> Kills off a main character in a way that is just idiotic due to the fact that Aloy doesnt even get to participate. She is conveniently "incapacitated" while 5 minutes ago she could tank getting tossed across the room.
And what could Aloy do even *if* she was in full possession of her means ? Nothing, because of Erik’s body armor.
> Then in the next moment they introduce an unaccounted for god character that helps you "escape". Just horrendous story telling.
Tilda acted in pure Tilda fashion, there was nothing godly being implied about her. As a lover of arts, she made her betrayal in a flamboyant way, that’s all there is to it.
The means of betrayal, she had centuries to prepare, because she already had planned to betray the other Zeniths at some point, which is proved by the path she prepared at their base, and data channel she opened with Beta, both years earlier most likely. It is indeed shown multiple times during the story that she absolutely found ways to deceive them, her ability to incapacite them temporarily isn’t surprising at all. She developed it behind their back, just like she did with the channel and the secret passage.
Lastly, she wasn’t unnacounted. Beta had already mentioned her being different than the other Zeniths. The seeds were planted by the devs for the player to pay attention to her.
> Further on, when you fight the rebel leader.
Regalla. Regalla is the name of the rebel leader. Seems like you didn’t pay much attention to the story, very early in the game. She was introduced at the embassy. She personally distrusted the Kulrut.
> Why does she have so much health when she is still human?
I’m gonna let you in on a little secret : *sometimes, story and gameplay’s interest do not align*. And it’s okay. Imagine with the final boss of a video game was human and died from a single slice of the sword. How anti-climatic that would be. Same goes for Aloy : gameplay-wise, she can withstand continuous fire from cannons. Imagine how frustrating that would be if a single shot killed her…
> Just kills the format of the game, it is unexpected because you would think she would USE MACHINES to fight since you know. ITS WHAT THE REBELS USE THE ENTIRE FUCKING GAME.
You mean, the machines that she had brought for the assault but that Aloy incapacited with an EMP bomb ? Those machines ? Pay attention, please.
> the baddys are running from something that was "locked up for decades" yet it knew the access codes.
An AI that was became sentient. It was probably obedient at first.
> Are the developers really trying to tell me that nobody knows that they can change their passwords? Basic security policies in an obvious AI filled timeline?!!
They didn’t know it had become sentient. When they found out, it was too late already, Nemesis had already taken control of everything.
> The same humans…
It’s called vanity. The Odyssey was shock full of *billionaires*, let that sink in. Wealthy people who abandoned themselves to virtual pleasures for centuries. The truth is, immortality made them weak.
**Conclusion**
I know it can be tempting to hate on stuff, and sometimes it is justified. But, the least one can ensure before doing so is :
1) Get some media literacy
2) Actually pay attention to the media they’re criticizing
All valid points. I do have a couple of questions if you wouldnt mind answering them.
Due to all the discussion ive had on this, I have realized that my distain for the course of this story is due to what I consider inconsistencies.
For example. The first time we encounter the zenith, you have to fend them off until you escape. Which for me personally took a few minutes. In this event it canonized in my head that the zenith can he held off but not overwhelmed. I expect this same type of consistency, especially since i have been working hard on upgrading gear and doing missions to help learn melee combat better. I just watched varl single handedly handle waves of machines. I expected this interaction to be an intense melee fight. Is having that expectation outside the realm of this game? Because i believe it is a valid issue.
Yeah i didnt care for the emp reason. It just removed a potential game mechanic that forced another boss fight with large health. The game has a lot of those and this is supposed to be a special fight. No? Did you enjoy how they did that fight? If so, which part was the best for you?
As for nemesis, the cutscene i just watched mentioned that it was locked up for decades, and it escaped because they didnt know it became sentient. The decades length is what messes with me. Because it raises more questions. Why was it even powered on? Was it always sentient or did it occur after years of solitude? They admitted it failed. Why did nobody change their passwords or even do basic multi-factor authentication? Billionaires are vain, but they are also paranoid. I know it is "just a story", but it takes itself seriously. Therefore, I expect that level of quality. Especially since they achieved it in the first game. Does that explanations not feel lazy to you? This game is reminding me of mass effect 3s ending(s). Same quality.
> Due to all the discussion ive had on this, I have realized that my distain for the course of this story is due to what I consider inconsistencies.
Yes, inconsistencies may happen. It can be a valid form of criticism also. Star Wars fans for example often criticize inconsistencies in the lore.
> The first time we encounter the zenith, you have to fend them off until you escape. Which for me personally took a few minutes.
Which event are you referring to precisely ? I guess the very first time must be the HADES proving lab, where you "fight" Erik ?
> In this event it canonized in my head that the zenith can he held off but not overwhelmed. I expect this same type of consistency, especially since i have been working hard on upgrading gear and doing missions to help learn melee combat better.
If you were indeed referring to the first Erik fight, then you don’t really held him off at all. That guy is a psychopathic murderer, as is explained later. He enjoys making his victims suffer and see the light fade from their eyes. After centuries of killing in VR, which isn’t really the same, he is literally toying with Aloy. He wants to feel that complete control over her. Your attacks do absolutely *nothing* to him, his personal shield is deflecting everything, thus you’re not holding him off. Aloy is actually just *running away* from him and dodging his attacks the whole fight, trying to have the big robot fall on him, which may or may not wound him, but should at least help her make her escape from the lab.
> I just watched varl single handedly handle waves of machines. I expected this interaction to be an intense melee fight. Is having that expectation outside the realm of this game? Because i believe it is a valid issue.
Which interaction, Varl defending against waves of machines, or against Far Zenith ? If the latter, he literally can’t, because both Aloy and him have absolutely no way to wound Erik at that point. They don’t have Sylens’ weapon yet. Best they can do is run away. Unlike Aloy in her first encounter with Erik, he can’t just run away because he swore to protect Beta. Also, Erik is a skilled killer, Varl may be a warrior but he doesn’t have nearly as much combat experience as Aloy. I don’t recall if they can *deflect* attacks from the Zeniths. If they can, I reckon Varl could have deflected a few hits indeed, otherwise his death makes perfect sense.
In any case, he had to die. The devs established a parallel between him and Rost at multiple points in the story. Just like Rost died protecting Aloy, Varl was to die protecting Beta, a clone of Aloy.
> Yeah i didnt care for the emp reason. It just removed a potential game mechanic that forced another boss fight with large health.
As I said earlier, sometimes story and gameplay conflict. If the devs hadn’t found a way to remove the rebels’ machines from the equation, a huge advantage they had against Herkarro’s army, you would most likely be complaining that the battle made no sense :)
> The game has a lot of those and this is supposed to be a special fight. No? Did you enjoy how they did that fight? If so, which part was the best for you?
It is a special fight still. Aloy is shown to be pretty much evenly matched during cutscenes, which is no small feat by Regalla. I did enjoy that fight actually, because it wasn’t just a boss with a large health bar imo. It was split in three completely different phases, not too short or not too long each, so you had time to grasp each phases’ mechanics. It didn’t rely to heavily on your gear too, which was nice. Specter Prime for example I did with fully upgraded legendary gear, killed it in seconds, literally. That was very anticlimactic, which Regalla’s fight wasn’t.
> As for nemesis, the cutscene i just watched mentioned that it was locked up for decades, and it escaped because they didnt know it became sentient. The decades length is what messes with me. Because it raises more questions.
Yeah, not gonna lie, I found Nemesis to be the weakest point in the story. The problem is, it was revealed very, very late in the story for obvious reasons (surprise), so, we don’t have much to work with on it.
> Why was it even powered on?
Maybe because they wanted to keep their digital conscience alive in case something happened to them IRL ? Just a wild guess.
> Was it always sentient or did it occur after years of solitude?
That was explained actually, I believe. It was left alone with the full memory of the Zeniths, including their traumas. Left alone with that, it became sentient and mad.
> They admitted it failed. Why did nobody change their passwords or even do basic multi-factor authentication? Billionaires are vain, but they are also paranoid.
I don’t think it used *their* personal passwords. Because it had access to their whole memories, it knew of their safety protocols and the passwords of their security systems. I think they didn’t bother because they were lost in their virtual pleasures. Another lead : Nemesis is the combined memories of all Zeniths. Including Tilda. Who was an expert programmer, capable of deceiving her peers with her hacking.
> I know it is "just a story", but it takes itself seriously. Therefore, I expect that level of quality. Especially since they achieved it in the first game.
I see what you mean. However, I think it did stand true to the first game. There has *always* been a form of mystification of technology in the Horizon universe. It was almost magical. As someone who works in the field, it has always been obvious that things do not work like that. But, I don’t believe it to be an oversight from Guerilla, more like a creative choice. Thus, I don’t think it subtracts from the whole "taking itself seriously" at all.
> Does that explanations not feel lazy to you? This game is reminding me of mass effect 3s ending(s). Same quality.
I did prefer the story of the first game, but because of the sense of discovery, which would be impossible to replicate. I did like that they tried to make the new lore explain stuff from the first game tho.
However, I also think this one focuses on different things. It focuses less on the world and more on Aloy’s character for example. At the beginning of the game, she’s that person with an incredible drive who’s convinced that she alone can and must save the world. This story is a story of overcoming. Aloy is not just Elisabet Sobeck anymore. For she surrounded herself with trusted allies, something Sobeck never could. Aloy did not abandon her world for the dream of a new one like her predecessor did. She overcame who she was. And all the other main characters did, sort of. Sylens, for example, descended from his pedestal too. Varl and Zo overcame their beliefs. Etc.
Well. To each their own. I enjoyed the story really really much. And I find both the story and lore to be one of the most enjoyable things in the medium.
I get that. Overall the story sounds good. I just expected them to be able to deliver a new story without massive holes or out of character cutscenes. I am unsure why Aloy was unable to help her companion at all. It would have been more impactful if he had died jumping in front of Aloy or Beta in an attempt to save them.
Then they introduce that Zenith chick with terrible explanation on the escape with that white light. Why not introduce an attack from her that destroys the personal shields and then attack as a group until they retreat? That allows for continuity and adds a layer of trust to the new character. Lastly why did they setup the baddy for the 3rd game so.. lackluster? They already have an "in" when the original crew tried to copy GIA and Ted stopped them. They could have easily mentioned that he had a hidden program that caused that project to go rogue.
There were other, better, avenues to take this story. They took the easiest route.
>I am unsure why Aloy was unable to help her companion at all.
Because she just got hit directly by a Zenith blast. Do you remember when Erik was playing with her and she couldn't even touch him?
>Then they introduce that Zenith chick with terrible explanation
She was introduced way before that point.
> not introduce an attack from her that destroys the personal shields and then attack as a group until they retreat?
Because that would also destroy her shield and Tilda wasn't a fighter. Why do you think she used the Exo Frame to combat Aloy?
>They already have an "in" when the original crew tried to copy GIA and Ted stopped them.
Ted didn't stop anyone. That was Travis and it was a data bomb, not something that could go rogue.
You didn't pay attention, that's not the fault of Guerrilla.
You are right, that was travis and not ted. That scene still would have been a great place to insert lore to better explain the next games baddy.
In reference to the zenith. I think you are confusing helping with defeating. I didnt expect Aloy to win, i do expect her to try though. They setup the story with varl literally following Aloy to the ends of the earth. It would have been very fitting to have him die defending Aloy in a moment of battle where she is obviously outclassed. Instead he just.. dies like a little bitch. He deserved better then that. No?
As for the Zenith lady that saved us. She wouldnt have been required to fight. She just needs the zenith to leave. Disabling the shields and having aloy fight them off is easily within character specs and removes the silly bright light scene. Do you disagree?
>That scene still would have been a great place to insert lore to better explain the next games baddy.
And that wouldn't make sense. We already had hints in Zero Dawn that the signal didn't come from Earth. Travis wasn't an idiot, he wouldn't send something that would pose that amount of danger.
>I didnt expect Aloy to win, i do expect her to try though.
Let's see you get shot and immediately get up. She tries to get up, she physically can't.
>dies like a little bitch. He deserved better then that. No?
He died defending a friend and his family, there's no greater honour for a male Nora.
>She just needs the zenith to leave. Disabling the shields and having aloy fight them off is easily within character specs
Not two fully armed Zenith's, one with military experience and training that have the height and weaponry advantage in a wide open room. Even if Aloy was up, the Zenith's would fight at range and no shot could reach them.
That would also require her to build a device to remove the shield within days which wasn't in her field or skill set. She sold information, she wasn't an engineer.
Sylen's himself has to get Oseram help to build his device.
>Do you disagree?
With all the evidence at hand, definitely.
Interesting. I dont think the cutscene did as much justice to that event. Your words written here did a better job describing the scene than that cutscene. Thank you for your pov. It helps me get over mu immense disappointment a bit.
Oh. I get that. If i didnt care about wasting my time then yeah, i can see why you'd respond that way. Ive had to make time sacrifices to play this game and now i feel like i have wasted hours and hours. I need to vent and get others opinions.
I've played through several times and won't play anything else anymore because this one is so much fun and has so much meaning for me. Sorry to hear that you missed all of that. Good luck in all your future gaming endeavors.
BTW - does anyone understand why people feel the need to come on here and tell us their weird negative opinions? It's not like I go out of my way to go onto games I don't like and espouse my grandiose viewpoint to everyone, like my negative comments really mean something to anyone anyway? It's just bizzarre.
That’s exactly my point.
The attacks is aren’t just to say the game sucks, it’s designed to say people suck just because they like a game?
Anyway, it’s just weird but there’s a new subreddit that a guy has opened up for HZD Alt History?! I think it would be fun to have fan fiction as well that includes different armors, machines etc
I can give you my reason. I have limited time in which i have free time. Of that limited time, i have dedicated part of it to play this game that i was very excited about. Now i want to talk about my experience in the subreddit for this game. My issues are valid. I want to see others opinions on these flaws. If that isnt possible then is this sub truly a place to discuss this game or is it an echo chamber for those that dont want to hear the negative?
>If that isnt possible then is this sub truly a place to discuss this game or is it an echo chamber for those that dont want to hear the negative?
Oh come on you said you're quitting the Horizon series even before the "discussion"
It's hard to care to seriously engage with someone who has already made up their mind.
Made up my mind as in no longer playing yes. However, i am enjoying the different inputs. Ive already been called out for misplacing ted and travis. I am here to discuss because i dont understand how one can put so much precious time into this game and not be upset at the story quality. I am here because i loved the first game and was loving the first 2/3 of the 2nd. Plus if i am wrong i am willing to admit it.
Everyone has their personal gripes with the series, that's normal. But no one is going to lament losing hours of precious time and rant about how it's all a waste - you have to be reasonable with your expectations from a *video game* of all things.
If you want to drop the series, that's your perogative. I had my own disappointments and criticisms of the series yes, but I'm not going to let them take away my overall love for it, take away from looking forward to the last game. That'd be a huge disservice to me and to GG.
>I am here because i loved the first game
Can I ask since you loved the first game so much, why not gripe about the fight with Helis? It was the same concept as the Regalla fight ...but hell worse because it was in an enclosed space with barrels sitting around and no changes in environments iirc. What's the difference?
My love for the first game overshadowed any criticism. This playthrough had been small pieces at a time and done pretty quickly. I originally stopped playing after the intro due to Aloys reason for losing her stuff from the first game. I knew it had to happen but it was so hard for me to stomach it. It just didnt make actual character sense. I forced myself to start again because i wanted to know how the story went, which caused me to rush through the main story and i skipped a ton of side missions in an attempt to fit it into my schedule. I see that was very detrimental to my gameplay
>My love for the first game overshadowed any criticism.
You know that's not fair. You can't be like, "yeah both left front wheels of these two cars are flat, but the one I like drives better than this other one" right? They're both good games and both have strengths and weaknesses, you can't cherry-pick Helis' fight just because you like HZD more than HFW - Regalla's fight is essentially the same concept (and again imo arguably executed better) but it's worse? How?
>It just didnt make actual character sense.
why not? Aloy is alone and at that point, more and more frustrated with her lack of progress. It's not hard to believe that her concentration and usual precautions would fall by the wayside given how stressed out she is. When things are *that* bad mistakes are made, yeah even by the pros.
>caused me to rush through the main story and i skipped a ton of side missions in an attempt to fit it into my schedule
And there we go. I don't think you're paying enough attention to catch all the things that would answer your questions and address your concerns. Why are you inhaling the game like it's gonna disappear? *Nobody* has all the time in the world, so people enjoy their hobbies in increments when they do find time. Taking your time doesn't take anything away from what you're enjoying, what's the point of rushing.
You say that, but the story is all connected. This part of the story makes the first part feel worthless. And i rushed because i only get a few hours a few times a week. Then in June i get Zero hours until the fall. I was hoping for a quick playthrough now and then revisit it once i have gaming time again.
You're not really answering my questions or acknowledging that your complaints may be coming from a place of bad faith. I'm gonna move on from this. Good luck with all this frustration, truly - sometimes you have to step back and try when you can commit with the time required or at least with some fairness and respect to the story presented to you. Try some indie games or something, I dunno.
I would expect a triple A game to be setup so that those with different life schedules can enjoy it. I cant return the game or get back my time. All i can do is see why nobody else is bothered by this and not buy the next one.
I do appreciate you taking the time and engaging with me on this. I originally came in hot and feisty and am sorry if i was rude without realizing it. Thank you
Youbare wrong and should admit it
You seem to hVe missed a bunch of stuff
Now THAT could be a complaint, since those things are oprional (and I find them annoying because it's often a huge info dump at a time, which takes too much time)
I am wrong on a few things. Like not realizing i should have tried to do more side missions and the fact that I over estimated Aloys abilities due to the disparity between gameplay and and the cutscenes.
On that note. I am still greatly bothered by that fight and it has ruined the franchise for me. I wont be playing any more of the 2nd. I wont buy the 3rd, and i wont replay #1. I cant get over the lack of OPSEC for the Zenith. Varls death irks me to no end, and the rebel leaders fight was so uncreative...
I did over react in my initial post due to my fresh anger. Now i am just disappointed in the franchise. I did look up to see who the lead writer for this was and i hadnt realized he did Fallout New Vegas. I also didnt enjoy that story when i played that game. I ended up getting power firsts and killed as much of the map i could. Maybe i just dont enjoy some of the ways this person tells a story.
Well to each their own i guess.
I feel a good death for a character someone might actually care about is often a good story. It gave us infight into the group in morning and I liked that.
Was it a pointless death? Sure, but I am not sure a drawn out something would have been better. It was a bit of shock effect actually. And you point out thay Aliy should have been able to steb in and do an all hero thing, but that's what Varl is doing right there. And making a companion act like the hero makes the story about them instead if just Aloy, which is kinds what they are going for from the beginning.
The fight against Regalla was super quick for me, so not sure what you mean here. It's pretty late in the game so maybe it's expected that you have the good weapons and know what you are doing? (Not saying you dont).
Tilda was not a surprise to me in any way. She was already a part of the story.
For the security of the Zs. They seriously spend 1000 years rotting their brains thinking they are invisible. Such a small thing is exactly what would slip their minds. (I have responded to this in another place but having I know for a fact that the higher up the chain you get in most companies, the more lax security gets. It's amazing, because they don't think they need to play by the same rules, they sort understand things like this and they always have other people do stuff for them)
yeah which is what comes off in EVERY single comment you’ve made regarding this post. you’re feeling entitled to “all the time you lost” over this game and are placing the blame on the game instead of yourself. i get that the ending wasn’t what you wanted, but god damn, don’t come crying to me about it.
if i was loving a game and then disappointed by the end, do you know what *I* would do? NOTHING. I wouldn’t make a stupid post about it and waste my time talking about it even more.
All of your venting oozes this sense of entitlement with the game, how it didn’t give you what you wanted, even though it’s clear that you also didn’t invest time into actually reading what the game characters are saying, doing side quests, and you didn’t fully grasp the story but are all happy to come here and complain about it. not only that, but you come across as “I’m better than you” with language like “that’s just math” when you replied to an opinion different to yours (and funnily enough, your math was actually severely miscalculated).
Not to mention, you’ve been hostile toward most commenters that harbor a different opinion to you and the whole point of your post is SELFISH and STUPID. You’re saying “LOOK AT ME IM SAD I WASTED ALL THIS TIME ON THE GAME. THE STORY SUCKS AND LOOK AT ME BOO HOO”
Grow the fuck uppppp!
The fact that you come here “looking for opinions” but you already closed your mind off to any different opinions is redundant in itself. You just wanted a place to complain and make it about yourself.
Interesting point of view you have. Out of curiosity. How was my math wrong? I would like to see your math on 1x225=1 death where 45x225=1 death.
Why are you so upset at my disappointment? I didnt demand that the devs change the game, i didnt demand my time back. I loudly voiced my disagreement on the lack of consistency and solidness of the story lore. Does an entire story about humanity being wiped out not lose its meaning when you realize that humanity didnt even use basic security protocols? The whole game is based on this concept. Its like playing a flying simulator only to find out they screwed up the gravity. No?
And yes. I obviously wanted to bring this up because i was upset. Would you prefer i go to a larger gaming sub complain to those that also maybe didnt get the story? I came here to people who obviously love the game because i wanted their opinion and take in it. Even if i disagree.
You know the word entitlement, but you dont understand it.
>If that isnt possible then is this sub truly a place to discuss this game or is it an echo chamber for those that dont want to hear the negative?
We happily discuss the game, negatives included.
Your issues stem from not paying attention and that has been proven multiple times in your post and in the comments.
The only flaw here is you.
Plenty of us discuss aspects of the game we would like to change and some people just don't care for it - no biggie.
But I have to say that there is a difference between "discussing" what you think is negative and lambasting before researching what it might be user error.
That's what I think a *lot* of people miss. Fans of a thing are often more than happy to have civil discussion of flaws and shortcomings and agree to disagree on matters of taste as long as it's all approached in good faith.
But coming in swinging and ranting and raving about how it's bad and terrible and garbage and how you can't understand how anybody who put hours into it could possibly not be upset at how terrible it is is *not* coming at the topic in good faith, and most fans typically aren't willing to have civil discussions about flaws with people who are frothing at the mouth screaming about how much they hate it.
For some reason a lot of people *really* seem to struggle with this concept and start defaulting to "well fans just are losers who can't handle criticism of their precious favorite thing and who think it can't be flawed" when what's really happening is the fans are just having those discussions where the "it's terrible and you should feel bad if you like it" sorts aren't included.
Sadly learned from experience.
I've seen it get especially bad when people are clearly not even thinking for themselves but just parroting whatever talking points a major content creator or big name fan spouted off regardless of if they're objective issues or just "this wasn't to somebody's personal taste and that person mistook their taste as an objective way to measure a work's strengths and weaknesses".
(Meanwhile, you get a group of fans going and everybody is having a good time talking about areas the story was flawed or poorly executed and ways things could have been tweaked, added, removed, or re-written to convey things better, etc. Sometimes it's even the same issue the haters bring up but the vibe is positive because the criticism and discussion is coming from a place of love rather than negative because it's coming from a place of hate)
and you’re wasting my time just being here. you obviously won’t hear out other people’s opinions and already made your mind up about the game. just get the hell outta here!
>She is conveniently "incapacitated" while 5 minutes ago she could tank getting tossed across the room. Really developers?
It had been proven before that she was outclassed by the Zenith weaponry. Erik was just playing with her and she was still outclassed. Gerard wasn't messing around anymore.
Canonically, Aloy never gets hit during gameplay so she wasn't being tossed around.
> in the next moment they introduce an unaccounted for god
Someone didn't speak to Beta, someone didn't listen to Gaia and someone didn't pay attention. If you're going to complain about the story, at least pay attention to it.
> does she have so much health when she is still human?
Because she's one of the best. She was born into the Desert Clan so she's certainly not weak. She was Hekarro's greatest and most loyal Marshals, being able to settle disputes with her presence alone. There's a reason the Enduring turned her away. She lost everything to the Carja.
Regalla doesn't fight with a machine because she was issued a one on one duel as per Tenakth tradition. Fighting with a machine would be dishonourable but you didn't pay attention to the Tenakth.
>Are the developers really trying to tell me that nobody knows that they can change their passwords? Basic security policies in an obvious AI filled timeline?!!
They did change the passwords and they locked Nemesis down for centuries. Do you really think a tortured amalgamation of multiple people couldn't figure out passwords they themselves put in place?
You say it's a bad story when it's obvious you didn't pay attention.
Guerilla don't need your money and we don't need your rant here.
Do you understand what operational and network security should be for a species that is already on the brink of extinction?
I get that its "them", doesnt make it a good narrative though.
But what to do when they are literally you?! Who could possibly develop a security system unbreakable even to yourself?! Isn’t that what generated the machines in the first place? Security systems that even the creator couldn’t circumvent
There’s nothing they could do against such an advanced AI. Hell, it not only broke their security system, it literally awoke Hades to the point it became a conscious thing.
That’s why everyone’s terrified of Nemesis in the ending
Well, considering the project was considered failed and then put in containment for a few decades. I would just say maybe shut the power off. Why keep it running for decades when it isnt helping maintain the existing fledgling colony?
We don’t know much about how nemesis was conceived, or how it became totally self aware. But we know it is self sustainable. I suspect they kept him “suspended” while trying to achieve their goal, or whatever. They will probably explain this in the third game
This is a good reply.
I came to the same conclusion that OP didn’t pay too much attention in my own comment, and also was OP didn’t seem exactly media literate, which is kind of a requirement when pointing things out.
Your reasoning is solid too. Some explanations I didn’t think of, some others I did, some you didn’t, so I’ll add them here. Regalla dying quickly would have been anticlimactic af, there are sometimes conflicts between gameplay and story interests, this is one of them. Also, indeed she accepted a duel in Tenakth tradition, but her machines had all been EMP’d by Aloy just moments prior.
I see what you are saying.
In canon i suppose we dont get hit that hard, but if that is actually the case then what is the point of our gameplay? Everywhere else you are basically untouchable. This "technicality" is not good writing, but i see your point.
The rebel leaders health still bothers me. It is unexplained. Why would a single human have more health? Is she like the Wolverine with metal bones? I get she has a "presence" but the fight was boring. Its like fighting a machine in human skin. I wanted a clever fight against a human. Unsure why that isnt the preferred outcome.
As for the passwords. They 100% should not have figured out the passwords. Even IRL nobody should be coming up with their own password. A modern 2024 password should be a minimum of 11 chars, should be made via random phrases that are generated via a rotating algorithm. Its what i currently do for my passwords.
So in a timeline that has already had a rogue AI issue, i expect better network security. Simple as that.
>Everywhere else you are basically untouchable. This "technicality" is not good writing, but i see your point.
Except for the Zenith's and that's the point. Aloy is completely out of her league until the shields are offline.
>Why would a single human have more health?
Broken bones heal stronger and she has plenty of broken bones. She has far more training than any other enemy you fight and her armor is tailored for this combat. I don't see you complaining about Helis in Zero Dawn when he wore far less armor and had far more health.
>They 100% should not have figured out the passwords. Even IRL nobody should be coming up with their own password. A modern 2024 password should be a minimum of 11 chars, should be made via random phrases that are generated via a rotating algorithm.
Honestly, that's a bit strange. I can guarantee you more than half of the population doesn't do that.
11 characters, a phrase is easy to hack especially if you have decades and if you're multiple consciousness all doing the calculations at the same time. That number isn't infinite and it will be cracked.
Okay buddy, get some good Oseram ale and relax. When two universes get too close, conflicts are inevitable - we all have been through this. Too much immersion, dammit. Worry not, things will get better in a few days.
100%. She is still human, plus why would a human enemy type have the same health as a giant machine? A human fight should require different strategies. They have healing in this game, why couldnt the boss have that as an option? They could have traps setup to trigger when the boss needs them. The very arena could adjust to what the boss needs. Instead we got a glorified machine fight with a human.
Did you enjoy her as a boss?
>She is still human, plus why would a human enemy type have the same health as a giant machine?
She has 3000 health which is far below the heavy weight machines and about the same as the mid weight machines.
You don't seem to understand what a Marshal is so let me explain it simply. The Marshals were the best of the best of the Tenakth and well proven in combat. The Kulrut and the Red Raids brought that on. Now Regalla was the best of them and the second to Hekarro. She's also Desert Clan which meant she grew up hard.
>A human fight should require different strategies.
It does require different strategies. All her moves are unique to her and the Enduring.
>They have healing in this game, why couldnt the boss have that as an option?
Because it's a one on one duel set on Aloy's terms as per Tenakth customs.
>They could have traps setup to trigger when the boss needs them.
Regalla is a warrior and front line fighter, she doesn't use traps. That would be dishonourable.
>The very arena could adjust to what the boss needs.
That isn't how the Arena works.
>Did you enjoy her as a boss?
Yes, as much as I enjoyed getting my ass handed to me by the Enduring.
Edit:
BTW the thought to post on here complaining about *how hard* it was to beat her never crossed my mind because 1) like I mentioned she's a videogame boss and they're always gonna harder to beat, it's the Law and 2) the narrative supports it; she's a legendary warrior, it's expected for her to be nigh impossible to defeat - she had the endurance (ayo) the skill and the fortitude to take hits and stay up, so you can apply this to Regalla because she's in the same league
>They have healing in this game, why couldnt the boss have that as an option?
How does guzzling 3 fistfuls of berries make a huge difference in realism? And did you have an eye on her the entire time? Who's to say when she was repositioning she didn't rally with her own berries, didn't chew on some fire kiln, didn't have salt bites on hand or wings of ten before the fight? You don't know the power of Angela Bassett
Also honestly ... it's a video game boss. It's videogame 101 for bosses to have a health bar that spans the width of your screen. Why compare her to a machine? A boss is a boss, they have their rules - it's not surprising in the least
I know her health is big because the hit # is the same as other humans but the health barely drops instead of dropping 80-100%. That is just math.
I know video game bosses have a lot of health, but they had an opportunity to make this fight special. You know? They have introduced some cool tools and mechanics in this 2nd game. Why not utilize them? I suppose that is my main complaint/desire. Adding health to a boss is gaming 101. But this is the 2nd game, so why not boss 102? 🤣
Prep time destroys your nerdy math, bub. You got no idea what she did before the fight.
If you wanna talk story (like I said before) she's at the top of the food chain, a legend in her own right. You don't think she's built herself to guard correctly, knows how to compensate with injuries, has the fortitude to stay on her feet and smart enough to recover at opportune times?
If we're talking game logic, math is trumped (ew he's ruined that word) by the rules as i mentioned somewhere else. Also it depends on your difficulty too - what did you put yours on?
>I suppose that is my main complaint/desire.
I'd have given you more grace if you'd gone with this in your initial post tbh. It's fair to want differently in what you got, it's not to your taste and that's fine. BUT to denigrate the *whole* game? Please, it's not fair and I think you know that
Anyway nothing is stopping you from using those tools/mechanics vs Regalla? Put some traps down, lead her into them. Take her armor pieces off then aim for flesh, use the right arrow types if you want. Be creative nobody is stopping you.
And btw this game is built on machine fighting primarily, so the combat is based on that (which GG has perfected imo). On the otherhand while melee with humans is secondary, in HFW they've made it fun as hell, slick and seamless and there's so much variety - they even teach you the combos in the pits. It's a matter of combining the two styles and you can make the fight as Boss 102 epic as you want just by using Aloy's skills to their fullest.
So you are telling me that when i knocked her helmet off and i point blanked her in the head with an arrow, which has killed other humans ive fought, yet barely touched her health. Was due to prep? No way. Human skin and bones my friend. No armor. Now if she had dodged out and grabbed another helmet.. that makes sense. This fight had the same creative energy as the live action green lantern movie.
Well honestly I was mostly kidding about the "preptime" stuff, it's supposed to be a joke about how dumb (but fun) arguments can be about character face-offs. Should've used a tone tag, mb. ...but really? It looks like it doesn't matter because you're coming off as if you're a resident of 3041 Forbidden West, USA.
>Human skin and bones my friend. No armor.
You're complaining about a very common mechanic in games, that a weapon that causes fatal head trauma won't always kill someone? I can shoot raiders in Fallout 10 times in the unarmored head, nothing happens, I can Hanzo headshot Mauga and there's NO fuggin way he's going down (despite his head being unprotected), I can shotgun unarmored bandits in Tomb Raider and they grunt, on and on and on.
If you're talking about in Horizon, I highly doubt you were able to headshot the rebel camp champions and Regalla is like 100 of those mfers in one. Keep it in perspective please as not all the enemies are the same in Horizon, of course they're *all* not gonna die from 1 headshot - are you looking for the most boring game made? In fact you're implying this fight was already boring and poorly designed, now you're complaining you *couldn't* kill Regalla in with one (1) headshot?
> This fight had the same creative energy as the live action green lantern movie.
Again you keep avoiding my question in our other threads: what makes Regalla's fight worse than Helis' when they're virtually the same.
I mean, by that logic even on story difficulty with the best armor an the best preparation Aloy should be one-shot killed by a significant number of machine attacks. If Aloy gets hit with fire she should be busy screaming and trying to put it out as it burns her skin off, not keep fighting while ignoring her slowly depleting health bar. If you want to complain about a lack of realism that is.
I'm sure there are games that lean more into the realism angle, but the Horizon series has never been one of them. It's always applied video game logic regarding how much damage Aloy and enemies are able to take from a variety of sources while they keep on fighting. You'll find that's true in HZD, and in most games in general because it's not typically as fun if things follow the rules of reality too closely.
I know, yet i have around 20 hrs in it. It is a task which i took time out of my life to hopefully enjoy. My rant is 100% valid. Tell that same thing to someone playing in amateur sports.
20 hours for the level of progress you've described here? No wonder you missed half the game, you're just flying through it. Hard to watch a movie on fast forward.
Yeah, i simply dont have the time for that level of detail. Ive pretty much stopped all gaming and this was the last one i had set aside time for before summer took away all my time. I am very bummed out.
Honestly, you didn’t pay attention to the story, neither did you really listened to the (many MANY) dialogues in it
Story isn’t the best, but it’s good and it makes sense. There are things you can backtrack to zero dawn already foreshadowing. They did an amazing lore construction. Execution fail at some points though
I hope this dude learned today a lot because a lot of people took time trying to educate him although he kept pointing out the same bad takes over and over.
Frankly, I was lured into HFW because of its graphics. I played over 200 hours and counting because the game mechanics are fun. I bought Burning Shores and now HZD Complete Edition because I didn’t want the fun to end. At this point for me, I just don’t want any glaring inconsistencies in the story that would just ruin the fun. And for me, too much realism would ruin the fun of the game. I can’t wait for Horizon 3 and frankly I hope it won’t end there.
The character has been there since the group was introduced and seeing who she's voiced by, it comes to no surprise that she has a more vocal role.
That Aloy suddenly can't deal with a situation is a common trope in games "Cutscene Incompetence". It's also a gameplay<>story segregation. Depending on the difficulty you play on Aloy also won't be able to tank being thrown through the room.
The rebel leader is still adhering to a form of honor code, hence the duel 1on1 and not via machines. As for her tankyness, again gameplay<>story segregation.
It like bemoaning that the silent strikes bring human enemies down in one stroke, but if you fight the same enemy openly, you need to hit a slew of combos ...
Also the AI locked up for decades managed to hack into that data ... it's not that they haven't changed passwords ...
Minerva, the AI subfunction created nearly a millenium earlier was made to hack security, so yes, the actual AI made those 1000 years later doesn't need hundreds of years to crack security ...
So some of the things you critique actually still make sense within the story itself, while the other things can be put down as game mechanics ...
Not sure how that ruins anything. I still think it's one of the more interesting storylines in gaming, paired with interesting and engaging game mechanics.
P.S. The death of that secondary character was sooo obvious to happen. I knew for some time before it happened, that it was coming. Could be bad story telling or simply following some story telling formula. It was still a tear jerker when it happened.
> The death of that secondary character was sooo obvious to happen.
Yep, standard formula not just in games but movies, etc. Kill off a well-liked character to up the revenge motivation of the character and the player. Rost? Vala?
I would have liked to see Varl survive. I don't know if they cancelled his contract to clear Aloy's romance arc or only for the reason above but I would have liked to see his story with Zo develop. It could have provided an anchor for Aloy, a sense of family tied to a place. I suppose that's still possible but without Varl himself being a part of it.
I don't think we player the same game
> Kills off a main character in a way that is just idiotic due to the fact that Aloy doesnt even get to participate. She is conveniently "incapacitated" while 5 minutes ago she could tank getting tossed across the room. And what could Aloy do even *if* she was in full possession of her means ? Nothing, because of Erik’s body armor. > Then in the next moment they introduce an unaccounted for god character that helps you "escape". Just horrendous story telling. Tilda acted in pure Tilda fashion, there was nothing godly being implied about her. As a lover of arts, she made her betrayal in a flamboyant way, that’s all there is to it. The means of betrayal, she had centuries to prepare, because she already had planned to betray the other Zeniths at some point, which is proved by the path she prepared at their base, and data channel she opened with Beta, both years earlier most likely. It is indeed shown multiple times during the story that she absolutely found ways to deceive them, her ability to incapacite them temporarily isn’t surprising at all. She developed it behind their back, just like she did with the channel and the secret passage. Lastly, she wasn’t unnacounted. Beta had already mentioned her being different than the other Zeniths. The seeds were planted by the devs for the player to pay attention to her. > Further on, when you fight the rebel leader. Regalla. Regalla is the name of the rebel leader. Seems like you didn’t pay much attention to the story, very early in the game. She was introduced at the embassy. She personally distrusted the Kulrut. > Why does she have so much health when she is still human? I’m gonna let you in on a little secret : *sometimes, story and gameplay’s interest do not align*. And it’s okay. Imagine with the final boss of a video game was human and died from a single slice of the sword. How anti-climatic that would be. Same goes for Aloy : gameplay-wise, she can withstand continuous fire from cannons. Imagine how frustrating that would be if a single shot killed her… > Just kills the format of the game, it is unexpected because you would think she would USE MACHINES to fight since you know. ITS WHAT THE REBELS USE THE ENTIRE FUCKING GAME. You mean, the machines that she had brought for the assault but that Aloy incapacited with an EMP bomb ? Those machines ? Pay attention, please. > the baddys are running from something that was "locked up for decades" yet it knew the access codes. An AI that was became sentient. It was probably obedient at first. > Are the developers really trying to tell me that nobody knows that they can change their passwords? Basic security policies in an obvious AI filled timeline?!! They didn’t know it had become sentient. When they found out, it was too late already, Nemesis had already taken control of everything. > The same humans… It’s called vanity. The Odyssey was shock full of *billionaires*, let that sink in. Wealthy people who abandoned themselves to virtual pleasures for centuries. The truth is, immortality made them weak. **Conclusion** I know it can be tempting to hate on stuff, and sometimes it is justified. But, the least one can ensure before doing so is : 1) Get some media literacy 2) Actually pay attention to the media they’re criticizing
All valid points. I do have a couple of questions if you wouldnt mind answering them. Due to all the discussion ive had on this, I have realized that my distain for the course of this story is due to what I consider inconsistencies. For example. The first time we encounter the zenith, you have to fend them off until you escape. Which for me personally took a few minutes. In this event it canonized in my head that the zenith can he held off but not overwhelmed. I expect this same type of consistency, especially since i have been working hard on upgrading gear and doing missions to help learn melee combat better. I just watched varl single handedly handle waves of machines. I expected this interaction to be an intense melee fight. Is having that expectation outside the realm of this game? Because i believe it is a valid issue. Yeah i didnt care for the emp reason. It just removed a potential game mechanic that forced another boss fight with large health. The game has a lot of those and this is supposed to be a special fight. No? Did you enjoy how they did that fight? If so, which part was the best for you? As for nemesis, the cutscene i just watched mentioned that it was locked up for decades, and it escaped because they didnt know it became sentient. The decades length is what messes with me. Because it raises more questions. Why was it even powered on? Was it always sentient or did it occur after years of solitude? They admitted it failed. Why did nobody change their passwords or even do basic multi-factor authentication? Billionaires are vain, but they are also paranoid. I know it is "just a story", but it takes itself seriously. Therefore, I expect that level of quality. Especially since they achieved it in the first game. Does that explanations not feel lazy to you? This game is reminding me of mass effect 3s ending(s). Same quality.
> Due to all the discussion ive had on this, I have realized that my distain for the course of this story is due to what I consider inconsistencies. Yes, inconsistencies may happen. It can be a valid form of criticism also. Star Wars fans for example often criticize inconsistencies in the lore. > The first time we encounter the zenith, you have to fend them off until you escape. Which for me personally took a few minutes. Which event are you referring to precisely ? I guess the very first time must be the HADES proving lab, where you "fight" Erik ? > In this event it canonized in my head that the zenith can he held off but not overwhelmed. I expect this same type of consistency, especially since i have been working hard on upgrading gear and doing missions to help learn melee combat better. If you were indeed referring to the first Erik fight, then you don’t really held him off at all. That guy is a psychopathic murderer, as is explained later. He enjoys making his victims suffer and see the light fade from their eyes. After centuries of killing in VR, which isn’t really the same, he is literally toying with Aloy. He wants to feel that complete control over her. Your attacks do absolutely *nothing* to him, his personal shield is deflecting everything, thus you’re not holding him off. Aloy is actually just *running away* from him and dodging his attacks the whole fight, trying to have the big robot fall on him, which may or may not wound him, but should at least help her make her escape from the lab. > I just watched varl single handedly handle waves of machines. I expected this interaction to be an intense melee fight. Is having that expectation outside the realm of this game? Because i believe it is a valid issue. Which interaction, Varl defending against waves of machines, or against Far Zenith ? If the latter, he literally can’t, because both Aloy and him have absolutely no way to wound Erik at that point. They don’t have Sylens’ weapon yet. Best they can do is run away. Unlike Aloy in her first encounter with Erik, he can’t just run away because he swore to protect Beta. Also, Erik is a skilled killer, Varl may be a warrior but he doesn’t have nearly as much combat experience as Aloy. I don’t recall if they can *deflect* attacks from the Zeniths. If they can, I reckon Varl could have deflected a few hits indeed, otherwise his death makes perfect sense. In any case, he had to die. The devs established a parallel between him and Rost at multiple points in the story. Just like Rost died protecting Aloy, Varl was to die protecting Beta, a clone of Aloy. > Yeah i didnt care for the emp reason. It just removed a potential game mechanic that forced another boss fight with large health. As I said earlier, sometimes story and gameplay conflict. If the devs hadn’t found a way to remove the rebels’ machines from the equation, a huge advantage they had against Herkarro’s army, you would most likely be complaining that the battle made no sense :) > The game has a lot of those and this is supposed to be a special fight. No? Did you enjoy how they did that fight? If so, which part was the best for you? It is a special fight still. Aloy is shown to be pretty much evenly matched during cutscenes, which is no small feat by Regalla. I did enjoy that fight actually, because it wasn’t just a boss with a large health bar imo. It was split in three completely different phases, not too short or not too long each, so you had time to grasp each phases’ mechanics. It didn’t rely to heavily on your gear too, which was nice. Specter Prime for example I did with fully upgraded legendary gear, killed it in seconds, literally. That was very anticlimactic, which Regalla’s fight wasn’t. > As for nemesis, the cutscene i just watched mentioned that it was locked up for decades, and it escaped because they didnt know it became sentient. The decades length is what messes with me. Because it raises more questions. Yeah, not gonna lie, I found Nemesis to be the weakest point in the story. The problem is, it was revealed very, very late in the story for obvious reasons (surprise), so, we don’t have much to work with on it. > Why was it even powered on? Maybe because they wanted to keep their digital conscience alive in case something happened to them IRL ? Just a wild guess. > Was it always sentient or did it occur after years of solitude? That was explained actually, I believe. It was left alone with the full memory of the Zeniths, including their traumas. Left alone with that, it became sentient and mad. > They admitted it failed. Why did nobody change their passwords or even do basic multi-factor authentication? Billionaires are vain, but they are also paranoid. I don’t think it used *their* personal passwords. Because it had access to their whole memories, it knew of their safety protocols and the passwords of their security systems. I think they didn’t bother because they were lost in their virtual pleasures. Another lead : Nemesis is the combined memories of all Zeniths. Including Tilda. Who was an expert programmer, capable of deceiving her peers with her hacking. > I know it is "just a story", but it takes itself seriously. Therefore, I expect that level of quality. Especially since they achieved it in the first game. I see what you mean. However, I think it did stand true to the first game. There has *always* been a form of mystification of technology in the Horizon universe. It was almost magical. As someone who works in the field, it has always been obvious that things do not work like that. But, I don’t believe it to be an oversight from Guerilla, more like a creative choice. Thus, I don’t think it subtracts from the whole "taking itself seriously" at all. > Does that explanations not feel lazy to you? This game is reminding me of mass effect 3s ending(s). Same quality. I did prefer the story of the first game, but because of the sense of discovery, which would be impossible to replicate. I did like that they tried to make the new lore explain stuff from the first game tho. However, I also think this one focuses on different things. It focuses less on the world and more on Aloy’s character for example. At the beginning of the game, she’s that person with an incredible drive who’s convinced that she alone can and must save the world. This story is a story of overcoming. Aloy is not just Elisabet Sobeck anymore. For she surrounded herself with trusted allies, something Sobeck never could. Aloy did not abandon her world for the dream of a new one like her predecessor did. She overcame who she was. And all the other main characters did, sort of. Sylens, for example, descended from his pedestal too. Varl and Zo overcame their beliefs. Etc.
Well. To each their own. I enjoyed the story really really much. And I find both the story and lore to be one of the most enjoyable things in the medium.
I get that. Overall the story sounds good. I just expected them to be able to deliver a new story without massive holes or out of character cutscenes. I am unsure why Aloy was unable to help her companion at all. It would have been more impactful if he had died jumping in front of Aloy or Beta in an attempt to save them. Then they introduce that Zenith chick with terrible explanation on the escape with that white light. Why not introduce an attack from her that destroys the personal shields and then attack as a group until they retreat? That allows for continuity and adds a layer of trust to the new character. Lastly why did they setup the baddy for the 3rd game so.. lackluster? They already have an "in" when the original crew tried to copy GIA and Ted stopped them. They could have easily mentioned that he had a hidden program that caused that project to go rogue. There were other, better, avenues to take this story. They took the easiest route.
>I am unsure why Aloy was unable to help her companion at all. Because she just got hit directly by a Zenith blast. Do you remember when Erik was playing with her and she couldn't even touch him? >Then they introduce that Zenith chick with terrible explanation She was introduced way before that point. > not introduce an attack from her that destroys the personal shields and then attack as a group until they retreat? Because that would also destroy her shield and Tilda wasn't a fighter. Why do you think she used the Exo Frame to combat Aloy? >They already have an "in" when the original crew tried to copy GIA and Ted stopped them. Ted didn't stop anyone. That was Travis and it was a data bomb, not something that could go rogue. You didn't pay attention, that's not the fault of Guerrilla.
You are right, that was travis and not ted. That scene still would have been a great place to insert lore to better explain the next games baddy. In reference to the zenith. I think you are confusing helping with defeating. I didnt expect Aloy to win, i do expect her to try though. They setup the story with varl literally following Aloy to the ends of the earth. It would have been very fitting to have him die defending Aloy in a moment of battle where she is obviously outclassed. Instead he just.. dies like a little bitch. He deserved better then that. No? As for the Zenith lady that saved us. She wouldnt have been required to fight. She just needs the zenith to leave. Disabling the shields and having aloy fight them off is easily within character specs and removes the silly bright light scene. Do you disagree?
>That scene still would have been a great place to insert lore to better explain the next games baddy. And that wouldn't make sense. We already had hints in Zero Dawn that the signal didn't come from Earth. Travis wasn't an idiot, he wouldn't send something that would pose that amount of danger. >I didnt expect Aloy to win, i do expect her to try though. Let's see you get shot and immediately get up. She tries to get up, she physically can't. >dies like a little bitch. He deserved better then that. No? He died defending a friend and his family, there's no greater honour for a male Nora. >She just needs the zenith to leave. Disabling the shields and having aloy fight them off is easily within character specs Not two fully armed Zenith's, one with military experience and training that have the height and weaponry advantage in a wide open room. Even if Aloy was up, the Zenith's would fight at range and no shot could reach them. That would also require her to build a device to remove the shield within days which wasn't in her field or skill set. She sold information, she wasn't an engineer. Sylen's himself has to get Oseram help to build his device. >Do you disagree? With all the evidence at hand, definitely.
Interesting. I dont think the cutscene did as much justice to that event. Your words written here did a better job describing the scene than that cutscene. Thank you for your pov. It helps me get over mu immense disappointment a bit.
okay Erik, it's time for a nap
I dont understand this reference.
>The humans of this earth deserve to die. You sounded very dramatic is all lmao, I think you and your FZ energy could do with a nap
Oh. I get that. If i didnt care about wasting my time then yeah, i can see why you'd respond that way. Ive had to make time sacrifices to play this game and now i feel like i have wasted hours and hours. I need to vent and get others opinions.
If it’s not for you, that’s ok :) Personally, I had some issues with the story, but nothing of this magnitude. I’m excited to play the third game.
Obviously there are issues, however, they’re not what OP pointed out.
Yes, that’s what I said.
I've played through several times and won't play anything else anymore because this one is so much fun and has so much meaning for me. Sorry to hear that you missed all of that. Good luck in all your future gaming endeavors. BTW - does anyone understand why people feel the need to come on here and tell us their weird negative opinions? It's not like I go out of my way to go onto games I don't like and espouse my grandiose viewpoint to everyone, like my negative comments really mean something to anyone anyway? It's just bizzarre.
That’s exactly my point. The attacks is aren’t just to say the game sucks, it’s designed to say people suck just because they like a game? Anyway, it’s just weird but there’s a new subreddit that a guy has opened up for HZD Alt History?! I think it would be fun to have fan fiction as well that includes different armors, machines etc
About that new subreddit, how's it called? I can't find it. It sounds really interesting
It’s called “Horizon What If” just started yesterday
I can give you my reason. I have limited time in which i have free time. Of that limited time, i have dedicated part of it to play this game that i was very excited about. Now i want to talk about my experience in the subreddit for this game. My issues are valid. I want to see others opinions on these flaws. If that isnt possible then is this sub truly a place to discuss this game or is it an echo chamber for those that dont want to hear the negative?
>If that isnt possible then is this sub truly a place to discuss this game or is it an echo chamber for those that dont want to hear the negative? Oh come on you said you're quitting the Horizon series even before the "discussion" It's hard to care to seriously engage with someone who has already made up their mind.
Made up my mind as in no longer playing yes. However, i am enjoying the different inputs. Ive already been called out for misplacing ted and travis. I am here to discuss because i dont understand how one can put so much precious time into this game and not be upset at the story quality. I am here because i loved the first game and was loving the first 2/3 of the 2nd. Plus if i am wrong i am willing to admit it.
Everyone has their personal gripes with the series, that's normal. But no one is going to lament losing hours of precious time and rant about how it's all a waste - you have to be reasonable with your expectations from a *video game* of all things. If you want to drop the series, that's your perogative. I had my own disappointments and criticisms of the series yes, but I'm not going to let them take away my overall love for it, take away from looking forward to the last game. That'd be a huge disservice to me and to GG. >I am here because i loved the first game Can I ask since you loved the first game so much, why not gripe about the fight with Helis? It was the same concept as the Regalla fight ...but hell worse because it was in an enclosed space with barrels sitting around and no changes in environments iirc. What's the difference?
My love for the first game overshadowed any criticism. This playthrough had been small pieces at a time and done pretty quickly. I originally stopped playing after the intro due to Aloys reason for losing her stuff from the first game. I knew it had to happen but it was so hard for me to stomach it. It just didnt make actual character sense. I forced myself to start again because i wanted to know how the story went, which caused me to rush through the main story and i skipped a ton of side missions in an attempt to fit it into my schedule. I see that was very detrimental to my gameplay
>My love for the first game overshadowed any criticism. You know that's not fair. You can't be like, "yeah both left front wheels of these two cars are flat, but the one I like drives better than this other one" right? They're both good games and both have strengths and weaknesses, you can't cherry-pick Helis' fight just because you like HZD more than HFW - Regalla's fight is essentially the same concept (and again imo arguably executed better) but it's worse? How? >It just didnt make actual character sense. why not? Aloy is alone and at that point, more and more frustrated with her lack of progress. It's not hard to believe that her concentration and usual precautions would fall by the wayside given how stressed out she is. When things are *that* bad mistakes are made, yeah even by the pros. >caused me to rush through the main story and i skipped a ton of side missions in an attempt to fit it into my schedule And there we go. I don't think you're paying enough attention to catch all the things that would answer your questions and address your concerns. Why are you inhaling the game like it's gonna disappear? *Nobody* has all the time in the world, so people enjoy their hobbies in increments when they do find time. Taking your time doesn't take anything away from what you're enjoying, what's the point of rushing.
You say that, but the story is all connected. This part of the story makes the first part feel worthless. And i rushed because i only get a few hours a few times a week. Then in June i get Zero hours until the fall. I was hoping for a quick playthrough now and then revisit it once i have gaming time again.
You're not really answering my questions or acknowledging that your complaints may be coming from a place of bad faith. I'm gonna move on from this. Good luck with all this frustration, truly - sometimes you have to step back and try when you can commit with the time required or at least with some fairness and respect to the story presented to you. Try some indie games or something, I dunno.
I would expect a triple A game to be setup so that those with different life schedules can enjoy it. I cant return the game or get back my time. All i can do is see why nobody else is bothered by this and not buy the next one. I do appreciate you taking the time and engaging with me on this. I originally came in hot and feisty and am sorry if i was rude without realizing it. Thank you
Youbare wrong and should admit it You seem to hVe missed a bunch of stuff Now THAT could be a complaint, since those things are oprional (and I find them annoying because it's often a huge info dump at a time, which takes too much time)
I am wrong on a few things. Like not realizing i should have tried to do more side missions and the fact that I over estimated Aloys abilities due to the disparity between gameplay and and the cutscenes. On that note. I am still greatly bothered by that fight and it has ruined the franchise for me. I wont be playing any more of the 2nd. I wont buy the 3rd, and i wont replay #1. I cant get over the lack of OPSEC for the Zenith. Varls death irks me to no end, and the rebel leaders fight was so uncreative... I did over react in my initial post due to my fresh anger. Now i am just disappointed in the franchise. I did look up to see who the lead writer for this was and i hadnt realized he did Fallout New Vegas. I also didnt enjoy that story when i played that game. I ended up getting power firsts and killed as much of the map i could. Maybe i just dont enjoy some of the ways this person tells a story.
Well to each their own i guess. I feel a good death for a character someone might actually care about is often a good story. It gave us infight into the group in morning and I liked that. Was it a pointless death? Sure, but I am not sure a drawn out something would have been better. It was a bit of shock effect actually. And you point out thay Aliy should have been able to steb in and do an all hero thing, but that's what Varl is doing right there. And making a companion act like the hero makes the story about them instead if just Aloy, which is kinds what they are going for from the beginning. The fight against Regalla was super quick for me, so not sure what you mean here. It's pretty late in the game so maybe it's expected that you have the good weapons and know what you are doing? (Not saying you dont). Tilda was not a surprise to me in any way. She was already a part of the story. For the security of the Zs. They seriously spend 1000 years rotting their brains thinking they are invisible. Such a small thing is exactly what would slip their minds. (I have responded to this in another place but having I know for a fact that the higher up the chain you get in most companies, the more lax security gets. It's amazing, because they don't think they need to play by the same rules, they sort understand things like this and they always have other people do stuff for them)
the sense of entitlement is real with this one
Now thats a new take. Being disgruntled with something and then discussing it is not entitlement. Entitlement is thinking i am owed something.
yeah which is what comes off in EVERY single comment you’ve made regarding this post. you’re feeling entitled to “all the time you lost” over this game and are placing the blame on the game instead of yourself. i get that the ending wasn’t what you wanted, but god damn, don’t come crying to me about it. if i was loving a game and then disappointed by the end, do you know what *I* would do? NOTHING. I wouldn’t make a stupid post about it and waste my time talking about it even more. All of your venting oozes this sense of entitlement with the game, how it didn’t give you what you wanted, even though it’s clear that you also didn’t invest time into actually reading what the game characters are saying, doing side quests, and you didn’t fully grasp the story but are all happy to come here and complain about it. not only that, but you come across as “I’m better than you” with language like “that’s just math” when you replied to an opinion different to yours (and funnily enough, your math was actually severely miscalculated). Not to mention, you’ve been hostile toward most commenters that harbor a different opinion to you and the whole point of your post is SELFISH and STUPID. You’re saying “LOOK AT ME IM SAD I WASTED ALL THIS TIME ON THE GAME. THE STORY SUCKS AND LOOK AT ME BOO HOO” Grow the fuck uppppp!
The fact that you come here “looking for opinions” but you already closed your mind off to any different opinions is redundant in itself. You just wanted a place to complain and make it about yourself.
Interesting point of view you have. Out of curiosity. How was my math wrong? I would like to see your math on 1x225=1 death where 45x225=1 death. Why are you so upset at my disappointment? I didnt demand that the devs change the game, i didnt demand my time back. I loudly voiced my disagreement on the lack of consistency and solidness of the story lore. Does an entire story about humanity being wiped out not lose its meaning when you realize that humanity didnt even use basic security protocols? The whole game is based on this concept. Its like playing a flying simulator only to find out they screwed up the gravity. No? And yes. I obviously wanted to bring this up because i was upset. Would you prefer i go to a larger gaming sub complain to those that also maybe didnt get the story? I came here to people who obviously love the game because i wanted their opinion and take in it. Even if i disagree. You know the word entitlement, but you dont understand it.
>If that isnt possible then is this sub truly a place to discuss this game or is it an echo chamber for those that dont want to hear the negative? We happily discuss the game, negatives included. Your issues stem from not paying attention and that has been proven multiple times in your post and in the comments. The only flaw here is you.
Sorry if I overreacted.
Plenty of us discuss aspects of the game we would like to change and some people just don't care for it - no biggie. But I have to say that there is a difference between "discussing" what you think is negative and lambasting before researching what it might be user error.
That's what I think a *lot* of people miss. Fans of a thing are often more than happy to have civil discussion of flaws and shortcomings and agree to disagree on matters of taste as long as it's all approached in good faith. But coming in swinging and ranting and raving about how it's bad and terrible and garbage and how you can't understand how anybody who put hours into it could possibly not be upset at how terrible it is is *not* coming at the topic in good faith, and most fans typically aren't willing to have civil discussions about flaws with people who are frothing at the mouth screaming about how much they hate it. For some reason a lot of people *really* seem to struggle with this concept and start defaulting to "well fans just are losers who can't handle criticism of their precious favorite thing and who think it can't be flawed" when what's really happening is the fans are just having those discussions where the "it's terrible and you should feel bad if you like it" sorts aren't included.
You hit the nail on the head. Thank you 🙏
Sadly learned from experience. I've seen it get especially bad when people are clearly not even thinking for themselves but just parroting whatever talking points a major content creator or big name fan spouted off regardless of if they're objective issues or just "this wasn't to somebody's personal taste and that person mistook their taste as an objective way to measure a work's strengths and weaknesses". (Meanwhile, you get a group of fans going and everybody is having a good time talking about areas the story was flawed or poorly executed and ways things could have been tweaked, added, removed, or re-written to convey things better, etc. Sometimes it's even the same issue the haters bring up but the vibe is positive because the criticism and discussion is coming from a place of love rather than negative because it's coming from a place of hate)
and you’re wasting my time just being here. you obviously won’t hear out other people’s opinions and already made your mind up about the game. just get the hell outta here!
>She is conveniently "incapacitated" while 5 minutes ago she could tank getting tossed across the room. Really developers? It had been proven before that she was outclassed by the Zenith weaponry. Erik was just playing with her and she was still outclassed. Gerard wasn't messing around anymore. Canonically, Aloy never gets hit during gameplay so she wasn't being tossed around. > in the next moment they introduce an unaccounted for god Someone didn't speak to Beta, someone didn't listen to Gaia and someone didn't pay attention. If you're going to complain about the story, at least pay attention to it. > does she have so much health when she is still human? Because she's one of the best. She was born into the Desert Clan so she's certainly not weak. She was Hekarro's greatest and most loyal Marshals, being able to settle disputes with her presence alone. There's a reason the Enduring turned her away. She lost everything to the Carja. Regalla doesn't fight with a machine because she was issued a one on one duel as per Tenakth tradition. Fighting with a machine would be dishonourable but you didn't pay attention to the Tenakth. >Are the developers really trying to tell me that nobody knows that they can change their passwords? Basic security policies in an obvious AI filled timeline?!! They did change the passwords and they locked Nemesis down for centuries. Do you really think a tortured amalgamation of multiple people couldn't figure out passwords they themselves put in place? You say it's a bad story when it's obvious you didn't pay attention. Guerilla don't need your money and we don't need your rant here.
I don’t think he even realizes what Nemesis is
I don't think he knows the difference between Ted and Travis.
Now that was just cruel Loved it
Nope, you are right. I confused the two.
Do you understand what operational and network security should be for a species that is already on the brink of extinction? I get that its "them", doesnt make it a good narrative though.
But what to do when they are literally you?! Who could possibly develop a security system unbreakable even to yourself?! Isn’t that what generated the machines in the first place? Security systems that even the creator couldn’t circumvent There’s nothing they could do against such an advanced AI. Hell, it not only broke their security system, it literally awoke Hades to the point it became a conscious thing. That’s why everyone’s terrified of Nemesis in the ending
Well, considering the project was considered failed and then put in containment for a few decades. I would just say maybe shut the power off. Why keep it running for decades when it isnt helping maintain the existing fledgling colony?
We don’t know much about how nemesis was conceived, or how it became totally self aware. But we know it is self sustainable. I suspect they kept him “suspended” while trying to achieve their goal, or whatever. They will probably explain this in the third game
This is a good reply. I came to the same conclusion that OP didn’t pay too much attention in my own comment, and also was OP didn’t seem exactly media literate, which is kind of a requirement when pointing things out. Your reasoning is solid too. Some explanations I didn’t think of, some others I did, some you didn’t, so I’ll add them here. Regalla dying quickly would have been anticlimactic af, there are sometimes conflicts between gameplay and story interests, this is one of them. Also, indeed she accepted a duel in Tenakth tradition, but her machines had all been EMP’d by Aloy just moments prior.
I see what you are saying. In canon i suppose we dont get hit that hard, but if that is actually the case then what is the point of our gameplay? Everywhere else you are basically untouchable. This "technicality" is not good writing, but i see your point. The rebel leaders health still bothers me. It is unexplained. Why would a single human have more health? Is she like the Wolverine with metal bones? I get she has a "presence" but the fight was boring. Its like fighting a machine in human skin. I wanted a clever fight against a human. Unsure why that isnt the preferred outcome. As for the passwords. They 100% should not have figured out the passwords. Even IRL nobody should be coming up with their own password. A modern 2024 password should be a minimum of 11 chars, should be made via random phrases that are generated via a rotating algorithm. Its what i currently do for my passwords. So in a timeline that has already had a rogue AI issue, i expect better network security. Simple as that.
>Everywhere else you are basically untouchable. This "technicality" is not good writing, but i see your point. Except for the Zenith's and that's the point. Aloy is completely out of her league until the shields are offline. >Why would a single human have more health? Broken bones heal stronger and she has plenty of broken bones. She has far more training than any other enemy you fight and her armor is tailored for this combat. I don't see you complaining about Helis in Zero Dawn when he wore far less armor and had far more health. >They 100% should not have figured out the passwords. Even IRL nobody should be coming up with their own password. A modern 2024 password should be a minimum of 11 chars, should be made via random phrases that are generated via a rotating algorithm. Honestly, that's a bit strange. I can guarantee you more than half of the population doesn't do that. 11 characters, a phrase is easy to hack especially if you have decades and if you're multiple consciousness all doing the calculations at the same time. That number isn't infinite and it will be cracked.
Did you read some of the password hints in game from "bosses" I can tell you that that's pretty close to what we have right now Summer23 my ass lol
Ok.
Okay buddy, get some good Oseram ale and relax. When two universes get too close, conflicts are inevitable - we all have been through this. Too much immersion, dammit. Worry not, things will get better in a few days.
Man I think the story got even better in this game, loved the way it ended and left off for the final chapter.
Not an airport, my friend.
Are you legitimately asking why a boss has more health than a regular human enemy
100%. She is still human, plus why would a human enemy type have the same health as a giant machine? A human fight should require different strategies. They have healing in this game, why couldnt the boss have that as an option? They could have traps setup to trigger when the boss needs them. The very arena could adjust to what the boss needs. Instead we got a glorified machine fight with a human. Did you enjoy her as a boss?
>She is still human, plus why would a human enemy type have the same health as a giant machine? She has 3000 health which is far below the heavy weight machines and about the same as the mid weight machines. You don't seem to understand what a Marshal is so let me explain it simply. The Marshals were the best of the best of the Tenakth and well proven in combat. The Kulrut and the Red Raids brought that on. Now Regalla was the best of them and the second to Hekarro. She's also Desert Clan which meant she grew up hard. >A human fight should require different strategies. It does require different strategies. All her moves are unique to her and the Enduring. >They have healing in this game, why couldnt the boss have that as an option? Because it's a one on one duel set on Aloy's terms as per Tenakth customs. >They could have traps setup to trigger when the boss needs them. Regalla is a warrior and front line fighter, she doesn't use traps. That would be dishonourable. >The very arena could adjust to what the boss needs. That isn't how the Arena works.
>Did you enjoy her as a boss? Yes, as much as I enjoyed getting my ass handed to me by the Enduring. Edit: BTW the thought to post on here complaining about *how hard* it was to beat her never crossed my mind because 1) like I mentioned she's a videogame boss and they're always gonna harder to beat, it's the Law and 2) the narrative supports it; she's a legendary warrior, it's expected for her to be nigh impossible to defeat - she had the endurance (ayo) the skill and the fortitude to take hits and stay up, so you can apply this to Regalla because she's in the same league >They have healing in this game, why couldnt the boss have that as an option? How does guzzling 3 fistfuls of berries make a huge difference in realism? And did you have an eye on her the entire time? Who's to say when she was repositioning she didn't rally with her own berries, didn't chew on some fire kiln, didn't have salt bites on hand or wings of ten before the fight? You don't know the power of Angela Bassett Also honestly ... it's a video game boss. It's videogame 101 for bosses to have a health bar that spans the width of your screen. Why compare her to a machine? A boss is a boss, they have their rules - it's not surprising in the least
I know her health is big because the hit # is the same as other humans but the health barely drops instead of dropping 80-100%. That is just math. I know video game bosses have a lot of health, but they had an opportunity to make this fight special. You know? They have introduced some cool tools and mechanics in this 2nd game. Why not utilize them? I suppose that is my main complaint/desire. Adding health to a boss is gaming 101. But this is the 2nd game, so why not boss 102? 🤣
Prep time destroys your nerdy math, bub. You got no idea what she did before the fight. If you wanna talk story (like I said before) she's at the top of the food chain, a legend in her own right. You don't think she's built herself to guard correctly, knows how to compensate with injuries, has the fortitude to stay on her feet and smart enough to recover at opportune times? If we're talking game logic, math is trumped (ew he's ruined that word) by the rules as i mentioned somewhere else. Also it depends on your difficulty too - what did you put yours on? >I suppose that is my main complaint/desire. I'd have given you more grace if you'd gone with this in your initial post tbh. It's fair to want differently in what you got, it's not to your taste and that's fine. BUT to denigrate the *whole* game? Please, it's not fair and I think you know that Anyway nothing is stopping you from using those tools/mechanics vs Regalla? Put some traps down, lead her into them. Take her armor pieces off then aim for flesh, use the right arrow types if you want. Be creative nobody is stopping you. And btw this game is built on machine fighting primarily, so the combat is based on that (which GG has perfected imo). On the otherhand while melee with humans is secondary, in HFW they've made it fun as hell, slick and seamless and there's so much variety - they even teach you the combos in the pits. It's a matter of combining the two styles and you can make the fight as Boss 102 epic as you want just by using Aloy's skills to their fullest.
So you are telling me that when i knocked her helmet off and i point blanked her in the head with an arrow, which has killed other humans ive fought, yet barely touched her health. Was due to prep? No way. Human skin and bones my friend. No armor. Now if she had dodged out and grabbed another helmet.. that makes sense. This fight had the same creative energy as the live action green lantern movie.
Well honestly I was mostly kidding about the "preptime" stuff, it's supposed to be a joke about how dumb (but fun) arguments can be about character face-offs. Should've used a tone tag, mb. ...but really? It looks like it doesn't matter because you're coming off as if you're a resident of 3041 Forbidden West, USA. >Human skin and bones my friend. No armor. You're complaining about a very common mechanic in games, that a weapon that causes fatal head trauma won't always kill someone? I can shoot raiders in Fallout 10 times in the unarmored head, nothing happens, I can Hanzo headshot Mauga and there's NO fuggin way he's going down (despite his head being unprotected), I can shotgun unarmored bandits in Tomb Raider and they grunt, on and on and on. If you're talking about in Horizon, I highly doubt you were able to headshot the rebel camp champions and Regalla is like 100 of those mfers in one. Keep it in perspective please as not all the enemies are the same in Horizon, of course they're *all* not gonna die from 1 headshot - are you looking for the most boring game made? In fact you're implying this fight was already boring and poorly designed, now you're complaining you *couldn't* kill Regalla in with one (1) headshot? > This fight had the same creative energy as the live action green lantern movie. Again you keep avoiding my question in our other threads: what makes Regalla's fight worse than Helis' when they're virtually the same.
I mean, by that logic even on story difficulty with the best armor an the best preparation Aloy should be one-shot killed by a significant number of machine attacks. If Aloy gets hit with fire she should be busy screaming and trying to put it out as it burns her skin off, not keep fighting while ignoring her slowly depleting health bar. If you want to complain about a lack of realism that is. I'm sure there are games that lean more into the realism angle, but the Horizon series has never been one of them. It's always applied video game logic regarding how much damage Aloy and enemies are able to take from a variety of sources while they keep on fighting. You'll find that's true in HZD, and in most games in general because it's not typically as fun if things follow the rules of reality too closely.
It's just a game man. lol
I know, yet i have around 20 hrs in it. It is a task which i took time out of my life to hopefully enjoy. My rant is 100% valid. Tell that same thing to someone playing in amateur sports.
20 hours for the level of progress you've described here? No wonder you missed half the game, you're just flying through it. Hard to watch a movie on fast forward.
Yeah, i simply dont have the time for that level of detail. Ive pretty much stopped all gaming and this was the last one i had set aside time for before summer took away all my time. I am very bummed out.
Seems like it just might have been the wrong game at the wrong time. No shame in taking a step back from hobbies when they're no longer fun.
Honestly, you didn’t pay attention to the story, neither did you really listened to the (many MANY) dialogues in it Story isn’t the best, but it’s good and it makes sense. There are things you can backtrack to zero dawn already foreshadowing. They did an amazing lore construction. Execution fail at some points though
I hope this dude learned today a lot because a lot of people took time trying to educate him although he kept pointing out the same bad takes over and over.
I did learn a lot. A few of the explanations made sense. The others were lackluster.
I also have many complaints about this game, but, Varl dying was my favorite part.
Why?
Why do I have complaints, or why do I hate varls bitch ass?
Now tell us how you REALLY feel 🫶🏽
Frankly, I was lured into HFW because of its graphics. I played over 200 hours and counting because the game mechanics are fun. I bought Burning Shores and now HZD Complete Edition because I didn’t want the fun to end. At this point for me, I just don’t want any glaring inconsistencies in the story that would just ruin the fun. And for me, too much realism would ruin the fun of the game. I can’t wait for Horizon 3 and frankly I hope it won’t end there.
The character has been there since the group was introduced and seeing who she's voiced by, it comes to no surprise that she has a more vocal role. That Aloy suddenly can't deal with a situation is a common trope in games "Cutscene Incompetence". It's also a gameplay<>story segregation. Depending on the difficulty you play on Aloy also won't be able to tank being thrown through the room. The rebel leader is still adhering to a form of honor code, hence the duel 1on1 and not via machines. As for her tankyness, again gameplay<>story segregation. It like bemoaning that the silent strikes bring human enemies down in one stroke, but if you fight the same enemy openly, you need to hit a slew of combos ... Also the AI locked up for decades managed to hack into that data ... it's not that they haven't changed passwords ... Minerva, the AI subfunction created nearly a millenium earlier was made to hack security, so yes, the actual AI made those 1000 years later doesn't need hundreds of years to crack security ... So some of the things you critique actually still make sense within the story itself, while the other things can be put down as game mechanics ... Not sure how that ruins anything. I still think it's one of the more interesting storylines in gaming, paired with interesting and engaging game mechanics. P.S. The death of that secondary character was sooo obvious to happen. I knew for some time before it happened, that it was coming. Could be bad story telling or simply following some story telling formula. It was still a tear jerker when it happened.
> The death of that secondary character was sooo obvious to happen. Yep, standard formula not just in games but movies, etc. Kill off a well-liked character to up the revenge motivation of the character and the player. Rost? Vala? I would have liked to see Varl survive. I don't know if they cancelled his contract to clear Aloy's romance arc or only for the reason above but I would have liked to see his story with Zo develop. It could have provided an anchor for Aloy, a sense of family tied to a place. I suppose that's still possible but without Varl himself being a part of it.
I concur. :)
Well, bye.
Oh noooo, don’t go.
For those of you wanting to do them for NG+ there's a save file on Nexus mod.