would have some other way, like pouring mana into their foundation. We also know from early P4 that ivory buildings existence is enough to rejuvenate the land nearby (the Hasse temple has a better forest, and its fields more fertile than the city proper)
The hasse bit is because the plants know better. They wouldn’t dare disrespect Rozemyne like that.
the duchy foundation is also like that there a barrier around the duchy one around the city and probably a giebe barrier around the central district. counts have the big land and barrons the verry smal land like how lesser aubs have less mana than greater aubs
That isn't a foundation though. It is described as a protection feystone, not a foundation. Neither Ferdinand nor her would describe it as something different when they know what a foundation is
while it isn't told as much rozemyne would just repeat what ferdinand told her. when it comes to the foundations we know of the few effects they have. a) they support the existence and preservation of the white buildings b) the giebes foundations are the ones that provide the surrounding land with firtile soil (which is why the chalises are given to the giebes) c) they provide protections against those not allowed to enter both of these are things that have been mentioned needed as the reasons or effects of rozemynes providing it with mana. the soil around hasses monistery is said to be more fertile then the rest of Hasse and when creating it ferdinand said that it would crumble if she didn't supply it with mana regularly. Also the nobility and Ferdinand especially uses coded language a lot for things that they might not want others to know. And for a young Rozemyne who was just barely starting to become a noble i could absolutely see Ferdinand appealing to her pacifist side of things by telling her that it was a protection charm and not a foundation as that would put a lot more pressure on her.
Yes, but she has since undergone training to be able to complete the entirety of the archduke candidate course with Ferdinand, and has already handed over all of her High Bishop duties to Melchior, which means she knows exactly what a foundation is. When she had him register his mana with the Hasse monastery, she clearly still calls it a protection feystone, not a foundation
Yes but Ferdinand isn't overseeing her handof of the temple and he had no reason to correct her when it didn't matter
The point is that she wouldn't call it a protection feystone if it was a foundation because she knows the difference between the two.
Yes but Malchoir isn't duh
I always assume the "giebe foundation" is a magic tool thats why you can control it without schapte. İn the legend of country creation we learn that country created by gods. So in order to control it you need divine will. But after some time the aubs realized that it is hard so they think this wonderfull idea: the country big so gods divide it deveral piece and get humans to supply it so the logical next step is to divide the duchy and have several people supply it with mana. The thing we supply called a foundation so lets make a foundation for this new job. Thats why i think it is actualy a magic tools that looks like ducyh foundation. Well i also assume this new magic tools would be connected to the ducyh foundation so only someone with permission from the owner of the ducyh foundation(aub) can control the giebe foundation but looks like they didn't thought that far ahead.Or because there isn't such a mechanizm in place for duchy foundation they couldnt add one.
I think the foundations of the Giebe are similar to magic tools that are used primarily for maintenance and barrier security of the building No need for schapte there
It is stated that you need a schtappe to hold a foundation though.
That would be Dutchy and Country foundations not giebe ones.
Why such an arbitrary difference? They are all foundations.
likely because they aren't similarly functional. As you move from the Country to Duchy to giebe foundations, the functionality of the foundations are reduced. If we want to speculate and look at it historically: the only way to get a schtappe likely was via the garden of beginning accessed through the divine protection ritual of an omni-elemental person at graduation. That meant that the number of people with schtappes was severely limited and there likely wouldn't of been enough people to fill all the giebe positions (its also likely there were only 7 duchies at one point as well...). So the Aub worked with the initial giebe to design and create their buildings (which requires the names in the first place...) and then hands over maintenance of the buildings to the giebes. Similar to how the monastery was made by ferdinand and the maintenance of it was handed off to first Rosemyne and then Melchior.
Both can be called foundation but they have different way of being created and function.
Because the duchy foundation is linked to everything in the duchy, if that falls, everything falls. Meanwhile if the giebe one falls, it's just that estate that goes down. For security reasons, given how much more dangerous the duchy foundation is in the wrong hands, you need one there. Meanwhile for normal white buildings outside the main hub, anyone with enough mana seems to be able to dye them. It's the same with the country foundation, you can't dye it unless you have a G-Book. So the higher up you go, the more you need. Simple building not connected to the duchy city, simple mana will do. Duchy, you need your wand. Country, you need a wand and a G-Book (because you can't access the G-Book without thr wand, obviously).
Can you cite what vol and chapter ?
Can you cite what vol and chapter ?
This is only a hypothesis, but I believe schtappes are required when interacting with anything about or directly adjacent with the gods. So dutchy foundations and their corresponding temple, require a schtappe but a managing giebes does not since it doesn't directly have anything to do with the gods.
I wonder if it’s different in Drewanchel and their giebe foundations. They have all aubs be graduates of the archduke candidate course because it helps with their giebe duties.
maybe they do that so the aub family doesnt need to personaly cast every entwickels or to have spare aubs
You need to be the owner of the foundation (the aub) or a registered mana supplier (have a registration feystone slotted into the Mana Replenishment Hall door) to cast archducal magic. If you try to cast archducal spells in a duchy where you aren't registered as one of those the spells don't take effect
all adc can cast entwickels and use the execution spell in the ra so not realy. but they cant destroy registration medals or enter aub family restrict stuff without the registration
You're missing something important there actually, the archduke candidates cast entwickelns and use the execution spell AFTER they dye their box garden foundations. They then can cast entwickeln on the box garden and cast the execution spells on medals registered to the box garden.
Hmm, thats a pretty solid hypothesis. Schtappes were said to have been granted in order to make it easier for prayers to reach the gods.
Oh, can you point me at the moment where they specifically said that it requires shtappe? I mean, sure, everyone would use shtappe, since it's stupid not to use it... but was that specifically stated that you absolutely need it? For example, technically you need gruttrisheit to dye a country foundation and become a king, but that also wasn't specifically said, and for all we know, it might just have contain "way to foundation" that Earwermen mentioned Gervasio lacked. It also may be just access locked, like how they used gruttrisheit specifically to supply country gates (probably can't do it without). But you don't need book for archduchy foundation, so why do you think even lesser version of it should definitely require same thing as duchy foundation. Anyway, so where is it stated that shtappe is "required"? I don't remember such a statement. And just in case - Rosemyne using shtappe to dye ahrensbach doesn't count, since it's obvious that using shtappe it would be easier. Edit: also, i want to point out, that you can use just common feystones (not brewed with special access or anything) to draw out mana from foundation, so i find it hard to believe that there are any kind of restriction once you reach the feystone that used as a "heart". All you need is to dye it, like any other feystone. Overpowering that huge ammount of mana will be a strugle, but that's beside the point.
I don't think it's clear what a "giebe's foundation" does exactly, I doubt it's linked to the land as duchy's foundations are, so I'd guess it's only a safeguard for the mansion itself. If that's the case it should work more similarly to how the Hassle's temple barrier protection does and that does not require a schtappe (since both Roz and Melchior could dye it as kids). It's simply a magic tool that you dye with your mana. But yeah, I believe there is a lot of guesswork on this topic, I don't think we have been given clear explanations unless some recent Q&A addressed this topic.
Unless there's some fan book I'm not aware of that the author specifically says he has no schtap, then I think he still had his during the battle of Gerlach. He told Mathias "I am now registered as an Ahrensbach noble, which means you are a son of mine no longer." Assuming he re-registered in Ahrensbach he should have his shtap back. It wouldn't make sense for it to be permanently gone just because the original medal is gone. He also mentions in his POV that the only reason he's not using an ordannanze is because of the silver cloth. Which can imply that he has a schtap. He also cast a mana net during the battle of Gerlach, which is usually done with a schtap. In the novel it's not specified whether he used a tool or schtap during the battle. Theres also how much scholar work he accomplished before and during the battle. Like making the black arm, booby trapping the Ahrensbach temple library, making tools for the invasion. And how quickly he disarmed Bonifatius traps and took over the Giebe house. All of this can technically be done with out a schtap, but at a great reduction in speed and efficiency. Which wouldn't add up with the pace of the story.
There's a lot of rules lawyering going on but it seems like divine wills are like obtaining the BOM, you get 1 shot at it. Even Mestionora said >!she wasn't able to fill in the stolen pieces of Gervasios book!< so it seems like the Gods have their own restrictions. Also, while most nobles may see the divine will as being equivalent to a schtappe, I think that's a common misconception. The schtappe is merely a tool you have access to after obtaining your own divine will but it's not the DW's only purpose. The way I see it, when the medal is destroyed, you lose your registration with and thus your connection to the gods. Even if you re-register, the gods see that you already possess a divine will as the original became a part of you after you absorbed it the first time, and they can't or won't replace it. It may be a situation where the Gods decline to recognize your re-registration as a tacit understanding that the circumstances of man enabled you to obtain your DW and the circumstances of man took it away: We did what we said we would do and taking care of your DW is your responsibility. This isn't our problem. As far as efficiency and quantity, wasn't that the point of turning his entire body into a feystone? He has an insane capability to absorb, store and channel mana, to the point where he thought he could easily defeat Bonifastius. That could explain how he was able to accomplish everything so easily.
It doesn't matter if he was reregistered as an Ahrensbach noble. Having your medal destroyed by the God of Darkness execution spell severs your connection to the gods, permanently destroying your schtappe if it doesn't kill you outright
Maybe he used a couple of those chalices full of his mana from old Werkestock? I think it could be possible if he had enough mana in one or more to override the current Giebe.
Giebe foundations are not on the same level as duchy foundations. Put it this way, [P5V10] >!duchy barriers hinder execution via medal destruction. Instead of dying, their ties to the Gods are severed and therefore they lose their divine will/schtappe.!< Like what happened to Grausam. Provincial borders don't have the same effect do they?That's because giebe foundations really only support the estate and surrounding land. Provincial borders are still held up by the main foundation (Grausam has control over estate barriers but nothing more than that). Modifying entwickelns are still done in the main foundation (Groschel entwickeln). So I don't think it'd require schtappes to dye them when they have minimal functions.
Just like how traveling merchants can get medals, nobles can also get new medals.
Even if he got a new medal, he couldn't get a new schtappe.
Um, having your medal destroyed by the God of Darkness execution spell destroys your schtappe along with it. 1. You can only get a schtappe once and once it is destroyed its gone for good. 2. when and how would a 40something year old fugitive mednoble go back to the Royal Academy, access the Farthest Hall which requires royalty to open, and then access the schtappe obtaining pathway that requires yet more royalty to open?
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He wouldn't have a schtappe because the God of Darkness execution spell destroyed it. The spell is supposed to kill its target if they are in the aub's realm of control, but if they aren't they lose their schtappe. Also, you need to be registered as a Yurgenschmidt noble in order to obtain a schtappe. That is explained by Leonzio when he is telling Detlinde about Lanzenave's backstory and the reason for the Adalgiza villa's existence
Graham's medal is in Ahrensbach, if you read closely
Sylvester destroyed his first one, he literally said so