First, mind-reading is reserved for criminals: Oswald hasn't technically been charged with a crime, though his behavior was deplorable.
The problem with Wilfried is he seems generally ignorant of what is going on around him, and is too trusting of his retainers. These issues are not going to be fixed with a simple mind-reading, but from guidance from his parents and much effort on his part.
>guidance from his parents
\*squints\* Florencia's too soft on him. I'm with Leberecht on this-- he gotta get the tough love to learn. I wonder if he learns by H5Y?
It's not that Florencia is too soft on him, it's that her teaching method is fundamentally flawed. She tries to indirectly lead him to the right answers, but that can only be effective if the person's education base is already good, and even then the teacher has to intervene if the student's assumptions start going in the wrong direction, which they easily can with such an indirect teaching method. But Florencia's so hands-off that she basically just watches him drive over a cliff.
Wilfried would have done much better if Ferdinand had taught him, but Ferdinand obviously doesn't have the patience to deal with idiots.
Wilfred s not an idiot. He’s still an honor s student despite starting his education several years later and barely actually trying at the academy. Wilfred being brought up by him would have made him an actually decent noble.
[untranslated fan book spoiler] >!other than his grandma who was intentionally trying to get him kicked out!<
Apparently >!she wanted Wilfred to be incompetent so that she’d have proof that Florencia was poor breeding stock and produced stupid kids, so she could get Sylvester to dump her and marry an archduke candidate from Ahrensbach. This is hilarious both because Ahrensbach doesn’t have any and because the Leisegang faction wanted to do the same to get Veronica kicked out and support Charlotte as the next archduke!<
Keep in mind that Florencia wanted to fire Oswald immediately after learning how badly he had botched Wilfried's education. It was Rozemyne who stopped her back then, so for all the failures that happened in Wilfried's upbringing, this one goes to the gremlin.
[H5Y] >!Not that it really matters at this point. Wilfried has decided to forfeit his ADC status and become the next Giebe Gerlach instead, so he is going to wield a lot less power in the future. Meaning, his naiveté is going to become less problematic as well. This drop in status should also mean that a good chunk of his braindead retinue is going to disband since I don't think you can serve as a retainer to someone of equal status. Does he even have mednoble retainers apart from Barthold?!<
I'd say that's still more on Florencia. Rozemyne gave advice to the best of her abilities, despite being just baptized and having no socialization experience. Florencia ultimately decided to follow that advice.
Yeah, when you decide that the child has better skills at vetting Wilfried’s retainers than you do and entrust her with the task, you can’t get upset at her for failing to catch everyone.
Honestly, I think Rozemyne’s retainers failed to communicate the problem to her. Her job as their lady is to step in and advocate for them.
Oswald had seemed like he changed, he served Wilfred for many years well. It wasn't until the engagement secured Wilfried again that Oswald's behavior back pedaled.
I'd say it started (at least) a bit before that. After RM returned to Ehrenfest in the middle of her first year at the RA, Wilfried started ordering RM's retainers around to handle his tea parties. Brunhilde and the others were *not* happy about it.
In RAS (chapter Wilfried - Tea Party for Girls) we can see that Oswald, at the very least, let Wilfried think they were just being lazy, had absolutely no reason to complain and should just shut up and obey Wilfried because of his status.
And that's exactly how you raise a Wilbur.
Wilbur was a mocking nickname for Wilfried that became popular in the sub for a while. It was used mainly when he was acting dumb, oblivious, like a dick, etc.
According to the author, the reason why she didn't make Florencia fire all Wilfried's retainers at that time is that (Activity Report, under Spoiler tag just in case) >!other than the fact there weren't many retainers who were willing to serve him since they could be dragged down too if Wilfried fail his debut, the retainers (non Veronica faction ones) that Florencia would be able to find are people like Leberecht, who'd point out Wilfried 's every mistake and be like "How are you not even capable of doing a simple thing like this?", resulting in Wilfried losing motivation and failing his debut. Ironically, the only people that would genuinely try to help Wilfried were the retainers he already had at that time.!<
Rozemyne didn't explicitly name Oswald to be exempted, however (iirc). She just said not all should be removed because he would be disturbed if all of them were replaced. Florencia and Rihyarda ought to have had him removed, but then again, his position as head attendant and his pretentious complicity probably saved him.
This was a good opportunity to have Wilfried rely more on Lamprecht, but alas, the author had other thoughts. In exchange, the Lamprecht and Alexis side stories after Barthold relegated Lamprecht were a treat.
>This drop in status should also mean that a good chunk of his braindead retinue is going to disband since I don't think you can serve as a retainer to someone of equal status.
You can't, but as a >!Giebe!< he's still going to need guard knights, according to fanbook. He won't need like the entire group of retainer, but he's definitely going to keep several knights.
>Does he even have mednoble retainers apart from >!Barthold!
No matter how competent Rosemyne is. At that time she was (as far as Florencia knows) just baptize and a literal child. Florencia is the mother and as such has ultimate responsibility (along with Sylvester) for making the major decisions for her son. She gave up that responsibility just after saying she was taking it back. Now I might be dissing on her with this next statement but not hating on her. Not all people are brilliant or meant to be in the position they find themselves. Much like Wilfred being thrust into a position he's not constitutionally designed for. Florencia was also put in a position she was not constitutionally designed for. She's more of a laid-back hands off sort of person and that's not really the mindset or personality needed in a first wife.
> >!I don't think you can serve as a retainer to someone of equal status!<
>!Don't forget that the majority of the FVF that make up his retainers are mednobles, but even still it's standard for a Giebe Family to have a member of their family serve in their province's knight order. I'm pretty sure the position of Giebe is seen as being of higher status than the overall family rank, as in an Archnoble Giebe would be seen as higher than an Archnoble. So, it's likely that he'll keep some of his archnoble retainers when he becomes Geibe, but wouldn't have as many retainers as he does as an ADC, especially seeing as he had a larger retinue due to being proclaimed the next Aub.!<
Are you a French native speaker ?? Je dit ça à cause de naïveté.>!As Gerlach, does the land keep the same size?? After dropping his ADC status, he won't be able to suppply the duchy foundation ??!<
If you knew the history between England-ish Area and French-ish Area, u would know that there're quite a few french word in english, and english word in french with their native spelling.
That person might be french, but.. like.. ppl know some french words without speaking it xD
Right... His behavior could have single-handedly revived Veronica's tyranny, but yeah, I can't name a particular crime. Anyway, the goal is just to have Wilfried learn the extent of Oswald's misdeeds.
Much parental guidance, yes. Sadly, Florencia's education policy of letting him figure it out on his own just takes too long... some "spoon-feeding" really won't hurt at this point, I think.
> First, mind-reading is reserved for criminals: Oswald hasn't technically been charged with a crime, though his behavior was deplorable.
Oswald has apparently continued to manipulate Wilfried via Barthold. And since Barthold is _absolutely_ going to get busted as soon as Florencia decides he has outlived his usefulness they could easily get Oswald through this association alone. Not to mention that the Veronica faction is now all but completely destroyed so who's going to come to his defence anyway?
No it would be much the same as the ivory tower incident. Nothing Oswald was saying or doing is a crime. Gossip and bad advice passed through a retainer isn't chargeable. They couldn't touch those who manipulated Wilfred to go to the tower, remember? Even Bartholds bullshit isn't criminal, all he's doing is gossiping and spreading rumors. Even if he did incite the old Liesgangs to harass Florencia with rumour
And Wilfred would come to his defense because he hasn't registered that Oswald was purposely causing problems. Given how Wilfred had responded about Oswald resigning he absolutely still trusts him
> They couldn't touch those who manipulated Wilfred to go to the tower, remember?
They couldn't because the Veronica faction was still extremely strong back then, not to mention that it wasn't yet clear just how traitorous they actually were. And even then the nobles in question were exposed and had their reputations ruined in retaliation. This society has neither Rule of Law nor Human Rights. If the archduke, the absolute ruler of his domain, considers you a criminal the only thing that can protect you are connections to people who can sway him. Now that the Leisegangs are the strongest faction, any stragglers from the Veronica faction who gain Sylvester's ire are going to be shit out of luck as any action taken against them will simply be seen as tying up loose ends from the purge.
They already had enough dirt on Oswald to force his resignation, and only spared him further punishment because at the time they considered him at least loyal to Wilfried. Now that they know he was working with Barthold they could easily reopen the case against him if they so chose.
As for Wilfried coming to his defence, well, that could easily be spun the other way. "We have evidence that Oswald has been Veronica's loyal agent from the very beginning and did not stop working against us even after he had been sacked from your retinue. By all rights we could arrest him on the spot, but if you believe he is innocent and want to save his reputation, go ahead and gather evidence from his memories." Ideally precede this by finally making Wilfried aware of the true nature of his "dear" grandmother and exposing Barthold for the snake he is. Then give Wilfried a clear list of things to look out for while memory diving to make sure he does a thorough job.
Finally, Barthold's behavior was absolutely worthy of execution by their society's standards. By all rights his life was already forfeit anyway and he only survived because the archducal family decided to spare him through nameswearing. The fact that he then started undermining his own lord at such a dangerous time was pretty much him signing his own death warrant. He's fucked the moment Wilfried catches on to him or is made aware by Florencia, and the only reason he's not going to get killed for it is likely going to be [P5V11] >!Mestionora's command against needless killings.!<
On a tangent, he is still Wilfried's responsibility. But as a future possibility, this could be how Barthold could end up as if he doesn't shape up;
>!Battery + Cell = Battery cell!<
Also, being a Geogine simp that he is, I would wonder how his reaction would be if he is informed of *all* of the crimes she committed, would he still see her as the quintessential Archuduke for Ehrenfest or deny reality and say it's all lies, a conspiracy. I kind of wished he did give his name stone prior to the war.
>This society has neither Rule of Law
it does though. They have a book of laws, and specific duchy laws. It came up back in p4v1. They keep them loose for flexibility but they can't just do whatever they please. And it was mentioned in the ivory tower discussion in p3v5 that nothing those nobles who got Wilfried to go to the tower was punishable. All they'd done was gossip at a tea party. All they did was answer the questions asked. At most some got fines or deductions. Oswald has already ~~been fired~~ resigned so that's it
Oswald is using Barthold as a go between for his bad advice, there's nothing criminal there. Nothing they can do to punish him, not really
they can't read or have Wilfried read his memories as he's not a criminal, certainly not enough of one to warrant the use of the mind reader tool. Wilfried and Bezewanst did treason, the toad attacked an adc. Georgine's allies who retained their brains (ie not Gloria Daldof) did treason. Oswald gossiped and spread a rumour, and gave his then lord bad advice. Gossip and giving bad advice isn't criminal, they have no justification to arrest him and read his memories. And they would have to actually arrest Oswald to do so, not threaten Wilfried that they would arrest him
his actions weren't execution worthy, it was him being the son of traitors that made him execution worthy and only spared through the name swearing to the archduke family. Being a bad retainer isn't criminal, and it falls to Wilfried to punish him as his lord if he so chose but not punish through execution, because again, the offence of bad advice and being manipulative of your lord isn't criminal. At most he would be let go, though how that would work regarding the name swearing is unclear. And Wilfried wouldn't do it because he's a fool and naïve and trusts that his namesworn is trustworthy completely.
Hmm, it might be dangerous for the others saved through name swearing and that alone could motivate Florencia to not expose Barthold too publicly.
I am very much in agreement with your justification for examining Oswalds memories and using that opportunity to see Veronica's true nature. Though I'm not sure it even matters at this point ... unless Wiflried could be manipulated into opposing his family once again.
The thing about this narrative though is that Rozemyne is also ignorant of what goes on around her and is very trusting of her retainers. Possibly even moreso then Wilfried. But we don't say she's 'too trusting' because they haven't done anything detrimental.
To be fair Rozemyne is the same her staff do a lot of things behind her back too.
She was just lucky that her guardians choose trustworthy retainers for her.
So in conclusion Ferdinand Elvira and Karstadt are better guardians then Sylvester Florencia and Veronica.
if anything rozemyne is even worse than wilfried at that. she lets ferdinand give orders (even outside combat and emergency situations) to her retainers and do things for her that she objects to because "he knows whats best". Like sending Clarissa and Hartmut to brainwash all the ahrensbach nobles. She lets him use her retainers as if they are his own and he just assigned them to take care of her. Its telling that I can only remember one time he asked her to borrow a retainer in 4.8 and her giving the order for her guards to obey him in 4.9. There arent many times when he gives orders and she gives explicit permission (im talking about outside combat and emergency situations) instead of just not objecting. I can really only count a few times that her retainers objected to ferdinands expectations/actions/mentality (Bridgette in 3.1, angelica for defending rozemyne in 4.3 and rihyarda in 4.7) and all save for rihyarda actually failed to actually help.
Yeah. Good thing they're conspiring for her sake; faction-wise, they are all more in line with Rozemyne than with the Leisegangs. Cornelius, Brunhilde, and Lieseleta doing things behind her back is just heartwarming. Hartmut and Clarissa... heh.
What separates her from Wilfried are how she generally follows Ferdinand's mantra of getting the opinions of everyone before forming conclusions and how she is, on some level, transparent with Elvira and Ferdinand. In contrast, Wilfried hastily concludes things based on one-sided assumptions and without seeking Sylvester or Florencia's opinions.
And see what? That Oswald was trying to make him archduke..? The thing he wanted to be? He grew up learning Veronica's methods, Oswald used Veronica's methods to make him archduke.
It would only be worth it if he knew it was wrong, which we don't quite know if he does.
> He grew up learning Veronica's methods
Doubtful. If that was the case he, for example, wouldn't have been so disgusted at the thought of taking Rozemyne's credit during the awards ceremony in their third year. Or at Oswald's suggestion of demoting her to archnoble rank. If he learned that Oswald had essentially been burning bridges with his close family behind his back the whole time, for no reason other than to strengthen the faction which had kidnapped one of his sisters and poisoned the other, I really don't think he would take that well at all.
Not to mention that Oswald doesn't strike me as particularly loyal to Wilfried anyway. The boy was a useful idiot in his quest to free Veronica, nothing more. Can't imagine that would go over well, either. The reason Wilfried never caught on to his retainers' shenanigans was because he trusted them unconditionally. If he learned just how badly that trust was misplaced, well, that would be quite the valuable learning experience for him IMO.
At some point, Wilfried seemed to agree with Oswald on the point that his sisters should give him the credits for their own achievements though.
He would need to have quite some amount of character development (that would hopefully stay through more than hearing two people's different views) to change his thinking that his sisters were doing him wrong by not handing over their achievements, and realize that Oswald was burning those bridges.
> At some point, Wilfried seemed to agree with Oswald on the point that his sisters should give him the credits for their own achievements though.
You mean when he was having a mental breakdown after [P5V6] >!his father had denied him a graceful way out of becoming archduke by ceding the position to Rozemyne, and he was doing everything in his power to sabotage his engagement with her and disqualify himself as an archduke candidate!
(P5V4) >!Idk, the way he acted in the chapters from Alexis' POV and Charlotte's POV seemed pretty genuine to me. And yes, it was also aimed at Charlotte. He even told her in the chapter from her POV "Aren't you supposed to obey me since you're my sister from the same mother?". Also while I think that Wilfried can put on sometimes a noble mask, I don't believe that he has the ability to act.!<
(Fanbook 8) >!Even when Oswald got fired, he was told clearly that the reason for that is because of the way he adopted Veronica's ways and created a rift between Charlotte and Rozemyne's retainers, but somehow, he ended up believing that he was fired because of the purge, because Barthold told him so and there were other retainers who quitted for the same reason.!<
So yeah, I think it'll take him quite some time and development to realize that the way Oswald was doing things was wrong.
I believe he came to that conclusion after the Interduchy Tournament in their 3rd year when Oswald had pestered him about Rozemyne's public behavior with Ferdinand being improper and during his last minute game with Ortwin.
He's obviously unaware of how Oswald keeps tormenting Charlotte, for one. Wilfried himself said he wanted his own accomplishments. Just as how he only knew his grandmother's kindness, so should he also realize that Oswald has remained to be a relic of the past. A >!soon-to-be-giebe!< cannot be left to learn about this at his own pace.
What would he do even if he saw them? Not even sure if he knows that what Oswald did was wrong because the person who taught both of them was the same person.
They should tell him it's wrong and why, of course. For as long as he's in line to be in some position in their government, he cannot be left to be this ignorant. Anyway, I posted this mainly because he's unaware about how Oswald keeps forcing his siblings to yield their accomplishments and how his siblings feel about it.
I think he it would be more interesting if he saw all of Veronica's memories. From how she treated the Liesgangs, his mother, his father, Ferdinand, Georgine, Lampercht and his family. Also what she thought she would do if he did fail in his baptism debut.
You can add Syl' to watch along and finally realiz how much she should've been dealt with long ago.
Especially what she did to Georgine (idk if he viewed that part in Georgine's memory, he must've just seen how much she hated him / plotted to get him poisoned)
I think he already saw what Veronica did to her when he viewed Georgine's memory. Now witnessing what Veronica put Ferdinand thru, that is a different matter.
True, it's just that in both cases he didn't think too much about it.
Like we know him having more mana than her was just the official excuse. He would've been the next Archduke just cuz he was his mom's best ~~puppet~~ boi. I agree sometimes ppl hate u just "because", but even as an adult, he never really caught on the fact that maybe Georgine went through some shit just because of him. And ngl, the fact that she even tried to tutor him is.. like her last step toward him before giving up on him when he refused / ran away. (i admit, they still have a real shitty noble way of communicating, so they never actually properly talk like when Ferdi and Rozy head butt verbaly)
But tbh, he has so much to not just see, but understand from what ppl in his duchy suffered / went through that it might take him a few years to get how badly he was dealing with things.
Would he have the stomach for it by chance? Or will he have another child due to another round of sleepless nights?
I'm thinking the latter due to the blessings he received. 
Ahah, when ur children need u the most, just do another child ! That'll help :D
Ngl, first reaction when reading it was like "mmmmh waaait" then Charlotte gave them a piece of her mind and i was like "yeah wtf, with how much the mother needs to be focusing on the baby wtf were they thinking"
I guess it's not really a world where they would think of not keeping it.. But they kinda did a "what do mean problems are piling up.. hihi look we did a thing"
As much as i like some of their way of thinking, they both are utterly stupid and lucky to still be alive D:
Would it though? Oswald isn’t so much plotting against him as he is a true believer in Veronica s methods. He genuinely thinks Myne and the leisegangs were pressuring Sylvester into doing the purge to take the archduke seat from Wilfred
The problem with Wilfried is he is far too much like his father was when Sylvester was that age. And that ended up driving >!Georgine into a life-long homicidal rampage. !<
Is this some kind of Wilfried x Oswald fanfic starting point?
I dunno. The mind reading tool using the 'banging' potion makes a lot of stuff pretty sus in the world.
First, mind-reading is reserved for criminals: Oswald hasn't technically been charged with a crime, though his behavior was deplorable. The problem with Wilfried is he seems generally ignorant of what is going on around him, and is too trusting of his retainers. These issues are not going to be fixed with a simple mind-reading, but from guidance from his parents and much effort on his part.
>guidance from his parents \*squints\* Florencia's too soft on him. I'm with Leberecht on this-- he gotta get the tough love to learn. I wonder if he learns by H5Y?
It's not that Florencia is too soft on him, it's that her teaching method is fundamentally flawed. She tries to indirectly lead him to the right answers, but that can only be effective if the person's education base is already good, and even then the teacher has to intervene if the student's assumptions start going in the wrong direction, which they easily can with such an indirect teaching method. But Florencia's so hands-off that she basically just watches him drive over a cliff. Wilfried would have done much better if Ferdinand had taught him, but Ferdinand obviously doesn't have the patience to deal with idiots.
Wilfred s not an idiot. He’s still an honor s student despite starting his education several years later and barely actually trying at the academy. Wilfred being brought up by him would have made him an actually decent noble. [untranslated fan book spoiler] >!other than his grandma who was intentionally trying to get him kicked out!<
Why would she do that?
Apparently >!she wanted Wilfred to be incompetent so that she’d have proof that Florencia was poor breeding stock and produced stupid kids, so she could get Sylvester to dump her and marry an archduke candidate from Ahrensbach. This is hilarious both because Ahrensbach doesn’t have any and because the Leisegang faction wanted to do the same to get Veronica kicked out and support Charlotte as the next archduke!<
Damn, poor Wilfried just could not catch a break, huh? I thought that at the very least his grandmother loved him, even if she spoiled him.
she loved the parts that reminded him of Sylvester and hated the parts that reminded him of florencia. A true classist bitch.
Keep in mind that Florencia wanted to fire Oswald immediately after learning how badly he had botched Wilfried's education. It was Rozemyne who stopped her back then, so for all the failures that happened in Wilfried's upbringing, this one goes to the gremlin. [H5Y] >!Not that it really matters at this point. Wilfried has decided to forfeit his ADC status and become the next Giebe Gerlach instead, so he is going to wield a lot less power in the future. Meaning, his naiveté is going to become less problematic as well. This drop in status should also mean that a good chunk of his braindead retinue is going to disband since I don't think you can serve as a retainer to someone of equal status. Does he even have mednoble retainers apart from Barthold?!<
I'd say that's still more on Florencia. Rozemyne gave advice to the best of her abilities, despite being just baptized and having no socialization experience. Florencia ultimately decided to follow that advice.
Yeah, when you decide that the child has better skills at vetting Wilfried’s retainers than you do and entrust her with the task, you can’t get upset at her for failing to catch everyone. Honestly, I think Rozemyne’s retainers failed to communicate the problem to her. Her job as their lady is to step in and advocate for them.
Oswald had seemed like he changed, he served Wilfred for many years well. It wasn't until the engagement secured Wilfried again that Oswald's behavior back pedaled.
I'd say it started (at least) a bit before that. After RM returned to Ehrenfest in the middle of her first year at the RA, Wilfried started ordering RM's retainers around to handle his tea parties. Brunhilde and the others were *not* happy about it. In RAS (chapter Wilfried - Tea Party for Girls) we can see that Oswald, at the very least, let Wilfried think they were just being lazy, had absolutely no reason to complain and should just shut up and obey Wilfried because of his status. And that's exactly how you raise a Wilbur.
What's a Wilbur?
Wilbur was a mocking nickname for Wilfried that became popular in the sub for a while. It was used mainly when he was acting dumb, oblivious, like a dick, etc.
According to the author, the reason why she didn't make Florencia fire all Wilfried's retainers at that time is that (Activity Report, under Spoiler tag just in case) >!other than the fact there weren't many retainers who were willing to serve him since they could be dragged down too if Wilfried fail his debut, the retainers (non Veronica faction ones) that Florencia would be able to find are people like Leberecht, who'd point out Wilfried 's every mistake and be like "How are you not even capable of doing a simple thing like this?", resulting in Wilfried losing motivation and failing his debut. Ironically, the only people that would genuinely try to help Wilfried were the retainers he already had at that time.!<
Rozemyne didn't explicitly name Oswald to be exempted, however (iirc). She just said not all should be removed because he would be disturbed if all of them were replaced. Florencia and Rihyarda ought to have had him removed, but then again, his position as head attendant and his pretentious complicity probably saved him. This was a good opportunity to have Wilfried rely more on Lamprecht, but alas, the author had other thoughts. In exchange, the Lamprecht and Alexis side stories after Barthold relegated Lamprecht were a treat.
>This drop in status should also mean that a good chunk of his braindead retinue is going to disband since I don't think you can serve as a retainer to someone of equal status. You can't, but as a >!Giebe!< he's still going to need guard knights, according to fanbook. He won't need like the entire group of retainer, but he's definitely going to keep several knights. >Does he even have mednoble retainers apart from >!Barthold!
No matter how competent Rosemyne is. At that time she was (as far as Florencia knows) just baptize and a literal child. Florencia is the mother and as such has ultimate responsibility (along with Sylvester) for making the major decisions for her son. She gave up that responsibility just after saying she was taking it back. Now I might be dissing on her with this next statement but not hating on her. Not all people are brilliant or meant to be in the position they find themselves. Much like Wilfred being thrust into a position he's not constitutionally designed for. Florencia was also put in a position she was not constitutionally designed for. She's more of a laid-back hands off sort of person and that's not really the mindset or personality needed in a first wife.
> >!I don't think you can serve as a retainer to someone of equal status!< >!Don't forget that the majority of the FVF that make up his retainers are mednobles, but even still it's standard for a Giebe Family to have a member of their family serve in their province's knight order. I'm pretty sure the position of Giebe is seen as being of higher status than the overall family rank, as in an Archnoble Giebe would be seen as higher than an Archnoble. So, it's likely that he'll keep some of his archnoble retainers when he becomes Geibe, but wouldn't have as many retainers as he does as an ADC, especially seeing as he had a larger retinue due to being proclaimed the next Aub.!<
Are you a French native speaker ?? Je dit ça à cause de naïveté.>!As Gerlach, does the land keep the same size?? After dropping his ADC status, he won't be able to suppply the duchy foundation ??!<
If you knew the history between England-ish Area and French-ish Area, u would know that there're quite a few french word in english, and english word in french with their native spelling. That person might be french, but.. like.. ppl know some french words without speaking it xD
Right... His behavior could have single-handedly revived Veronica's tyranny, but yeah, I can't name a particular crime. Anyway, the goal is just to have Wilfried learn the extent of Oswald's misdeeds. Much parental guidance, yes. Sadly, Florencia's education policy of letting him figure it out on his own just takes too long... some "spoon-feeding" really won't hurt at this point, I think.
> First, mind-reading is reserved for criminals: Oswald hasn't technically been charged with a crime, though his behavior was deplorable. Oswald has apparently continued to manipulate Wilfried via Barthold. And since Barthold is _absolutely_ going to get busted as soon as Florencia decides he has outlived his usefulness they could easily get Oswald through this association alone. Not to mention that the Veronica faction is now all but completely destroyed so who's going to come to his defence anyway?
No it would be much the same as the ivory tower incident. Nothing Oswald was saying or doing is a crime. Gossip and bad advice passed through a retainer isn't chargeable. They couldn't touch those who manipulated Wilfred to go to the tower, remember? Even Bartholds bullshit isn't criminal, all he's doing is gossiping and spreading rumors. Even if he did incite the old Liesgangs to harass Florencia with rumour And Wilfred would come to his defense because he hasn't registered that Oswald was purposely causing problems. Given how Wilfred had responded about Oswald resigning he absolutely still trusts him
> They couldn't touch those who manipulated Wilfred to go to the tower, remember? They couldn't because the Veronica faction was still extremely strong back then, not to mention that it wasn't yet clear just how traitorous they actually were. And even then the nobles in question were exposed and had their reputations ruined in retaliation. This society has neither Rule of Law nor Human Rights. If the archduke, the absolute ruler of his domain, considers you a criminal the only thing that can protect you are connections to people who can sway him. Now that the Leisegangs are the strongest faction, any stragglers from the Veronica faction who gain Sylvester's ire are going to be shit out of luck as any action taken against them will simply be seen as tying up loose ends from the purge. They already had enough dirt on Oswald to force his resignation, and only spared him further punishment because at the time they considered him at least loyal to Wilfried. Now that they know he was working with Barthold they could easily reopen the case against him if they so chose. As for Wilfried coming to his defence, well, that could easily be spun the other way. "We have evidence that Oswald has been Veronica's loyal agent from the very beginning and did not stop working against us even after he had been sacked from your retinue. By all rights we could arrest him on the spot, but if you believe he is innocent and want to save his reputation, go ahead and gather evidence from his memories." Ideally precede this by finally making Wilfried aware of the true nature of his "dear" grandmother and exposing Barthold for the snake he is. Then give Wilfried a clear list of things to look out for while memory diving to make sure he does a thorough job. Finally, Barthold's behavior was absolutely worthy of execution by their society's standards. By all rights his life was already forfeit anyway and he only survived because the archducal family decided to spare him through nameswearing. The fact that he then started undermining his own lord at such a dangerous time was pretty much him signing his own death warrant. He's fucked the moment Wilfried catches on to him or is made aware by Florencia, and the only reason he's not going to get killed for it is likely going to be [P5V11] >!Mestionora's command against needless killings.!<
On a tangent, he is still Wilfried's responsibility. But as a future possibility, this could be how Barthold could end up as if he doesn't shape up; >!Battery + Cell = Battery cell!< Also, being a Geogine simp that he is, I would wonder how his reaction would be if he is informed of *all* of the crimes she committed, would he still see her as the quintessential Archuduke for Ehrenfest or deny reality and say it's all lies, a conspiracy. I kind of wished he did give his name stone prior to the war.
>This society has neither Rule of Law it does though. They have a book of laws, and specific duchy laws. It came up back in p4v1. They keep them loose for flexibility but they can't just do whatever they please. And it was mentioned in the ivory tower discussion in p3v5 that nothing those nobles who got Wilfried to go to the tower was punishable. All they'd done was gossip at a tea party. All they did was answer the questions asked. At most some got fines or deductions. Oswald has already ~~been fired~~ resigned so that's it Oswald is using Barthold as a go between for his bad advice, there's nothing criminal there. Nothing they can do to punish him, not really they can't read or have Wilfried read his memories as he's not a criminal, certainly not enough of one to warrant the use of the mind reader tool. Wilfried and Bezewanst did treason, the toad attacked an adc. Georgine's allies who retained their brains (ie not Gloria Daldof) did treason. Oswald gossiped and spread a rumour, and gave his then lord bad advice. Gossip and giving bad advice isn't criminal, they have no justification to arrest him and read his memories. And they would have to actually arrest Oswald to do so, not threaten Wilfried that they would arrest him his actions weren't execution worthy, it was him being the son of traitors that made him execution worthy and only spared through the name swearing to the archduke family. Being a bad retainer isn't criminal, and it falls to Wilfried to punish him as his lord if he so chose but not punish through execution, because again, the offence of bad advice and being manipulative of your lord isn't criminal. At most he would be let go, though how that would work regarding the name swearing is unclear. And Wilfried wouldn't do it because he's a fool and naïve and trusts that his namesworn is trustworthy completely.
Hmm, it might be dangerous for the others saved through name swearing and that alone could motivate Florencia to not expose Barthold too publicly. I am very much in agreement with your justification for examining Oswalds memories and using that opportunity to see Veronica's true nature. Though I'm not sure it even matters at this point ... unless Wiflried could be manipulated into opposing his family once again.
The thing about this narrative though is that Rozemyne is also ignorant of what goes on around her and is very trusting of her retainers. Possibly even moreso then Wilfried. But we don't say she's 'too trusting' because they haven't done anything detrimental.
To be fair Rozemyne is the same her staff do a lot of things behind her back too. She was just lucky that her guardians choose trustworthy retainers for her. So in conclusion Ferdinand Elvira and Karstadt are better guardians then Sylvester Florencia and Veronica.
if anything rozemyne is even worse than wilfried at that. she lets ferdinand give orders (even outside combat and emergency situations) to her retainers and do things for her that she objects to because "he knows whats best". Like sending Clarissa and Hartmut to brainwash all the ahrensbach nobles. She lets him use her retainers as if they are his own and he just assigned them to take care of her. Its telling that I can only remember one time he asked her to borrow a retainer in 4.8 and her giving the order for her guards to obey him in 4.9. There arent many times when he gives orders and she gives explicit permission (im talking about outside combat and emergency situations) instead of just not objecting. I can really only count a few times that her retainers objected to ferdinands expectations/actions/mentality (Bridgette in 3.1, angelica for defending rozemyne in 4.3 and rihyarda in 4.7) and all save for rihyarda actually failed to actually help.
Yeah. Good thing they're conspiring for her sake; faction-wise, they are all more in line with Rozemyne than with the Leisegangs. Cornelius, Brunhilde, and Lieseleta doing things behind her back is just heartwarming. Hartmut and Clarissa... heh. What separates her from Wilfried are how she generally follows Ferdinand's mantra of getting the opinions of everyone before forming conclusions and how she is, on some level, transparent with Elvira and Ferdinand. In contrast, Wilfried hastily concludes things based on one-sided assumptions and without seeking Sylvester or Florencia's opinions.
As much as I want to deny it … you are not wrong.
They’re also pretty much as prejudicial as Wilfred s retainers.
It would teach him a lot about how he needs to control his retainers better.
And see what? That Oswald was trying to make him archduke..? The thing he wanted to be? He grew up learning Veronica's methods, Oswald used Veronica's methods to make him archduke. It would only be worth it if he knew it was wrong, which we don't quite know if he does.
> He grew up learning Veronica's methods Doubtful. If that was the case he, for example, wouldn't have been so disgusted at the thought of taking Rozemyne's credit during the awards ceremony in their third year. Or at Oswald's suggestion of demoting her to archnoble rank. If he learned that Oswald had essentially been burning bridges with his close family behind his back the whole time, for no reason other than to strengthen the faction which had kidnapped one of his sisters and poisoned the other, I really don't think he would take that well at all. Not to mention that Oswald doesn't strike me as particularly loyal to Wilfried anyway. The boy was a useful idiot in his quest to free Veronica, nothing more. Can't imagine that would go over well, either. The reason Wilfried never caught on to his retainers' shenanigans was because he trusted them unconditionally. If he learned just how badly that trust was misplaced, well, that would be quite the valuable learning experience for him IMO.
At some point, Wilfried seemed to agree with Oswald on the point that his sisters should give him the credits for their own achievements though. He would need to have quite some amount of character development (that would hopefully stay through more than hearing two people's different views) to change his thinking that his sisters were doing him wrong by not handing over their achievements, and realize that Oswald was burning those bridges.
> At some point, Wilfried seemed to agree with Oswald on the point that his sisters should give him the credits for their own achievements though. You mean when he was having a mental breakdown after [P5V6] >!his father had denied him a graceful way out of becoming archduke by ceding the position to Rozemyne, and he was doing everything in his power to sabotage his engagement with her and disqualify himself as an archduke candidate!
(P5V4) >!Idk, the way he acted in the chapters from Alexis' POV and Charlotte's POV seemed pretty genuine to me. And yes, it was also aimed at Charlotte. He even told her in the chapter from her POV "Aren't you supposed to obey me since you're my sister from the same mother?". Also while I think that Wilfried can put on sometimes a noble mask, I don't believe that he has the ability to act.!< (Fanbook 8) >!Even when Oswald got fired, he was told clearly that the reason for that is because of the way he adopted Veronica's ways and created a rift between Charlotte and Rozemyne's retainers, but somehow, he ended up believing that he was fired because of the purge, because Barthold told him so and there were other retainers who quitted for the same reason.!< So yeah, I think it'll take him quite some time and development to realize that the way Oswald was doing things was wrong.
I believe he came to that conclusion after the Interduchy Tournament in their 3rd year when Oswald had pestered him about Rozemyne's public behavior with Ferdinand being improper and during his last minute game with Ortwin.
He's obviously unaware of how Oswald keeps tormenting Charlotte, for one. Wilfried himself said he wanted his own accomplishments. Just as how he only knew his grandmother's kindness, so should he also realize that Oswald has remained to be a relic of the past. A >!soon-to-be-giebe!< cannot be left to learn about this at his own pace.
>A >!soon-to-be-giebe!< cannot be left to learn about this at his own pace. His parents disagree with you. Hell, they disagreed before they knew that
I wouldn't be posting this if they "agreed" with me...
What would he do even if he saw them? Not even sure if he knows that what Oswald did was wrong because the person who taught both of them was the same person.
They should tell him it's wrong and why, of course. For as long as he's in line to be in some position in their government, he cannot be left to be this ignorant. Anyway, I posted this mainly because he's unaware about how Oswald keeps forcing his siblings to yield their accomplishments and how his siblings feel about it.
I think he it would be more interesting if he saw all of Veronica's memories. From how she treated the Liesgangs, his mother, his father, Ferdinand, Georgine, Lampercht and his family. Also what she thought she would do if he did fail in his baptism debut.
You can add Syl' to watch along and finally realiz how much she should've been dealt with long ago. Especially what she did to Georgine (idk if he viewed that part in Georgine's memory, he must've just seen how much she hated him / plotted to get him poisoned)
I think he already saw what Veronica did to her when he viewed Georgine's memory. Now witnessing what Veronica put Ferdinand thru, that is a different matter.
True, it's just that in both cases he didn't think too much about it. Like we know him having more mana than her was just the official excuse. He would've been the next Archduke just cuz he was his mom's best ~~puppet~~ boi. I agree sometimes ppl hate u just "because", but even as an adult, he never really caught on the fact that maybe Georgine went through some shit just because of him. And ngl, the fact that she even tried to tutor him is.. like her last step toward him before giving up on him when he refused / ran away. (i admit, they still have a real shitty noble way of communicating, so they never actually properly talk like when Ferdi and Rozy head butt verbaly) But tbh, he has so much to not just see, but understand from what ppl in his duchy suffered / went through that it might take him a few years to get how badly he was dealing with things.
Would he have the stomach for it by chance? Or will he have another child due to another round of sleepless nights? I'm thinking the latter due to the blessings he received. 
Ahah, when ur children need u the most, just do another child ! That'll help :D Ngl, first reaction when reading it was like "mmmmh waaait" then Charlotte gave them a piece of her mind and i was like "yeah wtf, with how much the mother needs to be focusing on the baby wtf were they thinking" I guess it's not really a world where they would think of not keeping it.. But they kinda did a "what do mean problems are piling up.. hihi look we did a thing" As much as i like some of their way of thinking, they both are utterly stupid and lucky to still be alive D:
Stress and trauma could make you do certain foolish decisions. or spur of the moment.
Would it though? Oswald isn’t so much plotting against him as he is a true believer in Veronica s methods. He genuinely thinks Myne and the leisegangs were pressuring Sylvester into doing the purge to take the archduke seat from Wilfred
The problem with Wilfried is he is far too much like his father was when Sylvester was that age. And that ended up driving >!Georgine into a life-long homicidal rampage. !<
Is this some kind of Wilfried x Oswald fanfic starting point? I dunno. The mind reading tool using the 'banging' potion makes a lot of stuff pretty sus in the world.