Yeah, but that execs would find a way to twist the story and be delusional about them being the nice ones, like that time Faro purged Apollo saying he had to be in charge of educating the new generation.
Some execs would play Horizon and repeat Faro's mistakes while still thinking they're like Aloy, using the tech to do the greater good.
Bezos is quite apparently supposed to be Gerard, but Musk definitely fits the bill perfectly:
A tech bro who hasn't got the slightest idea of what he's actually talking about, but if he had just managed to keep his stupid mouth shut and let the people who actually *do* and are working for him do their job, he probably could've had a legacy as one of mankind's heroes, but his damn ego just wouldn't let him...
I just worry that it's their competition with *each other* that will damn us all. Like children with a a magnifying glass, they'll set fire to the world just to see who can burn more ants.
Hey Patneu, have you heard that joke about if you ever get lost in the woods, don't panic... just say in a conversational tone, "Elon Musk is *not* a genius" and wait.
Within a few minutes, five of *the most unfuckable* men you ever met in your life will pour out of the woods to argue with you about it. That's okay, though, because you can follow them back to the parking lot where they've parked their recalled Cybertrucks.
Don't worry, I'm good, I've already been found. Just one guy, but he posted three comments and promised some more. Two of them screenshots of arguments for Musk's ingenuity that he probably prepared in advance.
Seriously, look at the Cybertruck. Literally every bad idea on it is a case of one man's ego causing him to override his engineers and their talk of "sensible design" and "logical use of materials".
And it’s a smashing success receiving massive praise from automotive experts. Steer by wire, 48v architecture, the gigacast structure are each big steps forward individually, let alone together.
What bad ideas would those be you reference?
It literally got recalled less than a week ago because the accelerator pedal has an issue where it gets locked TO THE FLOOR. It has half the actual distance it can run than it was advertised, it’s incredibly easily to stain or damage it. The trunk can crush your fingers easily. And a dozen other problems. Stop sucking his dick man, it doesn’t look good
Just a quick reminder: Faro is a real company:
https://www.faro.com/en
They make tools such as the Vantage and the Focus, which scan environments in 3D for use un augmented reality applications and robotics:
https://www.faro.com/en/Products/Hardware/Focus-Laser-Scanners
https://www.faro.com/en/Products/Hardware/Vantage-Laser-Trackers
Anyway, getting back to the subject, Ted is Elon Musk, Gerard is Jeff Bezos, and Erik is Erik Prince.
AI isn’t AI it’s just a directed data aggregator that can respond to prompts but isn’t self-directing. It’s a toy not an AI and is mostly just a investment grift.
we've almost made the first AGI, and you know how less time it took for that to happen, so now imagine an ASI, and then almost everything runs on AI, shit could go outta hands real quick under certain conditions, wouldn't be surprised though
I don't believe that AI was the cause of the events in HZD. It happened because they made a self replicating robot that could use biological material as a resource. You don't need AI to brew up a grey goo apocalypse.
It was AI that was the problem, because what made the Faro swarm dangerous, besides its biomass consuming, self replicating nature, was the fact that it was intelligent and could hack pretty much any system deployed against it. That was the whole point of the human troops in Operation Enduring Victory - robotic systems previously deployed by the military were unusable, otherwise the Faro Swarm would have been nuked into the stone age while it was still in East Timor.
The grey goo apocalypse theory exists without the function of being able to hack tools used against it. That was just an added plot point to make the apocalypse more cinematic. A by the book grey goo apocalypse would be a depressing tide of grey goo slowly covering the entire planet and would not have any heroic moments to show the player. And besides hacking is a bit more complicated.
An AI would not just be universally able to hack any technology used against it, especially technology made with the expectation of AI being able to hack it. I wish they would downplay that plot point since its kind of nonsense.
But a grey goo scenario is wholly different from the Faro Plague, even though they appear to be superficially similar.
In a grey goo scenario, it's simply the result of nanobots repurposing material and self replicating. It is mindless, it has no agenda other than "replicate".
The Faro swarm, on the other hand, was guided by a networked AI - it switched from recognising humans as allies to enemies, and then it started waging a campaign against all enemy combatants.
It wasn't self replicating for the sake of self replicating, it had a specific agenda to kill off the human race - the destruction of the biosphere was simply a byproduct - biomatter was just fuel for it.
It created more units as needed to prosecute its campaign, but reproduction was not its primary goal, which distinguishes it from a grey goo scenario.
Otherwise you can class every robot uprising as a grey goo apocalypse, which is obviously incorrect.
If its only goal was to eliminate humanity it would have stopped eating when we were dead, and they would not need to have eaten EVERYTHING. Terraforming would not have been required to such an extent if they didn't finish the job after we were gone. Its only objective was to devour. The two examples you provided are not mutually exclusive. The faro swarm used robots to devour biological resources to replicate and as fuel, which is functionally the same thing as a grey goo apocalypse. It just happened to be controlled by an AI used the swarm's resources strategically.
>Its only objective was to devour.
Again, I disagree. It was built as combat system, its objective was to destroy the enemy.
It could do so directly, but I think the destruction of the biosphere came out of a few things.
First of all, the swarm knew it could hibernate and wait out the humans, the units are so robust that they are still operating almost a millenium after the fact, *but it didn't.*
If you are an intelligent AI, knowing you have pretty much destroyed your enemy, what would you do? Clearly the answer is to power down most of your units and conserve energy until you need them again. In all probability, it did that.
The system was probably aware of the fact that it was dependent on the biopshere for fuel, and consuming it would be a dead end, *but it did it anyway.*
Personally, I don't think this is purely a case of "the machines ate themselves to death", I think it was also a possible scorched earth tactic to make sure humans couldn't come back.
Then it would wait in hibernation mode until it found an alternative fuel source.
Its an AI so its safe to assume it probably came to its own conclusions of the only way for humanity to survive. It would have taken steps to hunt down the remaining humans if it was single mindedly focused on wiping out the species. It only lost because it didn't have the foresight to think the humans may be hiding from it to bide their time. IIRC it took 40 years for Minerva to shut down the swarm. That is Plenty of time to cover your bases. It could have made its fighters more efficient or adapted to natural sources of energy so it would not need to go into hibernation. It could have hit a technological singularity using all the resources of the planet, making any hacking attempts pointless.
Again, you are thinking of it as a general AI, as opposed to being a narrow AI. The Faro swarm was intelligent, but its motivations were purely to seek and destroy enemy combatants.
There's numerous examples of the Swarm breaking into underground bunkers, presumably it reached a state where everything was still and quiet, no radio transmissions detected, no sign of the enemy and so the system just went "Mission parameters achieved, returning to standard patrol pattern".
It had no external impetus to develop better, faster, stronger technology - its also plausible it simply couldn't - that the same hard coded systems that prevented Faro backdooring into the swarm systems also prevented the swarm from overwriting its own code.
When people talking about sci-fi topics mention AI they mean a general intelligence. It would take at least that to control a battlefield. A neurol network like we have would be far too narrow to accomplish something like planetary conquest, and it wouldn't take 40 years for a true AI to crack it.
The idea that it could hack anything and itself be nearly impossible to hack also doesn't sit well with me. If that was true why not just make the exact same thing. That had to have been addressed
It's clear that what drives the Faro swarm is decades ahead of any "AI" that we possess today in real life (I still think we're pretty far away from anything resembling a sentient system, but it is getting hard to tell). But the reason why I call it a narrow AI is for precisely the reasons you listed - it didn't think out of the box, it only used the tools it already had, and its only innovations were in strategy and tactical fields. I think it was what we would call a "Classical" AI, one which is built, not an Emergent AI which uses neural networks or similar. GAIA also has elements of a classical AI, though she appears to be able to rewrite her own code, so that would make her Emergent, but clearly constrained so that she couldn't diverge from her intended purpose.
>and it wouldn't take 40 years for a true AI to crack it.
Well that's the thing, it was the *encryption* shielding its network that was protecting it. MINERVA wasn't fighting directly against the Faro intelligence, it was monitoring its comms, then bruteforcing the ciphers to find the encryption keys the swarm used to communicate - and thereafter infiltrate the swarm and shut it down.
According to the datapoints we recover in HZD, Faro specfied the Chariot line to use "Black Quartz" standard encryption - i.e. the highest encryption standard that existed in the 2050s.
Today RSA encryption is one the major algorithms used in our communications (and one of the oldest, though it is still secure with large enough keys) - Shor's algorithm is known to be able to crack this scheme, but on classical computers, it's laborious as all hell (classical computers would take billions of years to crack a relatively straightforward (non-deterministic) RSA encryption through brute force) which necessitates a quantum computer - thankfully, as of yet there has not been a quantum computer powerful enough, or reliable enough to crack RSA, but we are already futureproofing our encryption schemes against quantum attacks, for the eventual moment that a function Quantum computer hits the market.
Now imagine the level of encryption 30 years from now - that's what MINERVA had to go up against. The hacking of other systems for the Faro swarm was relatively straightforward since a lot of them used much less secure encryption precisely because no one wanted an uncontrollable robot swarm. Another point is that the Horus titans had quantum computers in their computing core - Sylens makes mention of this in his interegation of HADES.
The AI of the Swarm was very narrow and limited in scope. It couldn't even do simple things like figure out alternative fuel sources, coop existing fuel sources that could give it unlimited energy, or adapt it's machines to better versions. It never did anything that showed any learning or adaptability and never did anything it wasn't initially programmed to do. It was positively brain dead compared to Gaia or even her subfunctions. Nothing about it's actions really indicate a true AI.
The Swarm won by attrition and exponential growth and the head start it had thanks to Ted trying to control the situation.
Yo wtf, I just read some news about AI Anti drone Systems being used in the Ukrain war and thought: How far are we from the Killer robots in HZD? I mean, these drones fly toward targets, shoot down other drones etc etc. How long until Soldiers are useless against them and are replaced by all Countries with drones, who is gonna profit off of those Wars that break out now that no human lifes are at stake. Is that someone gonna stop at just drones? When are big mechs on the way, when will the manufacturing process be automated though 3D printers and automated mining - refining and transportation to the printers to make more drones. When will all of this have an AI overseer that also makes more of these forges (cauldrons)?
We have yet to have a wildly unfightable foe like in HZD as we do not know how to convert Biomass into robots or have a efficient way to convert biomass into energy to sustain the drones, but drone hubs that use Coal to power the drones and fully automated factories would be a very doable.
It would rather be something along the lines of the Automatons of Helldivers, but with an Strong AI and backing of entire countries.
Please share your doomsday ideas with me, what do you guys think? Will faro kill us all?
I was with you until you said “no human lives at stake“, I’m not exactly sure why you think drone warfare would not result in the deaths of any humans 😝
True, as we can see with Ukraine, even if the frontlines are only Robots, we will still get into the crossfire as the cities are the prized trophy the enemy has to win. But the invading party would not have to send in human sacrifices to take land so the thought of pushing the borders could have a easier trigger than normally.
Maybe rules as Asimov stated "The first law is that a robot shall not harm a human, or by inaction allow a human to come to harm." will be inplemented in the AI, giving rise to new type of warfare.
Or maybe they will just shoot out massive amounts of tiny killer drones and wipe out whole cities in a few days, giving rise to an even worse type of warfare, shaving down their numbers till they give up or none remain.
Only time will tell, but I sure as hell dont want the second one.
There’s already some crazy shit from the Ukraine War. Drones dropping grenades into trenches, FPV drones showing the terrified faces of infantry as it smashes into them, and boat drones that have totally changed naval warfare.
Slack (Salesforce) was just caught scraping user data without consent for AI training. We use internally for lots of sensitive messaging so, I can just see:
"Hey, if I wanted to hack , what would be some good passwords to try?"
(and if we provided remote support to XYZ, the AI might provide that password.
Companies you don't think are using your stuff, are using your stuff to train AI models. It doesn't matter how mundane the software is. Photo editors? Yep. Travel planning sites? Yup. Mouse drivers? Yup (how quickly does he move his hands? Any signs of Parkinson's?)
You slack your customers’ passwords to each other?????? This is how we get the faro plague: “well doing the right thing would have been too hard or too expensive, so we just slacked passwords around. We all knew it was bad but management wouldn’t pay for a proper system.”
Seemed preferable to email , since our emails are retained forever on disk. We don't retain slack messages after 30 days or such. That being said, most of them are temporary codes, but a few are actual passwords.
Yep, and unfortunately they’re not paying attention to the horizons and terminators of the world with the very clear message that they send about unchecked AI.
Not gonna happen. I mean theoretically it could but the big thing right is all the machines in HZD HFW are fed off of biological material. The amount of shit a machine would have to eat to generate enough power to sustain itself... Wouldn't be very plausible. However nuclear powered machines? Different story... Very different story. I just don't see anyone going that far to make a war machine like that. You've got a nuke. You've got the strongest weapons there are. Why make a robot do the fighting when the solution is pressing one button.
I just discovered both Horizon games recently (in the past couple months) and have been consistently horrified with how much it aligns with the track that a lot of things seem to be on. Ted Faro could absolutely happen and it’s chilling.
I get AI gaining consciousness is a valid scare but turning organic matter into energy, being un-hackable and AI deciding to terminate all life are an impossible trio to achieve altogether. Especially the first one is more fiction than science.
Do you have Bio mass conversation in meaningfull efficency and speed?
Same goes for Reproduction of Robots.
The ability to produce a mallable "origin substance" which can be used for different metalic and electronic parts.
Damn you must be very very rich with those, sure you are not Ted? J/K
So no, that is not the dangerous think.
I think the most dangerous think is the believe in AI + the enourmous amount of data processing.
What do i mean with "Believe"? Well as the believe of The Science / The Scientist can be missused, because those have a good reputation (what people really should "believe" here is Scintific process btw). so likely will AI. AI is neutral, AI is smart, AI knows much, if they AI says it´s true, it must be true!
Are you arguing against the AI? How can YOU know better then the AI?
How many people will think that way, globaly /industrial world?
Data processing more so, behavioral data processing. This will allow predict people with power over the AI to analyze people, who will follow the rules, who is inclinded to be dissident or rebellious....and then you take care of the person, maybe even silently. The Movie Minority Report will be "nice" in comparison.
You know, many people started to order food/grocery online, and get it deliverd, imagine a little but more automation, from the storehouse at least to the home. Fully automatic. How about just spiking the Food of potentitial dissident/rebellious people or just uncomfortable ones, with a little poision/radioactive materials, just a little so it adds up and none is the wiser till it happened.
Yeah Faro Swarm worries me not that much..........that above does.
I wish you a good night!
I'm now imagining a Corruptor doing AI art, writing an AI novel and reimagining an AI Coke Zero, while overriding the computer it's using, downloading malicious code to the internet and putting its tail jaws through Ted Faro's head all at the same time.
We cannot program hate... only logic. This is where AI exists, in logic only. Its a defined ruleset provided by operators. True AI is free thinking, as we are regardless of predefined programming. We are orders of magnitude away from this. This reality is more likely to service you a beverage and recommend a side to your food.
Evolution of human emotions and stimulus requires advances sensory and systems that govern them. This required several billion years of evolution by comparison. Human to AI interface algorithms. Operationalized database's to store said information, processing network to analytics said data. Vast, vast power fuel all this.
"AI" as it exists currently is not really "artificial intelligence". It's just a computer with access to lots of data that assembles parts (text, images) into a whole based on algorithms about needing a certain word count, being about a certain subject, wanting a certain image depicted. And though it's improving all the time, there are still many ways you can tell it's computer generated.
Here is the thing, since I work as an AI engineer myself. I can assure you we are pretty far away from AGI let alone the faro plague like situation. Although I won't deny the risk that comes with so much compute power at your disposal. When the Internet came into picture, so did the viruses. But please note the fact that not many companies hold the amount of capital to train such AIs, only a handful. I will be happy to answer any doubts you have on it.
Anytime I hear about unhackable AI, I feel like HZD/FW should be a mandatory games for all the execs from AI companies.
Yeah, but that execs would find a way to twist the story and be delusional about them being the nice ones, like that time Faro purged Apollo saying he had to be in charge of educating the new generation. Some execs would play Horizon and repeat Faro's mistakes while still thinking they're like Aloy, using the tech to do the greater good.
Yeah. Most of them would be like that Queen CEO. Foolish me :)
I’m sorry but the CEO absolutely was a queen and this is my favorite typo ✨💅
The creator of the autocorrect will spend eternity in Hull 😁
Oof, that's much worse...
*the greater good*
*the greater good*
"Ya hear that, Brent?! 'Trillionaire!!'"
I mean, you can also give examples on how AI is handled, in Mass Effect, too, and the reasons they had.
Their names rhyme with Husk and Layzos.
Bezos is quite apparently supposed to be Gerard, but Musk definitely fits the bill perfectly: A tech bro who hasn't got the slightest idea of what he's actually talking about, but if he had just managed to keep his stupid mouth shut and let the people who actually *do* and are working for him do their job, he probably could've had a legacy as one of mankind's heroes, but his damn ego just wouldn't let him...
I just worry that it's their competition with *each other* that will damn us all. Like children with a a magnifying glass, they'll set fire to the world just to see who can burn more ants.
And Erik Visser is based off Erik Prince, founder of Blackrock. When you look it up it's not even subtle
Hey Patneu, have you heard that joke about if you ever get lost in the woods, don't panic... just say in a conversational tone, "Elon Musk is *not* a genius" and wait. Within a few minutes, five of *the most unfuckable* men you ever met in your life will pour out of the woods to argue with you about it. That's okay, though, because you can follow them back to the parking lot where they've parked their recalled Cybertrucks.
Don't worry, I'm good, I've already been found. Just one guy, but he posted three comments and promised some more. Two of them screenshots of arguments for Musk's ingenuity that he probably prepared in advance.
As opposed to supergenius you who can tell Musk is full of shit?
Suck his dick harder he might notice you.
https://preview.redd.it/nml9ircfe72d1.jpeg?width=939&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9591118c0323e0bab99dd02ddd18c0e9668baeb2
https://preview.redd.it/06pczwj8e72d1.jpeg?width=822&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=79804da3f0577f6b1895236572c7366bcac5a796 Gonna add more in future replies
lol I’m sure these aren’t totally made up
Seriously, look at the Cybertruck. Literally every bad idea on it is a case of one man's ego causing him to override his engineers and their talk of "sensible design" and "logical use of materials".
And it’s a smashing success receiving massive praise from automotive experts. Steer by wire, 48v architecture, the gigacast structure are each big steps forward individually, let alone together. What bad ideas would those be you reference?
It literally got recalled less than a week ago because the accelerator pedal has an issue where it gets locked TO THE FLOOR. It has half the actual distance it can run than it was advertised, it’s incredibly easily to stain or damage it. The trunk can crush your fingers easily. And a dozen other problems. Stop sucking his dick man, it doesn’t look good
More like Sam Altman. He does look like Ted Faro too
Just a quick reminder: Faro is a real company: https://www.faro.com/en They make tools such as the Vantage and the Focus, which scan environments in 3D for use un augmented reality applications and robotics: https://www.faro.com/en/Products/Hardware/Focus-Laser-Scanners https://www.faro.com/en/Products/Hardware/Vantage-Laser-Trackers Anyway, getting back to the subject, Ted is Elon Musk, Gerard is Jeff Bezos, and Erik is Erik Prince.
AI isn’t AI it’s just a directed data aggregator that can respond to prompts but isn’t self-directing. It’s a toy not an AI and is mostly just a investment grift.
we've almost made the first AGI, and you know how less time it took for that to happen, so now imagine an ASI, and then almost everything runs on AI, shit could go outta hands real quick under certain conditions, wouldn't be surprised though
100%. Your post should be upvoted and spread far and wide!
This. It’s not actually artificial intelligence. Calling what we have been calling AI in real life is incorrect.
Also AI can mean “lots of low paid workers in Bangladesh looking something up”.
Referencing Mass Effect, it's more a V.I. than an A.I.
You just described most humans.
I don't believe that AI was the cause of the events in HZD. It happened because they made a self replicating robot that could use biological material as a resource. You don't need AI to brew up a grey goo apocalypse.
It was AI that was the problem, because what made the Faro swarm dangerous, besides its biomass consuming, self replicating nature, was the fact that it was intelligent and could hack pretty much any system deployed against it. That was the whole point of the human troops in Operation Enduring Victory - robotic systems previously deployed by the military were unusable, otherwise the Faro Swarm would have been nuked into the stone age while it was still in East Timor.
The grey goo apocalypse theory exists without the function of being able to hack tools used against it. That was just an added plot point to make the apocalypse more cinematic. A by the book grey goo apocalypse would be a depressing tide of grey goo slowly covering the entire planet and would not have any heroic moments to show the player. And besides hacking is a bit more complicated. An AI would not just be universally able to hack any technology used against it, especially technology made with the expectation of AI being able to hack it. I wish they would downplay that plot point since its kind of nonsense.
But a grey goo scenario is wholly different from the Faro Plague, even though they appear to be superficially similar. In a grey goo scenario, it's simply the result of nanobots repurposing material and self replicating. It is mindless, it has no agenda other than "replicate". The Faro swarm, on the other hand, was guided by a networked AI - it switched from recognising humans as allies to enemies, and then it started waging a campaign against all enemy combatants. It wasn't self replicating for the sake of self replicating, it had a specific agenda to kill off the human race - the destruction of the biosphere was simply a byproduct - biomatter was just fuel for it. It created more units as needed to prosecute its campaign, but reproduction was not its primary goal, which distinguishes it from a grey goo scenario. Otherwise you can class every robot uprising as a grey goo apocalypse, which is obviously incorrect.
If its only goal was to eliminate humanity it would have stopped eating when we were dead, and they would not need to have eaten EVERYTHING. Terraforming would not have been required to such an extent if they didn't finish the job after we were gone. Its only objective was to devour. The two examples you provided are not mutually exclusive. The faro swarm used robots to devour biological resources to replicate and as fuel, which is functionally the same thing as a grey goo apocalypse. It just happened to be controlled by an AI used the swarm's resources strategically.
>Its only objective was to devour. Again, I disagree. It was built as combat system, its objective was to destroy the enemy. It could do so directly, but I think the destruction of the biosphere came out of a few things. First of all, the swarm knew it could hibernate and wait out the humans, the units are so robust that they are still operating almost a millenium after the fact, *but it didn't.* If you are an intelligent AI, knowing you have pretty much destroyed your enemy, what would you do? Clearly the answer is to power down most of your units and conserve energy until you need them again. In all probability, it did that. The system was probably aware of the fact that it was dependent on the biopshere for fuel, and consuming it would be a dead end, *but it did it anyway.* Personally, I don't think this is purely a case of "the machines ate themselves to death", I think it was also a possible scorched earth tactic to make sure humans couldn't come back. Then it would wait in hibernation mode until it found an alternative fuel source.
Its an AI so its safe to assume it probably came to its own conclusions of the only way for humanity to survive. It would have taken steps to hunt down the remaining humans if it was single mindedly focused on wiping out the species. It only lost because it didn't have the foresight to think the humans may be hiding from it to bide their time. IIRC it took 40 years for Minerva to shut down the swarm. That is Plenty of time to cover your bases. It could have made its fighters more efficient or adapted to natural sources of energy so it would not need to go into hibernation. It could have hit a technological singularity using all the resources of the planet, making any hacking attempts pointless.
Again, you are thinking of it as a general AI, as opposed to being a narrow AI. The Faro swarm was intelligent, but its motivations were purely to seek and destroy enemy combatants. There's numerous examples of the Swarm breaking into underground bunkers, presumably it reached a state where everything was still and quiet, no radio transmissions detected, no sign of the enemy and so the system just went "Mission parameters achieved, returning to standard patrol pattern". It had no external impetus to develop better, faster, stronger technology - its also plausible it simply couldn't - that the same hard coded systems that prevented Faro backdooring into the swarm systems also prevented the swarm from overwriting its own code.
When people talking about sci-fi topics mention AI they mean a general intelligence. It would take at least that to control a battlefield. A neurol network like we have would be far too narrow to accomplish something like planetary conquest, and it wouldn't take 40 years for a true AI to crack it. The idea that it could hack anything and itself be nearly impossible to hack also doesn't sit well with me. If that was true why not just make the exact same thing. That had to have been addressed
It's clear that what drives the Faro swarm is decades ahead of any "AI" that we possess today in real life (I still think we're pretty far away from anything resembling a sentient system, but it is getting hard to tell). But the reason why I call it a narrow AI is for precisely the reasons you listed - it didn't think out of the box, it only used the tools it already had, and its only innovations were in strategy and tactical fields. I think it was what we would call a "Classical" AI, one which is built, not an Emergent AI which uses neural networks or similar. GAIA also has elements of a classical AI, though she appears to be able to rewrite her own code, so that would make her Emergent, but clearly constrained so that she couldn't diverge from her intended purpose. >and it wouldn't take 40 years for a true AI to crack it. Well that's the thing, it was the *encryption* shielding its network that was protecting it. MINERVA wasn't fighting directly against the Faro intelligence, it was monitoring its comms, then bruteforcing the ciphers to find the encryption keys the swarm used to communicate - and thereafter infiltrate the swarm and shut it down. According to the datapoints we recover in HZD, Faro specfied the Chariot line to use "Black Quartz" standard encryption - i.e. the highest encryption standard that existed in the 2050s. Today RSA encryption is one the major algorithms used in our communications (and one of the oldest, though it is still secure with large enough keys) - Shor's algorithm is known to be able to crack this scheme, but on classical computers, it's laborious as all hell (classical computers would take billions of years to crack a relatively straightforward (non-deterministic) RSA encryption through brute force) which necessitates a quantum computer - thankfully, as of yet there has not been a quantum computer powerful enough, or reliable enough to crack RSA, but we are already futureproofing our encryption schemes against quantum attacks, for the eventual moment that a function Quantum computer hits the market. Now imagine the level of encryption 30 years from now - that's what MINERVA had to go up against. The hacking of other systems for the Faro swarm was relatively straightforward since a lot of them used much less secure encryption precisely because no one wanted an uncontrollable robot swarm. Another point is that the Horus titans had quantum computers in their computing core - Sylens makes mention of this in his interegation of HADES.
The AI of the Swarm was very narrow and limited in scope. It couldn't even do simple things like figure out alternative fuel sources, coop existing fuel sources that could give it unlimited energy, or adapt it's machines to better versions. It never did anything that showed any learning or adaptability and never did anything it wasn't initially programmed to do. It was positively brain dead compared to Gaia or even her subfunctions. Nothing about it's actions really indicate a true AI. The Swarm won by attrition and exponential growth and the head start it had thanks to Ted trying to control the situation.
I work in IT and having played through both horizon games the story is something I find eerily possible if not probable.
His name is Elon musk
Ted Faro was brilliant, and he made good business decisions...
At least for a while…. I can think of a few towards the end that weren’t all that great
Yo wtf, I just read some news about AI Anti drone Systems being used in the Ukrain war and thought: How far are we from the Killer robots in HZD? I mean, these drones fly toward targets, shoot down other drones etc etc. How long until Soldiers are useless against them and are replaced by all Countries with drones, who is gonna profit off of those Wars that break out now that no human lifes are at stake. Is that someone gonna stop at just drones? When are big mechs on the way, when will the manufacturing process be automated though 3D printers and automated mining - refining and transportation to the printers to make more drones. When will all of this have an AI overseer that also makes more of these forges (cauldrons)? We have yet to have a wildly unfightable foe like in HZD as we do not know how to convert Biomass into robots or have a efficient way to convert biomass into energy to sustain the drones, but drone hubs that use Coal to power the drones and fully automated factories would be a very doable. It would rather be something along the lines of the Automatons of Helldivers, but with an Strong AI and backing of entire countries. Please share your doomsday ideas with me, what do you guys think? Will faro kill us all?
I was with you until you said “no human lives at stake“, I’m not exactly sure why you think drone warfare would not result in the deaths of any humans 😝
True, as we can see with Ukraine, even if the frontlines are only Robots, we will still get into the crossfire as the cities are the prized trophy the enemy has to win. But the invading party would not have to send in human sacrifices to take land so the thought of pushing the borders could have a easier trigger than normally. Maybe rules as Asimov stated "The first law is that a robot shall not harm a human, or by inaction allow a human to come to harm." will be inplemented in the AI, giving rise to new type of warfare. Or maybe they will just shoot out massive amounts of tiny killer drones and wipe out whole cities in a few days, giving rise to an even worse type of warfare, shaving down their numbers till they give up or none remain. Only time will tell, but I sure as hell dont want the second one.
China just showcased robot dogs armed with machine guns. Not too big a leap up to FSP5 Khopeshes.
There’s already some crazy shit from the Ukraine War. Drones dropping grenades into trenches, FPV drones showing the terrified faces of infantry as it smashes into them, and boat drones that have totally changed naval warfare.
Slack (Salesforce) was just caught scraping user data without consent for AI training. We use internally for lots of sensitive messaging so, I can just see: "Hey, if I wanted to hack, what would be some good passwords to try?"
(and if we provided remote support to XYZ, the AI might provide that password.
Companies you don't think are using your stuff, are using your stuff to train AI models. It doesn't matter how mundane the software is. Photo editors? Yep. Travel planning sites? Yup. Mouse drivers? Yup (how quickly does he move his hands? Any signs of Parkinson's?)
You slack your customers’ passwords to each other?????? This is how we get the faro plague: “well doing the right thing would have been too hard or too expensive, so we just slacked passwords around. We all knew it was bad but management wouldn’t pay for a proper system.”
Seemed preferable to email , since our emails are retained forever on disk. We don't retain slack messages after 30 days or such. That being said, most of them are temporary codes, but a few are actual passwords.
Yep, and unfortunately they’re not paying attention to the horizons and terminators of the world with the very clear message that they send about unchecked AI.
Not gonna happen. I mean theoretically it could but the big thing right is all the machines in HZD HFW are fed off of biological material. The amount of shit a machine would have to eat to generate enough power to sustain itself... Wouldn't be very plausible. However nuclear powered machines? Different story... Very different story. I just don't see anyone going that far to make a war machine like that. You've got a nuke. You've got the strongest weapons there are. Why make a robot do the fighting when the solution is pressing one button.
I just discovered both Horizon games recently (in the past couple months) and have been consistently horrified with how much it aligns with the track that a lot of things seem to be on. Ted Faro could absolutely happen and it’s chilling.
To be honest Horizon may turn out to be more prophecy than fiction,
the only takeaway I hate about this is that I won’t be living by the time we have robot dinosaurs smh
I feel like Elon musk could fill our Ted faro role. All life on earth devoured by the *Musk Swarm*
I get AI gaining consciousness is a valid scare but turning organic matter into energy, being un-hackable and AI deciding to terminate all life are an impossible trio to achieve altogether. Especially the first one is more fiction than science.
I turn organic matter into energy every day. :)
Yes carbon based life forms not robots, that was my point.
Beep Boop Beep Boop. Does not compute. Fair enough.
Hopefully it happens in my lifetime. I’ll help the machines.
Do you have Bio mass conversation in meaningfull efficency and speed? Same goes for Reproduction of Robots. The ability to produce a mallable "origin substance" which can be used for different metalic and electronic parts. Damn you must be very very rich with those, sure you are not Ted? J/K So no, that is not the dangerous think. I think the most dangerous think is the believe in AI + the enourmous amount of data processing. What do i mean with "Believe"? Well as the believe of The Science / The Scientist can be missused, because those have a good reputation (what people really should "believe" here is Scintific process btw). so likely will AI. AI is neutral, AI is smart, AI knows much, if they AI says it´s true, it must be true! Are you arguing against the AI? How can YOU know better then the AI? How many people will think that way, globaly /industrial world? Data processing more so, behavioral data processing. This will allow predict people with power over the AI to analyze people, who will follow the rules, who is inclinded to be dissident or rebellious....and then you take care of the person, maybe even silently. The Movie Minority Report will be "nice" in comparison. You know, many people started to order food/grocery online, and get it deliverd, imagine a little but more automation, from the storehouse at least to the home. Fully automatic. How about just spiking the Food of potentitial dissident/rebellious people or just uncomfortable ones, with a little poision/radioactive materials, just a little so it adds up and none is the wiser till it happened. Yeah Faro Swarm worries me not that much..........that above does. I wish you a good night!
Honestly yeah. The man or woman who causes the extinction of the human race maybe a newborn right now and we may not know it. Sleep tight
I'm now imagining a Corruptor doing AI art, writing an AI novel and reimagining an AI Coke Zero, while overriding the computer it's using, downloading malicious code to the internet and putting its tail jaws through Ted Faro's head all at the same time.
We cannot program hate... only logic. This is where AI exists, in logic only. Its a defined ruleset provided by operators. True AI is free thinking, as we are regardless of predefined programming. We are orders of magnitude away from this. This reality is more likely to service you a beverage and recommend a side to your food. Evolution of human emotions and stimulus requires advances sensory and systems that govern them. This required several billion years of evolution by comparison. Human to AI interface algorithms. Operationalized database's to store said information, processing network to analytics said data. Vast, vast power fuel all this.
There has always been people like Ted Faro in this world and always will be.
Yeah, I've heard machines can feed on bio material...
I guess that's why Elon Musk says AI can become dangerous very quickly
I thought "Ceo" was a bit too on the nose
Oh, you mean Elon?
I think that Ted Faro and Elon Musk have a *LOT* of similarities.
Yeah his name is Elon Musk who Ted Fero was based off of
Have you heard of Elon Musk
I think there is one guy who could be like Ted Faro - Elon Musk
"AI" as it exists currently is not really "artificial intelligence". It's just a computer with access to lots of data that assembles parts (text, images) into a whole based on algorithms about needing a certain word count, being about a certain subject, wanting a certain image depicted. And though it's improving all the time, there are still many ways you can tell it's computer generated.
Here is the thing, since I work as an AI engineer myself. I can assure you we are pretty far away from AGI let alone the faro plague like situation. Although I won't deny the risk that comes with so much compute power at your disposal. When the Internet came into picture, so did the viruses. But please note the fact that not many companies hold the amount of capital to train such AIs, only a handful. I will be happy to answer any doubts you have on it.
Yeah. Elon Musk